View Full Version : What Awesomeness looks like! Update with fixes on page 11!
This is what rolled into my shop on Monday. :stop:
The owner cannot get it to zero and on further review just about NOTHING on the gun was built propertly. The owner bought this (just as you see it) from an established "LE/Mil" FFL dealer just North of me (no I won't give out their name).
I will be doing a tutorial on all the things wrong with the gun in the near future, but until then, guess how much he paid for this setup.
If you do not want to read through the thread and just want to see the fixes, go to page 11!
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/ST_Build.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/ST_Build1.jpg
I am going to guess $2250 is what he paid. Why anyone in there right mind would use a grip pod is beyond me and jesus what is with that tac-light. It's like a whole other rifle in its own right. Is that a knock off aimpoint? Not a cco I have ever seen before.
I'll guess $1500ish.
I think I have an idea who you are talking about.
Is there TWO lights on that?
I am going to guess $2250 is what he paid. Why anyone in there right mind would use a grip pod is beyond me and jesus what is with that tac-light. It's like a whole other rifle in its own right. Is that a knock off aimpoint? Not a cco I have ever seen before.
The optic is a Pro Point (on a fake ARMS #17 mount). There is also a green laser on the other side.
C4
Notice the rubber band holding the tape switch to the grip. The reason why that is there is because the velcro has slid off the tape switch (which is now a sticky mess). The owner said that this is how it was sold to him and they told him that the "sticky" velcro would solidify (at some point). :dirol:
C4
This will be an interesting learning tool.
I'm betting closer to $3,000
Awesome at any price! (not)
Looks like a Tasco red dot on top?? If so, no wonder he can't get it to zero!
That rifle looks like a Tacticoool airsofter's dream, plush with sweet parts by NCStar, UTG, Tasco, other quality tacticool manufacturers :laugh: (not really sure who makes those parts but they look cheap).
I sure hope he didn't pay more than $1,000 for that thing!
I'm wondering what it weighs...:rolleyes:
Breadstick
02-28-12, 11:05
wow.....
Looks like NC star front sight....maybe rear. maybe a NC Star "RDS"?
UTG Freefloat? By the "vents" it looks UTG......
Looks like somebody went shopping @ Cheaper Than Dirt ......
I say about $1250 also.
That flash light......those heat sinks? telescoping lens?
Pressure switch...rubber banded to the VFG?
That's horrid....even by my standards.
EDIT: several post made while I typed......most my ?'s answered
Canonshooter
02-28-12, 11:10
I'm wondering what it weighs...:rolleyes:
+1
My back aches just looking at it.
I'll bet this thread runs at least 3 pages. Oh, and as far as price goes...$1750.
SpookyPistolero
02-28-12, 11:14
Part of my soul just died.
What was the base rifle?
I'd say its time to hit up a gun show, recoup some of the cost, get a 6920.
$2800
I also guess that this thread goes at least 6 pages.
Is there a rifle under that?
And as someone else on this forum once said:
"That looks like it was drug through the cheaper than dirt catalog with a shit magnet attached"
What type of rifle is it anyway? At least tell me it has a good starting point. Wait, nevermind, don't tell me, I don't want to think of all the garbage ruining a good gun.
Oh, and for a guess: $3500 Bob.
I will have to admit that I am not up on all the "cheap" AR parts out there so I am fully sure what is on here.
Knowing what this guy paid, I would said that I am going to have to change how I do business. No more BCM, Noveske, Colt, DD, LMT parts and guns. No more Aimpoints and Surefire products.
I am going stright to cheap crap and double my money!
To add more insult to the story, I advised the owner that he could have a Colt 6920 from me for $965. He looked at his gun for a minute and then back at me and said; "Is that a stock gun?" I replied yes. "Hmmm. I kind of like having the rail, light, laser, optic, etc." :suicide2:
C4
Part of my soul just died.
What was the base rifle?
I'd say its time to hit up a gun show, recoup some of the cost, get a 6920.
Read my reply below yours about a 6920.
It is a 100% parts gun with the BEST PART OF THE GUN BEING THE SPIKES TACTICAL LOWER!! :sarcastic:
C4
It costs a lot to be a wannabe.
I will have to admit that I am not up on all the "cheap" AR parts out there so I am fully sure what is on here.
Knowing what this guy paid, I would said that I am going to have to change how I do business. No more BCM, Noveske, Colt, DD, LMT parts and guns. No more Aimpoints and Surefire products.
I am going stright to cheap crap and double my money!
To add more insult to the story, I advised the owner that he could have a Colt 6920 from me for $965. He looked at his gun for a minute and then back at me and said; "Is that a stock gun?" I replied yes. "Hmmm. I kind of like having the rail, light, laser, optic, etc." :suicide2:
C4
He seriously said that? Wow...
I am reiterating the cheaper than dirt catalog statements.. So what did he pay?
Someone needs to give this guy an internet connection, link to this forum and a how to for google search engine.
It costs a lot to be a wannabe.
The owner is a USA Vet and because of this is the ONLY reason why I offered to assist. If it would have been anyone else, I would said NO to helping with this hot mess.
C4
Read my reply below yours about a 6920.
It is a 100% parts gun with the BEST PART OF THE GUN BEING THE SPIKES TACTICAL LOWER!! :sarcastic:
C4
:suicide:
I am willing to bet he paid around $2500 for that.
The attachment for the rail looks like it weighs a pound my itself.
The owner is a USA Vet and because of this is the ONLY reason why I offered to assist. If it would have been anyone else, I would said NO to helping with this hot mess.
C4
That's a crying shame. Might need to check his discharge papers for bad eyes and poor judgment. ;)
sinlessorrow
02-28-12, 11:36
Read my reply below yours about a 6920.
It is a 100% parts gun with the BEST PART OF THE GUN BEING THE SPIKES TACTICAL LOWER!! :sarcastic:
C4
nothing wrong with a spikes lower. i have one on my gun since my local FFL had a good deal at $45 for a stripped lower.
that said i wouldnt use anything else spikes, but a lower is a lower is a lower
oh yeah my guess is around $2600
Dang, I don't know whether to feel bad at the place that sold that to him or feel bad for him for not knowing any better than to buy it (unless he got it for $200 or so).
...
That's a crying shame. Might need to check his discharge papers for bad eyes. ;)
I don't want to talk bad about the guy since I don't know him but I am going to take a wild guess and bet he is one of those guys who claims stuff he didn't do..
DD214 check time..
Reminds me of one of the squadleaders that was in my plt a while ago who claimed he was sniper qualified and our pltsgt was doing ncoers and seen his erb didn't have it on there and he said he doesn't know what happened and the pltsgt called benning to try and verify and they had no record of him. That and the endless stories of he pulled rpgs out of rucks strapped to the outside of brads and threw them back and he killed the baghdad sniper yada yada..
Anyway back to topic that rifle reminds me of that pic floating around here of a ar with a 100 things mounted on it.
nothing wrong with a spikes lower. i have one on my gun since my local FFL had a good deal at $45 for a stripped lower.
that said i wouldnt use anything else spikes, but a lower is a lower is a lower
oh yeah my guess is around $2600
I personally have no issues with a ST lower (especially if you got a deal on it), but when it is the BEST PART of your gun, you have a problem IMHO.
C4
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-28-12, 11:44
I dont think he wasted his money at all. The guy clearly doesnt get out and shoot more than maybe 50rds a month, and those are shot either on the 25yd line at the indoor range or at dirt clods 15 feet away from the back 9 in the woods. He bought it to look cool to his buddies, and when he brings it out of the safe they "ooo" and "ahhh", and his ego gets a boost that he never got from some other facet of his life. This gun will never be used in a class, never driven hard at the range, never will it accompany him on patrol, and he most likely wouldnt even grab it in the case of a home invasion because his big bad Taurus 1911 is a .45ACP and not some sissy overpowered .22.
To guys like him, a $500 aimpoint costs just too much because it does the same as a $75 NCSTAR Cool Scope. To him, a Surefire is just an overpriced mag light. To him, all AR's are made equal so why should he shell out more for Colt. To him, Magpul is the same plastic as CAA, so why shell out anymore, and he would just be a "fanboi" if he did, and **** those fanboys. And yet, guys like him are just too daft to see that the cool new AR-Shitteen they bought for $2800 is far more than the price of:
Colt 6920
Magpul MOE Furniture
IWC Surefire G2 mount and light
Aimpoint PRO
BFG VCAS Sling
10 GI Mags with MP followers
1000rds of ammo
And a basic class
When I saw the title of the thread and that it was posted by Grant, it got my hopes up that he was going to have a pic of a pallet full of Colt SCW's for sale, or something like that. Then I kept reading, saw the pics, and I'm going to sadly guess $1995. :cray:
sinlessorrow
02-28-12, 11:45
I personally have no issues with a ST lower (especially if you got a deal on it), but when it is the BEST PART of your gun, you have a problem IMHO.
C4
thats a very good point lol.
its a shame that a legit dealer would actually sell crap like that.
I'll guess he paid $1999 (what a deal!!!) The setup reminds me a lot of this guy who was in my Vickers class. By the time this pic was taken, he had already taken 3 things off his rifle because they broke. To make matters worse, he had SF plates and stickers all over his truck. I don't know if he really was or not, but there are a lot of mil guys that simply don't know quality gear.
Good on you for helping out a vet, Grant!
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/ATEUP.jpg
Was it closer to $1500, $2000, or $2500? I can't believe how tactical it looks. ;)
I can't believe how tacticool it looks. ;)
Fixed. Dude, there's a laser, light AND a red dot on it.
Grant, is it a place in Canton?
Fixed. Dude, there's a laser, light AND a red dot on it.
Grant, is it a place in Canton?
Canton/Akron area I believe.
C4
Grant I will say $1800.00 Any picks on the BCG?
So as I am looking at this piece of crap, in walks a local LE customer and his son. Both of them instantly see it and comment on how cool it looks. :alcoholic:
I was wondering how anyone could find this thing appealing, but now I know that a lot of people (80 percenters) like all this crap strapped to a gun and have no idea what quality is and isn't.
As I said, I am in the wrong part of the AR business I think.
C4
I'll guess he paid $1999 (what a deal!!!) The setup reminds me a lot of this guy who was in my Vickers class. By the time this pic was taken, he had already taken 3 things off his rifle because they broke. To make matters worse, he had SF plates and stickers all over his truck. I don't know if he really was or not, but there are a lot of mil guys that simply don't know quality gear.
Good on you for helping out a vet, Grant!
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/ATEUP.jpg
I bet he was attached to an sf unit long enough to get orders to wear the patch and afterwards claimed he was sf..
Grant I will say $1800.00 Any picks on the BCG?
I will do a part by part review later on. Right now, I have to get all the low quality guns, gun parts and parts shipped out to my waiting customers.
C4
I will have to admit that I am not up on all the "cheap" AR parts out there so I am fully sure what is on here.
Knowing what this guy paid, I would said that I am going to have to change how I do business. No more BCM, Noveske, Colt, DD, LMT parts and guns. No more Aimpoints and Surefire products.
I am going stright to cheap crap and double my money!
To add more insult to the story, I advised the owner that he could have a Colt 6920 from me for $965. He looked at his gun for a minute and then back at me and said; "Is that a stock gun?" I replied yes. "Hmmm. I kind of like having the rail, light, laser, optic, etc." :suicide2:
C4
LOL. That is awesome. Ok, I think he paid $2000.00.
sinlessorrow
02-28-12, 11:59
So as I am looking at this piece of crap, in walks a local LE customer and his son. Both of them instantly see it and comment on how cool it looks. :alcoholic:
I was wondering how anyone could find this thing appealing, but now I know that a lot of people (80 percenters) like all this crap strapped to a gun and have no idea what quality is and isn't.
As I said, I am in the wrong part of the AR business I think.
C4
i'm telling you crap sells in the gun world
Grant caters to the 1% of gun owners
You could probably make a lot more money scamming people with shoddy products.
Maybe you need to slap a Colt 6920 on the wall with lasers, lights, optics and grips and just double the MSRP to see if anyone bites. That way at least they're still getting quality.
Nothing wrong with wanting a Light, optic, rail and even a laser on an AR. But at least buy quality. :jester:
At least the ARs at the local gunstore I was at weren't quite that bad. Lot of guys looking at the ARs and from the gunstore BS they were absorbing they probably would of bought one of those rifles. If you don't know better it looks just as good as any other one out there.
I just vomited all over my computer. My guess is that this jack ass paid about 2200.00.
mallowpufft
02-28-12, 12:12
I'm gonna guess between 1725-2100. My local "black rifle" shop has an A2 style Bushy for 1250 right now.
An LWRC for 2100 and a KAC for 1700
lifebreath
02-28-12, 12:14
That makes the the Del Ton I had look downright top tier!
I'll guess $2150
I just vomited all over my computer. My guess is that this jack ass paid about 2200.00.
Mauser KAR98K
02-28-12, 12:24
I'm going to Price is Right route and bet $1. I might win a box of popcorn, which would be more useful in farts than that tacticool crap.
I'm so glad I found this forum.
If we guess right do we “win” it? If so I think I will just not guess.
Ignoring my advice, a friend of mine bought a red dot just like that one. He never could get it to zero.
scoutfsu99
02-28-12, 12:33
I will do a part by part review later on. Right now, I have to get all the low quality guns, gun parts and parts shipped out to my waiting customers.
C4
Grant,
How about buying it from him? Then use the shit out of the gun and accessories and document when they break. Then you can put it on your wall with tags so people can check it out. Maybe then they'll get the point.
Like:
ProPoint - survived 73 rounds
green laser - survived 101 rounds
Tac Light - survived 38 rounds
Then compare them to legit options
AimPoint - 11320 rounds and counting
SureFire - 7123 and counting
etc
Take a picture of the staking and compare it to a picture of staking done right, etc. Maybe then some learning will occur.
Tell us Grant.. What does something like this go for?
Also.. No Grenade/Flare launcher??? Really??? :)
1,000 - 1,800 area
At least the lower is a Spikes. Goodness gracious.
... hey, look,
It was put together by Jawas from old droid parts. :haha:
http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FMF/AIIC/G5KP851I/FMFAIICG5KP851I.MEDIUM.jpg
I hope it works out...
So....how much did he pay?
1,000 - 1,800 area
At least the lower is a Spikes. Goodness gracious.
... hey, look,
It was put together by Jawas from old droid parts. :haha:
http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FMF/AIIC/G5KP851I/FMFAIICG5KP851I.MEDIUM.jpg
I hope it works out...
No reason to insult the Jawas.
Grant,
How about buying it from him? Then use the shit out of the gun and accessories and document when they break. Then you can put it on your wall with tags so people can check it out. Maybe then they'll get the point.
Like:
ProPoint - survived 73 rounds
green laser - survived 101 rounds
Tac Light - survived 38 rounds
Then compare them to legit options
AimPoint - 11320 rounds and counting
SureFire - 7123 and counting
etc
Take a picture of the staking and compare it to a picture of staking done right, etc. Maybe then some learning will occur.
I cannot afford to pay the guy what he paid for it.
C4
Check out this link for better pictures of the "SF" guy.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81150
There's a fair amount of SF fakes out there, too. I'm just sayin'.
No reason to insult the Jawas.
I didn't mean it! I was just.. kidding. :fie:
scoutfsu99
02-28-12, 12:55
Check out this link for better pictures of the "SF" guy.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=81150
This guy has been to quite a few classes. I would be very surprised if he were a fake, he hadn't been called out by legit dudes by now.
Bad Medicine
02-28-12, 12:57
Well I read every post on this thread, I have to say I don't believe in poking fun at people especially if you want that person to learn anything. This was a pretty interesting thread though, didn't learn much, still funny though. I am sure that Grant will help teach this guy about quality vs quantity.
SpookyPistolero
02-28-12, 13:05
Honestly, my biggest gripe is with the douche "le/mil" dealer that put this together and sold it. Imagine the soullessness it takes to knowingly put this kind of crap into the hands of someone who might actually NEED it. Its hard to judge the purchaser harshly, because sometimes you don't know what you don't know.
Upon reviewing the photos, I'm guessing $153.
That is really unfortunate.
How are you going to get it to zero with a cheap optic. Sounds like an easy fix that will require removal of said cheap optic.
Price increase exponentially depending on quality optic installed.
SomeOtherGuy
02-28-12, 13:48
If only it had an external piston it could have been a true quality piece.
It's hard to choose whether the best feature is having two lights or having a $30 red dot.
Grant, you may not have the margins of the CTD crowd, but at least you don't have a lot of competition!
SomeOtherGuy
02-28-12, 13:50
Price increase exponentially depending on quality optic installed.
Would you laugh/cry more or less if this ... ummm... thing, had a genuine ACOG or M3 attached instead?
I'm also curious about the fluted barrel with a style of gas block I don't recognize. Is NCStar doing gas blocks now?
I'm gonna guess $2500.
The sad thing is that there are plenty of people out there who just don't know. And they trust the people at the gun counters to be knowledgable and honest. Knowledgable being the least likely. There's a guy at my agency who has a rifle similar to this. He got lucky and found the LMT websight and bought a complete gun from them. But then threw on every piece of shit accessory he could find. He doesn't run it hard so nothing has broken yet, and got lucky that his Tasco red dot from CTD actually zero'd in his UTG mount. So he believes he's done it right and won't even entertain a conversation about it.
Those of us that are interested enough to do research are somewhat lucky that this site (and one or two others) exist so we can learn from knowledgable people. There are a lot more abortions for guns out there than you might think.
Looking at the pic, I don't think you could put a price on that kind of workmanship and quality...
Really.
You couldn't.
I'm gonna be sick.
Shocked the LE/MIL dealer couldn't find a bigger light
Well I read every post on this thread, I have to say I don't believe in poking fun at people especially if you want that person to learn anything. This was a pretty interesting thread though, didn't learn much, still funny though. I am sure that Grant will help teach this guy about quality vs quantity.
When the customer was in the shop, he was treated with respect and when asked what was wrong with his gun, we advised him on what steps needed to be taken and why.
This thread WILL BE very educational when I detail all the incorrect things that were done to it. That way, new shooters looking at this thread will be able to learn from it and not make the same mistakes.
C4
How are you going to get it to zero with a cheap optic. Sounds like an easy fix that will require removal of said cheap optic.
Price increase exponentially depending on quality optic installed.
Right now, the optic is sitting on a FAKE ARMS #17 (loose). At this point, I am not sure if the screws have bottomed out and cannot be tightened any more they just weren't loctited and need tightened.
After I figure out the above, I will come up with some sort of a solution to make it work (or give ideas to the owner on how to fix stupid).
C4
Bad Medicine
02-28-12, 14:14
When the customer was in the shop, he was treated with respect and when asked what was wrong with his gun, we advised him on what steps needed to be taken and why.
This thread WILL BE very educational when I detail all the incorrect things that were done to it. That way, new shooters looking at this thread will be able to learn from it and not make the same mistakes.
C4
Grant, my comments were not sarcastic nor directed at you, I am sure you will do everything you can to make this an educational expirience for all of us.
Grant,
You are an optimist. There are plenty who will read all the shortcomings and claim that you are simply picking on his choice.
Then you will be branded as an "elitist" again.
When the customer was in the shop, he was treated with respect and when asked what was wrong with his gun, we advised him on what steps needed to be taken and why.
This thread WILL BE very educational when I detail all the incorrect things that were done to it. That way, new shooters looking at this thread will be able to learn from it and not make the same mistakes.
C4
I think Grant is hinting that everyone will be shocked when we learn what this cost.
I am guessing $1900 for the base gun (given the super-cool fluted barrel, rail, etc.) plus another $1000 bucks for all of the extra nice things attached to it.
$2900 total is my guess.
Which extra sweet ST lower is it? Pirate, zombie, or just the phallic spider?
Grant your a better man then most for even taking the time to figure that cluster F*^$ out. Living in MA I have seen some pretty ridiculous prices for AR's so I am gonna say maybe over $3000. The day I was in a local gun shop and a customer walked in and actually asked for a BCM complete rifle and was told " We have Stag's and RRA's that are just as good and that is why we do not stock BCM" :confused: I couldn't resist making a comment. Let's just say I probably will never go back as the owner was very upset. Spoke to the customer in the parking lot and he knew enough to not buy anything there. The worst part is they actually sell LMT's, S&W and Colt's from time to time and he compared BCM to Stag & RRA WTF... :neo:
I am going to take a stab in the dark.
1. I think there is an issue with that front and rear sight combo.
2. I wouldn't be surprised if the barrel and or rail is loose.
3. The castle nut isn't staked.
4. Probably doesn't have the correct feedramps and or barrel extension combination.
captdreifus
02-28-12, 15:02
I too, am betting on $3000.00:thank_you2:
Canton/Akron area I believe.
C4
Elite Tactical Supply???
Geez Grant, I'm disappointed. Just left your website and could not find a single product from that rifle listed for sale. What's with that? If you plan on staying in business in the long run, I suggest you ditch those overpriced,low profit margin products from DD,Colt,Aimpoint,Troy,LMT, etc. Northstar,UTG,Tapco, FakeArms,Olympic, PTS, etc. will cost you less and you'll be able to double if not triple your profit margin. Until I see a change in your business model/practice, hint:"the customer is always right", I will not be doing anymore future business with a reputable company such as yours. Really, the nerve of some of you vendors! :sarcastic: Oh, almost forgot, the poor soul forked over $3500!
That rifle might make a good conversation piece for some teenage Call Of Duty fanatics who know nothing about firearms. Too bad the owner of it will never get back what he put into it.
Odie Dozer
02-28-12, 15:39
With all that junk on the upper, I'm surprised he's still got the basic stock and grip on there. Looks like a front heavy sob.
I'm going to guess cost to be about $2700.
steelonsteel
02-28-12, 15:42
"hey guys - look! It's the entire Cheaper than dirt UTG section!"
My guess; $4K for a "custom Tactical" build.
:suicide:
I will admit I dont own a rifle I would be proud of but this cluster f@#$ is some kind of AR abomination. WOW. I just can't say enough of how wrong this thing is at least all my parts on my AR are from one manufacturer. I would say he sold his soul to the devil for it. Cause any amount of money he spent on it wasn't worth it.
Oh and 4500.:cray:
Man. It's really sad a dealer would take total advantage of somebody who doesn't know any better. When you reveal what he paid, I won't be laughing, just all the more upset.
I really wish you would say who he bought it from.
Is it even 922(r) compliant? :haha: I don't care who you are that's funny. You're are a kind man for taking on this project, I just hope all of that tacticoolness doesn't rub off on you.
P.S. this looks like a gun that The Gun Room in Portland, Or would sell...well if they sold AR's that is. They've got a nice selection of Winchesters, Brownings, etc...all under $3000 lol.
NoveskeFan
02-28-12, 15:51
The dealer must have saw that guy coming from a mile away:secret: "This here AR was used by the member of Seal Team 6 that took out Osama.":laugh:
$2199.99
Is that a boom mic on it ?
This should be funny:http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=677669
Betting he paid close to $2K as it's not uncommon to hear people brag about $600 complete AR's if you shop around correctly ( "correctly" being a relative term here). Add the additional hardware and a pretty good mark up on everything including "installation" and you have a ~$2,000 rifle.
Crap sells in every industry and is part of the world we live in...
Taking time to educate someone is a great act of kindness and shouldn't be taken lightly. ;)
7.62WildBill
02-28-12, 16:18
That looks like about $2,999 of tacticoolishness to me...:cray:
Is that a boom mic on it ?
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
That thing makes me want to vomit. The rear sight has to be a knock off. I don't even want to know what he paid for the thing, I'm going to guess $3099.99...
The_War_Wagon
02-28-12, 16:19
It costs a lot to be a wannabe.
:haha:
I just vomited all over my computer. My guess is that this jack ass paid about 2200.00.
Damn if you didn't beat me to it. The FIRST amount that came to my mind was $2,250 - mainly because I see junk like this at every Pittsburgh area gun show, and that's just about the going price!
Accounting for OH inflation ;), I might guess as high as $2,450.
Is that a boom mic on it ?
I'm glad I'm switching to ice water from soft drinks these days - my computer screen is still salvageable at this point, and my nose doesn't burn! :lol:
bsmith_shoot
02-28-12, 16:29
Im gonna say around $2700, sadly. I hate to see good people done wrong, but im glad to see good people help out needy people. Thanks Grant, the Lord remembers charity my friend.
Brandon
:haha:
Damn if you didn't beat me to it. The FIRST amount that came to my mind was $2,250 - mainly because I see junk like this at every Pittsburgh area gun show, and that's just about the going price!
Accounting for OH inflation ;), I might guess as high as $2,450.
I'm glad I'm switching to ice water from soft drinks these days - my computer screen is still salvageable at this point, and my nose doesn't burn! :lol:
No doubt. The nice lady with the 16 tables of Mako/UTG/NC Star stuff seems to be everywhere and the crowd around them is staggering.
Betting he paid close to $2K as it's not uncommon to hear people brag about $600 complete AR's if you shop around correctly ( "correctly" being a relative term here). Add the additional hardware and a pretty good mark up on everything including "installation" and you have a ~$2,000 rifle.
Crap sells in every industry and is part of the world we live in...
Taking time to educate someone is a great act of kindness and shouldn't be taken lightly. ;)
Hey, PSA puts out some solid stuff you can have for close to 600, if you put it together yourself...
99 cents! What do I win? :jester:
I'm not a believer of "less is more" since sometimes less is just, well, less, when the absence of a piece of gear means reduced capabilities.
In this case though, less junk would definitely bring more to the weapon.
Mauser KAR98K
02-28-12, 16:47
Grant, you should explain to him what low speed, high drag is and point to his weapon.
I am surprised at how many people here act like this is uncommon. Whenever I am unfortunate enough to visit a local gun store, this crap is usually what is selling. Of course, it doesn't just apply to rifles; it goes for all types of guns. Most stores sell more Taurus and other sub-standard pistols than quality ones. And you cannot swing a dead cat without hitting a Serpa out here; I digress.
Despite this being the age of the internet, it has not become the age of the informed consumer.
This should be funny:http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=677669
I can’t believe someone would actually claim ownership of that thing, even as a joke.
I can't wait to hear more about this. I'm going to guess around $2,600.
I feel bad for the guy, I was told to get a stag or RRA prior to coming to this forum to educate myself. I know everyone is different but I would probably say who the shop was that sold him the overpriced trash. I wouldn't bash them but just to let people know how bad they are ripping people off buy selling this type of gun to someone just to make a buck. But I don't judge people so if OP doesn't feel that is right I respect that 100%.
Hey, PSA puts out some solid stuff you can have for close to 600, if you put it together yourself...
It was not intended as a shot towards any brand; however, it is not uncommon to hear your average "tacticool" AR builder to brag about spending ~$600 on something that's "just as reliable as your over priced pony".
It's that "know it all" mentality that's the problem.
It’s hard to tell but it looks like the crush washer was but on backwards.
sinlessorrow
02-28-12, 17:27
I am surprised at how many people here act like this is uncommon. Whenever I am unfortunate enough to visit a local gun store, this crap is usually what is selling. Of course, it doesn't just apply to rifles; it goes for all types of guns. Most stores sell more Taurus and other sub-standard pistols than quality ones. And you cannot swing a dead cat without hitting a Serpa out here; I digress.
Despite this being the age of the internet, it has not become the age of the informed consumer.
luckily the owner of my local gun store refuses to sell crap
It was not intended as a shot towards any brand; however, it is not uncommon to hear your average "tacticool" AR builder to brag about spending ~$600 on something that's "just as reliable as your over priced pony".
It's that "know it all" mentality that's the problem.
I know exactly what you mean, I was just being a sarcastic bastard. And I'm all about shots at all sorts of different brands. I don't mind telling you your rifle is shit. :D
This is what rolled into my shop on Monday. :stop:
The owner cannot get it to zero and on further review just about NOTHING on the gun was built propertly. The owner bought this (just as you see it) from an established "LE/Mil" FFL dealer just North of me (no I won't give out their name).
I will be doing a tutorial on all the things wrong with the gun in the near future, but until then, guess how much he paid for this setup.
C4
Holy Shit, has Red Jacket Firearms set up shop nearby?
I thought they were south of you,,,
I know exactly what you mean, I was just being a sarcastic bastard. And I'm all about shots at all sorts of different brands. I don't mind telling you your rifle is shit. :D
No worries.
So. Have you given your deposit for the group buy? I hear Grant is taking it apart to duplicate it and M4Carbine has dibs.
All jokes aside. The gentleman who bought the rifle was sold an image of a cool rifle and that's what he wants. Sadly he just wasn't educated enough to buy quality or experienced enough to even warrant the parts in the first place.
I've bought my fair share of crap before replacing them with worth while things. Some of us only learn the hard way. :)
SpaceWrangler
02-28-12, 17:37
Yay, six pages and still going! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Stretch67/banana.gif
did someone already figure out the rear sight? if not it looks like an NcStar
http://www.amazon.com/NcStar-AR15-Detachable-Rear-Sight/dp/B0030HS4UI
so theres one piece down.
My guess is $1,799.99. I bet the red dot is so shitty that it is impossible to zero. Is that a 50,000 lumen special forces tactical flashlight?:D
Guessing close to 2k as well
Yay, six pages and still going! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Stretch67/banana.gif
111 replies.......4400 views in 7hrs. making fun of some dude's shitty rifle is nothing short of amazing, and of all places on M4C:rolleyes:
Might as well nominate it for a sticky.
Heavy Metal
02-28-12, 18:05
Right now, the optic is sitting on a FAKE ARMS #17 (loose). At this point, I am not sure if the screws have bottomed out and cannot be tightened any more they just weren't loctited and need tightened.
After I figure out the above, I will come up with some sort of a solution to make it work (or give ideas to the owner on how to fix stupid).
C4
Fake ARMS mount? That is like a Shit Sandwich with a side order of Shit Fires! EPIC FAIL!!!
I recognize that gun. I one just like it everytime I go to the range and those people make me nervous.
A local shop by me sells a metric done of shit-tastic crap and I always say I understand why because that's what the people want and spend money on.
Good on you Grant for having pride and selling quality.
As far as a guess on how much that was ?? I don't give a shit. The answer is too much.
I am still wondering why Grant would not outfit a Colt with all those cool gadgets. :D How much does it weigh? I am betting he paid around $2400 for it.
My God!
I would have had a hard time not throwing that thing right into an industrial scrap metal shredder... Kudos to you for taking the time to educate this person, in my line of work when I come across an ignorant person I have to move on.
Before I visited this wonderful forum and learned from you guys I bought a bushmaster.
I wish that someone would have educated me or pointed me in the right direction back then.
The worst part is that he was willing to spend a good chunk of change on a rifle. The real tragedy is what he could have done with that $2k if he educated himself about this platform or was steered in the right direction.
luckily the owner of my local gun store refuses to sell crap
It's to bad there aren't more places like that, around my area they really preach and push junk. People buy it because that is what the gun store is recommending. I think you can split the blame between the buyer and the seller. Before I can buy anything I have to research it, over and over and over, hell it's how I found his site. I always want the highest quality I can find, and if it's out of my budget then I wait. It's also to bad all these gun shops are selling and promoting crap, call me simple minded but I believe in honesty and quality, to many people just want your dollar. I'm sure the OP spent good money, with the right info his situation could have been a lot better.
deadlyfire
02-28-12, 18:26
this thread is popular because people can't help but stare at car/train wrecks.
PS: Just saw the link of "Josh" flaunting his rifle when someone dropped the M4C link.
111 replies.......4400 views in 7hrs. making fun of some dude's shitty rifle is nothing short of amazing, and of all places on M4C:rolleyes:
Might as well nominate it for a sticky.
As I started to read this, I thought it was going to be one of those MasterCard Priceless jokes like...
1. Shitty AR15 - $650
2. Chinese knock off accessories - $500
3. Being a tacticool badass and showing off to your air soft buddies - Priceless
The FIRST amount that came to my mind was $2,250 - mainly because I see junk like this at every Pittsburgh area gun show, and that's just about the going price!
I think that one vendor at Monroeville has the exact same setup. The booth in back right corner with all of the $100 4-20x200 optics and lasers...
Poor guy, so how much did he pay for it?
I don't know if he really was or not, but there are a lot of mil guys that simply don't know quality gear.
It really boils down to a lot of military guys don't know about all the Chinese crap that is out there, how much real equipment costs, and most importantly what to avoid.
;)
I agree with what others have said, I don't know what is more aggravating, the guy getting duped and over paying for a POS or the sleezy gun store schmuck who pushed that POS on him for some ridiculous price.
C4IGrant, thanks for taking the time to try to help this guy and for being one of those hard to find retailers who actually give a shit about their customers and try to steer them in the right direction rather than try to make a quick buck off of them with cheap crap.
It really boils down to a lot of military guys don't know about all the Chinese crap that is out there, how much real equipment costs, and most importantly what to avoid.
;)
I agree, A lot of crap like Grip pods are made out to be awesome pieces of gear. I never understood with most guys using it right up against the magwell, how useful is the bipod at that point anymore.
Im sure there are more Non Mil out there that make more gear choice mistakes. A lot of MIL guys want what they had... A colt with a KAC rail and an ACOG. There are worse gear choices out there.
Suwannee Tim
02-28-12, 18:54
I like that bipod. One of these days I'm going to get me a bipod. And the laser too. One of these days..... And the light. One day I'm going to get me a light. One day when I've got enough guns and ammo.
I agree with what others have said, I don't know what is more aggravating, the guy getting duped and over paying for a POS or the sleezy gun store schmuck who pushed that POS on him for some ridiculous price.
To a point.
The other guy is just making a living as well. Hes a salesman. Selling turds as gold since the beginning of time. The consumer should of done more research before laying out a large sum of cash. I for one do not buy anything without taking the time and investigating.
Anyone ever sell a used car? No one is going to tell a potential buyer that what they have to offer is a piece of shit.
deadlyfire
02-28-12, 18:56
It really boils down to a lot of military guys don't know about all the Chinese crap that is out there, how much real equipment costs, and most importantly what to avoid.
;)
It drove me crazy every time I'd see a condor vendor on base selling plate carriers and pouches.
It drove me crazy every time I'd see a condor vendor on base selling plate carriers and pouches.
Ohh you mean that garbage place called p-o? The worse part is the soldiers who fall for that shitty gear because it is cheap and brag about it and 2 weeks later their acu kit is now purple and stand out even more. Everytime I tried to steer other soldiers in the right direction for gear I'd get called a gear queer and shrug it off. Meanwhile they are the ones running around with digi purple mag pouches and hydration carriers on patrol in iraq.. What happened to looking professional? All that from infantry just makes it worse.
bullittmcqueen
02-28-12, 19:18
The only redeeming factor in those pics are the BCM boxes in the background. 10 bucks says the poor owner of this POS has no idea what BCM is anyways.
I say $2500. Sad, you could have 2.5 colts for that.
nice rifle...is that a toilet plunger hanging on the right side of the rail?
I say quality like that must have set that dude back $2200.
Bigkrackers
02-28-12, 19:40
So, excuse my ignorance, but couldn't this guy take the gun back? It sounds like he just bought it and has shot it very little, but enough to know something is wrong.
I do have some pity for this guy but it sounds like he just wants the cool factor and is not very interested in quality. I've been there before myself with firearms and luckily I snapped out of it but if I had more money back then I would have been taken for a long ride.
It makes you sick to your stomach but some lessons are expensive.
JBecker 72
02-28-12, 20:01
$1 Bob! :D
I'll bet she would come closer to getting on target, if those two ?? sights were on the same plane, that front sight looks like it is for the rail, not the GB.
IG, has the best start on what could be wrong with it.
Remind him about "KISS". Simple can be better, especially if you don't have a clue what the shit on your weapon is for.
dudley2112
02-28-12, 20:10
you guys think you have it bad, just be glad you dont get norinco Ar15s. Heard a guy recenylu saying a norc Ar with a knock off of a UTG rail ( ya didnt know that was possible either), some Krylon and a tapco fore grip make for a rifle equal in quality to a colt. This isnt a rare occurrence either.
Moose-Knuckle
02-28-12, 20:19
:Chef's dad's voice:
"About tree fity"
This is why M4C is the ONLY gun forum I frequent anymore.
The buyer of that firearm obviously DID NOT do any research. Why people make big purchases without conducting any type research on the subject matter is beyond comprehension. Be it a washer/dryer, new car, house, etc. . .
"A fool and his money shall soon part" . . .
No comments. I just want to read about the rifle and the fixes.
I'll guess he paid $1999 (what a deal!!!) The setup reminds me a lot of this guy who was in my Vickers class. By the time this pic was taken, he had already taken 3 things off his rifle because they broke. To make matters worse, he had SF plates and stickers all over his truck. I don't know if he really was or not, but there are a lot of mil guys that simply don't know quality gear.
Good on you for helping out a vet, Grant!
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/ATEUP.jpg
Is that guy's name Robert Wilson?
To a point.
The other guy is just making a living as well. Hes a salesman. Selling turds as gold since the beginning of time. The consumer should of done more research before laying out a large sum of cash. I for one do not buy anything without taking the time and investigating.
Anyone ever sell a used car? No one is going to tell a potential buyer that what they have to offer is a piece of shit.
Point taken,
Although I have seen the difference between a retailer who stocks and sells the whole spectrum of gear/guns/equipment etc from top tier gear, all the way down to Uncle Mikes level crap. However they still take the time to try to point people in the right direction for what their actual needs are. But if a customer is on a super tight budget or is deadset on what they want, the cheaper option is still there.
Vs the retailer who like I said, goes by total profit over customer and goes straight for the whole. "You need this tacticool $1,000+ Bushmaster/Olympic its just as good as a Colt and $200 cheaper! Ill even throw in a cool Pro-point red dot at reduced price." nonsense
Holy Shit, has Red Jacket Firearms set up shop nearby?
I thought they were south of you,,,
I was hoping someone would bring up Red Jacket. :agree:
Why people make big purchases without conducting any type research on the subject matter is beyond comprehension. Be it a washer/dryer, new car, house, etc. . .
"A fool and his money shall soon part" . . .
I research just about everything before money ever leaves my wallet. I can't figure it out either.
pruitt0212
02-28-12, 20:41
I hate to be an asshole and one-up you, but I actually saw this sweet little piece of awesomeness once. Yes, it really is someones gun that has been set up like this. The guy holding it is NOT the owner.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z128/Pruitt0212/577-2.jpg
... is that real life? :blink:
ScottFarkus
02-28-12, 20:52
I'm in for $2249. We have a new guy at my shop and his rifle is pretty close to this level of awesomeness. I immediately directed him to this site.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
pruitt0212
02-28-12, 20:52
... is that real life? :blink:
Sadly, yes. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. I was like "whoa, that is too awesome to NOT take a picture of."
I hate to be an asshole and one-up you, but I actually saw this sweet little piece of awesomeness once. Yes, it really is someones gun that has been set up like this.
[IMGhttp://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z128/Pruitt0212/577-2.jpg[/IMG]
Come on, there's no way that's real.
........To add more insult to the story, I advised the owner that he could have a Colt 6920 from me for $965. He looked at his gun for a minute and then back at me and said; "Is that a stock gun?" I replied yes. "Hmmm. I kind of like having the rail, light, laser, optic, etc." :suicide2:
C4
Well, you can lead a horse to water....
If we guess right do we “win” it? If so I think I will just not guess.
Ignoring my advice, a friend of mine bought a red dot just like that one. He never could get it to zero.
Ditto. Had one of those Chicom Eotech knockoffs, and it would'nt zero either- the pukey part is I pissed away a few hundred (yes. :mad:) rounds before I figured out it was the sight....
But I consider those wasted rounds my entry fee- cuz I was almost this guy too, and if it hadn't been for that awful sight I never would have given it all a second thought.
Still have the grip-pod to prove it too.
BTW, I'm in for $2000 even- I'm going to bet he "got a deal".....
But I really want to hear the review/ rundown of this whole thing.
pruitt0212
02-28-12, 21:05
Come on, there's no way that's real.
I swear on my first born child. I thought at first the guy was just f'in with me, but no sir. This was honest to god his rifle and he was mighty proud of it. Best part is, he said his only complaint about the rifle was that he couldn't get it to sight in properly. I learned along time ago to pick my battles so I let this one go.
I'm probably the least knowledgeable person on this entire board by a factor of 1000 (maybe more) . . . and that rifle looks ridiculous to me. Glad I listened to the good folks here before I took the leap on my 1st purchase!
:D
Looking forward to the write-up so I can learn some more!
Grant,
You are an optimist. There are plenty who will read all the shortcomings and claim that you are simply picking on his choice.
Then you will be branded as an "elitist" again.
I know. I can never win.
I am almost of the opinion that I could give away bars of Gold and people would find fault.
C4
I know. I can never win.
I am almost of the opinions that I could give away bars of Gold and people would find fault.
C4
Come on, how much did he pay?
I know. I can never win.
I am almost of the opinions that I could give away bars of Gold and people would find fault.
C4
My address is in your ordering system. I promise if you send me a gold bar I would not find fault.
Come on, how much did he pay?
Yes, inquiring minds want to know.
Man. It's really sad a dealer would take total advantage of somebody who doesn't know any better. When you reveal what he paid, I won't be laughing, just all the more upset.
I really wish you would say who he bought it from.
You assume that the dealer knows any better either (in regards to what is quality and what isn't). Most of my fellow dealers are clueless.
Not only do my fellow dealers not know anything about what makes a quality AR, they never attend any firearms training (as they already know everything). In fact, I think I can count on one hand the number of dealers I have seen at a training class.
C4
pleaforwar
02-28-12, 21:17
N/M.....
I know. I can never win.
I am almost of the opinions that I could give away bars of Gold and people would find fault.
C4
Gold bars are heavy and who wants to tote around that much weight? :suicide:
pruitt0212
02-28-12, 21:21
N/M.....
Oh, I guess nevermind.
I am surprised at how many people here act like this is uncommon. Whenever I am unfortunate enough to visit a local gun store, this crap is usually what is selling. Of course, it doesn't just apply to rifles; it goes for all types of guns. Most stores sell more Taurus and other sub-standard pistols than quality ones. And you cannot swing a dead cat without hitting a Serpa out here; I digress.
Despite this being the age of the internet, it has not become the age of the informed consumer.
Correct you are.
I must get a call a day asking if I sell UTG, Taurus, DPMS, etc, etc.
So far, everyone that has walked into my store this week has commented that it "looked" cool. So I must be missing the boat and could be making a lot more money (if I am just willing to sell my soul).
C4
I hate to be an asshole and one-up you, but I actually saw this sweet little piece of awesomeness once. Yes, it really is someones gun that has been set up like this. The guy holding it is NOT the owner.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z128/Pruitt0212/577-2.jpg
looks like tacticool Jenga! Steady.... Steady.. let's go higher.. one more level.. steady....
pleaforwar
02-28-12, 21:25
True stroke of fortune that the guy took the rifle into your shop Grant. Hopefully the customer can realize your offerings are gold compared to the shit he brought in.
And for those questioning whether or not the dude was SF, I learned a long time ago that questioning someones .mil history online, behind an anonymous screen, is bogus unless you have absolute proof. Calling him out on a forum where he isn't present to defend himself instead of in person is Busch league, IMO.
Cheers,
Dan
Fake ARMS mount? That is like a Shit Sandwich with a side order of Shit Fires! EPIC FAIL!!!
Right. As if an ARMS mount isn't bad enough, this is a Chinese clone of it.
I started taking different screws off this gun (sling mount, gas block, fake #17 mount, etc) and not a SINGLE ONE has loctite on it. I am starting to think that the gun builder was allergic to loctite.
Teaser, the castle nut is SO CHEAP, that it doesn't even have to notch in it so you can stake the receiver plate to it! Never seen that level of cheapness before. :sarcastic:
C4
polydeuces
02-28-12, 21:28
Really...how much?
We need a laugh on this sad sad day.
Moose-Knuckle
02-28-12, 21:29
Bud Light really needs to do a "Real Men of Genius" commerical on this subject matter. . .
Is that guy's name Robert Wilson?
His name was Robert Paulson.
His name was Robert Paulson.
Beat me to it!:D
Real cool. This place cracks me up.
This thread is full of kiddy bull shit.
How much was it and what's wrong with it?
Ok, I have kept you guys guessing long enough on the price.
Now before I give you the price, I am just shocked at some of the prices that some of you are throwing around! Clearly, I am in the wrong end end of the AR business and need to switch out ASAP and cash in on these prices that you think dealers are getting on AR's like the one pictured.
The guy paid close to $2k for for the gun.
C4
Tomorrow, I will start posting some pics of some of the things I have found so far and the simple fixes that improve the reliability of the weapon.
Stay tuned.....
C4
Bud Light really needs to do a "Real Men of Genius" commerical on this subject matter. . .
Bud Light Presents Real Men of Genius
(Real Men of Genius)
Today we salute you, Mr. Uninformed AR15 Buyer
(Mr. Uninformed AR15 Buyer)
Hour after hour, video game after game, you found your dream gun.
(I got Top score in MW3!)
Bushmaster, 15 Lumen lights, Chinese red dots, UTG Rails, and a Tapco Stock you bought it all.
(But it's got a green laser)
Yea you got it now, no research, no planning, no clue,
(OOOOoooooohhhhh but my buddies think it's cool)
So crack open an ice cold Bud Light, Mr. Uninformed AR15 Buyer, and while your at it take a training class, or stop by m4carbine.net and use the search tool.
(Mr. Uniformed AR15 Buyer)
Evil Colt 6920
02-28-12, 21:50
The guy paid close to $2k for for the gun.
C4
:eek: OUCH! Keep selling the good stuff Grant. With this platform going mainstream its only a matter of time before the masses "learn" and start to appreciate a higher quality weapon.
coyote hunter
02-28-12, 21:54
My guess is $1,850. That was my guess before you posted the "close to $2k" but I didn't read that when I made my guess.
Help him learn. we don't know what good parts are until you learn the right way. He should appreciate the hand, and if he doesn't just let him suffer
SeriousStudent
02-28-12, 21:54
.......
The guy paid close to $2k for for the gun.
C4
Which is what he would have paid you for a Colt 6920, an Aimpoint PRO, a new old stock Surefire G2 and mount, a Vickers sling, 6 mags, and a case of decent ammo.
And one of your training classes would have been thrown in for free.
Sigh.....
ETA: And don't let Roxanne see you leaving junk like that laying around, she'll haul you off to the VA doctor for a checkup!
sinlessorrow
02-28-12, 21:56
Which is what he would have paid you for a Colt 6920, an Aimpoint PRO, a new old stock Surefire G2 and mount, a Vickers sling, 6 mags, and a case of decent ammo.
And one of your training classes would have been thrown in for free.
Sigh.....
thats what i was thinking, although instead of a G2 you can get a good M951 used for not much more
Which is what he would have paid you for a Colt 6920, an Aimpoint PRO, a new old stock Surefire G2 and mount, a Vickers sling, 6 mags, and a case of decent ammo.
And one of your training classes would have been thrown in for free.
Sigh.....
ETA: And don't let Roxanne see you leaving junk like that laying around, she'll haul you off to the VA doctor for a checkup!
LOL, she did ask me what "it" was. :D
C4
The guy paid close to $2k for for the gun.
C4
Ouch.
Per my math, that's a 6920, DD 12.0FSP Rail, Aimpoint PRO, SF/VTAC Light and IWC mount... and some to spare for mags and a sling.
Maybe go to the range with the guy, burn through some ammo, and see if he sees the light as it starts shedding crap of its own volition.
TunaFisherman
02-28-12, 22:19
Wow... is all I can say....
That is a Pro red dot?,,, I almost thought it was a Bushnell Red dot,,must have been all the other crap that confused me...
loganp0916
02-28-12, 22:23
Bud Light Presents Real Men of Genius
(Real Men of Genius)
Today we salute you, Mr. Uninformed AR15 Buyer
(Mr. Uninformed AR15 Buyer)
Hour after hour, video game after game, you found your dream gun.
(I got Top score in MW3!)
Bushmaster, 15 Lumen lights, Chinese red dots, UTG Rails, and a Tapco Stock you bought it all.
(But it's got a green laser)
Yea you got it now, no research, no planning, no clue,
(OOOOoooooohhhhh but my buddies think it's cool)
So crack open an ice cold Bud Light, Mr. Uninformed AR15 Buyer, and while your at it take a training class, or stop by m4carbine.com and use the search tool.
(Mr. Uniformed AR15 Buyer)
You sir, should be writing for bud light.
Hell, go try to sell that to them. Lol
Grant, did you show this "uninformed ar15 buyer" that he could have a colt, rail, optic, etc. for the same price, maybe some $$ left over? (I know he said he wanted a tacticool rail)
And I honestly didn't think he would have paid about $2k for it.
Why someone would have no desire to better themselves in their craft I have absolutely no idea......
And at just under 2k, I think I'm going to hurt myself....
Take him out back, drop it off the bed of a truck, and when the whole thing comes apart, ask him if there are any falls further than that in Afghanistan, and then punch him in the dick, per my sig line courtesy of Reagans Rascals
You assume that the dealer knows any better either (in regards to what is quality and what isn't). Most of my fellow dealers are clueless.
Not only do my fellow dealers not know anything about what makes a quality AR, they never attend any firearms training (as they already know everything). In fact, I think I can count on one hand the number of dealers I have seen at a training class.
C4
My guess was $1950...I am new and just got allowed to finally post...
I was shooting this weekend, with my BCM I might add, and this guy that came with a friend of mine was showing me his AR. It looked pretty beat up and I asked what brand it was. Olympic Arms, he replied. After vomit entered my mouth, I choked out an, "oh cool." I didn't have the heart to tell him. Now I'm feeling guilty BTW.
Sad thing is the guy he bought it from wanted $1600 for it with 3000 rnds of crap ammo and 30 rusted steel mags. He bought it all for $1200. Yuck....still not worth it. The gun has no "extras" except a crappy light.
MistoGators
02-28-12, 22:49
Ok, I have kept you guys guessing long enough on the price.
Now before I give you the price, I am just shocked at some of the prices that some of you are throwing around! Clearly, I am in the wrong end end of the AR business and need to switch out ASAP and cash in on these prices that you think dealers are getting on AR's like the one pictured.
The guy paid close to $2k for for the gun.
C4
Could've bought 2 6920s or BCM middies for that...
Or a 6920 with a ta31x acog...
Or a 6920 with an Aimpoint PRO and a bunch of Pmags and ammo...
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg
[QUOTE=ASH556;1243468]I'll guess he paid $1999 (what a deal!!!) The setup reminds me a lot of this guy who was in my Vickers class. By the time this pic was taken, he had already taken 3 things off his rifle because they broke. To make matters worse, he had SF plates and stickers all over his truck. I don't know if he really was or not, but there are a lot of mil guys that simply don't know quality gear.
Good on you for helping out a vet, Grant!
So right, after my knephew returned from a tour in A-stan he kept talking about how much he wanted to get an AR. I asked him what brand he was looking at...he replied DPMS. His ears perked up and began to pay some attention when I threatened to never talk to him again if he did.
The_War_Wagon
02-29-12, 00:00
you guys think you have it bad, just be glad you dont get norinco Ar15s. Heard a guy recenylu saying a norc Ar with a knock off of a UTG rail ( ya didnt know that was possible either), some Krylon and a tapco fore grip make for a rifle equal in quality to a colt. This isnt a rare occurrence either.
I note you're from Canada, where KLIN - TON I never sold you down the river on the Chinese (ban their affordable ammo, but trade them missile/computer technology for campaign contributions... :suicide: ); but now I'm CURIOUS about these Norinco AR's!
Any chance you could post some pics, info, or links to these creatures? Perhaps in a new thread, but as we've been cut off from Norinco since early '94 down here, It'd be interesting to see what they've been peddling to the REST of the world - especially in AR's. I'd love to see a detailed breakdown & writeup of one.
Ok, I have kept you guys guessing long enough on the price.
The guy paid close to $2k for for the gun.
Wow - wotta BARGAIN! That's $300 under MY low guess! :rolleyes:
sinlessorrow
02-29-12, 00:12
I note you're from Canada, where KLIN - TON I never sold you down the river on the Chinese (ban their affordable ammo, but trade them missile/computer technology for campaign contributions... :suicide: ); but now I'm CURIOUS about these Norinco AR's!
Any chance you could post some pics, info, or links to these creatures? Perhaps in a new thread, but as we've been cut off from Norinco since early '94 down here, It'd be interesting to see what they've been peddling to the REST of the world - especially in AR's. I'd love to see a detailed breakdown & writeup of one.
Wow - wotta BARGAIN! That's $300 under MY low guess! :rolleyes:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8e/NORINCO_Type_CQ_5%2756x45mm_assault_rifle.jpg/800px-NORINCO_Type_CQ_5%2756x45mm_assault_rifle.jpg
http://frontierfirearms.ca/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1000x1000/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/q/cq_20package_205421.jpg
So far, everyone that has walked into my store this week has commented that it "looked" cool. So I must be missing the boat and could be making a lot more money (if I am just willing to sell my soul).
C4
Grant, maybe you should take accolades about the AR when people walk into your store as a compliment. If I walk into a 99 cent store, I expect to see 99 cent crap. If, however, I walk into your store, I expect to see first rate quality merchandise and assume anything you display is the real deal because it is GRTactical.
Grant, I hope you don't mind, but I fixed your picture, haha
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LfduM0DcPiw/T03I2Wk1-9I/AAAAAAAAB9k/Abrq_HNlENs/s648/ST_Build1.jpg
txf15crewchief
02-29-12, 01:08
I am going to have nightmares now after looking at that thing. I feel obligated now to go cradle my 6920 after view that monstrosity. Grant I am glad you are taking the time to help/guide a fellow veteran. I personally can say I'd have no idea where I'd be at without this site.
Moose-Knuckle
02-29-12, 01:38
Bud Light Presents Real Men of Genius
(Real Men of Genius)
Today we salute you, Mr. Uninformed AR15 Buyer
(Mr. Uninformed AR15 Buyer)
Hour after hour, video game after game, you found your dream gun.
(I got Top score in MW3!)
Bushmaster, 15 Lumen lights, Chinese red dots, UTG Rails, and a Tapco Stock you bought it all.
(But it's got a green laser)
Yea you got it now, no research, no planning, no clue,
(OOOOoooooohhhhh but my buddies think it's cool)
So crack open an ice cold Bud Light, Mr. Uninformed AR15 Buyer, and while your at it take a training class, or stop by m4carbine.net and use the search tool.
(Mr. Uniformed AR15 Buyer)
That's the stuff! Bravo sir, bravo. . .:D
In Oklahoma we have a gun show dealer who sells rifles like you posted, they are usually delton uppers on a mix of lowers and parts kits. With all the Chinese acc. anyone could want, generally for 1100-1600$ They also have 4-6 girls in tight shirts that work the booth trying to sell there "custom built" ar15's.
This is a quote from there website.
Lifetime Warranty
"Our guns are guaranteed to hold a 1/2 MOA at 300 yards forever. Eight rounds, 8000 rounds, or 8 million rounds. Forever. It doesn’t matter.
Our rifles are guarranteed to do this with steel ammo, lacquered ammo, surplussed ammo or reloaded ammo. In fact any ammo listed on our competitors webisite as voiding their warranty will not void ours. We want our customers to be able to afford to shoot their weapon and have fun doing it.
If you have a provable ammo related failure to the point that it blows the back off the shell or splits the casing and does damage to the rifle the repair is 100% parts and 100% labor warrantied. With our custom rifles and pistols you do not pay for repairs or gunsmithing.
If you drop the rifle out of a tree while dee hunting, it falls off the back of your ATV that would be considered customer abuse to some manufacturers, whoever with Rijas Services that falls under the road hazard warranty. Again the rifle will be repaired at 100% parts and 100% labor warranty. All covered.
Our best advertising is spent on a satisfied customer. Would it be better to spend the money advertising in a gun magazine or solving customer related problems at no cost to the customer. That is our advertising.
The Rijas Services warranty applies to scopes, optics, and other accessories that are packaged with our weapons. If you break the scope, bring back both halves and you will receive a new scope.
Basically, the way this works when you purchase a weapon from us, whatever happens, your fault, our fault, no bodies fault, you never pay a dime again to repair the weapon. Now which weapon would you like to invest in? Would you rather pay one time or every time something goes wrong?"
And what happens when zombies come? warranty dun mean poodoo!!
That's an interesting way of making cash, though.
You guys are giving this fellow too much grief. I mean seriously, at least he is completely prepared for when these guys attack...
http://m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=342&pictureid=2477
except his ar-bortion won't zero.
"close to $2k"...wow and that guy needs to really rethink his flash hider, pistol grip, and stock situation. They do not fit with the rest of the rifle.
That rifle has won trophy's for its game face alone!
justin_247
02-29-12, 07:13
I'm very eager to see Grant's list of all of the discrepancies that needed correcting.
1/2 MOA with steel ammo? FOREVER?!?!? I'm in!!!!!
In Oklahoma we have a gun show dealer who sells rifles like you posted, they are usually delton uppers on a mix of lowers and parts kits. With all the Chinese acc. anyone could want, generally for 1100-1600$ They also have 4-6 girls in tight shirts that work the booth trying to sell there "custom built" ar15's.
This is a quote from there website.
Lifetime Warranty
"Our guns are guaranteed to hold a 1/2 MOA at 300 yards forever. Eight rounds, 8000 rounds, or 8 million rounds. Forever. It doesn’t matter.
Our rifles are guarranteed to do this with steel ammo, lacquered ammo, surplussed ammo or reloaded ammo. In fact any ammo listed on our competitors webisite as voiding their warranty will not void ours. We want our customers to be able to afford to shoot their weapon and have fun doing it.
If you have a provable ammo related failure to the point that it blows the back off the shell or splits the casing and does damage to the rifle the repair is 100% parts and 100% labor warrantied. With our custom rifles and pistols you do not pay for repairs or gunsmithing.
If you drop the rifle out of a tree while dee hunting, it falls off the back of your ATV that would be considered customer abuse to some manufacturers, whoever with Rijas Services that falls under the road hazard warranty. Again the rifle will be repaired at 100% parts and 100% labor warranty. All covered.
Our best advertising is spent on a satisfied customer. Would it be better to spend the money advertising in a gun magazine or solving customer related problems at no cost to the customer. That is our advertising.
The Rijas Services warranty applies to scopes, optics, and other accessories that are packaged with our weapons. If you break the scope, bring back both halves and you will receive a new scope.
Basically, the way this works when you purchase a weapon from us, whatever happens, your fault, our fault, no bodies fault, you never pay a dime again to repair the weapon. Now which weapon would you like to invest in? Would you rather pay one time or every time something goes wrong?"
steelonsteel
02-29-12, 07:44
face palm is not strong enough.
I'm going to guess $3250, only because that number is the most comical IMO.
i'm new here. i'm trying to learn as much as i can to buy a new rifle...very interested to see how this thread turns out.
after reading this thread, i'm likely to buy a manufacturer's brand name rifle instead of a built one.
i'm new here. i'm trying to learn as much as i can to buy a new rifle...very interested to see how this thread turns out.
after reading this thread, i'm likely to buy a manufacturer's brand name rifle instead of a built one.
Nothing wrong with assembling a AR as long as the parts are quality and you somewhat know what you are doing...
i'm new here. i'm trying to learn as much as i can to buy a new rifle...very interested to see how this thread turns out.
after reading this thread, i'm likely to buy a manufacturer's brand name rifle instead of a built one.
My thoughts exactly PackerFan. I probably would one I put together myself. Learn from the people here, ask questions if you don't know. You can put together a top notch AR by building it the way you want it. Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) is a great place to start.
I see one of these "custom" AR's at every gun show, always a bunch of possers gawaking at it wishing they had 2k to throw down for the coolest ar ever. Its always fun to walk by and say "Might be a good ar if you take all the goofy shit off of it, learn to shoot it, then put back on only what you actully need.
Grant, keep up the good work. The one percent of us who have a clue will do our best to keep your doors open.
Got everything re-assembled and fixed this morning. The gun weighed in at a hefty 10LBS!
First, the optic and the FAKE ARMS mount. The Tasco Pro Point was never designed to be put on an AR. So the gun dealer got a fake ARMS riser and attempted to use the clamps the Tasco to mount it. Just one issue. The riser won't directly mount up so they had to offset it. The screws then tighten the #17 clone onto the riser. These screws were not loctited in any way and are some of the cheapest POS I think I have ever seen.
I searched my shop over and over for some kind of Picatinny riser for this guy and couldn't come up with one. As this setup sits, it does not co-witness and there is nothing I can do to fix it. :mad:
Tasco ProPoint Mounted
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/Tasco_ProPoint.jpg
Fake ARMS mount
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/Fake_ARMS.jpg
Degreased Fake ARMS Screws
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/RDS_Degreasing.jpg
None of the screws on this gun were degreased and loctited! NONE! So I basically had to remove every single screw, degrease it and then use the correct loctite on the part.
GasBlock Screw (no loctite)
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/GB_Screw.jpg
Onto the LPK. From what I can tell (and the fact that the A2 grips says the companies name in it), I am assuming that this is a RRA LPK.
The selector had a lot of drag in the middle section of it (as you transition from safe to fire). So I removed it and found burrs and very narrow channel between the two stops. Using a needle file, I cleaned out the channel and opened it up slightly. I then applied a little bit of grease in there to help smooth everything out.
Poor quality selector
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/Selector.jpg
Fixed selector
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/Selector_Filed.jpg
Next was the castle nut. What a POS. It is so cheap that it was missing the locking slots in it! On top of that, it was almost hand tight on the gun and would have surely come loose.
To fix this issue, I simply threw it in the trash can and grabbed a Colt castle nut. Installed and staked it properly.
Worst castle nut ever
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/Cheap_CastleNut.jpg
Good Castle nut installed
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/CastleNut_Staked.jpg
Moving through the gun, we next look at the BCG. The good news is that it has an M16 carrier (golf clap), but the staking of the gas key looked like Ray Charles did it. They attempted to use the dimple method but only made contact with the screws (which does nothing). The bolt had no markings on it so I have not idea where it came from.
To fix it, I simply staked all the screws.
Poor stake job
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/GasKey_Poorly_Staked.jpg
Properly staked
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/GasKey_Staked.jpg
Onto the barrel extension and chamber. The barrel extension and the cuts in the upper receiver are not aligned properly (not to bad though). The barrel said "5.56 NATO" on it so I put in my gauge to double check it. Sure enough, it was slightly out of spec. So in went the 5.56 reamer. Problem solved.
Misaligned barrel extension/feed ramps
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/Mis-Aligned_BarrelEXT.jpg
The tape switch (with the rubber band holding it on) was a hot mess. It had some type of goo on it that I could not get off my hands. Ugh. So I hit it all with solvent and scraped it off. Lord only knows what the dealer put on there.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/Tape_Switch_Goo.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/Tape_Switch_Goo1.jpg
The BCG was filthy and had ZERO lube on it so I thought I might as well clean it while I had it out. Time for the Ultra Sonic Cleaner to do its thing!
Small Parts going into the bin for cleaning
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/Parts_Cleaning.jpg
Hot oil bath is next
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/USC_Lube_Pan.jpg
Cleaned and Lubed BCG
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/BCG_Lubed.jpg
Bolt properly lubed
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/Bolt_Lubed.jpg
Bolt Carrier properly lubed
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/BC_Lubed.jpg
CH properly lubed
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Repair/CH_Lubed.jpg
THE END!
Thoughts. I know many of us are thinking that the guy that bought this was a pure idiot and failed to do his research. I fully understand this train of thought. The person I blame though is the dealer that put this thing together. Not ONLY did they use all the cheapest parts they could find, but the gun was never assembled properly. If you don't know how to build an AR then STAY IN YOUR LANE because your stupidity could cost someone their life! [/rant off]
The TRUE purpose behind this thread was for FUTURE AR buyers to realize that there are A LOT of AR dealers out there that know next to nothing about the products they sell or how to properly assembly anything. If you are buying a "custom built" gun, do your research and ask questions about the dealer in question! This is now the SECOND uber expensive POS that I have seen come through my store that was not built properly by a local dealer/manufacturer!
In closing, this gun had so much FAIL going on that I feel bad for the owner so I don't think I am going to charge him for a single part or my time. No need to throw salt into the wound.....
C4
Your doing Gods work Grant.
Good on you. Respect!
It's a shame that people get duped like this. To be honest though before coming here I would have never know what to look for either.
Your doing Gods work Grant.
Good on you. Respect!
Thank you for the kind words.
C4
Kudo's to you Grant! Very informative. +1 for the good guys!
Im going to go finger **** my rifle for awhile now. What has been seen cannot be unseen.
Grant, thank you for being a stand up guy and doing the right thing. We need more people like you.
deadlyfire
02-29-12, 10:56
I like the very informative side by side pictures, I don't think teaching someone about AR15s could be simpler than a gander at this thread.
loganp0916
02-29-12, 10:57
In closing, this gun had so much FAIL going on that I feel bad for the owner so I don't think I am going to charge him for a single part or my time. No need to throw salt into the wound.....
C4
Wow. Just, WOW. Grant you're an amazing person. Kudos to you for helping a man out at your own expense. Hopefully he will learn that there actually is a ton of shit wrong with his rifle from this experience.
In closing, this gun had so much FAIL going on that I feel bad for the owner so I don't think I am going to charge him for a single part or my time. No need to throw salt into the wound.....
C4
So let me get this straight, first gun dealer overcharges and puts cheap pos parts on it. Then, the guy brings it to you (a legit gun dealer and parts provider) to fix the issues with a gun he bought from this overcharging idiot, you fix it then don't charge him? Wow. I respect that big time and I don't even know you. I am new here but you just found yourself another customer.
That shows some character. Something most are lacking this day and age.
ETA: Not to mention I'll bet that if he brought it back to the place he bought it, they would either tell him it's a high quality piece and nothing is wrong, or overcharge him for doing a field strip cleaning...
So let me get this straight, first gun dealer overcharges and puts cheap pos parts on it. Then, the guy brings it to you (a legit gun dealer and parts provider) to fix the issues with a gun he bought from this overcharging idiot, you fix it then don't charge him? Wow. I respect that big time and I don't even know you. I am new here but you just found yourself another customer.
That shows some character. Something most are lacking this day and age.
That is Grant for you. There is a reason that I send just about everyone to him. I have a similar dealer/Gun Smith in my area that is friends with Grant. They are the ONLY two people that I really trust in this.
That is Grant for you. There is a reason that I send just about everyone to him. I have a similar dealer/Gun Smith in my area that is friends with Grant. They are the ONLY two people that I really trust in this.
Well, I can understand why.
Those unstakeable castle nuts come from ATI.
Those unstakeable castle nuts come from ATI.
Really? Pure crap.
C4
Wow! What a pile of steaming crap. That flashlight looks like it weighs as much as the upper!
Hard to feel sorry for someone who doesn't do their homework!
Grant,
So we know that the lower was from Spike's (no problem there), the crappy LPK was presumably RRA....any ideas on where the other parts came from? The out-of-spec chamber sounds like DPMS. What company uses M16 BCGs with such poor staking?
I probably missed this along the way, but was this an assembled by the dealer sort of rifle?
Really? Pure crap.
C4
Yes, I ordered one online thinking a castle nut is a castle nut is a castle nut. When it arrived, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I went out and replaced it with a Colt. I think I still have the ATI around here somewhere as a reminder that even the simplest parts can be FUBARed.
Good job Grant.
I hope you told him about your training courses. :cool:
Good job Grant.
I hope you told him about your training courses. :cool:
Pssh, don't be silly. It's about looking cool, not being good.
^^ These are the kind of dumb asses that hang around here? :lol:
Grant,
So we know that the lower was from Spike's (no problem there), the crappy LPK was presumably RRA....any ideas on where the other parts came from? The out-of-spec chamber sounds like DPMS. What company uses M16 BCGs with such poor staking?
I probably missed this along the way, but was this an assembled by the dealer sort of rifle?
The barrel and rail was made by Ultra Mag (whoeve that is).
I have not seen that style of gas key dimpling in a long time so I don't know where it came from.
C4
Bad Medicine
02-29-12, 11:46
Great write up Grant! How was the lower parts kit? It takes a retarded monkey to mess up the lower though!
Have to give respect for someone to fix anothers mistakes at no charge. :big_boss:
Breadstick
02-29-12, 12:05
again...wow. Fine job Grant
Positive Displacement
02-29-12, 12:06
Thoughts. I know many of us are thinking that the guy that bought this was a pure idiot and failed to do his research. I fully understand this train of thought. The person I blame though is the dealer that put this thing together. Not ONLY did they use all the cheapest parts they could find, but the gun was never assembled properly. If you don't know how to build an AR then STAY IN YOUR LANE because your stupidity could cost someone their life! [/rant off]
The TRUE purpose behind this thread was for FUTURE AR buyers to realize that there are A LOT of AR dealers out there that know next to nothing about the products they sell or how to properly assembly anything. If you are buying a "custom built" gun, do your research and ask questions about the dealer in question! This is now the SECOND uber expensive POS that I have seen come through my store that was not built properly by a local dealer/manufacturer!
In closing, this gun had so much FAIL going on that I feel bad for the owner so I don't think I am going to charge him for a single part or my time. No need to throw salt into the wound.....
Sir,
This speaks volumes on your character and integrity and wanting to educate for the future.
Moose-Knuckle
02-29-12, 12:07
I hope those that are new to the AR will learn from this thread. We're not "gun snobs" here. Before M4C I was on the TOS and was accused of being a "brand snob" because I always advised people to go with Colt as a base AR-15.
The rifle that Grant is detailing in this thread is just one example, the gun shows in my area (and there are a lot here in DFW) are nothing but table after table of commercial grade "hobby" guns and "custom builds" like this one. Same for most of the gun shops.
As rob s is fond of saying, strive to be your own SME (subject matter expert) and arm yourself with knowledge. . .buyer beware.
The barrel and rail was made by Ultra Mag (whoeve that is).
I have not seen that style of gas key dimpling in a long time so I don't know where it came from.
C4
This is Ultra Mag:
Ultra Mag Barrel (http://762mmfirearms.com/ultramag16mid-lengthflutedbarrels.aspx)
Great write up Grant! How was the lower parts kit? It takes a retarded monkey to mess up the lower though!
Other than the selector, they seemed fine, but wouldn't recommend them until I put some rounds through them first.
C4
Thoughts. I know many of us are thinking that the guy that bought this was a pure idiot and failed to do his research. I fully understand this train of thought. The person I blame though is the dealer that put this thing together. Not ONLY did they use all the cheapest parts they could find, but the gun was never assembled properly. If you don't know how to build an AR then STAY IN YOUR LANE because your stupidity could cost someone their life! [/rant off]
The TRUE purpose behind this thread was for FUTURE AR buyers to realize that there are A LOT of AR dealers out there that know next to nothing about the products they sell or how to properly assembly anything. If you are buying a "custom built" gun, do your research and ask questions about the dealer in question! This is now the SECOND uber expensive POS that I have seen come through my store that was not built properly by a local dealer/manufacturer!
In closing, this gun had so much FAIL going on that I feel bad for the owner so I don't think I am going to charge him for a single part or my time. No need to throw salt into the wound.....
C4[/QUOTE]
Grant, I'm at a loss for words and you sir truely are one of the "GOOD" guys out there. I commend you for doing such a good deed and kudo's to you friend. This day and age, you simply do not often see this level of service and I will gladly give you all the business I can! Take care. :smile:
It was very commendable for you to fix up this pile of junk for the owner, thank you.
However I don't think the dealer that made this abortion should be protected. This is a person/business who is clearly not doing well by their customers. They, to me, do not deserve to have their business protected, they deserve to lose business. I feel like they should be publicly shamed for taking advantage of people, not protected.
But again, it was very kind of you to take care of the owner of the AR in question.
It was very commendable for you to fix up this pile of junk for the owner, thank you.
However I don't think the dealer that made this abortion should be protected. This is a person/business who is clearly not doing well by their customers. They, to me, do not deserve to have their business protected, they deserve to lose business. I feel like they should be publicly shamed for taking advantage of people, not protected.
But again, it was very kind of you to take care of the owner of the AR in question.
I understand your opinion and do agree with it, but my days of diming out fellow dealers/manufacturers is pretty much over (too much drama for me).
C4
That rifle looks like the first AR I ever bought.......
Made me have a sinking feeling in my stomuch....
NEVER AGAIN!!!
I commend you sir for helping that poor sap out....
The_War_Wagon
02-29-12, 14:12
Good job Grant.
I hope you told him about your training courses. :cool:
Ditto that. I've enjoyed learning from him on the range, as well as buying tons of his parts/gear!
In Oklahoma we have a gun show dealer who sells rifles like you posted, they are usually delton uppers on a mix of lowers and parts kits. With all the Chinese acc. anyone could want, generally for 1100-1600$ They also have 4-6 girls in tight shirts that work the booth trying to sell there "custom built" ar15's.
This is a quote from there website.
Lifetime Warranty
"Our guns are guaranteed to hold a 1/2 MOA at 300 yards forever. Eight rounds, 8000 rounds, or 8 million rounds. Forever. It doesn’t matter.
Our rifles are guarranteed to do this with steel ammo, lacquered ammo, surplussed ammo or reloaded ammo. In fact any ammo listed on our competitors webisite as voiding their warranty will not void ours. We want our customers to be able to afford to shoot their weapon and have fun doing it.
If you have a provable ammo related failure to the point that it blows the back off the shell or splits the casing and does damage to the rifle the repair is 100% parts and 100% labor warrantied. With our custom rifles and pistols you do not pay for repairs or gunsmithing.
If you drop the rifle out of a tree while dee hunting, it falls off the back of your ATV that would be considered customer abuse to some manufacturers, whoever with Rijas Services that falls under the road hazard warranty. Again the rifle will be repaired at 100% parts and 100% labor warranty. All covered.
Our best advertising is spent on a satisfied customer. Would it be better to spend the money advertising in a gun magazine or solving customer related problems at no cost to the customer. That is our advertising.
The Rijas Services warranty applies to scopes, optics, and other accessories that are packaged with our weapons. If you break the scope, bring back both halves and you will receive a new scope.
Basically, the way this works when you purchase a weapon from us, whatever happens, your fault, our fault, no bodies fault, you never pay a dime again to repair the weapon. Now which weapon would you like to invest in? Would you rather pay one time or every time something goes wrong?"
Small world...I know the exact guy your talking about. This same idiot tried telling me and a buddy of mine how he would "Show us how NOT to file down certain parts of his custom uzi/mac...whatever...as to keep it from going full auto. Yup, show us how NOT to do that." Oh how I wish some ATF agent would have been around to hear him say that...I too have noticed the crap he keeps his tables stocked with. DPMS, CMMG, Bushmasters with NCstar crap all over them. Yet he "built" them all himself? And he definitely uses the girls to his advantage, although none look like they want to be there. It must work judging by the people he has lined up to buy his super warrantied guns though. All the shows I've been to around here are filled full of stuff like that unfortunately.
I understand your opinion and do agree with it, but my days of diming out fellow dealers/manufacturers is pretty much over (too much drama for me).
C4
This is exactly why Grant is one of the best. Not only does he know his stuff, but he is professional. If you spent a day going from gunshop to gunshop in my area you would hear them all constantly bashing each other. They sound like a bunch of squabbling 5 year olds. Very unprofessional in my opinion. Also, their stores are full of guns just like the one in this thread.
That rifle loks like one of the typical gunshow specials you find around here and people buy em up! Something about haing all that crap hanging off them that makes clueless people go nuts.
Rolex_John
02-29-12, 14:41
In closing, this gun had so much FAIL going on that I feel bad for the owner so I don't think I am going to charge him for a single part or my time. No need to throw salt into the wound.....
C4
I just sent you an email - based on this thread, I'm ordering a Colt 6940 from you, with some custom options. So perhaps some ROI/goodness is coming from your kind treatment of this gentlemen, and time in on the thread.
steelonsteel
02-29-12, 15:39
Bravo to you Grant - you're a better man than I.
SpookyPistolero
02-29-12, 15:50
Effin' A. You are my Oprah, Grant. This is why I buy weapons from you and not the jackholes at Bud's.
To fix this issue, I simply threw it in the trash can and grabbed a Colt [castle nut].
C4
I almost peed whilst giggling, when I thought about how applicable this solution would be to most AR-related problems.
Great work.
Sometimes learning can be expensive.
That's a lot of lube on the bolt though, isn't it??
Read my reply below yours about a 6920.
It is a 100% parts gun with the BEST PART OF THE GUN BEING THE SPIKES TACTICAL LOWER!! :sarcastic:
C4
Is it a dick lower?
The educational process that customer went through was priceless as I am sure he will never do that again and also spread the word to his friends. Helping that customer out probably just earned you 10 more customers and that will multiply. As for the dealer who assembled and sold that I am sure know matter what anyone thinks he could care less for him it's all about the green. It's all about being able to stand behind what you sell especially for things that might just save your life. Grant as always, humbled by your efforts!!!
Great work.
Sometimes learning can be expensive.
That's a lot of lube on the bolt though, isn't it??
Learning CAN be expensive. Lube, generally is not.
SeriousStudent
02-29-12, 18:26
This is why GandRTactical is my local gun store.
And it's only an 1159 mile drive. ;)
Grant do you expect that optic to hold zero now? Your work in mounting it is not in question, but what about the optic itself?
Your good man, Grant. I dont know any other firearms dealer that would do that for someone. I know from this you will have a new customer from this gentleman that owns this rifle. Have you test fired it yet. Let us know how well it does.
New here but very impressed with the knowledge I've seen and the service Grant provides. I wish I'd have found this site and known this before my last 2 purchases. As soon as funds permit I'm going to order and upper from Grant for my BM.
As for the lube pics, WOW... I've always been told light lube for an AR. Reading this site I learned more is better but would have never thought that much.
I have so much more to learn and appreciate all the info that this site provides...
This was educational. It had everything wrong, almost. It was interesting to see how it all comes together and how important each thing really is.
I'll be showing this to some people for educational purposes.
I propose this thread be made into a new one and then pinned to the top "why quality matters" or something... it would help people understand to look close at what they are buying as well as put forward a better appreciation and understanding of quality manufacturers like Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, LMT, and so on...
Battle*Hound
02-29-12, 19:30
I am going to guess $2250 is what he paid. Why anyone in there right mind would use a grip pod is beyond me and jesus what is with that tac-light. It's like a whole other rifle in its own right.
:lol Too true!
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