View Full Version : Public Ranges: Observations and Recommendations.
buckshot1220
03-11-12, 21:39
I am writing this thread to discuss some of what I've noticed at public ranges that do not employ a range officer. This thread is not to discount the value of public ranges, or to beat up on the people that use public ranges. Consider it a PSA to refer to before your next trip.
Since I moved far from home about a year ago, I've been making good use of a range located on state land. The range is open dawn to dusk everyday and has few restrictions other than to follow federal/state laws for possession of a firearm and to follow the basic rules of gun safety. In my previous residence I always belonged to a private range that even restricted guests, so the clientele was quite different. The majority of what I am about to say is hinged mainly on safety.
1.) You have no idea who is in the lane next to you- Just because they have cool gear doesn't mean they have the first clue about firearms safety. It is YOUR responsibility to make sure that YOU remain safe. This requires you be vigilant in making sure that there are no muzzles pointed in your direction. If you should find yourself in such a predicament, move out of the way (assuming it does not seem malicious) and make your way toward the person to reiterate that the muzzle always needs to be pointed in a safe direction. Additionally, not everyone at a public range is a firearms owner, and therefore many don't even know the most basic of safe handling practices. If the person that brought them to the range also has bad habits, well...its a multiplier effect.
2.) Every gun is loaded- On a public range you shouldn't trust anyone's "safe." This past weekend, I actually heard someone hand off a gun to another person commenting that the gun was "kinda loaded." Apparently this new condition I had never heard of meant that there was a loaded mag in the gun, but the chamber was empty. If there is a cease fire and you're downrange and some clown is playing with his gun, it could end bad. Try to stress to the people around you that when the range goes cold, there should be little to no handling of firearms.
3.) Women on the range- There is nothing I can respect more than a woman who wants to learn to shoot, sport or defense. Unfortunately, they often wind up at the range with their goober boyfriend/spouse who failed to pass on the rules of firearms safety. I'm not saying that you should profile for who is most likely to be a danger, but it should be noted. On a side note, why do their boyfriends always insist they shoot the 12 gauge when they know damn well it will ruin the experience for all parties involved?
4.) People shooting pistols from the rifle benches- Some outdoor ranges have bench lanes for rifles and pistol lanes that do not have benches. Often times people will setup shop at the rifle bench with both a rifle and pistol (I am guilty myself), but it is important to make sure that when you are firing a pistol from these benches that you are on the line and not behind it. Several times I have seen guys start shooting a pistol while standing BEHIND the bench (their muzzle is a good 5-6 feet back from where everyone else is). This can, and will, create a problem if you have someone with weak safety skills as a small degree of directional change could put their muzzle squarely inline with another person. If you see this, calmly move toward them and when they finish their magazine out tap 'em on the shoulder and explain why they need to move forward.
5.) Kids- Kids love to pick stuff up. Shotgun shells in particular, I assume because they are colored. Small children can easily wind up beneath a shooting bench or worse ahead of the bench looking for cool souvenirs. Their parents aren't always keeping a close eye on them so if you see one lurking around let the child's parents know ASAP.
6.) When to go to the range- If you wake up on a weekend morning and think it's a beautiful day for the range, don't go. Everyone mentioned above is already there or on they're way. Unless you want to deal with all of the above, and the increased safety hazards, it may be best to stay home. If you only have weekends off, go early and get out early. If you can handle it, go when its raining or cold. There will be far fewer people and you can get some quality time in, especially if you are bringing someone along who wants to learn. Since I work most weekends, I get a day off during the week and I usually make that my shooting day. I go early in the morning and I am usually there by myself and can run some good drills without being bothered by anyone.
7.) Be respectful of others- Not everyone is into AR-15s and semi-auto handguns. I, as well, do like some other non-tactical firearms. If you find yourself next to someone like that, do your best not to run mag-dumps while dumping your hot brass all over them. It makes us look bad and drives a wedge in the firearms community. The month leading up to big game season in your area will also be plenty busy with people sighting in and whatnot.
8.) Targets- People bring all sorts of crap for targets. One time I caught two teenagers skeet shooting beer bottles over the range that we all walk down to setup targets, very stupid. Do a quick scouting to make sure no one is shooting at anything that has a great chance of causing a ricochet.
9.) Take care of the range- This means picking up your trash and putting it in the appropriate cans/bins. If you see trash along the wood line or blowing toward the parking area, pick it up. Aside from accidents on the range, what will most likely shut these ranges down is if we don't do our part to maintain them. A lot of these ranges get periodic maintenance from state or federal parks authorities, but some may also have volunteer groups that do cleanups as well. If interested, read the signs, but at least clean up your mess.
I hope that maybe this will be helpful to some. I am very grateful to live less than 20 minutes from a free, 10-lane 100-yard range. However, it is important to understand it's limitations and how to make the best use of what has been given to you FREE. Please don't take any of the previous to be condescending, it is meant to keep us safe and our ranges open.
100% agree with this.
The situation at my local DNR range is almost the same.
About 1/2 of everyone I've seen there was unsafe and needed to be watched closely.
The other half are clued in, very safe, and tend to run ARs, SCARs and carry a pistol too.
Many people leave their targets and the place looks like a trash dump except for twice a year when the Boy Scouts clean it up.
Yesterday was the first time I went to a range without an RO closely monitoring it. Its on base, and generally was solid. Of course there was a range test and everything, but there was one point when I looked over at a few guys who had rented a Desert Eagle. One was posing for a picture with it, standing far enough behind the firing line that he was out of the little cubby area provided by the walls (idk what its called). He also had it pointed at the ground right in front of him. Not saying anything bad about the range, but definitely not the safest of practices by the guy. Between growing up around military, that, and going to infantry OSUT this summer, I'm very disappointed in our armed forces weapon's handling enforcement. I know very well that not everyone is combat arms, but still, I think that handling techniques are very poor from what I've seen.
Maybe it's me but I pretty much refuse to go shooting with or around strangers or people who make it complicated. I generally won't have a good time unless everyone else in the general area is around a 3 or a 4 in the "stages of competency." Having to think about other people's safety issues just leads to me getting pissed and is not worth it.
Also can't stand "that guy" who appoints himself safety Nazi, but handles guns like virgins ****. You know they're actually really uncomfortable around weapons and probably more dangerous than everyone else, but will try to call you out for safety violations that are anything but.
The Ft. Sill POW range is the most unsafe range I have ever been to. Last time I went there someone decided to start shooting while I was putting up my target. The RO sits on his ass in the shed playing on his smart phone. The one time I saw him come to the firing line he was finger ****ing with someone’s shotgun in the middle of a ceasefire as people where hanging targets. There is no muzzle discipline at all. People are handling their guns when others are down range or calling ceasefires and then start walking down before you have time to clear your weapon. Even though it’s free for me to use and they supply the targets I’m never gong back.
QuietShootr
03-12-12, 09:13
Maybe it's me but I pretty much refuse to go shooting with or around strangers or people who make it complicated. I generally won't have a good time unless everyone else in the general area is around a 3 or a 4 in the "stages of competency." Having to think about other people's safety issues just leads to me getting pissed and is not worth it.
Also can't stand "that guy" who appoints himself safety Nazi, but handles guns like virgins ****. You know they're actually really uncomfortable around weapons and probably more dangerous than everyone else, but will try to call you out for safety violations that are anything but.
100% agreed. I'm currently very blessed with a friend who has 600+ yards on his property less than 5 minutes from my house, but I get up every morning and thank God for the opportunity to have free access to that. What's left of my hair would fall right the **** out if I had to go to public ranges.
turdbocharged
03-12-12, 09:30
I've seen all of these unsafe practices at my Dad's membership only rifle range in Vermillion. Lot's of knuckle draggers who can't follow rules. I try to avoid that place too. It's mostly older guys who of course know everything and always point that out and only use rifles to hunt. They give me bad looks when I bring out my 6920. I make sure to obey their "no rapid fire" rule. Watch my muzzle, and other safety considerations. I always clean up brass and garbage before we leave and bring in the target stands. I learned a lot from Grants class and have tried to utilize those lessons on their range.
Then last year they appointed a new grounds keeper with a zero tolerance policy towards AR owners. Any issue found they immediately blame us. They love the guys who come and sit on the 300 yard range and spend 10 hours firing 5 shots through their bolt action precision rigs. I think they hate auto loaders in general.
Evidently some mouth breather shot up a target stand and they had the nerve to blame us for it. We didn't do it but offered to build them 5 new stands and it still wasn't enough. ****ing assholes, I'm glad I don't give them my money. I told my pops to find a better range or just buy a house in the country and make his own in the backyard. I wish I could afford to do that.
Funny thing is we never had an issue with the previous grounds keeper. Man was a cool dude we could just sit around talking about tractors all day. Some people are just too intolerant and overuse their powers.
The OP summed up all the reasons why I refuse to shoot at a public range. Unfortunately, guns seem to attract a large numbers of idiots, and it never fails that they're out in full force if I would go to the range.
Fortunately, I now am a member at an excellent club in the Pittsburgh area (Beaver Valley Rifle & Pistol Club). The facilities are more than adequate, there are not a bunch of moronic rules (like limits on how many rounds you can load in a magazine), and most of the members are decent folks (not idiots/fudds).
thopkins22
03-12-12, 09:47
One of the private ranges I shoot at has had an influx of members in the past four years, to the point that new members are no longer being accepted. The past four times we've either been harassed for completely safe practices or had things explained to us that we obviously already knew.
I was zeroing a new bolt gun at 100, walked down to 300 to ask for a cease fire and it goes like this.
Guy: I'm going to fire three more shots.
Me: That's fine, doesn't bother me in the least.
Guy: No! You can't go down range while I'm shooting!
Me: Wasn't planning on it.
Guy after firing three more shots: I'm going to leave my gun on the table and remove the bolt, that's a cold range.
Me: Whatever floats your boat.
Guy: That's a safe range.
Me: Wasn't questioning you.
The next time I need to go down range he's cleaning his rifle. I ask, and say that it's fine if he needs to finish before we go down range. He flips and tells me that it's not okay to go down range while someone is still touching their rifle. Whatever...didn't plan to.
RetreatHell and I were scolded that we MUST wear hearing protection while on the firing line, even when it's a cold range.
I'm not sure I'll let this membership expire, but I thank God that I have access to a big boy range too. Unsafe people are dangerous and to be avoided, self appointed safety nazis are f-ing annoying though.
montanadave
03-12-12, 10:09
For all of the reasons cited above, I CANNOT WAIT until later this summer when I can put up my own private range on my land and have one AND ONLY ONE person I have to keep a close eye on.
However, I anticipate my ammo costs to escalate dramatically. Then it will be time to seriously consider taking the plunge into reloading. :laugh:
turdbocharged
03-12-12, 10:13
@thopkins22
It seems like you had a firm grasp on safety and he just didn't want to listen even though you were agreeing with him. Such a weird situation but is far too common at my range as well. It's like they can't compute that you are agreeing with them they're so busy arguing with you.
Unsafe people are dangerous and to be avoided, self appointed safety nazis are f-ing annoying though.
Yeah definitely.
It's all well and good to refuse to do this or that (I also hear a lot of "I refuse to go to the public range because the SOs are 'range nazis'" so you have everyone wanting it both ways) but for many of us if we don't go to a range that's deemed undesirable by those that have better shooting areas available, it would mean no shooting.
Further, remember that all of those goobers at the public range got their in a car on the same roads you drive. You don't hear about "I'm not driving on any public road because everyone else is an idiot". If you think they don't have just as much, or more, ability to kill you on the highway with their stupidity you are fooling yourself.
I think the OP's post is good, but is likely largely preaching to the choir or falling on deaf ears.
My advice to new shooters who might read the OP and think "yeah, that's great advice" is to never go to an unsupervised range alone. I prefer to take three people, two to stay at the bench and watch the other morons while the third guy is downrange posting/pasting/scoring targets. Additionally, the two staying uprange, and really the guy going downrange too, should be armed. If the range says "no loaded guns on your person" carry concealed. I used to shoot at unsupervised ranges all the time and it's not too long until you read about someone either getting outright accosted and robbed or gets his shit took while he's downrange alone.
My advice to new shooters who might read the OP and think "yeah, that's great advice" is to never go to an unsupervised range alone. I prefer to take three people, two to stay at the bench and watch the other morons while the third guy is downrange posting/pasting/scoring targets. Additionally, the two staying uprange, and really the guy going downrange too, should be armed. If the range says "no loaded guns on your person" carry concealed. I used to shoot at unsupervised ranges all the time and it's not too long until you read about someone either getting outright accosted and robbed or gets his shit took while he's downrange alone.
Agreed.
I've made it a point to have a long gun on me when going down range (unsupervised) as well as NOT leaving shit out on the tail gate. Had some guy pull up one time and started setting up, then decided to finger **** the two rifles I had sitting on the tail gate, in soft cases. He was harmless, but had he not been, I'd have been up an excrement filled waterway with no means of propulsion.
The OP summed up all the reasons why I refuse to shoot at a public range. Unfortunately, guns seem to attract a large numbers of idiots, and it never fails that they're out in full force if I would go to the range.
Fortunately, I now am a member at an excellent club in the Pittsburgh area (Beaver Valley Rifle & Pistol Club). The facilities are more than adequate, there are not a bunch of moronic rules (like limits on how many rounds you can load in a magazine), and most of the members are decent folks (not idiots/fudds).
Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider! - George Carlin
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter. - Winston Churchill
It's not that guns attract idiots, it's that the general public as a whole is just that stupid. Hence, idiots have guns too.
I routinely shoot at a public range. The lead up to general firearms season is da debil. I only shoot there on weekdays and very early in the morning so I can shoot in peace and go home without any extra holes or stains in my undies.
montanadave
03-12-12, 14:19
Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider! - George Carlin
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter. - Winston Churchill
It's not that guns attract idiots, it's that the general public as a whole is just that stupid. Hence, idiots have guns too.
While we might disagree on a host of other subjects, I love those two quotes and agree with your assessment of the general public. :laugh:
Is it any wonder we have a plutocracy maintained by an idiocracy masquerading as a democracy?
One of the private ranges I shoot at has had an influx of members in the past four years, to the point that new members are no longer being accepted.
Are you talking about ARC in Manor, by chance?
Probably not as, except for the influx of new members, my experience is the opposite. Even though ARC has a strict membership entry process and range safety qualification for membership, I am seeing some really unsafe new members. I wish they would slow down the flow of new members as it is ruining the club, IMO.
QuickStrike
03-12-12, 16:22
I'd never go to one alone. Good to take turns and have someone trust-worthy watching while I shoot IMO.
Couldn't agree more.
I can remember going to the local public range right from the high school parking lot and it was always immaculate. Stayed that way for many, many years. Even the high school kids knew to leave it as you found it. I never had to pick up anyone's crap when I got there and nobody ever had to pick up after me.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/SteyrAUG/100-0297.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/SteyrAUG/100-0296.jpg
Sadly it only took a couple retards with SKSs who weren't the same kind of considerate and thoughtful shooter who had used the same range for generations to get it completely shut down.
This is one of the drawbacks of firearms and shooting becoming popular with the kinds of people who watch WWF.
Maybe it's me but I pretty much refuse to go shooting with or around strangers or people who make it complicated.
I'm that way now. I have seen too many retards do too much stupid crap at public ranges, even the ones with ROs.
I now belong to private gun clubs and even then prefer to shoot only with the guys I know, or I go to local ranges with a large enough group that we are the only ones on the range.
It's a shame it has come to that, I have many positive experiences that involved public ranges when I was growing up. I learned some very useful things from many knowledgeable people.
SeriousStudent
03-12-12, 20:01
.......
My advice to new shooters who might read the OP and think "yeah, that's great advice" is to never go to an unsupervised range alone. I prefer to take three people, two to stay at the bench and watch the other morons while the third guy is downrange posting/pasting/scoring targets. Additionally, the two staying uprange, and really the guy going downrange too, should be armed. If the range says "no loaded guns on your person" carry concealed. I used to shoot at unsupervised ranges all the time and it's not too long until you read about someone either getting outright accosted and robbed or gets his shit took while he's downrange alone.
Indeed. I never go to the range alone either.
And I have been asked "Why do you have those Colt 20-round GI magazines?"
Because they are so easy to slip in the back pocket of your jeans, while you have an AR slung across your back. I feel a wee bit better with 18 rounds of 75-grain TAP in my back pocket.
I have a public range nearby, but as mentioned, it's best to go there during the week early in the day and in inclement weather to avoid Bubba. The club has the distinction of being one of the few ranges in the country to have had a fatal shooting on site. Apparently about 20 years ago a shotgunner was taking the "unloaded" gun out of the case when it "accidentally went off", killing his wife. From what I have been able to find out the matter got swept under the rug, and nothing much was learned from it.
I hate to generalize, but unless I know another shooter I go into orange and usually clear out when one arrives. If I do manage to get the range to myself I do my drills and evacuate the premises.
My preference, when the weather and roads allow, is to remove myself out onto a favorite spot on BLM land where I'm very hard to find and spend half the day shooting and communing with the snakes and the horny toads. I'm not entirely antisocial but I am particular about the company I keep.
NavyDavy55
03-13-12, 15:45
This past Sunday it was 64 degrees and I went to the private range where I'm a member. Can't shoot before noon on Sundays or the nuns next door get upset. So I get there around 11:30 to set up targets and whatnot. Another guy is already there setting up. 1200 comes and we shoot for about 20 minutes when a truck full of guys show up.
Bubba's got his hands full of guns but not a case for any of the guns. This makes my spidey sense go on alert. Sure enough we call an all clear to set up/move targets and one of these bozos is handling a AK47 while people are down range. I talked to this gentleman and corrected his error. Safety radar still active.
A little later a guy and girl show up. I over hear she's excited to shoot. But the guy goes right into shooting, gives her a loaded gun which she immediatly puts her finger on the trigger. Oh man am I not having a good time now. She somehow hurts her finger after only six rounds but no blood. The boyfriend then insists she shoot his rifle. She says she doesn't want to. He insists only one shot. So she shoots one and says it hurt. He keeps pushing to shoot more but the girl finally leaves.
Now some other guy joins the guy who's girl just left and it sounds like a family member when he askes if mom and dad are coming to shoot. Mom is probably a good cook but her lack of safety awareness was repulsive. She had no problem handling a firearm behind her son shooting on the line. Didn't even consider the risk when she had it pointed at her sons back.
The next all clear and I was out of thier.
My advice to new shooters who might read the OP and think "yeah, that's great advice" is to never go to an unsupervised range alone. I prefer to take three people, two to stay at the bench and watch the other morons while the third guy is downrange posting/pasting/scoring targets. Additionally, the two staying uprange, and really the guy going downrange too, should be armed. If the range says "no loaded guns on your person" carry concealed. I used to shoot at unsupervised ranges all the time and it's not too long until you read about someone either getting outright accosted and robbed or gets his shit took while he's downrange alone.
Good advice. I grew up in a rural area where I could just go shooting literally out in the forest behind our back pasture. When I moved to more populated areas and started going to ranges, at first I didn't really consider the need for a CCW, but now I always carry at the range. At times, too, when I see the carelessness that often occurs at my pistol range (even in the members area), makes me wonder if an armored vest would be a good idea. :-)
Still need to consider the idea of bringing a buddy more often. I've thought about the issue of being robbed while downrange. A while back a good friend had an expensive suppressor stolen in exactly this situation.
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