View Full Version : G19 USPSA
I shoot a g19 gen 4 in local practical competitions, whether it be USPSA/IDPA/Steel Challenege.
I shoot it relatively well, I know I can improve but am struggling with college to make dedicated efforts to get to the range. I am just as fast as guys with a g34 or g17 at Steel shoots, but when the distance gets stretched out I have to take a little more time.
I like the idea of shooting what I carry on a regular basis, to keep a consistent firearm frame of mind (if that makes sense).
I'm going to buy another glock, either a 19 or 17. My gut right now says to stick with the 19, have one dedicated to games and one for carry, set up essentially the same, maybe different sights being the only difference.
But my questions are
1. Is there a noticeable difference in shooting a 19 to a 17 with distance and speed considered?
2. With the consistency of carry and gaming in mind, will the difference of size between the two make a difference enough to cause issue?
3. With the above in mind, (I hate to ask these types of questions) What would you do, buy the 17 or stick with the 19?
Robb Jensen
03-26-12, 20:19
If money is tight keep shooting the G19. I shoot a G19 more accurately and faster to 20yds. Where a 17 or 34 helps is if you're shooting wimpy handloads just barely making power factor you can get them faster than they would do out of a 19. Or if you're making shots over 25yds a lot. My fastest plate rack run ever at a GSSF Match was using a Glock 26.
I'm buying another glock either way, money is not an issue.
I don't reload so I shoot factory 115gr fmj for games.
I would suggest finding some 124g to try in your G19. My G19 and G17 shoot it more accurately than the 115g I have shot. You can get 124g American Eagle for not much more than 115g.
For me, the primary advantage to a longer sight radius is the ability to instantly read the relationship of the bore to the target face at speed with misaligned sights. Of course, the longer radius also makes it easier for older eyes to see and align the sights in the first place. I also find it easier to call the shot with a little longer radius.
There is plenty of difference between a G19 and a G34 to warrant a change. For me, the nod goes to the G17 over the G19, but only you know if there is any advantage at all to be gained by going with the G17, by considering where you are in your learning and skill development curve, etc. Good luck with whatever you decide.
I would suggest you get a G17 and set it up for gaming. A gaming gun and a SD gun, are apples and oranges.
I've done well with my G19 in both IDPA and GSSF; what I lose in sight radius compared to my G17 and (especially) G34, I gain in natural, instinctive index to the gun. While overall I probably do best with my G34, I certainly wouldn't feel handicapped in the least using the G19-especially if it's your real-world carry gun.
When I won a Glock in GSSF last year, after much deliberation I chose to get another G19, setting it up identically to my G34 (minus connector and NY1 spring) so that I can use them in the same match (i.e., GSSF) with basically the same triggerpull characteristics.
Best, Jon
Failure2Stop
03-27-12, 07:45
If money is tight keep shooting the G19. I shoot a G19 more accurately and faster to 20yds. Where a 17 or 34 helps is if you're shooting wimpy handloads just barely making power factor you can get them faster than they would do out of a 19. Or if you're making shots over 25yds a lot. My fastest plate rack run ever at a GSSF Match was using a Glock 26.
This is the answer I most frequently encounter by high level competitive shooters.
I personally shoot a G17 better, but have had some very good performances with my 19.
Thanks for the responses fellas. I'm trying to find a 17 now, just to give it a little run through, see how it differs from the 19 for me.
I just have this feeling that I'm going to stick with the 19, to keep my support equipment cheap, already have an IWB and two OWB kydex, one with light one with no light.
Again Thanks, other and more input is welcome.
Nuthin' wrong with a 19.
I do the same thing you do with a 19, I've also used a 34 and a 17.
The 17 may have been a tiny little bit easier to shoot...maybe. I didn't get along with the 34 at all, so I just stuck with the 19.
I love a Glock 19 but it's the only Glock that like at all.
I personally like the way my G19 tracks better than my 17 or my 34 BUT the 34 has the least amount of muzzle climb with factory loads.
Muzzle climb can be over come with good technique as well as hand and forearm strength so an observation like the above is going to be shooter dependent.
I also like the way i transition between targets with the 19 versus the longer guns. The shorter gun is more "pointable" for me but the longer sight radius does have an accuracy benefit past 20 yards. It is a trade off.
The real reason to switch from the 19 to the 17 or 34 would be the magwell. I believe the magwell on the full size frame is almost 20% larger than the G19 due to the flare. This is a pretty significant increase and makes reloading the gun significantly easier.
Other than that, unless you're hand loading it doesnt make a difference so shoot what you WANT to shoot, be as competitive as you can and rock on. Unless you're already a master class shooter and you're attempting to get grandmaster rank, hardware will have very little over all effect on your performance.
You are NOT limited by shooting a G19.
Conversely, shooting handloads out of a G34 is like cheating. (subjective observation)
One other thing to think about is that with a Glock, you are also NOT affecting your overall performance on the platform by going between a 19 or a 34. It makes very little difference as the triggers SHOULD be the same between guns.
I will never understand the guy running around with an 18 ounce, borderline full auto trigger in his "game" gun and then a 7 pound - connector, NY1 spring carry setup. It makes no sense to me when you could be rocking 4.5 pound triggers in both with the exact same characteristics.
I am just as fast as guys with a g34 or g17 at Steel shoots, but when the distance gets stretched out I have to take a little more time.
No matter which pistol you choose, spend a couple of hundred bucks on ammo testing. Some Glocks will shoot Load A into 3" at 25 yards, but Load B into 6". You may have to test a dozen or more loads to see what shoots best, but it's a smart way to improve your performance without modifying the gun in any way.
You won't notice it up close, but it starts to matter as ranges get longer.
Okie John
Thanks fellas
I think I'm gonna stick with getting another 19 and just add a '-' connector for the game version and leave my carry as stock.
Unless of course I shoot the 17 lights out, when I try it out this weekend.
Aside from the '-' connector what would be the most prudent internals to lighten trigger pull to about 3.5lbs?
Yes, the (-) is the most prudent way to improve your trigger pull. It makes a lot of sense to set up all of your guns the same way, so I have them in all of my Glocks, including my EDC, and I’m not alone in that.
Bear in mind the ammo issue when you shoot a G17 this weekend. Try it with duty-grade defense ammo if you really want to see what it can do. That stuff outshoots FMJ every time, and will make you humble.
Okie John
Yes, the (-) is the most prudent way to improve your trigger pull. It makes a lot of sense to set up all of your guns the same way, so I have them in all of my Glocks, including my EDC, and I’m not alone in that.
Bear in mind the ammo issue when you shoot a G17 this weekend. Try it with duty-grade defense ammo if you really want to see what it can do. That stuff outshoots FMJ every time, and will make you humble.
Okie John
Thanks for the headsup and info on the '-' connector, I will certainly look into that.
The problem I have with ammo is that whichever pistol I buy will only see target practice ammo, as it will be a high volume gun, and I can't afford to shoot duty-grade ammo at a high volume.
I have an inventory right now of 2500+ of 9mm 115 gr fmj, for gaming and practice. Not a lot of ammo, by most standards, but for a college kid trying to shoot as often as possible I have to go with what makes sense financially.
The stuff I have on hand will do ~5" groups at 25 yards with my g19 from a bench and open up only slightly more when shooting offhand at a steady pace (not race, but not bullseye pace).
That's acceptable by my learning curve, maybe not by some or even most here, but it works. I don't get all A or -0 hits, but if I do my part I know where they are gonna hit, unless of course I throw a shot, then it's always down and left, working on that too.
Again I appreciate all the input, especially Okie John, thanks man.
If it makes you feel any better, Mike Hughes from Top Shot and the creator of the SIRT pistol is currently shooting a Gen 4 G19 and rocking some serious face with it.
Two thoughts:
The guys who are winning are doing it with longer guns.
But,
I never go to a Match without a backup gun. Sights get loose, parts get lost, guns go down, even Glocks.
My CCW pistol becomes my Match pistol. All the mags holsters etc are interchangeable 1911 Colts.
You are already invested in a Glock 19 holster mags etc so it makes cost sense that your backup would be the same.
After college you might get the bug to shoot Limited and if you want to sell your 19, the $ loss would be minor. (yes, you can use your Glock 19 to shoot in Limited Minor )
As others have said there is nothing wrong with showing up at Steel, or USPSA with a Glock 19.
In my opinion and as someone already mentioned, the increased sight radius is the main thing you’re giving up by shooting the 19. Either another 19 or a 17 would be good and I believe having the same basic trigger and feel is a good idea.
I went through a similar process a few years ago. I had a G-19 that I had started shooting IDPA with, about the time we got CCW here. My wife wanted a handgun she could shoot too and she liked it better than the 17. Enter the 19. I got to shooting IDPA and USPSA with it and never really feel at a disadvantage. Last year ago my son expressed an interest in shooting some matches. After looking at all the magazines and holsters I already had I ended up buying another G-19. Just my thought but I figured I now have two concealable handguns with complete interchangeability that just happens to get used at the occasional match. Besides, my wife started wanting her 19 back.
Now I must add that I personally am not so much interested in my ranking but look at it as a convenient and fun way to practice drawing, moving, reloading and such. While I‘m not in the winner’s circle I usually fall in the lower part of the top ½. Certainly good enough for my purposes. However your purposes may, and likely will be different from mine. Just my 2 cents worth and good luck.
I believe Robb mentioned this already but the reason why the top shooters are using longer guns is because they ALL shoot reloads.
When you're pushing the limits of your equipment, every advantage counts. You cannot shoot the same power ammunition out of a G19 as you can out of a G34 due to the difference in velocity attributed to barrel length.
Gary1911A1
03-28-12, 10:14
When you shoot the 17 this weekend you may find it points higher for you than your 19 or at least that has been my experience. Make sure you take your 19 along so you can try some drills with each. See if you can also get a timer or download one to your IPhone if you have one. Good luck with whatever one you decide to get.
got a timer on my droid, haven't tried it out yet, I suppose now's a good a time as any.
Thanks for the heads up on the 17 possibly pointing high. I believe I'll just aim the same way I do with the 19 poa/poi, as that obviously makes the most sense to me. I know I might like the 17, I just don't know that I'll like it enough to justify buying it over the 19.
Again thanks again fellas.
Mike_Hughes
06-27-12, 00:17
I switched to a stock Glock 19 to shoot Production Class in USPSA. The short snappy slide has given me wicked control pairs. I see no advantage of the longer sight radius.
Also leaving trigger stock. Still getting .17s splits up close and with longer shots I prep the trigger anyhow while acquiring sight picture-alignment. But training with a 12lbs trigger break SIRT so trigger finger is getting strong and neurally isolated. :cool:
Failure2Stop
06-27-12, 09:29
I switched to a stock Glock 19 to shoot Production Class in USPSA.
Any thoughts on the reload?
Some find the short(ish) magazine and grip to make reloads a bit harder, what's your take on it?
Any thoughts on the reload?
Some find the short(ish) magazine and grip to make reloads a bit harder, what's your take on it?
Mike isnt human so his opinion doesnt count...damned androids...
Im not Mike so pardon me for opining on the subject but i find that the larger magwells allow more "slop" in your technique, just like adding a magwell or funnel to a limited gun. You can get away with more imprecise movements.
Truth be told, just like with a lady, you never want to hear "is it in yet?". You're either in, or you're not whether its a G19 or a G17.
I still prefer my G17 as i havent achieved android status yet with my technique so the G17 affords me a greater range of forgiveness when it comes to sloppiness.
Mike, what is your take on this?
After moving away from my M&P Pro and before moving to my CZ SP-01 Shadow for USPSA I did shoot my G19 in one match. I didn't have any problems with the reloads even with the relatively short mags and short grip. Actually, I shot better with my G19 than I ever shot with my M&P Pro.
I picked up a g17 with a SAD prefix in May for USPSA.
949 error free rounds to date. I'm pretty happy with it, and have even toyed with getting another one for carry as the little lady has decided the 19 fits her pretty good.
I know my fundamentals need a lot of work. But this summer all I'm doing is taking two summer courses through ISU = a lot of dry fire and mag change practices.
Mike_Hughes
06-27-12, 11:08
Mike isnt human so his opinion doesnt count...damned androids...
Im not Mike so pardon me for opining on the subject but i find that the larger magwells allow more "slop" in your technique, just like adding a magwell or funnel to a limited gun. You can get away with more imprecise movements.
Truth be told, just like with a lady, you never want to hear "is it in yet?". You're either in, or you're not whether its a G19 or a G17.
I still prefer my G17 as i havent achieved android status yet with my technique so the G17 affords me a greater range of forgiveness when it comes to sloppiness.
Mike, what is your take on this?
Ha,
Well I do relax my lower grip a bit to hit a reload so I don't pinch my lower palm. I reload with 17 round mags because I carry 17 rnd mags for concealed carry anyhow. First mag is a standard 15 rounder. I just have awareness of support hand forfinger bringing to strong hand pinky at the second knuckle, just did a quick video on this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GrJ4NuLyrU concept. I made custom SIRT where I cut off the handle so it is the same length and angle as the G19. When I say "custom" I only mean I overlayed the G19 on the SIRT, chalked a baseline, took my reciprocating saw and did a crude cut, wolla.
Honestly did not find much different between G19 grip and a G17.
I agree whole hearteldy above, I think we need to learn from the era of the 80s where single stacks were the only game in town, lets not let magwells etc be a crutch for our lack of precision. It should always be in and she, I mean the gun, should not need to be a slut, I mean need to have a huge magwell. ha
Topic Change: Slide length
Big thing on G19 is that snappy slide, I have some high speed video of a 5" M&P and the G34 and that slide is like a tuning fork sticking way out there. I personally like the short snappy slide for tight shots in a rapid shot drill.
I used a Gen4 G19 for a couple of competitions. It's my wife's carry gun! :D I then moved to a Gen4 G17 that I shot in Limited Minor. It has now become my back-up competition gun.
NOW I shoot a Gen3 G34. It's easier to make a Gen3 a race-rocket gun for the limited minor class. If I do my part, I shouldn't drop any points... Unfortunately I'm not THAT good yet.
Any thoughts on the reload?
Some find the short(ish) magazine and grip to make reloads a bit harder, what's your take on it?
I'm not the OP but I've shot a 19 quite a bit in competition and training.
My hands are about on the small end of average.
In all my years of very aggressive mag changes, I pinched my pinky one time. And it hurt. Bad. I think I peed a little:haha:. I had a blood blister for about a month.
I can shoot all my Glocks equally accutate. Sometimes, I will shoot my 26 more accurate than my 17 and 34. The trigger and the contro of it is 90% of accuracy work. And its all the same between the models.
Now, when competing USPSA, quick reloads and gun handling are critical. So this rules out the 26 and the 19 for me. I have shot the 26and the 19 in Limited (minor) and won!! But, a rare fluke is not going to get me shooting my 26 at the next State match. I cannot do 1 second realoads with the smaller frames. Not consistently, hands sweaty, nervous, etc...
Now with GSSF (firing from a low ready) and IDPA (with the retarded tactical reloads with retention) I would not feel as handicapped with a 19 or 26, assuming I practiced the draw enough to be natural.
If I were you, I would get a 17 and get the same sights and trigger as your carry 19. If I had to cut back to only two guns (yikes) I would have either have 2 model 19's or a 17 and a 26... If I could only have one gun (gasp) I'd probably get a 19.
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