View Full Version : What kind of pistol sights do you use for a combat/defensive application? And why?
Hey guys,
Wanted to throw this question out for a discussion on pistol sights in a combat/defensive application. What I am asking here is not what BRAND of sights, but rather what TYPE of sights do you prefer for a carry type of gun? And Why?
Basically, I want to know if you prefer all black vs tritium vs fiber optic sights (or a mix of each), serrated vs plain black sights, U-notch vs square rear sights, ect....and of course why. I think you get the point.
If you want to say what brand you have, then that's fine, but please don't throw a brand out with no explaination of the sights and why you prefer them.
This also doesn't have to be about any particular model of handgun. This is just a general discussion on the characteristics of pistol sights that you prefer for a defensive type of weapon system.
All of my hard use SD/HD guns wear plain black rears with a front post that has a high vis ring surrounding a trit insert. The orange circle really helps my first shots out of the holster 1.09- 1.2 at 3-7 yds and for me that is critical. I have found I am .50+ slower with a plain black front.
I prefer my rears to be serrated and to sit flush with the rear of the slide. They must also have enough of a ledge for one handed manipulations and charging the weapon.
I will leave the brand out but here are a couple pics of my preferred sights on my Glocks.
You guys are also getting a sneak preview of the new Vickers Tactical Glock baseplates. ;) Larry and Tango Down will be making an announcement in the next week or two.
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/06817284.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/eb339557.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/5365440b.jpg
I'll start by saying that all I have ever used are the Trijicon Night Sights, which has the "three dot system" with tritium, square notch on the rear sight, and a squared off rear/front sight for one-handed weapon manipulation.
I like them for up close work and no-light environments since you can align the sight picture without having to illuminate your sights.
However, at a recent Kyle Defoor class, I learned a couple of things about them:
First, the three dot system will lead to a little bit of "oversighting", meaning you try to perfect the sight picture even though the one you have is perfectly acceptable to make the hit. This happens at both close and long ranges.
Second, the sight picture with the three tritium dots may not be the best for 20-25yd+ shooting. I don't want to blame everything on the gun, but I couldn't consistently hit at 25yds with my FS M&P. This may be part of the issues that many see with the M&P accuracy wise, but sight picture may have had something to do with it too. I actually got a chance to shoot one of the guys' G19s at the class (that had all black sights) and was able to ring steel much more consistently and at a more rapid pace. This is a mid sized gun out-shooting a full sized gun! Hmmm....the guy who let me fire a few rounds out of it did make the point that your eyes will be drawn to the closest, brightest light...which would be the rear tritium, thus throwing your focus on your sight picture out of whack.
SO after doing a little research, I saw a bunch of different answers as to what people use/prefer...which led me to my question above.
I did find Jason Falla's explaination about his sight system and really do like his methodology behind it...if only he made them for the M&P :cool: :
Here is the background and concept for these sights.
I have been looking to develop a set of Combat Sights for pistols for a couple of years now. I conducted a ton of research and tests of other brands, heights, widths, tritium, no tritium, serrated, non serrated etc to find the best combination that fits our shooting program methodology and TTP's.
The result was that I needed a reputable sight manufacturer that produced high quality handgun sights that had the desire to work with us in the development of this project.
Enter Hilton Yam of 10-8 Performance. I met Hilton at the 2010 Shot Show in Las Vegas and discussed the project with him. He was excited to help out and the project up and running.
We went back and forward to establish the parameters of the sights, height, width, etc. I finally decided upon the following specs;
REAR SIGHT FEATURES
1. Rear sight had be serrated IOT reduce glare.
2. Rear had to be .156 wide IOT provide a good combat sight picture.
3. Rear had to have the ability to provide positive grip on equipment during injury drills and one handed manipulations.
4. Rear had to have set screw to increase stability under combat conditions.
5. Rear had to accept co-branding logos.
6. Rear had to have square notch which supports our methodology of rapid sight alignment.
FRONT SIGHT FEATURES
1. Front had to be serrated IOT reduce glare.
2. Front had to be .125 for fast combat sight picture and long range work.
3. Front had to be .215 high for POA/POI at all ranges from 25-100yrds.
4. Front had to contain a .60 vial of tritium for low-light application. (We work to a 90% sight picture solution during presentation so that you will always have the front inside the rear notch every time!)
5. Front had to have positive grip capability during injury drills or one handed application, particularly for weapons with heavy recoil springs).
The 10-8 platform was the perfect fit! We made slight changes to the existing platform to massage our specs.
The result was the RB1 Combat Pistol Sight.
Haha beat me to my first post D90King. But thanks for the response...that is pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Also, you can name the brand if you like. I just didn't want people to leave a two word response with just "x-brand", ya know.
ETA: I think GearScout made the announcement about the baseplates a couple days ago :cool:
Haha beat me to my first post D90King. But thanks for the response...that is pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Also, you can name the brand if you like. I just didn't want people to leave a two word response with just "x-brand", ya know.
ETA: I think GearScout made the announcement about the baseplates a couple days ago :cool:
They did, they contacted me for my pics etc... That said the "formal" announcement from LAV and TD will be coming very shortly. It was a very rewarding project to be involved with and the product exceeded even my wildest expectations thanks to LAV's magic.
I definitely get what you were trying to avoid with the brand fanboys and I think it was a good call.
They did, they contacted me for my pics etc... That said the "formal" announcement from LAV and TD will be coming very shortly. It was a very rewarding project to be involved with and the product exceeded even my wildest expectations thanks to LAV's magic.
I definitely get what you were trying to avoid with the brand fanboys and I think it was a good call.
Sweet man, didn't realize those were your pics. Good job with whatever level of involvement you had in that project. Just looking at the design, you can see how well thought out they are.
Sweet man, didn't realize those were your pics. Good job with whatever level of involvement you had in that project. Just looking at the design, you can see how well thought out they are.
Thank you for the kind words. I will simply say I was VERY involved. ;) Larry will be making an announcement shortly and he can share whatever he thinks is appropriate.
I will simply add that the changes he made to the initial design is what has made them a homerun. His execution exceeded my highest expectations and he deserves all the credit. Without him these would not be what they are. He knocked it out of the park. :dirol: Thats why he is The LAV!
On a side note, I think you were at the class at Blackwater with me that got the ball rolling on these.
Thank you for the kind words. I will simply say I was VERY involved. ;) Larry will be making an announcement shortly and he can share whatever he thinks is appropriate.
I will simply add that the changes he made to the initial design is what has made them a homerun. His execution exceeded my highest expectations and he deserves all the credit. Without him these would not be what they are. He knocked it out of the park. :dirol: Thats why he is The LAV!
On a side note, I think you were at the class at Blackwater with me that got the ball rolling on these.
Yep I was there...I had a feeling that was about the time period that this project was born ;)
NCPatrolAR
03-15-12, 11:04
I prefer to use a narrow, serrated front sight with a green tritium insert without a white outline. The rear sight can be smooth or serrated (slight preference to smooth) with a wide, square notch and single tritium vial (prefer amber).
The Sevigny Carry sights from Warren Tactical are my favorite though I use Heinie Straight 8s when the Sevigny's arent available.
All of my hard use SD/HD guns wear plain black rears with a front post that has a high vis ring surrounding a trit insert. The orange circle really helps my first shots out of the holster 1.09- 1.2 at 3-7 yds and for me that is critical. I have found I am .50+ slower with a plain black front.
I prefer my rears to be serrated and to sit flush with the rear of the slide. They must also have enough of a ledge for one handed manipulations and charging the weapon.
I will leave the brand out but here are a couple pics of my preferred sights on my Glocks.
This is pretty much my setup also - extended, black rear, orange (or green) front, serrated. I don't use tritium, I've got a plain black front with bright orange nail polish on it.
I'll add that I like a narrow front sight and wide rear. That way if I bring my sights up and the front is hidden behind the rear, it's easier to find. Not target accurate, but plenty combat accurate, and fast.
This is my old setup. .115 front and I think .180 rear. I replace the factory painted front with something a little wider because this one didn't set right and would turn slightly. Extended rear is actually on it's way right now.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5014/5477419869_efe8c1ea4c_z.jpg
Nephrology
03-15-12, 11:30
All of my hard use SD/HD guns wear plain black rears with a front post that has a high vis ring surrounding a trit insert. The orange circle really helps my first shots out of the holster 1.09- 1.2 at 3-7 yds and for me that is critical. I have found I am .50+ slower with a plain black front.
I prefer my rears to be serrated and to sit flush with the rear of the slide. They must also have enough of a ledge for one handed manipulations and charging the weapon.
I will leave the brand out but here are a couple pics of my preferred sights on my Glocks.
You guys are also getting a sneak preview of the new Vickers Tactical Glock baseplates. ;) Larry and Tango Down will be making an announcement in the next week or two.
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/06817284.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/eb339557.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/d90king/5365440b.jpg
Same sights for the same reasons. Fast acquisition.
dawson precision narrow fiber optic fronts with the stock factory rears on my M&P9's. After about 6000 rounds I had the fiber fly out of my comp gun and you pretty much end up with a black front sight at that point which is still very viable... I'm used to that sight picture and it seems to be the fastest to pick up for me. Fortunately the stock rears on the M&Ps have enough of a ledge on the front that I can still do one-handed manipulations with them.
I like green tritium dot in the front and two yellow or orange tritium dots in the rear. This seems to work for me. I don't have problems with them at longer distances and they don't have any effect on me at all during the day as I don't look at the dots when I shoot. In low light or night, it gives me a good general picture of what's going on. I have tried green trit front and plain black rear, and again, during the day it didn't matter, but at night I didn't like not having a general idea of how my rear sight was aligned. I don't need to stare at it, but I do like to have a general idea.
I went the red fiber optic front, plain black route. I tried a tritium front, but when I fired the gun the flash (even a small flash) made the tritium useless for me, I just couldn't see the glow at all. Now in low light or the dark I go for my flashlight. I like the fiber because with my eyes and not wearing glasses all the time, even if the front sight is slightly blurry I can pick up the fiber pretty easily.
I just installed Trijicon HD night's a few months back and I am very happy. Easy to pick up in the daylight, the orange front sight stands out well, and works well with U-notch rears (orange circle fits well in the U-shape), and 3-dot night sights at night. I also like the ledge on the rear sight for one handed operations if needed, the back side of the rear sight is also serated.
I am much quicker from draw to hits on target with the new sights, no question about that. Will get a set for my 1911 soon to.
For what it is worth, I have standard trijicon three dot sights on my Glock 17 and Springfield TRP. Its what they came with. I shoot the Glock fine though do wish it would hit better at extended distances, though the other week when I shot a IDPA match with it over in alabama with a friend of mine it didn't have much issue hitting any target though the groups weren't get, but on par with what everyone else was shooting with polymer guns, Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, ect. That said, I wouldn't mind a set of night sites with a slimmer front site on the glock.
My TRP though I have never had much of an issue hitting with at all at whatever range I shot with it within reason. That said, its front sight post is slimmer then what is on my glock a long with a longer sight radius.
I do have an older Beretta 92SB with just the standard U notch rear with a little white on it and a front post with a white dot that I have absolutely no issue hitting a target with, even pie plates at the 100 meter berm with pretty regular consistency when I last had it out there.
For what it is worth, I personally don't like fiber optic sights for combat or defensive use. I have had them on other pistols and shotguns for competition and had the fiber optic part fall out on several occasions under less then hard use. Don't know if anyone has come up with a way to really hold them in tight. I've seen tritium inserts fall out too, but much less often with less effect to being able to effectively engage with the gun.
F-Trooper05
03-15-12, 20:47
My sights must have the following...
*Tritium front.
*Serrated front.
*Painted front sight (or hi-viz dots like Ameriglo Hakcathorns/Trijicon HD's)
*Minimum of .156 wide rear.
*Either one dot tritium rear, or plain black rear (I absolutely hate three dot sights).
*Rear sight can be serrated or plain, it doesn't make a difference to me.
*Ideally I'd like ledge sights so I can manipulate the slide with one hand.
For what it's worth, I'm currently using Redback One's and am very pleased.
My preference is a narrow front sight with tritium vial and no white outline. Rear sight with no markings or tritium. My favorite rear sights currently are the Warren Tactical/Sevigney Carry and the 10-8.
I have had Hienie two dot night sights, I have had PT three dot's with contrasting colors, and trijicon three dot greens. I just use Trijicon three dot gree now cause they are affordable, they give me some light to align my sights which can never hurt but most importantly they are metal rather than factory polymer and I have never liked the white dot white U set up from Glock. I'm no longer picky about it anymore. Just give me good visibility and steel for one handed drills I am ok with it.
I've been using the Trijicon HDs and settled on them until something better comes along. I've tried a LOT of pistol sights trying to overcome my seeming inability to focus on the front sight and so far the HDs draw my eye better than any other. I've tried plain black, plain black painted orange, etc.
The rear to me is almost immaterial. I like a shelf or something else to hook on a belt or whatever for those one-handed manipulations.
I go away from tritium from time to time, and then I come back. Almost all of my pistol shooting is at night under "stadium lights" or at indoor ranges. I hear all these arguments for why plain black works ok in those situations and then I go try and I lose my sights and can't hit a damn thing, and I come back to my senses, and the tritium. If your eyes are sufficient to find a plain black front in reduced light more power to ya, but it doesn't work for me so the HD front is perfect. Would I prefer it to be a little narrower? Yeah, I think so, but first and foremost I have to be able to see the thing.
I've consistantly had excellent results with Warren Tactical sights on my Glock G34; plain black rear with a .150 rear U notch, and a .125 serated front, with the rear face painted Testor's Flourescent Green.
I've had very good results with Trijicon sights on one of my G19s; the white surround on the tritium tubes and the reasonable width of the front sight (or perhaps I should say, the reasonable narrowness) provides a very good day and night sight picture.
Frankly, I've also had quite good results with Glock sights, although I prefer to replace the polymer sights with their steel ones for durability, but for any sort of distance shooting the wide Glock front sight can be a bit of a challenge, as it'll likely cover the target in its entirety.
However, at the end of the day, using non-scientifically derived percentages, I've pretty much concluded that successful, accurate target acquisition and shot placement is 75% trigger control and 25% sight choice.
Best, Jon
I'm no expert by any means but will throw out my setup.
Glock 19 with Ameriglo Pro Operators. The front is green with the subdued yellows on back. From my limited experiences they work pretty good at night and during the day. The shooter just needs to get better.
misanthropist
03-16-12, 10:36
I don't argue that this is the best but I use it because I'm used to it and it has generally worked well for me:
Trijicon 3-dot
FS painted dayglo orange
red sharpie to the rear dots to dull them out
I am entirely open to the argument that something else might be better but I have no particular reason to think that I shoot to the limits of the sights I have, either. This system works well, I pick up the front sight easily and don't have accuracy issues. Currently good for a high-fives run on FAST, which makes me think they are probably not holding me back significantly.
learner-gr
03-16-12, 17:44
Not the tritium sight but more of a DIY :
http://www.glow-on.com/index.html
What;s your opinion about this?
I was searching for the ameriglo GL-212-220-GR-C but its almost impossible to get it here in Europe from US. So after searching for a different method i found the glow on. Comparing to the metal front glock sight i have now i think that it would be an ok add-on.
I only had stock sights and these are my first tritiums, but so far I love em.
standard 3 dot, green tritium lamps, white outline(dot is about as big as can fit in the front sight post). They have popped right out in every lighting condition I've been in so far. Plenty accurate for target shooting at 25yds, and very fast doing el pres at 7yds.
the only trit sights i found for my gun (cz 74compact 40) were trijicons and meprolites, I got the meprolites.
This is probably an "i dont know what I dont know" thing, but so far I like the 3 dot system. In doors on a cloudy day, finding sights can be a tough job, the tritium makes them pop out very quickly. That said, you have to know what acceptable accuracy is for the given range/situation and aim accordingly.
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