View Full Version : acog, or 2nd ar
Well guys, I have $1200 to spend and I am trying to decide between getting an acog for my current ar or getting a 2nd ar?
My current ar is a DD m4v7. So far I absolutely love this gun. I currently have a t-1 sitting on top of it, but I definately want to throw and acog on it and make the rifle more versatile. I have experimented with the bac system and find that it works great for me. So, I definately want an acog.
BUT....I also would like a 2nd ar. Ideally, my 2nd one would be set up for cqb with the t-1 and be spoting a shorter barrel. Unfortunately for me this means a pistol for the time being, unless I move on to a more free state. Of course, I have been researching SBR uppers, and have come to the conclusions that the extran inch on an 11.5 may just be worth it. Of course, this only cuts off 4.5" from my current ar. That is nice, but I do not think that it is something that is absolutely needed. After all, it is the size of some of my appendages (I am talking about my fingers guys:no: ). On the other hand, it is an election year, and while I am not too worried about loosing any of our rights in the next year or so, I no that other people are, and the fear buying is probably going to start very soon. So, I feel I can wait a year for this ar, but I do not really want to pay double for it either because demand is high and supply is low.
So genntlemen, what do you all think
I have ACOGs on two of my rifles, one on my 16" Carbine BCM and the other on my 14.5 Mid BCM, and I like them a lot. With that being said however, a quality second rifle is never a bad idea. Fear Buying has already started in some places, which can be seen with how many stores are out of stock on certain items.
While I could go either way with the choice you've listed, maybe consider trying to find a used ACOG and then buy either more rounds and some training? While rifles and components may be selling out quickly, ammunition will be even harder to find at a good price soon enough.
NoveskeFan
03-28-12, 07:38
Do you have an optic on the DD now? Anyway, I would spend the coin on another AR...or depending on how much ammo you currently have, I would go 75% on ammo and 25% on magazines.
Have you had any formal training with your setup. I'd highly recommend it if not. Don't get all caught up in the latest, greatest gear. Running the gun in a formal environment under a good instructor will go a long way toward helping you figure out what you really need and/or want.
RE the SBR, if you can't have one in your state, I'd just skip the pistol thing, as it's not really useable. If you want another/shorter AR, get a 14.5 with a pinned Battlecomp 1.5.
I am still not sure, but I think what I will do is get the acog. I am planning on getting a ta33 so there will be some money left over. I already have plenty of ammo and mags.
As far as training goes, I do have some, and I think you can always use more. I know a class is not going to fit in my schedule for at least a half a years so I am not too worried about that and feel pretty confident with the training I have already received.
So, I might get the acog, a stipped lower, and maybe a spare bolt for my current rifle.
I will have to think about it.
i run a TA33 on my 6920 and while I didn't pay anywhere near retail, it has definitely been money well spent. But given your current setup, I would probably buy another AR and start saving up to put an ACOG on it. ymmv
To the OP, I know exactly what you mean. I get this feeling every time I consider buying a quality optic, "Why have an optic when I could have a huge amount of ammo, or a second rifle! ).
It's a hard decision. [I]Personally, I'd have to opt for more ammo and training time for now, but I know one day, I'll get my optic, for now, its a irons sights life for me! :dance3:
Personally, I'd rather have one "perfect rifle" than two "almost perfect" rifles.
Beat Trash
03-28-12, 09:23
I'd get the second rifle. Especially as availability of quality guns is starting to get very tight, and will get tighter as the year progresses.
I'd then save up for the ACOG.
crusader377
03-28-12, 09:31
I would buy the second rifle or at least start buying it with a good quality lower such as LMT or BCM.
Another option you might want to consider is buyer a low magnification variable optic like a Leupold VX-R, Leupold Mark 4, or Vortex Viper PST. Especially with the VX-R and Viper PST are in the $450-$500 range you can buy that and pick up a lower and still have money left over for your upper.
All good opinions. I think I will just have to take some time to think about it.
I would go with another ar. Like you say you can always use irons until. Nice to have a backup gun or one for whoever in a time of need.
Get a kiss TA01 trijicon, it is a fantastic no frills scope that will give you the edge in a life or death situation. You can only carry on rifle at a time in a life or death situation so face the ordeal prepared to WIN. Now then, you can always get the much needed second lower receiver with money left over from the budget you described as a new TA01 is about $950.00 so for the $250.00 remaining you could get a decent complete lower set up. I found my TA01 for about $550 and it is like new and has many years left on the reticle, if you luck out like that then you can afford a different complete upper to pin onto your lower utilizing the one bcg. Hope this helps Savage.
Get a kiss TA01 trijicon, it is a fantastic no frills scope that will give you the edge in a life or death situation. You can only carry on rifle at a time in a life or death situation so face the ordeal prepared to WIN. Now then, you can always get the much needed second lower receiver with money left over from the budget you described as a new TA01 is about $950.00 so for the $250.00 remaining you could get a decent complete lower set up. I found my TA01 for about $550 and it is like new and has many years left on the reticle, if you luck out like that then you can afford a different complete upper to pin onto your lower utilizing the one bcg. Hope this helps Savage.
Excellent suggestion.... I tried carrying and shooting 2 rifles at the same time. Accuracy was lacking and my back hurt.
:lol:
ac130usnsr
03-28-12, 11:13
I would get another AR. Two is one, one is none.
Check out the used market for the ACOG. You can find them for sale on this site fairly often for good prices. I picked up a compact ACOG a few years ago in great condition for 600 bucks and I recently picked up a LNIB TA-31 RCOA4 complete package for 800 from my bro in laws pawn shop.
If you get an ACOG for 600ish bucks the remaining will buy you most of a standard BCM. A blem lower from Grant and an upper reciever group from BCM. Ten just save a little more for the BCG, charging handle and handguard.
Put simply - you'll always be able to buy an optic, but you might not always be able to buy an M4.
Check out the used market for the ACOG. You can find them for sale on this site fairly often for good prices. I picked up a compact ACOG a few years ago in great condition for 600 bucks and I recently picked up a LNIB TA-31 RCOA4 complete package for 800 from my bro in laws pawn shop.
If you get an ACOG for 600ish bucks the remaining will buy you most of a standard BCM. A blem lower from Grant and an upper reciever group from BCM. Ten just save a little more for the BCG, charging handle and handguard.
This sounds like a good avenue to pursue. While I would love to have a huge collection of rifles, I also understand that I have more use for one great rifle. I was really heavy into aks until recently. I owned several variants, but most collected dust while one or two got used. One of the reasons why I decided to switch back to ar rifles were the fact that they were so modular and easy to switch up. I will probably by another lower, and may eventually buy several uppers to go on the few lowers. Of course, then eventually I will probably fill the uppers without lowers with lowers and have many complete rifles. But for the time being I really wanted one set up for intermediate distance and one set up for cqb.
Bobert0989
03-28-12, 12:36
I was going to suggest buying the optic that makes you comfortable, in this case, the ACOG. Put what money you have left into another UPPER, where you can easily change out the uppers for whichever configuration you desire at any particular time.
Especially since you stated that the "other" AR would ideally be a SBR setup. You'll be hard-pressed to buy a complete SBR of good quality AND get the SBR lower stamped for less than $1,200. You're looking for something less than $1,000 for a COMPLETE SBR. Most quality SBR uppers I have seen recently are approaching $900 or higher. I couldn't build a complete lower for $100 right now, don't know about you...
Just my $.02 here, but I don't think your "ideal" rifle would happen in your stated budget...
~Bobby
I was going to suggest buying the optic that makes you comfortable, in this case, the ACOG. Put what money you have left into another UPPER, where you can easily change out the uppers for whichever configuration you desire at any particular time.
Especially since you stated that the "other" AR would ideally be a SBR setup. You'll be hard-pressed to buy a complete SBR of good quality AND get the SBR lower stamped for less than $1,200. You're looking for something less than $1,000 for a COMPLETE SBR. Most quality SBR uppers I have seen recently are approaching $900 or higher. I couldn't build a complete lower for $100 right now, don't know about you...
Just my $.02 here, but I don't think your "ideal" rifle would happen in your stated budget...
~Bobby
Well, I cannot actually do a sbr in my state, so I would have to do a pistol. That is whay I think I might just get an acog at a good price, buy a stripped lower, and decide if I want to build it for a pistol, or a 2nd rifle. I know many think pistol ar is useless, but I can manage to shoulder them, and while I would much perfer an sbr, it aint going to happen right now.
Well this is my theory. Get 1 gun to maximized potential before buying a 2nd. You already have a great base gun, and an optic. Training, practice and ammo are next. If your skill level is where you want to be, go for a 2nd gun. If you live in an area with a lot of exposed distance or just enjoy shooting longer ranges, I'd opt for an acog, maybe a QD mount for both optics. Just my $.02.
I would buy the second rifle or at least start buying it with a good quality lower such as LMT or BCM.
Another option you might want to consider is buyer a low magnification variable optic like a Leupold VX-R, Leupold Mark 4, or Vortex Viper PST. Especially with the VX-R and Viper PST are in the $450-$500 range you can buy that and pick up a lower and still have money left over for your upper.
Get another rifle then a variable power scope when the funds are available.
OP, this is the way I think I would go, hell , I mean I've gone before. The acog is a top notch piece of equipment. Nuff said. But, I prefer variable power scopes. Im just used to it I guess. And you said you already have a T1 so you would be good in the optic department with any well made scope. If your heart is set on an acog, I can't change your mind and I would be hard pressed to come up with reasons why you should not.
The pistol ar is a little unwieldy so I wouldn't go that route, unless a move to a friendlier state is on the agenda soon to sbr that puppy.
In the end it's your cash...
Well, I went ahead and ordered the acog, only to find out that it was on backorder 4-6 weeks. It was from botach, I know there rep, but so far I have had good luck with them. So I am having them cancle the order and Now I will have to think about what to do again. Pretty much anywhere who has it in stock wants more money for it. Anyway, the thrill of it is gone and has me rethinking, maybe it is a good think. After all, the t-1 takes care of 95% of anything I would expect to run into.
Dude, Grant has three for sale right now in the Equipment Exchange well within your price range. Including a mini one that I would snatch up in a heartbeat if I had the 650ish bucks.
I had the same choice not to long ago. I decided I needed the ACOG since I didn't have any optics on my RECCE 16 at all. A investment in another rifle would probably be a good idea as well. You could sell it at a later date and make money off of it if this year is anything like 2008.
I'd personally go with a second rifle especially if you plan on taking a class or two in the future. It's always good to have a backup, and unless you are regularly shooting out beyond 200yds, the T1 is a great optic for what most people shoot. I'd rather have two rifles with one nice optic, than two scopes with only one rifle.
Well, we will see what happens. My wife may have killed the idea altogether. If you are married, you probably know what I am talking about.
Tact.medic
03-29-12, 21:20
I'd buy a 2nd rifle, I would rather have a backup weapon than one really blinged out gun that will be useless if it has a major issue. I'd make sure my Iron sights were zero'd and really make an effort to shoot the shit out of my weapon with just those sights, then use your current optic and do the same. An ACOG is a good optic (I have one on my sevice M4) but for the price of a new one you can buy a really decent rifle. Also think of this.... The rifle will most times hold it value better than an optic like the ACOG, good luck either way...
Tact
SilverTongueDevil
03-30-12, 00:50
I always hate buying an optic but once I do I am glad I did..
Its just taking that step doing it thats painful.
HawaiianM4
03-30-12, 02:24
I have an ACOG 4XTA31RCO-M4CP. Great clarity, gather light very well and the BDC and 4x really helps at 200+ yards. It cost alot but is great. I would finish the build with a really good optic and then move on to the next build. Good optics make a world of difference with a quality m4. Average or cheap optics degrade the quality and usefullness of a m4. For barrels on a m4 I like a true 16' inch barrel. 14.5" barrels are fine until you want to change flash hiders and find it is soldered on!
Best of luck on the build.
. . . . and maybe a spare bolt for my current rifle.
I will have to think about it.
Sounds like you don't have many spare parts on hand. I'd correct that pronto. Get a spare complete BCG, a complete LPK, and a spare buffer spring. Also, order an extra set of gas rings, as those will need replacement first in all likelihood.
Two is one, and one is none. But if you have the parts kit to bring none back to one, you're doing better.
And IMO get the optic. (after the parts kit)
This is why I hate these threads. Most of the responses I saw didn't recommend an optic, yet you decided to get one anyways.
Then you complain that people are asking too high a price for the ACOG's. They aren't cheap, that's a fact.
So my advice is take your money and put it away until you really know what you need or want.
Well, I went ahead and ordered the acog, only to find out that it was on backorder 4-6 weeks. It was from botach, I know there rep, but so far I have had good luck with them. So I am having them cancle the order and Now I will have to think about what to do again. Pretty much anywhere who has it in stock wants more money for it. Anyway, the thrill of it is gone and has me rethinking, maybe it is a good think. After all, the t-1 takes care of 95% of anything I would expect to run into.
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