View Full Version : Texas Navy's New Gunboats
NinjaMedic
02-29-12, 23:26
My google-fu may be weak but I don't remember seeing this discussed. Texas DPS bought 6 36ft "patrol" boats with 3x300hp outboards and 4-6xM240B. Thats a whole lot of shut the **** up . . .
Here is one set of photos:
http://www.southwestbordersheriffs.com/2012/01/texas-dps-new-36-ft-patrol-gunboat.html
NinjaMedic
02-29-12, 23:34
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/402724_276061389133154_194990237240270_680544_2069344074_n.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/428110_276075639131729_194990237240270_680561_1278614601_n.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/6507138597_ee36a708e3_b.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/t1largtexasboatjpb.jpg
Between these pics and the ops the DPS guys get to run on the border... starting to think I should've applied south of the Red River!
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-01-12, 00:37
But you have to leave it on the trailer to patrol the highway?
Why the highway patrol? Seems like a Coast Guard or a state police function.
Cool boat though. Gotta get a video of them doing a gun run with someone skiing behind it.
Just need a M2 to poke big holes in things and an M134 minigun to really get people to put their heads down.
=
NinjaMedic
03-01-12, 00:58
Why the highway patrol? Seems like a Coast Guard or a state police function.
They (DPS) are the state police. I think "BROWN WATER NAVY" had too many racial connotations . . .
NinjaMedic
03-01-12, 01:00
Just need a M2 to poke big holes in things and an M134 minigun to really get people to put their heads down.
=
It also carries 2 Barrett .50's for anti-material purposes along with at least 1 40mm launcher (unk if it comes with anything fun like HE, doubt it). I think they were worried about the copper wiring for the M134 disappearing at night . . .
Reagans Rascals
03-01-12, 01:13
rule #1: Don't mess with Texas
rule#2: Don't EVER mess with Texas
Judging by the lack of Mk19s, they did not have the idiots at Red Jacket build these for them...
rule #1: Don't mess with Texas
rule#2: Don't EVER mess with Texas
I agree with this.
I like it. Simple, yet not too under-stated.
I suppose it'll do.
I would have added some more guns, though.
I suppose it'll do.
I would have added some more guns, though.
At that rate, why not just ask the Naval Special Warfare guys if they would sell them a couple of the old Mark V Special Operations Craft?
Honor First
H
That is badass right there. Lots of firepower.
What body of water will they run that big thing in? Rio Grande? Since it is apparently a jet propelled craft, one can only assume "shallow" water. The draft on it can't be too shallow for that big a craft.
Appears to be a fiberglass hull too.
Seems heavy welded aluminum would be more desirable in this kind of application. Especially if you expect to be taking return fire and running shallow.
Missed some info. when reading the link. duuuh? It's an outboard to be run on a lake. I'd still want it to be aluminum though.
Designed to protect Falcon Lake on the Texas - Mexico border.
The armaments on board include:
+ 5 - static mounted [2 dual & 1 single] FN M240B 7.62×51 mm NATO Light machine guns,
+ 2 - Barrett .50 BMG Sniper Rifles,
+ other assorted 5.56 rifles, 9mm sub machineguns, and grenade launchers.
QuietShootr
03-01-12, 08:30
OK - this is a case in which I am 100% for the militarization of the police.
**** yeah...that's pure awesomeness, but needs more Mk19 or M134.
Ned Christiansen
03-01-12, 08:40
"Don't mess with Texas".
No disputing that now.
But ya know.... I think other states should have cool "warning to criminals, traitors, and invaders" tag-lines.
"Get outta line in Pennsylvania and we'll brain ya"
"Rhode Island, the reap-what-you-sewed, hang em' high land"
I dunno..... somehow they just don't get it across like, "Don't mess with Texas".
Straight from the DPS director's mouth "We want to own that river, by air, water, and ground"
Great organization, with great leadership....and training too.
Did Red Jacket design the mounts....and I missed that episode?
:sarcastic:
Moose-Knuckle
03-01-12, 12:51
Well with the complete lack of action on behalf of POTUS and his DHS we had to do something.
States rights and all. ;)
OK - this is a case in which I am 100% for the militarization of the police.
Me too when I saw its AO was going to be Falcon Lake. Bad stuff goes on down there. Just two articles I pulled up...
http://threatswatch.org/rapidrecon/2010/05/cartel-pirates-sailing-falcon/
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/1001/Mexican-pirates-shoot-US-jet-skier-near-border-on-Falcon-Lake-Texas
-Jax
lifebreath
03-01-12, 14:08
Damn ... I like those FNs with the big ol' belt feed boxes! It's an awesome rig, but I was thinking ... They've got big steel plate shields to protect against incoming fire; however, I wonder how that fiberglass hull will hold up ...
I'd add an FN deFNender Medium on the bow ...
Nevertheless, I'd take one!
The rumor is $700,000 each.
If true, it's worth every penny.
ETA: A buddy of mine said one was spotted on Lake Travis. The college kids must be more unruly than I thought...
Moose-Knuckle
03-01-12, 15:21
The rumor is $700,000 each.
If true, it's worth every penny.
ETA: A buddy of mine said one was spotted on Lake Travis. The college kids must be more unruly than I thought...
Hah, or the nudists at Hippie Hollow!
More than likely they were T&E on Lake Travis due to it's proximity to DPS HQ there in Austin.
Belmont31R
03-01-12, 15:29
More than likely they were T&E on Lake Travis due to it's proximity to DPS HQ there in Austin.
Im surprised you can even run a boat on Travis anymore...:p
Reagans Rascals
03-01-12, 20:35
At that rate, why not just ask the Naval Special Warfare guys if they would sell them a couple of the old Mark V Special Operations Craft?
Honor First
H
funny thing is... they are actually selling them...
Hopefully their ROE will allow them to use it for it's intended purpose. I'm all for protecting our borders against invaders.
I suppose it'll do.
*snort*
If they consulted ANYbody with no-kidding littoral/brown-water gunboat experience, they completely ignored them. I understand the frustration toward the fed LE agencies, hamstrung as they are by politics and civvie micromanagement in terms of doing what their charters insist they're there for, but that thing is the AR15.com of gunboats.
See the following for a scaled-down parallel: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=100277
Enthusiasm substituted for experience or having a plan.
Is it a patrol boat or a gunboat? Where does the distinction between the two lie?
Oh yeah, it needs more 40mm Bofors. Can't be a real gunboat without one of those. :)
Looks to me like they took a patrol boat and attemped to turn it into a gunboat.
Hope it came with a fiberglass patch kit. For $700k it damn sure should have.
*snort*
If they consulted ANYbody with no-kidding littoral/brown-water gunboat experience, they completely ignored them. I understand the frustration toward the fed LE agencies, hamstrung as they are by politics and civvie micromanagement in terms of doing what their charters insist they're there for, but that thing is the AR15.com of gunboats.
See the following for a scaled-down parallel: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=100277
Enthusiasm substituted for experience or having a plan.
What are the problems with it if you don't mind going into some detail.
Cincinnatus
03-02-12, 11:15
What are the problems with it if you don't mind going into some detail.
+1 on this. Yes, please.
What are the problems with it if you don't mind going into some detail.
I don't know enough to go into detail, but I suspect hanging a bunch of guns on a big fiberglass bay boat is what he's referring to. :D
I still say it's worth every penny for posturing potential. :eek:
ETA: I'm dying here...I read that thread earlier and couldn't escape the comparison.
We'll see them on Falcon Lake too...they are already on the river. Recently made an appearance on one of those border war type TV shows after bp had a chase ending up in a splashdown.
I grew up water skiing on that river and can tell you 900 ponies is going to take a steady hand...it can bite you.
read another article stating it can run in like 12"-14" which isnot a factual statement as it would destroy the lower units. I 'think' that is a redfin made hull.
Hopefully their ROE will allow them to use it for it's intended purpose. I'm all for protecting our borders against invaders.
I think their motto IS their ROE!
"Don't mess with Texas" ... or else
The boats are impressive but what is with leaving the carry handle and bipod on the M240s when they are mounted? Doesn't look like the mounts are quick detach, so whay have that crap hanging on it? Might as well have a bit of TP hanging off the back end of the boat...nerd. I bought this at the boat show but forgot to remove the sales ticket.
But I would not mess with them. ;)
NinjaMedic
03-02-12, 14:34
This is the same agency that adopts the .357 Sig because it "kills em deader than shit," and for patrol rifles purchases 3,200 Bushmaster "M4A3 Texas Edition" from GT Distributors to replace their Mini-14's. They have good intentions and I am glad they are making an effort to combat these cartels but I doubt they have any significant institutional knowledge of littoral combat operations . . .
SNIP
...but I doubt they have any significant institutional knowledge of littoral combat operations . . .
True, but CBP's Office of Air and Marine has a good group down there. The Marine Interdiction Agents from that sector are all solid folks. Considering I was San Diego sector, I didn't work with them, but did get to know a handful of them after I crossed over from Patrol.
Honor First
H
Is it not possible some of them are recent vets of OIF/OEF? Wonder who is going to maintain those MGs for them?
At their core, Texas wants to be an independent nation. For years the Texas National Guard has built up it's capability. They had a robust little Air Force and an Armor Division. Now they are developing a Special Forces capability.
It should come as no surprise that they are also developing a small navy.
At their core, Texas wants to be an independent nation. For years the Texas National Guard has built up it's capability. They had a robust little Air Force and an Armor Division. Now they are developing a Special Forces capability.
It should come as no surprise that they are also developing a small navy.
I fully support that choice if they so choose.
I fully support that choice if they so choose.
I'd give in to their ego if they'd take Oklahoma with them!
I'd give in to their ego if they'd take Oklahoma with them!
Despite the Red River rivalry, I'd hope they'd allow us to join them. Choosing between Texas and Kansas is a no brainer! :D
Moose-Knuckle
03-03-12, 20:07
This is the same agency that adopts the .357 Sig because it "kills em deader than shit," and for patrol rifles purchases 3,200 Bushmaster "M4A3 Texas Edition" from GT Distributors to replace their Mini-14's. They have good intentions and I am glad they are making an effort to combat these cartels but I doubt they have any significant institutional knowledge of littoral combat operations . . .
Any large LE agency suffers from the same thing, it's administration. :(
Remember the DEA RRA carbine? :rolleyes:
At least their Ranger air assets are armed with LaRue OBRs. :eek:
They have good intentions and I am glad they are making an effort to combat these cartels but I doubt they have any significant institutional knowledge of littoral combat operations . . .
I have to believe there are a few SBU guys from TX who would be looking for this sort of work after they leave service.
Belmont31R
03-04-12, 00:45
I'd give in to their ego if they'd take Oklahoma with them!
Just don't try to turn interstates into toll roads. We've already got enough tolls here without turning the interstates into them, too.
Belmont31R
03-04-12, 00:48
I have to believe there are a few SBU guys from TX who would be looking for this sort of work after they leave service.
You have to start somewhere and DPS does not mess around.
"Don't Mess With Texas" is the slogan for their anti-litter campaign
At their core, Texas wants to be an independent nation. For years the Texas National Guard has built up it's capability. They had a robust little Air Force and an Armor Division. Now they are developing a Special Forces capability.
It should come as no surprise that they are also developing a small navy.
I fully support that choice if they so choose.
To emigrate?
QuietShootr
03-05-12, 11:19
I fully support that choice if they so choose.
SUPPORT IT??? **** me, I'd be whipping my wallet out to rent a moving truck so fast I'd get ****ing wallet burn.
I don't know enough to go into detail, but I suspect hanging a bunch of guns on a big fiberglass bay boat is what he's referring to. :DI still say it's worth every penny for posturing potential. :eek:
ETA: I'm dying here...I read that thread earlier and couldn't escape the comparison.
This yellowfin isn't a bayboat it is a bluewater boat. I don't if these boats were built from the ground up with those modifications made or if they were retrofitted. If they were retrofitted with the weapons I would thing that the gunnels will not handle the stress of the weapons mounts and sustained firing. As stated earlier 900 horses is a lot to handle in a river type situation. On a large lake such as Falcon Lake that isn't as much a concern. The boat itself isn't designed to handle weaponry like has been fitted to it. It is a great hull design and I've fished and dived out of one very similar to it. Very dry running and can handle 3-5 ft seas without being completely beatup. When considering what they want to accomplish they probably should have consulted the Navy and the Seals specifically. I'm sure they would have come up with a boat better suited to thier needs.
SUPPORT IT??? **** me, I'd be whipping my wallet out to rent a moving truck so fast I'd get ****ing wallet burn.
no joke, I love Indiana, my family has been here since 1821, but I'd bail in a heart beat to move to Texas if they became their own nation.
At their core, Texas wants to be an independent nation. For years the Texas National Guard has built up it's capability. They had a robust little Air Force and an Armor Division. Now they are developing a Special Forces capability.
It should come as no surprise that they are also developing a small navy.
Pure Texan fantasy. That TXNG "Air Force" and Armored Brigade" is payed by, and equipped by, the federal government. Texas does not "own" any of that equipment and if they had to field it and maintain it with their own funds I would expect the tax rate in Texas to increase substantially.
Just don't try to turn interstates into toll roads. We've already got enough tolls here without turning the interstates into them, too.
The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority is the debil. We'll leave them at the Kansas border, because the KTA is just like them. :(
This yellowfin isn't a bayboat it is a bluewater boat.
Sorry, my boat-fu is crappy. Regardless, as you said, probably not the best weapons platform...
I guess I'll be the lone guy who won't jump on the band wagon of people who think it's great that a law enforcement agency is equipping itself with light machine guns.
If the same forethought that went (or didn't go, in this case) into the execution, namely buying fiberglass bluewater fishing boats for use on a lake and throwing some double 240 mounts (:rolleyes:) on them, as it does into the use doctrine I see this ending poorly. This is like a lot of the things Texas DPS has been up to lately, silly unprofessional horseshit. Their current decision makers seem like they are watching Walker: Texas Ranger and taking notes.
I guess I'll be the lone guy who won't jump on the band wagon of people who think it's great that a law enforcement agency is equipping itself with light machine guns.
If the same forethought that went (or didn't go, in this case) into the execution, namely buying fiberglass bluewater fishing boats for use on a lake and throwing some double 240 mounts (:rolleyes:) on them, as it does into the use doctrine I see this ending poorly. This is like a lot of the things Texas DPS has been up to lately, silly unprofessional horseshit. Their current decision makers seem like they are watching Walker: Texas Ranger and taking notes.
The use of weapons for "shots over the bow" to compel a boat to stop for boarding, or an aircraft to change course and land requires belt-fed tracer ammunition. No one on an offending vessel, be that on the water or in the air, is going to hear the shots or other form of signal or hail at full rpms. They will, however, see multiple splashes and plumes in the water, and multiple tracers arcing past the nose of a plane. So yes, there are uses for belt-fed machine guns even if the use isn't readily apparent to those not trained in the employment.
The use of weapons for "shots over the bow" to compel a boat to stop for boarding, or an aircraft to change course and land requires belt-fed tracer ammunition. No one on an offending vessel, be that on the water or in the air, is going to hear the shots or other form of signal or hail at full rpms. They will, however, see multiple splashes and plumes in the water, and multiple tracers arcing past the nose of a plane. So yes, there are uses for belt-fed machine guns even if the use isn't readily apparent to those not trained in the employment.
And how many times has a something with a legitimate, but extremely narrow use for law enforcement turned into a massively over-utilized poorly suited "hammer"? Think SWAT teams.
Just look at the execution man. How can anyone take an agency that thinks that abortion is suited to "gunboat" use on lakes/rivers seriously?
If they had shown up with this:
http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/NAVY_USCG_RB-M_Test_Boat_lg.jpg
.....I wouldn't be concerned, but no, they chose to do this:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/tacmedic4450/t1largtexasboatjpb.jpg
Redmanfms,
You may want to research who else operates the hull you find so objectionable and who elso that particular boatbuilder has sold craft to. RHIB's can be nice but the response speed of a deep vee hull cannot be matched by a RHIB. Fibreglass has its place.
Ken
At their core, Texas wants to be an independent nation...
Ppfhfhfpthft! They had their chance. Instead, they gave half of their land to the US as a bribe to let Texas become another territory and apply for statehood.
I was exiled to Texas for three years. They don't like independent thinkers down there
Redmanfms,
You may want to research who else operates the hull you find so objectionable and who elso that particular boatbuilder has sold craft to. RHIB's can be nice but the response speed of a deep vee hull cannot be matched by a RHIB. Fibreglass has its place.
Ken
:rolleyes:
Oh for pities sake. I don't find the hull objectionable, I don't actually even find the idea of a law enforcement agency acquiring a tool for a clearly and narrowly defined use objectionable (though I am wary of it), I find the sum of the parts and the stated nebulous goals objectionable. Combine this with the other questionable stuff Texas DPS has done in the name of "Don't Mess with Texas" and I am left thinking this whole exercise was a poorly conceived publicity stunt from the get-go. And frankly, that you are choosing to only respond to very specific portions of my posts tells me that you are being intentionally obtuse.
Mo_Zam_Beek
03-05-12, 17:51
What is Falcon Lake and the River area that they would patrol like? Deep, wide, no real current, and no rocks? OK - looks like it work alright. Otherwise - they probably should have sought out a second opinion.
Around here folks use something like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/conga68/IMG_5442.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/conga68/22rj2salmonriver.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/conga68/22rjsalmon1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/conga68/KernParksPics48.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/conga68/KernParksPics039.jpg
Shallow draft, re-enforced AL sleds, with V-8 driven jets - that means the ability to reverse the thrust - kinda critical in a river with current and rocks. You can sit in the middle of a rapid, or safely back down something really hairy. Also very handy for coming in full throttle and stopping in a very short distance in a hurry.
These are built from @ 19' to @ 60' long. The big ones usually have 2 or 3 V8s and seat tourists 8 wide - they run them up and down the river at some pretty good speeds - very fun trip. Fun to be in one when the spin it in a wide spot on the river.
In general - I wonder what the operating budget is on six of these? While Texas is doing well as a state from an income generation standpoint, likely the capital funds were on the Feds and Op funds are on the State - I wonder if all six will still be running and deployed in 7 years.....
Good luck
It's a 50/50 split with texans on if this money is well spent...I'll let time and results tell us if it was well planned out or not.
I think lots of confiscated $$$ from dopers was used to fund so we shouldn't have to hold our noses too much.
I would call the Rio Grande River a bit lazy...fairly deep with dangerous currents (at times) , but no real 'rapids' with rocks to deal with in my neck of the woods. I think the boat is almost too fast for the river until you gain knowledge of the switch backs. Just zoom in on her from Falcon lake and follow to the mouth of the Gulf. Gotta watch out for the spoil banks to.
It's a maze of horse shoes and switch backs....falcon lake on the other hand is HUGE!! It is not like a deep cylinder lake with shores that drop straight down. More of gradual disk with lots of surface area. Big and deep enough to get small boats in trouble. Should also be noted it is pegged as one of the best Large Mouth Bass lakes on the planet. The mexican net fisherman ruined the white bass population by damming the river during spawn. (jerktards!!)
I would love to get a ride on her in Falcon!! Also should see some action in the land cut in the Laguna Madre. Well known route for al sorts of commodities.
I hope she proves herself but doubt it will affect the flow due to the size of our border.
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