View Full Version : Front sight focus???
I'm not really sure if this is a question or a bit of a rant, but here goes. Every firearms course I have attended the instructors say the same thing "front sight focus". The problem I have with this is that it is impossible to focus on your front sight and see a target well enough to hit it at the same time. This is due to the the fact that humans have two eyes. Its called binocular disparity and its the price we pay for being able to judge distance. If you focus on something close to you (3 or 4 feet) everything behind it will double because your eyes will essentially cross at that focal point. So why the hell are we still taught to focus on our front sight? A more accurate description of proper sighting would be to say "look at the target through your sights" instead of telling students to do something that by definition is impossible.
The other problem I have with "front sight focus" is that it is not realistic. In a life and death situation you will look at what is most important (the bad guy). This is called saliency determination, your brain will determine what is the "thing" that it needs to pay the most attention to and then give that thing the most attention. Think of it like this, if you slam your hand in a car door, what is the very first thing you will do? The first thing is you will look at your hand right, because your brain says "holy sh*t something is wrong here" and in order to determine what exactly is wrong you need to look at the problem. It is a natural response, something your body will do whether you want it to or not. So why are we trained to look at our front sight in a shooting? Our front sight is not trying to kill us, the bad guy is. Our brain is naturally going to look at the bad guy, so isn't that how we should train? After all shouldn't we train how we fight, and fight how we train?
Now before I get someone who does not understand what im saying jump on this and start screaming about "point shooting" let me say this. I am not advocating point shooting in any way. I do not believe in point shooting. IMO the term "point shooting" is thrown around far to often these days by people who do not really understand what they are talking about. But that is a topic for another post.
GeorgiaBoy
03-26-12, 08:18
It's harder to see small deviations in sight alignment without focusing on the sights. At least for me.
Failure2Stop
03-26-12, 08:34
How you focus on the sights is linked to your needed level of speed and precision, and changes based on platform.
It is, however, a huge advantage for users of optics to be able to target focus without a loss of accuracy.
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I don't know of anyone who is capable of shooting accurately who does anything other than focus on the front sight in order to do so. If you feel that you need to see both the front sight and the target in greater clarity, close one eye.
As Randy Cain says "what appears to be the center of a blur is the center of a blur."
As I stated before, if you focus on your front sight you will not see a blurry target, you will see 2 targets. (example) hold your finger out in front of you, stair at it, see it clearly. now notice everything behind it is doubled. If you put a hard focus on your sights the same thing will happen. This is a dificult concept to explain to good shooters, because good shooters have been doing it so long that there eyes automatically focus so that they have a hard focus on the target and a soft focus on there sights. So they think they are focusing on there sights but in fact they are not, they are focusing on the target.
Failure2Stop
03-26-12, 09:21
As I stated before, if you focus on your front sight you will not see a blurry target, you will see 2 targets. (example) hold your finger out in front of you, stair at it, see it clearly. now notice everything behind it is doubled. If you put a hard focus on your sights the same thing will happen. This is a dificult concept to explain to good shooters, because good shooters have been doing it so long that there eyes automatically focus so that they have a hard focus on the target and a soft focus on there sights. So they think they are focusing on there sights but in fact they are not, they are focusing on the target.
Close one eye.
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As I stated before, if you focus on your front sight you will not see a blurry target, you will see 2 targets. (example) hold your finger out in front of you, stair at it, see it clearly. now notice everything behind it is doubled. If you put a hard focus on your sights the same thing will happen. This is a dificult concept to explain to good shooters, because good shooters have been doing it so long that there eyes automatically focus so that they have a hard focus on the target and a soft focus on there sights. So they think they are focusing on there sights but in fact they are not, they are focusing on the target.
Nonsense.
all you have to know is which one is the correct one, and deal with it accordingly.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but only to put things in context, but who have you trained with and what is your level of experience/proficiency?
Close one eye.
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There ya go... Cheers.. Ron
Shadow1198
03-26-12, 13:42
I find that it helps to think of the fundamentals on a variable scale that is dictated by the target/shot. Up close hosing a large target at speed, my grip, sight focus, upper body tension, etc. are going to be a little different than shooting 25yd bulls. I'll still have a front sight focus whenever possible, but with varying degrees of clarity. Up close, easy target, my front sight focus will be "softer". I'll still be focusing on the front sight, but not so hard and not looking for that crystal clear sight picture. I'm seeing only what I need to see to make the shot. 25yd bulls, you're going to want a harder sight focus, going more for that crystal clear front sight picture. Using the sights maintains accountability for each shot. Everything else is basically variations on point shooting, which does nothing to maintain accountability.
The reason you want to use a front sight focus, wherever possible, is it is the only thing that gives you a consistent indication of where your shots are going. Anything else is a roll of the dice.
One trick I learned was blinking your non-dominant eye closed as you're obtaining your sight alignment/picture. This will momentarily let you see what you need to see in "mono", and what things actually look like in "stereo".
Nonsense.
all you have to know is which one is the correct one, and deal with it accordingly.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but only to put things in context, but who have you trained with and what is your level of experience/proficiency?
If I told you I was a grandmaster Delta/SEAL/Ranger super bad a** would that make a difference? I'm not trying to be disrespectful but in my experience when someone asks you your experience level its another way of saying "let whip our ding dongs out and measure". I am not interested in getting into a debate with anyone. I did not learn this from any teacher or school. I am simply questioning the conventional way of thinking.
David Thomas
03-26-12, 14:34
If I told you I was a grandmaster Delta/SEAL/Ranger super bad a** would that make a difference? I'm not trying to be disrespectful but in my experience when someone asks you your experience level its another way of saying "let whip our ding dongs out and measure". I am not interested in getting into a debate with anyone. I did not learn this from any teacher or school. I am simply questioning the conventional way of thinking.
Then go experiment on the range with nonconventional sighting, just don't shoot anyone. You are not going to figure out a better way by arguing on the net. Instead, experience things for yourself if you don't want to listen to conventional wisdom. If you truly want to learn take a class or at least shoot with someone better than you. Also read Brian Enos' book. He has a great section that describes the different types of focus he uses and details when and why each type is used.
Every firearms course I have attended the instructors say the same thing "front sight focus".
So, with whom you have trained?
If I told you I was a grandmaster Delta/SEAL/Ranger super bad a** would that make a difference? I'm not trying to be disrespectful but in my experience when someone asks you your experience level its another way of saying "let whip our ding dongs out and measure". I am not interested in getting into a debate with anyone. I did not learn this from any teacher or school. I am simply questioning the conventional way of thinking.
But you asked for it:
I'm not really sure if this is a question or a bit of a rant, but here goes. Every firearms course I have attended the instructors say the same thing "front sight focus". The problem I have with this is that it is impossible to focus on your front sight and see a target well enough to hit it at the same time. This is due to the the fact that humans have two eyes. Its called binocular disparity and its the price we pay for being able to judge distance. If you focus on something close to you (3 or 4 feet) everything behind it will double because your eyes will essentially cross at that focal point. So why the hell are we still taught to focus on our front sight? A more accurate description of proper sighting would be to say "look at the target through your sights" instead of telling students to do something that by definition is impossible.
I know of no one who has a serious issue with what you describe. Are your eyes battling each other for dominance?
I always go from soft focus on the target to hard focus on the front sight immediately prior to breaking the shot. I never have an issue with hitting the target accurately that way. If I miss, it's because I did something incorrectly in the process.
I still don't understand why this is relevant, but people I have trained with are numerous police and SWAT firearms instructors from the schools I have been to for my job. The reason that I brought up this topic is because I have experimented on the range and spoke with more Officers than I can count. And when I ask them what they focus on first they say front sight, but then after when I ask for specifics they say "well actually I look at the target and more through my sights, than focus on them". Then I thought about how I shoot, and how I had been shooting for the past 15 years. I realized that that's how I shoot too. I don't hard focus on my sights, I look at the target and bring my sights up in my line of sight. But my focus was always hard on the target, this is how I shoot at 10 yards all the way back to 50 yards (yes I practice at 50 yards with a handgun). Then I started to research how the eyes work, about binocular disparity and diplopia and how the the brain sorts that information.
I am well aware of all of the experts in the field, people that are far more experienced than I am, or will ever be, that teach "front sight focus", I am not questioning there experience or knowledge.
I am not here to argue or figure out a better way to shoot, and I don't need your sarcasm David. I am not some armchair warrior or someone who is pushing any type of agenda.
Glocktogo- that is my point, either a soft focus on the target, and a hard focus on sights or visa versa. But not just stair at the front sight.
Be Safe
I still don't understand why this is relevant, but people I have trained with are numerous police and SWAT firearms instructors from the schools I have been to for my job. The reason that I brought up this topic is because I have experimented on the range and spoke with more Officers than I can count. And when I ask them what they focus on first they say front sight, but then after when I ask for specifics they say "well actually I look at the target and more through my sights, than focus on them". Then I thought about how I shoot, and how I had been shooting for the past 15 years. I realized that that's how I shoot too. I don't hard focus on my sights, I look at the target and bring my sights up in my line of sight. But my focus was always hard on the target, this is how I shoot at 10 yards all the way back to 50 yards (yes I practice at 50 yards with a handgun). Then I started to research how the eyes work, about binocular disparity and diplopia and how the the brain sorts that information.
I am well aware of all of the experts in the field, people that are far more experienced than I am, or will ever be, that teach "front sight focus", I am not questioning there experience or knowledge.
I am not here to argue or figure out a better way to shoot, and I don't need your sarcasm David. I am not some armchair warrior or someone who is pushing any type of agenda.
Glocktogo- that is my point, either a soft focus on the target, and a hard focus on sights or visa versa. But not just stair at the front sight.
Be Safe
I know of no one that simply stares at the front sight while ignoring the target. Sight picture is worthless without sight alignment. It is very difficult to maintain front sight focus. Most shooters struggle to maintain it from time to time. Still, have you conducted any tests under controlled conditions to determine what your accuracy potential is at different ranges when using one vs. the other?
I still don't understand why this is relevant, but people I have trained with are numerous police and SWAT firearms instructors from the schools I have been to for my job. The reason that I brought up this topic is because I have experimented on the range and spoke with more Officers than I can count. And when I ask them what they focus on first they say front sight, but then after when I ask for specifics they say "well actually I look at the target and more through my sights, than focus on them". Then I thought about how I shoot, and how I had been shooting for the past 15 years. I realized that that's how I shoot too. I don't hard focus on my sights, I look at the target and bring my sights up in my line of sight. But my focus was always hard on the target, this is how I shoot at 10 yards all the way back to 50 yards (yes I practice at 50 yards with a handgun). Then I started to research how the eyes work, about binocular disparity and diplopia and how the the brain sorts that information.
I am well aware of all of the experts in the field, people that are far more experienced than I am, or will ever be, that teach "front sight focus", I am not questioning there experience or knowledge.
I am not here to argue or figure out a better way to shoot, and I don't need your sarcasm David. I am not some armchair warrior or someone who is pushing any type of agenda.
Glocktogo- that is my point, either a soft focus on the target, and a hard focus on sights or visa versa. But not just stair at the front sight.
Be Safe
What rubs me wrong about where you are coming from is that you have five posts and they are centered around an idea that you have accepted as true. You're not looking for debate or knowledge, you're just here to tell folks "how it is." on top of that you allude to your credentials but do not come right out and tell us what makes you so qualified or what, of any, your qualifications are. In my experience, people who do that do tend to be armchair ninjas. Because you shot with a couple of swat cops or 50 patrol officers (or whatever you said) means squat.
Front sight focus works fine for most folks. For sighted fire, it enhances speed and accuracy, particularily while transitioning between threats (as oppose to bringing the gun to te next threat and then lining up the sights in your secondary and tertiary vision).
Maybe your eyes are all jacked up, in which case, do what you you have to buy it sounds like it's your attitude more than your eyes that is jacked up. This is why the most knowledgable members are telling you to close one eye if front sight focus is so difficult for you.
When in a life and death situation at close range, the shooter may of may not use sights but the consistency of drawing on the flat range or at home make getting good his more likely. Training in point shooting and retention shooting are really another topic.
Eta - as for seeing double images, this happens to some folks. Eye dominance is a scale, not just right or left. So I someone is 55% right eye dom, he may still be recieving a picture from his left eye and hence the ghost image. With even moderate training, this becomes a nonissue.
And as for the blur, i would rather have a slight blur on my larger target since it is still easy to find the center than on my comparatively small front and rear sights. You would be amazed at the accuracy possible.
An you do understand that front sight focus only comes in the picture when you are just about to shoot to where you notice the desired results or another threat and go back to threat focus. It's a very fast process and like I said earlier, everyone is not even going to use sights in a cqb pistol scenario.
To a degree, it has been a while ago so this is to the best of my knowledge.
When concentrate completely on my sights my shots are very poor, no accuracy to speak of past about 15 yards.
soft focus on the target gives me a little better accuracy, I can keep everything in the 8 ring out to 20 yards.
Now when I switch back and forth between hard focus on target to hard focus on sights right before I break the shot, I get good accuracy all the way out to the 25 yard line. But that technique is very slow for me.
Now when i hard focus on the target, and soft focus on sights, i get the best results. accuracy is 3 in groups at 10 yards and head shots at 25 yards, and solid 8 ring shots at 50 yards.
To a degree, it has been a while ago so this is to the best of my knowledge.
When concentrate completely on my sights my shots are very poor, no accuracy to speak of past about 15 yards.
soft focus on the target gives me a little better accuracy, I can keep everything in the 8 ring out to 20 yards.
Now when I switch back and forth between hard focus on target to hard focus on sights right before I break the shot, I get good accuracy all the way out to the 25 yard line. But that technique is very slow for me.
Now when i hard focus on the target, and soft focus on sights, i get the best results. accuracy is 3 in groups at 10 yards and head shots at 25 yards, and solid 8 ring shots at 50 yards.
It sounds like you are either in need of good instruction/practice and/or your eyes are aging. Sometimes when we get used to learning to do things one way, there is a learning curve when learning a different technique. It takes time and temporarily degraded performance but eventually, you will be able to surpass your previous performance.
Keep in mind that at greater distance, closing an eye is perfectly acceptable.
Sounds like you found what works for you.
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Sounds like you found what works for you.
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Uhhh? Good first post buddy. :suicide:
What rubs me wrong about where you are coming from is that you have five posts and they are centered around an idea that you have accepted as true. You're not looking for debate or knowledge, you're just here to tell folks "how it is." on top of that you allude to your credentials but do not come right out and tell us what makes you so qualified or what, of any, your qualifications are. In my experience, people who do that do tend to be armchair ninjas. Because you shot with a couple of swat cops or 50 patrol officers (or whatever you said) means squat.
Front sight focus works fine for most folks. For sighted fire, it enhances speed and accuracy, particularily while transitioning between threats (as oppose to bringing the gun to te next threat and then lining up the sights in your secondary and tertiary vision).
Maybe your eyes are all jacked up, in which case, do what you you have to buy it sounds like it's your attitude more than your eyes that is jacked up. This is why the most knowledgable members are telling you to close one eye if front sight focus is so difficult for you.
When in a life and death situation at close range, the shooter may of may not use sights but the consistency of drawing on the flat range or at home make getting good his more likely. Training in point shooting and retention shooting are really another topic.
Eta - as for seeing double images, this happens to some folks. Eye dominance is a scale, not just right or left. So I someone is 55% right eye dom, he may still be recieving a picture from his left eye and hence the ghost image. With even moderate training, this becomes a nonissue.
And as for the blur, i would rather have a slight blur on my larger target since it is still easy to find the center than on my comparatively small front and rear sights. You would be amazed at the accuracy possible.
An you do understand that front sight focus only comes in the picture when you are just about to shoot to where you notice the desired results or another threat and go back to threat focus. It's a very fast process and like I said earlier, everyone is not even going to use sights in a cqb pistol scenario.
My credentials would only be relevant if I was representing myself as an expert. Which I am not, I have never claimed to be. If the way I presented my argument offended you I apologize. I'm not here to tell you, or anyone how it is. I do not possess that degree of knowledge. And I am not as arrogant as to think I know it all, like you apparently do.
My posts have been professional and polite because I know that I am speaking to professionals and like minded people. Perhaps you should consider checking your attitude.
[QUOTE=sboza;1267231]It sounds like you are either in need of good instruction/practice and/or your eyes are aging. Sometimes when we get used to learning to do things one way, there is a learning curve when learning a different technique. It takes time and temporarily degraded performance but eventually, you will be able to surpass your previous performance.
Keep in mind that at greater distance, closing an eye is perfectly acceptable.[/QUOTE
Good points, thanks
I have never tried shooting 50 yards with one eye open, think I might give it a go next trip to the range :happy:
My credentials would only be relevant if I was representing myself as an expert. Which I am not, I have never claimed to be. If the way I presented my argument offended you I apologize. I'm not here to tell you, or anyone how it is. I do not possess that degree of knowledge. And I am not as arrogant as to think I know it all, like you apparently do.
Anytime someone alludes to their credentials without disclosing them raises a red flag. As for arrogance, my issue was that you came out of the gate telling everyone how your way is the right way under the false pretense of starting a discussion. You eased off and calmed down in your more recent posts and I am sorry if my words hurt your feeling. I see no other reason for you to schoolyard counter-accuse me of being a "know it all" other than your feelings being hurt. I'm sure you're a good guy, hopefully we can leave that behind us.
It sounds like you are either in need of good instruction/practice and/or your eyes are aging. Sometimes when we get used to learning to do things one way, there is a learning curve when learning a different technique. It takes time and temporarily degraded performance but eventually, you will be able to surpass your previous performance.
Keep in mind that at greater distance, closing an eye is perfectly acceptable.
Good points, thanks
I have never tried shooting 50 yards with one eye open, think I might give it a go next trip to the range :happy:
For precision shooting, It can be beneficial to shut or partially close one eye. With a pistol at 10 yards, yeah, your body alarm response kicks in and your eyes are gonna be wide open so it makes sense to train as such. But at 50 yards PISTOL, if you can calm yourself enough to make that precision shot, you can close one eye long enough to get your hits. As for sa, it can be argued that you have a wide enough fov at 50 yards that momentarily closing one eye to get your hits is more important than the slight loss in sa. It is a different kind of engagement and hopefully you have found cover first, especially of the bg's have superior firepower. This is a very rare situation for a civilian to fin himself in.
hold your finger out in front of you, stair at it, see it clearly. now notice everything behind it is doubled.
Not every ones eyes work that way. Mine don't but I am heavily left eye dominant.
...it is the only thing that gives you a consistent indication of where your shots are going. As well as where they went (calling the shot). As others have stated, simply squint or close one eye. In competition venues, some just put a piece of tape over one lens of their glasses (the non-dominant eye).
I have heard good precision shooters can focus hard on the front sight, accept the wobble zone, deal with the blurry bob, and exercise really good trigger control. I think that's how one gets into the 2600 club, shoots High Master in PPC, and so forth.
My understanding is in USPSA one learns not to stress over perfect sight alignment but understands a perfect sight picture, how to use several different types of sight focus depending on the shot, how to call their shots, etc. I think that is how you make Grand Master.
As far as on the street...
Uhhh? Good first post buddy. :suicide:
I simply meant that we all addapt techniques that we learn to work best for us. Sorry I was not trying to be a Smart A$$.
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I am having a hard time understanding why people people feel that there are so many different levels of front sight focus. I'm not a competition guy so maybe that explains my lack of knowledge.
Outside of retention shooting distance, I practice sighted shooting. Under stress and at the proper distances, sometimes that becomes point shooting (which I practice but do not have a plan in place for its use, i.e. if it happens, it happens). I understand what folks are saying that the closer you are, the less intensely you have to focus on your front sight. But this seems like a complex concept and difficult to apply outside of known distance competition as it requires deciding on how intensely the eyes focus. Maybe with practice, as with everything else, this becomes natural.
I have pretty much the same front sight focus (outside of retention and long range shooting) for all of my shooting. The central concept is acceptable sight picture. It is a simple concept: Know how much your sight alignment can be off at given distances and take your shots when you are within the acceptable sight alignment range. This is very easy to do with minimal range time. You can actually go to various distances and see where your shots land with your alignment up, down, left, and right. Some of you may be amazed at how much you can get away with and still get good hits. For example, at three yards, you can shoot lightning fast since the sights have to be far from perfect. Have to make that headshot? Allow for a little more set time to get the acceptable sight picture for that low percentage target. Same at 7 yards, now you have to slow down a bit (up your set time) since the acceptable sight picture is somewhat narrower.
I hope that makes sense. No time to proofread but I am curious to know if the multiple front sight focus thing is strictly a competition thing. I've never heard of it.
Failure2Stop
03-26-12, 19:39
If you can consistently stay within the 8 ring from 50 yards, you are doing pretty well.
If you are happy with that level of precision (which is respectable) then there is no need for you to change what you are doing.
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I simply meant that we all addapt techniques that we learn to work best for us. Sorry I was not trying to be a Smart A$$.
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No worries dude! So long as one is building up from a solid foundation, it is absolutely crucial to eventually adapt techniques to fit the shooter. We're all built and shaped differently.
For example, a buddy of mine shoots with the teacup grip. He knows that his management of the flip portion (and lateral displacement) of recoil is diminished and as such that it will take him longer to get follow up shots on target. But he lost a couple of fingers support hand and has a lot of pain making a fist. So this suits him well as far as two handed shooting goes.
Solid foundation first and then adapt. I've never met two shooters who shot the exact same.
No time to proofread but I am curious to know if the multiple front sight focus thing is strictly a competition thing. Nah, I think the "multiple sight focus" thing has been going on since the invention of gun powder. I think the definitions and attempts to explain sight focus, sight picture, and sight alignment kind of evolved along the way. In competition circles we need to see what we need to see to make and to call the shot, nothing more, nothing less.
For example, to shoot a Mozambique Drill at 10 yards (two to the body and one to the head) at speed (1.5-1.75 seconds from hands at sides or above shoulders) all I need for the shots to the body are to see the sights peripherally, or to just look through the sights. To hit the head I ride the recoil and confirm a quick sight picture with sights aligned just enough to make the hit. At 5-7 yards, I often shoot from my index with just enough visual inputs to get the hits. A plate rack at 30 yards requires me to get on the sights pretty hard.
Having said all of that, in most instances it is just as fast to see the sights and exercise a little visual patience.
Anytime someone alludes to their credentials without disclosing them raises a red flag. As for arrogance, my issue was that you came out of the gate telling everyone how your way is the right way under the false pretense of starting a discussion. You eased off and calmed down in your more recent posts and I am sorry if my words hurt your feeling. I see no other reason for you to schoolyard counter-accuse me of being a "know it all" other than your feelings being hurt. I'm sure you're a good guy, hopefully we can leave that behind us.
For precision shooting, It can be beneficial to shut or partially close one eye. With a pistol at 10 yards, yeah, your body alarm response kicks in and your eyes are gonna be wide open so it makes sense to train as such. But at 50 yards PISTOL, if you can calm yourself enough to make that precision shot, you can close one eye long enough to get your hits. As for sa, it can be argued that you have a wide enough fov at 50 yards that momentarily closing one eye to get your hits is more important than the slight loss in sa. It is a different kind of engagement and hopefully you have found cover first, especially of the bg's have superior firepower. This is a very rare situation for a civilian to fin himself in.
No harm no foul brother.
I know its not conventional but I like training out to 50 yards, the last officer involved shooting at my department the officer was 35 yards away when he engaged the suspect. The suspect had another officer pinned down behind a car with a shotgun.
good point on field of view
Nah, I think the "multiple sight focus" thing has been going on since the invention of gun powder. I think the definitions and attempts to explain sight focus, sight picture, and sight alignment kind of evolved along the way. In competition circles we need to see what we need to see to make and to call the shot, nothing more, nothing less.
For example, to shoot a Mozambique Drill at 10 yards (two to the body and one to the head) at speed (1.5-1.75 seconds from hands at sides or above shoulders) all I need for the shots to the body are to see the sights peripherally, or to just look through the sights. To hit the head I ride the recoil and confirm a quick sight picture with sights aligned just enough to make the hit. At 5-7 yards, I often shoot from my index with just enough visual inputs to get the hits. A plate rack at 30 yards requires me to get on the sights pretty hard.
Having said all of that, in most instances it is just as fast to see the sights and exercise a little visual patience.
I think you hit the nail on the head. At 5-7 yards, IMO, I see little advantage in getting a traditional sight picture, I simply use the whole gun as a reference and press it to the target and press the trigger.
As the distance increases I find that I get to a point where I am no longer comfortable doing that (about 10 yards) and I find myself naturally going to a traditional sight picture.
Now on moving targets I always try to get a good sight pic before I press the trigger no matter what the distance is.
Failure2Stop
03-27-12, 09:23
Frankly I am at a loss here.
Variable sight focus has been used and taught for a long time.
I know of no credible instructor that doesn't cover it, and i know of no even semi-serious speed shooter that doesn't use it.
Frankly I am at a loss here.
Variable sight focus has been used and taught for a long time.
I know of no credible instructor that doesn't cover it, and i know of no even semi-serious speed shooter that doesn't use it.
My first firearms instructor at the police academy told us to only look at the front sight. Never the target, never anything else, simply stair at the front sight. No explanation of soft focus, or hard focus or anything else. When I asked him how I am supposed to be able to hit a target that I never look at, or how am I going to know its even a threat if I don't look at it, he did not have an answer.
about 4 years ago the former firearms instructor at my agency (he has been relieved of his position for gross incompetence) told me that you can not see your sights in a shooting, and will never use them in a real fight. And if he could he would remove the sights from his pistol because they are useless. And this is a man who had 20 years LEO experience, was a master peace officer and a certified police firearms instructor. The man was a complete dumbass.
Frankly I am at a loss here.
Variable sight focus has been used and taught for a long time.
I know of no credible instructor that doesn't cover it, and i know of no even semi-serious speed shooter that doesn't use it.
I don't know what to say. A couple years ago I realized that my pistol skills left quite a bit to be desired despite a decent amount of, albeit in hindsight substandard, formal training. At the time, pistol wasn't as important to me but knowing the direction I would be perusing in the next few years (le), I took a few open enrollment pistol classes on my own dime to bring those skills to a respectable level. I put tactics related training on hold and ran tac pistol at bw, tac pistol instructor at csat, and went through the glock instructor workshop.
Never once, either during these classes or previous training, did I hear anything about variable sight focus. Maybe, I am not understanding the term clearly. What I gather is that variable sight focus has to do with how hard you look at your front sight when you are shooting. Is this right?
The only thing close that I have learned is to extend the concept of acceptable sight picture on presentation and knowing when your sights alignment is good enough to break the shot even though your eyes haven't completed the focus shift from threat to front sight.
Always here to learn, hopefully someone can set me straight :)
Failure2Stop
03-27-12, 14:05
Well, I guess there are a few credible places that don't cover it.
I haven't trained with everybody.
I consider variable focus to be an integral part of "see what you need to see".
As I have nothing to do with their training curriculum I won't speculate as to why they don't teach it.
Well, I guess there are a few credible places that don't cover it.
I haven't trained with everybody.
I consider variable focus to be an integral part of "see what you need to see".
As I have nothing to do with their training curriculum I won't speculate as to why they don't teach it.
Well, I have been thinking about taking another pistol class. Anyone you recommend? Do you folks at f2s teach a pistol class? If I can find some free time, I'm always up to learn somehow new or something from a new perspective. Thanks man.
Just a brief background so you'll understand where I'm coming from. I shot Expert in the USMC for 4 years straight (then got out). I'm current LE (shoot 100% on semi-annual quals), and I'm a 4-gun Master in IDPA. An important distinction on that, I didn't classify as a Master in any of those 4 divisions. I won all four through performance at 4 IDPA National Championships. One was by winning Division Champion in 2005 with a revolver.
Not all of your combat and defense related instructors are going to spend time on that area. They have critical skills to impart in a short period of time, not all of which relate to actually pressing the trigger. They're going to expect you to know and understand basic marksmanship when you arrive at their schools. If you don't have it, you need to be in basic shooting courses local to you, not at a top level defense/combat school.
Most of your major shooting competitors will immediately recognize the various methods of "focus" as it pertains to shooting. Their entire goal is to complete a course of fire as accurately as necessary, within the shortest time frame possible. In order to win at the highest levels, a critical component is eye speed. IIRC, it was Earnest Langdon that tested in the top 2% of all NFL wide receivers on eye speed.
So, what is eye speed? Simply put, it's how quickly your eyes can switch from hard focus on one object, to hard focus on another. There are actual drills for improving eye speed. One can be done while driving. If you're in a relatively non-congested area where there aren't a lot of driving challenges, focus on a distant object like a letter on a traffic sign or a license plate. It's not enough to focus on an entire object like the sign or the car. Once you're sharply focused on the specific detail of an object, see how quickly you can go from focusing on it, to the tip of the speedometer needle and back. Do this 10 times, then let your eyes relax. Do a couple more reps and then quit. Do it again later in the day and call it done. You'll notice some eye strain when you first do it. That's your eyes being used to slow, lazy transitions. You're literally exercising your eye muscles like you've never done before.
You can shoot as fast as you want, but you can only hit as fast as you can see. The faster you can go from focusing on your front sight, to the next target, and back to the front sight, the faster you can hit.
Now let's discuss resolution. This is a function of what your actual vision is. The old standard of "20/20" means you can resolve lines at 20 feet that are 1.75mm apart. If you have 20/10 vision, that means you can resolve lines at 20 feet that are .875mm apart. This is similar to everyone on this forum suggesting to buy the best quality optics you can. The better your vision (optic), the better you can resolve important objects. There are a lot of other factors involved, but this is the main one. People like fighter pilots are going to have an edge if they have superior vision.
As for soft focus, it comes into play when you need to take in larger areas of information, not all of which will be at the same focal point. Soft focus is used during navigation, area scanning (threat detection) and distance calculations. It's also used on the target during the brief period of time when you're breaking a shot.
Finally, the all important hand/eye coordination will bring it all together.
So, let's run through a scenario and break it down. You enter an area that may contain a threat or threats. You're in high yellow because you know it's a danger zone. You're scanning the area using soft focus. You want the maximum amount of information being collected by your eyes so you can make rapid decisions. Suddenly you see a possible threat. Your focus narrows, but it's still soft focus. You key off the hands of the subject, yet you still need more information. You also need to continue observing the area to detect any additional potential threats. As the distance closes, you begin picking up indicators from the subject that an additional person is off to the right (his left). You can't see that person yet, but the subject's darting eyes have given up something. You're still in soft focus. Finally, you see the second subject. Now your focus is split and you're getting solid indicators that this is a possible mugging scenario. You're observing the threats, while also looking or avenues of escape. You find none.
You're in orange now and working your OODA loop. As you begin to react, the 1st subject draws a gun while announcing the holdup. You're in red now and the most immediate threat is 8 yards away directly in front of you. Your soft focus had the 2nd subject at 10-12 yards and not presenting a weapon yet. As you draw, your eyes hard focus on a spot centered on subject one’s chest (button, crease, shadow). As you punch the gun out toward the intended target, hand eye coordination does the work of aligning the gun with the target. As the gun comes into the lower periphery of your vision, your hard focus switches from the spot you want to hit, to the front sight. Your eyes verify sight alignment and you break the shot. You maintain hard focus on the front sight to verify that the shot broke where it was supposed to, then reacquire the sight picture as necessary for additional shots on the same threat. As soon as you’ve finished that, your eyes cut hard to the next threat. Your eyes are faster than your hands, so they will have time to assess the second subject and make your shoot/don’t shoot decision as the gun comes into alignment. If it’s a firing solution, your eyes lock hard onto the spot you want to hit and you repeat the process.
That’s a detailed breakdown of something that can be completed in under 2.5 seconds at 8-10 yards. Not everyone can do it that fast and not everyone will be able to do it correctly, but that’s the desired sequence of events as far as your eyes are concerned.
Just a brief background so you'll understand where I'm coming from. I shot Expert in the USMC for 4 years straight (then got out). I'm current LE (shoot 100% on semi-annual quals), and I'm a 4-gun Master in IDPA. An important distinction on that, I didn't classify as a Master in any of those 4 divisions. I won all four through performance at 4 IDPA National Championships. One was by winning Division Champion in 2005 with a revolver.
Not all of your combat and defense related instructors are going to spend time on that area. They have critical skills to impart in a short period of time, not all of which relate to actually pressing the trigger. They're going to expect you to know and understand basic marksmanship when you arrive at their schools. If you don't have it, you need to be in basic shooting courses local to you, not at a top level defense/combat school.
Most of your major shooting competitors will immediately recognize the various methods of "focus" as it pertains to shooting. Their entire goal is to complete a course of fire as accurately as necessary, within the shortest time frame possible. In order to win at the highest levels, a critical component is eye speed. IIRC, it was Earnest Langdon that tested in the top 2% of all NFL wide receivers on eye speed.
So, what is eye speed? Simply put, it's how quickly your eyes can switch from hard focus on one object, to hard focus on another. There are actual drills for improving eye speed. One can be done while driving. If you're in a relatively non-congested area where there aren't a lot of driving challenges, focus on a distant object like a letter on a traffic sign or a license plate. It's not enough to focus on an entire object like the sign or the car. Once you're sharply focused on the specific detail of an object, see how quickly you can go from focusing on it, to the tip of the speedometer needle and back. Do this 10 times, then let your eyes relax. Do a couple more reps and then quit. Do it again later in the day and call it done. You'll notice some eye strain when you first do it. That's your eyes being used to slow, lazy transitions. You're literally exercising your eye muscles like you've never done before.
You can shoot as fast as you want, but you can only hit as fast as you can see. The faster you can go from focusing on your front sight, to the next target, and back to the front sight, the faster you can hit.
Now let's discuss resolution. This is a function of what your actual vision is. The old standard of "20/20" means you can resolve lines at 20 feet that are 1.75mm apart. If you have 20/10 vision, that means you can resolve lines at 20 feet that are .875mm apart. This is similar to everyone on this forum suggesting to buy the best quality optics you can. The better your vision (optic), the better you can resolve important objects. There are a lot of other factors involved, but this is the main one. People like fighter pilots are going to have an edge if they have superior vision.
As for soft focus, it comes into play when you need to take in larger areas of information, not all of which will be at the same focal point. Soft focus is used during navigation, area scanning (threat detection) and distance calculations. It's also used on the target during the brief period of time when you're breaking a shot.
Finally, the all important hand/eye coordination will bring it all together.
So, let's run through a scenario and break it down. You enter an area that may contain a threat or threats. You're in high yellow because you know it's a danger zone. You're scanning the area using soft focus. You want the maximum amount of information being collected by your eyes so you can make rapid decisions. Suddenly you see a possible threat. Your focus narrows, but it's still soft focus. You key off the hands of the subject, yet you still need more information. You also need to continue observing the area to detect any additional potential threats. As the distance closes, you begin picking up indicators from the subject that an additional person is off to the right (his left). You can't see that person yet, but the subject's darting eyes have given up something. You're still in soft focus. Finally, you see the second subject. Now your focus is split and you're getting solid indicators that this is a possible mugging scenario. You're observing the threats, while also looking or avenues of escape. You find none.
You're in orange now and working your OODA loop. As you begin to react, the 1st subject draws a gun while announcing the holdup. You're in red now and the most immediate threat is 8 yards away directly in front of you. Your soft focus had the 2nd subject at 10-12 yards and not presenting a weapon yet. As you draw, your eyes hard focus on a spot centered on subject one’s chest (button, crease, shadow). As you punch the gun out toward the intended target, hand eye coordination does the work of aligning the gun with the target. As the gun comes into the lower periphery of your vision, your hard focus switches from the spot you want to hit, to the front sight. Your eyes verify sight alignment and you break the shot. You maintain hard focus on the front sight to verify that the shot broke where it was supposed to, then reacquire the sight picture as necessary for additional shots on the same threat. As soon as you’ve finished that, your eyes cut hard to the next threat. Your eyes are faster than your hands, so they will have time to assess the second subject and make your shoot/don’t shoot decision as the gun comes into alignment. If it’s a firing solution, your eyes lock hard onto the spot you want to hit and you repeat the process.
That’s a detailed breakdown of something that can be completed in under 2.5 seconds at 8-10 yards. Not everyone can do it that fast and not everyone will be able to do it correctly, but that’s the desired sequence of events as far as your eyes are concerned.
Thanks for breaking that down brother. That is actually how I've been trained. I guess I was never given a term for it. I posted how I use sights for threat assessment and engagement earlier in the threadand it is almost identical (albeit much less eliquent) to the process you outline. I didn't realize that this is what was meant by the term variable focus.
And thanks for the eye exercises, I mostly use dry practice to train my eyes but I like your suggestion (driving).
Thanks again for clarifying this for me. A very clear and concise explanation. I was starting to think I was lacking some very prominent skill set. I guess I was just misinterpreting what the term meant.
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