View Full Version : Cracked upper? Replace or shoot and forget?
Bruce in WV
03-06-12, 16:36
It looks like a scratch, but may be a crack. Its an Armalite, and I'm not the original owner, so there's no warranty. Given its location, it may not be a safety issue, but then again, I'm not really an AR guy and would not want to make that call without some expert advice.
Tech support at Armalite couldn't tell without manual inspection, but thought it looked like a manufacturing artifact. My armorer will inspect it later this week and tell what he thinks.
Q: break it up for parts and demil the upper, replace the upper with something like a BCM blem flattop, or shoot it and forget about it?
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/2005bruce/Armalitex1.jpg
Send it to Armalite. If it's a manufacturing flaw they should replace it.
If it's a crack it's in a non-stress/non-critical area but it ain't right.
Bruce in WV
03-06-12, 16:57
I'm not the original owner, so there's no warranty.
Returning it to Armalite would be at my expense - both directions - and be a full cost repair ($133 plus labor).
What's it look like on the inside?
Looks like nothing more than a scratch or manufacturing flaw.....nothing major.
You can replace the upper receiver for less than $130 if need be.
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Looks like a scratch to me too. If it is a crack does is extend to the under-side lip or just merely on the side?
There really isn't much pressure exerted on the uppers to begin with so how one cracks is beyond me. Someone will chime in with more information but I don't see it being a huge issue.
It doesn't look like an issue.
Just check inside and you should be able to tell if its a crack or a scratch.
Bruce in WV
03-06-12, 19:02
Good advice - If it looks like it may go all the way through I found an earlier thread about NDI crack analysis using penetrating oil to see if a drop will work its way through from one side to the other.
It looks very straight for a crack.. More like a scratch/mark.. Possibly a close up pic or two would help.. Cheers.. Ron
Heavy Metal
03-06-12, 19:07
Bruce, what part of WV are you in? Northern? Eastern? Central? Southern?
For my money, I would get it inspected just so I would know one way or the other. If its a scratch.....drive on. A crack? Get it fixed or replace.
ICANHITHIMMAN
03-06-12, 20:33
Its a pretty strait crack at a very funny angle in a non stress point. I cant wait to here what it is.
Measure its length and keep an eye on it. If it is a crack, it may not show through to the other side but it will propagate with repeated cyclic loading.
Confed-rifleman
03-07-12, 01:27
Like others have said, it looks too straight for a crack and in a low stress area. Keep a close eye on it or get it checked. If it is a crack you can get a replacement receiver under $130. Flat-top M4 from Bravo Company for around $100, for example.
looks like a scratch to me as well anyway Armalite has a lifetime warranty If I'm not mistaken...send them the upper and have it inspected. (ETA: just re-read your post and realized your not the first owner of the gun, but how could they tell?)
or
replace the receiver by yourself and use the old one to build a .22 upper ;)
Bruce in WV
03-07-12, 05:28
...it might be dangerous and I'm liable to serious damages if it ever fails and injures anybody (tort law was a bitch).
I'm anxiously waiting to get it back in my hands. This is the M-15 A2 rifle I sold recently and the buyer returned it for a full refund because of the cracked upper. I'm certainly not going to argue over the return under those conditions, and sent him a full refund, including return shipping.
I don't want to put it back up for sale until I'm sure of its true condition, so it'll go to my armorer for an inspection when I get it back.
Even if he says its GTG, because of the potential liability, I think I'll just put on a new upper receiver, put this 'cracked' one in the SHTF spares box, and put the rifle back in the rack until the next buying frenzy hits and I can double the price of the rifle!
...how could they tell?
Yes, but I'd know the difference. Isn't there a quote to the effect that "ethics is what you do when nodoby's looking"? Its one less bad thing I will have to answer for some day...
Integrity is doing the correct thing even when no one is looking. Call Armalite and ask, worst they could do is say no. If they do, start asking " so what exactly does a lifetime warranty exactly mean"? I'm sure they would do you right.
Bruce in WV
03-07-12, 16:56
I inquired at Armalite before doing anything else. Their policy is very clear. Only the original owner has a warranty, and even then, you only have a warranty if you fill out the card that comes with the gun and it is properly mailed in to them. They were polite, but firm, and their policy is clearly stated in their FAQ.
I'm on my own, but I'm OK with that. Its just part of the give and take when you're in this hobby.
So get it dye penetrant tested to confirm if it's cracked or not.
If it's cracked it'll cost you an upper and gunsmith time (or buy the tools and do it yourself -- it ain't hard). You may come out ahead by upgrading from an A2 to an A4 flat top.
Heavy Metal
03-07-12, 18:30
Aluminum just don't crack that straight. It looks like a bit of tool drag over the surface before anodizing.
Bruce in WV
03-07-12, 18:31
Great idea. How expensive is that? Who does it?
Does it make financial sense? Is there room in the cost/benefit tradespace to make it worthwhile instead of just changing it to a new upper receiver?
Great idea. How expensive is that? Who does it?
Does it make financial sense? Is there room in the cost/benefit tradespace to make it worthwhile instead of just changing it to a new upper receiver?
Can you post pics of the inside of your upper for us to look at? :confused:
Bruce in WV
03-07-12, 18:56
I'm anxiously waiting to get it back in my hands.
I'll do that as soon as I get my hands on it.
Really doesn't look like a crack to me either but no one can be sure just by looking at a single picture.
An LPI test would be your best bet if you want to be sure. I have seen cheap kits as low as $20 on the webs but your better kits are going to be $75 or more for one can each of penetrant, cleaner, and developer. If you happen to know somebody that works in a good machine shop, there is a good chance they would have the materials to do this in-house. An NDT company would probably charge you $100 minimum for this test.
You could try this cheap DIY method which should expose a crack if its a bad one and open to the test surface.
1. Soak the area of interest in some light penetrating oil for 30 minutes.
2. Wipe the oil off with clean, dry rags until you can remove no more oil with the dry rags.
3. Dampen but do not saturate a clean, dry rag with acetone or paint thinner. Wipe the suspect area back and forth a few times, but not to heavily.
4. After acetone or thinner has evaporated, lightly blow or dust baby or talcum powder over this area. You don't want it snow white but you need enough powder to contact the suspect area.
5. Evaluate suspect area after 5 to 10 minutes and see if any oil has has been absorbed into the powder.
Good luck.
Heavy Metal
03-07-12, 22:07
If it is a crack, it should show on the bottom with the recievers open and it would also show on the inside.
If you really don't know what it is, I would get it repaired or what ever.
Doc Safari
03-08-12, 15:59
If it is a crack, it should show on the bottom with the recievers open and it would also show on the inside.
Agreed. I've got a couple of marks that look suspiciously like that on the inside of my BCM upper. The marks have no depth to them and appear to have happened before the upper went through the finishing process. I think it's either a tool mark or a scratch left by a burr on the tool bit during machining.
Shine a bright light on it and look at it under a magnifying glass to see if it's "finished" over by the anodizing, or if it interrupts the finish.
I wish you had posted a larger pic, but I bet it's a cosmetic flaw.
Bruce in WV
03-09-12, 09:33
The armorer gave it a thorough going over and a clean bill of health as a scratch under the anodizing. I'm not even going to pick it up (so no follow up pictures - sorry); its going straight to consignment.
Returning it to Armalite would be at my expense - both directions - and be a full cost repair ($133 plus labor).
Really??? That seems like a bad deal on their part.
C4
I inquired at Armalite before doing anything else. Their policy is very clear. Only the original owner has a warranty, and even then, you only have a warranty if you fill out the card that comes with the gun and it is properly mailed in to them. They were polite, but firm, and their policy is clearly stated in their FAQ.
Just FYI. The warranty card condition may not be legal. Some states prohibit that (requiring a registration be sent in as condition of warranty). I know you are not the original owner but wanted to put this in for posterity's sake if someone comes across this thread in the future.
I'm on my own, but I'm OK with that. Its just part of the give and take when you're in this hobby.
The armorer gave it a thorough going over and a clean bill of health as a scratch under the anodizing. I'm not even going to pick it up (so no follow up pictures - sorry); its going straight to consignment.
Well thats good!
It seemed like a strange place for a crack....
I had my great-grandfather's SAA NDT'd [magnaflux? DPT?] by Northern Virginia Gun Works, 703-644-6504 before shooting it.
Heavy Metal
03-10-12, 18:17
Just FYI. The warranty card condition may not be legal. Some states prohibit that (requiring a registration be sent in as condition of warranty). I know you are not the original owner but wanted to put this in for posterity's sake if someone comes across this thread in the future.
I would call the state's AG office and ask for advice on that one. I am pretty sure in WV, my state, they cannot require the card as a pre-requisite for service. The main purpose for the card is to track you down in case of a recall anyways.
That said, I would not return one for a trivial cosmetic reason like that. The finish was intact.
Looks to me like someone slipped while they were deburring....
Deburring tool drag mark. Happens all the time on the shop floor. Normally a guy will blend it in at the machine before anodizing.
If that's the case, nothing to worry about other than at this point it's a cosmetic blem.
Mike in MN
I really had no budget limit when I had the family heirloom SAA tested. I wanted to shoot it, but do so safely. So I did it. I suspect that today's cost would be on the order of $50-75, depending on who you had do it.
The problem with DP or magnaflux is that they are for discovering if there is a fault in the metal's surface, which you can already see in your case. DP on the inside surface would tell you if the fault has already reached the inside, but if the fault is just a hair shy of the inside surface, it will look as clean as can be. Therefore, I would like to withdraw my earlier comment and suggest that x-ray testing is the only tool that will give you the information you seek. What you want to know is if the fault has any depth to it. And x-ray shots will cost an arm and at least two legs.
The other approach is to simply assume that there really is a fault and have it TIG weld repaired.
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