View Full Version : "And you thought TSA was bad" or "If this doesn't freak you out..."
Gutshot John
03-20-12, 11:03
You will notice that this is Wired Magazine, hardly a source of alarmist, tin-foil hat conspiracy theories...
The NSA Is Building the Country’s Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say) (http://m.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/)
I haven't heard boo anywhere from anyone...
montanadave
03-20-12, 11:35
Do you suppose these guys will be able to straighten out some of the DOS-attack problems M4C has experienced to facilitate better data throughput for more optimal electronic surveillance? :haha:
VooDoo6Actual
03-20-12, 11:59
Operation Stellar Wind.
Gutshot John
03-20-12, 12:20
This goes well beyond stellar wind.
montanadave
03-20-12, 12:32
All kidding aside, this kind of stuff just blows my mind. As Belmont commented in another thread, personal privacy is virtually non-existent at this point.
Quote of the day (from the WIRED article linked above):
"Sitting in a restaurant not far from NSA headquarters, the place where he spent nearly 40 years of his life, Binney (a senior NSA crypto-mathematician largely responsible for automating the agency’s worldwide eavesdropping network) held his thumb and forefinger close together. 'We are, like, that far from a turnkey totalitarian state,' he says."
It all makes Orwell look like an optimist.
Belmont31R
03-20-12, 12:40
I haven't heard boo anywhere from anyone...
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1261704&postcount=46
Reagans Rascals
03-20-12, 13:10
sounds like "Woodlawn" in Live Free of Die Hard....
whats to keep these individuals from essentially stealing funds by way of hacking if they know all of the account numbers and access codes....
shit.. if I won the mega millions... and they were hurting for cash.. they could essentially just steal my account info and pin numbers and then just little by little take the money or anything they want for that matter.... they could hack into a celebrities computer and steal naked photos and then suddenly they miraculously end up online...
if this is a "covert" endeavor.... am I to understand there is absolutely no oversight?
just seems wrong on all fronts....
I've always been a big believer in if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.... but there are somethings that aren't about hiding for privacy's sake.... there are things that have to be private like Cokes recipe... the secret recipe for Bush's Baked beans that only that stupid dog knows... inside secrets to companies... my own banking information... personal healthcare information...
its bad enough employers can run a credit check now if they feel like it.... imagine if you went to join a church or buy a house and they could see the amputee porn site you visited last night or that nasty email you wrote to the shit bag that's been hitting on your girl... pharmacists can already deny you contraception if its against their own personal beliefs... wheres it end...
its the beginning of the end my friends...
Gutshot John
03-20-12, 13:16
Belmont forgive me if I don't keep current on all your posts especially when placed in irrelevant threads. The Wired article does predate the post which is what that page refers too. Invariably I prefer original sources and this does deserve its own thread.
The real problem here has to do with cracking AES encryption which is a whole other ball of string.
Belmont31R
03-20-12, 13:18
1984 is looking like a childrens novel.
The_War_Wagon
03-20-12, 13:26
Judgement Day is inevitable - all you did was delay it. :eek:
http://youtu.be/-NKqhqIN3Zc
Gutshot John
03-20-12, 13:43
A children' s novel or a prophecy.
Belmont31R
03-20-12, 13:44
A children' s novel or a prophecy.
I say childrens novel because we are going to be shooting well past that.
Belmont31R
03-20-12, 14:29
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120316/00101618123/senators-tell-obama-administration-to-reveal-its-secret-interpretation-patriot-act.shtml
Doc Safari
03-20-12, 14:37
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120316/00101618123/senators-tell-obama-administration-to-reveal-its-secret-interpretation-patriot-act.shtml
I see, so once they know where all the Tea Party members are, they can send a drone over them and...and....and....?
I start to wonder if we even ought to be talking about this shit.
I
I start to wonder if we even ought to be talking about this shit.
When you are scared to even talk about the government is when you know things have gone awry in the United States.
Very scary indeed. The former director said we are close to totalitarian state. This is what those historians from long ago claimed it would look like too.
Doc Safari
03-20-12, 15:19
When you are scared to even talk about the government is when you know things have gone awry in the United States.
Very scary indeed. The former director said we are close to totalitarian state. This is what those historians from long ago claimed it would look like too.
Agreed. But tell me I'm wrong. Please.
They already surf the social media sites looking for opposition. They want the names of all the local Tea Party members, how many children they have, what are their names and whatnot (this is what I've heard from several sources but not first hand information).
Add to that the executive order signed over the weekend giving the president the virtual ability to take over any aspect of the country he wants, and it begins to look like a chess board where the American people have fewer and fewer pieces positioned to do anything.
GeorgiaBoy
03-20-12, 16:26
If anybody wants a little peace of mind, look at it like this. The high and mighty government may look big and scary right now, but remember this:
- The government is outnumbered by 300 to 1 in terms of its employees vs. general public.
- There are over 90 million gun owners in the U.S., compared to only 1.5 million active service military members. (80 to 1)
The key thing to remember is that their "power" is figurative. The armed and populous people hold the TRUE power.
I say childrens novel because we are going to be shooting well past that.
Keep your powder dry and we'll ****ing see about that. I predict civil war within the decade.
If they just read that, good! Come ****ing get me you coward trash
eta: I visit this blog on a DAILY basis, and now this:
http://survivalblog.com/2012/03/important-message-from-jwr-the-fbis-cookie-caper-and-the-vpn-imperative.html
When you are scared to even talk about the government is when you know things have gone awry in the United States.
Very scary indeed. The former director said we are close to totalitarian state. This is what those historians from long ago claimed it would look like too.
Indeed.
What happens is it becomes more and more dangerous to exercise your rights, until many people chicken out. They don't announce an end to liberty over the nightly news. They just create an atmosphere of danger and fear around liberty until its stamped out of the masses. Then they'll deal with the few holdouts remaining.
platoonDaddy
03-20-12, 16:49
Visiting with my daughter, the front page of Wired Magazine had this story.
Dang, for sure bigBrother is HERE!
Doc Safari
03-20-12, 16:51
The key thing to remember is that their "power" is figurative. The armed and populous people hold the TRUE power.
Come ****ing get me you coward trash
No offense, gentlemen, but talk is cheap.
I predict civil war within the decade.
Have you ever really considered this actually happening? Most people are more worried about March Madness than their freedoms and will easily be convinced by the new world order types that the people who are against their "necessary measures" are the true enemy and must be destroyed.
I've been reading/hearing over the past few days that this administration has launched a probe into whether the Catholic church is a money laundering outfit, including maybe putting JP Morgan up to freezing their bank accounts.
Assuming that is true, then this administration is either incredibly powerful or incredibly stupid.
Clearly if they are not afraid of taking on one of the most powerful organizations on the planet, then they are not afraid of you or me.
It may already be too late. I just don't know.
If anybody wants a little peace of mind, look at it like this. The high and mighty government may look big and scary right now, but remember this:
- The government is outnumbered by 300 to 1 in terms of its employees vs. general public.
- There are over 90 million gun owners in the U.S., compared to only 1.5 million active service military members. (80 to 1)
The key thing to remember is that their "power" is figurative. The armed and populous people hold the TRUE power.
90,000,000 seems like alot, until you factor in shit like airpower and armor.
Have you ever really considered this actually happening?
Yes. I predict it happening relatively soon. Doesn't mean I want it. It will be utter hell.
90,000,000 seems like alot, until you factor in shit like airpower and armor.
They couldn't even handle Iraq and Afghanistan with all their armor and airpower (not to demean the troops either). The USA is a LOT bigger than either of those two places.
Armor and airpower are great when you have a small place you are subduing that also has armor and airpower.
--
This place is just right down the street from me. Probably 20 min drive.
--
Moose-Knuckle
03-20-12, 17:23
Read my sig line.
They couldn't even handle Iraq and Afghanistan with all their armor and airpower (not to demean the troops either). The USA is a LOT bigger than either of those two places.
Armor and airpower are great when you have a small place you are subduing that also has armor and airpower.
--
I understand your point but, I have to point out that both of those populations have been exposed to violence for centuries and are predisposed to fight & resist. Your average American is so damned tuned out & buried in Facebook that I fear an actual show of force would find many gladly going back inside to hide out of fear.
As my Father, a Korean veteran, used to say in reference to modern culture "God help us, we are raising entire generations of pussies".
I understand your point but, I have to point out that both of those populations have been exposed to violence for centuries and are predisposed to fight & resist. Your average American is so damned tuned out & buried in Facebook that I fear an actual show of force would find many gladly going back inside to hide out of fear.
As my Father, a Korean veteran, used to say in reference to modern culture "God help us, we are raising entire generations of pussies".
The percentage of people in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting is quite small.
The percentage of people actively resisting and even passively resisting the British in the American Revolution was actually very small.
You missed my point. The USA is really big and there is no where near enough "armor and airpower" to cover even a small amount of it.
And you would probably see that same small percentage of people resisting.
ETA: this is all hypothetical of course. I am not advocating any such action.
-
Belmont31R
03-20-12, 17:35
They couldn't even handle Iraq and Afghanistan with all their armor and airpower (not to demean the troops either). The USA is a LOT bigger than either of those two places.
Armor and airpower are great when you have a small place you are subduing that also has armor and airpower.
--
Iraq had shit tons of military arms cached all over the place. During the invasion military supplies were looted like crazy. They had access to HE by the truck load, belt feds, rockets, and were also getting supplies in from neighboring countries. A lot of hardcore fighters were not even Iraqis. Lots of Chechens with years of war experience and living in harsh conditions with a religion that allows them to believe they are going to be screwing virgins all day in the after life.
Far different than a nation full of bolt action deer guns and bird hunting shotguns that get used maybe once or twice a year with a populace that has been conditioned to sit in front of a TV for hours everyday eating fried chicken by the bucket.
It would take something extraordinary for the average American to actually put their neck on the line against the government. Not fringe people but the average dude who lives in the suburbs, makes 80k a year, 4-5 bedroom house, couple newer cars, 2-4 kids, wife ect.
The_War_Wagon
03-20-12, 17:37
Yes. I predict it happening relatively soon. Doesn't mean I want it. It will be utter hell.
Think of Mel Gibson's speech in the SC Senate at the beginning of "The Patriot." The more things CHANGE...
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/videoclips/videomoviespeechthepatriot.wmv
Whoever predicted civil uprisings within the decade, I'll see you and raise - I predict within 3 years - probably less than 2. :(
Iraq had shit tons of military arms cached all over the place. During the invasion military supplies were looted like crazy. They had access to HE by the truck load, belt feds, rockets, and were also getting supplies in from neighboring countries. A lot of hardcore fighters were not even Iraqis. Lots of Chechens with years of war experience and living in harsh conditions with a religion that allows them to believe they are going to be screwing virgins all day in the after life.
Far different than a nation full of bolt action deer guns and bird hunting shotguns that get used maybe once or twice a year with a populace that has been conditioned to sit in front of a TV for hours everyday eating fried chicken by the bucket.
It would take something extraordinary for the average American to actually put their neck on the line against the government. Not fringe people but the average dude who lives in the suburbs, makes 80k a year, 4-5 bedroom house, couple newer cars, 2-4 kids, wife ect.
Exactly. I think the amount of people that would stand & fight in a lopsided proposition like that would be frighteningly small.
Gutshot John
03-20-12, 17:57
Add to that the executive order signed over the weekend giving the president the virtual ability to take over any aspect of the country he wants, and it begins to look like a chess board where the American people have fewer and fewer pieces positioned to do anything.
Which EO is that? The power of the President to take over production in time of war was granted by the Defense Production Act of 1950 during the Korean War. Let's not pretend that the EO gives the President to simply take over whatever he wants, whenever he wants to do so. The EO in question simply lays out how the DPA is implemented.
If anybody wants a little peace of mind, look at it like this. The high and mighty government may look big and scary right now, but remember this:
- The government is outnumbered by 300 to 1 in terms of its employees vs. general public.
- There are over 90 million gun owners in the U.S., compared to only 1.5 million active service military members. (80 to 1)
The key thing to remember is that their "power" is figurative. The armed and populous people hold the TRUE power.
I whisk I could be as optimistic as you are, but the sad fact of life is that raw numbers for both sides are meaningless. There will be a good number of civil servants who "desert" and uphold their paths. Along the same lines there will be countless NRA members with cold dead hands stickers becoming rats.
The population of the USA hasn't had control of anything aside from their bowel movements for a long time. The vast majority just go along with the flow, but have no clue where the water is coming from or where it's going.
Afghanistan and Vietnam references are not applicable to the USA, just as large scale maneuver warfare wasn't applicable to Vietnam. The US population is a bunch of pussies who wouldn't know how to survive for more than a few days if cut off from food, water, electricity, medicines... All of which would happen in the event the government were backed into a corner. We are a "modern" society that can be controlled very easily via the resources it consumes and has become addicted to. The number of people who would turn on any "rebels" so they could get more rations of fuel or asthma meds for their kids would be immense. Do you really think that the Stassi informants were all hard core Communists. Most were people who wanted something or in a lot of cases needed something to keep their families safe. Couple that with an inability to see last their noses and you can see the results. Look at American society. Short term vision is the ONLY dominant trait. I'll run up monster debt to have my doohickey. Hooked on Lipitor, Prozac, Advair and God knows what. We are ripe for the picking.
When this turns south those few of us who can see past tomorrow will be out numbered, spread out over VAST terrain and unable to communicate. Most importantly surrounded by people who would hand us and our families over to the government without hesitation. Not a good tactical situation. Not 100% untenable but pretty damned bad. Our founding fathers had the advantage that those who didn't join the revolution just stayed out for the most part cause the Brits didn't have as much leverage over them as our government does now.
What the hell do you guys think NSA is doing right now at Ft Meade? This is just a newer facility in a more secure/defensible location.
If anybody wants a little peace of mind, look at it like this. The high and mighty government may look big and scary right now, but remember this:
- The government is outnumbered by 300 to 1 in terms of its employees vs. general public.
- There are over 90 million gun owners in the U.S., compared to only 1.5 million active service military members. (80 to 1)
The key thing to remember is that their "power" is figurative. The armed and populous people hold the TRUE power.
Simply, no.
I used to buy that too. I don't anymore, (for many and varied reasons that would take to long to write out).
Basically, if this was still seventeen hundred and some-odd, yeah, of course.It's not. Things are a lot different now. Not only from a technological standpoint, but a mental one.
If anyone thinks differently, I dare you to throw the first stone and see what happens.
A guy I know is one of those "they ain't taking my guns" folk (and don't get me wrong- I wholeheartedly agree with that principal).
The guy thinks if the "SHTF" he's going to grab his guns and gear and go hide out in the woods and conduct GW or somesuch.
I pity the fool. He makes a lot of sense in other things, but it seems a lot of people have a great ability to tune out reality in favor of fantasy.
Indeed.
What happens is it becomes more and more dangerous to exercise your rights, until many people chicken out. They don't announce an end to liberty over the nightly news. They just create an atmosphere of danger and fear around liberty until its stamped out of the masses. Then they'll deal with the few holdouts remaining.
I understand your point but, I have to point out that both of those populations have been exposed to violence for centuries and are predisposed to fight & resist. Your average American is so damned tuned out & buried in Facebook that I fear a [simple] show of force would find many gladly going back inside to hide out of fear.
As my Father, a Korean veteran, used to say in reference to modern culture "God help us, we are raising entire generations of pussies".
Yes.
We will have a plethora of people posting their bra color or wearing cheesy bracelets to "raise awareness" of the growing tyranny.:rolleyes:
Who's "watching the watchers" anymore? Seriously?
Gutshot John
03-20-12, 18:17
I have a big problem with this facility, but let's not go off on irrelevant tangents. I really wanted this to be an intelligent discussion and not macho posturing and associated stupidity.
When people start talking about Civil War and other bits of stupidity, it discredits very real opposition to the idea by dismissing anyone who disagrees as paranoid tin-foil hat types...but if enough "normal" people are aware and are upset by this (and yes I mean liberals who were outraged by the Bush Administration) then this becomes very problematic for the powers that be.
When this turns south those few of us who can see past tomorrow will be out numbered, spread out over VAST terrain and unable to communicate.
Well then maybe we should all try to move to a similar region of the continent. How about Colorado?
(I'm only half joking. I think choosing a region of the u.s. for liberty lovers to settle into is a sound idea. We all know that a systemic failure is bound to happen. Wouldn't you rather be around like minds?)
America is already under a state of martial law, but many have been conditioned to accept it because the degree to which it has been implemented has not yet reached its maximum. You don’t have to witness a Waco siege every day with tanks and the government killing citizens to be under a state of martial law.
- We already have the executive branch claiming the power to have Americans abducted and imprisoned without trial under the NDAA.
- We already have the executive branch claiming the power to assassinate American citizens with no legal process whatsoever.
- We already have checkpoints manned by TSA goons as well as other militarized forces spreading across America.
- We already have the Pentagon claiming it doesn’t have to even recognize Congress to launch wars and that the only superior body it has to answer to is the United Nations.
- We already have the Department of Defense characterizing protest as “low level terrorism” while the federal government is busy labeling banal activities and behavior as indicative of terrorism.
Those five things alone illustrate beyond any conceivable doubt that America is already under a degree of martial law.
Go here (http://www.prisonplanet.com/obama-executive-order-paves-the-way-for-nationalization-of-economy.html) for remainder of article and to follow links to above info.
Reagans Rascals
03-20-12, 19:25
The percentage of people in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting is quite small.
The percentage of people actively resisting and even passively resisting the British in the American Revolution was actually very small.
You missed my point. The USA is really big and there is no where near enough "armor and airpower" to cover even a small amount of it.
And you would probably see that same small percentage of people resisting.
ETA: this is all hypothetical of course. I am not advocating any such action.
-
they won't try and muscle us into submission within the general population.... they will strategically use those 1.5 million service members to seize and control vital resources such as electrical power plants, highways, airports, water supplies, emergency services, things of that nature..... the average unprepared citizen will be up shit creek in a toilet paper canoe if the Federal Government left them in a Katrina type situation where their only hope is to turn to them.....
hypothetical predictions....
there may be 90 million gun owners... but I highly doubt there are more than 1% of those gun owners who are completely capable of self-sufficiency and living completely off-grid, in the woods without any type of logistical supply chain.....
Red Dawn is a great movie... but its not a realistic mindset to view our public as being capable of living without the things they take for granted every day such as running water, microwaves, tv dinners, and light switches...... shit over 50% of our population is fat as shit and couldn't walk a mile in 12 minutes let alone run one....
Moose-Knuckle
03-20-12, 19:26
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/frog_boiling.jpg
DHS considers yawning and goose bumps suspicious behavior (http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/images/march2012/dhs_doc.pdf).
Reagans Rascals
03-20-12, 19:31
DHS considers yawning and goose bumps suspicious behavior (http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/images/march2012/dhs_doc.pdf).
DHS can eat my ass with a spork
those are the same ones warning to be on the lookout for those purchasing "night flashlights".......
DHS can eat my ass with a spork
those are the same ones warning to be on the lookout for those purchasing "night flashlights".......
I've only been purchasing day flashlights so I should be ok.
GeorgiaBoy
03-20-12, 22:10
Of course, as you read this thread, your blood begins to boil and you really become worried about our country.
As soon as you get off this forum, and get back to daily life, you won't even think about it again until you get back on.
Why? Because you are not being directly affected by anything the government is supposedly doing, at least right now. No one is trying to take your guns away, the FBI isn't knocking on your door to question the suspicious porn sites you've been visiting, you aren't being arrested and detained for several days every time you get a speeding ticket, ect.
For the most part, as long as our lives aren't directly affected, what the government does it mostly out of our hands and out of mind. This country might not be headed in a great direction, but right now you are still living on one of the best countries on earth. I say to just **** it and enjoy life while it lasts. Life is too short to constantly be worried about the government and our world. If push comes to shove, try to do something about it. But until then, I just let it be. There are more important things.
Life is too short to worry. You're the good guy, the government cronies aren't. Be proud of that.
Yes, its not on our doorsteps (that we know of) just yet. Of course, once it gets that bad, it'll be too late.
They don't spend billions on domestic spy centers out of boredom. They don't pass NDAA-type laws just in case. They don't attempt to pass Internet kill switch authority because of copyright infringement. Etc X 1000.
All these actions taken are for a reason and in furtherance of an end goal. Any guesses on what that goal is? I know what it isn't; protection of life, liberty, and property of citizens.
Google "Normalcy Bias"
When they came for "x" I said nothing cause I wasn't "x" .
When they came for "y" I said nothing cause I had nothing to hide.
When they came for "z" I said nothing cause I didnt want to rock the boat and I wasn't "z"
When they came for me there was no one left to say anything.
Should we be pulling our hair out about things like these... DAMN RIGHT!! Now is the time to worry and try to do something about it. If people took the time to stay tuned to their environment instead of checking out and not worrying about stuff, they would have a better chance of changing things before they get out of hand.
This country pretty much checked out after WW2 using the excuse that they were tired of fighting, unless it impacted their immediate lives. Worked for a few years, but that lack of concern for the big picture was taken advantage of. We need to be concerned for our country and act to change its path as soon as possible. Waiting for things to fester till the last possible moment is not a good plan of action IMO.
The_War_Wagon
03-20-12, 23:58
...but if enough "normal" people are aware and are upset by this (and yes I mean liberals who were outraged by the Bush Administration) then this becomes very problematic for the powers that be.
I'll bite.
So the citizenry become, "aware," and, "upset:" how - precisely - does that make it "problematic" for the powers that be? :confused:
Haven't we been in a nominally decent mode of "aware" and "upset" since the '60's, save perhaps, the Reagan years? TPTB don't exactly seem to be quaking in their boots over it.
Shall everyone move back into BNY Mellon Park, crap on everything, & draw rats? That REALLLLLLLY seemed to make Pittsburgh acquiesce to the "aware" and "upset" OWS'ers, to become a socialist utopia. :rolleyes:
How, exactly, does one "worry," TPTB. I'm dying to know the answer to this one.
Gutshot John
03-21-12, 00:25
Bite? I was just asking people to think a bit. Do you think this would occur if 100 million letters/emails/phone calls flooded the Capitol expressing outrage?
Were you even aware of this before this thread?
Have any of you contacted anyone? Your congressman? Senators? Anyone?
Or do you (the royal you) simply rant and rave on internet forums?
Something to think about but you're right, judging by the responses to this thread, I've probably wasted my time posting this here. People are far too distracted by an idiotic election, the TSA and the unfortunate death of some teenager in Florida.
The dogs bark...and the caravan rolls on.
How, exactly, does one "worry," TPTB. I'm dying to know the answer to this one.
+1
There's got to be a better way than the method the characters in "Enemies Foreign and Domestic" used.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." - Claire Wolfe
Have any of you contacted anyone? Your congressman? Senators? Anyone?
Because they give a shit, right? They got 1000 vs. 1 phone calls against the TARP bailouts on record. And still voted for it.
They don't care. If they get voted out of office, there's usually a nice spot on some companies board for them, or a giant insider trading portfolio, or a bank account full of kick back money. Of course none of it is prosecutable because they lawyer up and no DA in the country has the balls to indict them. And even if we did get a conviction, the executive branch has filled the circuit courts with radicals and cronies and insiders.
Moose-Knuckle
03-21-12, 01:31
Here is liberal Democrat who is starting to pull his head out of his ass and see the light of day. . .
Could Peacetime Martial Law Be Near?
As a longtime supporter of the president, I've been reluctant to jump to conclusions, but the general tide of recent legislation and this order give me reason for concern about the intentions of this administration.
Do these and other line items signal that America is on the verge of another war -- and will that war be with another nation or on U.S. citizens?
http://news.yahoo.com/could-peacetime-martial-law-near-221900976.html
Here is liberal Democrat who is starting to pull his head out of his ass and see the light of day. . .
Could Peacetime Martial Law Be Near?
http://news.yahoo.com/could-peacetime-martial-law-near-221900976.html
Damn. :eek:
montanadave
03-21-12, 06:40
What "peacetime"?
We've been engaged in the GWOT for the over 11 years. With no end in sight. And plenty of folks are beating the drums to expand that war into Iran. And Syria to boot.
A state of perpetual war. And the NSA sucking up, storing, and analyzing every piece of personal data on every single citizen. And the list goes on.
George Washington: The Father of our Country
George Orwell: The Seer of our Nation.
Gutshot John
03-21-12, 07:32
Because they give a shit, right? They got 1000 vs. 1 phone calls against the TARP bailouts on record. And still voted for it.
So I take it you didn't.
You'll sit here and bitch on an internet forum, but you won't take a few minutes to ACTUALLY TAKE A REAL STAND.
As your 1000:1 ratio...do you have any indication of that? Sure if they only get 100,000 phone calls...then they assume people aren't paying attention...if they get 100,000,000...they'll pay attention.
My point here was to get people to actually do something concrete. I see now that I've only created an echo chamber for people to bitch and not actually do anything...exactly as the powers that be hope. 'Let them vent, they won't actually do anything.'
Pure chickenshit and in the end you have no one but yourself to blame.
The_War_Wagon
03-21-12, 07:50
Bite? I was just asking people to think a bit. Do you think this would occur if 100 million letters/emails/phone calls flooded the Capitol expressing outrage?
Happens every day. People outraged that cheese isn't free anymore. People outraged because college isn't free. People outraged that all cars don't run on unicorn farts yet. PLENTY of outrage gets expressed all the time, the majority of which, does not comport in any way, shape, or form, with what the founders intended for our country to be. But hey - the gummint loves you buying up their $.44 stamps & keeping the USPS pension flush. That, and I'm sure they have plenty of those big green & yellow paper recyclers behind the Capitol building, just like my church does!
Were you even aware of this before this thread?
Outrage? Letter writing? Or CONgress? Yeah - I've been aware of them for a few decades now.
Have any of you contacted anyone? Your congressman? Senators? Anyone?
Yep. For a few decades now. I've also been a local & state delegate at political conventions since 1988, and I've contributed to campaigns and causes I support. As you can see, my contributions alone have shifted the entire direction of the nation, away from godless socialism, to... uhmmm... nevermind...
Or do you (the royal you) simply rant and rave on internet forums?
I'm Black Irish. Family was into fishing in County Galway for centuries before coming to America, to be dirt farmers, in 1704. :D No royalty in my heritage. And weren't you the one encouraging me to rant above? Or am I ONLY allowed to rant at gummint?
Something to think about but you're right, judging by the responses to this thread, I've probably wasted my time posting this here. People are far too distracted by an idiotic election, the TSA and the unfortunate death of some teenager in Florida.
I rather admire your faith in fellow man. I don't SHARE it, but I have other solaces. And I agree, that we rant and rave at gummint, so long as we can. I'm naturally a pessimist though. I DON'T see that improving with THIS election, or ANY election, in MY lifetime, and like a LOT of other not un-reasonable people, I prepare in the event of, "other." It seems rather odd, that given the gist of this website, YOU would find that problematic. :confused:
The dogs bark...and the caravan rolls on.
I think that's more true, than YOU realize...
Belmont31R
03-21-12, 08:30
So I take it you didn't.
You'll sit here and bitch on an internet forum, but you won't take a few minutes to ACTUALLY TAKE A REAL STAND.
As your 1000:1 ratio...do you have any indication of that? Sure if they only get 100,000 phone calls...then they assume people aren't paying attention...if they get 100,000,000...they'll pay attention.
My point here was to get people to actually do something concrete. I see now that I've only created an echo chamber for people to bitch and not actually do anything...exactly as the powers that be hope. 'Let them vent, they won't actually do anything.'
Pure chickenshit and in the end you have no one but yourself to blame.
The switches on Capitol Hill were shut down because so many people called.
Like it or not what the people think or how many people call is a small part of the equation. Most of these decisions are made behind closed doors with a few select people in leadership positions. The rest vote with the leadership the vast majority of the time.
TARP was going to pass no matter what. They were running (literally) that bill around in person to get it signed.
For months every major pollster showed a majority of Americans were against ObamaCare. That got passed.
While I agree we do need to be contacting our reps, and I do (1-4x a month), Im not going to get lulled into the illusion that calling, writing or getting out on the streets and protesting is going to change anything.
Doc Safari
03-21-12, 08:55
Bite? I was just asking people to think a bit. Do you think this would occur if 100 million letters/emails/phone calls flooded the Capitol expressing outrage?
I believe we have reached a point where the elected officials are so arrogant that they no longer fear retaliation at the ballot box, nor do they consider our needs and wants when passing legislation for their own benefit and to keep themselves in power.
That is the point where we lost our country. The Health Care law proves it.
Gutshot John
03-21-12, 08:59
I hate to break it to you...the phone isn't the only way to reach your representatives.
If you're not willing to make the effort to do something small like calling or writing them, I'm skeptical that you'll do anything more.
If you're content to wait around for Ron Paul on a white horse to come and save you...well than you're equally delusional.
People get the government they deserve and for all the talk about liberty...I see very little in the way of effort here...only a lot of bullshit excuses.
Belmont31R
03-21-12, 09:24
I hate to break it to you...the phone isn't the only way to reach your representatives.
If you're not willing to make the effort to do something small like calling or writing them, I'm skeptical that you'll do anything more.
If you're content to wait around for Ron Paul on a white horse to come and save you...well than you're equally delusional.
People get the government they deserve and for all the talk about liberty...I see very little in the way of effort here...only a lot of bullshit excuses.
We get the government the majority votes in.
davidjinks
03-21-12, 09:26
You talk a good talk. But what have YOU done? You point a finger and exclaim how "people" should be doing more. Writing and calling is about the most people can do. I've personally requested meetings with the governor of PA and my senators, all have been turned down. A point gets reached when letters and phone calls stop being acknowledged. So, when that happens, what do you suggest people do?
I also find it entertaining to read what you post in regards to this, seeing as you have a member of the socialist party/ACLU in your signature line.
I hate to break it to you...the phone isn't the only way to reach your representatives.
If you're not willing to make the effort to do something small like calling or writing them, I'm skeptical that you'll do anything more.
If you're content to wait around for Ron Paul on a white horse to come and save you...well than you're equally delusional.
People get the government they deserve and for all the talk about liberty...I see very little in the way of effort here...only a lot of bullshit excuses.
In regards to the thread as a whole...
What can be done to stop this, to reverse this, to prevent this?
My honest opinion is, no one in the .gov gives a shit less what the common folk thinks. If they did, we wouldn't be where we're at right now.
Doc Safari
03-21-12, 09:31
Come on, people. I've called Congressmen's offices only to be met with a cold shoulder for being against the reps' position on something. I'm talking about my own freaking party (former party, that is).
We've all watched the town hall meetings where it was obvious the elected rep had an attitude.
I don't know what the solution is, but I think we have moved beyond the "redress of grievances" fantasy.
davidjinks
03-21-12, 09:40
That was exactly my point...
There's a point where letters and phone calls stop being answered. After that, what's the next step?
Come on, people. I've called Congressmen's offices only to be met with a cold shoulder for being against the reps' position on something. I'm talking about my own freaking party (former party, that is).
We've all watched the town hall meetings where it was obvious the elected rep had an attitude.
I don't know what the solution is, but I think we have moved beyond the "redress of grievances" fantasy.
VooDoo6Actual
03-21-12, 09:53
Davidjinks writes:
My honest opinion is, no one in the .gov gives a shit less what the common folk thinks. If they did, we wouldn't be where we're at right now.
This is straightforward, simplistic elegance, intellectually honest, insightful & painfully correct.
Evidenced by the fact that while all/most/many Senators/Congressman/Fed Agents take an oath to uphold the constitution & it's tenants, it is evident that by their actions they choose to ignore it, obfuscate/prevaricate it's meaning/interpretations by scemantics or be Sheep led by their supervisor's/leader's agenda.
Thereto literally is a current litany of unconstitutional laws, enactments, actions, codes, legislations etc. that are unconstitutional & yet only a small percentage/handful have resigned or left.
That's a clue. The fact that it continues only speaks to the evidence of poor moral judgment, ehtics & passive corruption & tacit approval.
Hitler had plenty of people willing to help him out. He didn't do it alone. On our current trajectory/azimuth if it continues it's easy to see where we will be.....
There is a righteous 14th century Samurai/Zen axiom/belief that still holds true imo to this day & will in eternity for me.....
"When words & actions are divergent, look to the action(s) for it is the truth..."
Oh BTW, here's a dandy one for ya:
FEMA CORPS
http://www.fema.gov/about/employees/femacorps.shtm
Gutshot John
03-21-12, 10:35
Really EVERY time I've ever called a congressman's or senator's office and identified myself as a constituent I've been treated politely, they've registered my concerns and more often than not I get a reply spelling out the rep's position on the issue along with an explanation.
Even still if you arent willing to make even that modest effort you are no different than the "sheep" for whom you have so much contempt.
Have any of you bothered to even visit your rep's office, local or in DC?
Please less talk more rock...or shut the hell up.
John, I get what you are saying and I agree with you.
But the problem you aren't addressing or acknowledging is that many people here already have done these things. Called, wrote, and visited.
TARP / Obamacare was rammed down out collective throats very recently, and the bad taste hasn't left yet. MANY people, more so that I can recall for any other issue spoke, wrote, and called against it. To no avail.
There are really two types of people in America. Those who will do the things you suggest and those who will complain and bitch but do nothing. The powers that be have long realized that they can ignore the second group. They have recently figured out that they can ignore the first group as well.
So what do we do now?
Gutshot John
03-21-12, 11:07
John, I get what you are saying and I agree with you.
But the problem you aren't addressing or acknowledging is that many people here already have done these things. Called, wrote, and visited.
TARP / Obamacare was rammed down out collective throats very recently, and the bad taste hasn't left yet. MANY people, more so that I can recall for any other issue spoke, wrote, and called against it. To no avail.
There are really two types of people in America. Those who will do the things you suggest and those who will complain and bitch but do nothing. The powers that be have long realized that they can ignore the first group. They have recently figured out that they can ignore the second group as well.
So what do we do now?
Thank you for a well thought out and reasoned response
I get what you're saying and I agree it's frustrating but again people have to dig in. Likewise with TARP and HCR, a relative minority was being vocal, while the majority of those that opposed it remained silent and signaled their assent by their silence.
Then again, individually we don't have that much influence, it's when many millions of Americans, from both sides of the political aisle, stand up and say "bullshit" that we'll see results, but that won't happen overnight, and it certainly won't happen if people try only once and say "well I've done my part."
but that won't happen overnight, and it certainly won't happen if people try only once and say "well I've done my part."
This is what I am most afraid of frankly. It took alot of effort to get some folks to write the obamacare letters. Knowing what I know about people, my concern is that when I try to get them to complain about this, they will retort with "well, I wrote a letter to Rep. So-and-so and he just ignored me then, why won't he just ignore me now? No thanks, I'll go back to watching football."
Doc Safari
03-21-12, 11:18
Gutshot John, you probably have that unusual animal known as an actual "representative".
I couldn't even get my senator to return any form of communication I sent him, other than an e-mail stating in so many words that the senator has made up his mind and because I disagree with him I am not with the program.
I suspect this is why the town hall meetings have often turned into shouting matches.
Don't get me wrong: we shouldn't give up, but the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
Thank you for a well thought out and reasoned response
I get what you're saying and I agree it's frustrating but again people have to dig in. Likewise with TARP and HCR, a relative minority was being vocal, while the majority of those that opposed it remained silent and signaled their assent by their silence.
Then again, individually we don't have that much influence, it's when many millions of Americans, from both sides of the political aisle, stand up and say "bullshit" that we'll see results, but that won't happen overnight, and it certainly won't happen if people try only once and say "well I've done my part."
John, I get what you're saying and totally agree that we have to fight with pen and paper, raise awareness to our representatives, ect.
BUT I think you may be forgetting a couple of things:
1) Just about 50% of the country is on some type of welfare. Why would they "bite the hand that feeds them"?
2) Out of the rest of the 50% of the population, you have a large portion that was raised to believe that the gov has their best interests in mind. Who are they to question otherwise?
3) TPTB have done such a good job at polarizing everybody based on political stance, race, religion, ect. that just serves to shift the focus off of what's really the issues, and on to things that are more trivial.
4) Then you have the people who are so wrapped up in their Starbucks and Facebook, that they have no clue what is happening around them! As long as they can blog about their latest drama, they're content.
SO that just leaves a VERY small majority (us and those like us) to ACTUALY DO SOMETHING!....and even some of these types may not get around to doing things all the time, thanks to the rat race that is life.
With all that said though, I think there are plenty of good people running for Congress/Senate this election that have come from "grassroots" background. These are the people you should be voting for. They ARE us!
Just like Doc said, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. If you vote for the "establishment" types that people have been voting for for the last 80-100 years, then you will get the SAME results and we'll be headed in the SAME direction that we are now, regardless of which party your vote went to.
The_War_Wagon
03-21-12, 15:58
Hey - good news on the "complaining/protesting" front!
US Secret Service Says No Anti-Obama Rallies Allowed! (http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/45377)
- Sher Zieve Tuesday, March 20, 2012
Over the weekend I received an email from my local TEA Party Director that Barack Hussein Obama would fly into Carlsbad, NM airport on Wednesday 21 March, in order to “make an appearance at the South Eastern NM oilfields.” However, apparently after hearing that an immediate anti-Obama rally had been planned, Obama and his entourage changed the landing location to Roswell, NM… a city 77 miles from Carlsbad.
Note: Interesting as, despite the fear and trepidation Obama is trying valiantly to instill into the American people, his own panic seems to be showing.
When the US Secret Service discovered that the enterprising group of our Southeast New Mexico Patriots had, also, switched their plans and would drive to Roswell to engage in peaceful and Constitutionally allowed dissent against the Obama policies of the destruction of the United States of America, the SS began to put their respective feet down. First, the SS made a strong request that the anti-Obama rally not occur…at all. When the TEA Party members advised them that they still planned to do so, it was announced that the main road (Earl Cummings Loop) into and out of the Roswell airport would be closed.
In other words, ONLY the planned Obama sycophants, adherents and Adoration Groups will be allowed in…all others no longer have any free speech.
Note: Considering Obama’s recent “Executive Order—National Defense Resources Preparedness,” which was changed and vastly expanded to allow him to seize ALL US resources—including those of private citizens—this latest shut down of free speech shouldn’t come as a real surprise.
Question: Can you imagine what would have happened if President G.W. Bush had pulled something like this?
I spoke with one of the founders of the Chavez County (NM) TEA Party, Bob Mitzel, who appropriately asked: “Is the President afraid of the American people or is he just afraid of the truth?” Excellent question, Bob.
If anyone is in the Roswell, NM area on Wednesday 21 March at 3:00 p.m. mt. (or can plan to be there), and would like to join the protest, it is now being held at The New Mexico Youth Challenge Academy-131 Earl Cummings Loop (Roswell, NM). Isn’t it time to end Obama’s decimation of our Bill of Rights and Reign of Terror? If not now…when?
Sher Zieve
Sher Zieve is an author and political commentator. Zieve’s op-ed columns are widely carried by multiple internet journals and sites, and she also writes hard news. Her columns have also appeared in The Oregon Herald, Dallas Times, Sacramento Sun, in international news publications, and on multiple university websites. Sher is also a guest on multiple national radio shows.
Sher can be reached at Sher_Zieve@yahoo.com
Thank goodness for the FREE CANADIENS, keeping us informed of U.S. Gummint shenanigans, eh? :o
He's coming to my state tomorrow. There will be NO representatives from the state of Oklahoma available to greet him (despite it being his firts visit here) and my congressional rep made this statement:
“President Obama claiming credit for speeding up the Keystone pipeline is like Al Gore saying he invented the internet – it is claiming credit where credit isn't due. This is clearly an attempt to deflect attention from $4 gas and his failed energy policies, and Oklahomans won't buy it. The southern portion of Keystone XL doesn’t cross international lines and doesn’t need presidential approval. In fact, this administration has done everything in their power to delay the Keystone process – just last week the President personally lobbied members of Congress to vote against it.”
“Simply put, the southern portion of keystone – from Cushing, OK to the Gulf Coast – is being built in spite of the Obama Administration, not because of them. This portion of the pipeline does require numerous permits, but those come from state authorities, army corps of engineers and fish and wildlife services, not the president.”
The planned media event is "closed to the public". He'll be arriving at an Air Force Base and helo'd to the press junket site. No way to protest him even if we wanted to.
After all, we wouldn't want the peasants letting the king know he has no clothes! :mad:
montanadave
03-21-12, 18:05
Not saying it's kosher, but it ain't anything new either. When Cheney appeared in my home town, protesters were removed from his motorcade route by the local gendarmes under Secret Service direction.
It most certainly isn't kosher. When 1st Amendment rights are suppressed so that American royalty doesn't have to be subjected to the displeasure of their subjects, we've lost our representative form of government. You know, in a free society, those folks might decide to not do those things that piss everyone off if they had to face said people! :(
The more I think about, the more I feel like we've already lost the republic. It's already over.
They say actions speak louder than words. Well I've been spending nearly all of my extra $ on gearing up for a systemic failure here in conus.
There's a certain point as you're bailing water out of your sinking boat, when you realize it's not working. It's going to sink, and if you know what's good for you, you'd better reallocate your attention and resources to survival. Stop what you're doing, and think in terms of
"Once the boat slips beneath the waves, then I'll ______"
That's where my heads at if I'm honest.
Belmont31R
03-22-12, 01:00
The more I think about, the more I feel like we've already lost the republic. It's already over.
It is alreadly lost.
Yeah I just can just seeing us return to a late 1700's level of freedom anytime soon. (insert biggest lol/sarcastic smiley here).
Freedom in America anymore. GTFO! :rolleyes::p
Gutshot John
03-22-12, 10:55
People always look back to some sort of idyllic time that really wasn't all that idyllic. It's always easier to understand the past than anticipate the future. Human beings are human for a reason, they are good and bad and the times do nothing to change this. That's not to say that there aren't real problems but those problems can be addressed if the citizenry is willing to do something about it. I love how people talk about the Republic being lost but didn't do anything about it before and aren't doing anything to address it now. That's simply pathetic.
There is an excellent book called "Why Nations Fail" by Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson. http://whynationsfail.com/summary/ Simply put the American Republic is in fine shape to move forward as long as people are willing to make a stand.
Late 1700s? Whiskey Rebellion? Indian Attack? Slavery? Widespread ignorance? Disease? Threats from European monarchies? Economic weakness? What was so great about the late 1700s?
The Republic isn't lost unless people here simply throw up their hands and continue to make excuses for the reasons why they can't do anything about it.
People get the government they deserve, and if the Republic is lost the responsibility lies with the citizenry.
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2861/1984y.jpg
davidjinks
03-22-12, 11:04
How many times have you written a letter to your senator or congressman/woman and gotten the shill response:
Thank you for your concerns. Your ___________ has the same thoughts and feelings about the matter you have written us about. We can assure you we will do everything we can to fight for what you believe in.....
I'll reiterate, the government doesn't give a shit what the common folk thinks. If they did we wouldn't be where we're at now.
At what point do we stop voicing our opinions, concerns, cares and dissatisfaction with our government?*
At what point do we, as free Americans, pull up our pants, spit on our hands and say enough is enough?
Is it now? Was it 10 years ago? Was it 50 years ago?
If now is the time, how does one start? I can tell you now that, in my opinion, we as a nation are fractured. There is no definite common ground between all Americans. We gave that up years ago. We stopped being united and started slipping by the wayside.*
One example I can think of; the Patriot Act. If that wasn't a kick in the teeth to us, as Americans, I don't know what was. The largest, sweeping act this nation has seen in a long time that, with a stroke of the pen, took our rights right out from under us.
How many protested the Patriot Act? Lots...however let me say again, the government doesn't give a shit! They did it anyway.
Universal Health Care, Bailouts, nationalization of private banks, fiat currency, NDAA, Executive Orders, Fast and Furious, World Bank, IMF, NATO, United Nations...the list drags on. And those are just the most recent, say 10-12 years, worth of crap.
They are all one in the same. They are all tied to each other. They are all meant to break us down as a society and keep us down. No amount of letters, phone calls, meetings, town halls will ever correct the wrongs.*
I see typing. I see the words everyone is using. What I don't see is what it has gotten us. What I don't see are those elected "Patriots" that speak, with a forked tongue, doing anything that we, the people, have asked them to do.
I see our elected officials getting richer, greedier, clawing their way up and over those of us who actually care about this wonderful country. For what? Another dollar, more stock options, larger contracts, bigger houses, self voted pay raises?
Some people talk a good talk. Some people can even walk that walk. How many times does it take to get kicked in the teeth to realize the only thing you're getting out of this is a sore mouth?
When do we put the pens down, hang the phones up and say enough is enough? At what point do we free ourselves?
People always look back to some sort of idyllic time that really wasn't all that idyllic. It's always easier to understand the past than anticipate the future. Human beings are human for a reason, they are good and bad and the times do nothing to change this. That's not to say that there aren't real problems but those problems can be addressed if the citizenry is willing to do something about it. I love how people talk about the Republic being lost but didn't do anything about it before and aren't doing anything to address it now. That's simply pathetic.
There is an excellent book called "Why Nations Fail" by Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson. http://whynationsfail.com/summary/ Simply put the American Republic is in fine shape to move forward as long as people are willing to make a stand.
Late 1700s? Whiskey Rebellion? Indian Attack? Slavery? Widespread ignorance? Disease? Threats from European monarchies? Economic weakness? What was so great about the late 1700s?
The Republic isn't lost unless people here simply throw up their hands and continue to make excuses for the reasons why they can't do anything about it.
People get the government they deserve, and if the Republic is lost the responsibility lies with the citizenry.
Would you agree that since the majority couldn't care less about this conversation we're having right now the Republic is already lost? When is too late too late? With the anti-Liberty laws that have been passed in the last 7 or 8 years w/o nary a whimper then at what point does We the People start to actually care in order to enact the reversal you speak of? At what point do you think past empires realized the writing was on the wall yet could do nothing about it since the majority was apathetic to everything besides acquiring wealth & goods? Too stupid and distracted to care until it was too late. To me, that's where we are. The few informed people who care enough about this nation see it coming but with SO many people caught up in TMZ and who's having who's baby what does it matter? I try to mention real life things like this once in a while on Facebook and people unfriend me. It's too real for the average citizen. We're enough generations away from the fire that built this great nation that people don't get what it took or how much effort is required to maintain it. This all spells doom and not only is the writing on the wall but the gears are in motion with the laws that have already passed in plain sight. Imagine how bad things will get once they start doing things behind our back. So, other than talking a tough game on an internet forum to like-minded people, what do you propose will save the Republic? What are the actionable items we can look to?
VooDoo6Actual
03-22-12, 11:46
I think that when Americans start getting locked up, pulled from families etc. That will cause a reaction. When the agenda becomes clearer & people realize they will/are being slaughtered might cause a reaction.
No need to get didactic historically regarding Jews, Armenians, Pols et alia etc. Then again many people in times past have gone to their known fates w/o a fight.
Ultimately it does depend on the will of the people.
The fight is far from over. To make comments of that nature of attrition at this stage is not helpful in the least.
I think that when Americans start getting locked up, pulled from families etc. That will cause a reaction.
I doubt it. The folks of today that agree to NSA/TSA requirements of today will claim it is for their National Security.
I wish I were joking. But I'm not.
I think that when Americans start getting locked up, pulled from families etc. That will cause a reaction. When the agenda becomes clearer & people realize they will/are being slaughtered might cause a reaction.
No need to get didactic historically regarding Jews, Armenians, Pols et alia etc. Then again many people in times past have gone to their known fates w/o a fight.
Ultimately it does depend on the will of the people.
The fight is far from over. To make comments of that nature of attrition at this stage is not helpful in the least.
If by 'fight' you mean 0.0063% of the population bitching on an internet forum I don't think the politicians realize they're in a fight. I get the feeling they think they're in an unopposed take over.
Gutshot John
03-22-12, 12:09
This is why the stark political divisions in this country are so pernicious.
They distract us by sowing the seeds of dissent between liberal and conservative through ultimately meaningless distractions over minutiae such as prayer in schools, abortion, trayvon martin blahblahblah. We get all spun up over stupid shit when in actuality all Americans should be concerned with what the government is doing that gets little press and to which people pay little attention.
And yet I see conservatives calling people "libtards" when those same people were vocal in their opposition to the TSA/Patriot Act etc.
You bet your ass that if a million or more citizens descended on Washington and demanded that their representatives do something about this...they WOULD. Barring that you might not get the immediate gratification of your rep going "yes sir, right away sir" in response to your letter but expecting such a response is unrealistic, but you're deluding yourself if you think that they're not counting letters for and against an issue and making calculations about their re-election chances. Grassroots is far more effective than you think but it's not an individual letter that will make a difference...it's many many thousands of individual letters that will. If you won't do your part, why should anyone else? If no one else does...than they'll continue to do whatever they want, and you have no one to blame but yourselves.
All I tried to do was make people aware...so that they would act. That people continue to make excuses for doing nothing bodes poorly for this country but let's not pretend that conservatives have any monopoly on Republican virtue.
It's pretty discouraging. People talk about holding the Constitution sacred but they can't even be bothered to write a letter. :rolleyes:
DeltaSierra
03-22-12, 12:11
I think that when Americans start getting locked up, pulled from families etc. That will cause a reaction. When the agenda becomes clearer & people realize they will/are being slaughtered might cause a reaction.
The majority of people won't give a hang when a "domestic terrorist" is shot in the street....
There will be no reaction whatsoever.
The majority of people won't give a hang when a "domestic terrorist" is shot in the street....
There will be no reaction whatsoever.
I wish this wasn't accurate.
DeltaSierra
03-22-12, 12:17
This is why the stark political divisions in this country are so pernicious.
They distract us by sowing the seeds of dissent between liberal and conservative through ultimately meaningless distractions over minutiae such as prayer in schools, abortion, trayvon martin blahblahblah. We get all spun up over stupid shit when in actuality all Americans should be concerned with what the government is doing that gets little press and to which people pay little attention.
And yet I see conservatives calling people "libtards" when those same people were vocal in their opposition to the TSA/Patriot Act etc.
How true. People are so caught up in trivialities to comprehend the bigger picture....
Gutshot John
03-22-12, 12:29
You keep trying. I don't know about you but I don't think you give up that quickly when the prospect of civil war should be horrifying. Honestly I get some people have these red dawn fantasies without understanding what that would really mean and the huge potential for the cure being worse than the disease.
VooDoo6Actual
03-22-12, 14:28
If by 'fight' you mean 0.0063% of the population bitching on an internet forum I don't think the politicians realize they're in a fight. I get the feeling they think they're in an unopposed take over.
While I certainly understand & comprehend exactly what your saying,
You would be pleasantly surprised & invigorated to hear what the comments are where I hang, people who ask me regarding the topic, that includes all State, Fed, Muni, sheriffs LEOs, MIL, Polititians & useless eaters.
Too many variables still....
You would be pleasantly surprised & invigorated to hear what the comments are where I hang, people who ask me regardingthe topic, that includes all State, Fed, Muni, sheriffs LEOs, MIL, Polititians & useless eaters.
Too many variables still....
My hope lies on comments like this...while there may be variables we will never know until caca strikes the fan, the eternal optimism in my gut tells me the red blooded constitution loving patriot will shine.
Maybe it's because I have friends in mil & le with the same mind set & just deceiving myself, but it is where I sit today...all the while trying to grasp how we got to this place and left the path of our founding fathers in so many principles.
Whatever eventually happens, we have to continue to voice our opinions with our elected representatives, in newspaper letters, where-ever we have a chance.
Whether of not they are successful, blowing off doing our part because it doesn't matter anyway is not acceptable.
Moose-Knuckle
03-22-12, 15:15
Mean while I'm making more bulk ammo purchases. . .
Reagans Rascals
03-22-12, 15:52
Of course, as you read this thread, your blood begins to boil and you really become worried about our country.
As soon as you get off this forum, and get back to daily life, you won't even think about it again until you get back on.
Why? Because you are not being directly affected by anything the government is supposedly doing, at least right now. No one is trying to take your guns away, the FBI isn't knocking on your door to question the suspicious porn sites you've been visiting, you aren't being arrested and detained for several days every time you get a speeding ticket, ect.
For the most part, as long as our lives aren't directly affected, what the government does it mostly out of our hands and out of mind. This country might not be headed in a great direction, but right now you are still living on one of the best countries on earth. I say to just **** it and enjoy life while it lasts. Life is too short to constantly be worried about the government and our world. If push comes to shove, try to do something about it. But until then, I just let it be. There are more important things.
Life is too short to worry. You're the good guy, the government cronies aren't. Be proud of that.
+1 very good post
I try to mention real life things like this once in a while on Facebook and people unfriend me.
I've lost over 80 "friends" on Facebook because of the truth. Good riddance.
"It is natural for man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts...For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it." - Patrick Henry
Funny how some words are true no matter when they are spoken.
Human nature doesn't change. Our technology does, our culture does. But not our nature.
I don't think we should give up that quickly when the prospect of civil war should be horrifying.
You're right. Civil war is the very last thing anyone should consider an option. So keep on keepin' on until your state legislature votes to secede and a war you've got.
I've lost over 80 "friends" on Facebook because of the truth. Good riddance.
The reason behind posting that wasn't to complain about losing friends. It was to simply state that if the majority is troubled by hearing such things how can you expect them to get off their asses and act on it? I'm sure they were fine with the posts about Katy Perry's marriage being over or pictures of a kitten hanging from a rope but you mention why NDAA is a bad thing before it's passed and you get unfriended at wholesale prices. Heaven forbid you touch their pirated music though because SOPA will be all over social media like nobody has even seen. Atrocities on humanity in Africa? People can't post that shit quick enough. You try to talk about where things are headed in this country and how people can take action and they can't get out of the room fast enough. That's the only point I was trying to make in response to someone saying 'All we need to do is fight' which is all well and good but that 'we' is about 0.0063% of the population unfortunately. Trust me when I say I do fight the good fight (which is how I get my feedback on how effective it is) but that doesn't mean I think it's going to work.
This is why the stark political divisions in this country are so pernicious.
They distract us by sowing the seeds of dissent between liberal and conservative through ultimately meaningless distractions over minutiae such as prayer in schools, abortion, trayvon martin blahblahblah. We get all spun up over stupid shit when in actuality all Americans should be concerned with what the government is doing that gets little press and to which people pay little attention.
It actually goes much, much deeper than this.
If you think back to the 1990's when the whole political correct movement was in full steam people started becoming "hyphenated Americans", the most notable of which was the change in language from "Black" to "African-American". Now ask yourself, why? What purpose would this serve? Surely nobody was legitimately offended by being called Black, so why change things?
The answer is that by forcing a change in the nomenclature, you are constantly programming people, without them even realizing it, to think they are associating themselves as a distinct subgroup that is not wholly American, thereby creating a division where none exists. By using the term _____ (insert region or country here) - American, you can shape people into identifying with their older country (that most have never even seen, nor known anyone who was ever there) more than America, or at least get them thinking into terms of division. So instead of being united as a whole, people get broken down into small sub-groups, and then gently nudged into fighting with the other artificially created sub-groups.
DeltaSierra
03-22-12, 18:45
Honestly I get some people have these red dawn fantasies without understanding what that would really mean and the huge potential for the cure being worse than the disease.
Agreed.
The reason behind posting that wasn't to complain about losing friends. It was to simply state that if the majority is troubled by hearing such things how can you expect them to get off their asses and act on it? I'm sure they were fine with the posts about Katy Perry's marriage being over or pictures of a kitten hanging from a rope but you mention why NDAA is a bad thing before it's passed and you get unfriended at wholesale prices. Heaven forbid you touch their pirated music though because SOPA will be all over social media like nobody has even seen. Atrocities on humanity in Africa? People can't post that shit quick enough. You try to talk about where things are headed in this country and how people can take action and they can't get out of the room fast enough. That's the only point I was trying to make in response to someone saying 'All we need to do is fight' which is all well and good but that 'we' is about 0.0063% of the population unfortunately. Trust me when I say I do fight the good fight (which is how I get my feedback on how effective it is) but that doesn't mean I think it's going to work.
I was substantiating what you said. I agree with all of this too.
I was substantiating what you said. I agree with all of this too.
In that case I agree with your post of agreement as it is also agreeable to me. :D
I know the thread has drifted, and it isn't exactly about the TSA, but check this out:
http://a.yfrog.com/img611/8493/lb9nk.jpg
Picture was taken at Kansas City International Airport...
Distubing. No, disgusting! Reminds me of last week's episode of South Park. Those guys get a LOT of stuff right and it's just a cartoon. If only our leaders were as insightful as those two.
I know the thread has drifted, and it isn't exactly about the TSA, but check this out:
http://a.yfrog.com/img611/8493/lb9nk.jpg
Picture was taken at Kansas City International Airport...
Umm, you do know that those aren't TSA employees, right? Just sayin...
davidjinks
03-22-12, 21:10
Yes, those are TSA employees.
Umm, you do know that those aren't TSA employees, right? Just sayin...
montanadave
03-22-12, 22:14
What the hell, in for a penny in for a pound.
Attorney General Eric Holder today approved revised guidelines for the National Counterterrorism Center to retain information on private citizens for up to five years regardless of whether there is any known connection to terrorism. Previously, the personal data had to be destroyed within 180 days if no link to terrorism could be substantiated.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/new-counterterrorism-guidelines-would-permit-data-on-us-citizens-to-be-held-longer/2012/03/21/gIQAFLm7TS_story.html
Didn't someone comment a few posts back regarding how privacy issues are one area in which groups from across the political spectrum seem to be finding some common ground?
From the article posted above:
The purpose of the safeguards is to ensure that the “robust tools that we give the military and intelligence community to protect Americans from foreign threats aren’t directed back against Americans,” said ACLU national security policy counsel Michael German. “Watering down those rules raises significant concerns that U.S. persons are being targeted or swept up in these collection programs and can be harmed by continuing investigations for as long as these agencies hold the data.”
Umm, you do know that those aren't TSA employees, right? Just sayin...
Even if they are private, aren't they still bound by TSA regs?
Yes, those are TSA employees.
No, they're not. They're private contract screeners hired by MCI (the Kansas City International Airport). If you look closely, the shoulder patch is not a TSA patch. MCI was one of five "pilot" airports on the retention of private screeners post-9/11. There are currently 17 airports nationally with private screeners.
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/12/132748544/airports-consider-using-private-security-screeners
Even if they are private, aren't they still bound by TSA regs?
Yes, they are. I won't defend all their policies, as many of them need to be changed. But, when (ex)Chairman of the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee John Mica starts wildly swinging at TSA, you might want to consider who makes major campaign donations to him before blindly assuming he's SO altruistic! :(
I'd love to see things go back to pre-9/11 days. DHS, Patriot Act, NDAA, they could all go away tomorrow and we'd be better off. I'm just not sure we'll ever get back there. :(
I can see that building from my front porch. I just thought they were keeping an eye on me. Looks like they are after everyone else too.
montanadave
03-22-12, 23:56
I can see that building from my front porch. I just thought they were keeping an eye on me. Looks like they are after everyone else too.
On the plus side, you might end up with a kickass Internet connection!
VooDoo6Actual
03-23-12, 08:40
PSY OPS are a big part of unconventional warfare.
those that are savvy can connect the dots...
Those that cave so quickly should take inventory...
davidjinks
03-23-12, 10:20
I stand corrected. I did not realize that MCI opted out of the SSP. Thank you for the clarification.
On a side note...they should change their uniforms.
No, they're not. They're private contract screeners hired by MCI (the Kansas City International Airport). If you look closely, the shoulder patch is not a TSA patch. MCI was one of five "pilot" airports on the retention of private screeners post-9/11. There are currently 17 airports nationally.......
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