View Full Version : How are troops slinging the M4?
JoeSixPack
03-10-12, 06:37
How exactly do most of the troops overseas sling the the M4? I see pics like the one below where the sling is somehow looped through the stock. I've got a vickers sling and I can't seem to find a clear pic of how they are looping the sling through the OEM M4 stock.
http://www.defensereview.com/stories/strac/STRAC_Technologies_FAST_System_in_Iraq_2.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Soldier_iraq.jpg
I also see pics of a stock that has a sling loop on the top. This stock looks OEM but the OEM stock on my LE6920 does not have the loop on the top. Anyone know what the stock eith the sling loop on the top is? Is it aftermarket or OEM Colt?
http://www.motionpicturearmourer.com/ColtM4-M203-NSN-B.jpg
justin_247
03-10-12, 06:40
Most of the M-4s that I've seen used the Colt OEM sling attached to the buttstock loop and the side-sling swivel at the front of the rifle.
Some have purchased their own slings and attach points, as well.
Funkenstein
03-10-12, 06:53
As you can see with the Marine on the left, he is using a single point sling that attaches to the shoulder of the flak.
You can also see how taped up it is...
I can't remember what actually attaches the weapon to the sling, I wasn't privileged enough to get the single point, was always a two point loop sling with a butt stock cradle and looping it through the bayonet lug sling point on an M16A4.
RogerinTPA
03-10-12, 07:11
I see mostly standard issue slings, but I do see a quite a few 3 points on just about every A2 I come across (mostly USAF), with the occasional Blue Force padded sling. Most of the people I come in contact with are Fobbits. On other equipment issues, most don't have an RDS, powered optic or rail covers, except for the Marines and Army combat arms types who go outside the wire.
Guns-up.50
03-10-12, 08:17
I see mostly standard issue slings, but I do see a quite a few 3 points on just about every A2 I come across (mostly USAF), with the occasional Blue Force padded sling. Most of the people I come in contact with are Fobbits. On other equipment issues, most don't have an RDS, powered optic or rail covers, except for the Marines and Army combat arms types who go outside the wire.
+1 That shit drove me mad;
When I was in the Marines few had 3pts some had two but the armory issued 1pts witht the M4s, but of course thoes were only issued to the staff ncos and officers who never used them. The gun fighter were issued a4s and most of us used no sling. IF I was not on patrol I carried my weapon by the slip ring..:)
When we got brand new m4s they came with a 2 point sling that loops through the stock and bayonet lug sling mount. Most of us ended up getting our own slings. I had a 1 point but it got on my nerves when it came to detainee searches and the like. A lot of cheapos would rig up the sling that came with the m4 with 100mph tape and make it a 1 point.
Submariner
03-10-12, 09:53
Blue Force Gear® Vickers Combat Applications Sling™ - Sling Attachment for AR15 and M16 Rifle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCmXrNXZpX8&feature=related)
With the TAPS load carrying system that is issued with the IOTV's, there is enough extra webbing and buckles that you can make a reliable one point sling to attach to your body armor.
For inside the wire a sling was mandated by our SGM I started off using the two point that came with but ended up jury-rigging some 550 cord into a nice wide cushy sling.
Whatever works is what gets used, if it's stupid but works, it's not stupid.
A lot of Infantry uses a one point rig with a loop through the butt-stock and a quick release buckle at their shoulder since they have to carry their M4 at the ready any way, they just un-clip it and carry it free. As an Infantry Officer I need to use the radios, map, etc. and I use the Blue Force Gear Vickers Combat Applications Sling. The Soldiers that are using slings use a simple two point or the Vickers.
The one sling I would stay away from is a 3 point that has material against the left side of the weapon.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e130/toddgriffin00/001-8.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e130/toddgriffin00/002-6.jpg
Failure2Stop
03-10-12, 10:32
Why are you asking?
Are you looking for a sling solution?
I spent a significant portion of my life carrying a gun for Uncle Sam, and in that time I have seen a lot more stupid sling solutions than good ones.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Most of the time its the issue 2-point with the front side sling mount and the rear looped through the but stock, with an additional loop of material at the toe of the stock to attach to the IOTV/plate carrier.
I used the emdom gunslinger sling and the URS with a MI RE sling attachment. That way I could remove the sling when going out and hook it to the URS on my body armor.
Without sounding offensive to our troops, I think repeating the jury rigging of a basic infantry man may not be the best course of action. Those guys have a reason for doing what they are. Be that the fact the the supply system sucks and they can't get their hand of a good piece of gear and are making due or they have a special need that needs addressing.
I think you'd be better off deciding whether you want a 1 point or 2 point and then buying a piece of kit specifically designed for the task.
Without sounding offensive to our troops, I think repeating the jury rigging of a basic infantry man may not be the best course of action. Those guys have a reason for doing what they are. Be that the fact the the supply system sucks and they can't get their hand of a good piece of gear and are making due or they have a special need that needs addressing.
I think you'd be better off deciding whether you want a 1 point or 2 point and then buying a piece of kit specifically designed for the task.
Its not offensive to remember that the average infantryman isn't a gun person. Half the time they are just repeating what they saw some e5 do, repeat ad nauseam.
Its not offensive to remember that the average infantryman isn't a gun person. Half the time they are just repeating what they saw some e5 do, repeat ad nauseam.
What does the way you carry your tool have to do with being a "gun person?" Bottom line Soldiers have a lot of experience carrying rifles and that is what the OP asked.
What does they way you carry your tool have to do with being a "gun person?" Bottom line Soldiers have a lot of experience carrying rifles and that is what the OP asked.
Simply that they don't know that there may be better/optimum ways of mounting a sling. The OP seems to be looking for ways to mount his Vickers sling. The right way and how an infantryman did it is not always the same thing.
If it works for the end user, isn't that the right way?
There may be better options for others, but if the end user is content with the setup isn't that the optimum setup for that end user?
I imagine that's why there's so many options out there, different needs for different folks. One user's optimum might be another's awful setup.
Without sounding offensive to our troops, I think repeating the jury rigging of a basic infantry man may not be the best course of action. Those guys have a reason for doing what they are. Be that the fact the the supply system sucks and they can't get their hand of a good piece of gear and are making due or they have a special need that needs addressing.
I think you'd be better off deciding whether you want a 1 point or 2 point and then buying a piece of kit specifically designed for the task.
Did you ever think that said infantrymen rigging up their own sling did so because he knows there are options designed for what he wants but doesn't want to hash out $30-60 on a good sling and even more for a nice mount? I had a troy fde professional grade buffer tube mount and a bds 1 point sling for my m4 and it wasn't cheap and I got them on sale. I tried to convince my fellow infantrymen who rigged theirs to buy a setup to better fit their needs and not one of them said anything other than they did not want to spend the money. It was not because they were not into weapons. They knew it was more comfortable and tailored to their needs. It was not ignorance.
Failure2Stop
03-10-12, 13:12
The average grunt doesn't know what he doesn't know, and the amount of training is paltry compared to what even the average member here knows about employment.
There are several contributers to this site and to modern firearms culture that are true experts on employment of the carbine, and I would take a look at how they choose to sling their weapons as opposed to what the average "troop" does.
Look at the VCAS and Vtac slings (and the other 5 or so similar modern 2-point slings) and how they are designed for use by true Subject Matter Experts.
Contrast that with the methods used by non-experts.
That is why I posed the question to the OP, "Why are you asking?", which would give an indication of what kind of information to pass to him. I don't think that it would be unreasonable to wait for an answer before getting all panty-wadded.
The average grunt doesn't know what he doesn't know, and the amount of training is paltry compared to what even the average member here knows about employment.
There are several contributers to this site and to modern firearms culture that are true experts on employment of the carbine, and I would take a look at how they choose to sling their weapons as opposed to what the average "troop" does.
Look at the VCAS and Vtac slings (and the other 5 or so similar modern 2-point slings) and how they are designed for use by true Subject Matter Experts.
Contrast that with the methods used by non-experts.
That is why I posed the question to the OP, "Why are you asking?", which would give an indication of what kind of information to pass to him. I don't think that it would be unreasonable to wait for an answer before getting all panty-wadded.
Look at you, clouding the issue with facts.
I quoted the wrong person. I meant to quote the person who said they just copy someone else and have no knowledge of what is good.
Yeah the average grunt might not have the knowledge to the extent a instructor who has been teaching it for years but that doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing. In the end the grunt who is carrying his rifle for hours on end through the mountains, valleys, room to room & building to building is going to buy or rig what works best for him. Just like the civilian, leo and whoever else who spends quite a bit of time in courses will do the same. There is always going to be more educated people than others no matter the profession. Bottom line if it works and doesn't hinder your ability and comfortability it works. In the end it is user preference and one can only give suggestion. As long as that rifle gets employed properly it doesn't matter whether the user is using a 1, 2 or 3 point sling. Same as a vertical, angled or handstop style forward grip or just the rail itself. User preference.
My suggestion and recommendation is get a sling that can easily be converted from a 1 point to a 2 point. 1 point being for mout operations as it is easy to manipulate the weapon around like say from right and left hand shooting. The 2 point option for easier carry in situations like searching a vehicle or detainee and sse or the situation arises you need to carry a casualty you can pull your rifle around to your back and not worry about it getting in the way, pick the casualty up and grab & use his weapon until you get him to the ccp, vehicle or bird. All for training purposes or real world leo and mil situations. You can even use it as dragster strap. Very versatile. Ohh and get some qd mount for the front and a stock with a qd cup.
How exactly do most of the troops overseas sling the the M4? I see pics like the one below where the sling is somehow looped through the stock. I've got a vickers sling and I can't seem to find a clear pic of how they are looping the sling through the OEM M4 stock.
http://www.defensereview.com/stories/strac/STRAC_Technologies_FAST_System_in_Iraq_2.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Soldier_iraq.jpg
I also see pics of a stock that has a sling loop on the top. This stock looks OEM but the OEM stock on my LE6920 does not have the loop on the top. Anyone know what the stock eith the sling loop on the top is? Is it aftermarket or OEM Colt?
http://www.motionpicturearmourer.com/ColtM4-M203-NSN-B.jpg
Here's a link to show how to attach a VCAS to the M4 buttstock. http://www.oneshottactical.com/documents/INSTRUCTIONS_VICKERS_SLING.pdf
JoeSixPack
03-11-12, 12:47
The average grunt doesn't know what he doesn't know, and the amount of training is paltry compared to what even the average member here knows about employment.
There are several contributers to this site and to modern firearms culture that are true experts on employment of the carbine, and I would take a look at how they choose to sling their weapons as opposed to what the average "troop" does.
Look at the VCAS and Vtac slings (and the other 5 or so similar modern 2-point slings) and how they are designed for use by true Subject Matter Experts.
Contrast that with the methods used by non-experts.
That is why I posed the question to the OP, "Why are you asking?", which would give an indication of what kind of information to pass to him. I don't think that it would be unreasonable to wait for an answer before getting all panty-wadded.
Well, I have just about tried every after market rail on my LE6920. Some with QD sockets and others where I had to add a QD socket on the rail. Everyone one of them has hex screws that can loosen up which paranoids me out for some reason. I finally ended up going back to the original Knight's RAS. Problem is, The Knight's RAS is heavy and it's not free float and it does not have a built in QD socket and adding a rail mount QD socket adds a failure point.
Since I wasn't planning to mount anything on a rail (just wanted it for increased FF accuracy). I'm thinking I may as well just go back with the factory plastic handguards and the factory side sling mount under the front sight post.
This is a SHTF rifle so I want to keep it as bullet proof as possible and as light weight as possible.
I'm guessing that the troops have figured out the best way to sling the M4
The average grunt doesn't know what he doesn't know, and the amount of training is paltry compared to what even the average member here knows about employment.
This - most common used sling in my Infantry company is the standard USGI web sling, and it is usually only used to carry the weapon around the FOB or whatnot. For the most part when we are in training or expecting contact when we were deployed everyone had their weapons unslung as they tended to get in the way of all the crap we have on our body.
A lot of people like others have said used single point slings, it was sort of a "cool guy" setup where they'd tie the end of a wolf hook sling down to the shoulder of their IBA and clip it in to the adapter they had at the bottom of the stock. Other guys make their own sling loops with 550 cords to make their issue sling a little more adaptable.
A lot of members here have a lot more freedom on how they run their slings because our unit does not let us switch out our stocks or rails or add on accessories like QD mounts or end plates with sling attachment points or whatnot, so we pretty much get stuck using crap.
kaltesherz
03-12-12, 02:01
This - most common used sling in my Infantry company is the standard USGI web sling, and it is usually only used to carry the weapon around the FOB or whatnot. For the most part when we are in training or expecting contact when we were deployed everyone had their weapons unslung as they tended to get in the way of all the crap we have on our body.
This.
Most of the guys used the issue black 2 point that's useless for anything other than slinging for FOB carry. A handful of guys in my Company had personal 2 and 3 point slings, and a few tried 1 points (that were issued, without any way of mounting to the buffer tube/ receiver extension). One of our guys used a Targus laptop bag strap. Seriously. One Platoon overseas decided to ditch them completely, but they ended up doing very little movement outside the wire (COP sitting per Battalion) and I'm pretty sure would've gone back to slings had they actually done a shitload of dismounted and Air Assault missions like everyone else.
I used a BFG VCAS with a DD rail mount to good effect on both my M14 and M4/203 and a BFG 240 sling on my M249
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/kaltesherz/003-7.jpg
The average grunt doesn't know what he doesn't know, and the amount of training is paltry compared to what even the average member here knows about employment.
There are several contributers to this site and to modern firearms culture that are true experts on employment of the carbine, and I would take a look at how they choose to sling their weapons as opposed to what the average "troop" does.
Look at the VCAS and Vtac slings (and the other 5 or so similar modern 2-point slings) and how they are designed for use by true Subject Matter Experts.
Contrast that with the methods used by non-experts.
That is why I posed the question to the OP, "Why are you asking?", which would give an indication of what kind of information to pass to him. I don't think that it would be unreasonable to wait for an answer before getting all panty-wadded.
Moved to PM.
issued slings are usually garbage.
The slings I had issued were Spec-ops brand crap and of course the standard mil-spec nylon strap that you tie into a two point.
I think most soldiers overseas are using two points because its easier to sling over all the random ass gear you end up wearing.
On my last military deployment I had two slings for two different body armor sets.
One was the vickers two point and the other was a tactical link bungee single point.
I used the single point for CQM type missions when i was running light kit in small vehicles. I used the two point when I was running a 14.5" m4 with a can in daylight missions in hi visibility vehicles.
I think if i could do it over I would have used the Magpul sling as you can extend it with in one second from a single point to a two point. Its really nice. I used that when I was doing PSD for a couple years after the military.
All in all though I think the vikers is probably the best sling for just around the woods/house... I love the slider on it as it works flawlessly and the fact that its metal is nice. Its a much better slider than the magpul one which is a bitch to adjust.
Those are the best two slings though in my opinion.
And if yur running a long gun like the mk12 or a bolt gun the vickers is by far the best option for a sling, unless doing aerial platform shooting... in which case I like the quick cuff.
Tactical link sling
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/564250_10150616679126723_514491722_9622237_825786938_n.jpg
Vickers
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/560252_10150616678466723_514491722_9622232_289439082_n.jpg
A lot of Infantry uses a one point rig with a loop through the butt-stock and a quick release buckle at their shoulder since they have to carry their M4 at the ready any way, they just un-clip it and carry it free. As an Infantry Officer I need to use the radios, map, etc. and I use the Blue Force Gear Vickers Combat Applications Sling. The Soldiers that are using slings use a simple two point or the Vickers.
The one sling I would stay away from is a 3 point that has material against the left side of the weapon.
^^This^^ is very sound advice. I knew a few guys with mamba slings that were like this... They were absolutely ridiculous slings. Basically made the m4 combat ineffective.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/kaltesherz/003-7.jpg
This is the exact setup I used over the last year while in Afghanistan. I tried single pts while in Iraq and found them to be more annoying than helpful. I've used the issue 2 pt and found it to be the least easily adaptable in regard to fitting around you and your gear. A lot of guys use the 'wolf hook' or some other variation of single pts. I've even seen a lot of guys rig up something on the cheap using the issue 2 pt, 550 cord and duct tape to varying degrees of success. I heartily recommend a Vickers sling and whatever flavor of rail mount sling adapter you want. I personally used the MI QD sling attachment/rail adapter with no problems. This includes many dismounted patrols in the mountains around our COP, several multi-day named operations in the mountains and just plain old riding in an MATV or MAXXPRO.
Edit: Also, I want to throw out there that in my opinion, that 3pt slings are a waste of time. Absolute junk as there's no reason for them. Their time came and passed long ago.
maddawg5777
04-12-12, 17:21
On my six year run on active duty our unit was outfitted with blackhawk 3 pt slings. they were okay I guess. They work fine for the at home mission with only a second chance vest. When we were deployed they issued us a thing called a wolf hook. It hooked to the drag handle on your IBA and looped through the hole in the buttstock on the M4. Once again... okay. Main point here is issued shit is always meh, unless you have a UDM who knows how to order some decent shit.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.