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skyugo
12-31-07, 12:59
i'm doing this shiz manually with the lee setup. :mad: it takes twice as long as any other reloading operation.

i'd like to keep the cost down somewhat, but if there's something really great out there that's worth the cash, i'd like to at least hear about it.

thmpr
12-31-07, 16:05
The giraud trimmer is thee best trimmer out there. It is a bit pricey but well worth it! I have 2 units which one of it is dedicated for 223 only.

skyugo
12-31-07, 16:18
that's one serious looking trimmer.

i was hoping to spend more like 100 bucks though.

my entire reloading setup as of right now cost me about 70 bucks. :o

jmart
12-31-07, 16:25
What kind of press do you have and how do you process your cases? That will help frame the answer.

skyugo
12-31-07, 16:58
What kind of press do you have and how do you process your cases? That will help frame the answer.

i have a lee single stage press :eek:
i use a lee full length resizing die.


at the moment the biggest (or should i say smallest) bottle neck in my production is trimming cases. :mad:

Redhat
12-31-07, 17:56
The Giraud for mass production, but if you don't want to spend the $'s I use a L.E. Wilson. Very accurate, but not too costly. It is made for precision not speed though. Have you tried putting you Lee trimmer in an electric drill? That might speed you up a little.:)

skyugo
12-31-07, 18:06
The Giraud for mass production, but if you don't want to spend the $'s I use a L.E. Wilson. Very accurate, but not too costly. It is made for precision not speed though. Have you tried putting you Lee trimmer in an electric drill? That might speed you up a little.:)

i have... i'm hoping for something that i can put a case in/out of a little faster.

jmart
12-31-07, 19:08
i have a lee single stage press :eek:
i use a lee full length resizing die.


at the moment the biggest (or should i say smallest) bottle neck in my production is trimming cases. :mad:

If you think you are going to stay with this type of press, then I would recommend either a Giraud or a Gracey. The Giraud has the better motor.

If you think you are going to upgrade to a progressive (i.e., Dillon), then I would hold off on getting a trimmer at this time and save your pennies for the press and use it with the Dillon trimmer/trim die combo. Set up dedicated toolheads, one for case prep, the other for charging/seating/crimping. And even if you decide to get a Gracey or Giraud now, and you end up getting a Dillon later, I'd still recommend using two toolheads, one for sizing and the other for charging/seating/crimping. The reason being, you won't want to have to remove your just-resized case from the shellplate and run it through the trimmer and then reinsert in the shellplate for follow-on operations. With progressives, it's about developing a rhythm and keeping things flowing -- the rule is minimize interruptions in processes.

You could go with the Dilllon trimmer now but you'll be pulling the handle quite a few times to get to loaded rounds using a SS. With my Dillon I use the trimmer/trim die in station #1, station #2 is empty, and then I run the trimmed case through a resizer in station #3. This brings the neck back up to my desired inside diameter (the trim die squeezes them down a couple extra thousandths). Station #4 is empty. Afterwards cases are tumbled to remove lube and knock off any remaining burrs. The Dillon trimmer uses a carbide blade that spins at 6,000 rpm and it makes a very clean cut. I don't bother chamfering and deburring my cases afterwards unless one really needs it and I do this when I load them up after doing a quick visual on it before inserting them in the shellplate. But 99% are GTG w/o any extra chamfer/deburring.

The Dillon is loud though. I wear earmuffs when using it, so if you are in an apartment, you won't make any friends with your significant other or neighbors. You also have to occasionally give it a vacuum shot to clear the shavings. It comes with a ShopVac housing attachment, but you know how loud Shopvacs are. Some guys run the Vac full-time, I just give it an occasional shot every 30 cases or so.

Hope this helps.

toddackerman
01-01-08, 11:35
I agree with Jmart on all points. The Giraud costs more than a progressive press, and I don't know of any other trimmers that are "Quick" to get the case in and out of them.

I'm saving up for the Dillon Case Trimmer for $200 (plus die).

Buck
01-01-08, 13:26
I also use a Dillon case trimmer and I have been very happy with it... IMHO they also have the best warranty ever, they are kind of like craftsman tools in that regard...

jmart
01-01-08, 13:55
Dillon's warranty on their presses is fabulous. But their trimmer motor is only warrantied for one year. I believe all electrical components Dillon sells (scales, tumblers, trimmer motors) are warrantied for one year, which is pretty standard within the industry.

markm
01-02-08, 09:32
Here is my solution...

I DON'T TRIM CASES. PERIOD. Just take a look at Black Hills Blue Box ammo. Put one of those blue box rounds in a head space guage an see how long the brass is.:eek: They must have some really sticky expander balls, man! Anyway... all those hundreds of thousands of blue box rounds with long brass, and you never hear of one problem with the ammo.

Most of the time I can get 3 loadings through a case without it being significantly out of length spec like BH Blue box... no problem. And even the few cases that are slightly long get a factory crimp. After the third loading the primer pocket is getting a little looser than I like, so that's it for the case anyway.

If you insist on getting 7 loadings out of every case you have, get the giraud.

skyugo
01-02-08, 16:08
Here is my solution...

I DON'T TRIM CASES. PERIOD. Just take a look at Black Hills Blue Box ammo. Put one of those blue box rounds in a head space guage an see how long the brass is.:eek: They must have some really sticky expander balls, man! Anyway... all those hundreds of thousands of blue box rounds with long brass, and you never hear of one problem with the ammo.

Most of the time I can get 3 loadings through a case without it being significantly out of length spec like BH Blue box... no problem. And even the few cases that are slightly long get a factory crimp. After the third loading the primer pocket is getting a little looser than I like, so that's it for the case anyway.

If you insist on getting 7 loadings out of every case you have, get the giraud.


holy crap. :eek: isn't that some kind of sin?


actually i've been noticing that if i seat bullets to the canalure the OAL is rather short..... hmmmmmm

you sir, may have saved the day.

taliv
01-02-08, 21:33
going to have to toss a dissenting opinion in here...

I get about 2 firings out of my 223rem brass before it will consistently no longer go into battery on a 223rem chamber. and when it sticks, it is a PITA to remove. however, it feeds through wylde and 5.56 chambers just fine.

after 3-4 firings, it's long enough that i'm nervous enough about it sticking in the wylde and 5.56 chambers to trim. I haven't actually stuck one though.

Considering the popularity of Ned's chamber reamer for 5.56 chambers that "aren't", I'd recommend erring on the side of caution here. At the very least, run a hundred or so though the chamber before you make up a batch of thousands. AND DO NOT ASSUME THAT BECAUSE IT RUNS IN YOUR GUN IT WILL ALSO WORK IN YOUR FRIEND'S.

If you are unlucky enough to have a Les Baer AR15 (chamber dimensions closer to 22LR than 5.56*) plan on trimming after every firing.


oh, and I also use the giraud trimmer. it rocks. worth every penny.


*only a slight exaggeration

markm
01-03-08, 08:02
going to have to toss a dissenting opinion in here...

I get about 2 firings out of my 223rem brass before it will consistently no longer go into battery on a 223rem chamber. and when it sticks, it is a PITA to remove. however, it feeds through wylde and 5.56 chambers just fine.


Dig it! I guess I was assuming 5.56 chamber practice ammo since we're on M4carbine.net/;)

skyugo
01-03-08, 17:46
i had a couple sticky rounds today. i'm wondering if i need to simply lower my resizing die in my press. :confused:

this is with trimmed cases mind you.

jmart
01-03-08, 18:33
i had a couple sticky rounds today. i'm wondering if i need to simply lower my resizing die in my press. :confused:

this is with trimmed cases mind you.


Sticky in your die? Sticky in your chamber? I'm not following....

markm
01-03-08, 20:11
i had a couple sticky rounds today. i'm wondering if i need to simply lower my resizing die in my press. :confused:

this is with trimmed cases mind you.

Get a headspace guage, and follow it strictly. There is a very narrow window of acceptable headspacing that can't be negotiated with. I'd bet that you need your die turned down, but the headspace guage will remove all doubt.

skyugo
01-03-08, 20:56
Get a headspace guage, and follow it strictly. There is a very narrow window of acceptable headspacing that can't be negotiated with. I'd bet that you need your die turned down, but the headspace guage will remove all doubt.

yeah i think i've determined that i need to turn the die down a bit.

luckily i managed to break off the depriming insert in my lee die tonight :rolleyes:

i think i'm gonna have to re-re size a bunch of brass. :mad:

skyugo
01-03-08, 21:10
here's another dumb question..

can i resize primed brass? the primer remover broke out of my die. so it might actually work..... :confused:

taliv
01-03-08, 21:15
yes you can. if you remove the decapping pin, you will achieve the desired result. if you put the decapping pin back in, you will simply remove the live primers from the cases as you resize. that is not dangerous, just annoying, generally.

jmart
01-03-08, 22:10
here's another dumb question..

can i resize primed brass? the primer remover broke out of my die. so it might actually work..... :confused:


If you remove the decapper you'll also remove the expander ball with it. When you resize your cases, your necks will be pretty tight. After you get the die adjusted properly and resize the cases, I'd reinstall the decapping rod/exp ball and adjust the ball so it's up pretty high in the die and then run your cases back up over the ball to bring the necks back up to proper diameter.

I'm wondering how you broke a decapping pin on a Lee die? I've used these for years and if you accidentally insert a Berdan primed case or don't get the case fully in the SH, when the pin hits the casehead the rod slides up in the collet. I've never broken a pin on a Lee die.

taliv
01-03-08, 22:15
interesting, jmart. I didn't know lee dies were set up like that. The forster, rcbs, redding, wilson and hornady dies I have are all capable of removing the pin w/o removing the expander ball.

jmart
01-03-08, 23:17
Lee Expander (http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/parts/2172.jpg)

http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/parts/2172.jpg

skyugo
01-04-08, 20:19
If you remove the decapper you'll also remove the expander ball with it. When you resize your cases, your necks will be pretty tight. After you get the die adjusted properly and resize the cases, I'd reinstall the decapping rod/exp ball and adjust the ball so it's up pretty high in the die and then run your cases back up over the ball to bring the necks back up to proper diameter.

I'm wondering how you broke a decapping pin on a Lee die? I've used these for years and if you accidentally insert a Berdan primed case or don't get the case fully in the SH, when the pin hits the casehead the rod slides up in the collet. I've never broken a pin on a Lee die.

i had a little help from a hammer. :rolleyes: and a stuck case :mad:

i was in a fury yesterday. breaking nearly everything i touched.

not really an angry fury, that more dangerous semi-frustrated, semi-enlightened fury that those of use that dick around with mechanical stuff too often get in once in awhile.

the pin is a little out of true now (the whole pin.. not just the decapper part, which is now missing)

i ordered one of those RGB two die sets from cheaperthandirt along with some more 55 grain bullets and a sweet backpack.