View Full Version : JP Enterprises Silent Captured Buffer Spring
Jesse Tischauser
03-06-12, 15:14
I received my JP Enterprises Silent Captured Spring & Buffer (http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.7.2_os.php) last week. Unlike most new products I test I stuffed this one directly into my match gun and drive two hours both ways to a monthly 3 gun match to test the system. I had quite a bit of confidence in the new system based solely on the company manufacturing it. The new JP Silent Captured Spring & Buffer did not disappoint!
I fired about 75 rounds through my Stag Arms Model 3G (http://www.stagarms.com/index.php?cPath=13_44) at the match. There was a good mix of fast CQB type shooting and slow fire long range shooting. We also saw our fair share of dust and wind. None of it was any trouble for the JP Spring.
When I first installed the new spring into my rifle I remembered that you do not need the buffer retainer for this unit. It will not fly out of the gun without one which is really cool because I know one day during a rifle build or stock change I am going to lose an eye from the buffer retainer pin flying up and hitting me in the face. Installation was quick. I run a stock with a rifle length buffer tube I had to first drop the nylon spacer into the buffer. Getting the new spring kit into the gun would have been mindless had there been no buffer pin in the rifle. But since my rifle still has one I had to do a little wiggling and pushing to get the buffer weights past the pin. It was also easier to install when I took the upper half completely off of the rifle. Once installed, I racked the bolt a few times. WOW, talk about smooth!!! The friction is minimal. It made my current JP Enterprises custom carbine center-less ground and polished operating spring and low mass buffer (http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPS-OSC)seem less awesome than they are which is hard to do. The new silent spring setup did feel as though there was more spring tension than my regular JP buffer/spring setup. I would expert John Paul has the spring rate dialed right where it needs to be though as the gun ran like a champ all day.
I had completely forgotten about the fact that I had installed the new system when I broke my first shot at the match. I was shooting prone and my compensator was between a dump barrel and a tree on dry dirt. The compensator immediately created a dust storm in my shooting area and that coupled with this odd quiet smoothness to my rifle had me confused briefly that my rifle might have suffered a malfunction. I didn't feel the bolt stop and my trigger reset so I squeezed off my second round. I was dumbfounded. I typically double plug when I shot utilizing foam ear plugs inside my Peltor Tactical Sport amplified muffs which deadens everything. I thought man these plugs are workign great today. The 2nd shot it took felt the same and felt and sounded kind of like shooting a suppressed rifle with muffs on. The best way I can think of to explain it is very uneventful. Immediately after the 3rd round I fired I realized what was wrong with my rifle. It was running better than it ever had before!
Here are some cell phone pictures of the system next to the one it is replacing in all of my rifles.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt219/jtischauser/JP%20Enterprises/JPBuffer.jpg
The new Silent Spring & Buffer does weigh almost twice what the previous setup weighs as can be seen below. This is about the only downside to the system I found and that is only a negative if you are carrying your rifle all day.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt219/jtischauser/JP%20Enterprises/JPCapturedSpringBuffer.jpg
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt219/jtischauser/JP%20Enterprises/JPLowMassBuffer.jpg
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt219/jtischauser/JP%20Enterprises/QuietBufferSpring.jpg
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt219/jtischauser/JP%20Enterprises/QuietBufferSpring1.jpg
Here is a video from the match this weekend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R_c-G0OU5s&context=C3a64059ADOEgsToPDskKkZ4MFFM1Rp5Q4g-zpsved
Nice shooting, I've wondered about these buffers. I'd like to try one out but I don't really have any use for one other than just to try it.
Jesse Tischauser
03-07-12, 09:29
Nice shooting, I've wondered about these buffers. I'd like to try one out but I don't really have any use for one other than just to try it.
No use for it? Do you run a piston gun?
Any idea on the life span of one of these units? I'm not sure it would pass the long term reliability requirements for a battle rifle, but may be just fine for a competition gun. I am no spring expert, but that small diameter spring would seem to have a shorter lifespan than the larger diameter spring.
Jesse Tischauser
03-07-12, 10:35
Any idea on the life span of one of these units? I'm not sure it would pass the long term reliability requirements for a battle rifle, but may be just fine for a competition gun. I am no spring expert, but that small diameter spring would seem to have a shorter lifespan than the larger diameter spring.
Are you talking full auto shooting? If your not shooting a lot of full auto to get your round count up I highly doubt many battle rifles see the quantity of ammo my rifle sees. What kind of round count does the typical LEO or MIL rifle see? My competition rifle will see over 20,000 rounds this year.
North Dakota Shooter
03-07-12, 10:38
Good review will have to look into it. 1 question, where did you buy it from, and how much does it cost? Thanks in advance.
At first glance I am REALLY impressed with the engineering that's offered in this unit. I expect this unit to fully outshine the standard mil-spec springs and buffers. Time will tell though! Good luck man
I will throw this out there. JP doesn't make crap, and when it comes to 3gun and honesty, Jesse is hard to beat on either subject.
What I get from the link and the post is that the JP unit reduces the "sproing" in the receiver extension during firing, and it's travel is smoother. From the JP website:
The “spoon over a cheese grater” sound emitted by modern sporting rifles whenever they’re charged or fired has always been one of the AR platform’s ugly blemishes and one we’ve worked ardently to eliminate. After years of specially selecting buffer tube manufacturers based on the quality of their tubes’ interior finish, we opted to design and produce our own action springs with a perfect centerless-ground and precision-polished outside diameter. These JP Custom Buffer Springs are an inexpensive way to see exactly why we have a reputation for having the quietest, smoothest rifles on the market.
Our pursuit of perfection didn’t stop with springs though and led ultimately to the creation of the JPSCS™ Silent Captured Spring, new for 2012. Maintaining all the benefits of our polished buffer springs and proprietary LMOS™ buffer, this combination buffer-spring assembly eliminates the friction of standard buffer components resulting in outstanding smoothness and sound abatement. What’s more, the spring is removable from the assembly for custom tuning, and both the AR-15 and AR-10 versions of the JP Silent Captured Springs are functional in rifle- and carbine-length operating systems. The AR-15 version fits and functions in any AR-15 variant, regardless of caliber and the AR-10 version should fit and function in any large-frame AR-10-type platform.
Is there a performance gain in there somewhere?
I'd be curious to see a shoot-to-failure, and a side by side shoot with a coventional buffer and spring for comparative stoppage rates.
Otherwise, I see ~$125.00 for noise attenuation?
That's what I don't understand. What problem does it solve?
What's the actual service life? What's the cost for replacement springs?
JT says it makes it sound like a suppressed rifle. Some artistic license in his description I hope.
Definitely curious on the service life.
Jesse Tischauser
03-07-12, 11:47
Good review will have to look into it. 1 question, where did you buy it from, and how much does it cost? Thanks in advance.
I am a shooting professional for Team Stag Arms in the 3 Gun Nation Pro Series so i dont get free stuff from JP and Stag unfortunately. I did purchase the unit for $125 or whatever that price is on their site. I am fortunate enough to get to shoot matches with/against John Paul from JP and several of his employees and the Team JP pro shooters which is how I was lucky enough to score one of these early units.
That's one of the coolest non shooting things about 3 gun is you get to rub shoulders with some of the big names in the industry like Mark Malkowski owner of Stag Arms, John Paul from JP, Pete Brownells and Steve Hornady to name a few.
Suwannee Tim
03-07-12, 11:48
Hey, I'm a sucker for something different and this is sure different but I'm wondering what the heck it does other than silence the barely audible action spring sound. Kind of like power mud flaps or hydraulic pants.
skullworks
03-07-12, 11:49
No disrespect intended, but 75 rounds is a little light for a solid opinion on the system's dependability. If 75 rounds is enough then there are lots of first generation SureFire MAG5-60's that squeezed past the reliability requirement (but then firmly went tits up). ;)
Jesse Tischauser
03-07-12, 11:53
I use Mobil one synthetic oil to lubricate my current JP polished buffer springs do that Sproing noise is greatly reduced as compared to my old M16A2 that we ran mostly dry. The polished JP springs are smoother as well and inherently less noisy due to being smoother.
I was most impressed by the reduced friction in the action when I manually cycled the gun. It reminds me of the feel of a nice 11-13 lb 1911 recoil spring.
Jesse Tischauser
03-07-12, 12:02
No disrespect intended, but 75 rounds is a little light for a solid opinion on the system's dependability. If 75 rounds is enough then there are lots of first generation SureFire MAG5-60's that squeezed past the reliability requirement (but then firmly went tits up). ;)
It definitely wasn't a torture test just a first impression. I'm going TI be shooting another 100-200 through my Stag Model 3G rifle tonight and hopefully another 2-3000 through it this month in preparation for the big 3 Gun Nation Pro Series event on March 31st.
Funkenstein
03-07-12, 12:29
Wouldn't this also make suppressed weapons even quieter?
I may be wrong but won't a quieter/smoother buffer action reduce the decibels ?
skullworks
03-07-12, 14:40
It definitely wasn't a torture test just a first impression. I'm going TI be shooting another 100-200 through my Stag Model 3G rifle tonight and hopefully another 2-3000 through it this month in preparation for the big 3 Gun Nation Pro Series event on March 31st.
Fair enough!
Wouldn't this also make suppressed weapons even quieter? I may be wrong but won't a quieter/smoother buffer action reduce the decibels ?
The pointy end of the gun is the problem addressed with suppressors.
Funkenstein
03-07-12, 18:02
The pointy end of the gun is the problem addressed with suppressors.
Cute.
The action makes a great deal of noise as well if I'm not mistaken and have seen it mentioned before.
My thought is that a regulated amount of gas with use of suppressor and a softer buffer spring will reduce overall decibels.
It's obviously negligible when firing un-suppressed.
I just received my JP SCS yesterday from JP Rifles as well, haven't taken it out shooting yet though.
Cute.
The action makes a great deal of noise as well if I'm not mistaken and have seen it mentioned before.
My thought is that a regulated amount of gas with use of suppressor and a softer buffer spring will reduce overall decibels.
It's obviously negligible when firing un-suppressed.
True, and not - There are plenty of times particularly when using these rifles in their intended uses (shooting at bad people) that the only thing I heard from the rifle was the buffer spring scratching against the buffer tube. Interesting device, I hope that it does well enough that the concept continues to be tested and inproved. Anything to make my favorite black gun better, longer lasting, smoother and more reliable.
I am a shooting professional for Team Stag Arms in the 3 Gun Nation Pro Series so i dont get free stuff from JP and Stag unfortunately. I did purchase the unit for $125 or whatever that price is on their site. I am fortunate enough to get to shoot matches with/against John Paul from JP and several of his employees and the Team JP pro shooters which is how I was lucky enough to score one of these early units.
That's one of the coolest non shooting things about 3 gun is you get to rub shoulders with some of the big names in the industry like Mark Malkowski owner of Stag Arms, John Paul from JP, Pete Brownells and Steve Hornady to name a few.
Next time you see JP, ask him if he'd ever consider making his low mass buffers and the SCS for carbine receiver extensions. Most of us on the tactical side don't run rifle length RE's.
Glocktogo, if i read the page correctly, the SCS is designed for carbine length tubes, but comes with a spacer for running in rifle length tubes.
Also, I like the idea of the product, but it is a little too expensive for me to just try it out, unfortunately. Maybe one of these days I'll have some disposable income.
I hate to say it, but my LMT dry teflon tube doesn't make any real noise either, so I don't see the point in blowing $125 for this fancy doohicky...
I don't get it. The sproing sound serves as an indicator that the action has cycled. When firing the last round in a mag, there is no sproing sound. I think this is a good thing, and I don't see why anyone would want to go to such lengths to eliminate a little noise.:confused:
I don't get it. The sproing sound serves as an indicator that the action has cycled. When firing the last round in a mag, there is no sproing sound. I think this is a good thing, and I don't see why anyone would want to go to such lengths to eliminate a little noise.:confused:
I can think of tactical reasons similar to the reason people want cans
I can think of tactical reasons similar to the reason people want cans
Even with a can on, if you aren't the shooter you cannot hear the "sproing".
Even with a can on, if you aren't the shooter you cannot hear the "sproing".
But you can sure hear the BCG slamming home and brass hitting the floor though no buffer tweak in the world will cure those sounds.
I don't see this particular item being a 'stealth enhancer' in the least.
Too many other noises available that are certainly more audible than a very slight spring rattle inside a tube inside a stock cradled tight against cloth damping with arms, body and head helping to block any residual soundwaves coming from the buffer spring.
Robb Jensen
03-09-12, 21:10
FWIW Last time I shot a integrally suppressed 9mm Colt 635 I found it quieter than a MP5-SD. Sure the shooter could hear the buffer spring but bystanders couldn't.
Sound is heard through the bones in your skull and jaw and some sound is heard through your eardrums.
But you can sure hear the BCG slamming home and brass hitting the floor though no buffer tweak in the world will cure those sounds.
I don't see this particular item being a 'stealth enhancer' in the least.
Too many other noises available that are certainly more audible than a very slight spring rattle inside a tube inside a stock cradled tight against cloth damping with arms, body and head helping to block any residual soundwaves coming from the buffer spring.
The brass hitting the floor could be cured with a brass catcher or if you are on sand, dirt or grass wouldn't be much of an issue. But I 100% agree with the bcg
There doesn't appear to be any reciprocating mass on the assembly. If this is the case, how will it mitigate bolt bounce?
Orange-Fox
03-28-12, 11:23
Anyone know how would this, in MagPul UBR, compare to the Vltor A5?
Jesse Tischauser
03-28-12, 13:14
Anyone know how would this, in MagPul UBR, compare to the Vltor A5?
What specifically are you wanting to compare? Does one stock use a carbine length buffet and one use rifle length!
Robb Jensen
03-28-12, 13:30
Jesse,
Have you tried it with really weak .223 like Wolf or PMC bronze? I'm very interested in trying one out.
I'm shooting Hornady Steel Match 75gr .223 pressure ammo in my 18" BCM SS410 rifle gas barrel.
Orange-Fox
03-28-12, 16:50
The UBR uses a carbine length "entry" tube and carbine buffer/spring while the A5 uses a proprietary carbine tube that's about 3/4" longer with a rifle spring and proprietary buffer.
Maybe someone could do a side by side comparison of an A5 w/EMOD and a JP-SCBS w/EMOD regarding recoil/reliability.
There doesn't appear to be any reciprocating mass on the assembly. If this is the case, how will it mitigate bolt bounce?
Good question. Perhaps it acts like a 9mm buffer and doesn't.
DeltaSierra
03-28-12, 23:11
FWIW Last time I shot a integrally suppressed 9mm Colt 635 I found it quieter than a MP5-SD. Sure the shooter could hear the buffer spring but bystanders couldn't.
Sound is heard through the bones in your skull and jaw and some sound is heard through your eardrums.
I'm simply amazed at how many people are caught up in this whole bit about the supposed "sproing" while firing...
This is one of the most insane of the useless widgets that I've seen. If you want to add this doohicky to your rifle, fine - just don't try to justify your purchase with some nonsense about reducing the "sproing" in your rifle...
Gimme a break...
I'm simply amazed at how many people are caught up in this whole bit about the supposed "sproing" while firing...
This is one of the most insane of the useless widgets that I've seen. If you want to add this doohicky to your rifle, fine - just don't try to justify your purchase with some nonsense about reducing the "sproing" in your rifle...
Gimme a break...
My interest really doesn't lie in the reduced "sproing". JP is known for making stuff that works exceptionally well, or he wouldn't have the competition following he does. My interest lies in how well it works in the gun, as compared to a regular setup.
DeltaSierra
03-28-12, 23:44
My interest lies in how well it works in the gun, as compared to a regular setup.
I can understand being interested in it for that reason.
I can't understand people jumping on board with this thing because it will make less noise.....:help:
kelly neal
04-25-12, 14:12
I've got about 500 rounds through mine with no hiccups (carbine length tube, 18 in barrel JP upper). Not exactly the ultimate test ever but promising nonetheless. Mike P is testing one on a whole series of different ARs in all sorts of calibers and configurations. Last I heard, it was working just fine.
This part does get rid of the detent. I have seen a few of those break locking up the gun so perhaps the captured spring will add to long term reliability.
I, for one, cannot stand the "sprong" in a normal AR buffer, particularly an ungreased one. This item does get rid of that distraction. I see smoothing out the cycling of the rifle as a good thing. A big deal? Not really but when you're shooting against Taran Butler and Daniel Horner, every little bit helps. When shooting dirt clods in the desert, it won't matter.
BUT if getting rid of "sprong" comes at the price of reliability, it ain't worth it.
sinlessorrow
04-29-12, 16:52
The only way the buffer retaining detent will reak is if the RE is not put on correctly.
I have never seen a porperly assembeled lower ruin a detent.
The only way the buffer retaining detent will reak is if the RE is not put on correctly.
I have never seen a porperly assembeled lower ruin a detent.
That's because there is no such thing as a buffer retaining detent. I will assume you meant to say buffer retainer. Kelly Neal certainly doesn't need me to defend him but... I'd bet cash money he launched more bullets last year, maybe just this year, than you have your entire life. He is by all accounts a subject matter expert. The fact that you have never seen a properly assembled lower spit a buffer retainer is irrelevant.
sinlessorrow
04-29-12, 17:23
I have never seen a porperly assembeled lower ruin a detent.
That's because there is no such thing as a buffer retaining detent. I will assume you meant to say buffer retainer. Kelly Neal certainly doesn't need me to defend him but... I'd bet cash money he launched more bullets last year, maybe just this year, than you have your entire life. He is by all accounts a subject matter expert. The fact that you have never seen a properly assembled lower spit a buffer retainer is irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
Well Kelly did call it a detent and I had a brain fart. Thus I went with detent.
I dont know who kelly is and I am not saying hes wrong, I just have never seen nore heard of a properly installed receiver extension spitting out a retainer.
Any time I see one spit out its because the RE was not screwed in all the way.
If the RE is in correctly the buffer will never make contact with the retainer when the upper is on the lower. So basically the retainer is just sitting there when everything is assembeled correctly.
Jesse Tischauser
04-29-12, 17:24
I saw a lower break through to the rear of the trigger housing on a lower that looked to have a curiously thin amount of material left inbetween the buffer retainer's hole and the back of the trigger housing. And I have only been shooting for a few years.
Is there any functional benefit to this setup?
Is it smoother?
Does it have lower friction / greater spring efficiency?
Is there any functional benefit to this setup?
Is it smoother?
Does it have lower friction / greater spring efficiency?
Knowing JP and their insane quest for the ultimate 3-gun rifle, I asume this has a functional purpose - call them and talk to an engineer. I think the lack of sprong noise was an "accidental" benefit (not the main purpose for this.)
Jesse Tischauser
04-30-12, 12:18
Knowing JP and their insane quest for the ultimate 3-gun rifle, I asume this has a functional purpose - call them and talk to an engineer. I think the lack of sprong noise was an "accidental" benefit (not the main purpose for this.)
The Biggest functional advantage of this system is smoother operation which in conjunction with the JP low mass bolt carrier and adjustable gas block will allow you to run even less gas which makes the Rifle run even softer.
The Biggest functional advantage of this system is smoother operation which in conjunction with the JP low mass bolt carrier and adjustable gas block will allow you to run even less gas which makes the Rifle run even softer.
Yeah, this. :p
The_War_Wagon
04-30-12, 12:42
I hate to say it, but my LMT dry teflon tube doesn't make any real noise either, so I don't see the point in blowing $125 for this fancy doohicky...
I don't get it. The sproing sound serves as an indicator that the action has cycled. When firing the last round in a mag, there is no sproing sound. I think this is a good thing, and I don't see why anyone would want to go to such lengths to eliminate a little noise.:confused:
I'm simply amazed at how many people are caught up in this whole bit about the supposed "sproing" while firing...
This is one of the most insane of the useless widgets that I've seen. If you want to add this doohicky to your rifle, fine - just don't try to justify your purchase with some nonsense about reducing the "sproing" in your rifle...
Gimme a break...
I can understand being interested in it for that reason.
I can't understand people jumping on board with this thing because it will make less noise.....:help:
THESE!
My advice to everyone who complains about buffer spring... 'noise'... is, shoot LOUDER ammo. :rolleyes:
The only noise I worry about, is a *click* with no bang, and a *bang* that sounds different than the OTHER bangs (squib).
All other noise is, 'background'...
I have personally had a buffer retainer pop out slightly and take a small amount of metal from the hole in the lr it was sitting in. This malfunction did not allow the bcg to cycle, rendering the weapon useless. When I seperated the the recievers to see what the issue was the retainer would not fit back into the hole in the lr, because it was no longer round. I was at the range so this was no big deal. In the field where preservation of life is at stake, that little piece of metal could be your undoing. So, Ive said all of this to say removing a moving part CAN definately ad to reliability. Any product that can smoothe out the action, reduce recoil and add to reliability is a good thing. Nothing wrong with innovation (as long as it works) or we would all still be using musketts.
sinlessorrow
06-25-12, 10:00
I have personally had a buffer retainer pop out slightly and take a small amount of metal from the hole in the lr it was sitting in. This malfunction did not allow the bcg to cycle, rendering the weapon useless. When I seperated the the recievers to see what the issue was the retainer would not fit back into the hole in the lr, because it was no longer round. I'm was at the range so this was no big deal. In the field where preservation of life is at stake, that little piece of metal could be your undoing. So, Ive said all of this to say removing a moving part CAN definately ad to reliability. Any product that can smoothe out the action, reduce recoil and add to reliability is a good thing. Nothing wrong with innovation (as long as it works) or we would all still be using musketts.
I completely agree. The issue to me is that no one has proven this makes for a more reliable rifle.
I mean is this something designed for a go fast rifke usig lightweight carriers with specially sized gas ports or is this something that could benefit the M4A1?
So far its only been shown to work in go fast rifles, i havent seen any testing of bolt bounce, RPM change, etc.
So, Ive said all of this to say removing a moving part CAN definately ad to reliability. Any product that can smoothe out the action, reduce recoil and add to reliability is a good thing.
And the super buffer system is made up of how many parts?
And the super buffer system is made up of how many proprietary parts?
Fixed.
We need somebody to do a full-on reliability study on this thing. Not one rifle with 3K rounds, but like 3 with 5K rounds. See what shape the thing is in after that. If it's a "wear" item, that's fine, but it'd be nice to see when and how it breaks or if the springs just die a slow death or whatever.
Fixed.
Ah, yes, my bad.
Thanks! :thank_you2:
UsnRoberts
06-25-12, 16:00
That's what I don't understand. What problem does it solve?
What's the actual service life? What's the cost for replacement springs?
JT says it makes it sound like a suppressed rifle. Some artistic license in his description I hope.
3 gun part. not mil-spec. Relax!
BufordTJustice
06-25-12, 19:09
The Biggest functional advantage of this system is smoother operation which in conjunction with the JP low mass bolt carrier and adjustable gas block will allow you to run even less gas which makes the Rifle run even softer.
I've noticed this same effect when using an NiB carrier in my patrol rifle. I can run a heavier buffer and stronger buffer spring and still maintain 100% reliability using the same ammo. Less friction is more gooder. ;)
EDIT: This is interesting. I wonder if Rsilvers could run some tests on it for spring load in battery, ROF, and compressed load.
philipeggo
07-13-12, 17:34
So forgive my ignorance but what is this for? what does is do that a regular system doesnt ? all ive gathered is that its expensive and quiet? :confused:
Jesse Tischauser
07-13-12, 23:08
So forgive my ignorance but what is this for? what does is do that a regular system doesnt ? all ive gathered is that its expensive and quiet? :confused:
It's a lot smoother than a traditional buffer and spring. I equate it to cycling a Custom 1911 vs a Glock for example.
Smoother means it will cycle with less issues and that it needless gas to make it cycle. Less gas means less recoil. It's cream on top of the low mass system pie that JP already has perfected.
Do you need one? Absolutely not! Should you want one? Of course!
BufordTJustice
07-15-12, 14:33
It's a lot smoother than a traditional buffer and spring. I equate it to cycling a Custom 1911 vs a Glock for example.
Smoother means it will cycle with less issues and that it needless gas to make it cycle. Less gas means less recoil. It's cream on top of the low mass system pie that JP already has perfected.
Do you need one? Absolutely not! Should you want one? Of course!
Jesse,
Great to have your opinion. Do you know the weight of the buffer-weights in JP setup?
Also, the spring looks to be a variable rate spring, as best I can identify from the photographs on JP's website. I say this because the coils toward the weight-end of the assembly are noticeably closer together than the coils toward the delrin buffer end of the assembly.
Do you happen to have any information on spring weight?
I'm a huge fan of the Vltor A5 system, but there's more than one way to skin a cat and I'm all about advancing the art of the modern carbine. This is a really interesting setup. Thanks for chiming in.
sinlessorrow
07-15-12, 16:12
If you 3gun and want a go fast gun this sprig makes perfect sense.
If you want a combat weapon i would stay away from this sprig.
snakedoctor
07-15-12, 17:22
If you 3gun and want a go fast gun this sprig makes perfect sense.
If you want a combat weapon i would stay away from this sprig.
So what your saying is, "3gun weapons" are somehow less lethal than "combat weapons"? :blink:
BufordTJustice
07-15-12, 17:25
So what your saying is, "3gun weapons" are somehow less lethal than "combat weapons"? :blink:
With due respect guys, can we NOT thread drift like this please?
This is currently being hammered in multiple other threads. I don't care if it's 3 gun or not, I just want to discuss the functional and technical aspects of the new JP part. I assume others feel the same.
I have no plans to switch from my Vltor A5 setup (I'm perfectly happy with it)....I am just curious about this JP product.
sinlessorrow
07-15-12, 17:54
With due respect guys, can we NOT thread drift like this please?
This is currently being hammered in multiple other threads. I don't care if it's 3 gun or not, I just want to discuss the functional and technical aspects of the new JP part. I assume others feel the same.
I have no plans to switch from my Vltor A5 setup (I'm perfectly happy with it)....I am just curious about this JP product.
I wasnt trying to make it a 3gun vs combat gun.
I was just stating the JP spring is designed for guns with lightweight carriers, specially sized gas ports tuned to the rifle and ammo to give lightest recoil and this spring tops it off.
Doesnt mean its less lethal but those mods would make it less reliable in sandy dusty environments.
BufordTJustice
07-15-12, 17:57
I wasnt trying to make it a 3gun vs combat gun.
I was just stating the JP spring is designed for guns with lightweight carriers, specially sized gas ports tuned to the rifle and ammo to give lightest recoil and this spring tops it off.
I hear you. But they will soon be offering custom spring weights. It appears one can interchange springs with an Allen wrench. With that option, maybe the design has merit beyond competition.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Epic 4G Touch
I wasnt trying to make it a 3gun vs combat gun.
No, somebody else did a 2+2=chair thing after deciding to get Stuck on Stupid by posting a deliberate misinterpretation, be it for funsies or out of ignorance. The emoticon could...COULD...signify sarcasm, but doesn't really appear to.
How's about we disregard it, not repeat anything like it, and call it even so I don't have to start deleting things...?
sinlessorrow
07-15-12, 19:24
I hear you. But they will soon be offering custom spring weights. It appears one can interchange springs with an Allen wrench. With that option, maybe the design has merit beyond competition.
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Now that would be nice. A heavier spring designed right could rly make the system good for multiple uses not just competition.
BufordTJustice
07-15-12, 20:00
Now that would be nice. A heavier spring designed right could rly make the system good for multiple uses not just competition.
That's what I figure. I'm sure the comp guys will be fiddling with spring weights, etc.
Jesse Tischauser
07-15-12, 20:03
Now that would be nice. A heavier spring designed right could rly make the system good for multiple uses not just competition.
I don't have a clue about any of the engineering in the system or the buffet weights but I was told that this thing wasn't built just for competition. It's being run by working rifles too.
sinlessorrow
07-15-12, 20:09
I don't have a clue about any of the engineering in the system or the buffet weights but I was told that this thing wasn't built just for competition. It's being run by working rifles too.
thanks for the input, I wish someone would do a comparison on auto to test RPM vs a standard carbine spring and H2 and also test for bolt bounce.
Has anyone used this JP silent spring on a gas-piston AR?
Dave-HuldraArms
12-17-12, 22:27
I have three of them in 3 of my Huldra rifles with the Adams piston system. First, I won't go out and say that this is a "needed" item and I don't get into the noise thing. The initial reason we got some to test was because customers ask us is X Y Z compatible with your rifle type questions. With that we like to test as many X Y and Zs as we can and at a recent carbine course the JP SCRS came up. We have also tested the A5 system, different weight buffers, different springs brands materials etc.
The class was a Trident Concepts Combative Carbine course, about 2000 rounds in 3 days. I ran the spring in my 16 Tac Evo Elite, a 16" mid length piston gun. At first I noticed the difference in the "smoothness" and sound of just cycling the action the first few times to get a feel for the part. Now thats all fine and dandy but I wanted to see if it would run. As I started to run drills in Jeff's class I was actually really impressed by the system. It changed the recoil impulse to a smoother pulse and I found it was noticeable. Now I'm a big guy so I don't really get into the recoil difference of a DI vs Piston AR, to me they both feel similar and they don't push me around much.
What I first felt was a smooth recoil impulse and recoil management was easy. I was able to fire off controlled fire drills fast and efficiently with excellent accuracy and control. My groups were tight and times were fast. I started shooting more and more rounds in the drills to push the envelope, but the drills remained controllable and efficient. For me I noticed shot to shot times/splits seemed faster and there was less muzzle rise. Now this could be part of the hype effect but those who shot it after without knowing what was in there, commented on how smooth the gun felt and the reticle didn't really move. Some guys start to analyze the recoil both ways, as the buffer moves back and as it comes back, for me I don't get that scientific but it appeared the recoil impulse was yes smoother but also more "swift" and quicker to terminate if that at all makes sense. I know I am rambling but its kind of hard to describe. I was running a standard a2 so no comps or anything fancy, ammo was XM193 55 gr. Also my optic was a Trijicon TR24.
Overall I am actually impressed, it is a well built product, durable and rugged so far. Have about 3500 rounds through one rifle with one and just under 1000 rounds on another in my competition rifle. So far so good no stoppages or jams. Maintenance is easy, I run a little Slip grease on the rod sometimes EWL and it is nice and smooth.
The third spring is in a test gun, and 18" rifle length gas piston rifle. I also got some of the different rated springs to test with this system on this particular rifle. The other spring units have the standard spring. JP now has the other springs available so the system can be tuned to work with various gas systems.
So far I plan on running the first spring until 5000 rounds, inspecting, and then run another several thousand rounds and see what happens. I am planning on going to a couple carbine classes next year and that will be the rifle that I run. On my competition 3 gun rifle I plan on keeping it in their as well.
The downsides, yeah they weight a little more then the standard buffer and spring, actually a few ounces more. And of course the cost, at $125 a piece that can be an expensive upgrade from a quality buffer and spring. Is it worth it? I am still not sure if I will put one in every rifle I have, that'd be pretty expensive. But I like the ones I have to the point that they will probably be a fixture in my armory.
Dave
So forgive my ignorance but what is this for? what does is do that a regular system doesnt ? all ive gathered is that its expensive and quiet?
It's a lot smoother than a traditional buffer and spring. I equate it to cycling a Custom 1911 vs a Glock for example.
Smoother means it will cycle with less issues and that it needless gas to make it cycle. Less gas means less recoil. It's cream on top of the low mass system pie that JP already has perfected.
Do you need one? Absolutely not! Should you want one? Of course!
Great response to a totally legit question. I just ordered a Stag 3GL, now I hate you Jesse, yes i'll be buying one(JP Enterprises Silent Captured Buffer Spring) :D. BTW All my Glocks cycle better than either of the custom 1911s I shot and did so for many $$$ less :nono: so don't be going there. :).
Thanks for the info Jesse. I'll be looking further into this product. Sounds like it has some pretty positive attributes.
On one hand, if it ain't broke don't fix it. On the other hand we'd still be shooting the ARs of 1968 if people like John Paul didn't look for ways to make a good thing better.
Innovation can be a bumpy road. Some people are scared to travel it.
The_Hammer_Man
12-18-12, 16:20
From a specialist/competition view point I think this product has a lot of merit.
Do I think it "fixes" anything? NO.
It's a specialized piece of equipment meant to be used in a particular way in a particular shooting environment. 3-gun.
There's an old adage that goes: "Smooth will always be faster than quick". Anything that smooths out the recoil impulse in a competition or precision rifle is "good thing" in my book. I'll be purchasing a couple of these to test in one of my SPR builds to see if it helps or hinders performance and reliability.
I believe this will end up being one of those pieces of gear that marginalizes your performance in a competitive environment like 3-gun. I think it's a similar situation we had in competition circles when 3-port muzzle brakes came onto the scene. If you didn't have one you couldn't "hang with the big dogs.
Please remember most open class 3-gun rifles are "one trick ponies" in that they are set up to be accurate with ONE particular ammunition load.... not everything in the ammo locker like a military weapon.
Do I think that this technology will eventually "trickle down" to the street cop and average weapons user anytime soon? Again, no. Do I think it has a place in the competition/precision rifle world? Hell YES!!
Howdy, I wanted to chime in with what I have going on.
I have been running this same JP silent spring buffer for 6 months in one of my AR's. In this rifle, about 1000 rounds since the install, and it seems to run a bit smoother than the standard spring.
The rifle is a PWS 16" piston upper with a Seekins lower, Chip trigger, mag pull furniture, and Leupold MK4 CMR 1.5 to 5 optic.
Now this past weekend I installed a HTG Eureka suppressor and right away I got two feeding issues. The rest of the mags worked fine, but no doubt it feels different with the suppressor. I know I increased back pressure some, so I will test it out more next week. I hope this part can handle the suppressor pressure increase.
Very interesting, so do we have a long-term review candidate yet?
Wish this thread could be revived. I'm waiting on my LMT LM8MWS SBR to get out of NFA jail. Planning on my Saker 762 getting put onto it. Want it to stay reliable, but tame the over gassed issues I keep reading about. That and a sexier recoil pulse would be nice, especially for the wife to shoot.
Wish this thread could be revived. I'm waiting on my LMT LM8MWS SBR to get out of NFA jail. Planning on my Saker 762 getting put onto it. Want it to stay reliable, but tame the over gassed issues I keep reading about. That and a sexier recoil pulse would be nice, especially for the wife to shoot.
WTF is a "sexier recoil pulse"?
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I've just read is smooths out the recoil. Maybe I'm wrong,just what I've read
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