Building a .308

[traceurcolin]

Hey everyone, I'm looking into trying my hand for the first time at building a rifle. So far I own a Rock River Elite Operator 2 (I know everyone here hates them but that's not the point) but I'd like a new rifle in a .308, I was looking to stay hopefully under $2000 (pre-optic) and I know nothing about the different manufacturers, what to look for and what to stay away from. Any sort of info would be greatly appreciated.

-Colin

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

buy a good optic and a cheep rifle to start 75% optic 25% rifle. Then after you shoot the hell out of it! you can think about upgrading it to what your looking for. Trust me I have been down this road you need a good optic first.


A savage rifle is a good start with lots of aftermarket parts to be had and the prices are lower than a rem 700 to do any custom work on them.

[traceurcolin]

buy a good optic and a cheep rifle to start 75% optic 25% rifle. Then after you shoot the hell out of it! you can think about upgrading it to what your looking for. Trust me I have been down this road you need a good optic first.


A savage rifle is a good start with lots of aftermarket parts to be had and the prices are lower than a rem 700 to do any custom work on them.

I've got a few scopes I'm going to try out. I was looking into getting a semi auto, but I do love my Rem 700. Thank you for the feedback though it's much appreciated

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

I've got a few scopes I'm going to try out. I was looking into getting a semi auto, but I do love my Rem 700. Thank you for the feedback though it's much appreciated

Oh my bad. So your going to build one then. Check out the MEGA machine monolythic upper.

[caelumatra]

I posted this yesterday in another thread here, but here it is again.


This is what I used

Buffer spring (http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/ARMEA1095.aspx)
Buffer (http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/ARMEC0120.aspx)
RE (http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/VLRE-10A5SR.aspx)
RE nut (http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/ARMEC0053A.aspx)
Stock (http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/MAG400-BLK.aspx)
Cheek riser...thing (http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-risr-reciprocating-inline-stock-riser) this is a pretty neat attachment. It shows on the website it installing into the CTR but I put it on my MOE no problem. Plus it came with Dillo Dust and it was AWESOME!
LPK (http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/DD-05-013-21007.aspx) I discarded the pistol grip as I hate it and put a tango down in its place. Without using the pistol grip and MOE bottom part (the name escapes me) you could probably get a custom LPK from G&R with only the parts you need
Upper/lower (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2200) uses dpms thread patter for the rail and I managed to catch it on sale last Christmas for $499
BCG (http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/ARM10501001.aspx)
Charging handle (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUNFIGHTER-Charging-Handle-GFH-Mod-4-7-62mm-p/bcm%20gfh%20mod%204%20762.htm)
Rail (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2497) you'll have to check what your upper high is. there is a diagram there that will tell you what the dimensions should be for the low vs the high
Comp (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2211) personal preference
Barrel (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1840)


I had Marvin Pitts from Nefarious Arms dimple my barrel and assemble my upper. He assembled it for $20 which was way cheaper than the different tools needed to assemble an AR308 upper as opposed to an AR15 barrel which I already have the tools.

[traceurcolin]

I posted this yesterday in another thread here, but here it is again.




I had Marvin Pitts from Nefarious Arms dimple my barrel and assemble my upper. He assembled it for $20 which was way cheaper than the different tools needed to assemble an AR308 upper as opposed to an AR15 barrel which I already have the tools.

I really like that set up i just personally would prefer a quad rail any suggestions on a good one? On another note, does anyone know if the magpul UBR stock would work with that upper/lower combo? cause I'd really like to use that. Or does anyone have any opinions on the UBR stock? good bad or otherwise?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I posted this yesterday in another thread here, but here it is again.




I had Marvin Pitts from Nefarious Arms dimple my barrel and assemble my upper. He assembled it for $20 which was way cheaper than the different tools needed to assemble an AR308 upper as opposed to an AR15 barrel which I already have the tools.

What is your total cost for the build, excluding dimpling?

Mark

[caelumatra]

I really like that set up i just personally would prefer a quad rail any suggestions on a good one? On another note, does anyone know if the magpul UBR stock would work with that upper/lower combo? cause I'd really like to use that. Or does anyone have any opinions on the UBR stock? good bad or otherwise?

I was trying to keep it light so I'm not real sure. I really like the setup of the troy over the SWS quad rail I have on my AR15. The added weight for the whole rail in that system, while superb quality, is wasted on the attachments I use on the rifle...which are super minimal. That's why I went the troy route. I look at the AR15 as a fighting rifle and the $343 worth of SWS rail would have been better spent on a $35 MOE midlength (which wasn't out at the time is what I tell myself lol) and $310 worth of ammo.
So for my 308 build I went with a solid, cheaper, free float that was light, and versatile. I seriously couldn't believe how much lighter this 12" 308 rail was vs the 9" 556 quad rail was.
The Mega monolithic upper is now out. It was not when I purchased my setup. So you may want to check that out.

The UBR, from all claims, is possibly, besides the weight, the best stock there is. But this is not from personal experience. I've not used one. I do believe though if you want to use a UBR you need the Slash buffer.
You do NOT need the slash buffer if you use an AR10 receiver extension. You just need the Armalite suggested H3 buffer. The Slash buffer is specifically used for standard AR15 REs with an ar308 BCG. The AR308 RE is...maybe half an inch longer than an AR15 RE. The slash buffer is therefore, around half an inch short than the H3 buffer used in the AR308 system.

Slash buffer (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1346) $95
Ar308 buffer (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2638) $28

I'm sure you can see why I went with the standard ar308 buffer and the Vltor RE. You will NOT be able to collapse the stock all the way with the Vltor RE. But...the difference is that half an inch. If a half and inch of collapsability is worth $73 to you, more power to you. But it's not to me ;)


What is your total cost for the build, excluding dimpling?

Mark

I just added up everything from the links above and it comes to $2064.16 + shipping and transfer of course. You can get almost everything from DSG and Rainier and then just shop around for the cheapest upper/lower.

Looking up my own order histories, I ordered my last part March 26 of last year, and that brought the total up to 1960 +/- Oh plus the RISR was like $55 I think. Just checked, its $60 now.
So, barely over 2k for mine. But that's with mil discounts at DSG and Rainier who I order from almost exclusively. The Larue site says it goes on the CTR stock and they package it that way too, but it works fine on my MOE.

The dimpling cost $250 + $20 assembly if you're wondering. A fellow Fallujah Marine's dad works at a machine shop and offered to do it for less until I showed him a picture and he said "Nope. Can't do it cheaper" lol

[traceurcolin]

So what exactly does dimpling the barrel do? and I'm torn between the UBR and the PRS stocks. Whats your guy's opinions either between the two or a different stock you would recommend?

-Colin

[robbf213]

So what exactly does dimpling the barrel do? and I'm torn between the UBR and the PRS stocks. Whats your guy's opinions either between the two or a different stock you would recommend?

-Colin

This, on Noveske N6

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i227/robbfurlow/6ebc9386.jpg

[traceurcolin]

okay, but why the ubr over the prs?

-colin

[caelumatra]

So what exactly does dimpling the barrel do? and I'm torn between the UBR and the PRS stocks. Whats your guy's opinions either between the two or a different stock you would recommend?

-Colin

Well, dimpling for me was to reduce weight. There are those that say it increases rigidity or something, but I'm not smart enough to decipher the wealth of misinformation on this thing we call the internet. I did it for weight savings, and an added bonus that it looks pretty cool. It shaved around somewhere between 0,5 pounds and 0.8 pounds. The pictures I took of my scale before and after are.....somewhere else. So I can't recall the exact number

Marvin Pitts did my work and I was very pleased with the result. It cost me $250 for an 18" barrel and I asked him to leave Noveskes iron cross emblem on the end of the barrel and he did not dimple that section as requested. He also assembled the whole upper and checked it against the BCG I sent him for $20. The different tools for a 308 build vs a 556 build are more than that so it was an easy decision to have him assemble it.
ADCO does dimpling as well, but for whatever reason a year ago, I went with Marvin. I want to say ADCO's pattern was different then, but I can't remember exactly.


To the PRS. I do not have a UBR so I cannot say if its good or bad. From all accounts its amazing but sort of heavy. I've never even seen one in person. I do however own a 308 PRS. The difference being the cheek riser part is, either further back, or is a short piece to allow for the longer pull of the 308 charging handle over the 556. It uses a standard AR15 rifle receiver extension, this buffer (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1911), and this spring (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1727). If you notice in my list, I did not mention having a PRS and that is for one reason and one reason only. WEIGHT! That ****ing thing is HEAVY! When my lower was assembled with the PRS the lower alone weighed over 5 pounds! With the MOE and RISR the whole gun weighs under 10lbs (again, exact weight in pictures I cant locate ATM)

I have read that the UBR is heavy as well. But IMO, without ever actually using it, it seems to offer more versatility over a PRS. Much like any collapsible over standard A2 stock. No most people dont even shoot with the stock collapsed all the way, but its the versatility and the availability to choose how you get into the gun. You're not locked into one set thing.

But I'm cheap, and now, sort of broke, going through a furlough at work. So I have this PRS in a box, never fired and only screwed into the gun once lol. MOE with the RISR is a great substitute for the brick the PRS is. But, then again, I never even shot with the PRS, so it may be lovely

Shrug. Personal preference I suppose.

[caelumatra]

What is your total cost for the build, excluding dimpling?

Mark

If you're looking at doing this, I only have one thing to suggest.

Get a longer rail. The location in which you would mount the rail attachment for a bopid will touch the gas block on the Noveske barrel and getting a longer rail will alleviate this problem.

There is a solution and Todd K has posted it more than once, even specifically in response to me asking, but I cant remember what it was. There is a thread about it from around a year ago showing a diagram of what is going on in the rail, but I'm sure you can see where that would be a conflict and then negating the benefits of free float when its negated by constant contact towards the end of the barrel

[traceurcolin]

So just looking over all the parts, what exactly is that RE nut for? Doesn't the buffer tube already tighten into the lower? And i swapped to the armalite a2 buffer tube rather than an adjustable cause im using the PRS stock.

[caelumatra]

You only need an RE nut if you're using a collapsible stock RE. There is a screw you have to screw into the back of the PRS to screw the stock to the RE. There is a nub on the receiver end of the PRS that goes in to a pocket on the lower receiver to keep the stock from rotating. The inward tension from the rear screw and the nub in its pocket at the front keep the stock from being able to unscrew itself.

So the order of installation for a PRS is this:

Screw the receiver extension in to place, remembering to also have the buffer retaining pin and spring in place and depressed
Slide on the PRS (which is a tight fit, so it slides with moderate difficulty) and line it up by pushing the nub on the stock into the pocket in the receiver
Screw the PRS into the RE by way of a screw at the top back end of the PRS


By doing step 3 the stock cant back off the RE. Therefore keeping the nub in the pocket and not allowing any rotation of the stock.

Just laying it all out there. You may know this, you may not. But now you do for sure. There are only 3 parts needed for the installation of a rifle length stock. The RE, the stock, and the screw.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=44528/Product/PRS-AR15-M16-308-AR-STOCK-KITS
(disregard that weird buffer)

The screw serves a similar purpose as the RE nut does for collapsible stocks. It doesnt allow the RE to rotate out of the receiver. The RE nut screws in to hold the RE end plate in place which, for a collapsible stock, has the "nub" to fit in the pocket.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=20464/Product/AR-15-CAR-15-RECEIVER-END-PLATE



TLDR: You dont need a RE nut for a PRS

[Pappabear]

You could find an LMT MWS USED for around 2K. Then all your problems are solved. I wouldn't try to build for a little cheaper when you could get top tier for pennies more.

Philip