View Full Version : Wow! Ann Barnhardt lets the Koran burn with bacon bookmarkers...
Rmplstlskn
03-08-12, 19:21
Brave woman! I hope she stays safe...
Ann Barnhardt uses bacon for page markers and burns the Koran (http://youtu.be/_LCLDjPNpf4)
Moose-Knuckle
03-08-12, 19:24
LOL! :D
Cagemonkey
03-08-12, 19:44
I'm no fan of the Islamists, but considering we still have troops in Afghanistan who are likely to be targets of retribution, and the fact that the Afghans seem to make it a national pastime to riot about Koran burnings and such, I consider this behavior to irresponsible. Once the US gets out of Afghanistan, I couldn't care less what you do with the Koran, though such disrespect to the Koran is antagonistic and insults moderate, Peaceful Muslims. Just my opinion.
Asshatery. I'd like to keep our moral high ground... because it's easier to kill terrorists from an elevated position.
I'm no fan of the Islamists, but considering we still have troops in Afghanistan who are likely to be targets of retribution, and the fact that the Afghans seem to make it a national pastime to riot about Koran burnings and such, I consider this behavior to irresponsible. Once the US gets out of Afghanistan, I couldn't care less what you do with the Koran, though such disrespect to the Koran is antagonistic and insults moderate, Peaceful Muslims. Just my opinion.
For starters the video was uploaded a year ago and it's not like this is breaking news. Secondly who gives a **** what a bunch of shitbag, illiterate, boy ****ers think about an American exercising their Constitutional rights? Let's all go hide under the covers cause someone might be offended, **** that! The vast majority of those goat herders don't have 2 nickels to rub together much less internet and for the ones who do, then can go **** themselves!
Thirdly, if we weren't in Afghanistan our troops wouldn't have to worry about it in the first place.
kaiservontexas
03-08-12, 21:25
For starters the video was uploaded a year ago and it's not like this is breaking news. Secondly who gives a **** what a bunch of shitbag, illiterate, boy ****ers think about an American exercising their Constitutional rights? Let's all go hide under the covers cause someone might be offended, **** that! The vast majority of those goat herders don't have 2 nickels to rub together much less internet and for the ones who do, then can go **** themselves!
Thirdly, if we weren't in Afghanistan our troops wouldn't have to worry about it in the first place.
I agree. We have a first amendment. Surrendering it because the enemy is not happy with it means we surrendered.
I agree. We have a first amendment. Surrendering it because the enemy is not happy with it means we surrendered.
That's what I meant to say... Even though I think wasting bacon is a crime she should have the right to do it.
buckshot1220
03-08-12, 21:51
I can see both sides on this issue.
On one hand I see it as antagonistic. Antagonizing an enemy who we already know is well capable of inflicting much harm both on and off of U.S. soil, no bueno.
On the other hand, extremists have burned our flag and they've murdered both service members and innocent civilians. So why should I care about burning their holy book, right?
It is tough, especially when you consider that Americans can burn their own flag on U.S. soil without punishment, why should we restrict anything from being burned for that matter?
For starters the video was uploaded a year ago and it's not like this is breaking news. Secondly who gives a **** what a bunch of shitbag, illiterate, boy ****ers think about an American exercising their Constitutional rights? Let's all go hide under the covers cause someone might be offended, **** that! The vast majority of those goat herders don't have 2 nickels to rub together much less internet and for the ones who do, then can go **** themselves!
What he said.
The_War_Wagon
03-08-12, 22:20
That's TERRIBLE!!! :eek:
Wotta WASTE... of perfectly good BACON!!! :sarcastic:
I'm no more upset with burning, urinating, or defecating on the Quran than I am with the same being done to Mein Kampf. I see those two books having similar moral foundations.
For starters the video was uploaded a year ago and it's not like this is breaking news. Secondly who gives a **** what a bunch of shitbag, illiterate, boy ****ers think about an American exercising their Constitutional rights? Let's all go hide under the covers cause someone might be offended, **** that! The vast majority of those goat herders don't have 2 nickels to rub together much less internet and for the ones who do, then can go **** themselves!
Thirdly, if we weren't in Afghanistan our troops wouldn't have to worry about it in the first place.
Yeah, I'm with Irish on this one. Furthermore if every person would sack up and burn a Koran they'd have to have a riot and calls for death all around the clock and wouldn't have time for terrorism. If everyone burned that stupid book there would be nothing unique about it when it happens.
It would be the same non event as if somebody burned a Bible or a US flag.
Poor bacon. I wonder if a "Koran" cooking would provide a more crispy, wholesome taste?
Man, I am gonna burn for that one. NOT trying to offend anyone people!
It's certainly her right to burn the Quran. She is protected under the Constitution and absolutely free to do that, obviously.
But you've got to ask, what is gained by doing it? And what is lost?
A few moments of honest contemplation lead me to say that it's not something that I can stand by. Radical, militant Islam already disdains us. All burning a Quran does is needlessly offend moderate Muslims. Burning the Quran solves nothing. It deepens the roots of our problems. I've said this before and I'll say it again: We (as a nation and as individuals) cannot control the actions of others. We can, however, control our own. You've got to ask, is the juice worth the squeeze?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-09-12, 11:41
Dont throw that tea in the harbor, the British might get mad and kill some troops or attack us.
Dont throw that tea in the harbor, the British might get mad and kill some troops or attack us.
I refuse to believe that a rational person could draw a correlation between these two things. Really think about it and see if that analogy works.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-09-12, 11:47
I refuse to believe that a rational person could draw a correlation between these two things. Really think about it and see if that analogy works.
Continue to be afraid.
Once upon a time there were brave men who werent afraid to do offensive things when others encroached upon their rights. Different situations, same principle.
ETA: The real enemy isnt the unwashed Muslim horde, its the American apologist who cries foul and treason when an American acts within their rights.
Why not look at the root cause of the entire issue?
Continue to be afraid.
Once upon a time there were brave men who werent afraid to do offensive things when others encroached upon their rights. Different situations, same principle.
Afraid? I've put more than my fair share of Taliban and Al-Qaeda dicks in the dirt since the start of the GWOT, choosing to redeploy multiple times after taking enemy inflicted injuries, so you can take your "afraid" stuff and shove it. I'm not into dick measuring, but call me out and you'll get a response.
Explain how a Youtube video of burning the Quran does ANYTHING to prevent an encroachment upon our rights and you'll have won the argument (simply saying that doing it in the first place is a "right," although true, does not work). A logical person would argue that it does the opposite. It is NOTHING like the tea party.
For starters the video was uploaded a year ago and it's not like this is breaking news. Secondly who gives a **** what a bunch of shitbag, illiterate, boy ****ers think about an American exercising their Constitutional rights? Let's all go hide under the covers cause someone might be offended, **** that! The vast majority of those goat herders don't have 2 nickels to rub together much less internet and for the ones who do, then can go **** themselves!
Thirdly, if we weren't in Afghanistan our troops wouldn't have to worry about it in the first place.
Epic post :D...I wonder if the outrage would have been as bad had she eaten the bacon and wiped her ass with the Cur-an.
Reagans Rascals
03-09-12, 12:01
Continue to be afraid.
Once upon a time there were brave men who werent afraid to do offensive things when others encroached upon their rights. Different situations, same principle.
I disagree whole heatedly, the Boston Tea Party was a rebellion against a tyrannical governing body on the grounds to secure new freedoms, therefore it served a purpose.
Burning a Quran or any other holy text for that matter, serves no purpose besides antagonizing another culture simply for spite, because "you have the right to do so".....
the entire act of burning someone else's holy text or flag has no basis within political, or societal endeavors, it is based solely on trying to get a rise out of the other party, while simultaneously proving to the world just how childish and obtusely narcissistic you are in holding the belief that your actions actually hold some positive value to someone, somewhere.
It is completely ridiculous, amoral, unethical, and flat out disrespectful to do something solely to cause someone else pain, and that is all that act is intended to do.
If you do not agree with their culture, then maybe try to enlighten them to your magnificent plight by I don't know..... maybe being nice?
simply because you have the right to do something... does not mean you have reason to do so
just flat out bullshit to think this behavior is acceptable
we were all horrified to witness the celebrating in the street by certain middle eastern nations on 9/11.... so if that behavior is unacceptable, why is it ok for us to do it? Double Standard much? when we engage in those acts, like we did on May 1st last year, our entire struggle against savagery loses all merit and becomes nothing more than 2 shitbags in a drunken bar fight...
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-09-12, 12:10
Afraid? I've put more than my fair share of Taliban and Al-Qaeda dicks in the dirt since the start of the GWOT, choosing to redeploy multiple times after taking enemy inflicted injuries, so you can take your "afraid" stuff and shove it. I'm not into dick measuring, but call me out and you'll get a response.
Explain how a Youtube video of burning the Quran does ANYTHING to prevent an encroachment upon our rights and you'll have won the argument (simply saying that doing it in the first place is a "right," although true, does not work). A logical person would argue that it does the opposite. It is NOTHING like the tea party.
I dont think you are afraid of the Muslims, I dont know anybody here that is. Maybe I spoke too rashly. To me, it just sounds like you may be afraid of offending people unless it has a direct success to the mission. To me, the 1st Ammendment protects all forms of speech, even when they may be offensive. If our elected leaders will not stand for our actions when they are protected by the Constitution, then they are the enemy to fear.
An excercising of our right builds the constitutional muscle. Thats all I need. Of course its not the same situation as the B Tea Party, but its the same principle.
TriumphRat675
03-09-12, 12:17
I guess I don't understand the point of doing something really, really offensive to the deeply held beliefs of...anyone, really, just in order to be offensive.
You can exercise free speech without being discourteous. Why be a jerk about it?
Reagans Rascals
03-09-12, 12:18
I dont think you are afraid of the Muslims, I dont know anybody here that is. Maybe I spoke too rashly. To me, it just sounds like you may be afraid of offending people unless it has a direct success to the mission. To me, the 1st Ammendment protects all forms of speech, even when they may be offensive. If our elected leaders will not stand for our actions when they are protected by the Constitution, then they are the enemy to fear.
An excercising of our right builds the constitutional muscle. Thats all I need. Of course its not the same situation as the B Tea Party, but its the same principle.
Do you have any knowledge of US history whatsoever? because clearly you do not.
you know.... as in freedom from religious persecution? one of the very bedrocks that this country was founded upon...... in fact the very reason for the creation of the colonies in the first place..
I think the founding fathers would not have given their lives, so you could have the "freedom" to threat others like shit simply because you disagree... its a completely fallacy to even try to defend your point any further, just pop smoke and stop.
It's certainly her right to burn the Quran. She is protected under the Constitution and absolutely free to do that, obviously.
But you've got to ask, what is gained by doing it? And what is lost?
A few moments of honest contemplation lead me to say that it's not something that I can stand by. Radical, militant Islam already disdains us. All burning a Quran does is needlessly offend moderate Muslims. Burning the Quran solves nothing. It deepens the roots of our problems. I've said this before and I'll say it again: We (as a nation and as individuals) cannot control the actions of others. We can, however, control our own. You've got to ask, is the juice worth the squeeze?
Tactically and strategically I agree to a certain point. Still it doesn't make one feel satisfied knowing that those throwbacks are already in a state of perpetual outrage and are looking for any excuse to manifest their murderous hysteria. At some point no cultural pushback just demonstrates to that rabble that they are dealing with a culture that is unable or unwilling to ultimately defend itself, and I just see this as inviting even more cultural bullying and exploitation of our civil liberties so that we become increasingly submissive to their cultural norms, even when they immigrate to our part of the world.
Part of the problem is demonstrated by the following: a Christian wouldn't be considered moderate if he was one burned bible away from becoming extremist. Even the moderate Muslims need to understand that if they choose to live in the US they have to accept unpolite expressions of speech and expression.
But true, having said that, certain acts like burning a Koran or drawing a pic of Muhamad with a bomb in his turban will likely result in more violent Muslim outbursts, that is almost a given.
I'd like to keep our moral high ground... because it's easier to kill terrorists from an elevated position. :haha:
That's sig line material!
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-09-12, 12:30
Do you have any knowledge of US history whatsoever? because clearly you do not.
you know.... as in freedom from religious persecution? one of the very bedrocks that this country was founded upon...... in fact the very reason for the creation of the colonies in the first place..
I think the founding fathers would not have given their lives, so you could have the "freedom" to threat others like shit simply because you disagree... its a completely fallacy to even try to defend your point any further, just pop smoke and stop.
Please educate me on the following:
What is it about burning a religious item that is persecution?
Is it persecution to burn a flag?
Do you believe the founding fathers would support legislation to stop anyone from using religious materials in a protest?
Is burning a religious item to protest an apologetic government considered religious persecution?
If you could, just answer the questions and try not to see anything between the lines where it is not.
Reagans Rascals
03-09-12, 12:39
Please educate me on the following:
What is it about burning a religious item that is persecution?
When it's sole purpose is to upset others, with the prime motive of spite and disdain, as in this case
Is it persecution to burn a flag?
see post above
Do you believe the founding fathers would support legislation to stop anyone from using religious materials in a protest?
this is not a religious protest, this is an attack aimed at achieving nothing more than the anger of the opposing religion
Is burning a religious item to protest an apologetic government considered religious persecution?
yes, because religion has no basis for an "apologetic government", our government is once again trying to cover your ass for your stupid behavior to prevent an escalation of violence, has your "apologetic government" prosecuted you for exercising your rights by burning the Quran? NO... they simply tried to calm down the shit storm you created by doing so
If you could, just answer the questions and try not to see anything between the lines where it is not.
Now you explain, logically, how burning a Quran, is a legitimate protest and is not intended to offend those of the Islamic Faith? And try not to cloud the water with some half-assed attempt to correlate burning the Quran as some type of symbol that represents the governments denial of your rights.
if its a protest for your rights, why not burn a US Flag, or a Bible?.... or even better... why not burn a copy of the Bill of Rights? that to me seems fitting for a rights protest.... explain how the Quran has anything to do with this? How does the main religious text of another country have anything to do with your rights here?
trying to correlate the 2, is like trying to claim you beat your wife because unemployment is too high in Scottsdale.....
since we all know Muslims react violently to this type of behavior, explain why your choice to "exercise your rights" should be worth a mans life? essentially... by your doing so... you have incited violence... and that my friend... is Illegal...
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-09-12, 13:22
this is not a religious protest, this is an attack aimed at achieving nothing more than the anger of the opposing religion
yes, because religion has no basis for an "apologetic government", our government is once again trying to cover your ass for your stupid behavior to prevent an escalation of violence, has your "apologetic government" prosecuted you for exercising your rights by burning the Quran? NO... they simply tried to calm down the shit storm you created by doing so
Looks like you wont answer my questions without attempting to find something between the lines. Mind answering them for me and educating me?
Do you believe the founding fathers would support legislation to stop anyone from using religious materials in a protest?
Is burning a religious item to protest an apologetic government considered religious persecution?
Personally, Ive never burned a Koran, Ive never burned a Bible, Ive never so much as turned our flag upside down. Thats silly to claim that I have. I'd rather not get blown up while over here because someone wanted to burn a book. But, I love that I live in a country where people can protest my funeral, can burn the book that I worship out of, can burn the flag I salute, and can protest those that are in authority over us. I dont agree with anyone of those things, but Im terrified of living in a place that doesnt allow it.
Now you explain, logically, how burning a Quran, is a legitimate protest and is not intended to offend those of the Islamic Faith? And try not to cloud the water with some half-assed attempt to correlate burning the Quran as some type of symbol that represents the governments denial of your rights.
Burning a Quran can be a legitimate protest. If someone were displeased with the Christian right and how they were able to pass a law that restricted rights of a certain group, would burning a bible in protest not be a protest? If someone were displeased with a certain sect of Jews and an action they took, would burning a Torah in protest not be a protest? If someone was displeased that a certain sect of Islam carries out cowardice acts of terror in the name of Islam, and then burned a Quran in protest, is that not a protest?
If I were to burn a Quran, and I wouldnt, I would do it to protest the actions of a few cowardice indivduals in our government. Is this not a protest? Is it up to you who can protest and who can not?
if its a protest for your rights, why not burn a US Flag, or a Bible?.... or even better... why not burn a copy of the Bill of Rights? that to me seems fitting for a rights protest.... explain how the Quran has anything to do with this? How does the main religious text of another country have anything to do with your rights here?
Can you show me the list of approved items to burn during a protest? Can you point me to the law that tells us what we can agree and disagree with?
trying to correlate the 2, is like trying to claim you beat your wife because unemployment is too high in Scottsdale.....
Again, where is the approved list of actions that may anger one enough to lead them to protest? Do you believe that American citizens may only protest in ways that are agreeable to all parties?
since we all know Muslims react violently to this type of behavior, explain why your choice to "exercise your rights" should be worth a mans life? essentially... by your doing so... you have incited violence... and that my friend... is Illegal...
And you have just defended the very people who kill cartoonists for drawing a charicature of Mohammed.
I want to quote this again as it really stood out to me:
since we all know Muslims react violently to this type of behavior, explain why your choice to "exercise your rights" should be worth a mans life? essentially... by your doing so... you have incited violence... and that my friend... is Illegal...
Should we live in fear of people that kill because they are offended? Should we keep quiet, censor our text, erase our cartoons, etc in fear that somewhere a group exists that will try to kill someone because their feelings are hurt?
Do you have any knowledge of US history whatsoever? because clearly you do not.
you know.... as in freedom from religious persecution? one of the very bedrocks that this country was founded upon
Burning bibles and korans does not persecute anyone, it is actually protected expression.
When it's sole purpose is to upset others, with the prime motive of spite and disdain, as in this case
Actually it is to express outrage at the actions of the people you claim it seeks to upset.
Reagans Rascals
03-09-12, 13:43
Actually it is to express outrage at the actions of the people you claim it seeks to upset.
that makes zero sense..... so because I don't like you or your actions... I will protest my government caving into your threats, by burning your religious text
if you want to express outrage, why not hold up pictures of the atrocities they have perpetrated and actually show what it is you are upset about.... how is anyone supposed to derive your message when its clearly not visible
not one bit of anything any of you have said in support if this makes one god damn bit of sense, its all just convoluted circle speak
"I burn your book to show my government that I am upset with you and that I don't like how they are apologetic for my burning your book because I am upset with you and my government for being apologetic... and so on and son"
shit.... can someone please help me out here with some logic
Continue to be afraid.
Once upon a time there were brave men who weren't afraid to do offensive things when others encroached upon their rights. Different situations, same principle.
ETA: The real enemy isn't the unwashed Muslim horde, its the American apologist who cries foul and treason when an American acts within their rights.
I've always said I may disagree with what you're saying, but I'll defend your right to say it. I do support her 1st Amendment rights, but in this case I'd have to defer to a0cake's 1st hand experience of the current situation. I may not agree with that either, but his assessment isn't without merit.
Simply put, we have no more Black Jack Pershings. We don't even have a Teddy Roosevelt left in our "modern" political system. It's common that despite what you think, you'll have to give a little to get along.
We aren't in Afghanistan to kill militant muslims. If we were, all we'd have to do is burn a Koran in the middle of the street and kill anyone who went nuts over the act. Honestly, I don't think we're over there for any real purpose at this point. We're buying time while we try to figure out how to extricate ourselves without looking like we lost. Every American death over there between now and then is a tragedy. A needless death that buys our country no more freedom than we had on 9/11. Anything that adds to that death toll should be avoided like the plague.
Perhaps instead of burning the Koran, Ms. Barnhardt should be burning the US Constitution and a copy of the Congressional Record. :(
Reagans Rascals
03-09-12, 13:51
Do you believe the founding fathers would support legislation to stop anyone from using religious materials in a protest?
Did I ever say they would? I never stated there should be legislation to prevent that. I do however, believe they would have a problem with the use of religious materials in a non religious protest.... you know... the whole church and state thing.... but if it is used in a religious protest... explain how that is not a persecution against those of the other faith?
Is burning a religious item to protest an apologetic government considered religious persecution?
IS burning a Quran a protest towards an apologetic government? Elaborate...
Personally, Ive never burned a Koran, Ive never burned a Bible, Ive never so much as turned our flag upside down. Thats silly to claim that I have. I'd rather not get blown up while over here because someone wanted to burn a book. But, I love that I live in a country where people can protest my funeral, can burn the book that I worship out of, can burn the flag I salute, and can protest those that are in authority over us. I dont agree with anyone of those things, but Im terrified of living in a place that doesnt allow it.
I want to quote this again as it really stood out to me:
Should we live in fear of people that kill because they are offended? Should we keep quiet, censor our text, erase our cartoons, etc in fear that somewhere a group exists that will try to kill someone because their feelings are hurt?
The main problem every single one of you have, is accountability. We're not accountable for anything we do as long as its "within our rights."
the bottom line is
THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CAN AND SHOULD
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-09-12, 13:54
that makes zero sense..... so because I don't like you or your actions... I will protest my government caving into your threats, by burning your religious text
if you want to express outrage, why not hold up pictures of the atrocities they have perpetrated and actually show what it is you are upset about.... how is anyone supposed to derive your message when its clearly not visible
not one bit of anything any of you have said in support if this makes one god damn bit of sense, its all just convoluted circle speak
"I burn your book to show my government that I am upset with you and that I don't like how they are apologetic "
shit.... can someone please help me out here with some logic
Some people burn a flag to show displeasure with the US. Some people burn a Koran to show displeasure with Muslims or Islam. Why cant you understand any of this. Are you daft?
ETA: Mr. Rascal, I dont feel you have a good understanding of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. I wont be voting for as a judge, as Im sure you wouldnt vote for me because I stand for a broad view of personal freedom. Have a great night brother, Im gonna hit the rack as it's almost midnight in this region of the world.
Reagans Rascals
03-09-12, 14:00
Some people burn a flag to show displeasure with the US. Some people burn a Koran to show displeasure with Muslims or Islam. Why cant you understand any of this. Are you daft?
Are you apathetic?
Because its your right, damn the feelings of anyone else right? Doesn't matter if you SHOULD do it, but since you can you will... yeah that's a productive mindset we need in this country
**** it.... since I can get welfare I shouldn't work...
ETA: I'm not arguing against the right for expression, freedom or speech or anything else within the Bill of Rights... I am arguing against the mindset that simply because legally you are allowed to do something, you SHOULD do something... regardless of what anyone else thinks
I can legally open carry my MK18/M203 in town if I so choose.... does that mean I SHOULD?
stop thinking in terms of rights, and start think in terms of appropriateness......
that makes zero sense..... so because I don't like you or your actions... I will protest my government caving into your threats, by burning your religious text
if you want to express outrage, why not hold up pictures of the atrocities they have perpetrated and actually show what it is you are upset about.... how is anyone supposed to derive your message when its clearly not visible
not one bit of anything any of you have said in support if this makes one god damn bit of sense, its all just convoluted circle speak
"I burn your book to show my government that I am upset with you and that I don't like how they are apologetic for my burning your book because I am upset with you and my government for being apologetic... and so on and son"
shit.... can someone please help me out here with some logic
I would explain it further but I suspect you have your mind made up and as a result will misunderstand most of the clarifications so I'm gonna save us both some time and effort.
Reagans Rascals
03-09-12, 14:21
I would explain it further but I suspect you have your mind made up and as a result will misunderstand most of the clarifications so I'm gonna save us both some time and effort.
I'm more than able to be swayed by the logical rebuttal.... enlighten me.
My stance: Freedom of Speech/ Expression is and should be legal. Those within the US should be free to exercise their rights whenever they see fit without hindrance from the government. However, I believe we as a nation should pride ourselves on our candor and should abstain from things we know to be unnecessarily insidious. Those in this nation should ask themselves "is this morally appropriate?", "Although I have the right to do this, should I do it? or might there be an alternative that is better suited in this situation." Much like the days of the KKK burning crosses aimed at those of color, they may have the right to do so, but there were better suited alternatives available. Its called tact. You get more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar....
Your Rebuttal:
My issue with the Quran is that it is simultaneously a religious, political, and legal document that mandates some evil shit from its followers and governments. Hence the frequent use of the country title the "Islamic Republic of..."
Contrast this with the New Testimate (I have little use for the Old) which is largely a roadmap for personal redemption without prescribing government mandates. This is especially true if you focus on the actual words of Jesus and ignore the other portions. Much of the violence sparked by Christianity has been due to a twisted perversion of its teachings rather than the direct calls to violence that litters the Quran. That is to say, I struggle to find a portion of the NT where Jesus puts out a literal call to arms against non-believers like Mohammad.
Bottom line, Islamsits have been at war with the Western world for several centuries. I'm under no delusions that being nice or respecting their abomination of a social contract will gain us any favor in their eyes.
Reagans Rascals
03-09-12, 14:37
My issue with the Quran is that it is simultaneously a religious, political, and legal document that mandates some evil shit from its followers and governments. Hence the frequent use of the country title the "Islamic Republic of..."
Contrast this with the New Testimate (I have little use for the Old) which is largely a roadmap for personal redemption without prescribing government mandates. This is especially true if you focus on the actual words of Jesus and ignore the other portions. Much of the violence sparked by Christianity has been due to a twisted perversion of its teachings rather than the direct calls to violence that litters the Quran. That is to say, I struggle to find a portion of the NT where Jesus puts out a literal call to arms against non-believers like Mohammad.
Bottom line, Islamsits have been at war with the Western world for several centuries. I'm under no delusions that being nice or respecting their abomination of a social contract will gain us any favor in their eyes.
Extremists see things in their own light, in any organization...
"When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)
"When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you... Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy 20:10-17)
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, sparefor yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)
as opposed to:
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves." (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)
sounds awfully similar to me....
Extremists see things in their own light, in any organization...
"When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)
"When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you... Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy 20:10-17)
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, sparefor yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)
as opposed to:
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves." (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)
sounds awfully similar to me....
Maybe I did not put enough emphasis on my view that the Old Testimate is largely crap. Granted, it is less smelly crap than the Quran, but still crap. A re-read of my post will show that I was talking about the New Testimate (and mainly the actual quotes from Jesus that are found in the Gospels) that forms the backbone of Christianity. Although I loosely consider myself Christian, I have no use for the OT.
Reagans Rascals
03-09-12, 14:59
Maybe I did not put enough emphasis on my view that the Old Testimate is largely crap. Granted, it is less smelly crap than the Quran, but still crap. A re-read of my post will show that I was talking about the New Testimate (and mainly the actual quotes from Jesus that are found in the Gospels) that forms the backbone of Christianity. Although I loosely consider myself Christian, I have no use for the OT.
I understand that, however... you can't pick and choose which parts of your religion are applicable while refuting the entirety of another.... all or none....
like I said.... extremists see things in their own light... on both sides... much like conspiracy theorists... they hear, see, and read what validates their own pov
montanadave
03-09-12, 15:27
There are always going to be dipshits like Ms. Barnhardt who are willing to write big checks because they know someone else is going to end up cashing them.
If she had the courage of her convictions, she wouldn't post her offensive actions on YouTube, she'd go burn a ****ing Koran in downtown Cairo.
The Constitution undoubtedly protects the rights of people who choose to do stupid shit. But, as has been previously noted, there can be miles between "can" and "should."
There are always going to be dipshits like Ms. Barnhardt who are willing to write big checks because they know someone else is going to end up cashing them.
If she had the courage of her convictions, she wouldn't post her offensive actions on YouTube, she'd go burn a ****ing Koran in downtown Cairo.
The Constitution undoubtedly protects the rights of people who choose to do stupid shit. But, as has been previously noted, there can be miles between "can" and "should."
whatever dude...youtube is the new social media and a way to get the word out. What you're saying is madness.....She seems to have a good handle on what those fukers are up to and is blowing the whistle....I agree with her 100%
kaiservontexas
03-09-12, 17:28
http://barnhardt.biz/contact.cfm
She has her address online on her own webpage, and has already told them to come find her and kill her.
montanadave
03-09-12, 18:55
http://barnhardt.biz/contact.cfm
She has her address online on her own webpage, and has already told them to come find her and kill her.
Great! So now we've got our religious whackjobs making suicide martyr videos just like their religious whackjobs.
Now if we could just corral them all in one place and leave the rest of us out of it we'd be making some real progress.
RancidSumo
03-09-12, 19:09
I had planned a longer post than this but I was beat to the punch so I'll just repeat what was said before. Just because she has the right to do it doesn't mean she should. I'm not saying it should be illegal just that it accomplishes NOTHING good.
We just had a long thread centered around Christianity that didn't go downhill too badly so I know it isn't all religion that's doing it. It must just be discussions of any religion that the majority here doesn't believe in (and knows very little about apparently) that cause people to toss their brains out the window and start acting like a bunch of retarded five year olds.
Cagemonkey
03-09-12, 19:22
For starters the video was uploaded a year ago and it's not like this is breaking news. Secondly who gives a **** what a bunch of shitbag, illiterate, boy ****ers think about an American exercising their Constitutional rights? Let's all go hide under the covers cause someone might be offended, **** that! The vast majority of those goat herders don't have 2 nickels to rub together much less internet and for the ones who do, then can go **** themselves!
Thirdly, if we weren't in Afghanistan our troops wouldn't have to worry about it in the first place.First, I agree Afghanistan is a lost cause and the US has nothing to gain by being their any longer. Secondly, I have no problems being non PC and exercising ones 1st amendment rights. I just don't see any reason be offensive just for the sake of it. What the Muslims want to do amongst themselves is their own business. I agree that Islam is brutal and militant by nature. So isn't much of the Bible depending on how its interpreted. Fear has nothing to do with it. If you want to wage an endless war against Islam, go for it. I just think its ironic for an ardent Ron Paul supported to be so militant. Thirdly, excuse me for my ignorance as to when this video was posted on Youtube.
I understand that, however... you can't pick and choose which parts of your religion are applicable while refuting the entirety of another.... all or none....
like I said.... extremists see things in their own light... on both sides... much like conspiracy theorists... they hear, see, and read what validates their own pov
It is precisely all or none thinking that makes people extremist.
One of the perks of Christianity is that following the teachings of Christ does not require one to strictly adhere to the rules of the Old Testimate. That is why you do not see Christians obeying Kosher, observing Jewish holidays, or "killing every male among the little ones" like The Book of Numbers prescribes. True, most Christian demoninations recognize the OT as the word of God, but Jesus provided an alternative path to salvation that did not involve the slaughter of innocent people. The same cannot be said about Muhommed and his piece of militant propaganda.
Personally, I'm still struggling with the concept of the Trinity that is the foundation of Christianity as a religion. However, I can find no fault with humanity of Jesus as a philosopher and his teachings about individual behavior. What I can find is a stark contrast with the rigid social construct that the Quran prescribes for its followers and non-believers.
Delete. These things always turn ugly.
Delete. I'm just going to stay out of these religion threads.
Reagans Rascals
03-10-12, 05:16
There are always going to be dipshits like Ms. Barnhardt who are willing to write big checks because they know someone else is going to end up cashing them.
If she had the courage of her convictions, she wouldn't post her offensive actions on YouTube, she'd go burn a ****ing Koran in downtown Cairo.
The Constitution undoubtedly protects the rights of people who choose to do stupid shit. But, as has been previously noted, there can be miles between "can" and "should."
precisely my stance... excellent post.
she writes her address online with these videos because she knows she will be shielded by the blanket of freedom provided by the very men she actually endangers with her actions.... the US will protect me... so **** it I'll make an ass out of myself and just throw flame onto the fire for absolutely no reason... but hey... if I claim its just a protest... I guess there's nothing wrong with it right?
I don't understand how some of you can be so blinded by hatred for another group of people simply because of their religion.... the extremists are not the entirety of Islam... so you are chastising an entire race of people for the actions of a minuscule minority...
If you don't like Islam, don't practice it...
I lost 4 uncles in the FDNY on 9/11, I have lost 9 friends through out the course of the WOT... I would trade places with any of you in Afghanistan right now no questions asked but unfortunately it is not an option.. Because I believe in the merit of our cause, that violent protests (terrorism) or those protests that incite unnecessary violence or pain (burning religious texts in some circumstances) are not going to be tolerated anywhere in the world as long as we're on watch... that the world shall be free from persecution, oppression, and savagery.... when we engage in the very behaviors we are fighting against.... why are we even fighting?
What type of message does it send to the rest of the world, how does it sway others to our cause, for them to see us going to war for atrocious behavior and castigate others, while at the same time our citizens engage in the very same behaviors?....
How can you win hearts and minds, when you could care less where those hearts and minds lie.......
If we engage in the same behavior as those we are fighting, our fight is no longer in the name of good, it's just 2 assholes fighting in the street...
All that is necessary for the festering of evil, is the mere societal indifference to malevolent behavior.... - J.W.M.
Great video! Good for her!
Interesting how some of you think burning a book is the same as flying a plane into a building killing thousands beheading people for no other reason then they were not their religion ?
Blowing up children raping young boys killing woman for no reason ?
So burning a book puts us on their level ?
To say she is a coward for doing it here ? It's her country why should she go there ?
when these people kill innocent people hide in schools and churches they are the frigin cowards ! You ever notice they all wear masks ? afraid to show their face ? Why ?
She has more balls than they do !
Fact is They think you should die or be their slave ?
Reagans Rascals
03-10-12, 10:54
Interesting how some of you think burning a book is the same as flying a plane into a building killing thousands beheading people for no other reason then they were not their religion ?
Blowing up children raping young boys killing woman for no reason ?
So burning a book puts us on their level ?
To say she is a coward for doing it here ? It's her country why should she go there ?
when these people kill innocent people hide in schools and churches they are the frigin cowards ! You ever notice they all wear masks ? afraid to show their face ? Why ?
She has more balls than they do !
Fact is They think you should die or be their slave ?
and that's every single person of the Islamic faith right? so with the logic presented here... I'm well within my rights to shoot any person I see wearing muslim garb because they are hell bent on killing us all.... so I can preemptively defend myself right?
First, I agree Afghanistan is a lost cause and the US has nothing to gain by being their any longer. Secondly, I have no problems being non PC and exercising ones 1st amendment rights. I just don't see any reason be offensive just for the sake of it. What the Muslims want to do amongst themselves is their own business. I agree that Islam is brutal and militant by nature. So isn't much of the Bible depending on how its interpreted. Fear has nothing to do with it. If you want to wage an endless war against Islam, go for it. I just think its ironic for an ardent Ron Paul supported to be so militant. Thirdly, excuse me for my ignorance as to when this video was posted on Youtube.
I know it may have come off that way but I wasn't trying to be a dick. I think what she did was stupid, a waste of time, money and bacon. I think she's a dumb broad looking for attention and she got it. There are much more constructive ways of bringing about change in people's opinion and intentionally trying to raise their hackles isn't the best way.
However, in America I will defend her freedom of speech and expression no matter how offensive it may be to some realigious zealot half a world away or in her own backyard.
To you guys who say this woman is an idiot, are you the same guys who defend those ****ing jihad pieces of shit when they are burning our flag & burning our bibles? "Yea it's not right but it's their 1A right."
**** that. Tit for tat. If I had a koran here now, I'd wipe my ass with it.
And BTW, those jihad bastards you defend would love nothing more than to see you dead. It's very black & white to them. Either you are one of them or you are their enemy. Don't let political correctness grab you by the balls.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-10-12, 11:33
precisely my stance... excellent post.
she writes her address online with these videos because she knows she will be shielded by the blanket of freedom provided by the very men she actually endangers with her actions.... the US will protect me... so **** it I'll make an ass out of myself and just throw flame onto the fire for absolutely no reason... but hey... if I claim its just a protest... I guess there's nothing wrong with it right?
An American should only be able to speak freely if they give up the blanket of protection afforded to them under the constitution? An American citizen should have to leave the confines of these United States in order to speak their mind?
I don't understand how some of you can be so blinded by hatred for another group of people simply because of their religion.... the extremists are not the entirety of Islam... so you are chastising an entire race of people for the actions of a minuscule minority...
If only the Executive branch is doing something that I disagree with, do I not have the right to protest because the legislative and judicial are doing an A-OK job?
If you don't like Islam, don't practice it...
If we dont like something, we should simply ignore it? Im certainly glad that those opposed to radical fascism did something about it in the 1930-40's.
I lost 4 uncles in the FDNY on 9/11, I have lost 9 friends through out the course of the WOT... I would trade places with any of you in Afghanistan right now no questions asked but unfortunately it is not an option.. Because I believe in the merit of our cause, that violent protests (terrorism) or those protests that incite unnecessary violence or pain (burning religious texts in some circumstances) are not going to be tolerated anywhere in the world as long as we're on watch... that the world shall be free from persecution, oppression, and savagery.... when we engage in the very behaviors we are fighting against.... why are we even fighting?
I believe you are attempting to oppress those who wish to protest under the confines of the United States Constitution. Again, cite in an educated way how burning a book in protest by an individual equates to religious persecution.
What type of message does it send to the rest of the world, how does it sway others to our cause, for them to see us going to war for atrocious behavior and castigate others, while at the same time our citizens engage in the very same behaviors?....
What line do we draw when it comes to personal freedoms in order to look good to other countries?
How can you win hearts and minds, when you could care less where those hearts and minds lie.......
Is it every US citizens job to win hearts and minds? Must they all take an oath to the Consitution in order to recieve protection under it?
If we engage in the same behavior as those we are fighting, our fight is no longer in the name of good, it's just 2 assholes fighting in the street...
Can you please give at least a link to the last time we beheaded enemy combatants? How about the last time we beheaded muslims simply for their faith? What about the last time we killed anyone for their faith because someone 5000 miles away burned a bible or flag?
All that is necessary for the festering of evil, is the mere societal indifference to malevolent behavior.... - J.W.M.
My replies in red. If you do attempt to answer them, please do not do as you have everytime in the past. Just answer the questions.
Reagans Rascals
03-10-12, 11:40
To you guys who say this woman is an idiot, are you the same guys who defend those ****ing jihad pieces of shit when they are burning our flag & burning our bibles? "Yea it's not right but it's their 1A right."
**** that. Tit for tat. If I had a koran here now, I'd wipe my ass with it.
And BTW, those jihad bastards you defend would love nothing more than to see you dead. It's very black & white to them. Either you are one of them or you are their enemy. Don't let political correctness grab you by the balls.
You honestly need to calm down.
Not one single person here has defended anything anyone has done.
What has been stated numerous times, is that doing this serves no purpose whatsoever, nothing good can come from it all at, if anything it only makes things worse... when anyone does it, Chrisitian or Muslim. Once again, simply because you can, doesn't mean you should.
It's childish and in poor taste, it demonstrates that you've never learned how to relate to others and interact with those who are different, and how to deal with things that upset you rationally.
And FYI, I could honestly care less if they burned a bible or a US flag, or even wiped their ass with our constitution.... because those are just objects and doing so isn't violent, when it becomes violent, it becomes unacceptable.
People become way too absorbed with literal and symbolic undertones, none of which actually matter.....
That woman is a moron, and brings down the morality of our country as a whole.
Reagans Rascals
03-10-12, 11:44
My replies in red. If you do attempt to answer them, please do not do as you have everytime in the past. Just answer the questions.
I will reply in full to any question you have, when you can tell me what legitimate end is served by burning a Quran. What actual outcome is sought by doing so? Please refrain from using things such as "because its freedom of expression", or "its symbolic of _____" and "because its our right to do so."
Just simply tell us all what purpose burning any book, or flag serves?
What is the desired outcome?
You should have to right to do anything short of physically hurting someone or someones property in protest. The issue is, is what you are doing actually aimed at achieving a resolution, or is it just bitching to bitch, is it just to cause an uproar... in that case... you may have the right to do so... but you should have the decency not to, once again its called tact.... as in... does what I am doing actually serve my cause?
this is my OPINION... not National Law.... nor should it be... I am opining as to the character of those doing the protest, not to their right to do so. They can do whatever they like, as is guaranteed by our Constitution, I am simply addressing them as individuals on an decency level.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with your rights, or anyone trying to cover them up, oppress them, or prevent you from exercising them... it has to do with integrity, and moral fortitude to make the ethical choice.
does this country suffer from lack of impulse control? Simply because you want something, doesn't mean you need it.
thopkins22
03-10-12, 11:49
Personally, I'm still struggling with the concept of the Trinity that is the foundation of Christianity as a religion.
It's not necessarily the foundation. Maybe you should be Unitarian. You're also in good company, Jefferson said the trinity didn't make any sense for a supposed monotheistic religion.
ETA: The video in question? Strikes me as an extremely white trash publicity stunt...which of course she has the right to do. I find her as a person to be quite offensive, and would not invite her into my home. Of course, there is no such thing as a right to not be offended...so she can drive on. If hell exists, I expect her to be there standing side by side with the Muslims she likes to offend.
You honestly need to calm down.
Not one single person here has defended anything anyone has done.
What has been stated numerous times, is that doing this serves no purpose whatsoever, nothing good can come from it all at, if anything it only makes things worse... when anyone does it, Chrisitian or Muslim. Once again, simply because you can, doesn't mean you should.
It's childish and in poor taste, it demonstrates that you've never learned how to relate to others and interact with those who are different, and how to deal with things that upset you rationally.
And FYI, I could honestly care less if they burned a bible or a US flag, or even wiped their ass with our constitution.... because those are just objects and doing so isn't violent, when it becomes violent, it becomes unacceptable.
People become way too absorbed with literal and symbolic undertones, none of which actually matter.....
That woman is a moron, and brings down the morality of our country as a whole.
What an amazing display or political correctness! Bravo! I'm sure you are very proud of yourself.
Reagans Rascals
03-10-12, 12:04
What an amazing display or political correctness! Bravo! I'm sure you are very proud of yourself.
it's post like this, that result in the closing of threads.
lets try and keep it on track
ETA: I am all for ****ing up those that try to harm you and your's physically, by all means drop 'em..... but to have the attitude of "they did it to me so I'll do it to them" is so obtuse its not even comprehensible.
I believe Gandhi said... An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.......
Just stating the obvious.
Reagans Rascals
03-10-12, 12:14
Just stating the obvious.
if it is indeed obvious, your stating so is superfluous, therefore completely unnecessary
kinda like calling the kettle black ya know?
and I wouldn't call choosing to abstain from spiteful, childish mannerisms (such as burning someone else's holy text) because I didn't get my way, "being gripped by the balls by political correctness".... I believe its called maturity
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-10-12, 12:33
I will reply in full to any question you have, when you can tell me what legitimate end is served by burning a Quran. What actual outcome is sought by doing so? Please refrain from using things such as "because its freedom of expression", or "its symbolic of _____" and "because its our right to do so."
I suppose I'll have to be vague, as my only answer is this: I took an oath to defend the people of our country from enemies both foreign and domestic. I took an oath to support and uphold the constitution of these United States. In that constitution it gives every citizen the right to free speech, and burning that Quran is covered and protected speech. Therefore, it is my duty to protect that woman, whether or not I agree with her.
It is not my role, your role, the presidents role, or anyone elses to define a peaceable protest and why someone should do it. That is clearly defined for us. I do not have to justify her actions because they are not illegal. I'll have to do what you asked me not to, its freedom of expression, freedom of assembly, and the right to free speech.
Like you said, there is certainly a difference between can and should. But both of those are protected in this case, and therefore she will recieve the full protection of the United States.
Just simply tell us all what purpose burning any book, or flag serves?
What is the desired outcome?
Publicity, education, change, awareness. What purpose does any other protest serve?
As our own government attempts to rob us of our own rights at every turn, I applaud any citizen that excercises their constitutional rights. Whether you turn down a TSA scan, buy a gun, join occupy whatever, protest the occupy movement, say "God hates troops/fags", burn a Quran, etc, you are only strengthening the constitutional power by excercising it.
Army Chief
03-10-12, 12:37
Gentlemen,
Civility will be maintained.
You can do it, or the site staff can do it.
Your choice.
AC
Reagans Rascals
03-10-12, 12:52
As our own government attempts to rob us of our own rights at every turn, I applaud any citizen that excercises their constitutional rights. Whether you turn down a TSA scan, buy a gun, join occupy whatever, protest the occupy movement, say "God hates troops/fags", burn a Quran, etc, you are only strengthening the constitutional power by excercising it.
The fact we have the rights to do so is not in question. We have them, and we can use them as we see fit, without fear of retribution, as it should be.
My entire opinion on this matter, is focused entirely upon the why.
Forget the fact of exercising rights, and freedom to do so.
I am simply asking as one human being to another, why is it ok to engage in acts based solely on malice? Which we can be more than sure is her sole intent, to show her hatred for those of the Islamic faith, because she is racist, not in the sense of discrimination, but in the facet of lumping an entire race together based on the actions a minuscule minority.
In my opinion, this serves no purpose outside of upsetting the opposing viewers.
Things can be better achieved without the use of negative reinforcement.
I believe if we worked together with those Muslims that are not militant, that are not extremists, who truly want to just live in peace like the rest of us, we can bring things to much better ends...
How is that going to occur, when we are constantly "Rightfully" engaging in lawful protest, at which we intentionally do things to upset them?
Why not hold up signs of the atrocities the extremists have committed? Why not hug the peaceful Muslim, and show the extremists a united endeavor to bring about peace?
How can things change when we keep doing the same shit? Regardless if we have the right
Personally, I'm still struggling with the concept of the Trinity that is the foundation of Christianity as a religion. However, I can find no fault with humanity of Jesus as a philosopher and his teachings about individual behavior. What I can find is a stark contrast with the rigid social construct that the Quran prescribes for its followers and non-believers.
While the trinity may be the foundation for many organized denominations of Christianity, it is not the foundation of Christianity and not all denominations teach it. In fact the New Catholic Encyclopedia even says the 'One God into three persons' concept did not come about until 4 centuries after Christ.
and that's every single person of the Islamic faith right? so with the logic presented here... I'm well within my rights to shoot any person I see wearing muslim garb because they are hell bent on killing us all.... so I can preemptively defend myself right?
No it's the radicals :) and some of those who think its OK but would not do it themselves
We are not fighting Islamist only radical Islamists
I am a Christian yet I despise the wetboro or whatever their names are they are not Christians in my eyes !
I know their are some Muslims who feel the same way about the radicals
Now if a Muslim burnt a bible ? Oh well it's a material book I would think idiot you won't get under my skin that way !
And I bet half of the US won't start rioting and killing people
But a desecrated Kuran gets burnt and pretty much the whole country goes ape$hit and starts chanting death to the USA and even kills people it shows just how many are radicals
They consider writing in the Kuran desecration et did they want the terrorists killed who wrote in it ? Nope
Again shows their are more radicals than non in those countries
Ok you need to read history more and not the lefts version !
They were doing crap and being the instigators since 500 AD
We will never get along with them as the bad ones will make sure of that !
Sadly their are more radical ones than good ones
The good ones I think we do live with just fine ?
Just like the japanese in WWII who brutalized our soldiers so we did it back yet somehow you would say we should not do that and make us the bad guys ! Yet they started it
Sometimes people like this can not be reasoned with
Out of the 50-90 million who died in WWII some 80% of those were Russian and Chinese and it was the Germans and the Japanese that did the killings and half of hose deaths were civilians
Insane when you think of it
So we drop two atomic weapons on Japan and kill about 250,000
And yet many call us the horrible brutal people in that war for doing that and of course hitler as being bad !
Yet we kill a drop in the bucket to stop the madness and it did work ! Why we met terror with terror
So history tends to say Hitler was a bad guy Japanese bad they attacked us so we attacked back and we were bad for dropping the bomb ?
Screw that they started it !
History is Muslims have a Agenda it's in their Kuran to wipe out or enslave all non believers its only recent that more mild ones want to get along so these nice mild ones are the minority
The fact we have the rights to do so is not in question. We have them, and we can use them as we see fit, without fear of retribution, as it should be.
My entire opinion on this matter, is focused entirely upon the why.
Forget the fact of exercising rights, and freedom to do so.
I am simply asking as one human being to another, why is it ok to engage in acts based solely on malice? Which we can be more than sure is her sole intent, to show her hatred for those of the Islamic faith, because she is racist, not in the sense of discrimination, but in the facet of lumping an entire race together based on the actions a minuscule minority.
In my opinion, this serves no purpose outside of upsetting the opposing viewers.
Things can be better achieved without the use of negative reinforcement.
I believe if we worked together with those Muslims that are not militant, that are not extremists, who truly want to just live in peace like the rest of us, we can bring things to much better ends...
How is that going to occur, when we are constantly "Rightfully" engaging in lawful protest, at which we intentionally do things to upset them?
Why not hold up signs of the atrocities the extremists have committed? Why not hug the peaceful Muslim, and show the extremists a united endeavor to bring about peace?
How can things change when we keep doing the same shit? Regardless if we have the right
Cagemonkey
03-10-12, 15:15
I know it may have come off that way but I wasn't trying to be a dick. I think what she did was stupid, a waste of time, money and bacon. I think she's a dumb broad looking for attention and she got it. There are much more constructive ways of bringing about change in people's opinion and intentionally trying to raise their hackles isn't the best way.
However, in America I will defend her freedom of speech and expression no matter how offensive it may be to some realigious zealot half a world away or in her own backyard.Agreed. Patrick Henry couldn't say it any better.
Reagans Rascals
03-10-12, 16:47
Ok you need to read history more and not the lefts version !
They were doing crap and being the instigators since 500 AD
We will never get along with them as the bad ones will make sure of that !
Sadly their are more radical ones than good ones
The good ones I think we do live with just fine ?
Just like the japanese in WWII who brutalized our soldiers so we did it back yet somehow you would say we should not do that and make us the bad guys ! Yet they started it
Sometimes people like this can not be reasoned with
Out of the 50-90 million who died in WWII some 80% of those were Russian and Chinese and it was the Germans and the Japanese that did the killings and half of hose deaths were civilians
Insane when you think of it
So we drop two atomic weapons on Japan and kill about 250,000
And yet many call us the horrible brutal people in that war for doing that and of course hitler as being bad !
Yet we kill a drop in the bucket to stop the madness and it did work ! Why we met terror with terror
So history tends to say Hitler was a bad guy Japanese bad they attacked us so we attacked back and we were bad for dropping the bomb ?
Screw that they started it !
History is Muslims have a Agenda it's in their Kuran to wipe out or enslave all non believers its only recent that more mild ones want to get along so these nice mild ones are the minority
So because someone else does it first... that makes it ok to do it in return?
there are no ethical or moral obligations.... they did it to me so they get it in return right?
They mutilate our troops and civilians... so that makes it ok for us to mutilate them and their civilians right?
How would you claim to fight a war on terror, if you are engaging in acts of terrorism yourself? Doesn't matter though cause they did it to you first right? Even though we are fighting to prevent the atrocities endured by civilians, we can do them in return because they did it to us first right?
sounds like just the ticket for peace
seems awful condescending to pontificate that the entirety of the Muslim race is extremist by nature with only a few "new muslims" who kinda slack off and feel like not participating in radicalism........
its complete bullshit and you know it, its racist bigotry to try and stereotype an entire race based on the actions of only those few you have seen on TV or read about in books and newspapers, you cannot speak for an entire race, throughout history none the less... you weren't there
I'm done trying to talk civility here
smoke is popped and extract is on the way.... my tour of duty is over
Well look at how most of the Muslim countries are acting ?
Not racist at all cause religion is not a race ? Hehehehehehe sorry man that's funny to say without knowing me !
BUT
the fact you called DocGKR a idiot who did not understand ballistics or calibers etc pretty much sums you up
Muslim history ? Nope was not there but I know and read history by people that were there
Our troops never mutilated civilians like they did to some 10 million civilians !
Have some respect for our country and troops and know your history !
Killing 250,000 to save millions is a good trade and one men have to make at times !
Remember the Japanes bombed us which put us in the war !
So yes sometimes you have to do things back !
And it was the ticket for peace !
Again know your history
If a us citizen wants to do stupid stuff like burn a Kuran that's freedom we have and people do stupid stuff !
fighting the war on terror
a civilian burning a book is not the same as killing people ! And she is not military !
So because someone else does it first... that makes it ok to do it in return?
They mutilate our troops and civilians... so that makes it ok for us to mutilate them and their civilians right?
Yup! Sure does!
montanadave
03-11-12, 07:51
Yup! Sure does!
Apparently someone agrees with you, as the BBC is reporting that a U.S. soldier walked off his base in Kandahar province, entered homes in a local village, and opened fire. Initial reports are 16 Afghanistan civilians dead, including women and children, with additional wounded.
I've no doubt the strategy you propose will yield overwhelmingly positive results for everyone involved. :rolleyes:
I understand that some of you want to take the moral tolerant high ground with islamists, and I include here the "moderates" that while not likely to blow themselves up would nevertheless want to supplant our legal system and civil rights with sharia law, but I remind you:
It is societal suicide to be tolerant with the intolerant. You will run the risk of becoming a useful idiot to them as they will use your fetish of tolerance that makes you feel so morally superior to undermine if not usurp your rights and traditional way of life. They will use our tolerance to implement an intolerant society.
But to look at this another way, i find it interestig that we are expected to be tolerant to an ideology that promotes poligamy, views women as property, is intolerant of gays, is, in it's more extreme forms, intolerant of even music and non religious art, and would treat unbelievers as second class citizens to live in dhimmitude, and would execute converts to another religion, etc., yet so intolerant of a ditzy broad expressing her ill-conceived protest of said ideology.
Again I think the salient story is not that some fool decides to burn a Koran, or throw it in the garbage, etc., but rather that so many of the Koran's followers would react with such unmitigated murderous outrage. I repeat, if a Muslim is one burned Koran away from hurting or murdering someone, or even just secretly supporting someone that does, that Muslim is not a moderate..but far from it.
Reagans Rascals
03-11-12, 09:18
the fact you called DocGKR a idiot who did not understand ballistics or calibers etc pretty much sums you up
what the hell are you talking about?
I never once called anyone on this forum an idiot.... I said I am not impressed by resumes or by other peoples opinions... its called trust but verify, Doc is an incredibly knowledgeable man, far from an indiot, and I strenuously object to your trying to slander me by bringing up posts completely out of context, simply in the name of character assassination so your point is somehow vicariously validated.
That's called ad hominem, and obviously you have no grasp on the proper structure of constructive debate.
That is childish, and its about the 4th time you have done it. Can you not debate positively, while at the same time, staying on topic? Or perhaps you are the child that flips the chessboard over when he begins to lose?
I was attempting to point out the fact that everyone here seems to be narrowed in on the Islamic faith and Muslims in general, when its the terrorists we are concerned with. Islam has nothing to do with it, its those who cannot vent their frustrations in a positive way... you do realize there are multiple terrorist organisations throughout the world that are not Muslim right? We have been victim of terrorism within our own borders and across the globe that had no basis whatsoever in Islam.... Oklahoma City for Instance... the bombing of abortion clinics... even the IRA in Belfast is a terroristic organization by nature that has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.
Islam is not the reason why these things occur, it is the excuse for why
I think we can constructively combat terrorism without stereotyping an entire race/country/creed of individuals.
Focus on the individuals committing the acts, not the entirety of those who look, sound, or pray like them.....
Publicly burning a Quran, Bible, Flag or anything else for that matter, simply because you are upset and want the world to know.... is childish... that is the act of a 4yr old throwing a temper tantrum... slamming doors, stomping their feet and holding their breath.... how does that get anything at all accomplished?
If you are that upset, sign the forms, suit up and ship out to the front lines and fight, if you can't join the military volunteer at organisations that help those who are in the service, or go on mission trips, anything that actually does something..... sitting here just bitching and burning shit while actually not doing a single thing to change it is asinine...... its just like ****in hippie music festivals.... lets all get together and bitch an moan about things but not do a damn thing to change any of it
Grow up
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-11-12, 09:44
Publicly burning a Quran, Bible, Flag or anything else for that matter, simply because you are upset and want the world to know.... is childish... that is the act of a 4yr old throwing a temper tantrum... slamming doors, stomping their feet and holding their breath.... how does that get anything at all accomplished?
If you are that upset, sign the forms, suit up and ship out to the front lines and fight, if you can't join the military volunteer at organisations that help those who are in the service, or go on mission trips, anything that actually does something..... sitting here just bitching and burning shit while actually not doing a single thing to change it is asinine...... its just like ****in hippie music festivals.... lets all get together and bitch an moan about things but not do a damn thing to change any of it
Grow up
So in other words, using the rights afforded to you by the US Constitution is useless unless Reagans Rascal's agrees with it. Instead of excercising your rights, one should instead simply join the military or become a civil servant. A mere citizen should have no voice.
Reagans Rascals
03-11-12, 10:10
So in other words, using the rights afforded to you by the US Constitution is useless unless Reagans Rascal's agrees with it. Instead of excercising your rights, one should instead simply join the military or become a civil servant. A mere citizen should have no voice.
jesus dude.... you keep harpin on and on about your rights and your rights and exercising your rights....
no one is saying not to exercise them, no one one is saying you cant exercise them when you see fit
how can you fail to see the overall message of constructive protest.... if you want to get things changed, formulate a well thought out plan to bring out a preferred outcome, and execute it
standing around bitch and moaning, burning a book, does absolutely nothing besides give you the false comfort of "exercising your god given rights".... I'll burn and bitch because I am protecting the Constitution..... yeah that's definitely going to make things better
well you know what... simply doing nothing at all, exercises your rights as well, because you have the freedom not too do anything if you so choose... every think of it that way?
but its all rights, rights, rights.... how is burning a book going to further secure your rights? Simply because you exercise your rights, doesn't do anything to keep them secure
It seems like all you are about is pushing boundaries in hopes to encounter a backlash so you can erupt into a "Constitutional Rights" battle... you are just doing things looking for a fight in hopes you can then turn it all into a Constitutional war on a national level...
its the same bullshit with people walking around open carrying and filming in hope to get stopped by cops so they can engage in a rights debate... its just stupid attention whore bullshit
What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want more rights? Or do you want them just the way they are?
Fine........Today I am going to downtown Richmond with my Select-fire Colt lower, MK18 Upper, LMT 9" 203, and KAC NT4 Suppressor... all just strapped up and ready to rock... and I am just going to walk around town with it slung at high ready.... just because its my right... and if anyone wants to bitch I'll school them on the Constitution and my Rights.... look for me if you are in town
Army Chief
03-11-12, 11:28
Enough is enough. This one is done.
Please don't bother with the PMs explaining why the insults, profanity and consistently antagonistic banter were somehow enhancing your membership experience and sense of self-expression. I loathe playing the heavy, but this thread was played out two pages ago. Time to let it go.
AC
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