View Full Version : free float
should I get a free float tube?
why or why not?
Your answer depends on what your doing with your AR... You gotta fill in some more blanks for anyone to give you a better answer.
I'm not a tgt shooter and I don't use an AR for Highpower and I don't bench-rest. All my rifles are down and dirty carbines that shoot minute of man out to 300 and I have ran either straight handguards or the KAC RAS.
I like shooting my guns more then I like working on them. If your looking to get a good free float to shoot off a bench on paper and then runs a $60 Leapers chinese scope and Wolf ammo, you just waisted you money on the free float.
Most shooters I know would gain little if any additional accuracy using a freefloat.
Ask your self the hard question. Do I shoot well enough to gain any edge with one? Are you gonna use high quality ammo? Just some thoughts.
Harv thanks for the info.
It pretty much tells me that I do not need a free float.
Maybe on a Varmint/Target rifle
UNLESS
If you are going to buy a SUREFIRE Light then maybe A DD Float/rail would be nice!
I try to KISSS at all times
The only add ons on my AR15 M4`s are a Eotech 551 and a Aimpoint 551
And thats because my eyes are getting old
I would save up for AMMO
Spare Parts Kits is nice also
Float rails are lighter, cheaper, simpler, more durable, dissipate heat better and work better with sights mounted on them.
No brainer.
From SethB
Float rails are lighter, cheaper, simpler, more durable, dissipate heat better and work better with sights mounted on them.
No brainer.
I would be interested to know how a free float tube is Simpler since it requires removing the FH and FSB and in some case the Barrel Nut and Delta Ring and requires the use of special tools.
And how they Dissipate heat better???
They are not a backward compatible system, and most don't require special tools. They have fewer total parts, and I think they are stronger. They also have fewer fitment issues. A URX, Larue or DD will fit on a crap gun, an RAS may not do so. I had that problem once.
As for the heat issue, fire three mags through an M4 with a DD rail and the same number of rounds through a clone with RAS. One will be too hot to touch. The other will give you third degree burns and rail pattern scarring. I'd rather draw the heat off. This is why I have a vert grip and no panels.
As for removing the FH and FSB. That isn't a big deal for a shop that is equipped to handle ARs, and you can buy them with the rail very easily as well.
I am a FF fan on any weapon simply for the reason that it keeps pressure off the barrel and helps the barrel cool down faster. I do not think free floating a chrome lined barrel helps all that much with accuracy.
C4
From SethB
They are not a backward compatible system, and most don't require special tools. They have fewer total parts, and I think they are stronger. They also have fewer fitment issues. A URX, Larue or DD will fit on a crap gun, an RAS may not do so. I had that problem once.
As for the heat issue, fire three mags through an M4 with a DD rail and the same number of rounds through a clone with RAS. One will be too hot to touch. The other will give you third degree burns and rail pattern scarring. I'd rather draw the heat off. This is why I have a vert grip and no panels.
As for removing the FH and FSB. That isn't a big deal for a shop that is equipped to handle ARs, and you can buy them with the rail very easily as well.
Your response still did not answer my question. if you need to take off the FH and the FSB and the barrel nut, then you do need special tools or a gunsmith.
As to the heat, You did not explain at all why one is better then the other, you made a comparison based on your experience dumping 3 mags thru.
As to Strength you give nothing tangible other then "You think"there stronger"
Did I miss anything??
The original Poster asked if he would benefit from a free float, in that context and based on what he is doing, he would not.
Putting a free float tube on a carbine that inherently shoots 4MOA or less on a 200 meter or less gun shooting MilSpec or less ammo is not something that anyone NEEDS and I don't believe it is a "No Brainer" based on what your saying.
Submariner
08-26-06, 18:27
My first free float upper was installed in '99 to turn an A2 into a DCM rifle. The idea was to relieve stress/torque on the barrrel from the sling. Added 1/4 minute NM sights, changable aperture and a skinny front sight post. Works great, I just lbroke my "yellow glasses".
Fast forward to 2003 and my first RAS. Great idea! Sell the M500's and spend beau coup bucks on Surefire lights and KAC VFG and panels. Problem: RAS's are in short supply. My crack dealer. oops, vendor, MSTN, suggests I try a Free Float RAS for the same price. He would even install the first two I bought for free. Free float barrels were, he said, where things were headed (and this was pre-LaRue).
I sent him 16" Colt LW barrels because my Colt M4 barrels had (and still have} permanently pinned Vortexes which would have cost money to install. (I'm cheap, like Harv.;) ) Wes suggested flat tops, too, since I had Elcans (sort of a proto-recon rifle, now with ACOG's). For the same price as a RAS, it works great for mounting a VFG and light. There were few, if any, quality alternatives then.
In both cases, even with standard Colt barrels (not the Lilja, Noeveske, Pac-Nor barrels of today), they shot better than I ever could. For me, it was a money issue. At no difference in cost, given my "mission requirements", a free-floated barrel was/is great. So is RAS. The SF M73 is probably just as good at a much lower price. Put the difference saved into good training.
Aside: At our first class with Pat Rogers that summer ('03), he pointed at the FF RAS on my son's carbine and asked, "What's that?" Now look where we are!
Considering that a float rail is cheaper, and that they aren't that hard to install A friend of mine showed me how years ago. He was sitting in an easy chair.
So there may be a place for a non float rail, but where? If you want to replace a barrel or gas tube, you'll need all the tools anyway.
As for the heat issue, that has been very well discussed.
Again, considering that there is no significant disadvantage (the URX II is cheaper to the mil than the RAS) what purpose is there to go out and buy one? I understand if you have them on hand. But why add another one to the collection?
Smith- now's not the time! ;)
The only reason I say this is your rifle was available with a free float from factory to save you the hassle.
It still is a good idea if you need one or even if you simply just want one. Most of us that have them don't really need them per se.
I'll throw my 2 cents in as a hunter/non tactical type. I can't grasp the full rail concept, I don't need 48"s of rail to mount a flashlight and a bipod. Then you have to add panels or a VG to be able to hold the handguard, so I've been looking at JP's FF handguard that allows you to put rails where you need them. It still acts as a heat sink and is ventilated to cool better but cost is half of most rails I've looked at.
Now my Colt HBAR is about as accurate as any gun I've ever seen with or without it's Hogue FF tube (it's more consistant but allowing the same hold, shoots the same group size floated or not). I added a PRI rail for a light and I don't shoot rapid fire with it so heat isn't a concern, if you do then get something ventilated.
I have an M4 and a light weight carbine both with factory handguards and a short rail for a light, they both seem to work just fine the way they are. I may FF the light weight but just because I want to. Anyway that's just my opinion for what it's worth.
I can't really think of a non railed float tube that I'd use. The whole point is to get the rails for VFG's, lights etc. I guess if I didn't need the rail I'd get the PRI. I don't like having "rails where you need them" because I think that system is too easy to break or make loose. Plus all of those systems tend to be heavier than a regular float rail, and more expensive.
"The whole point is to get the rails for VFG's, lights etc."
I was under the impression the whole point of a VFG was because of the rails. I guess it depends on how you look at it or what you do with it. As I said I'm a non tactical hunter, I just found that what works for CQB also makes a fine gun for calling coyotes.
Anyway, it doesn't matter much as I just read the assy instructions of the JP tube and it's out. I don't like the way it mounts so that leaves the PRI but I think I may try a DD on my light weight if I decide to float it. I've heard it's the smallest diameter and one of the lightest so maybe with ladder panels I might not need a VFG. Any input?
Well, the DD is thinner from side to side but taller than a Larue or similar. It feels better, subjectively. It is also extremely light.
"The whole point is to get the rails for VFG's, lights etc."
I was under the impression the whole point of a VFG was because of the rails. I guess it depends on how you look at it or what you do with it. As I said I'm a non tactical hunter, I just found that what works for CQB also makes a fine gun for calling coyotes.
Anyway, it doesn't matter much as I just read the assy instructions of the JP tube and it's out. I don't like the way it mounts so that leaves the PRI but I think I may try a DD on my light weight if I decide to float it. I've heard it's the smallest diameter and one of the lightest so maybe with ladder panels I might not need a VFG. Any input?
FF rails do a lot more than hold a VG. As I said earlier, they help with heat and take pressure off the barrel.
I like the DD or LT rail over the PRI.
C4
It's important to note that the DD is taller than the Larue, but the top is still level with a flattop upper. Basically the lower rail is lower.
The PRI has a place, I just don't have or want any such ARs. Were I to build an AR for hunting, that is what it would get.
John_Wayne777
08-28-06, 13:50
should I get a free float tube?
why or why not?
If you are looking for a general utility carbine, it isn't necessary. Even without the FF option, most carbines are far more capable than the people pulling their triggers.
It isn't a bad idea to have a free-floated barrel by any means, but isn't something that is critical for most folks.
Well, the DD is thinner from side to side but taller than a Larue or similar. It feels better, subjectively. It is also extremely light.
That is a misconception. It is not appreciably narrower, but is taller which makes it seem narrower.
It is definately lighter.
It certainly does look and feel narrower. I don't have one on hand at the moment.
When I had both I measured them and posted the dimensions on the other site. Having since been banned I am unable to retrieve the measurements.
Cool. Thanks.
Probably better not to go over there anyway.
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