View Full Version : HELP! Brand new BCM upper not mating to brand new BCM lower!
I just got home today to my new BCM upper, took it out of the box, wiped all the oil off, put my rails on it, and went to put it on the lower. The front pin went in just fine, but the rear pin WILL NOT go through. More specifically, I don't believe it can go through because the upper will not go as far down into the lower like it should. I'm no expert to the AR platform, but am also no idiot either, and from what it looks like, the piece that sits down in the lower and has the pin go through it (no idea what that's called) is slightly - as in a millimeter maybe - too long and the whole thing won't fit perfectly flush or let me put the pin through. Is there a way to fix this??? Or will it just need to go back to BravoCompany? And I even took the BCG and charging handle out to make sure there was not issue with either of those. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think I am. I'll be really bummed if it has to go back; I was looking forward to breaking it in for my spring break. :mad:
Did you try pushing down harder? Is there anything you can see that is binding? Sometimes it can be a tight fit for brand new parts.
Contact Bravo and allow them to fix it.....wont take em long.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Did you buy or build the lower? Your buffer tube prohibiting it?
Nevermind, saw that you checked the BCG.
Is there a possibility it is the lower and not the upper? Can you try a different lower?
Can you post some pics?
I bought the lower from Grant about three months ago. It was a blem lower, but I know that's not it because I fitted the uppers from my dad's two ARs on it and they fit fine.
I tried pushing pretty hard. The front pin didn't want to go at first but then it went after a few tries, so I figured the same would happen with the rear...not so. So I tried a few more times....and a few more times...
Then I tried to put it on one of my dad's lowers and still the same thing. So I'm 99.99% sure it's the upper itself. And I don't believe it's got anything to do with the buffer tube. I can hold it up to the light and see a microscopic gap between the lower and upper running from about the bolt release to the top of the lower and end of the upper (where it curves). It doesn't appear that the upper is even touching anywhere near the buffer tube.
Has anyone heard of this happening before? Does the piece that connects the upper to the lower ever get made too long so it won't fit? Or am I the first?
p22shooter30
03-15-12, 14:35
should have got a delton :haha:
I would say try a different lower or put the upper onto a different lower (not your new BCM) and see what happens. Pictures would be helpful.
I've already done that and it still wouldn't go so it's not the lower; other uppers fit fine on it. And I don't have a camera, so I can't post pics. :confused:
I would say try a different lower or put the upper onto a different lower (not your new BCM) and see what happens. Pictures would be helpful.
One of my BCM uppers fits very snug onto my LMT lower. I have to play with it a bit but it goes on. Contact BCM as Wahoo stated above and let them take care of it. They have excellent customer service.
How is the best way to get in touch with them? I've called about a dozen times in the last 30-45 minutes and can't get through. Is e-mail better?
Odie Dozer
03-15-12, 14:53
I had an issue like this before. It seemed the shelf on the lower, right behind the trigger and below the rear take down pin was higher than on a different lower I had. Wouldn't let me close the upper. My BCM upper works great with it though.
How is the best way to get in touch with them? I've called about a dozen times in the last 30-45 minutes and can't get through. Is e-mail better?
Email
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
How is the best way to get in touch with them? I've called about a dozen times in the last 30-45 minutes and can't get through. Is e-mail better?
e-mail.
I would try a different take down pin if you have one. My SR-15 lower wouldn't fit on some uppers until I changed the pins.
I had an issue like this before. It seemed the shelf on the lower, right behind the trigger and below the rear take down pin was higher than on a different lower I had. Wouldn't let me close the upper. My BCM upper works great with it though.
It seems like I'm having the same problem, only the other way around...
To the OP, no, upper/lower fitment issues are not a new question; it comes up from time to time, however....
This is from the "Rules" button at the top of the page, with particular emphasis on #4:
https://www.m4carbine.net/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_new_faq_item
If you end up with photos and want to post them, let me know and they'll be added to the thread.
Otherwise, contact the vendor/manufacturer, as you agreed to do by the act of registering to and signing on to this forum, by voice and electronic means, and give them a reasonable chance to respond....hint -- like, a week. Don't mimic the poor, benighted idiot that posted a thread about PSA that pissed and moaned that they didn't get back to him within 48 hours....during SHOT Show week :rolleyes: :haha:
If they do not roger up, we'll open 'er up again, so you can describe the lack of resolution.
If they do roger up, we'll STILL open 'er up again so that you can describe the resolution OR lack thereof.
Please keep me, or IG, or another of the mods appraised via PM.
We have progress. Re-opened.
Some folks need to bear in mind that there's a difference between posting to say something, and posting because you have something to say.
There's a big difference between the two, with the latter being the preference.
Hey guys,
I e-mailed BCUSA right away on Thursday when I realized there was a problem and after being encouraged by some of you to do so as well. They got back to me right away the next morning and sent me a UPS shipping label to send it back to them which I did immediately. It's on it's way back to them and hopefully will be there by tomorrow or Tuesday at the latest. They said they'd check it to see what the problem was and then send it back or send me a replacement. Either way, it should all be taken care of soon and they are certainly living up to their reputation of having excellent customer service. Nothing negative to say whatsoever. Will give updates as available.
They'll resolve it but on your shipping dime.
I don't think so. They didn't mention anything about charging me for shipping in any of my e-mails with them. They e-mailed me the UPS letter right away and just told me to send it.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-18-12, 23:52
They'll resolve it but on your shipping dime.
:eek:
What an asinine comment to make before hand, and especially more so now that you were proven wrong.
What an asinine comment to make before hand, and especially more so now that you were proven wrong.
Word.
TangoSauce
03-19-12, 00:10
What an asinine comment to make before hand, and especially more so now that you were proven wrong.
I'm not wrong from my own experience.
Slvr Surfr
03-22-12, 13:12
Well the OP is the not the only one to have this issue. I just received my BCM middy LW upper and I can not instal it on my BCM blem lower or my wifes PSA lower. The front pin will go it but the rear absolutely will not.
I have contacted BCM to see what they can do for me.
Here are pics of my problem upper just for illustration. The CH and BCG have been removed just to limit any other possibilities.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e341/helas_9/AR15/IMAG0176.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e341/helas_9/AR15/IMAG0174.jpg
Is the gap between the upper and lower the same from the pivot pin to the takedown pin area? Or is it less at the front and more at the back? I can't tell from the second photo, but how is the location of the rear takedown hole drilled in the lug on the upper located in relation to the hole in the lower? Is it slightly above, forward, or to the rear of the hole in the receiver? If you don't push in the forward pivot pin,can you push in the rear takedown pin? It could be that the hole in the lug was drilled off center or possibly the bottom of the upper receiver wasn't machined true and is preventing the upper takedown hole from lining up with the lower receiver hole. Just another test, does your wife's upper fit in your lower? If it does than you can rule out the lower being suspect.
For those having trouble, is your hammer cocked or not while mating upper and lower?
If not cocked, try that. My bcms are very tight on a non cocked hammer. Cocked slides right in.
I'm not wrong from my own experience.
I've never heard of BCM charging anyone to ship back one of their parts. Well, aside from you. I just sent an upper back to BCM and it was a 6 day turn around from the time they received it. Yes, that means I received my upper back on the 6th day since they had received it. Not only that, I got all kinds of goodies like decals, stickers, BCM hat, SWAT article, and my parts were covered in the sweet smelling lube!
Yeah.. guess what.. they did not make me pay for shipping. I had a UPS shipping label in my inbox before I even requested to ship it back!!
You, sir, are full of shiat. :nono:
(or BCM just hates you ;))
BravoCompanyUSA
03-22-12, 16:14
Thank you for this info.
I have just ran in back and ceased ALL production. Every single upper on the shelf is getting rechecked per TDP.
If anyone has an issue, please email us at info@bravocompanyusa.com and we will get it squared away most riki tik.
VERY Sorry for any inconvenience.
Paul
Cocked slides right in.
:lol::lol::lol:
Slvr Surfr
03-22-12, 16:39
Is the gap between the upper and lower the same from the pivot pin to the takedown pin area? Or is it less at the front and more at the back? I can't tell from the second photo, but how is the location of the rear takedown hole drilled in the lug on the upper located in relation to the hole in the lower? Is it slightly above, forward, or to the rear of the hole in the receiver? If you don't push in the forward pivot pin,can you push in the rear takedown pin? It could be that the hole in the lug was drilled off center or possibly the bottom of the upper receiver wasn't machined true and is preventing the upper takedown hole from lining up with the lower receiver hole. Just another test, does your wife's upper fit in your lower? If it does than you can rule out the lower being suspect.
There is a consistent gap from the front pin to the rear between the upper and lower. It is as if the rear of the upper as it curves down from the charging handle is too thick for it to mate properly with the lower.
I honestly could not tell just where the rear lug of the upper sat within the hole in the lower. The lube you see on around the rear take down pin was my brief hope that maybe, just maybe, the lug might have been just a tight fit. I didn't want to force it anymore than that. I did also try to put the rear take down pin in first. It simply would not fit.
I also personally always try to put uppers and lowers together with the hammer in the down and cocked position. That was not the issue for sure. This upper would not sit on two different lowers that I know are perfectly functional. Just to make sure it wasn't my lower, I tried my wife's PSA upper on my BCM lower. It fits normally.
BCM has already emailed me back and are sending a return label. This is the first issue I have ever had with any BCM product. I know they will make it right.
Slvr Surfr
03-22-12, 16:47
Thank you for this info.
I have just ran in back and ceased ALL production. Every single upper on the shelf is getting rechecked per TDP.
If anyone has an issue, please email us at info@bravocompanyusa.com and we will get it squared away most riki tik.
VERY Sorry for any inconvenience.
Paul
Paul,
Thank you for your input! I know you guys are on top of the problem.
Slvr Surfr's photos look exactly how my carbine looked when I had the same issues. And I did the same things he has done - try with and without BCG and CH, lube, trying to put the back pin in first, trying other lower/upper combos, cocking the hammer, un-cocking the hammer. Same result every time. I hate to hear about this happening to someone else - I was hoping mine was just a fluke. Like Slvr Surfr, I got a return label right away and the upper is already back at BCUSA right now - I've had nothing but great CS so far. I'm 100% confident they'll resolve the problem.
Just checked my week old BCM upper. Seems fine.:cool:
Is that a fast response or what? A couple of members have a problem and it's BOOM, the top dog of BCM gets right on it pronto, and informs us what they're doing to check on it and get to a resolution. Yes sir, their reputation is well deserved.
Well, it certainly was a fast response. I sent the bad upper back to BCM last Friday after lunch, and a replacement was on my front porch at 11am this morning! Complete with another hat, stickers, and a 1oz. bottle of Slip 2000. I had sent them an e-mail for a status update to see if they knew what was wrong with the upper and just curious what the current status was on the situation. I didn't get an answer, but got an upper instead. Hard to beat that. I don't think one can ask for better customer service than Bravo Company. I am deeply impressed and am now a lifelong customer.
Thanks very much for the awesome CS! I now have a great carbine, thanks to BCM!
Interesting, I just received a BCM LW middy about 3 weeks ago and it works fine in both BCM lowers and both Colt lowers I have. Must have been a small sample of defective uppers.
No company is perfect, but what separates the men from the boys is how they handle problems, I have never had to use BCM's customer service, but have heard nothing but exemplary things about Paul and his company.
Doc Safari
03-23-12, 16:59
No company is perfect, but what separates the men from the boys is how they handle problems, I have never had to use BCM's customer service, but have heard nothing but exemplary things about Paul and his company.
I've never gotten anything bad from them (knock on wood). :D
Sounds like the bad uppers are a fluke. With demand for rifles, parts, and uppers way up you're going to encounter a few more mistakes than during a slow period.
The way they addressed it is downright heroic.
Is that a fast response or what? A couple of members have a problem and it's BOOM, the top dog of BCM gets right on it pronto, and informs us what they're doing to check on it and get to a resolution. Yes sir, their reputation is well deserved.
Yep, impressive. http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/images/smilies/rock.gif
steelonsteel
03-23-12, 17:13
I got a 16" m4 upper last week, and I picked up my BCM4 lower today at my ffl, and had this thread in mind when i picjed it up. there is a very slight gap between the two and small amount of play between the upper and lower. You had to really look for it to find it actually, otherwise you woudn't have noticed. I compared it to not only my colt at home, but also to three colts and a daniel defense at the shop - all were extremely caomparable. There were no seating issues, no strength needed to push the pins, nothing. I'd say it was ideally setup to have just enough movement to allow for dirt and debris. it was actually slightly better in fit than my colt!
TangoSauce
03-23-12, 18:10
Interesting that my post of their email was deleted from this thread as well as the fact that BCM did not respond to my recent email inquiring why I had to pay out of pocket for shipping after I received an upper with a bbl scratched through the parker.
:confused:
TangoSauce
03-23-12, 18:21
I've never heard of BCM charging anyone to ship back one of their parts. Well, aside from you. I just sent an upper back to BCM and it was a 6 day turn around from the time they received it. Yes, that means I received my upper back on the 6th day since they had received it. Not only that, I got all kinds of goodies like decals, stickers, BCM hat, SWAT article, and my parts were covered in the sweet smelling lube!
Yeah.. guess what.. they did not make me pay for shipping. I had a UPS shipping label in my inbox before I even requested to ship it back!!
You, sir, are full of shiat. :nono:
(or BCM just hates you ;))
http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k596/TangoSauce/BCMemail.jpg
http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k596/TangoSauce/BCMemail.jpg
So, did you return a defective product or return something you decided you didn't want?
Two different things with two different expectations. Paying shipping to get defective parts replaced is BS. Expecting a vendor to pay shipping cuz you have buyer's remorse is BS.
H
TangoSauce
03-23-12, 19:29
Interesting that my post of their email was deleted from this thread as well as the fact that BCM did not respond to my recent email inquiring why I had to pay out of pocket for shipping after I received an upper with a bbl scratched through the parker.
:confused:
So, did you return a defective product or return something you decided you didn't want?
Two different things with two different expectations. Paying shipping to get defective parts replaced is BS. Expecting a vendor to pay shipping cuz you have buyer's remorse is BS.
H
Reading helps, sir.
"Safe queen curators need not apply."
TangoSauce
03-23-12, 19:49
"Safe queen curators need not apply."
Yeah, I get that. This wasn't a minor blem.
I am not bashing BCM here in any way, love their gear and their CS has been top notch in my experiences.
But, since everyone is jumping on Tangosauce just thought I'd chime in and say that on the only part I've sent back, it was defective, I paid the shipping. However, I did not ask them to pay for shipping either so take that for what it's worth.
I honestly didn't think anything of it at the time and I am definitely not upset about it though.
No it's not interesting. This thread has nothing to do with your situation, so please refrain from posting anything more about it.
Interesting that my post of their email was deleted from this thread as well as the fact that BCM did not respond to my recent email inquiring why I had to pay out of pocket for shipping after I received an upper with a bbl scratched through the parker.
:confused:
TangoSauce, I hate you had a negative CS experience with BCM. I don't know the severity of the problem you described with your upper, but it may be that they didn't cover your shipping because the upper/carbine was still functional and it didn't impede operation.
The problem with my upper, and Silvr Surfr's, left us with completely inoperable and useless weapons. As such, we spent $400 and basically received nothing. This may be why our shipping was covered and yours wasn't. Just a guess, but I really hate you had a bad experience. Aside from shipping charges, was your issue resolved?
TangoSauce
03-23-12, 21:44
TangoSauce, I hate you had a negative CS experience with BCM. I don't know the severity of the problem you described with your upper, but it may be that they didn't cover your shipping because the upper/carbine was still functional and it didn't impede operation.
The problem with my upper, and Silvr Surfr's, left us with completely inoperable and useless weapons. As such, we spent $400 and basically received nothing. This may be why our shipping was covered and yours wasn't. Just a guess, but I really hate you had a bad experience. Aside from shipping charges, was your issue resolved?
Thanks. Yes, it was otherwise resolved. Was not my intention to thread jack either, but once I get called a liar and biatch I just wanted to show that in fact I am neither. /out
Slvr Surfr
03-24-12, 09:25
Just an update for anyone following this thread.
BCM Did promptly send me the return shipping label. The upper has since been packaged and mailed as of 5pm last night. They should get it by Wednesday next week.
So far the CS from BCM has been nothing short of great. :dirol:
Just FYI. I got my new BCM upper yesterday and so far no fitting issues at all. It fits my spikes and surplus ammo lowers very well. The normal tiny gap that an acuwedge will take care of. It looks like the issue presented on this thread was isolated to just a couple of people. In any case, it is amazing that Paul himself got involved right away. Wow, what a great customer service. Good thing we all bought from a great company. Great job BCM and good luck to the gentlemen that encountered the issue...I am sure everything will get resolved to your satisfaction.
NavyDavy55
03-24-12, 13:27
I just received a BCM LW middy about 3 weeks ago and it works fine in both an Aero Precision lower and a Bushmaster.
I've never heard of BCM charging anyone to ship back one of their parts. Well, aside from you. I just sent an upper back to BCM and it was a 6 day turn around from the time they received it. Yes, that means I received my upper back on the 6th day since they had received it. Not only that, I got all kinds of goodies like decals, stickers, BCM hat, SWAT article, and my parts were covered in the sweet smelling lube!
Yeah.. guess what.. they did not make me pay for shipping. I had a UPS shipping label in my inbox before I even requested to ship it back!!
You, sir, are full of shiat. :nono:
(or BCM just hates you ;))
Nice edit... Maybe it would be good not to jump to conclusions like many seem to do these days. :rolleyes:
Just an update for anyone following this thread.
BCM Did promptly send me the return shipping label. The upper has since been packaged and mailed as of 5pm last night. They should get it by Wednesday next week.
So far the CS from BCM has been nothing short of great. :dirol:
If your experience is anything like mine you should have a new upper within the next week. Mine went out on a Friday, and had a new one on the porch the next Friday! Couldn't ask for a faster turn around time! Good luck with your carbine!
Slvr Surfr
03-31-12, 08:04
Final update on my dilema fellas. Bcm received my defective upper on Wednesday. They had my replacement upper in my hands by mid day Friday. The new upper fits like a glove. I haven't had a chance to hit the range yet, but I'm sure everything will fun just fine.:dance3::dance3:
Paul and BCM definitely stand behind their stuff!:dirol:
This isn't totally uncommon. You can find information on how to get them to fit. Obviously - you are very lucky to have BCM taking care of you, but I'm just posting this for reference.
I did a build with some no name "Delaware Machine" lower, and it wouldn't mate my upper. I guess Delaware did a contract batch of lowers. I liked it because it was almost blank - no rollmarks.
Anyways, researched it and found to lube the shit out of the lower. Particularly near the the rear where it hangs up. Then hit it with a rubber mallet, open it up, repeat until the rear takedown holes are aligned. Then lightly tap the rear takedown pin with something until it seats.
To take apart, you will need a punch. I've heard That the upper and lower will "break in" after 100 rounds. Not my experience. That gun is creeping to 1k and still requires a punch and hammer to break open. Not my most favorite firearm in the stable.
I'm posting this for anyone who may search this in the future, and doesn't have someone like Paul / BCM around to fix it.
steelonsteel
03-31-12, 08:37
oustanding to hear! glad to knowit worked out!
I have a 16 inch rifle and two matched uppers/lowers that I have used in builds, all from the same very well-known and highly regarded mfgr . Although the uppers all fit the lowers that they were matched to perfectly, none of the uppers will fit on any either of the other two lowers. It happens.
Glad to hear that everything worked out for you. This is one reason why I buy from BCM. Well, that and the smell of a fresh upper just out of the package. :sarcastic: I ordered a 16" lightweight middy upper last Sunday, and there was a note on the site stating to expect a one day delay in shipping. Wednesday afternoon I had a little package of joy on my front porch. It fit perfectly in my blemished BCM lower. So much for the delayed shipping.:D
trlcavscout
04-01-12, 00:50
I got lucky although I know BCM is top notch if I did have a problem. I ordered my 5th upper from them on the 20th and it fits great. I really like their LW 14.5" uppers.
Building my first, and am expecting my upper on Tuesday. Heard nothing but great things about BCM, and, with Paul actually stepping in and addressing the problem as he did, I have no worries about it.
Ordered the 16" Standard Mid-length upper, and should, hopefully, have it to the range within a week.
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