Another trying to decide thread: SP901 vs Predatar [Archive]

liquidsniper

03-08-12, 10:05

I am sure you guys are sick of seeing these threads but I am torn in a decision between these two guns. Here is what I am looking at

I want a 308 AR platform
A. I had an LMT 308 but sold it, miss it
B. I am setup to reload 308
C. Hog Gun
D. I have a 762 suppressor already

Here are the pros and cons of each platform I am seeing

SP 901
Pros
1. Cheaper
2. Colt is a well known operation and large mfg
3. Takes PMAGS
4. Monolithic Upper
5. Comes with BUIS from Factory

Cons
1. Not out yet so no insight into quality, accruacy, reliability etc
2. Weight

Predatar
Pros
1. Well known MFG but small operation
2. Light weight for a 308
3. Takes PMAGS
4. Tube type rail
5. Accurate

Cons
1. LW Profile barrel
2. Function with a suppressor is questionable
3. Comes barebone from the factory, no BUIS etc

Here's the kicker though, I can get the Colt for almost $700 cheaper than the Predatar (sorry can't name the source). $700 is a big chunk of change and can be used for optics, ammo, training etc. However, the weight issue is a source of interest for me. I had an LMT 308, great gun but was one heavy SOB. The colt looks to weigh in around the same weight. The Larue is about 1.5lb lighter than the 901 from what it looks like. If I am going to be using this for 3 gun, hog hunting etc, the weight would be a nice advantage to have, tho the increase in felt recoil could come into play.

I know in the end it comes down to my personal preference, but so far I have no preference. What would you do in my shoes?

ETA: I know some of you will say PredatOBR but for a $1000 more?

JPB

03-08-12, 10:53

I'd take a known entity over speculation any day. LaRue.

Stickman

03-08-12, 12:08

I'd take a known entity over speculation any day...... which would mean Colt with its incredibly long track record.

JPB

03-08-12, 12:28

I'd take a known entity over speculation any day...... which would mean Colt with its incredibly long track record.

Yeah, the All American 2000 and the Double Eagle have demonstrated that even Colt can miss the mark. While their 5.56 guns are the mil spec standard, others have far surpassed them now. I own two Colts, but there are better options now as Colt has sat on their hands and let the industry pass them by. LaRue's 7.62 guns have a known superb track record. Will the Colt? I'll wait and see.

mstennes

03-08-12, 12:50

Why not another MWS?

liquidsniper

03-08-12, 13:54

Why not another MWS?

I considered the MWS with the LM8 version coming out. From what I am seeing MSRP wise though I am sure I can get it for about the same price as the larue maybe a little more . I originally bought my MWS on the first run when they were $2500 and now they are MSRP'd at close to 3k. I am not so sure they knocked enough weight off of it since the bulk of the chassis lies in the upper receiver in front of the magwell where the barrel bolts are. However, I am still a fan on the tube rail for grip purposes. The fact remains though that I will still be paying alot more than the Colt.

The tongue in cheek comments were funny about the standing track of both mfg's. Yes, colt has produced some lemon handguns, however correct me if I am wrong those were on the Colt Commercial side of development. The sp901, based off the cm901 was developed on the Colt Defense (military) side and then ported to the commercial side for a SA version, no?

I think overall both Mfg's have great track records. Both have good customer service from what I have read. Both have a rabid following :D I do own a colt 6933 and love it. However, the larue has always interested me since what they offer is a pretty uniqe firearm. However, the Colt offering is also very unique.

liquidsniper

03-08-12, 14:02

One other thing I noticed, the Larue doesn't offer ambi controls. The LMT has an ambi safety and mag release. The Colt has ambi, safety, mag release, and bolt release.

JPB

03-08-12, 17:59

The tongue in cheek comments were funny about the standing track of both mfg's. Yes, colt has produced some lemon handguns, however correct me if I am wrong those were on the Colt Commercial side of development. The sp901, based off the cm901 was developed on the Colt Defense (military) side and then ported to the commercial side for a SA version, no?

I think overall both Mfg's have great track records. Both have good customer service from what I have read. Both have a rabid following :D I do own a colt 6933 and love it. However, the larue has always interested me since what they offer is a pretty uniqe firearm. However, the Colt offering is also very unique.

I agree with you, both companies have a long standing track record. I’m just saying that the Colt hasn’t even hit the street yet. Folks don’t even really know what the MSRP will be (although you seem to). This whole rifle is shrouded in speculation at this point, yet it is being compared to the well characterized and established LaRue rifles which are acknowledged by many to be performing superbly. Any conversation about the 901 at this point should be a very short one. Yes, I’ve held the thing in my hands a couple of times, so I know the concept exists, the ergonomics are good, can come with a cool digicam pattern, and it’s heavy. I know nothing about how it performs.

REM

03-08-12, 20:46

I had a 901 for T&E and was impressed with the gun. We put about 5k rounds through it with only a couple of malfunctions. These were directly related to the stock PMags we used. The gun worked flawlessly with the Colt supplied magazine.

When I spoke with my contact at Colt, he told me they had Magpul make several small changes to the PMag to run correctly in their gun. I don't know if this has changed in the production guns. The one I had was a prototype.

Another benefit to the 901 is the ability to mount a .223 upper on it. We tested several in this configuration and they also worked without a hitch.

The only complaint I had with the 901 was the hand guard is just too short for my shooting style. Other than that, I would buy one without hesitation. The ambi features worked very well and felt natural. Most of the test shooters commented on these features.

I was also impressed with the Larue rifles, both the OBR and the Predator.

I don't think you can go wrong with either rifle. It just boils down to "which one do I really want?" if budget is a concern go with the Colt. If its not, pick the one that satisfies your craving.

Just my thoughts...

JChops

03-08-12, 21:01

A couple of things because you mentioned weight:

• I would not trust the weights listed on the 901 until someone reliable gets one in-hand and weighs it properly. Colt is notoriously all over the place when they publish/release numbers like this. If the past is any indicator unfortunately they are always on the low side. It could very well roll in heavier.

• The LaRue at 7.5 pounds doesn't include irons, ambi-safety or sling mounts (front or rear). Add another 4 - 6 ounces for these. Remember that these items are not included in the price, either. So you'll actually be closer to $3k versus the $2k Colt here.

• Don't forget the LaRue uses a LW Lothar Walther stainless barrel and the Colt is using a heavier, hammer forged, chrome lined steel barrel. Something to consider either way.

Modification-wise, grab a 901, swap the BUIS / stock for KAC/Magpul and turn the barrel down to a medium profile. Or send it to someone like Marvin and have him dimple it if that's your thing. I bet you'll be within ounces of the PredatAR for $500 less even after all the work.

TXBob

03-10-12, 20:26

Tough choice--

LaRue is backed up to hell and gone on orders. (6 months)
the 901 has been promising delivery since Nov/Dec. Still haven't seen a live one.

I don't have any connections though so neither is an option.

I'd almost be tempted to build of a Rainer Arms set. But then I hate waiting as well. I'm not a fan of any DI 308 at the moment. Mainly because they dont seem to exist in the wild except for DPMS AP4 and the 24 inch Target version.

I have seen LMT MWS and been tempted, but only at prices that might quantify as "less than stellar"

Kitten2-5

03-11-12, 04:02

I'm new to this forum, but I thought I'd throw in my $0.02 anyway. While going though a two week, long range shooting course with Tod Hodnett I was running with the Larue OBR, with an 18in barrel and surefire suppressor, and I was very Impressed with the performance. IDK where you heard That they have questionable functioning with suppressors, they have an adjustable gas block for shooting suppressed or unsuppressed, and I never saw a problem with suppressor use. The weapon didn't really like Pmags very much, but functioned flawlessly with any other magazines. We were consistently pinging 16"x16" steel targets in high winds, at ranges well over 1000 meters with the OBRs, and achieving hits out to a mile.

fourXfour

03-11-12, 16:45

The PredatAR is set up a little differently than the OBR. I believe it has a lower profile gas block and is not adjustable.

I had a brief conversation with Chris Costa about suppressing the 7.62 PredatAR for our SWAT snipers and he said it shouldn't be a problem, just as long as it is not always shooting suppressed. They will probably get a PredatOBR or just a regular OBR, but we were discussing the possibilities of the PredatAR in that role.

However the ability to swap around the 901 is appealing, too bad the Colt Rep won't return calls.

liquidsniper

03-12-12, 16:51

Like fourxfour said, it is the OBR that has the adjustable gas block, not the predatar, the predatobr will have one but that is in the same price range as the OBR.

One thing I have noticed about the Predatar and OBR is resale value is amazing on them so if I got the Predatar and decided to go with a 901 or another 308 I could get close to what I paid. I know both would come with a wait no matter which way I turned.

Out of the available right now, in my hands at the shop, 308 DI AR's the LMT is the best choice. However, having owned one before they are heavy guns.

Also, from rumored weight figures, the PredatOBR is going to weigh in around the same weight as the OBR.

That's good that their is some small but reliable data regarding suppressed firing, I don't plan on firing suppressed all the time, but every now and then it would be nice to be quiet.

Crow Hunter

03-12-12, 18:52

My brother has a Predatar in .308 with an 18" bbl and we have been firing it suppressed for 200 or so rounds using 147gr Port surplus.

No issues so far and surprisingly quiet.

Not as quiet as his bolt action but pretty darn impressive.

duece71

03-12-12, 19:29

liquidsniper

03-14-12, 08:33

My LGS has an LMT for $2300 brand new, on sale right now. I would be surprised if its still there. Why did you sell the LMT in the first place if you don't mind me asking? The LMT is a known quality and hard to beat for the right price.
I sold the LMT due to 3 things.

1. The rifle was set up as a DMR rifle with a PRS. Didn't really feel like taking the time to convert her back.

2. The weight of the gun would not have worked well in 3-gun comps

3. I wanted to cash for other projects at that time.

I went ordered a LaRue Predatat 16 this morning knowing I have a 4-5 month wait ahead of me. If the Colt comes out and is very successful in the mean time, I can always can my order at Larue and pick up the Colt.

TXBob

03-14-12, 10:03

liquidsniper

03-14-12, 10:26

TXBob

03-14-12, 10:53

I just read the same thing.

I won't say where we got the link if you dont....

anyway the original article is here:
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?tag=sp901

And at the site we aren't reading on the CtD rep confirmed that it is indeed a different style PMag. As for if the "Colt PMag" works in the LMT/SR-25/LaRue....anybodies guess until we see the design. Apparently it has to do with the bolt catch in the SR-25 vs the AR-15.

dmancornell

03-15-12, 15:22

I just placed an order for a 18" PredatAR 7.62. I didn't want to wait for the Colt and the SCAR 17 with the obligatory $400 trigger upgrade and magazine supply woes is too much of a headache.

Already have a 7.62 3.5x ACOG waiting, planning to shoot military silhouettes out to 600 yards with surplus ammo. I figure I didn't need the heavier PredatOBR barrel for those goals.

Was told a 16 week wait. I'm not holding my breath.

REM

03-15-12, 20:06

I asked my Colt rep about the magazines being compatible with the SR-25 pattern rifles. He said the majority of the modifications were to make the PMag work with the ambidextrous mag release. I should have a mag sometime next week and will try it in a POF I have access to and see if it works.

JChops

03-15-12, 20:49

NickB @ Magpul just confirmed that the 901 will take regular PMAGs in the other thread right below this one.

Not sure where all this bad info is coming from but you guys need better sources.

Jake'sDad

03-15-12, 23:26

Just read something interesting, that the PMAGS the 901 takes are not the same as current production PMAG 20LR's. They are proprietary in that the mag catch location had to be different so that the gun could use both catches when going back and forth between the 308 and 5.56 mags. So I wonder then if the proprietary mags are compatible with other sr-25 type platforms such as the LMT MWS, SR25 etc.

I just read the same thing.

I won't say where we got the link if you dont....

anyway the original article is here:
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?tag=sp901

And at the site we aren't reading on the CtD rep confirmed that it is indeed a different style PMag. As for if the "Colt PMag" works in the LMT/SR-25/LaRue....anybodies guess until we see the design. Apparently it has to do with the bolt catch in the SR-25 vs the AR-15.

NickB @ Magpul just confirmed that the 901 will take regular PMAGs in the other thread right below this one.

Not sure where all this bad info is coming from but you guys need better sources.

Passing bullshit on is quite the hobby for some guys......

liquidsniper

03-16-12, 11:12

:rolleyes:

Anyways, back on track. Looks like the mag for the 901 is "new" in a sense but not really.

I made my decision though. I ordred a 16in predatar 762 on tuesday. Then of course, Larue started the order for the PredatOBR the next night. So I decided to spend the extra coin and get the heavier profile barrel and the adjustable gas block of the predatOBR. Looks like it only weighs about 3/4 of a pound more than the predatar 762. Looks like I am pretty far up on the list too :) Hopefully in a couple months I can provide some pics and reviews for you guys.

Thanks for the advice and insight

TXBob

03-16-12, 14:27

Passing bullshit on is quite the hobby for some guys......

To whom are you refering. That seems a bit out of line--people found the link, it was refuted by a more reliable source. Drive on. That's why we are here--to get the straight deal.

FWIW Colt has a slightly different spec for the Mag(s) that ship with the 901 but the rifle itself is said to be "Standard 308" PMAG compatible now through various sources. (including the orignal author of the aritcle, who called in contacts for clarification).

Jake'sDad

03-16-12, 22:09

Guess I'd wait for better confirmation than a blog by a internet seller, before I passed on a rumor as fact.

But your point is taken, sorry for the harshness.

Byrd

03-17-12, 16:37

While their 5.56 guns are the mil spec standard, others have far surpassed them now.

Really? Who makes a better M4 than Colt?

JPB

03-17-12, 20:46

Really? Who makes a better M4 than Colt?

I would argue that DD, BCM, and KAC make a superior product. Colt's the standard, but others have chosen to surpass that standard.

Byrd

03-18-12, 17:29

I would argue that DD, BCM, and KAC make a superior product. Colt's the standard, but others have chosen to surpass that standard.

KAC doesn't make an M4. What is your argument for the DD and BCM being "better" than Colt? Are the two brands somehow more adherent to the TDP (which they don't have access to)?

Byrd

03-18-12, 17:34

OP the Larue is most likely more accurate. I suspect LT uses a tighter "match" chamber on their barrels, hence the need for chamber fluting. The Colt is a more combat oriented weapon. Not as refined, but perhaps more rugged.

JPB

03-18-12, 20:46

KAC doesn't make an M4. What is your argument for the DD and BCM being "better" than Colt? Are the two brands somehow more adherent to the TDP (which they don't have access to)?

Forgive me for my loose use of the "M4" designation. Regarding KAC, I'm speaking specifically to the SR-15/16 IWS weapons. KAC's SR-16 Carbine is particularly "M4 like" (carbine gas/14.5" barrel/M203 cut profile) but with the IWS enhancements. I consider an SR-16 Carbine an "M4" (http://www.knightarmco.com/sr16.html). The three I mentioned (Noveske is in this class too, so four) all offer cold hammer forged barrels of several profiles/lengths. They also offer several gas system length and free float rail options. The fact that the Colt 6720 is such a big deal right now is a byproduct of Colt's slow response to the market. Also IMO, the rails and BUIS on some factory Colt models (6940) are second rate. Heck, I'd take the GG&G gas block front BUIS over the one Colt outfits their unit with.

These other manufactures don't strictly adhere to the TDP, they meet or exceed it.