View Full Version : some help for New Yorkers
First off this isn't a political thread. NY guns laws blow and we all know it.
Secondly this isn't a debate about the quality of Windham Weaponry. There's a chance they blow too considering their heritage but I think they should be given a chance even though I won't be the one doing that.
With that said.... They offer an NY compliant AR. The interesting thing is the legal flash hider it comes with. Apparently if the hole at the end, for lack of technical term, is a certain diameter its legal. A lot like the hole on a comp or break as opposed to the open style of a standard flash hider.
I'm sick of spending upwards of $100 to purchase some compliant break/comp and then paying someone to pin and weld it so I thought this would be a cost efficiant alternative. Does it do a good job as a flash hider ?? I have no idea. Have I gone this many years without a flash hider anyways and lived ?? Yes.
I called Windham today and they told me individual sales of these NY legal FH's should be availible in about 3 weeks. With a standard A2 going for $7 these should be affordable as well.
I've also heard that their immediate goal is to mainly supply the North East and they are trying to acquire stock piles of pre-ban USGI mags to offer with their rifles and to sell at affordable prices.
I hope all this pans out and will update if and when it ever happens.
Sorry for the long winded post.
Nice that they decided to offer a simple solution for people in NY. However..... Well, I'll leave ya'll to educate yourselves about the quality of the product.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=83130&highlight=windham+weaponry
A $7 flash hider is about the only thing of theirs I'd let touch the BCM upper I ordered last night.
BC's are cool but I'd rather drop $150 on ammo.
NRA CEO Waybe LaPierre is coming to the capital in a few weeks and were going down there to March on Albany. I have my fingers crossed for the future.
Canonshooter
02-28-12, 18:46
As a person who lived in NY (Long Island) for 54 years, I feel your pain. But to make any AR NY AWB-compliant all you need to do is (1) pin on a brake (or go with an unthreaded barrel) and (2) use a fixed stock. Those two simple things IMO are not nearly enough reason to circumvent buying a known quality rifle from one of the reputable makers.
FWIW, I ran a pinned PWS FSC556 comp and a Sully stock to keep the NY communists happy.
Apparently if the hole at the end, for lack of technical term, is a certain diameter its legal. A lot like the hole on a comp or break as opposed to the open style of a standard flash hider.
Where did you see the hole size listed as a standard for legality? Looking at the BATFE letter for the PWS FSC556, the method used to determine whether or not the device was a flash suppressor was to run comparison photos against an A2. http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/documents/ATF_FSC556.pdf To the best of my knowledge, these letters are not provided anymore.
I'm all for checking out new products that keep us out of the clink, but I wouldn't buy a whole rifle just to get a cheap brake. Cheap brakes (Stag's come to mind) tend to be brutally loud as well. I'd rather spend the $109 to have BCM perm attach the FSC556 for me and pack the BATFE letter in my range bag.
Again.... I don't feel like spending upwards of $100 on a comp/break.
If I lived in a non ban state I'd run $7 flash hiders all day.
Now one has come along that is NY compliant. Its not like I'm looking for a Windham BCG
I know how to make a rifle NY compliant. Your right, its not complicated.
Who's buying a whole rifle ??
Actually I am. Scooped my BCM upper last night.
Just looking for a cheaper alternative in regards to muzzle devices.
NYS should split in two. That way everybody gets representation in state gov, not just NYC/Nassau/Suffolk.
**** big cities. **** socialism
You still have to pin it as per NYS law and I also wouldn't trust a NYS legal flash hider because FLASH HIDERS are illegal in NY.
I dont mean to be the wet towel. Just saying.
I for one have a 16' that I haven't pinned the BC on "yet". And of course Ive never put it on a lower....;)
Again.... I don't feel like spending upwards of $100 on a comp/break.
If I lived in a non ban state I'd run $7 flash hiders all day.
Now one has come along that is NY compliant. Its not like I'm looking for a Windham BCG
I know how to make a rifle NY compliant. Your right, its not complicated.
They quoted you $7 for the comp? I see the A2 listed for about that price. The Stag at $25 is the cheapest comp I can think of. http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?products_id=334
Here's the spec sheet on the WW "MPC-NY" if anyone is curious: http://www.windhamweaponry.com/pdf/TechSheets/MPC-NY%201-10-12NP.pdf Looks like an A2 in the pic though. *shrug*
Canonshooter
02-28-12, 19:45
Regardless if it costs $7 or $107, it will still need to be pinned - so you may as well pin on something worthy.
If you pin a Battlecomp onto a 14.5 inch barrel, it will have resale value anywhere and still satisfy the Schumer/McCarthy/Cuomo crowd.
You still have to pin it as per NYS law and I also wouldn't trust a NYS legal flash hider because FLASH HIDERS are illegal in NY.
I dont mean to be the wet towel. Just saying.
I for one have a 16' that I haven't pinned the BC on "yet". And of course Ive never put it on a lower....;)
Yup....I'll have to pin it but I'll still be $100-$150 ahead of the game.
This honestly sounds like another one of the grey areas that seem to revolve around muzzle devices in ban states.
A letter from the BATFE is a good idea and if there is no issues that shouldn't be difficult.
Bushmaster/Windham might not have a good rep for quality but you'd think, at least I'd hope that they wouldve ironed all that out before they pushed a specifically NY compliant item.
The legality of the hole at the end was news to me as well but they're being sold here now.
JW1069
I don't know anything about a Windham comp/break. I didn't state a quoted price on this device either. Their standard FH is $7 and seeing how these are nearly identical I "assumed" they should be affordable comparatively. Someone could argue that if they're nearly identical how could it be legal but that's the nature of these mainly cosmetic band items. The fact that any comp/break needs a letter from the BATFE in the first place sort of makes that point.
I could buy a cheap break but I'm not a fan on breaks. The BC does give me a chubby but right now the price isn't feasible for me.
When it comes to weaponry being a gear snob is a very good thing. This is one item I'm willing to skimp on considering my perdicament.
Resale is also never a concern of mine. Not to mention after seeing Grants "This is what awesome looks like" thread it seem the more cheap shit on my rifle the more I could get if I did sell. That's a joke ;-)
northern1, I'm just not picking up what you're putting down. Rather than go down the path of more confusion, I'll give Windham a call tomorrow just to satisfy my curiosity as to what they expect to sell this new wonder brake for. Even if it's $10 (wild-azzed guess for now), that's going to be of interest to the DIY guys who know how to perm attach a brake because the local smiths will still upcharge for their time to do the mod.
Regarding them selling "affordable" preban mags down the road: call me a skeptic, but they have $19.95 USGI post ban 30 rounders on their site now. That doesn't bode well for "affordable" prebans. :suicide:
"Wonder Break" ??
I'd buy a BC or SF if I wanted a wonder break. I want a cheap alternative.
As far as the mags... We'll see. I'm not saying I'm not skeptical myself. In my area quality OEM pre-bans are difficult to find and I'm going to get ripped off anyways being a NY resident, so a steady supply could be convenient.
Your mostly preaching to the choir. Give'em a call and maybe you'll pick up what I'm putting down or think its rediculous. I'm just throwing it out there
The letter from the ATF only covers federal interpretation according to the federal ban which has since sunsetted. You have to go by the definition as set by the regulating jurisdiction
The letter from the ATF only covers federal interpretation according to the federal ban which has since sunsetted. You have to go by the definition as set by the regulating jurisdiction
Correct. They adopted the federal law verbatim. But that doesn't matter now. Now, it's whatever Albany says
The letter from the ATF only covers federal interpretation according to the federal ban which has since sunsetted. You have to go by the definition as set by the regulating jurisdiction
NY's AWB mirrors the federal AWB. NY residents have gotten compliance letters pertaining to certain devices, as was stated earlier but I forget if its from BATFE or NYS Police.
Jurisdictions like NYC and Rochester have implimented additional restrictions but none of the additional restrictions pertain to muzzle devices. If a Battle Comp for example, or other device has been OK'd its just as legal in Troy as it is in Buffalo
We are left with a lot of grey areas though for sure and its just a safe assumption everything is illigal in NYC including Nerf Guns and water pistols.
NY's AWB mirrors the federal AWB. NY residents have gotten compliance letters pertaining to certain devices, as was stated earlier but I forget if its from BATFE or NYS Police.
Jurisdictions like NYC and Rochester have implimented additional restrictions but none of the additional restrictions pertain to muzzle devices. If a Battle Comp for example, or other device has been OK'd its just as legal in Troy as it is in Buffalo
We are left with a lot of grey areas though for sure and its just a safe assumption everything is illigal in NYC including Nerf Guns and water pistols.
EDIT: looks like me and SMETNA replied at the same time
Canonshooter
02-29-12, 05:52
Another inexpensive alternative is the Bushmaster Izzy brake;
http://www.bushmaster.com/products.asp?cat=8
It's still $36.95 though. They list an AK-style brake on the same page for $28 - I'm not sure you're going to find anything else for much less than that.
So as far as I can see you have the following choices;
1. Pin a decent muzzle device for about $150 total
2. Pin a cheap muzzle device for about half of that
3. Go with a unthreaded barrel and no muzzle device at all
4. Move out of NY
Good luck - I wish we could have been more help.
Just hung up with a lady in sales. She did not have any cost or availability info for their A2 look-alike brake shown on the NY Compliant rifle. I asked what was the difference between their device and a standard A2 and she answered that is uses a smaller opening than the A2. I have some LE contacts to run this by for their take on legality.
So, bottom line is the jury is still out on whether or not this will be a viable low cost alternative to perm attach on a post ban upper.
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