View Full Version : ALG Defense ACT Trigger - First Impression
I know there are a couple of other ALG ACT trigger threads floating around but I figured that I would give my first impression of the trigger.
I have only installed and dry fired the trigger and have not done any live fire yet. I am very much a proponent of a USGI type trigger in a non-precision, non-magnified, battle type rifle and had high hopes for this trigger which comes in at $65. I will first say that the trigger does everything that it advertises but perhaps the comparison of other USGI triggers back to back actually helped me come to my first impressions.
I will say that I was very much left unimpressed with the trigger. Maybe I had too high of hopes for the ACT trigger, but in reality I couldn't find any reasons why I would replace any of my stock USGI triggers with another in this price range. I was a bit hesitant to post my opinions and post the video's but that wouldn't be true to what I feel is my "tell it like it is" style in my video's and my review and opinion may not sit well for some.
For those interested here are the video's. This first video has a short final review, because the back to back comparison trigger pull video was a bit long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbP6GMKIBHc
This video contains my first time pulling the trigger and my first impression on film. I also compare it to several other USGI types of triggers, just on my own feel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmp52bIhdLI
Well, there we go. Thank you for the review and videos!
BrigandTwoFour
03-21-12, 23:18
I, too, installed the ACT today in a BCM 16" LW carbine. The USGI trigger that the lower came with had a significant amount of creep to it, and the ACT most definitely cleaned that up.
I found the break to be clean enough, with a weight comparable to the GI trigger I already had.
Overall, though, I agree. I don't think the ACT is great enough to warrant replacing a perfectly serviceable USGI trigger. If I was doing a build from scratch, then sure, why not?
In the end, I will be moving an SSA from another gun and replacing the ACT with it (the other gun will be getting a SD-E)
Assuming that we all understand the clear and defined design parameters that are associated with this particular trigger....
1.) The ACT trigger is forced to use the standard mil spec trigger's design, and sear geometry. This is also arguably the main reason for this trigger to even exist.
2.) Very low price point.....$65. This trigger's price tag, and every single piece of official literature released about it makes extremely clear that this isn't a "wow" trigger.
What exactly were you expecting.....something different than a cleaned up mil spec trigger?
Quite frankly, the ACT is nothing more than a less shitty stock/mil spec trigger, that is it's main design function. It's for folks who don't have the scratch for "uber" triggers, or others who are forced into running a mil spec/stock trigger(pull weight allowances) in a duty/work rifle.
If you want the best triggers made, with trigger pulls that create a narcotic effect, than grab a Geissele.
SW-Shooter
03-21-12, 23:35
Wow, you're an "Industry Professional" and you haven't even live fired the trigger before you bash it. I don't know what you have to do to be an "Industry Professional", but color me unimpressed by your "review".
At this time I am going to just stop because I don't want to get banned.
Wow, you're an "Industry Professional" and you haven't even live fired the trigger before you bash it. I don't know what you have to do to be an "Industry Professional", but color me unimpressed by your "review".
At this time I am going to just stop because I don't want to get banned.
He's never been a fan of the Geissele triggers so I'm not surprised with his opinion.
FWIW, I replaced my Colt USGI trigger with the ACT and it was MUCH smoother. Creep was almost non existant and break was much more predictable in the ACT. Do I notice a difference when I'm hammering the trigger as fast as I can? No. Do I notice a difference when I'm trying to pull the trigger slowly? Most definitely.
Is that worth $40 (the price difference between the LMT and the ACT)? Well thats up to each individual to decide.
Maybe we should all just wait until an ACT is used in a live fire session and go from there when its reported eh? I am sure someone on this website will use one in a class/competition at some point.
^^ That makes two of us that weren't surprised in the least...can't understand why the man keeps buying these widgets:D
It's all good though as we're all entitled to our own opinion, and moreover we're allowed to share it with the m4c community. Great thing about Geissele, and now I imagine ALG triggers is that if you don't for one reason or another care for it....toss it to the sharks on the various EEs.
Wow, you're an "Industry Professional" and you haven't even live fired the trigger before you bash it. I don't know what you have to do to be an "Industry Professional", but color me unimpressed by your "review".
At this time I am going to just stop because I don't want to get banned.
I'm not defending Surf's opinion but Surf didn't say anything about function but merely commented on the feel. Dry firing is one of the best ways to determine resistance, trigger break, reset and pull. Honestly I do the same thing.
Maybe we should all just wait until an ACT is used in a live fire session and go from there when its reported eh? I am sure someone on this website will use one in a class/competition at some point.
My opinion is based on my experience after putting around 600 rounds down range with it (as well as dry firing it at home).
With "pull" I am referring to the trigger's resistance on the forefinger back to the neutral position following the reset break.
I shot a lot of Olympic style shooting with my Anschütz 1913 Super and my break was 32g and I was really really spoiled with that two-stage trigger. Did tons of dry firing before competitions as practice... But for my ARs I have just left the standard GI triggers they came with. Even the GSSA triggers don't do it for me so I don't bother.
My opinion is based on my experience after putting around 600 rounds down range with it (as well as dry firing it at home).
Sorry, I didn't see that in your original post. Glad you got to try it out.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I knew this would ruffle some feathers and I will not let a title below my username to suddenly stop me from giving my absolute no BS opinion about a product. Agree or disagree with my opinion, it is my opinion and I respect others posts here also.
Well, there we go. Thank you for the review and videos!Again remember that my experience is a sample of 1 person. I have heard of those who feel the same as I and those who feel completely opposite.
I, too, installed the ACT today in a BCM 16" LW carbine. The USGI trigger that the lower came with had a significant amount of creep to it, and the ACT most definitely cleaned that up.
I found the break to be clean enough, with a weight comparable to the GI trigger I already had.
Overall, though, I agree. I don't think the ACT is great enough to warrant replacing a perfectly serviceable USGI trigger. If I was doing a build from scratch, then sure, why not?
In the end, I will be moving an SSA from another gun and replacing the ACT with it (the other gun will be getting a SD-E)I find that some USGI triggers out of the box have some amount of creep and others do not. I do also find that many triggers that have some amount of creep can have that creep reduced, often significantly reduced or even eliminated by a proper lubrication of the fire control parts, which is often over looked by new buyers / people assembling their own rifles, even factory rifles.
Also my real intent was not to replace any of my triggers but perhaps use these for newly built rifles or as replacement parts as needed. However for my own initial opinion is that the $65 price tag is not looking appealing for what the trigger is offering at least at this early stage.
Assuming that we all understand the clear and defined design parameters that are associated with this particular trigger....
1.) The ACT trigger is forced to use the standard mil spec trigger's design, and sear geometry. This is also arguably the main reason for this trigger to even exist.
2.) Very low price point.....$65. This trigger's price tag, and every single piece of official literature released about it makes extremely clear that this isn't a "wow" trigger.
What exactly were you expecting.....something different than a cleaned up mil spec trigger?
Quite frankly, the ACT is nothing more than a less shitty stock/mil spec trigger, that is it's main design function. It's for folks who don't have the scratch for "uber" triggers, or others who are forced into running a mil spec/stock trigger(pull weight allowances) in a duty/work rifle.
If you want the best triggers made, with trigger pulls that create a narcotic effect, than grab a Geissele.The key to your hypothesis seems to be is "less shitty" worth the low (?) price tag of the trigger. Now I am definitely not calling it a "shitty trigger" like you state above as I like USGI type triggers for this application described for that rifle. I also understand the costs involved to produce it. Now perhaps you and I have a different definition of low price tag, but $65 for what I am actually getting for performance over a standard USGI trigger is debatable. But if you have disposable cash then why not, but I might reason that guys who may use this weapon that have certain restrictions to follow on their triggers, might think that $65 for a so called "less shitty" trigger is a lot of money. I will be letting many of these exact type of guys try out this trigger back to back with other USGI triggers and see if they feel that $65 is worth it to them.
Remember that I do outline and completely understand the guidelines that ALG wished to follow with this trigger and its intended applications / audience.
Wow, you're an "Industry Professional" and you haven't even live fired the trigger before you bash it. I don't know what you have to do to be an "Industry Professional", but color me unimpressed by your "review".
At this time I am going to just stop because I don't want to get banned.By all means, feel free to say your peace. I have never wavered from coming across in any way other than professional in speaking my mind and as long as you do also I don't think anyone will have a problem with that. I also did not ask to be given the title of "Industry Professional" but if was offered after verifying my creds and probably due to my contributing to the site and its topics in a meaningful manner and for that I am appreciative of those who thought highly enough to speak to me about it.
On the flip side, what I have found is that with this title I actually hold back more often than not on my opinions, which I often feel is detrimental to the enthusiasts and the industry itself. I will not compromise my opinions because of sponsorship, industry ties, you name it. It isn't my style. Speaking my opinion in a matter of fact and well thought out manner is my style. I post my opinions based on what I feel is a pretty extensive background which heavily focus on this particular platform of weapon system. I have no lack of experience in design, development, testing and evaluation, but none the less my opinion is but 1 single opinion.
I might ask if you actually viewed the video's? I clearly state that I am giving an initial impression of the trigger and that it has not been live fired. Does that differ from any number of others who give an initial first impression on any item? Does that differ from someone posting that they only installed this trigger but that their initial impression was positive and everyone jumps the wagon and raves about the new wonder item? Quite frankly, I don't go into herd mentality and do the bandwagon thing which is often far too common on forums. I purchase and test on my own. Yes this is an initial opinion, but that was very much up front. Most people jump on the bandwagon without ANY practical hands on experience dry fire or otherwise. It isn't my style.
Again, I will put this trigger through the wringer. I can say without a doubt, at this point it doesn't feel much different than most of my USGI triggers, some that are very new, if not brand new. In reality dry fire shows a lot. It will be exactly the same as live fire at least until the round counts get higher and I get a feel for what this trigger is doing over time an if it is smoothing out more. But it will take time and several hundred rounds, however that does not discount my initial impressions of the trigger itself. It does everything that is advertised of it and I clearly state this. IMO, is it worth the cost over other USGI triggers that do the exact same thing for me? Time will tell.
He's never been a fan of the Geissele triggers so I'm not surprised with his opinion.
FWIW, I replaced my Colt USGI trigger with the ACT and it was MUCH smoother. Creep was almost non existant and break was much more predictable in the ACT. Do I notice a difference when I'm hammering the trigger as fast as I can? No. Do I notice a difference when I'm trying to pull the trigger slowly? Most definitely.
Is that worth $40 (the price difference between the LMT and the ACT)? Well thats up to each individual to decide.Let me clarify your first point. I absolutely love the Geissele triggers! They are THE best triggers on the market in their class. They are not however a cure for a shitty shooter and this band aid type of fix is often preached as gospel that a shooter must go out and get one to be a great shooter, even if they can barely afford a rifle. The herd mentality is staggering on forums when it comes to triggers in a battle grade, non-precision, non-magnified rifle.
As for the ALG, it was more predictable then some of my USGI triggers, but virtually the same as others, while some others had a nicer break. I do note that "consistency" from ACT trigger to trigger is one of the good things about it. I also note the same thing that you note. If I am combat shooting, I don't think there will be an ounce of difference. But if I want more precision, and perhaps throw on a scope to slow fire for groups, the ACT might have an advantage. But that isn't the my desire for application of a USGI trigger.
Maybe we should all just wait until an ACT is used in a live fire session and go from there when its reported eh? I am sure someone on this website will use one in a class/competition at some point.Oh, there is no doubt that I will wring it out very very soon. Again, I can state with zero doubt that the feel I get now with dry fire will not change or might not change until the weapon and trigger gets several hundred rounds on it.
^^ That makes two of us that weren't surprised in the least...can't understand why the man keeps buying these widgets:D
It's all good though as we're all entitled to our own opinion, and moreover we're allowed to share it with the m4c community. Great thing about Geissele, and now I imagine ALG triggers is that if you don't for one reason or another care for it....toss it to the sharks on the various EEs.Again, I love the Geissele triggers, especially on my precision rifles. I also go through a lot of widgets because testing and evaluation of items is a part of my actual job duties for a very large entity within my career field. Besides, who doesn't like tinkering? You do, don't you? ;)
I'm not defending Surf's opinion but Surf didn't say anything about function but merely commented on the feel. Dry firing is one of the best ways to determine resistance, trigger break, reset and pull. Honestly I do the same thing.Yep, dry firing is pretty critical to trigger development, testing, training and sales promotion. If it wasn't no one would do it. There is a reason that you can pull the nice triggers in those cool little trigger blocks. :)
My opinion is based on my experience after putting around 600 rounds down range with it (as well as dry firing it at home).I hope to have a follow up very shortly when I put a few hundred through it.
With "pull" I am referring to the trigger's resistance on the forefinger back to the neutral position following the reset break.
I shot a lot of Olympic style shooting with my Anschütz 1913 Super and my break was 32g and I was really really spoiled with that two-stage trigger. Did tons of dry firing before competitions as practice... But for my ARs I have just left the standard GI triggers they came with. Even the GSSA triggers don't do it for me so I don't bother.Funny but I see where your coming from because my background is from the precision rifle side of things and I am a bit of a 1911 snob so I like nice triggers. I often think that people attempt to upgrade the hardware without addressing the software.
I will be letting many of these exact type of guys try out this trigger back to back with other USGI triggers and see if they feel that $65 is worth it to them.
I can say without a doubt, at this point it doesn't feel much different than most of my USGI triggers, some that are very new, if not brand new.
In the quoted text you are alluding to something that is key, in my opinion, to a valid comparison of the ACT to a USGI trigger. Given the known fact that USGI triggers will improve with use, any comparison testing should, at a minimum, include a sample of brand new USGI triggers.
Surf- You are right on the mark. I was teaching a class with another instructor yesterday, and he brought two Colts. One had an act trigger, the other was a stock Colt with a decent round count through it. I was hard pressed to tell a difference between the two.
That doesn't make it a bad trigger as it is certainly better than many of the stock triggers I've used. However, I think the selling point of this trigger is going to be that it's a good USGI trigger, nothing more than that. If someone is looking for a low priced version of the SSA or something similar, they will be disappointed. If they are doing a build or want to replace a horrid stock trigger, this should fill the bill.
I also think this will be as good as it gets for those of us who are mandated to a USGI trigger for whatever reason.
ForTehNguyen
03-22-12, 12:44
I ordered a digital trigger pull scale. Im gonna compare some of my ARs that have it with the ones that dont. Going through my set of ARs I found 3 triggers that were noticeable grittier, creepier, and heavier than the others so these were the obvious ones to change out. When I get the scale I will put together some numbers.
Surf- You are right on the mark. I was teaching a class with another instructor yesterday, and he brought two Colts. One had an act trigger, the other was a stock Colt with a decent round count through it. I was hard pressed to tell a difference between the two.
That doesn't make it a bad trigger as it is certainly better than many of the stock triggers I've used. However, I think the selling point of this trigger is going to be that it's a good USGI trigger, nothing more than that. If someone is looking for a low priced version of the SSA or something similar, they will be disappointed. If they are doing a build or want to replace a horrid stock trigger, this should fill the bill.
I also think this will be as good as it gets for those of us who are mandated to a USGI trigger for whatever reason.
I think this is accurate. There are many "USGI" triggers out there and it is really PURE LUCK if you get one that has a good "Feel" AND is good quality. From what I can tell (from the 20 I have installed), the trigger pull is constant (around 5.8-6lbs). This is NOT the case with most USGI triggers. They have a wide range between 5-10lbs. So the consistency is there for sure.
In regards to the price, $65 is VERY fair (especially when you figure in the coating and shipping everything back and forth). On top of that, people need to realize that ALG has dealers and distributors. That means that they have to offer enough profit margins in a product to attract dealers.
Looking around the net, I see ST is selling their kit for $60. For me personally, I will gladly pay the extra $5 for their high quality (perfectly round) pins.
C4
SW-Shooter
03-22-12, 16:42
I replaced a colt trigger with an ACT, the Pony was absolutely gritty with a long takeup and a "try to find me" reset.
My issue was he compared a trigger that had in his own words thousands of rounds through it. How could anyone worth their salt in the shooting world not understand that a trigger with that amount of use will feel better than one right out of the box (or bag in this case). That's comparing apples to oranges. I've watched a lot of his reviews and to be honest nutnfancy does a better job at reviews and I can't stand that guy, surf just wore on my nerves with the ums, and the ahs, he just didn't come across as a person that does reviews professionally. It sounded like obama was doing a trigger review without the teleprompter. It just came across as a dishonest comparison and that he had an ax to grind. IMO, I am not insulting you, I am just giving an honest opinion of your review style. I just don't dismiss a product as quickly as a you did. Yes, i watched the video, more than 3 times just to ensure I didn't misunderstand anything you were trying to explain.
I'm a practical guy, I believe the rifle should stay as close to mil spec as possible (if it works for the .mil who am I to disagree). I don't like high dollar adjustable triggers because in my experience they can be picky and aren't as "idiot" proof as a standard military trigger. As soon as I received ALG's new release, I knew I had found trigger nirvana. With only 300 rounds through my Colt with the ACT installed I can honestly assess that I am hard pressed to dismiss this trigger as easily as surf did.
In the quoted text you are alluding to something that is key, in my opinion, to a valid comparison of the ACT to a USGI trigger. Given the known fact that USGI triggers will improve with use, any comparison testing should, at a minimum, include a sample of brand new USGI triggers.I agree and in my video I tried to get a range of USGI triggers from various manufacturers and with different levels of use, from heavy use to comparing a brand new trigger. Of course the sample size wasn't scores of rifles but it did give me a good baseline impression and that is what I was going for. I will also say that I am curious to see what this trigger does over time of usage and I am very upfront about wanting to shoot it and give an update. I also clearly state on video that a USGI trigger tends to get better with use and clearly state how much use I feel each of the tested triggers had on them.
Surf- You are right on the mark. I was teaching a class with another instructor yesterday, and he brought two Colts. One had an act trigger, the other was a stock Colt with a decent round count through it. I was hard pressed to tell a difference between the two. Today I let several guys pull the trigger and pulled a few brand new USGI's (Colt) and no one could tell a difference other than a couple really liked the contrasting look of the silver trigger and pin finish. But in reality, my entity would be an extremely tough sell on the finish alone. Makes no sense, but to you it might make perfect sense.
That doesn't make it a bad trigger as it is certainly better than many of the stock triggers I've used. However, I think the selling point of this trigger is going to be that it's a good USGI trigger, nothing more than that. If someone is looking for a low priced version of the SSA or something similar, they will be disappointed. If they are doing a build or want to replace a horrid stock trigger, this should fill the bill.
I also think this will be as good as it gets for those of us who are mandated to a USGI trigger for whatever reason.I definitely do not think it is a bad trigger. It is a very good trigger and It does everything that the manufacturer says it does. If every single one of these triggers from the manufacturer provides this same consistency across the board, then it is definitely a very good thing. $65 worth of a good thing? Well that is up to the user. I will say that when I told the guys who did some trigger pulls how much I spent on the trigger, well lets just say I got some interesting looks. The guys who may be the potential market for this trigger can be some underpaid and / or cheap bastards. ;)
I ordered a digital trigger pull scale. Im gonna compare some of my ARs that have it with the ones that dont. Going through my set of ARs I found 3 triggers that were noticeable grittier, creepier, and heavier than the others so these were the obvious ones to change out. When I get the scale I will put together some numbers.Did you attempt to pull out the fire control and do a good cleaning and lubing of certain areas. There is a reason that Geissele and ALG say that this needs to be done. In reality it should be done to any new rifle build and to any rifle that comes straight from the manufacturer. A good cleaning and lube of appropriate surfaces can greatly clean up and in some instances cure any creep issues in a stock USGI trigger. I might do a tutorial on that. ;)
I think this is accurate. There are many "USGI" triggers out there and it is really PURE LUCK if you get one that has a good "Feel" AND is good quality. From what I can tell (from the 20 I have installed), the trigger pull is constant (around 5.8-6lbs). This is NOT the case with most USGI triggers. They have a wide range between 5-10lbs. So the consistency is there for sure.
In regards to the price, $65 is VERY fair (especially when you figure in the coating and shipping everything back and forth). On top of that, people need to realize that ALG has dealers and distributors. That means that they have to offer enough profit margins in a product to attract dealers.
Looking around the net, I see ST is selling their kit for $60. For me personally, I will gladly pay the extra $5 for their high quality (perfectly round) pins.
C4I am very glad to hear that the ACT triggers that you are doing are consistent across the board. I would expect that just from my sample of one, purely due to the hardlube. Just like a good polish, or how a trigger starts to get over time. Basically they took the "smoothing out process" out of the picture, just like doing a polish job on a Glock trigger that can remove the "creep". But of course this isn't a good idea with the USGI trigger surfaces and the hardlube addresses that. I am also quite sure that the consistency for ALG comes from having tested various parts from various sources, picking the best and sticking with the exact same specs / suppliers to help achieve this great consistent result. As we know various manufacturers specs can be slightly different and this can be due to a myriad of things including how machines are set up for each "lot" of parts being run maybe on different days. Throw in various springs, etc and we get variety in USGI triggers, some better than others. Again the ALG recipe for consistency across the board is a big plus.
I completely understand the logistics / costs of vendors and dealers, which is why I mention above that I understand the price at which this trigger comes to market. It may be fair in regards to what goes into getting the trigger to market, but the consumer will ultimately decide if the gain is worth the cost. Again that is up to each individual. Kinda like how KAC didn't think the cost to produce the triple tap would constitute enough sales. Or how Noveske doesn't want to produce certain barrels due to cost for gain. I definitely cannot come out and say that this is a big improvement in a USGI trigger and then have guys pull the trigger and cannot tell it apart from another USGI trigger, especially if they just paid $65 for one. Again I clearly stated that it was very very hard to tell the ACT apart from a range of USGI triggers from heavy to brand new, BUT that the trigger does exactly what the manufacturer says it does.
I replaced a colt trigger with an ACT, the Pony was absolutely gritty with a long takeup and a "try to find me" reset.Can you explain what you mean by takeup in regards to the AR/M4 USGI type trigger?
My issue was he compared a trigger that had in his own words thousands of rounds through it. How could anyone worth their salt in the shooting world not understand that a trigger with that amount of use will feel better than one right out of the box (or bag in this case). That's comparing apples to oranges.Are you watching the video's? Really? I specifically stated that I tested a high use trigger, moderate use trigger, low use trigger, a brand new trigger AND triggers from a 3 different manufactures. I also clearly stated that a high use trigger is not quite a fair comparison as a trigger gets better with use. I also dry fired a few other brand new triggers today and as I mentioned above in Stickmans post, I really have a hard time telling the difference and I feel that I have a very "in tune" trigger finger.
I've watched a lot of his reviews and to be honest nutnfancy does a better job at reviews and I can't stand that guy, surf just wore on my nerves with the ums, and the ahs, he just didn't come across as a person that does reviews professionally. It sounded like obama was doing a trigger review without the teleprompter. It just came across as a dishonest comparison and that he had an ax to grind. IMO, I am not insulting you, I am just giving an honest opinion of your review style. I just don't dismiss a product as quickly as a you did. Yes, i watched the video, more than 3 times just to ensure I didn't misunderstand anything you were trying to explain.Really? Now you just sound like you have a bone to pick with me for some reason.
Do you realize what it takes to do video? Do you realize that I don't script any video's? Do you realize that I don't do many, if any retakes? I am up front about this fact. I am not some smooth video producing guy and never claim to be. I don't do retakes just because I might stumble or have a brain fart, or get completely caught off guard on camera by a trigger that really didn't impress me. I turn on tape and go. It is what it is. Not scripting might lead to me thinking on the fly, but it is what it is and I haven't scripted a single video and if it shows that I don't script, rehearse or do retakes, well quite honestly, too bad. Nevermind taking my time to just capture, convert, produce and upload the video's. But it is very nice to know there are people offering such great support. Ya know the ones like yourself. I hear you about what you are saying about the things that might annoy you about my channel, but the overwhelming positive response keeps the channel going. I might offer a bit of advice and this is sincere.....just don't watch my video's. That will fix it for you because I am not spending money on sets, fancy software, nor am I spending more time to "polish up" my act for you or anyone else. My time is limited and the channel is low on my priorities.
I'm a practical guy, I believe the rifle should stay as close to mil spec as possible (if it works for the .mil who am I to disagree). I don't like high dollar adjustable triggers because in my experience they can be picky and aren't as "idiot" proof as a standard military trigger. As soon as I received ALG's new release, I knew I had found trigger nirvana. With only 300 rounds through my Colt with the ACT installed I can honestly assess that I am hard pressed to dismiss this trigger as easily as surf did.I am also a practical guy and I train my share of .mil and LE types and I am also a huge fan of a USGI trigger. But if I am wearing my "practical hat" here, practically speaking the .mil and LE types are going to be hard pressed to pay $65 for a USGI trigger where it is hard to tell much of a difference in a practical combat type of shooting situation.
Nightvisionary
03-22-12, 22:34
Wow, you're an "Industry Professional" and you haven't even live fired the trigger before you bash it. I don't know what you have to do to be an "Industry Professional", but color me unimpressed by your "review".
At this time I am going to just stop because I don't want to get banned.
When testing a trigger what happens with the rest of the rifle after the hammer falls seems to me less important than how the trigger feels when pulling it.
SW-Shooter
03-22-12, 23:52
If you read this before you purchase the trigger you have no reason to complain or expect anything other than a premium mil-spec trigger with a different coating and some tweaking in some areas. There was no reason to create a separate thread about this when the previous one was more than adequate.
ALG
Defense
The ALG Defense ALG Combat Trigger (ACT) is designed for those shooters where tradition, value and regulatory concerns
are of primary importance. The pull of the ACT is very similar to a standard mil-spec trigger, however it is sharper and the
grittiness of the stock trigger pull has been removed while the traditional reliability of a stock trigger remains. The pull weight
is not lower than the M4/M16 minimum weight specification of 5.5lbs.
1. Performance Advantages for the Shooter
• The ALG Defense ACT trigger pull is smoother and
sharper than a stock trigger. This is accomplished by
polishing the sear surfaces smooth and HardLubing the
trigger components.
• Sear geometry has not been changed from the
standard profile so the high reliability that the stock trigger
is known for is unchanged.
• Trigger and hammer are made from true 8620 alloy
steel military specification castings, correctly carburized,
quenched and tempered for high surface hardness.
• Disconnector is 1070 High Carbon steel properly
Austempered into the spring range of hardness.
• Springs are corrosion resistant and meet military
specifications.
• A full force hammer spring is used for positive ignition
of all type of ammunition.
• Trigger and hammer pins are improved over stock mild
steel by using 4140 Chrome-Moly steel that has been
quenched and tempered. Pins are centerless ground to
a fine finish and a diameter 0.001” larger than stock to
reduce play in the trigger assembly while retaining a slip fit
into the weapon lower receiver. Both pins are Nickel-Teflon
coated.
• Pull weight is above the U.S. Military minimum pull
weight of 5.5lbs but does not reach near the upper limit of
9.5lbs. Generally, the pull weight is about 6.0lbs.
2. Advantages for the Armorer
• The ALG Defense ACT trigger is an enhanced
standard trigger so maintenance and installation procedures
are unchanged.
• Trigger assembly parts may be interchanged between
triggers, there are no matched sets.
• As a trigger meeting the essential U.S. Military
trigger specifications for the M4 Carbine, the ALG Defense
ACT can be substituted for lower performing stock triggers
while still staying in compliance with Unit or Departmental
requirements.
Note about HardLubing:
HardLubing is ALG's term for electroless Nickel plating with
an integral modifier to the base nickel plate. Either Boron
or Teflon is used to enhance surface hardness, wear
resistance and corrosion resistance and also create
favorable tribological properties of the trigger components.
Testing has shown that differential coating of the
trigger parts contributes to the sharpness of the ACT's
single stage pull. The trigger component is plated with
Nickel-Boron which has a high surface hardness combined
with excellent wear resistance. The color is a pleasing
matte light grey that may be painted on non-functional
surfaces if the shooter so desires (such as the trigger bow
that is visible outside the lower receiver). The hammer,
disconnector and trigger/hammer pins are plated with
Nickel-Teflon which combines a low coefficient of friction
with good wear resistance. The Teflon impregnation colors
the metal a mottled, greyish/green. Parts coated with
Nickel-Teflon cannot be painted. Both coatings are highly
corrosion resistant eliminating the oil seal of traditional
phosphated firearm components.
Retail Price: $65
I bought 5 QMS and 5 ACT triggers. I've installed and fired all 5 of the QMS. Not impressed with the pull weight or creep. But for $45... yeah.
Of the two ACT triggers I installed, both have significantly less creep, smoother, and a lighter pull than the QMS. The triggers don't break like glass though, more of a decreasing pressure feel right before the trigger breaks.
Maybe in time the creep will completely dissapear, we shall see.
Follow up: After a few range sessions, the creep is non existent!
Sorry to bring this one back from the dead.
I just got my ACT trigger in and I am also a little disappointed. It has just about the same feel as my standard triggers. I tried it with the springs it comes with and some of the yellow JP springs. My lightly wet stoned/polished GI trigger has zero creep, this is kinda what I was expecting the ACT to feel like.
Has anyone tried using a set screw to get rid of the creep? I may have to give that a try.
CarlosDJackal
07-04-12, 19:42
I took my ACT Trigger out of my assembled rifle (Aero Precision receiver) and reinstalled my LWRCI Enhanced Trigger Group. At first I had high hopes because it measured a trigger pull that is a half pound lighter than the other one.
Unfortunately, I ran into an issue with the ACT trigger in all the receivers I installed it on. When the BCG is locked to the rear, I am unable to move the safety to SAFE. I find this a bit disconcerning because it indicates something that is out of spec.
I plan on calling ALG Defense about this to see if I can get a replacement.
I took my ACT Trigger out of my assembled rifle (Aero Precision receiver) and reinstalled my LWRCI Enhanced Trigger Group. At first I had high hopes because it measured a trigger pull that is a half pound lighter than the other one.
Unfortunately, I ran into an issue with the ACT trigger in all the receivers I installed it on. When the BCG is locked to the rear, I am unable to move the safety to SAFE. I find this a bit disconcerning because it indicates something that is out of spec.
I plan on calling ALG Defense about this to see if I can get a replacement.
I had the same problem. They told me my 'receiver is out of spec'. This was after I had explained that the problem exists when the trigger was installed in all of four different receivers I tried it in. I got another ACT trigger from them and tried it...maybe slightly better, but still a ton of binding when trying to move the selector to the safe position with bolt locked back. And on top of that, that second trigger had a TON of creep. Honestly, the triggers in my DD and PSA parts kits are as good or better than the ACT triggers I tried (in terms of the trigger pull).
Even though ALG didn't stand behind their product, I have to hand it to PSA for doing so (by taking the trigger back for a refund) even though their policy says problems need to be handled by the manufacturer.
ETA: To be fair, after the 'replacement' trigger didn't work, I sent a fairly direct email to let them know that I was pretty much done wasting time on it. At that point I got an email from Mr. Geissele himself asking to call to talk to him. I did not because I truly was done wasting time and money on this thing. Maybe Mr. G would have done something...I don't know.
ForTehNguyen
07-05-12, 09:17
Sorry to bring this one back from the dead.
I just got my ACT trigger in and I am also a little disappointed. It has just about the same feel as my standard triggers. I tried it with the springs it comes with and some of the yellow JP springs. My lightly wet stoned/polished GI trigger has zero creep, this is kinda what I was expecting the ACT to feel like.
Has anyone tried using a set screw to get rid of the creep? I may have to give that a try.
There is always the chance that a random mil spec trigger out there may feel better than an ACT. Milspec requires trigger weights to be between 5.5# and 9# to be acceptable. So it is total luck of what you get within that margin. I have about 7 ARs and most have been changed out to QMS triggers. There is one AR i didnt change because the trigger weight is 5.75# with a very clean break. ACT triggers usually are around 6-6.25# but they are all consistent with other ACT triggers. Now with my other ARs I had some real nasty gritty 7#+ triggers which is why they were changed out. Remember it is complete luck with what you get with the run of the mill milspec trigger, but there is always the chance you will get a really nice milspec.
BrigandTwoFour
07-05-12, 10:24
FWIW, I replaced the ACT in my "wife's" AR with a donor SSA from another AR (which received a SD-E). The ACT sits in the spare parts drawer, next to the original BCM trigger.
If you already have a fantastic feeling standard trigger, I don't see much benefit in replacing it with the ACT. The way I look at it, the ACT is designed to be more consistent from item to item. It could range anywhere from much better than standard, to marginally, to not at all better- but at least the ACT should be a known quantity, just like the SSA or other G products.
At $65 for just the trigger set I think instead it's better to buy Grant's LPK or maybe a DD, LMT or Stag. (Definitely not Del-Ton or DPMS!)
I've gone through about seven LPKs now and the best milspec triggers ended up in my three ARs. I kept one LPK as a spare and sold the other three at a reasonable price. In the end it worked out with triggers about as good as you can expect and no doubt cheaper than buying three ACT trigger units.
I also clearly state on video that a USGI trigger tends to get better with use and clearly state how much use I feel each of the tested triggers had on them.
Given your experience with these, I assume you'd consider it a waste to replace a decent GI trigger with one, but I'm wondering how you feel the ACT works value wise for somebody assembling a lower with a choice between the GI trigger, or upgrading to the ACT?
I will just update that this trigger has just over 2500 rounds on it. In reality this isn't that many rounds for my normal shooting habits but quite frankly this rifle lost my interest a bit, partially due to my lack luster results with the trigger but mostly because of my latest Noveske built rifle that has taken more of my attention. For those that think I do not like Geissele triggers, my latest Noveske build also sports a Geissele S3G, so I am far from a hater.
Now for the ACT. The trigger feels exactly the same after 2500+ rounds on it as it did on round number 1. A nice pull in the 6 - 6.5lb range with no take up and no creep. A good clean break with a positive reset. This consistency might be good or bad depending on your take. I will say that most USGI trigger's improve with use. Some people who shoot very high round counts will get their trigger to that point quickly while others who might only shoot a couple hundred rounds a year might take them some time. I also feel that due to the "hard lube" process may be what is keeping the trigger consistent as new. In other words it isn't getting better just staying consistent to what it was new. More time and more rounds may change this.
I will also note again that most people who install a USGI trigger would greatly benefit from proper lubrication of the trigger when installing it. Funny how some people will install a USGI trigger pretty much dry but will install a Geissele per instruction greased and lubed properly. It almost always makes a difference in a USGI trigger to grease / lube it properly.
Given your experience with these, I assume you'd consider it a waste to replace a decent GI trigger with one, but I'm wondering how you feel the ACT works value wise for somebody assembling a lower with a choice between the GI trigger, or upgrading to the ACT?Since I tend to be long winded, in short I cannot see myself buying more of these particular triggers.
I hate to call it a waste. Different people have different experiences / frames of reference for what they consider acceptable improvements per cost etc.. Having said that, I have numerous USGI triggers that range from new to various degrees of use on them that I definitely consider to be a nicer trigger. So for myself and my situation with these triggers, I would not replace them for the cost of the ACT. I would not be gaining any benefit at the price of the trigger. I cannot see any benefits that a new ACT trigger would bring to the table over a used USGI trigger. It would have to be one pretty shot trigger and I am not talking spring replacements but a worn out trigger itself.
I really hate knocking on this trigger as it does everything the manufacturer suggests and I get a lot of heat from die hard supporters, but I will continue to give my honest thoughts no matter who I piss off. So, if I manipulate the ACT trigger in the manner that I run most USGI triggers, up close and fast, where I pull all the way through the trigger quickly, I find little or really no difference even in some of my USGI that are not quite as good. Now if I take a slow pull as in a precision rifle type pull I can tell a difference. My performance doesn't seem to suffer perhaps due to my experience shooting, but this is not a precision trigger and I do not put them on precision rifles.
I tend to buy quality from the start. If you buy a quality USGI trigger or lower parts kit from a quality manufacturer, I personally would have a hard time adding on the cost of the ACT. Someone who has more disposable cash than I might feel differently. Quite honestly, I am not hurting for money over triggers, and even if I fell into the disposable cash category, I would not go the ACT route. I would either stick with the standard USGI from a quality manufacturer or I would step up and pay the extra for one of the higher offerings from Geissele. Now if you are forced to keep a USGI trigger and you have an absolutely crap USGI, then I might switch it for an ACT. But those forced to keep a USGI might not cut it with the ACT due to the color difference. Some agencies etc, will not accept to difference in looks. Stupid but true.
In reality, I love the rifle that I installed the ACT trigger in. This rifle had a better USGI trigger to start with and I plan on swapping the original USGI trigger back into this rifle and putting the ACT into a different rifle with a poorer USGI trigger. Hope this helps.
I put one in my latest build. Shot it this week. I think this product will fill a niche. It's better than what's in a lower parts kit, But alot less money than a two stage. In a SHTF gun this a go to trigger.
ForTehNguyen
07-06-12, 07:33
Given your experience with these, I assume you'd consider it a waste to replace a decent GI trigger with one, but I'm wondering how you feel the ACT works value wise for somebody assembling a lower with a choice between the GI trigger, or upgrading to the ACT?
after buying about 6 of these, my advice is get your hands on a trigger weight scale and measure all your ARs. Replace the biggest offenders. I probably only really needed about 4 QMS triggers but oh well.
At $65 for just the trigger set I think instead it's better to buy Grant's LPK or maybe a DD, LMT or Stag. (Definitely not Del-Ton or DPMS!)
I've gone through about seven LPKs now and the best milspec triggers ended up in my three ARs. I kept one LPK as a spare and sold the other three at a reasonable price. In the end it worked out with triggers about as good as you can expect and no doubt cheaper than buying three ACT trigger units.
Grant is going to only offer the ALG QMS's in his LPK's from now on. Why? They are consistent where as you can get a fantastic FCG from us or one that is just so so. So for us, the added $5 is worth it.
C4
Grant is going to only offer the ALG QMS's in his LPK's from now on. Why? They are consistent where as you can get a fantastic FCG from us or one that is just so so. So for us, the added $5 is worth it.
C4
Aren't you Grant? Or does Grant refer to himself in third person?
Aren't you Grant? Or does Grant refer to himself in third person?
Yes, I referred to myself in the third person (was a joke). :D
C4
I would tend to agree that paying a few more dollars on a lower parts kit that included say a QMS to ensure a better trigger would be worth the cost. However I would not be inclined to spend another $60 on top of a quality LPK just to replace the included USGI trigger with an ACT.
Everyone may have a different preference / opinion and this is only mine.
I will say that I was very much left unimpressed with the trigger.
Same here. I bought one and put it into Papabear's range beater AR. The thing looks like a two stage when you watch your finger break the shot. It's got a LOT of creep.
We shot it one session and Papabear ordered an SSA Geissle to replace it.
saddlerocker
07-06-12, 18:46
I finally got my lower back from Ident (6weeks) so I installed my ACT.
Im happy to say I can engage the safety with the bolt locked back, although it is not crisp. It almost wants to stop in between safe and fire, and I have to push it all the way to safe. Im used to it snapping into position.
It might smooth out over time, im just happy I can engage the safety.
I am however a little disappointed in the creep or take-up before the break.
The break is crisp and lighter than other standard triggers, but there is noticeable creep/take-up (whatever its called)
I might try a QMS down the road, but I dont think another ACT is in my future.
after buying about 6 of these, my advice is get your hands on a trigger weight scale and measure all your ARs. Replace the biggest offenders. I probably only really needed about 4 QMS triggers but oh well.
Reasonable advice for folks with multiple spec lowers - I was fishing for that sort of general advice from the OP.
I'm the sort of asshole who has GSSA's in every lower, and I haven't looked back. I was previously worried that the ACT would prove to be a smarter trigger in SBR/nonMagnified optic uppers, but this is the 4th such review that has me convinced to just stick with the FCG's I've got.
Littlelebowski
07-07-12, 12:50
Nice to see an unbiased, non schill review, Surf. Please keep it up.
Since I am new to the forums, I'll just say that I am in the middle of a build. But the lower is completed.
Purchased a JP LPK with no trigger, ALG ACT, JP 3-3.5lb trigger spring kit. Also used Slipstream for lube, and lubed all the correct spots. The trigger is smooth as butter. Very consistent in a slow trigger pull. But my only fear is that the spring kit might cause the hammer to be a little light on the strike. But other than that, I am scratching my head when reading about the creep. Guess I got lucky.
I'm bumping this old one to report that the very trigger I was so disappointed in has finally settled in to be a really nice trigger.
It was sidelined for a while and then started getting a bit of use in my Suppressed SBR. Now the thing is as smooth as glass. Probably still a 6 lb pull... but that creep and 2 stage feel is all gone.
How many rounds did it take to get there?
How many rounds did it take to get there?
I really don't know. I'd kinda written the thing off as a bad purchase. I'm guessing a few thousand. I sorta just noticed it in the last month. I've been able to fire the gun fast on short range steel a lot better than some of my newer GI triggers.
Obscenejesster
05-05-14, 20:19
I ended up throwing some JP springs on an ALG QMS and got the pull down to 5 pounds even. I used the enhanced reliability springs in fear of light strikes with the Yellow JP springs.
They made a good trigger even better.
I'm quite happy with mine. It's no SSA-Ep, but for a third of the price I consider it a good investment.
I really don't know. I'd kinda written the thing off as a bad purchase. I'm guessing a few thousand. I sorta just noticed it in the last month. I've been able to fire the gun fast on short range steel a lot better than some of my newer GI triggers.
Same thing here Mark. After thousands of dry/live fire the ACT has become an extremely smooth and clean breaking trigger. Mine still has a slight two stage feel but with zero creep. I remember having a conversation on here a couple of years ago about the ACT not really getting any better because of the finish on the components is so hard. Well I can say it does. Ive had that trigger for 2 years and started noticing the same thing Mark said about 6 months ago. My other rifle has an SD-C and I honestly like the ACT just as much now. Different app triggers I know but I absolutely love a clean breaking/smooth mil spec trigger with its hard reset.
-Jax
Yeah... I'm not one to ship stuff back if I can avoid it. So I was just powering through this damned trigger on my beater AR. I tossed a bunch of stuff into this beater and it ends up being one of my most often shot guns.....
I even upgraded to a KMR rail on the thing.
Yeah... I'm not one to ship stuff back if I can avoid it. So I was just powering through this damned trigger on my beater AR. I tossed a bunch of stuff into this beater and it ends up being one of my most often shot guns.....
I even upgraded to a KMR rail on the thing.
(Ducks) Looks for Lightning Strikes!
Interesting read back down memory lane. I had 2 ACT triggers as I had decided to try a second one "just in case". I had similar consistent but lack luster results. Again I must own at the minimum of 10 Geissele triggers, but no longer have the ACT triggers. Yes I did try JP spring combos also, just because. The last ACT just got sold as a complete lower to a friend who is happy with it, but not "wow struck" by the ACT. I do still have numerous stock USGI triggers that were seen in the original video's (which are no longer available). I noticed no appreciable difference in the triggers over time, but those rifles did not get shot nearly as much as many other rifles so I cannot give round count results past around the 5K or so round count. Quite frankly the ACT triggers became pretty "ho-hum" as far as I was concerned and I hadn't put much thought about that them since. I am glad however that they are showing great results for others as they were consistent and predictable USGI type triggers.
I'm impressed with the ACT AGL trigger on my BCM HSP carbine. It's very smooth, with a nice re-set to it.
It's a nice improvement from the trigger in my old M&P15T.
A trigger really has to be bad to bother me on an AR. When testing ammo/shooting groups I really notice it, but I don't mind a little creep for banging steel.
Obscenejesster
05-07-14, 12:26
I have heard many people say they thought the QMS felt better than the ACT. Maybe it has something to do with the coating.
I have heard many people say they thought the QMS felt better than the ACT. Maybe it has something to do with the coating.
I think so.
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