View Full Version : Thoughts about BCM SAM Rifle or A5
Hey guys and gals,
Done a search and haven't found a whole lot discussing the usefulness of BCM's SAM Rifle or A5 Rifle. I am new to BCM, but have heard nothing but good things about them. I am looking to purchase my first "nice" AR outside of the military.
I am a combat veteran, and currently a police officer, and need a rifle for those "situations" and I am thinking about taking some high speed, low drag, training classes. Would also be interested in DMR courses for urban warfare.
How would you guys rate the rifles listed above for the uses I want with them. I figured the two rifles listed would be much heavier and bulkier than a standard patrol rifle, but to be honest, it wouldn't get used much with the profession hopefully. I am looking for a dual purpose gun. I would like something accurate for gunfighter and sniper type courses, but also something that would be very effective for police work, if needed.
It seems like I can only purchase the uppers of both rifles listed. Anyone know where I could buy the complete rifle of either? Or is there anyone that has a nice used one?
Thanks for you help in advance guys.
pleaforwar
02-28-12, 23:58
Are you on patrol or are you on a specialized detail/unit?
Being a LEO myself I think a Recce setup would be far more useful. Considering urban distances limit your shot range the lighter 16 inch barrel would work better and be just as accurate.
Are you on patrol or are you on a specialized detail/unit?
Thanks for the quick reply. I am on patrol. However, like most places, we can only use ARs in certain circumstances.. Won't be always walking around with an AR. :p
Being a LEO myself I think a Recce setup would be far more useful. Considering urban distances limit your shot range the lighter 16 inch barrel would work better and be just as accurate.
Thanks for your reply. Sounds interesting. I suppose that would make sense. Considering a longer barrel really doesn't improve accuracy per say, but does velocity. However, my ranges in an urban environment will not allow me to see those advantages. But for my other uses in training classes and modern gunfighting training, will the 16" Recce suffice to say, oh 500 meters or so? Also, do you use a BCM Recce? Thanks again.
pleaforwar
02-29-12, 00:30
C-Grunt is on point, and knowing him in person I can tell you his input is valid.
If you are on patrol there is no reason for you to have a rifle that replicates a full-length rifle. If I were in your boots I would want something as compact and light as possible.
I don't know who you served with, but when I was in the Corps there were plenty of Marines that qualified at 500 yards with a M4. Given a 14.5" barrel, I think you should be just fine with a 16" AR-15.
BTW, what rifles does your department authorize?
sinlessorrow
02-29-12, 00:34
i would try to get a 14.5" pinned, that will give you the optimal CQB rifle while avoiding the NFA
C-Grunt is on point, and knowing him in person I can tell you his input is valid.
If you are on patrol there is no reason for you to have a rifle that replicates a full-length rifle. If I were in your boots I would want something as compact and light as possible.
I don't know who you served with, but when I was in the Corps there were plenty of Marines that qualified at 500 yards with a M4. Given a 14.5" barrel, I think you should be just fine with a 16" AR-15.
BTW, what rifles does your department authorize?
Pleaforwar,
Yea, I figured C-Grunt was on track. Army here, so 300 yards was always easy with my Colt M4. Currently, my department authorizes the typical ABCD brands. Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, and DPMS. Oh yea, and Rock River Arms. However, since my joining the department, knowing the firearms instructors, and raging on buying such crap AR's (other than Colt.), I have gotten them to accept BCM, LMT, Noveske, Knight's Armament, LWRC, and Daniel Defense.
Before they authorized the others, I was looking to get a Colt LE6920 or the LE6920SOCOM.
Yea, being new to posting on the forums, I hope you didn't take me as being insulting. Wasn't trying to be. Being a newly wed, I haven't really been able to splurge with money for a nice weapon and I am of the type, if I can't have something nice and something I want, I just won't buy junk and settle. :sarcastic:Thanks for your help.
i would try to get a 14.5" pinned, that will give you the optimal CQB rifle while avoiding the NFA
Sinless,
Thanks for the reply, yea I was thinking something like that early on. Maybe the BCM 14.5" Midlength system. Seems like it would the "cat's meow" of smooth. That and the 16" in the same platform.
pleaforwar
02-29-12, 01:42
Well, being that your department has opened up to various options that have been more proven than others, I would say look into standard 14.5" or 16" length LMT, Colt, BCM, KAC, or DD options.
You're a patrol LEO, not a STE or SDM soldier/Marine, so I'd ditch the idea of engaging targets outside of a reasonable perimeter scenario. A 16" AR should fit your needs just fine.
If you wanna roll with BCM, do so, but there is no need to get a rifle-length upper for your current needs.
Cheers,
Dan
Well, being that your department has opened up to various options that have been more proven than others, I would say look into standard 14.5" or 16" length LMT, Colt, BCM, KAC, or DD options.
You're a patrol LEO, not a STE or SDM soldier/Marine, so I'd ditch the idea of engaging targets outside of a reasonable perimeter scenario. A 16" AR should fit your needs just fine.
If you wanna roll with BCM, do so, but there is no need to get a rifle-length upper for your current needs.
Cheers,
Dan
Thanks, that is what my original plan was in the beginning, like I was stating to the other guy, but then got on a kick of maybe making a dual purpose weapon system. I see BCM offers a 14.5" SOCOM in carbine length gas system. I am interested in this new Mid length gas system technology. Being in the service, I only know Rifle and Carbine systems. Have you worked a middy yet? How do you like them compared to carbine? Thanks.
If you're using it for patrol, I'd get that 14.5" pinned BCM that was suggested, put an Aimpoint on it and be done.
If you're using it for patrol, I'd get that 14.5" pinned BCM that was suggested, put an Aimpoint on it and be done.
Jake'sDad,
Sounds like a plan.. Thanks! Now to decide between Carbine length gas and Mid length gas.... Carbine is the traditional 14.5" M4 gas system, but mid length sounds nice as well...
I personally would go midlength as it is a bit more tuned. The carbine system is proven and works, we know this, but a smoother running system is what I choose when I have the option.
justin_247
02-29-12, 04:26
Get a Colt LE6920, cut down the carry handle so you're only left with a rear BUIS, buy an Aimpoint PRO and a VCAS sling, and be done with it.
You'll be G2G!
Thanks for your reply. Sounds interesting. I suppose that would make sense. Considering a longer barrel really doesn't improve accuracy per say, but does velocity. However, my ranges in an urban environment will not allow me to see those advantages. But for my other uses in training classes and modern gunfighting training, will the 16" Recce suffice to say, oh 500 meters or so? Also, do you use a BCM Recce? Thanks again.
I dont carry a BCM. My current duty rifle is a city owned Bushy but I have a Colt for when they finally let me carry my own.
My current setup is a flashlight and an ACOG. Our patrol protocol doesnt let us enter building with a rifle unless its an emergency, ie active shooters. So we use them FAR more often as perimeter security which the ACOG does really well.
A good free floated 16 inch rifle will easily shoot out to 500 yards. Like Pleaforwar said, there are plenty of Marines shooting out to 500 meters with M4s. Another member, Trident82, has been video documenting his distance shooting with both a 16 and 18 inch barrelled rifles out to 1000 yards. His hits at that range arent a given but he has a decent percentage and the misses are close.
My dept supposedly has the longest police shooting in US history at a little over 300 yards. That was a strange set of circumstances that led to it. But even so that range is well withing effective range of a 14.5 or 16 inch barrel. Just for info the officer used an iron sighted Colt Hbar.
I was an officer for 22 years and one of our department firearms instructors. Here is my suggestion.
Get a 16" light weight with mid gas system. I suggest getting a 16" gun because your going to want to change things around until you find the set up that works for you. If you get a pinned 14.5" gun you won't be able to change out the gas block and hand guard without milling/grinding off the muzzle device. it can be done but it's a pain.
Make sure you have an adjustable stock so you can make it fit you with concealed body armor and entry body armor over it. I like the Magpul CTR. Make sure it has a rubber but plate so it doesn't slip around, we tend to wear a lot of nylon.
Optic of choice but I would go with a T-1 (H-1 if you don't need NV) you can leave it on forever damn near.
If you think you need magnification go with something in a 1-4 range in a ADM or larue mount. You won't need more than 1-4 magnification. Police engagements are (nearly) always under 100 yds.
A good sling. Your going to carry it a hell of a lot more than shooting it. I like a sling I can quickly adjust from single to double point sling and tighten down if I have to crawl or climb.
White head light. I like the Gear sector 45 degree rail mount with a pistol light on it mounted to the right side front edge of the rail.
Good luck be safe,
Darkop
Sinless,
Thanks for the reply, yea I was thinking something like that early on. Maybe the BCM 14.5" Midlength system. Seems like it would the "cat's meow" of smooth. That and the 16" in the same platform.
with one gun, I would choose a 16" midlength, hands down.
at 14.5" I would go with carbine gas rather than midlength. a Daniel Defense FSP or similar rail, or a Centurion Cutout rail would be the cat's meow...
Magic_Salad0892
02-29-12, 15:55
14.5'' LW Midlength gun is one very good option.
I would do 14.5'' LW CAR gas gun with VLTOR A5 system, and LMT Enhanced carrier.
Colt ideally.
pleaforwar
02-29-12, 22:09
Thanks, that is what my original plan was in the beginning, like I was stating to the other guy, but then got on a kick of maybe making a dual purpose weapon system. I see BCM offers a 14.5" SOCOM in carbine length gas system. I am interested in this new Mid length gas system technology. Being in the service, I only know Rifle and Carbine systems. Have you worked a middy yet? How do you like them compared to carbine? Thanks.
Yea, I have a couple of middys:
My main training rifle, an amalgamation of LMT, VLTOR, and Sabre Defence (~6700 rounds, 4 courses):
http://pleaforwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/VORTEX-PST.jpg
My backup rifle, DD complete upper on a LMT complete lower (very few rounds, hasn't been needed yet, also has an CompML3 now):
http://pleaforwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/paint1.jpg
Noveske N4 14.5" Middy (haven't ran it yet):
http://pleaforwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/noveske.jpg
Midlength rifles are great, but don't think for a minute that you HAVE to have a midlength because carbine systems are too "rough" on internals, too much recoil, etc etc.
I personally would go midlength as it is a bit more tuned. The carbine system is proven and works, we know this, but a smoother running system is what I choose when I have the option.
Can you explain this please? Tuned to what standard?
I'm not hating on midlength, not at all. Just curious as to that claim and how so many are ready to ditch the standard carbine. Both are excellent choices. But for LE/MiL use, I'd go with a standard M4 type carbine with a white light and Aimpoint red dot.
Well, we know gas port size matters across the board. That isn't where I'm touching since he's looking to buy quality.
The physics in this case is sort of common sense. The tube's volume is larger and thus the impulse of the gas will be smoother. The felt recoil goes down and the controlability of the weapon goes up due to this.
Now, with the shorter carbine gas tube the gas is said to reach the action too early as the casing is still swelled in the chamber rather than the timing being correct to where the case is able to get out of that swelled state. That puts pressure on the extractor which can cause an action to not be as smooth as it could be. The midlength system has the timing "correct" and that is where I say "tuned."
Stoner's design was made to a certain specification as seen on the Knight's Armament rifles, and that is reflected in these newer midlength systems.
I'm not hating on the carbine system myself. I like the carbine, I shoot them, and I will probably buy another one. It's simply that when it comes to a one-gun choice, I put forward the middy.
pleaforwar
03-01-12, 00:30
Well, we know gas port size matters across the board. That isn't where I'm touching since he's looking to buy quality.
The physics in this case is sort of common sense. The tube's volume is larger and thus the impulse of the gas will be smoother. The felt recoil and the controlability of the weapon goes up due to this.
Now, with the shorter carbine gas tube the gas is said to reach the action too early as the casing is still swelled in the chamber rather than the timing being correct to where the case is able to get out of that swelled state. That puts pressure on the extractor which can cause an action to not be as smooth as it could be. The midlength system has the timing "correct" and that is where I say "tuned."
Stoner's design was made to a certain specification as seen on the Knight's Armament rifles, and that is reflected in these newer midlength systems.
I'm not hating on the carbine system myself. I like the carbine, I shoot them, and I will probably buy another one. It's simply that when it comes to a one-gun choice, I put forward the middy.
Not being combative, but for curiosity's sake where did you gather this information? I'm willing to accept that I am out of the loop with what others consider to be common sense physics, but I prefer to get my information from the source or from someone who is relaying information from a credible source.
Have you seen a quantifiable difference in wear on extractors between carbine length and midlength gas systems? Have you seen a pattern of extractors failing in carbine systems prior to their midlength counterparts? How does a swollen case put extra pressure on an extractor? Wouldn't the swelling occur at the case body rather than the rim? Are you saying that the swelling creates tighter tolerances between the case and the chamber, therefore causing more tension in extraction?
Thanks for the input.
Cheers,
Dan
Have you seen a quantifiable difference in wear on extractors between carbine length and midlength gas systems? Have you seen a pattern of extractors failing in carbine systems prior to their midlength counterparts? How does a swollen case put extra pressure on an extractor? Wouldn't the swelling occur at the case body rather than the rim? Are you saying that the swelling creates tighter tolerances between the case and the chamber, therefore causing more tension in extraction?
Extractors busting has been something I heard before I was into the AR platform. It's not something I have special sources on, but have heard ragged on here and there. Not heard anything about it in a midlength, personally.
Yes, the swelling is on the casing and not the rim. What it is, is that it is expanded in the chamber making it "stick." I can vouch for the casing being capable of sticking with my experiences with Aluminum casings in handguns. Shooting aluminum out of a tight tolerance 1911 does not not work out. They expand in the chamber moreso than brass and slightly stick. I confirmed this with a USP .45 which functioned fine, but probably only due to the fact it has an oversized chamber. The aluminum were notably more expanded than the brass upon further observation.
The timing itself being an issue was addressed in a POF video where they talk about it and present lots of flashy animations. Sure, they were selling a product so I understand they will make a gas system sound as bad as they can, except, Knight's Armament company was fortunate enough to have Stoner get with them to perfect the design. The end result appears to have been a midlenth system of sorts. In the POF presentation it was made clear that the premature extraction was a bad thing.
My source for the gas tube volume comes from Travis Haley. He speaks about the higher volume being a smoother action. Having sat through well over a hundred physics review sessions, and just some common sense, it seems to make a lot of sense.
On that note, I'm not a scientist. I don't think the information is wrong, though. I suppose I could go look for articles and things but I'm a lazy bum.
Thanks Casull.
I can't argue anything you said as I'm just not educated enough on the physics of this to do so. It sounds good though.
My biggest problem with the middy is that it just hasn't been around long enough to (or as long as the carbine anyway) to prove any significant decrease in wear. Add to that the lack of a real known (as far as I know anyway) standard in design and it makes me wary. The "felt" recoil thing didn't sell me. I've shot middys and didn't think there was any difference. Another carbine shooter next to me swore he could tell a difference.
I could be totally wrong on all of this. And if there's something I'm totally off on, please educate me.
Either way, the point to my question was to not only learn what you seemed to know/believe, but also to help the OP make a better informed decision. Hope we (read you) did that.
Nope, your spot on. The carbine system obviously works and has for a very long time. Thanks for asking questions and keeping me in check!
I personally do feel it is smoother. but it's probably not so noticeable if you have a carbine with a proper gas port size.
I will say I'm not so concerned with recoil as I am with the fact I can grip further up the hand guard or rail. To me that alone makes it worth it. You may not feel the same. My dad for instance loves to be in as tight as possible so he's fine with carbine. I think once you start getting more into the modern techniques you end up appreciating more space, though. Just my opinion to that end.
Yea, I have a couple of middys:
Noveske N4 14.5" Middy (haven't ran it yet):
http://pleaforwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/noveske.jpg
Midlength rifles are great, but don't think for a minute that you HAVE to have a midlength because carbine systems are too "rough" on internals, too much recoil, etc etc.
Thanks for the input! That Noveske is one sweet work of art.
I was an officer for 22 years and one of our department firearms instructors. Here is my suggestion.
Get a 16" light weight with mid gas system. I suggest getting a 16" gun because your going to want to change things around until you find the set up that works for you. If you get a pinned 14.5" gun you won't be able to change out the gas block and hand guard without milling/grinding off the muzzle device. it can be done but it's a pain.
Make sure you have an adjustable stock so you can make it fit you with concealed body armor and entry body armor over it. I like the Magpul CTR. Make sure it has a rubber but plate so it doesn't slip around, we tend to wear a lot of nylon.
Optic of choice but I would go with a T-1 (H-1 if you don't need NV) you can leave it on forever damn near.
If you think you need magnification go with something in a 1-4 range in a ADM or larue mount. You won't need more than 1-4 magnification. Police engagements are (nearly) always under 100 yds.
A good sling. Your going to carry it a hell of a lot more than shooting it. I like a sling I can quickly adjust from single to double point sling and tighten down if I have to crawl or climb.
White head light. I like the Gear sector 45 degree rail mount with a pistol light on it mounted to the right side front edge of the rail.
Good luck be safe,
Darkop
Darkop,
Thanks for your input! It's very much appreciated. I am glad to have someone from the field, with much experience, training, and insight to input on my mediocre post. :smile:
Yea, perimeters after shots fired, robberies, and other violent crimes is when the rifle will most likely be utilized. Obviously if I know I am going to gun fight, the handgun is inherently a defensive or secondary weapon system. Therefore, I would utilize a long gun.
A white light, in our profession, or even a home defense platform, really is a must. Positive target identification must be established before a shot should be pressed. Otherwise, we take a chance of a bad shoot, or may open ourselves for litigation.
Thanks again for your input, any further advice would be greatly appreciated.
Casull, PleaforWar, C-Grunt, Pira, and others;
Thanks for your advice and knowledge. I joined this forum for the good, no BS, and top rate advice. I like how this forum is quick not to allow, and check, people on "hypothesis" and other things like, "well, my friend said...done... had... and the such."
All of you bring up great points and I now know that either platform would, and will, serve me greatly. Just because the carbine has, and still continues, to work well, doesn't necessarily mean there isn't some more modern technology that does the job a little different. I think Travis Haley and Paul B., of BCM, said it best in their video here: http://haleystrategic.cachefly.net/carbines.mov We must be adaptive shooters and evolve our thinking and knowledge.
Again, thank you all for your time, input, and educating me to help make a more informed decision.
pleaforwar
03-02-12, 00:57
Extractors busting has been something I heard before I was into the AR platform. It's not something I have special sources on, but have heard ragged on here and there. Not heard anything about it in a midlength, personally.
Yes, the swelling is on the casing and not the rim. What it is, is that it is expanded in the chamber making it "stick." I can vouch for the casing being capable of sticking with my experiences with Aluminum casings in handguns. Shooting aluminum out of a tight tolerance 1911 does not not work out. They expand in the chamber moreso than brass and slightly stick. I confirmed this with a USP .45 which functioned fine, but probably only due to the fact it has an oversized chamber. The aluminum were notably more expanded than the brass upon further observation.
The timing itself being an issue was addressed in a POF video where they talk about it and present lots of flashy animations. Sure, they were selling a product so I understand they will make a gas system sound as bad as they can, except, Knight's Armament company was fortunate enough to have Stoner get with them to perfect the design. The end result appears to have been a midlenth system of sorts. In the POF presentation it was made clear that the premature extraction was a bad thing.
My source for the gas tube volume comes from Travis Haley. He speaks about the higher volume being a smoother action. Having sat through well over a hundred physics review sessions, and just some common sense, it seems to make a lot of sense.
On that note, I'm not a scientist. I don't think the information is wrong, though. I suppose I could go look for articles and things but I'm a lazy bum.
I'm familiar with extractors issues.
Now, as for POF making their case; these are the same guys who told me I can kick rocks because their Gen 2 billet lower wouldn't seat PMags. Their reasoning? Magpul makes out-of-spec magazines. Thanks guys, I'm glad I spent north of $200 on your stripped lower to find out it won't seat the most popular magazine on the market.
Does that mean their video is flat out BS? Of course not, I'm not taking a slippery slope approach with this because of my experience. That being said, they are far from a disinterested party and they do have an agenda.
So what can I go by? My own personal experience I guess. With the training/shooting I have had (albeit insignificant to some, extensive to some), I have yet to see a significant difference in extraction issues between carbine length and midlength AR-15's. If anyone with more in-depth knowledge on the subject wants to weigh in, I'd love to hear it.
The point I'm trying to drive in is that I have heard time and time again about theory and common sense applied to this art, and time and time again I see it refuted on the range and at work.
I will say this much, I appreciate both systems and I think we are on the same page when it comes to that.
Thanks for your contribution.
Cheers,
Dan
pleaforwar
03-02-12, 01:16
Casull, PleaforWar, C-Grunt, Pira, and others;
Thanks for your advice and knowledge. I joined this forum for the good, no BS, and top rate advice. I like how this forum is quick not to allow, and check, people on "hypothesis" and other things like, "well, my friend said...done... had... and the such."
All of you bring up great points and I now know that either platform would, and will, serve me greatly. Just because the carbine has, and still continues, to work well, doesn't necessarily mean there isn't some more modern technology that does the job a little different. I think Travis Haley and Paul B., of BCM, said it best in their video here: http://haleystrategic.cachefly.net/carbines.mov We must be adaptive shooters and evolve our thinking and knowledge.
Again, thank you all for your time, input, and educating me to help make a more informed decision.
Yes, there is definitely room to advance the platform, I won't argue that. That being considered, I am always focused more on advancing my TTP's than focusing on what is the new, hot item on the market. For the record, I'm not referring to midlengths when I say this.
Consider the argument of piston vs DI. Many people have had success with various piston systems and endorse it. For example, I have read that Pat Rogers has endorsed LWRC. I have personally witnessed Jeff Gonzales recommend LWRC. Paul Howe has his name on PWS rifles.
Compare that to the general opinion on piston rifles here at M4C and you will see a huge discrepancy of opinions. It's an absolute love/hate relationship here, but mostly hate.
Why? The piston system is an "evolution" of the AR platform, is it not? (Yes, yes, I am familiar with the inline vs. offset piston discussion)
This is where you, as a consumer, have to decide what evolutions of the rifle you feel comfortable with, and what evolutions you want to see put to the test before you make an informed purchase.
I have the utmost respect for Travis and Paul and their experience makes mine look like Albert Pujols vs. a T-ball backup, but I will never take an advertisement's word as the word of God. I come here and to other places on the web, see what the word is on a product from disinterested users, and evaluate from there. Or even better yet, I participate first hand and take notice of what other people are using, ask for their opinions, and consider the options.
As a new shooter to the civilian side of AR-15's, I advise you consider doing the same. :)
Cheers,
Dan
I have the utmost respect for Travis and Paul and their experience makes mine look like Albert Pujols vs. a T-ball backup, but I will never take an advertisement's word as the word of God. I come here and to other places on the web, see what the word is on a product from disinterested users, and evaluate from there. Or even better yet, I participate first hand and take notice of what other people are using, ask for their opinions, and consider the options.
As a new shooter to the civilian side of AR-15's, I advise you consider doing the same. :)
Well said and well taken. :smile:
By the way, the best way to determine what you want/need is to try shit out. If you have buds that have rifles in both carbine and midlength gas systems, you should try them out first. See what you like.
From a reputable manufacturer, I'd say the midlength is at least on par with carbine. Colt, BCM, etc... Don't rush into this purchase if you don't have to.
As Casull pointed out, the biggest advantage to a midlength (for most) is the extended reach you get. I happen to have short T-Rex arms. So the carbine length works great for me. Not so much for others. To really find out before you dump $$$ on a rifle, go test some out if you can.
In the end, if you buy from one of the big three (Colt, BCM, DD) you'll be gtg either way you choose as far as reliability. Just happens that midlength lends itself perfectly to the modern shooting techniques that most are using these days (myself included).
@Pleaforwar
Yeah, it's a bit weird when they say "this AR is as reliable as an AK" so simply.
I'd like to research more about the mid vs. carbine, or rather, the math. So far hearing Costa, Haley, Blah blah blah blah with instructors, and then the volume equation ideal... It seems pretty convincing.
It would be nice if a manufacturer put forward some good math. POF didn't do too bad, but that PMAG thing is pretty ridiculous... on that note, so is the HK416, and SCAR's inability to take them. Hence why Magpul came out with new mag specs.
I agree with your stance.
Failure2Stop
03-02-12, 11:05
At this point in my shooting career I would rather put on an A5 recoil system than mess with anything else in the operating system.
At this point in my shooting career I would rather put on an A5 recoil system than mess with anything else in the operating system.
Interesting point.
At this point in my shooting career I would rather put on an A5 recoil system than mess with anything else in the operating system.
I agree, OP, I have a BCM, SAM the thing is heavy, even if you dont have to carry it much, I would opt for the 16" mid, any day of the week and twice on Sunday. My SAM has been pretty much sat in the safe and only really used for the occasional longer range coyote shooting, then I still bring my middy.
I agree, OP, I have a BCM, SAM the thing is heavy, even if you dont have to carry it much, I would opt for the 16" mid, any day of the week and twice on Sunday. My SAM has been pretty much sat in the safe and only really used for the occasional longer range coyote shooting, then I still bring my middy.
MStennes
Thanks for your input!! Maybe you ought to think about selling it to a guy like me... ;-) Haha.. Can't blame me for trying. Thanks again.
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