View Full Version : Holder 1995: We Must Brainwash People Against Guns
ForTehNguyen
03-18-12, 18:24
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/18/Holder-Fight-Guns-Like-Cigarettes
video:
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/18/Holder-Outlines-How-To-Change-Public-Opinion-On-Guns
THE VETTING - HOLDER 1995: WE MUST 'BRAINWASH' PEOPLE ON GUNS
By JOEL B. POLLAK
Breitbart.com has uncovered video from 1995 of then-U.S. Attorney Eric Holder announcing a public campaign to "really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way."
Holder was addressing the Woman's National Democratic Club. In his remarks, broadcast by CSPAN 2, he explained that he intended to use anti-smoking campaigns as his model to "change the hearts and minds of people in Washington, DC" about guns.
"What we need to do is change the way in which people think about guns, especially young people, and make it something that's not cool, that it's not acceptable, it's not hip to carry a gun anymore, in the way in which we changed our attitudes about cigarettes."
Holder added that he had asked advertising agencies in the nation's capital to assist by making anti-gun ads rather than commercials "that make me buy things that I don't really need." He had also approached local newspapers and television stations, he said, asking them to devote prime space and time, respectively, to his anti-gun campaign.
Local political leaders and celebrities, Holder said, including Mayor Marion Barry and Jesse Jackson, had been asked to help. In addition, he reported, he had asked the local school board to make the anti-gun message a part of "every day, every school, and every level."
Despite strict gun control efforts, Washington, DC was and remains one of the nation's most dangerous cities for gun violence, though crime has abated somewhat since the 1990s.
Holder went on to become Deputy Attorney General in the Clinton administration, and currently serves as Attorney General in the Obama Administration.
The video of Holder's remarks was uncovered by Breitbart.com contributor Charles C. Johnson.
Holder was addressing the Woman's National Democratic Club.
It doesn't take a lot of detergent to lather those neurons...
montanadave
03-18-12, 20:23
I'm no big Holder fan, but it seems to me his remarks were directed towards discouraging school kids and wannabe gang-bangers from carrying illegal handguns. And that's a good thing in my mind.
If young people want to learn about responsible gun ownership, gun safety, gun handling, and marksmenship I'd much prefer they received proper instruction as opposed to picking up their "skills" from video games or the movies.
An attention-grabbing headline without much of a story to back it up.
DeltaSierra
03-18-12, 20:25
I'm no big Holder fan, but it seems to me his remarks were directed towards discouraging school kids and wannabe gang-bangers from carrying illegal handguns. And that's a good thing in my mind.
If young people want to learn about responsible gun ownership, gun safety, gun handling, and marksmenship I'd much prefer they received proper instruction as opposed to picking up their "skills" from video games or the movies.
An attention-grabbing headline without much of a story to back it up.
Thanks for the excellent post...
The absolute hatred of the current regime is a bit ridiculous at times...
I'm no big Holder fan, but it seems to me his remarks were directed towards discouraging school kids and wannabe gang-bangers from carrying illegal handguns. And that's a good thing in my mind.
If young people want to learn about responsible gun ownership, gun safety, gun handling, and marksmenship I'd much prefer they received proper instruction as opposed to picking up their "skills" from video games or the movies.
An attention-grabbing headline without much of a story to back it up.
I think that you're on his side. That's what I read from your posts.
ForTehNguyen
03-18-12, 20:42
I'm no big Holder fan, but it seems to me his remarks were directed towards discouraging school kids and wannabe gang-bangers from carrying illegal handguns. And that's a good thing in my mind.
If young people want to learn about responsible gun ownership, gun safety, gun handling, and marksmenship I'd much prefer they received proper instruction as opposed to picking up their "skills" from video games or the movies.
An attention-grabbing headline without much of a story to back it up.
not sure if serious, but I'll bite
it says "young people" not gangsters. When you read "young people" you immediately thought of gang bangers? No where does it say anything about educating anyone about firearms just throwing up anti gun ads like anti cigarette ads. Not only that to make "anti gun" part of everyday, every school, and every level. Doesnt sound like educating for safe and proper handling. Sounds more like textbook indoctrination.
Did you even read the article?
The absolute hatred of the current regime is a bit ridiculous at times...
No it isn't.
Thanks for the excellent post...
The absolute hatred of the current regime is a bit ridiculous at times...
Give us a reason to be pleased with the current administration.
The_War_Wagon
03-18-12, 21:09
I'm no big Holder fan, but it seems to me his remarks were directed towards discouraging school kids and wannabe gang-bangers from carrying illegal handguns.
Newsflash - this Grade A Libtard, thinks WE'RE 'wanna-be gang-bangers' for WANTING to exercise our 2nd Amendment liberties. Screw him, AND the Obama he rode in on. :mad:
Were a REAL American to win the Presidency, Holder would be headed to the gallows 5 minutes after that President was sworn in. As would most of this current numbnut insurrection. :mad:
I'm no big Holder fan, but it seems to me his remarks were directed towards discouraging school kids and wannabe gang-bangers from carrying illegal handguns. And that's a good thing in my mind.
If young people want to learn about responsible gun ownership, gun safety, gun handling, and marksmenship I'd much prefer they received proper instruction as opposed to picking up their "skills" from video games or the movies.
An attention-grabbing headline without much of a story to back it up.
It can be taken two ways.
One: "Kids, don't play with guns...Mmmmkay?"
Two: "Let's make gun ownership and use unpalatable to society by demonizing them like cigarettes."
Now, based on Holder & Company's MO, which is more likely? The very way he proposes to go about it is to make guns look as deadly and unnecessary as cigarettes. Think about the anti-smoking PSA's and how they have kids not only refusing to smoke and signing non-smoking pledges, but also harassing their parents because they smoke.
I believe your view in this case is naive. :(
QuietShootr
03-18-12, 21:55
It can be taken two ways.
One: "Kids, don't play with guns...Mmmmkay?"
Two: "Let's make gun ownership and use unpalatable to society by demonizing them like cigarettes."
Now, based on Holder & Company's MO, which is more likely? The very way he proposes to go about it is to make guns look as deadly and unnecessary as cigarettes. Think about the anti-smoking PSA's and how they have kids not only refusing to smoke and signing non-smoking pledges, but also harassing their parents because they smoke.
I believe your view in this case is naive. :(
It isn't naivete, he knows exactly what he's doing, though he may not be consciously doing it.
montanadave
03-18-12, 22:02
It isn't naivete, he knows exactly what he's doing, though he may not be consciously doing it.
WOW! Now that is sig line material. :lol:
QuietShootr
03-18-12, 22:07
WOW! Now that is sig line material. :lol:
Only if you don't believe that 40 years of Communist social programming has created a mental state where, as that famous Socialist Orwell said, "Orthodoxy is unconscious." Let's not forget that with the exposure of the Venona Project documents, poor old maligned Joe McCarthy was proven to be overwhelmingly right. Take a deep breath before you respond, because there is no correct response other than "You're right."
The programming didn't take with a (vanishingly small number) of us.
Y'all are winning by attrition, but some of us are going to be around for a while yet.
DeltaSierra
03-18-12, 22:13
No it isn't.
Oh?
I could bring up far worse things that the Bush regime supported, yet no one would care....
My point is simply that this mindless hatred of the current system is ridiculous. Unless you are willing to bring up some other issues (such as the PATRIOT Act, extraordinary rendition, Iran-Contra, and other important issues that were brought to us, or encouraged by Republican administrations) you have no business screaming about this current administration.
It is time that we dealt with some real issues, rather than these make-believe issues that are spoon-fed to the population by right or left wing media moguls that make money by stirring up the populace over these supposed issues...
Thanks for the excellent post...
The absolute hatred of the current regime is a bit ridiculous at times...
Do you know anything about Fast & Furious and Eric Holder? What about the NDAA?
Nevermind... I'm gonna go back to reading the wife's Us magazine. At least finding out who Kim Kardashian is blowing this week doesn't elevate my blood pressure.
Oh?
I could bring up far worse things that the Bush regime supported, yet no one would care....
My point is simply that this mindless hatred of the current system is ridiculous. Unless you are willing to bring up some other issues (such as the PATRIOT Act, extraordinary rendition, Iran-Contra, and other important issues that were brought to us, or encouraged by Republican administrations) you have no business screaming about this current administration.
It is time that we dealt with some real issues, rather than these make-believe issues that are spoon-fed to the population by right or left wing media moguls that make money by stirring up the populace over these supposed issues...
The problem with those issues is that they're past issues on the creation side. Bush and Reagan will not be creating more issues, Obama and Holder will. Personally, I'd love to see the Patriot Act repealed. Sadly, it has overwhelming support from both sides. :( :(
Oh?
I could bring up far worse things that the Bush regime supported, yet no one would care....
Many criticisms of the Bush administration are also completely appropriate. That the Bush administration did or didn't do ****ed up shit has nothing to do with the validity of the many criticisms of the Obama administration.
I haven't seen many examples of unreasonable criticism of Obama, for example I haven't seen anyone engage in serious conspiracy nonsense about OBL still being alive, you can BET if Bush was in office when OBL was dropped in the drink it would make the controversy about him continuing to read children stories on 9-11 look like nothing.
The sad, sad fact is there are simply so many valid and major criticisms of the Obama administration that nobody needs to waste time with nonsense like "Obama faked OBLs death to get reelected."
And while we are on the subject, I bet if you did a poll, you would discover that the vast majority of this forum supports the actions of the Obama administration with respect to leaving Pakistan in the ****ing dark because we can't trust those assholes and taking the opportunity to kill OBL when it presented itself despite the risks related to such a precarious operation (we all remember how Eagle Claw went down).
The only criticism most will voice was dropping his ass in the drink rather than giving him the Mussolini treatment from the skids of a helo. But even with that decision and the fact that it was motivated out of consideration for not offending our enemies, I bet you would find this entire forum mostly supportive.
But sadly such decisions and actions seem to be the exception rather than the rule. And I hardly consider the actions of Holder to be a non issue. His attempts to demonize the firearm community led directly to crap like Fast & Furious and rather than accept responsibility he is still trying to blame guns and gun owners.
I'm no big Holder fan, but it seems to me his remarks were directed towards discouraging school kids and wannabe gang-bangers from carrying illegal handguns. And that's a good thing in my mind.
If young people want to learn about responsible gun ownership, gun safety, gun handling, and marksmenship I'd much prefer they received proper instruction as opposed to picking up their "skills" from video games or the movies.
An attention-grabbing headline without much of a story to back it up.
The problem is that Holder never called for gun safety, responsible ownership, or keeping kids out of gangs. Instead, he spoke of a global anti-gun message that focused on kids, but also targeted adults. Is it the worst thing that Holder has done? No, but it is yet another reason to vote ABO in November.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-18-12, 23:50
Oh?
I could bring up far worse things that the Bush regime supported, yet no one would care....
My point is simply that this mindless hatred of the current system is ridiculous. Unless you are willing to bring up some other issues (such as the PATRIOT Act, extraordinary rendition, Iran-Contra, and other important issues that were brought to us, or encouraged by Republican administrations) you have no business screaming about this current administration.
It is time that we dealt with some real issues, rather than these make-believe issues that are spoon-fed to the population by right or left wing media moguls that make money by stirring up the populace over these supposed issues...
So, in your opinion, would you say that no one can criticize current policy without criticizing all past policy from previous administrations? If so, I bet better break out the OLD Brittanica's and read up on my presidential history, because I have some grievences I would like to get off my chest.
To those saying that Holder wasn't in the wrong, you terrify me. My children arent gang bangers, I wasnt a gang banger as a child. If the schools had pushed anti-2A propaganda down my throat just to curb the 1 or 2 gang bangers in my Loveland, CO elementary school, that would have been incredibly disturbing. He wasnt saying this to help kids be responsible around guns, to curb gang shootings, he was saying this in an attempt to carry out his liberal 2A agenda. An agenda, mind you, that he has proven (Op FF) time and time again that he will stop at nothing to get what he wants. Gun violence must be stopped, even if it means he must increase gun violence, the ends justify the means comrades!
There is nothing that the left is not capable of.
Thanks for the excellent post...
The absolute hatred of the current regime is a bit ridiculous at times...
Eh, I don't really see it as just a blindly biased hatred- I thinks it's simply a case of, stuff has been going on for a long time and this just so happens to be the administration it's all coming to a boil over.
I'm no big Holder fan, but it seems to me his remarks were directed towards discouraging school kids and wannabe gang-bangers from carrying illegal handguns. And that's a good thing in my mind.
If young people want to learn about responsible gun ownership, gun safety, gun handling, and marksmenship I'd much prefer they received proper instruction as opposed to picking up their "skills" from video games or the movies.
An attention-grabbing headline without much of a story to back it up.
Your post is so far off target you'd need a map and a compass to find your fourth point of contact. Did you even bother to watch the video? Do you really think gang bangers watch the "fresh prince of belair" or "martin"? If "you know someone who carries a gun, tell chief thomas" He comments on hammering the schools about an anti-violence measure. BRAVO But then he screws it up by adding "guns", because we all know if they don't have a gun they would never think to turn to a knife right? He comments on "brainwashing" peoples perception about guns. Clearly he can't use logic instead. He mentions about wanting to get people "cowering" about guns like the smokers do now when they sneak out for a quick hit. He said no less than FOUR times "PEOPLE" Then he throws in as an aside to tug on the heart strings and give his message a little extra umph with the target audience, "particularly young people." His target is EVERYONE, his methodology is to target the children while their minds are unformed and malleable, the side effect of possibly saving a few children is moot to him. He commented 2/3's through on changing "adults" perception of firearms. Your apologist attitude is only slightly less repulsive than the CIC's. Don't interpret my tone as inferring Bush's term and actions were all golden, but let's not pretend this guy or his boss aren't the stone cold scammers they are.
Bush ****ed up in that going after terrorists his actions inadvertently encompassed some innocents.
The current joker in chief ****ed up in that going after the general populace his actions inadvertently encompassed some terrorists.
Your interpretation of that video and holder by extension is wrong on so many levels it's literally hard to quantify.
As for needing to bring up previous administrations transgressions to discuss those in this one is retarded at best.
That's equivalent to having to talk about how screwed up Ford's engine is to be able to explain how screwed up Chevy's engine is.
ForTehNguyen
03-19-12, 09:08
Yup he really wants to teach gang bangers the responsible use of guns :rolleyes:
http://reason.com/blog/2012/03/19/eric-holder-in-1995-we-really-need-to-br
Eric Holder in 1995: We "really need to brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way."
Nick Gillespie | March 19, 2012
Breitbart.tv has dug up 1995 C-SPAN footage of Attorney General Eric Holder, then a U.S. attorney, talking about strategies to reduce gun-related violence. The headline of the piece, "Holder 1995: We must 'brainwash' people on guns," underscores the gotcha dimension of Breitbart's scoop. Here's the Holder quote, which comes after he urges a media campaign, akin to the one focused on smoking, that would make guns and gun violence uncool (really):
"We just have to be repetitive about this. It's not enough to have a catchy ad on a Monday and then only do it every Monday. We have to do this every day of the week and just really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way."
Breitbart.tv's Joel Pollak further notes that
Despite strict gun control efforts, Washington, DC was and remains one of the nation's most dangerous cities for gun violence, though crime has abated somewhat since the 1990s.
This release is part of the Breitbart empire's "vetting" process of the Obama administration - what they consider a belated attempt to reveal to the American people the causes and beliefs of a crew they feel got a free pass in 2008.
What I find most interesting about this clip is the simplicity of Holder's conception that media or fantasy violence creates the real thing. This was a stock issue not just of the Clinton administration but of GOP congressional leaders as well, as readers of Reason will well remember. Holder would eventually be appointed as a deputy to Attorney General Janet Reno, whose ardent belief in threatening censorship to Hollywood types and videogame makers shouldn't be quickly forgotten. Despite the utter lack of relevant data, we wasted way too much time in the 1990s debating whether certain forms of expression should be restricted to comply with the aesthetic tastes of Washington's power elite.
To me, it's less important that Holder said what he said in 1995. However misguided he was, he was swimming with the tide. That sort of uncritical groupthink isn't what you look for in an attorney general, but let's let that slide for now.
The real question is what does he think NOW about the relationship between violence in movies and videogames and the real world? Movies, TV, music, games - all of these things have gotten more explicit over the past 40 years (at least) and yet violent crime rates have declined at rates that "baffle experts" (as the NY Times puts it). Have Holder's views changed at all on the topic?
And what does Eric Holder think about gun control policy too? Since 1995, gun laws of all sorts have been liberalized throughout the country, always against the wishes of gun-control boosters. How does Holder square his beliefs in the mid-1990s with reality since then? Sadly, I think we know the answer at least with regard to private ownership of guns.
Holder may not be in the habit of answering questions, especially in front on Congress, but that shouldn't stop us from asking them.
Hat tip: Instapundit, who knows a thing or two about guns.
Oh?
I could bring up far worse things that the Bush regime supported, yet no one would care....
My point is simply that this mindless hatred of the current system is ridiculous. Unless you are willing to bring up some other issues (such as the PATRIOT Act, extraordinary rendition, Iran-Contra, and other important issues that were brought to us, or encouraged by Republican administrations) you have no business screaming about this current administration.
It is time that we dealt with some real issues, rather than these make-believe issues that are spoon-fed to the population by right or left wing media moguls that make money by stirring up the populace over these supposed issues...
Iran-Contra? Seriously? That is certainly relevant now, what, almost 30 years later. That is a "real issue" that we need to deal with? FFS. This generalization that everyone here complaining about anything related to Obama must be a intellectually dishonest GOP cheerleader is BS.
And to montanadave's point that you echoed, the notion that what Holder said isn't about trying to create a widespread shift in the view of the entire population of this country about guns, which would logically begin with that segment of the population that is still making its collective mind up about things, seems willfully ignorant to me.
I'd venture that in Great Britain, public opinion is not too favorable regarding private gun ownership, and as time marches on that trend will continue. Are you guys really going to sit here and tell me that Holder doesn't want to see the same thing here and that that isn't what he was talking about in this speech?
montanadave
03-19-12, 11:21
For ****'s sake, you guys have your panties bunched up over a video clip that's SEVENTEEN years old! There have been two SCOTUS decisions in the past five years strengthening private gun rights. Gun sales are at an all time high. How well do you think the message is working?
Somebody listens to this shit and starts singing the praises of Joe McCarthy? WTF?
And I'm the one that's out to lunch. :rolleyes:
DeltaSierra
03-19-12, 11:21
Iran-Contra? Seriously? That is certainly relevant now, what, almost 30 years later. That is a "real issue" that we need to deal with?
Oh, you're right...
There's no problem with US officials illegally running guns to murderous gangs in Central America...
You just proved my point for me - thanks!
Somebody listens to this shit and starts singing the praises of Joe McCarthy? WTF?
And I'm the one that's out to lunch. :rolleyes:
:laugh:
Oh, you're right...
There's no problem with US officials illegally running guns to murderous gangs in Central America...
You just proved my point for me - thanks!
:rolleyes:
Fast & Furious. Yeah, I get it. But it seems like you are suggesting that for people to say anything about Obama they also need to put in a disclaimer underneath saying "Yes, I was also against x action by these previous Republican administrations" in order to be able to post that opinion.
But hey, I'll play ball. On the topic of this thread, I will acknowledge that I am opposed to Holder's stance, and I likewise will stand against Republican Richard Nixon's statement that "guns are an abomination". If I can dig up anti-gun statements from Herbert Hoover or maybe William H. Taft that I can disavow, I'll edit my post to include them.
For ****'s sake, you guys have your panties bunched up over a video clip that's SEVENTEEN years old! There have been two SCOTUS decisions in the past five years strengthening private gun rights. Gun sales are at an all time high. How well do you think the message is working?
Somebody listens to this shit and starts singing the praises of Joe McCarthy? WTF?
And I'm the one that's out to lunch. :rolleyes:
The clip's 17 years old but the speaker is currently "Top Cop."
For ****'s sake, you guys have your panties bunched up over a video clip that's SEVENTEEN years old! There have been two SCOTUS decisions in the past five years strengthening private gun rights. Gun sales are at an all time high. How well do you think the message is working?
Somebody listens to this shit and starts singing the praises of Joe McCarthy? WTF?
And I'm the one that's out to lunch. :rolleyes:
In this case, yes, you are.
Holder signed an Amicus brief in Heller vs. DC in favor of violatimng the rights of DC residents. That wasn't 17 years ago, it was 2008. As Deputy Attorney General, Holder was a strong supporter of restrictive gun control. He advocated federal licensing of handgun owners, a three day waiting period on handgun sales, rationing handgun sales to no more than one per month, banning possession of handguns and so-called "assault weapons" (cosmetically incorrect guns) by anyone under age of 21, a gun show restriction bill that would have given the federal government the power to shut down all gun shows, national gun registration, and mandatory prison sentences for trivial offenses (e.g., giving your son an heirloom handgun for Christmas, if he were two weeks shy of his 21st birthday).
Even a fool would recognize that Holder wields considerable power as AG, and that he would in fact use his position in any effort to restrict gun rights. Fast & Furious is a prime example. In this case, using every word he's ever spoken about guns, words he's never retracted or restated, are considerable evidence of his continuing personal agenda against the 2nd Amendment rights of Americans.
Your protestations are weak sauce. Go peddle your insulting BS somewhere else! :mad:
CarlosDJackal
03-19-12, 14:07
Oh?
I could bring up far worse things that the Bush regime supported, yet no one would care....
That argument is absolutely ignorant, downright idiotic, and has gotten tiresome. Could you please explain the relevance of ANY of the previous regimes has to the current regime? Should I also blame obama for jimmy carter's shortcomings?
I judge the current administration for what they have done or have not done (depending on how you want to look at it). I am judging the current POTUS and his cronies based ON THEIR PERFORMANCE ALONE. This is how it should be for any administration.
Pleas enlighten us how the shortcomings of previous Presidents bear any factor on how we should judge obama, holder, biden or what-have-you. :rolleyes:
montanadave
03-19-12, 14:25
In this case, yes, you are.
Holder signed an Amicus brief in Heller vs. DC in favor of violatimng the rights of DC residents. That wasn't 17 years ago, it was 2008. As Deputy Attorney General, Holder was a strong supporter of restrictive gun control. He advocated federal licensing of handgun owners, a three day waiting period on handgun sales, rationing handgun sales to no more than one per month, banning possession of handguns and so-called "assault weapons" (cosmetically incorrect guns) by anyone under age of 21, a gun show restriction bill that would have given the federal government the power to shut down all gun shows, national gun registration, and mandatory prison sentences for trivial offenses (e.g., giving your son an heirloom handgun for Christmas, if he were two weeks shy of his 21st birthday).
Even a fool would recognize that Holder wields considerable power as AG, and that he would in fact use his position in any effort to restrict gun rights. Fast & Furious is a prime example. In this case, using every word he's ever spoken about guns, words he's never retracted or restated, are considerable evidence of his continuing personal agenda against the 2nd Amendment rights of Americans.
Your protestations are weak sauce. Go peddle your insulting BS somewhere else! :mad:
You wanna rip Holder a new one for his current views or his actions as AG, have at it. You'll hear no protestations from me.
My objection was to some muckracker digging up a clip from almost twenty years ago and gleaning a couple of juicy quotes to grab a cheap headline and gin up some controversy. It's piss poor journalism.
Hang a guy for his current positions and actions, not something he said almost twenty years ago. People's attitudes and opinions evolve. Or don't, as the case may be. Let's stick to the here and now.
Doc Safari
03-19-12, 14:30
Whether the clip is 17 years old or 17 minutes old, it's helpful to revive it now and again to remind us that this country is in the grips of pure evil right now.
QuietShootr
03-19-12, 14:35
You wanna rip Holder a new one for his current views or his actions as AG, have at it. You'll hear no protestations from me.
My objection was to some muckracker digging up a clip from almost twenty years ago and gleaning a couple of juicy quotes to grab a cheap headline and gin up some controversy. It's piss poor journalism.
Hang a guy for his current positions and actions, not something he said almost twenty years ago. People's attitudes and opinions evolve. Or don't, as the case may be. Let's stick to the here and now.
Hey, great idea. Then I don't want to hear another damn word about Bush. Ever.
My objection was to some muckracker digging up a clip from almost twenty years ago and gleaning a couple of juicy quotes to grab a cheap headline and gin up some controversy. It's piss poor journalism.
You think he's changed since then?
montanadave
03-19-12, 14:40
Hey, great idea. Then I don't want to hear another damn word about Bush. Ever.
Does that include Jeb in Tampa come August? :haha:
You wanna rip Holder a new one for his current views or his actions as AG, have at it. You'll hear no protestations from me.
My objection was to some muckracker digging up a clip from almost twenty years ago and gleaning a couple of juicy quotes to grab a cheap headline and gin up some controversy. It's piss poor journalism.
Hang a guy for his current positions and actions, not something he said almost twenty years ago. People's attitudes and opinions evolve. Or don't, as the case may be. Let's stick to the here and now.
Objection overruled. Goes to establishing a pattern which is continuing and relevant. :)
Objection overruled. Goes to establishing a pattern which is continuing and relevant. :)
Winner!
I prefer to go commando. And I'll tell you why my nuts are in a bunch. Because Holder has been an antigun liberal piece of shit since as far back as it goes.
This video clip shows that his current actions weren't a mistake or misundestanding. It was a calculated attempt to sway public opinion and convice Congress to attack our right to bear arms. This should be pretty clear by now.
For ****'s sake, you guys have your panties bunched up over a video clip that's SEVENTEEN years old! There have been two SCOTUS decisions in the past five years strengthening private gun rights. Gun sales are at an all time high. How well do you think the message is working?
Somebody listens to this shit and starts singing the praises of Joe McCarthy? WTF?
And I'm the one that's out to lunch. :rolleyes:
montanadave
03-19-12, 15:13
Objection overruled. Goes to establishing a pattern which is continuing and relevant. :)
Touche! Well played, sir. :agree:
You didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night by any chance?
The problem is that Holder never called for gun safety, responsible ownership, or keeping kids out of gangs. Instead, he spoke of a global anti-gun message that focused on kids, but also targeted adults. Is it the worst thing that Holder has done? No, but it is yet another reason to vote ABO in November.
Exactly.
I'd say there was a big disconnect between the idea and his message. The idea that we can all probably agree with is the notion of keeping illegal guns out of the hand of kids - particularly kids in gangs. OK, no problem, I can live with that.
However, his message conveyed a negative connotation to all gun use. This was made clear when he did not in any way narrow his focus on illegal guns or praise organization that promote responsible gun ownership.
Then, he referenced "brainwashing" which is generally a term applied to totalitarian regimes; not a good idea when you are part of the government. This is especially damaging when you later become part of an administration that prides itself on regulating the private sector (i.e. Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, Fast and Furious, GM bailout over the shareholders, etc.).
DeltaSierra
03-19-12, 22:08
Pleas enlighten us how the shortcomings of previous Presidents bear any factor on how we should judge obama, holder, biden or what-have-you. :rolleyes:
Oh, maybe because history has had a direct affect on what is currently occurring?
Maybe because without Bush's PATRIOT Act, the groundwork would not have been laid for Obama to sign the NDAA... Simple, really...
I'd say there was a big disconnect between the idea and his message. The idea that we can all probably agree with is the notion of keeping illegal guns out of the hand of kids - particularly kids in gangs. OK, no problem, I can live with that.
However, his message conveyed a negative connotation to all gun use. This was made clear when he did not in any way narrow his focus on illegal guns or praise organization that promote responsible gun ownership.
Then, he referenced "brainwashing" which is generally a term applied to totalitarian regimes; not a good idea when you are part of the government. This is especially damaging when you later become part of an administration that prides itself on regulating the private sector (i.e. Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, Fast and Furious, GM bailout over the shareholders, etc.).
That pretty much covers everything.
Oh, maybe because history has had a direct affect on what is currently occurring?
Maybe because without Bush's PATRIOT Act, the groundwork would not have been laid for Obama to sign the NDAA... Simple, really...
Try focusing on the fact that Obama is the one who signed the reauthorization of the Patriot Act which laid the groundwork for NDAA, etc.
Democratic Senators are now requesting the Obama administration to disclose surveillance powers under the Patriot Act (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/03/senators-to-obama-disclose-surveillance-powers/1), saying citizens would be "stunned" to learn what the government says it can do.
Belmont31R
03-19-12, 23:10
Democratic Senators are now requesting the Obama administration to disclose surveillance powers under the Patriot Act (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/03/senators-to-obama-disclose-surveillance-powers/1), saying citizens would be "stunned" to learn what the government says it can do.
Technology is going to do away with any privacy we have left...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/%E2%80%9Cwe-are-far-turnkey-totalitarian-state-big-brother-goes-live-september-2013
Touche! Well played, sir. :agree:
You didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night by any chance?
Nah, I prefer Embassy Suites. Free booze and made to order breakfast! :D
montanadave, I'm normally in agreement with you on most things, but I have to differ here. The 'continual pattern of behavior' argument applies perfectly here. Holder has always been against civilian gun rights, and his words here mesh well with his actions in the Fast & Furious debacle. He's just trying to fabricate more evidence to support his unsupportable claims now.
And yes, it was 17 years ago... in the middle of the last big push against the 2nd Amendment. Clinton was in office, Waco & Ruby Ridge were fresh in the mind, 'militias' were the terrorists of the day, and we had just begun to suffer under the AWB. Holder was one of Clinton's point men on that project, and a longtime foe of gun rights. He was trying to capitalize on the seemingly boundless success in that area. He failed, but it's obvious now that he never gave up, he only changed tactics.
thopkins22
03-20-12, 11:16
Iraqgunz is on point here. This had/has absolutely dick to do with "kids in gangs" and everything to do with conditioning the American people to the idea that not only do they not need guns, but that quite frankly it's sick, weird, and possibly criminal for them to want them at all. It's worked on a lot of folks....
I remember vividly when the ATF was going door to door here in TX there were quite a few members who told them to quit whining how we had to stop the flow of guns into Mejico....
montanadave
03-20-12, 11:22
I agree with Lanesmith's Post #41 above and have hoisted the white flag of surrender on this one. It was never my intention to defend Eric Holder, only to suggest Breitbart's use of this particular piece of old video was unnecessarily inflammatory and sought to mischaracterize Holder's remarks on that specific occasion.
However, Holder's remarks, in the context of his long-standing, much broader anti-gun agenda, are sufficient to warrant condemnation by all seeking to preserve their constitutional rights and personal freedoms.
Moose-Knuckle
03-20-12, 16:52
The problem is that Holder never called for gun safety, responsible ownership, or keeping kids out of gangs. Instead, he spoke of a global anti-gun message that focused on kids, but also targeted adults.
This.
I prefer to go commando. And I'll tell you why my nuts are in a bunch. Because Holder has been an antigun liberal piece of shit since as far back as it goes.
This video clip shows that his current actions weren't a mistake or misundestanding. It was a calculated attempt to sway public opinion and convice Congress to attack our right to bear arms. This should be pretty clear by now.
And this.
I'd say there was a big disconnect between the idea and his message. The idea that we can all probably agree with is the notion of keeping illegal guns out of the hand of kids - particularly kids in gangs. OK, no problem, I can live with that.
However, his message conveyed a negative connotation to all gun use. This was made clear when he did not in any way narrow his focus on illegal guns or praise organization that promote responsible gun ownership.
Then, he referenced "brainwashing" which is generally a term applied to totalitarian regimes; not a good idea when you are part of the government. This is especially damaging when you later become part of an administration that prides itself on regulating the private sector (i.e. Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, Fast and Furious, GM bailout over the shareholders, etc.).
And again, this.
I'm no Republican apologist; both parties have done their best to bring about the destruction of our Republic. I swear some here have been drinking the Kool-Aid straight from the liberal tit.
Belmont31R
03-20-12, 17:22
Iraqgunz is on point here. This had/has absolutely dick to do with "kids in gangs" and everything to do with conditioning the American people to the idea that not only do they not need guns, but that quite frankly it's sick, weird, and possibly criminal for them to want them at all. It's worked on a lot of folks....
I remember vividly when the ATF was going door to door here in TX there were quite a few members who told them to quit whining how we had to stop the flow of guns into Mejico....
Thats how Europeans are. The idea of owning a gun for self defense and actually shooting someone in your house is crazy talk there. They'd probably think you had blood lust or something.
England has gotten so bad their Olympic competitors had to LEAVE THE COUNTRY to practice shooting sports. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/olympics_2012/4162498.stm
I think that has been the aim of anti gun pieces of shit like Holder, Brady, ect. Make the use of a firearm for self defense taboo, someone who wants to carry a gun is crazy and will become unhinged at any moment, the only reason someone would want to own an AR15 is because they spray bullets, ect. Just make it sound like gun owners are lunatics (gun nut's), WANTS to shoot someone, ect.
The difference is that in the US during our expansion west you basically had to own a gun. That never happened in Europe, and firearms quickly became controlled by the state due to their totalitarian monarchies requiring control over the people. Arms control has a LONG history in Europe even back when firearms never existed.
Now the liberal controllers there use psychiatric based attacks to keep people from from owning a gun for personal freedom much less protection against their governments. The Polizei might actually think twice before beating people if they were allowed to conceal carry.
I think the UK is already Airstrip 1 and four more years of the current regime will put us pretty close to Oceania. Even the "disputed territory" is almost correct!
So lets see he wants to brainwash people into thinking "guns are bad", and he also ships 10k weapons into mexico for the sinaloa cartel, all while blaming "gunshows" for the flow of weapons into mexico. Hmmmmm
It doesnt take a damn genius to figure out what the hell is going on for **** sake.
I can 100% guarantee that if the current admin. makes it through the next election (which they will) the president will go after all semi-auto weapons.
(and just for "deltasierra", i feel the same about Soetoro as i do/did about Bush)
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