View Full Version : New Daniel Defense upper, well sort of... What would you guys/gals do?
So I bought a new to me, used Daniel Defense upper receiver.
It was advertised as being a DD upper and from the pictures I saw, it appeared to be. Let me give you the break down of what I got in the mail:
Daniel Defense Omega-X FSP rail
Daniel Defense upper receiver
BCM/VLTOR Gunfighter Mod3 Charging Handle (can't complain about that)
Daniel Defense read A1.5 sight
Spike's Tactical Standard Phosphate HPT/MPI Tested M16 BCG
DPMS 16" 1x9" Twist, AP4 Contour (their M4 cut barrel)
Now, I knew it was coming with a Spikes Tactical BCG. I could clearly see the "Spider" laser engraved into the side of the carrier (sellers pictures), where the DD would have been, if it was a Daniel Defense That was the least of my concern. Spikes has a quality BCG, it's HPT/MPI tested and all that good stuff. It's quality just like any of the DD, BCM, LMT etc BCG's out there.
What has me annoyed is the DPMS barrel. The seller claims he bought it that way and did not know it had a DPMS barrel. He didn't seem to concerned to hear about my issue and before I could even ask for a refund he said, well I sold that upper to fund another project, the money is gone so I can't even offer you a refund, sorry.
He said he put 1,500 or so threw it, zero issues. I believe he had no issues, DPMS stuff isn't THAT bad. It's just when your expecting a DD upper, well the barrel is the heart and soul of the whole damn gun! :(
I picked up the whole upper for $525.00 dollars shipped, it's lists out at $1039.00 on DD's website.
Did not come with the DD vertical forward grip btw.
SO here is my question... I have $400~$450.00'ish set aside for optics, been saving for a Aimpoint Micro-T or maybe an EOTech XPS. I'm thinking about just using part of that money to BUY a Daniel Defense barrel and waiting on the optics. If it was one of you, what would you do? Get the DD barrel or just skip it and use the DPMS and get the optics?
I can get a basic button rifled DD barrel for $220'ish. I don't think it really matters if it CHF's or not for what I'm doing which is just weekend plink'ing and a SHTF gun. Then again maybe for just a basic plinker and a SHTF gun, the DPMS is good to go? I did put 200 rounds threw without a single failure, it's just the point of the thing. Like I said above, the barrel IS the heart of the Daniel Defense upper.
On the lower receiver end it's all decent quality too. I built that myself using a Smith and Wesson lower, full Daniel Defense LPK, a Magpul MIAD rifle grip and a Magpul CTR stock kit. Then it's got a Magpul ASAP sling attachment point on it. The gun is quality all around but that dang DPMS barrel just seems out of place!
It's like having a Porsche with a Ford Fiesta motor in it! :p
Basically you got screwed and unfortunately you have no recourse. I would get rid of the SPMS barrel and sell it to someone who thinks they are good.
Put a good barrel in it and then move on.
Sell the barrel on arfcom and get what you can out of it. You could try and get a barrel from the equipment exchange on here to help keep the cost down.
Grumpy MSG
02-29-12, 12:43
Another option available to you is to just follow your original plan, purchase your optics. Run the barrel you have for a few months. Start saving and then pick up the barrel you want a few months down the road, if a CHF barrel is really what you want, save for it. You already settled once and burned yourself, because you dealt with somebody who has lower expectations/ standards than you.
Basically you got screwed and unfortunately you have no recourse. I would get rid of the SPMS barrel and sell it to someone who thinks they are good.
Put a good barrel in it and then move on.
I totally agree, that based on the principal of the thing I did get screwed.
I did add on the cost of all the Daniel Defense parts, including the Spike's BCG and I did save a decent chunk over piecing it all together myself and even if I buy a DD CHF barrel, I'll still have saved a little over buying the complete upper. That said, it wasn't the deal it was advertised to be. :(
At least it all looks new. Nothing on the barrel, rail or upper is even scratched, dinged or dented. Still, it burns my ass a little and I don't really believe the seller didn't know. Looks like one of those well, I want this Daniel Defense rifles but if I piece it together myself, cut a few corners I can save a few dollars and have a the super-cool-operator rifle I always wanted!
I think I'm formulating a plan. This is not my first or only AR. I have a couple cheapo's too. I have a DTI (Del-ton) lower with a CMMG LPK, Magpul MOE stock, rifle grip and a 16 inch DS Arms upper with a BCM BCG. Then I also have a Bushmaster XM-15 E2S Patrolmen's Carbine with a 14.5 incher pinned and welded, Magpul stock, rifle grip and Surefire Carbine rail. Also have an EOTech 511 on it.
This Daniel Defense build was suppose to be my first high end build. I wasn't really looking to build another AR but the price was right on the upper (I thought) and I had a spare Smith and Wesson lower receiver, Magpul CTR stock and MIAD grip just sitting in the safe. Oh and I also happened to have that Daniel Defense LPK just sitting new in the bag too. Picked that and the Smith lower up for a pretty good price at a gun show a while back but had never used them for anything.
Anyway, off topic here. I was getting to my "plan". I know I want a 300 Blackout. I think I might just buy my optics now and save up some 5.56 brass then buy the needed stuff to reload .300BLK and then go get a Daniel Defense .300 Blackout barrel.
I'll still have a a couple 5.56 AR's for plinking but then I'll have a .300BLK SHTF rifle for when the politicians, er I mean zombie's come! :dirol:
You can probably sell that barrel, and not spend a huge shit ton of money to get you something quality. A DD CHF, BCM, or any of the FN CHF everybody is selling now would be a kick ass addition to an otherwise high quality upper.
Throw 'er up on the EE at TOS or something, and pick out a new barrel. You're still coming in at far below the average DD upper...
Basically you got screwed and unfortunately you have no recourse. I would get rid of the SPMS barrel and sell it to someone who thinks they are good.
Put a good barrel in it and then move on.
You would probably be well served with a standard (non-hammer forged) BCM or DD barrel. Keep saving those pennies and buy a quality optic after you get a good barrel.
Just about every family has a "Black Sheep" somewhere in their family tree! So yours has a DPMS barrel, no big deal. For what you want to use the rifle for, I would just shoot it. Only thing I would change is to swap out the Spikes BCG with the BCM BCG you already have. See, the "Bastard Son" is getting better already!:dance3:
Another option available to you is to just follow your original plan, purchase your optics. Run the barrel you have for a few months. Start saving and then pick up the barrel you want a few months down the road, if a CHF barrel is really what you want, save for it. You already settled once and burned yourself, because you dealt with somebody who has lower expectations/ standards than you.
I agree with this. I'd also try to squeeze a partial refund from the seller as well, atleast it will make you feel a little better. That combined with what you make off the dpms barrel, will get you close to the barrel you want. All in all, you still did get a pretty good deal though so I wouldn't sweat it too much.
polymorpheous
02-29-12, 14:42
Just about every family has a "Black Sheep" somewhere in their family tree! So yours has a DPMS barrel, no big deal. For what you want to use the rifle for, I would just shoot it. Only thing I would change is to swap out the Spikes BCG with the BCM BCG you already have. See, the "Bastard Son" is getting better already!:dance3:
Swapping BCGs would accomplish nothing.
OP, the DD button rifled barrel you are looking at, does it have a FSB installed? The ones I've seen do not.
You have a railed forend with a cut out for a FSB correct?
My advice...
Sell the barrel, buy a new one.
After further thought,here's option #2. Take your Del-Ton/CMMG/DS Arms package and put that up for sale/auction. Make sure you put the Spikes BCG in it because the Spider logo rocks! Now the next part will cost you a little money but trust me it will pay back in huge dividends. Buy the cheapest Red Dot Sight you can find with the crappiest mount and put that on the Del-Ton. Get one of those vertical grips with a bipod sticking out the bottom and put that on it too. For the final touch add some oversized Tacticool flashlight the size of a small toilet plunger to it. Make sure everything is made in China. You guys can laugh, but there is no doubt in my mind that there is a large segment of the AR community that consider this build as "good as a Colt, BCM,DD,etc". To them it would be like getting one of Clapton's guitars. The Holy Friggin Grail! The money you would make off of this would pay for a DD 300 Blackout URG and an Aimpoint PRO or Micro. Don't believe me? Just go look at Grant's Thread on "Awesomeness". I rest my case.
just shoot that barrel till you wear it out or it does something unacceptable. then replace it with what you want...
Why cant you file a claim? Did you pay by check or money order?
Ill never pay that way for that reason.
I would definately sell the barrel and pick up a DD barrel. DD barrels are very high quality. Well everything DD is. "Im a huge DD fan by the way!! :D" Not only that, Im just not a fan of DPMS either.
lethal dose
03-04-12, 19:19
any chance of the seller making it right? i mean, that is crappy. with that said, you got an O.K. deal (understanding that the dpms barrel is garbage). what i would do is ream the chamber to a true 5.56 and shoot TONS of 55gr ammo through it at classes. if you want a new barrel, that's another story. you very well may be able to recoup some of your loss by selling the dpms on a forum where people appreciate trash like that. at the end of the day, the chances of it shooting 55 grain ammo well are pretty great... i just prefer the insurance i get when purchasing a quality barrel.
If it happened to me I'd try and get my money back.
If that failed I'd just shoot it a bunch and see how it works. If it doesn't work out then I'd change the barrel.
I don't buy used very often. My DD upper cost me around $800 and it's well worth it. My complete DD rifle I bought for under $1100. I don't see the benefit of buying used.
Another option available to you is to just follow your original plan, purchase your optics. Run the barrel you have for a few months. Start saving and then pick up the barrel you want a few months down the road, if a CHF barrel is really what you want, save for it. You already settled once and burned yourself, because you dealt with somebody who has lower expectations/ standards than you.
This is what I would do as well. Just move forward with your build plans and later on purchase a DD,BCM barrrel from the equipment exchange here. After you have your new barrel, sell the DPMS to recoup some of the money you spent to replace the barrel. I would get the barrel checked by a decent gunsmith to make sure it is in spec to shoot 5.56 first or only shoot 223 until you replace the barrel.
While I am a huge fan of DD and agree that you got screwed in that deal, I would just run the DPMS barrel if I were you. Shoot it for 6 months or a year until you save up enough to buy a DD barrel. If the DPMS barrel gives you issues, replace it sooner, but I bet it'll be fine until you can get something better.
justin_247
03-05-12, 10:38
If you bought this from an internet forum, I would approach the moderators with the issue and either get them actively involved in the issue or attempt to have the individual seller banned from the forum.
Also, I would keep copies of the original advertisement and all correspondence with the seller.
If you bought this from an internet forum, I would approach the moderators with the issue and either get them actively involved in the issue or attempt to have the individual seller banned from the forum.
Also, I would keep copies of the original advertisement and all correspondence with the seller.
I concur with the above. The way I read what you're saying is that the seller false advertised and then "dodged" the issue once you contacted him. Very few people are going to sell a shady product and then admit to it once caught. They will continue to dodge the issue until you go away.
If it was an honest mistake on the seller's part, that's ok too, he should just get some mandated time to go back and figure out what he is attempting to sell before being authorized to sell again.
I sold a DPMS, I advertised it as such. To each their own though.
I would be a upset if it happened to me. The good thing is a lot of people actually like DPMS (had a guy at the range laugh at my Daniels Defense because he had a quality DPMS :rolleyes: ) and you can probably sell the barrel relatively easy. That will put you most of the way to a new DD barrel. Go for it and complete your upper. Hope things work out for you.
Swapping BCGs would accomplish nothing.
OP, the DD button rifled barrel you are looking at, does it have a FSB installed? The ones I've seen do not.
You have a railed forend with a cut out for a FSB correct?
My advice...
Sell the barrel, buy a new one.
These barrels are found all over. Pk firearms has them with FSB for $220.
LoneWolfRonin
03-10-12, 11:45
Sorry to hear about that bum deal. Get a DD barrel. They are great.
Buy your optic. Shoot this one with DPMS barrel. Save your $ for your 300BLK Barrel. Make the switch when you can afford it.
Follow that plan you came up with. It is as good a solution as any other ones given here.
ETA: the idea to have it reamed to try 556 is a good one
--
This sort of thing happened to me when I bought a rifle last year. Advertized as Spikes with everything checking out except the bcg. The guy did pretty much the same thing you described so I just said F it and bought a Spikes bcg for $100 and I have a $50 spare DPMS semi bcg sitting in the safe. It was a good deal even if you tack on $50-$100 so I don't mind, but I know what you mean about feeling pissed that someone was dishonest with you.
You should sell the barrel for $100 loss to pick up a DD and you still got a pretty good deal at $625 for the upper. Sell the DT/CMMG/DSA with the Bushmaster bcg, move the BCM into the DD, move the Spikes bcg to the Bushy. Check headspace. You'll have enough for an optic for your high quality rifle and a decent back-up.
The_War_Wagon
03-10-12, 18:40
Basically you got screwed and unfortunately you have no recourse. I would get rid of the SPMS barrel and sell it to someone who thinks they are good.
Put a good barrel in it and then move on.
Sell the barrel on arfcom and get what you can out of it. You could try and get a barrel from the equipment exchange on here to help keep the cost down.
I agree with this. I'd also try to squeeze a partial refund from the seller as well, atleast it will make you feel a little better.
If you bought this from an internet forum, I would approach the moderators with the issue and either get them actively involved in the issue or attempt to have the individual seller banned from the forum.
Also, I would keep copies of the original advertisement and all correspondence with the seller.
Lot of good advice here - these in particular stand out.
And definitely get a QUALITY barrel.
I know the thread is a little older but I thought I would give you good folks an update!
So I did end up getting a $50.00 dollar refund from the seller. That is all I will say about that. I'm shocked I finally got that. Turned into a mess on a forum before I got that though. Then the thread got locked and the admin removed it when he found out I had the money. Basically no one who didn't see the thread will know the guys shady now. Nice huh?
Oh well.
So moving on! I ended up removing the Daniel Defense upper receiver from the complete upper and put on a DS Arms upper I had laying around. Probably all the same stuff but hey, I wanted to keep the DD upper.
I then ended up selling the complete upper to a friend who did not care that it was or wasn't a complete DD upper. I got $25.00 more then I paid so with the refunded $50, I now had $600.00 in my pocket.
I bought a Daniel Defense 1/7 16 inch CHF barrel and a M4-A1 RIS II and a DD BCG and now I have this:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/Block%20II%20M4-A1/DSC09190Medium.jpg
I know it's hard to tell from the photo but the only main part on that gun that is NOT DD is the lower receiver. Even the lower has a full DD LPK in it. Oh and I know you can't see it but it has a MATECH rear BUIS and a Knights Armament Co. Mk18 front BUIS in taupe/FDE color.
Thing is deadly accurate too! Couldn't be happier now.
I'd demand my money back. I would sue his ass for fraud, misrep, breach of k if no refund.
Bizzarolibe
05-04-12, 11:51
I know the thread is a little older but I thought I would give you good folks an update!
So I did end up getting a $50.00 dollar refund from the seller. That is all I will say about that. I'm shocked I finally got that. Turned into a mess on a forum before I got that though. Then the thread got locked and the admin removed it when he found out I had the money. Basically no one who didn't see the thread will know the guys shady now. Nice huh?
Oh well.
So moving on! I ended up removing the Daniel Defense upper receiver from the complete upper and put on a DS Arms upper I had laying around. Probably all the same stuff but hey, I wanted to keep the DD upper.
I then ended up selling the complete upper to a friend who did not care that it was or wasn't a complete DD upper. I got $25.00 more then I paid so with the refunded $50, I now had $600.00 in my pocket.
I bought a Daniel Defense 1/7 16 inch CHF barrel and a M4-A1 RIS II and a DD BCG and now I have this:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/Block%20II%20M4-A1/DSC09190Medium.jpg
I know it's hard to tell from the photo but the only main part on that gun that is NOT DD is the lower receiver. Even the lower has a full DD LPK in it. Oh and I know you can't see it but it has a MATECH rear BUIS and a Knights Armament Co. Mk18 front BUIS in taupe/FDE color.
Thing is deadly accurate too! Couldn't be happier now.
That's a sick rifle. But I agree with some of the other posters...you definitely could have sued him if you had wanted to. It's super easy; you just have to make one trip to the courthouse with 35$ and a thirst for justice :D
Have you actually ever sued anyone in small claims? I did once, I won by default judgement, I have yet to ever see a penny.
That said, I came out OK! I ended up coming out $75.00 ahead and I got to keep the stripped Daniel Defense upper for my build. My friend was happy as hell to get the upper and thinks DPMS is quality. He kept saying the SEAL's use them blah blah, who knows?! :)
OHH!!! and I also got to keep the DD A1.5 rear BUIS. That was another $60.00 retail.
Anyway I do have a couple other pictures and a little more to the store about the new gun.
As I said, I bought the upper because it had the FSP setup that uses the A2 front sight. From the side, that setup is badass. I tried adding optics though and hated it. The irons were in the way so I bought a different Aimpoint riser mount so the irons were in the lower 1/3rd and still didn't like it. Then I bought a MATECH rear sight thinking if I went flip, it would help. No, having the A2 in the way of my Red-dot annoyed me so I sold the rail which took like 5 minutes to do (very popular and hard to get right now) and bought the non-FSP version. Here are some of the original build pictures step by step.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/AR%20Rifles/DSC09120Medium.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/AR%20Rifles/DSC09136Medium.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/AR%20Rifles/DSC09175Medium.jpg
Only picture you can see my front sight in:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/IMG_20120428_133026.jpg
And then what you saw above.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/Block%20II%20M4-A1/DSC09190Medium.jpg
Never actually used that MIAD grip though. I went back to the black A2 trying to make it look more Block II. Now I'm trying to get a B5 or LMT SOPMOD stock. Looks like I just found a SOPMOD too!
I think it's funny that they'd spend the extra on a DD receiver and rail and then throw a dpms barrel in there
Also I have a DD along with their sights, and my logos are MUCH more subdued than the ones on yours. Mine look more like the text on the adm mount
I like the looks and feel of the Block II guns, but the obsession some of the guys on TOS have with trying to match a gun from a pic gets ridiculous to me. You could see some pics of my DD Block II in my threads if my Photobucket bandwidth hadn't been exceeded (guess people like my pics).
Anyway, beautiful rifle you have and glad you got the deal sorted out. Can you tell me how you reach that light switch?
Edit, I was able to save and attach 2 pics before Photobucket locked me out.
I think it's funny that they'd spend the extra on a DD receiver and rail and then throw a dpms barrel in there
Also I have a DD along with their sights, and my logos are MUCH more subdued than the ones on yours. Mine look more like the text on the adm mount
Maybe you have a little oil over your DD markings? I've noticed when they get a little wet with oil, they fade and are hard to see. That was right after I cleaned up some excess oil with some rubbing alcohol so they really popped then.
I like the looks and feel of the Block II guns, but the obsession some of the guys on TOS have with trying to match a gun from a pic gets ridiculous to me. You could see some pics of my DD Block II in my threads if my Photobucket bandwidth hadn't been exceeded (guess people like my pics).
Anyway, beautiful rifle you have and glad you got the deal sorted out. Can you tell me how you reach that light switch?
I would like to see your pictures! =)
Also, the pressure switch... I use the Magpul style of shooting. The TD grip is more of a very large hand stop for me then a vert grip. When want the light, I just grab the rifle behind the TD grip and twist my wrist a little to adjust my grip, my fingers wrap under and up the side of the rail and land on the buttons.
I do not actually USE that light. It's just eye candy for the photo's. It's normally off the rifle 90% of the time.
I have a black SOPMOD stock on the way now and I'm working on getting a real ELCAN or maybe a 553 and a replica PEQ-15 next. Considering when it comes right down to it, we are building replica Block II guns to begin with, I have no problems using a replica PEQ-15 to fill out the looks as I really wouldn't need it anyway. Would rather spend that $1000~1500.00 on ammo or another build!
Going to finish this one first though. At some point I need to get my barrel cut down to 14.5 and pinned and welded or buy another 14.5 barrel. I actually already have the KAC flash hider, a spare DD barrel nut and a spare DD low profile gas block. If I just buy a 14.5, I can send those parts out and have ADCO pin and weld and the RIS II will slip over the gas block and into place just fine.
Then I can just take the 16 inch DD and put the A2 back on, the delta pack back on and mount it to an upper receiver, maybe another DD upper and I also have a spare set of MOE hand guards. Could sell it at a complete DD MOE upper and re-coup a good chunk of change.
Ga Red Devil
05-04-12, 15:59
Anyway I do have a couple other pictures and a little more to the store about the new gun.
As I said, I bought the upper because it had the FSP setup that uses the A2 front sight. From the side, that setup is badass. I tried adding optics though and hated it. The irons were in the way so I bought a different Aimpoint riser mount so the irons were in the lower 1/3rd and still didn't like it. Then I bought a MATECH rear sight thinking if I went flip, it would help. No, having the A2 in the way of my Red-dot annoyed me so I sold the rail which took like 5 minutes to do (very popular and hard to get right now) and bought the non-FSP version. Here are some of the original build pictures step by step.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/AR%20Rifles/DSC09120Medium.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/AR%20Rifles/DSC09136Medium.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/AR%20Rifles/DSC09175Medium.jpg
Only picture you can see my front sight in:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/IMG_20120428_133026.jpg
And then what you saw above.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/Block%20II%20M4-A1/DSC09190Medium.jpg
Never actually used that MIAD grip though. I went back to the black A2 trying to make it look more Block II. Now I'm trying to get a B5 or LMT SOPMOD stock. Looks like I just found a SOPMOD too!
I thought the look was bad ass as well. Unfortunately, looking bad ass did NOT make ME shoot better. Out of curiosity did you try the setup with any other optics? I wanted to sort of re-create the LAV signature series DDm4 for myself. And, yours is damn near it. Glad you got somewhat of the satisfaction you wanted.
Glad to hear you got it sorted out Roadblock.
So now you have a Dan Wesson, right? :p At least that's what I call my DD upper on a S&W lower (that also has a DD LPK).
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