flying with my pistol

[matt_scofield]

I am getting ready to take a trip and i will be flying with my 1911 and I am trying to figure out if my factory springfield armory hard case is TSA approved, also does anyone know if united specially mark bags with fire arms in them? I believe that is illegal. any information i can get would be great.

thank you all for your time

[F-Trooper05]

You need to have a lockable hard case (get a Pelican if you can afford it). They shouldn't put any stickers or tags on it.

[NWPilgrim]

Yes it is. You can either put a small lock through the designated hole in the lid lip, or what I do is put a heavy duty padlock around the handle (has to be small opening to keep the lid closed).

You can search other threads for lots of details. Here are a few tips.
- Pack the pistol in the hard case and lock it with a lock only you can open. If TSA needs to inspect it they will have you open it for them. You don't have to, but I field strip my pistol so the x-ray TSA agent can easily see it is not loaded and not operable, therefore no reason to open the case and check if it is indeed unloaded.

- You can keep ammo in mags, factory boxes, or handloading plastic boxes. I have a couple of mags loaded and a full 50 rd plastic reloading box of extra ammo. Airlines limit you to 8-11 lbs of ammo.

- Put the locked case into your luggage and lock the luggage with a TSA lock (optional but a TSA agent told me it would reduce the chance of bag handlers rifling through it.

- Notify the ticket agent you have "an unloaded handgun in a locked case" in your luggage when you check-in. Agent will give you a card to fill out. Put the card in the case unless instructed otherwise. The agent may want to see the locked case and even see the pistol but they should absolutely NOT handle your pistol at all. They should not tag the luggage item any differently.

- Different airports handle firearms bags and cases differently. Basically the bag goes to a TSA station and you are asked to wait in case they need you to open it. Once it clears they notify you and you can continue to the gate.

- Don't dilly dally getting to the baggage claim area when you land. Retrieve your bag promptly to reduce chance of someone walking off with it. I don't use fancy luggage to attract attention; it is well worn, nondescript but sturdy.

My experience is the ticketing agents are all over the map in terms of familiarity with how to check in bags with firearms. Best to know the rules well yourself and initiate the process, answer politely, and if any issues arise do not get confrontational just ask to speak with a supervisor. TSA agents I've encountered at the x-ray and firearms checking stations have universally been professional, friendly and often appreciate a good firearm, nothing like some of the security gate TSA folks.

[MRevolutionIX]

^ what he said.

I have traveled using my factory S&W Pistol case with a standard key pad lock. I have had no issues traveling this way. I have heard that if your case has multiple lock holes, every hole needs a lock. I dont know if this a blanket policy or if it varies from airline to airline. Like advised before, if you can afford a pelican case that would be the best to protect your firearm. But if not a quality hard case will do.

[Sam]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=86345

[1oldgrunt]

NWPilgrim gave good info..... BUT print out TSA regs regarding this as most TSA agebts are clueless also print out the specific airlines you are flyings own regs too, and take with you. You will at least be given a small form to put in case with gun, you "MAY" also be given a tag stating firearm inside, here's the trick, the ailines will allow you to put it on outside of lockable case, you then put lockable case inside big suitcase so no one actually sees it.

NW was corect but to add make sure you are available for screening of your bag. If you are NOT TSA has the right to cut locks to inspect, once locks are cut it will NOT be allowed on the plane since it can no longer be locked. ( I carry extra locks). TSA regs say you need be present so try to walk your bag thru screening explaining why. Once you state you have firearms you should be allowed special screening but this DOES NOT always happen. Always listen for your name because they MUST call it prior to inspecting / cutting locks. AS NW said have it in pieces and they won't have reason to open.

I used to be a serious pistol competitior and have flown extensively up until recently. As I said airlines differ as do airports, flying thru Dallas is a breeze, Los Angeles and non gun friendly states not so much.

Honest to gosh true story I was on a flight with returning AMU team. They had secured their weapons with TSA, and were told they would be held at arrival for them as they had some 'specialized" firearms. We parted as they went to find that special holding area. Well I got to the baggage carrousel and guess what started coming off, pelican cases en mass. I was pulling them for them and stacking and heard the hugest commotion you should have seen these guys in panic mode running to my area!!!!

Have the regs with you, try to walk your bags thru screening and hope for the best.

PS smaller airports are usually easier, in going to Los Angeles I go to Burbank before LAX, etc.

[Sensei]

Do not attempt to fly into NYC with a handgun and ammunition unless you have a city permit. All ticket counters at Laguardia are participating with the PD and telling passengers that the police must check the weapon. Passengers are then arrested for carrying a loaded weapon (even if the ammo is in a box) when the officers asks to see your permit. You will be taken to the airport holding cell and eventually be allowed plea to a lesser charge after spending a few hours in jail.

[chewie]

I couldn't agree more...take the TSA Regs with you to the airport. Know them. Even though you have the Regs and know the Regs, they may not operate exactly as the Regs state. Be prepared to provide your printed regulations and restate your intentions after they review them with you. They may state an oddball rule that you are unable to find anywhere, in which case, you will have to do what they tell you or be unable to check your weapon. (personal experience taught me these lessons)

[NWPilgrim]

Do not attempt to fly into NYC with a handgun and ammunition unless you have a city permit. All ticket counters at Laguardia are participating with the PD and telling passengers that the police must check the weapon. Passengers are then arrested for carrying a loaded weapon (even if the ammo is in a box) when the officers asks to see your permit. You will be taken to the airport holding cell and eventually be allowed plea to a lesser charge after spending a few hours in jail.

Thanks for the warning. I try to avoid the major airports even for stopovers, such as NYC, Chicago, DC, LA, but this will definitely put NYC on my "Do Not Fly Through There For Any Reason Whatsoever",

What is terrible is that if you fly anywhere around the East Coast you could end up going through NYC unexpectedly as a diverted flight due to weather or other situations. That would really suck. I have in-laws in PA so when we fly there I will try for non-stops or stops in Atlanta, Denver or something other than anywhere near NYC.

[Bulldog7972]

People fly in and out of Chicago everyday with firearms. It's not a big deal. As long as you comply with all the regulations you will be fine. The CPD does not support Daley or Emanuel in their disregard of the Constitution.

[Cobra66]

People fly in and out of Chicago everyday with firearms. It's not a big deal. As long as you comply with all the regulations you will be fine. The CPD does not support Daley or Emanuel in their disregard of the Constitution.

That may be the case, but I would still recommend people not connect through Chicago, New York, or Newark. No other major hub airport (including LAX or SFO) has a city government that has such a hardon for busting travelers with properly checked weapons, but the above three have done so in the past.

[Sensei]

People fly in and out of Chicago everyday with firearms. It's not a big deal. As long as you comply with all the regulations you will be fine. The CPD does not support Daley or Emanuel in their disregard of the Constitution.

I was not talking about Chicago. Here is the story about what happened to Mark Meckler (the leader of the Tea Party Patriots) at Laguardia:

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2012/01/12/tea-party-leader-pleads-guilty-in-gun-case/

Notice that he forfeited his weapon. Travelers going thru NYC have been warned - do with it what you will.

[Sensei]

Also, it appears that the problem with NYC rests with checking the weapon. There does not appear to be a problem with connections thru NYC as long as the airlines are in possession of your luggage.

Where you are likely to get screwed is when you get diverted to NYC and are required to disembark. You are probably better off NOT taking possession of you luggage (claim it lost) and hope that it gets sent to your address. True, you may loose your weapon and the rest of you luggage, but the weapon will be forfeited should you get caught.

[NWPilgrim]

People fly in and out of Chicago everyday with firearms. It's not a big deal. As long as you comply with all the regulations you will be fine. The CPD does not support Daley or Emanuel in their disregard of the Constitution.

I avoid Chicago because I have read accounts of baggage handlers there being notorious for stealing from bags. One time it was a police association alerting its members that after their annual convention in Las Vegas, several members who flew through Chicago had their service pistols stolen. I figure large airports in general have more anonymity amongst the workers and more likely will have baggage theft problems. To each his own.

[CPtheWightKnight]

I've heard of multiple cases like this in NY and personally i find it absolutely sickening that this continues to occur. One account was published in the NRA's monthly magazine a few months back. The NRA provided the defendant with a lawyer. The defendants weapon was forfeited and he escaped severe prosecution.

[pilotguyo540]

LAX and SFO are okay to check into with any firearm.

I have connected through ORD many times with out any problems.

The only problem have ever had was in Vegas. My rifle case was destroyed, but they didn't get my rifle.

I did have a woman (I think it was a woman) gate agent request to see my handgun to make sure it wasn't loaded, on the 3rd this month. That was highly unusual, not to mention completely useless without a chamber check.

Airline employees are fallible creatures, so know the laws, know their rules, and be sure you answer their questions properly. I have been asked very inappropriate questions, and received very inappropriate comments from the people on the other side of the counter.

As a general rule, (Sacramento being the only exception that I know), your firearm should always be locked, secured when not in your immediate control. Sacramento requires that you send the keys with the lackey who takes your gun back to TSA with out you. I talked to the TSA supervisor about this, and (again, I think it was a) she said that there are cameras everywhere. I am still not happy with that, but many, many trips through that airport, and no problems so far.

[1oldgrunt]

This is why you carry the TSA regs they are only allowed to inspect with you present UNLESS you are unavailable. Here this is from TSA's website:

Travelers must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from being accessed. Locked cases that can be pulled open with little effort cannot be brought aboard the aircraft.
If firearms are not properly declared or packaged, TSA will provide the bag to law enforcement for resolution with the airline. If the issue is resolved, law enforcement will release the bag to TSA so screening may be completed.
TSA must resolve all alarms of checked luggage. If a locked container containing a firearm alarms, TSA will contact the airline, who will make a reasonable attempt to contact the owner and advise the passenger to go to the screening location. If contact is not made, the container will not be placed on the aircraft.
If a locked container alarms during screening and is not marked as containing a declared firearm, TSA will cut the lock in order to resolve the alarm.
Travelers should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation.
Travelers must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
Firearm magazines and ammunition clips must be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm.
Small arms ammunition, including ammunition not exceeding .75 caliber for a rifle or pistol and shotgun shells of any gauge, may be carried in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it follows the packing guidelines described above.
TSA prohibits black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder.

These regulations are strictly enforced. Violations can result in state and local criminal prosecution, as well as civil penalties of up to $2,000 per violation.

[matt_scofield]

thank you all. As for the TSA regs i have printed off two copies one will go into the case and one will be on my person. the only concern is i have a change of planes in SFO.

[pilotguyo540]

thank you all. As for the TSA regs i have printed off two copies one will go into the case and one will be on my person. the only concern is i have a change of planes in SFO.
Handguns are not illegal in California, the cops don't monitor it there like they do in ny, nor could they do anything anyways, and you are only transferring in SFO. No matter what happens, you are fine.

Have a good trip.

[1oldgrunt]

If he has hi cap mags they can!!!! they might not but they sure as hell can. it is a felony to bring in hicaps w/o DOJ approval. Going into cali to shoot the steel challenge I had to get a letter from CA DOJ for hicap mags for use in the match!

Some folks do it w/o clearance but they run the risk if they get a LEO doing his job.

[pilotguyo540]

While it is true, high capacity magazines are a felony, there are so many loopholes that the laws are unenforceable. If you are really that concerned, pop off your base plates and they are now rebuild kits. Plus, they don't know if they are pre ban magazines or not. I have checked into the airport in SFO with a black rifle and 30 round (pre an) magazines. It wasn't a problem. They didn't interrogate me, I didn't have to play 20 questions and they didn't drag over local LEO's to verify the legality of anything. I was legal btw, but you cant tell from the outside.

Also remember that TSA isn't law enforcement.

California isn't nearly the police state that New York is. San Fransisco is a bastion of liberal stupidity, it's just a different culture all together.