View Full Version : what is more important for a HD/nightstand pistol - light or night sights?
GrandPooba
02-29-12, 14:42
Assuming you could only get one, would you prefer a rail mounted light or night sights, and why?
polymorpheous
02-29-12, 14:46
If you have a quality functioning rail mounted light, why would you need night sights?
F-Trooper05
02-29-12, 14:53
Light, of course. No reason not to have both though.
Another vote for a light. That way you can identify your target in pitch darkness before you pull the trigger. This is especially important if you have other family members who could be moving around.
GrandPooba
02-29-12, 15:01
what if I already have a handheld tac light?
and what if the lighting situation is that the bad guy is in a lit area and I am in a darkened area? I can see him easily but I can't see my sights. Would you activate the weapon light in order to see the sights in this situation?
polymorpheous
02-29-12, 15:06
Try doing a reload with a handheld light.
As for your second query, yes I would use the light. If your target is illuminated you should see the sillouette of your sights fine.
Guns-up.50
02-29-12, 15:10
what if I already have a handheld tac light?
and what if the lighting situation is that the bad guy is in a lit area and I am in a darkened area? I can see him easily but I can't see my sights. Would you activate the weapon light in order to see the sights in this situation?
The world is full of "what ifs" what if the intruder is bullet proof. In the end of the day a light is more important than night sights for shooting in darkness. Night sights are great and if you can afford a good pistol and a $200+ light than you should be able to afford a good set of night sights. Seeing your sights cant mean shit if you cant ID you target/see. Assuming your are speaking of home defense situation10-15 feet may be your max range, you (we) should be able to point shoot that distance.
good luck
R3V3LATIONS
02-29-12, 15:24
+1 for weapon light. Free's up the other hand to make that emergency phone call with a cell phone to bring in the cavalry (HD), open/close/secure doors, turn on light switches within your house (for HD) and, probably most importantly, keep both hands on the firearm for a good grip. The backlight from the light will let you know where your sights are, but as mentioned, if in HD you probably won't be engaging any targets in your house farther than 15 ft (unless you have a big house). In any regard, good luck and stay safe.
In the end of the day a light is more important than night sights for shooting in darkness. Seeing your sights cant mean shit if you cant ID you target/see. Assuming your are speaking of home defense situation10-15 feet may be your max range, you (we) should be able to point shoot that distance.
good luck
This^^
As stated before the light is the first thing you should buy next to mags and training.
I've cleared my house after a few suspicious bumps in the night and realize VERY quickly how important a light is. Lesson learned, I need to get my ass into a low/no light class.
My P226 has night sights but when the light is on you can't even see the dots so at this point the tritium is only good for locating my 226 when there's no light.
I will reiterate that you do not shot unless you can ID the target and the best way to do this is with a good light. Today's lights are bright as **** to say the least which will help tip the odds in your favor.
A TLR-1s is more important to me than night sights.
EzGoingKev
02-29-12, 17:32
I have a Tritium front sight and plain rear sight. I can pick up the front sight in the dark fine but thing I notice is that as soon as I activate my x300 the front sight is just black. Makes wonder why I spent the extra money on a Tritium front sight.
I posted this in another thread, but here is a video from my GoPro head cam during a night time house clearing class I did recently. It gives you a good idea of the differnce the light makes and how much they can light up a dark house.
If you can have both night sights and a good WML, that's great. If you can only have one, pick the light for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le-_FFSm9Yg
one question i have is will a weapon light illuminate a fiber optic front sight (which is the only one i care about)
i'm planning on swapping out my vtac sights on my m&p for the 10-8 sights and was wondering if i should go night sight or fiber on the front sight.
it is a multi purpose gun... bedside, range, competition, and occasional carry(w/o light)
crazymoose
02-29-12, 18:49
Light, no question. I'd go so far as to say that, at HD distances, I'd rather have a gun with a light and no sights whatsoever than no light and night sights. That's not to say that I'm advocating point shooting, I'm just hammering home how important target ID is, as well as the possible advantage you might gain from blinding the target with a very bright light in the dark.
If money is tight, buy the light now, buy the night sights later.
Much depends on your own personal situation. I am alone most of the time, so there should not be anyone else in my home, so I would rather not advertise where I am with a light, and stick to my night sights that came on my Sig P220. With my eyes adjusted to the dark when woke up during the night, I can see shapes very well. If she is home, I just reach over, and if she is not in bed, I just roll over and go back to sleep. Obviously, if you have kids or other people in the house, it is a totally different situation. The night sights on the gun also allow me to see exactly where it is in the middle of the night, and I also keep a very bright flashlight next to the bed as a backup if necessary.
CumbiaDude
03-01-12, 02:28
Best to worst
Pistol light with night sights and separate light in pocket
Pistol light with night sights
Separate light with night sights
Pistol light with standard sights
Separate light with standard sights
Night sights and no light.
Standard sights and no light.
No sights and no light :D
No weapon!!
Much depends on your own personal situation. I am alone most of the time, so there should not be anyone else in my home, so I would rather not advertise where I am with a light
This is a good point. Leaving the light on constantly is not always a good idea as it can tell the threat exactly where you are. It depends on if you plan on staying in one place or if you are going to try clearing the house. While you can operate the momentary switch on the weapon light it is a bit awkward, but so is manipulating a handheld light and operating the gun with a single hand if you haven't practiced it. I really don't think that a weapon light or night sights are necessary (if you have a handheld flashlight that you can easily manipulate with one hand) but if having to choose between the two I would definitely go for the weapon light.
Def a WML. I suggest the OP (others too) get some real training. Very important to understand how your light and sights will look at o'dark 30. If your budget allows get NS but def a light and some training.
Get both. If you can only afford one, get the light.
For a HD weapon there is no reason not to have both. Is it really worth relying on a weapon without both? Obviously you will not have your light on very much, and when its not lighting something up its a good idea to be able to still get a sight pic...
montanadave
03-01-12, 08:16
My nightstand gun is a .45 auto with night sights and a rail-mounted TLR-2 (light/laser). With a Surefire light sitting next to it.
If I ever (god forbid) need to get off a round inside my house, I damn sure want to know EXACTLY what I'm shooting at and I want every advantage in hitting what I'm aiming at.
and if I may add. FO sights IMO are not the best choice for an HD gun or CCW gun. Get sights that will withstand harsh treatment and not be easily damaged.
i would definately get the light, You need to be able to identify the threat before you shoot
I posted this in another thread, but here is a video from my GoPro head cam during a night time house clearing class I did recently. It gives you a good idea of the differnce the light makes and how much they can light up a dark house.
If you can have both night sights and a good WML, that's great. If you can only have one, pick the light for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le-_FFSm9Yg
It appeared to me that you were using a weapon mounted light in this video, am I correct? What happened to it mid-way through your run when it shut down? What make/model was it? Also, what model Glock were you running? Very nice video by the way.
Weapon mounted light AND a tertiary light. A light with the gun that works when you need to reload, and a light you can use without having to train a muzzle at where you're looking.
If you have to decide on cost, you're probably not living in a mansion somewhere with cavernous internal spaces. Any shooting will occur in close range, range so close bothering with a sight picture is useless.
ROUTEMICHIGAN
03-02-12, 01:32
One is none... as others have said, try to swing both-- in my experience, a good set of night sights is invaluable. You don't need to get the latest $300 Surefire torch. And reading OP's post #5, try to take a low/no light course-- Surefire Institute courses are great. The instructors will show you how to properly deploy different lights and you can determine what you really need-- weapon mounted, handheld, both? Simply having the gizmos doesn't help if you don't know how to night fight and properly employ those gizmos.
Best to worst
Pistol light with night sights and separate light in pocket
Pistol light with night sights
Separate light with night sights
Pistol light with standard sights
Separate light with standard sights
Night sights and no light.
Standard sights and no light.
No sights and no light :D
No weapon!!
Don't totally disagree with ya. But I'd go with a weapon mounted light and standard sights before I went with a separate light with night sights. Just my opinion. Target identification is number one. Always. And the ability to reload is a tie with that. Not saying you'll need to throw two mags worth at a bad guy, but what if your first pull just goes click and immediate action doesn't clear it?
WML as you'll see the sights and not the POA
Here is my opinion. Night sights are great, but they are not needed. If you can have them get them. I will also add I personally only prefer tritium on my front sight, but that is just me.
I would agree that a flashlight in the dark is more important. Through training in the dark I have found that night sights do not give that much advantage over standard sights. Here is my point, and what I have found to be true. If you can see a dark silhouette maybe 10 ft away, you should be able to see a silhouette of your gun and pull of point shooting. Now night sights would give you more precision in this situation, but you do not even no precisely what you are shooting at since it is a blurr so it almost defeats the point.
I guess what I am saying is I have found that night sights are great under a very certain lighting. If it goes brighter then that, they do not do anything for you, if it goes darker, they are useless because you cannot see your target. On the other hand, a light can be handy in all lighting and also has other uses.
It appeared to me that you were using a weapon mounted light in this video, am I correct? What happened to it mid-way through your run when it shut down? What make/model was it? Also, what model Glock were you running? Very nice video by the way.
Thanks. To make a long story short, I've been thinking about moving from my SigP229 .40, to a 9mm polymer pistol for EDC. I decided to shoot my brother in law's Glock 19 for most of this class to see how I liked it. My TLR-1s weapon light wouldn't fit the glock rail, so I borrowed someones weapon mounted light that would fit the Glock (the WML was an Insight i believe?). The damn thing fell off the gun half way through the shoothouse!! I had to transition to my handheld light (not a big deal really), and finished with that.
CumbiaDude
03-02-12, 19:08
... I'd go with a weapon mounted light and standard sights before I went with a separate light with night sights.You're right, all the weapon-light options should probably go before the separate lights, all the night-sights go before blacked out, etc.
The basic idea of "more is better" still shines through, though :) I agree that being able to reload is definitely better than having to fumble with something in your hands ;)
one? eat eggs for a month and youll save enough to get top of the line for both. Seriously, eggs, 1 piece of fruit and a bag of frozen veggies for a month, you will have more money and probably lean up a bit.
tlr-1 and trit front post should be satisfactory for all your needs. Trit sights make a huge difference, but it doesnt matter if you cant see your target. You could get a g2 w tnvc led insert and learn to use it with a pistol.
Just throwing options out.
one? eat eggs for a month and youll save enough to get top of the line for both. Seriously, eggs, 1 piece of fruit and a bag of frozen veggies for a month, you will have more money and probably lean up a bit.
That's what I eat anyway! When I'm good the wife lets me have steak :cool:
Seriously OP, x300 would get my vote. IDing your target is of the utmost importance, and I would guess in most HD scenarios you wouldn't even have time to line up your sights. I agree on secondary light...I have a G2X and love it as well.
TacMedic556
03-07-12, 20:44
LIGHT.
So you can identify your target and prevent shooting a family member or housemate.
Its all good to have a little glowing dot or three, but if you can't see what you need to poke holes in, what good is the gun.
Once you have the light, you'll see the outline of your front sight post just fine.
North Dakota Shooter
03-07-12, 21:04
I have a light on mine, so I say light
StrikerFired
03-07-12, 22:00
Best to worst
Pistol light with night sights and separate light in pocket
Pistol light with night sights
Separate light with night sights
Pistol light with standard sights
Separate light with standard sights
Night sights and no light.
Standard sights and no light.
No sights and no light :D
No weapon!!
Agree 100%!!! And if you don't already, get to a well reviewed (ie, a good) shooting school and take a low light/no light shooting class. Learning to use weapon mounted and handheld lights is a whole other world then just buying them. After I took my first class I try to take a low/no light course once a year.
Alaskapopo
03-07-12, 22:06
If you have a quality functioning rail mounted light, why would you need night sights?
There are plenty of times when you can see your target but not conventional sights where using your weapon light would give away your position and your advantage. Situations such as when your threat is back lit. Both are needed in my opinion.
Pat
Alaskapopo
03-07-12, 22:10
and if I may add. FO sights IMO are not the best choice for an HD gun or CCW gun. Get sights that will withstand harsh treatment and not be easily damaged.
I really like tru glo tritium fiber optic night sights. Yes they are less durable however if you do damage them you still have a usable sight until you can replace the fiber optic tube which is easy. The advantage with these sights is they are so much more visible in out door shooting situations. Its 100% better than conventional night sights.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20auto%20pistols/Glock17Dutygun.jpg
I don't know why threads like this exist. Yes, if you have to choose, a light for target id is more essential. And those who say that this is all you need have to realize that ever tool has its purpose. Night sights are very useful in conditions with some ambient light where the threat may be identified without exposing yourself to the negative consequences of white light.
Also, I am a firm believer of weapon mounted lights but, for anything other than home defense, a handheld must be carried.
As to the poster who claims that reloads with a handheld are impossible, not true. With sufficient training and practice, it is very doable. If your hands are big enough, you can even retain the flashlight as you perform the action. Anyone who carries needs to learn how to do this since either you are carrying w/o a weapon mounted light or, if you carry with a weapon mounted light, it can go down.
Silly topic. Get both
Alaskapopo
03-08-12, 00:27
I don't know why threads like this exist. Yes, if you have to choose, a light for target id is more essential. And those who say that this is all you need have to realize that ever tool has its purpose. Night sights are very useful in conditions with some ambient light where the threat may be identified without exposing yourself to the negative consequences of white light.
Also, I am a firm believer of weapon mounted lights but, for anything other than home defense, a handheld must be carried.
As to the poster who claims that reloads with a handheld are impossible, not true. With sufficient training and practice, it is very doable. If your hands are big enough, you can even retain the flashlight as you perform the action. Anyone who carries needs to learn how to do this since either you are carrying w/o a weapon mounted light or, if you carry with a weapon mounted light, it can go down.
Silly topic. Get both
Very true however sometimes people try to talk themselves out of spending money.
Pat
Light is a must have. You can get away with the black sights so long you have a good light source.
Kyle Defoor made a really good point when he explained that you can still easily see the outline of your sights with ambient lighting. Night sights aren't a must have on a pistol for me anymore.
Alaskapopo
03-08-12, 13:06
Light is a must have. You can get away with the black sights so long you have a good light source.
Kyle Defoor made a really good point when he explained that you can still easily see the outline of your sights with ambient lighting. Night sights aren't a must have on a pistol for me anymore.
The more visible your sights are the faster you will be able to shoot. If you can barely see your sights you will not be as fast as if the stand out sharply.
Pat
The more visible your sights are the faster you will be able to shoot. If you can barely see your sights you will not be as fast as if the stand out sharply.
Pat
Right on brother.
Eta - In addition to faster threat acquisition, I wanted to add a scenario to add to the discussion. Consider a home defense situation. You are married with no children and your wife sleeps next to you in your bedroom. You hear. Window break and grab your pistol and guide your wife to your predesignated place (obviously not in the direct line of sight of the door. Your room is pitch black and while he rest of the house is lights out for the most part, you have left lights on to give the impression that someone is home (as a deterrent) and to backlight any potential intruders at locations to give you the advantage.
So as the bad guys open your door, they are backlit enough to give you a good target without flooding your room and giving away your position. Your sights are now relatively useless unless they are night sights. Point shoot at this distance, yeah but depending on your training and surrounding structures, sighted fire (or something in the middle) is beneficial. Use the light? Well you just lost your advantage and the other bad guys have a better idea of where you are if they don't actually see you by now.
Just a rough, made-up example that I think the average homeowner can relate to. Again, night sights are just another for the toolbox. You can get the job done with a lot less but every tool that you are trained on can be a force multiplier if used appropriately.
Battle*Hound
03-08-12, 17:55
Assuming you could only get one, would you prefer a rail mounted light or night sights, and why?
Light without question. :confused:
The more visible your sights are the faster you will be able to shoot. If you can barely see your sights you will not be as fast as if the stand out sharply.
Pat
I agree with this. Let me ask this, who has done night training and simulated the loss of your light and without night sights? If you have you know that you can't see your sights at all. Do you know what happens? You point shoot because that's all you can do. Even if your light goes down, you still have a threat to neutralize. You have to press on. My point is why handcuff yourself. Your light might work every time, but why not plan for it not to. I'd rather have night sights and not use them, than need them and not have them. If a real situation happens, I want every advantage I can get.
If you don't want night sights, don't get them. Pretty simple. But, with all due respect, I could give Kyle Defoor and his running mates sling shots and a bag of rocks, throw them into the dark and they would still find a way do their jobs. Personally I'm not quite that dialed in. Maybe that's just me though.
I agree with this. Let me ask this, who has done night training and simulated the loss of your light and without night sights? If you have you know that you can't see your sights at all. Do you know what happens? You point shoot because that's all you can do. Even if your light goes down, you still have a threat to neutralize. You have to press on. My point is why handcuff yourself. Your light might work every time, but why not plan for it not to. I'd rather have night sights and not use them, than need them and not have them. If a real situation happens, I want every advantage I can get.
I agree 100% with this. I have done a little bit of low light and NO light shooting and training, and trying to pick out any semblance of sights in the dark is almost impossible. Point shooting can be effective if the threat is close, but there are areas in my home where the shooting distance could be longer than I would feel comfortable point shooting, especially with other people in the house. If I'm going to shoot my gun in the house, I definitely want to know where my bullet is going and night sights can offer a real advantage in this area if you don't have a light for some reason. Even if you have a light, night sights are worth the money in my opinion.
One very real use I get out of my night sights is that I can instantly orient to the gun in total darkness.
I keep my nightstand pistol (which is also my duty pistol) just out of reach near the bed. This forces me to be awake and consciously reaching for the gun to pick it up.
I've worked 22 out of the past 25 years on some sort of night shift. I have become a huge advocate for the use of tritium sights on defensive pistols due to my experiences in working in the dark for so long.
A proper home defense set-up includes at least the handgun and a handheld light, best kit includes the pistol, WML, handheld light, night sights, and training.
you wont know how much night sights help until you get them. Inside on a rainy/cloudy day, its diffucult and takes a long time to find and align the sights. trit sights just pop right out and make it quick as a sunny day.
$200 can get you meprolights and a tlr-1. If you are really on a budget thats the way I'd go, throw in a g2 for a cheap but good handheld ($25-$30?). If you cant swing that how do you get ammo to practice or pay for internet? Just putting things in perspective from my narrow view, although I really dont know your situation. Going by what I see from people I know, they spend all kinds of money on bullshit then try to skimp on stuff that counts.
Punisher1336
03-08-12, 23:34
Another vote for a light. That way you can identify your target in pitch darkness before you pull the trigger. This is especially important if you have other family members who could be moving around..
This really says it all.
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