View Full Version : Improving H.K. triggers?
I have read/heard many complaints about the triggers on H.K. pistols.
Why doesn't somebody just design a better trigger for these guns? Is there something inherent in the design of an H.K. pistol to prevent such a thing from happening?
That is my only complaint about H&K pistols.
Gray Guns offers trigger jobs for these pistols, and more than a few people have sent their H&K pistols to him for his services. I have yet to hear of an issue caused by him improving the trigger, so I have to assume that there is room in the design for improvement, without effecting performance. H&K would have a lot more civilian customers if they just improved this aspect of their pistols.
http://grayguns.com/gunsmith-services/heckler-koch-pistols/
gtmtnbiker98
03-17-12, 17:39
Train through the trigger shortcomings. It is the best method.
What's wrong with them?
Long trigger pulls, heavy, etc.
Can you shoot them well? Yes. Do you have to work at it more? Yes.
C4
Long trigger pulls, heavy, etc.
Can you shoot them well? Yes. Do you have to work at it more? Yes.
C4
Ditto. Dry fire drills are essential for any pistol. After that, 25 yard bulls help a lot. After that, scary accurate in my opinion. Tremendous platform, but practice makes perfect.
Battle*Hound
03-17-12, 19:28
Train through the trigger shortcomings. It is the best method.
I completely agree
I've heard one of the lem versions is very similar to the triggers on kahr pistols. Is that an accurate representation? Are they as long a pull, but as smooth as the kahr?
I've heard one of the lem versions is very similar to the triggers on kahr pistols. Is that an accurate representation? Are they as long a pull, but as smooth as the kahr?
Since I have two H&K LEM pistols and two Kahrs, I'll give you my thoughts on this question.
They are similar, but they are different. They are more similar than they are different, however.
Both have a long pull.
Kahr is much smoother and more like a very good double action revolver.
The H&K LEM does have more distinct stages to its pull travel. Initial travel is lighter (just trigger return spring pressure) than later stage.
That said, I do not find transitioning between these two systems to be a problem. Therefore I find my Kahr PM9 as a compact solution, and H&K P30 as full size solution, to work well together.
Battle*Hound
03-18-12, 14:39
They are similar, but they are different. They are more similar than they are different.
philosophy 101 :D
I've heard one of the lem versions is very similar to the triggers on kahr pistols. Is that an accurate representation? Are they as long a pull, but as smooth as the kahr?
I have a USPc 40 with a light LEM system and about 10k rds through it. I just recently purchased a Kahr K9 (elite trigger I believe) and in my opinion it is the closest trigger to the LEM that I have shot. It's not exactly the same but pretty damn close. The reset on the HK is much shorter and the long travel is lighter/smoother as well. I had the opportunity to shoot an Air Marshall's duty issued uspc 40 with the standard LEM recently and think it was closer to the Kahr in terms of spring tension and reset. It's amazing how much the LEM's smooth out the more you shoot it.
Overall I think the Kahr and LEM HK's are a great match. I can shoot either platform fairly well when switching from one to the other.
FWIW I have no experience with the plastic Kahr's.
Since I have two H&K LEM pistols and two Kahrs, I'll give you my thoughts on this question.
They are similar, but they are different. They are more similar than they are different, however.
Both have a long pull.
Kahr is much smoother and more like a very good double action revolver.
The H&K LEM does have more distinct stages to its pull travel. Initial travel is lighter (just trigger return spring pressure) than later stage.
That said, I do not find transitioning between these two systems to be a problem. Therefore I find my Kahr PM9 as a compact solution, and H&K P30 as full size solution, to work well together.
I have a USPc 40 with a light LEM system and about 10k rds through it. I just recently purchased a Kahr K9 (elite trigger I believe) and in my opinion it is the closest trigger to the LEM that I have shot. It's not exactly the same but pretty damn close. The reset on the HK is much shorter and the long travel is lighter/smoother as well. I had the opportunity to shoot an Air Marshall's duty issued uspc 40 with the standard LEM recently and think it was closer to the Kahr in terms of spring tension and reset. It's amazing how much the LEM's smooth out the more you shoot it.
Overall I think the Kahr and LEM HK's are a great match. I can shoot either platform fairly well when switching from one to the other.
FWIW I have no experience with the plastic Kahr's.
Good, info, thank's guys.
My wife carries and PM9. I've had an E9 for a while, and just picked up a newer K9 (my understanding is that all the K9's post 03 or 05ish have the "Elite trigger"??)
Anyhow, I like to carry single stack in the summer and at work. I have M&P's for when I carry a double stack. I would like to carry with a more similar trigger. I have a buddy looking to consolidate with a PPS/PPQ combo. I think that's a great match up. I thought about making that switch too, but I find I like the Kahr more than the PPS. My wife certainly does. Perhaps the HK will make a better addition, hence my question regarding trigger similarities. A P30 and a 2000 to go in the lineup with the Kahrs perhaps?
Anyhow, did not mean to derail. Thanks for the info.
Train through the trigger shortcomings. It is the best method.
Yep. That said, on DA/SA variants, a light FPBS ($7) and light mainspring ($11) are the only two fixes I need.
Yep. That said, on DA/SA variants, a light FPBS ($7) and light mainspring ($11) are the only two fixes I need.
Ditto.
I've got a v2 LEM. A changing to the springs mentioned and shooting the gun yields a trigger pull that I actually really like. Reset is still very long, but the strong trigger return spring pushes my finger forward so fast it doesn't cause issues.
I guess ignorance truly is bliss. I have a P2000 V2 LEM & the trigger doesn't seem terrible to me as some have deemed it to be. It is what it is. I don't shoot nearly as much as many here do, but I have been shooting for a long time. I guess I just never think so much about the trigger on what I'm shooting, I just get on with the shooting.
Lucky Strike
03-19-12, 11:07
I've got an LEM P30 that was worked on by Greyguns. I really like it and honestly it wasn't that bad in stock form. If you're someone who demands a short reset then the LEM is not for you.
For me though I find that I shoot it just as well as my Apex'd M&P
My EDC is an HK45c. I thought the trigger itself had a bit of flex in it, but after watching all the parts move the flex is in the bar that connects the trigger to the sear. I suspect that the light LEM trigger will show less effect from this because with less spring weight to overcome there will be less flex int he trigger bar.
Pistol Shooter
03-19-12, 16:35
Train through the trigger shortcomings. It is the best method.
Agreed.
It takes time and practice but the results are worth it IMHO.
Good luck OP. :)
As others have said, somewhat surprisingly, my advice too is to adjust to your tool. Train yourself to be adaptable to your trigger and you'll find, with experience, you can shoot just about any trigger well. No two pistol triggers are the same and you're not always going to have your 1911 handy.
For instance, my P7 triggers are completely different than any of my other HK's and amongst the others there are slight differences between them.
It appears that the majority of the complaints about HK triggers are the LEM versions. Every time I open one of these threads, the discussion seems to mention LEM triggers and not the DA/SA variants.
I have a HK USP 40c V1 and I haven't had any bad experiences with the trigger. It was my first pistol, so maybe that's how I thought all triggers were. I've also shot a duty issued HK P2000 with the LEM trigger and the pull did have the two distinct stages that many of you have mentioned. I didn't really notice the length of reset, but I wasn't really evaluating the gun at that time.
That said, most of my pistol shooting of late have been with Glocks and my HK is mostly used when I take friends shooting to have a variety of guns for them to try.
I have read/heard many complaints about the triggers on H.K. pistols.
Why doesn't somebody just design a better trigger for these guns? Is there something inherent in the design of an H.K. pistol to prevent such a thing from happening?
I currently own a P2000 V3 .40, HK45 and HK45c.
Of the 3, the P2000 has the worst trigger with a ridiculous reset.
I really don't find the HK45 or HK45c to be a problem at all.
My HK45c is the best of the 3. I don't think they warrant a 400.00 trigger job to make them acceptable.
It appears that the majority of the complaints about HK triggers are the LEM versions.
Not necessarily. There are lot of HK users who absolutely swear by the LEM. -Typically those who can't handle anything other than a single consistent trigger pull.
I've read more whining about the DA/SA pull differences which I think is silly. You never "really" know the age or experience level of the person doing the complaining, I chalk a lot of it up to 21 year olds who have more experience behind the keyboard than the trigger. *But hey, I've been known to be wrong before and generalizations are usually not very accurate.
I have nearly every trigger combination they make except the match, which is "said to be" very good and I don't have a problem with any of them.
Guinnessman
03-21-12, 08:59
The LEM trigger on my HK P2000SK is very smooth and predictable. I prefer the short reset of my Glocks, but after a lot of dry fire practice and range time, the LEM is easy to adjust to.
My LEM trigger has been very smooth from day one.
Personally, if you're talking DA/SA, I think Sig has a much smoother trigger than an HK. The HK trigger is stiffer. Consequently that first DA shot is a little more difficult to get off quickly and accurately. I also feel that stiffness when firing it single action, but in the SA mode the stiffness, to me, gives it a more positive feel, so it's not necessarily a bad trade off.
The only stock trigger that I've run that I would replace without question is the M&P trigger. I've run them in all three calibers and couldn't get along with the stock trigger. Glock, Sig and HK are workable, at least to me, just depends on what you're looking for in a pistol. For me, Glock equals quickest and HK most accurate. Sig is in the middle.
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