View Full Version : Talk me into buying a sbr
I currently own a Larry vickers Daniel defense 16" rifle but have been considering either selling it and buying a factory sbr or buying another upper to make an sbr. What are the benefits of buying a factory sbr vs registering my current lower to use as an sbr?
The benefit of buying a factory SBR is not having your personal info engraved on the lower.
It's been suggested that you should always have a 16" (or 14.5" with perm) on hand.
As mentioned, not having to engrave your lower with your personal info is the primary reason most choose the factory SBR, but a secondary benefit is that you have also a factory gun.
The mechanical simplicity of assembling an AR confuses a lot of people into thinking that "building" them is "easy". Assembling? yes. Making one work? Maybe not. Factor in the tighter range of operational tolerances of an SBR and you're asking for trouble.
What sucks is that by and large the cost of factory SBRs hasn't come down along with factory rifles. When I bought my 6933s they were ~$100 more than a 6920 at the time and that was less than it would have cost me to ship it back and forth and have it engraved.
I would not own an SBR alone, and personally I wouldn't want to have just an SBR and a 16" upper either. Once you SBR your lower in the eyes of the govt. it's always an SBR regardless of the length of the upper that's on it. Will anyone ever know or check? Probably not. But it's as good a reason as any to have a second gun. Which you should have anyway. I like to have identical guns, but absent that I like to have two functionally identical guns with small changes that make one better suited to some tasks than another. A Glock 19 for shooting and OWB carry and a Glock 26 for IWB carry, for example.
Another example (http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/projects---guns/a-tale-of-two-carbines)
Eurodriver
03-29-12, 06:12
I bought complete lowers from BCM and LMT and then SBR'd them adding BCM uppers later. I would not buy a factory SBR, but many do and there's nothing wrong with it.
My trust's name is "In God We Trust". I guess if I was one of those who just had to have a professionally named trust like "Eurodriver Lastname XXX-XX-XXXX 1234 Warehouse Street Seattle, WA" I wouldn't want that engraved on my lower but even still, its my lower and its small engraving. No one is going to see it, or care.
I would get a 2nd lower. Lowers are not that much, and with all the legality of a sbr I think I would want to keep it seperate from my other rifle. If memory serves me correctly you have to notify them when you cross state lines and things like that.
I went with a factory SBR(Noveske with a Switch Block) because I wanted the ability to run it either suppressed or unsuppressed and not have to worry about tinkering with it myself to make it reliable. Yes I probably paid more than I would have the other way but I have peace of mind also.
As mentioned, not having to engrave your lower with your personal info is the primary reason most choose the factory SBR, but a secondary benefit is that you have also a factory gun.
The mechanical simplicity of assembling an AR confuses a lot of people into thinking that "building" them is "easy". Assembling? yes. Making one work? Maybe not. Factor in the tighter range of operational tolerances of an SBR and you're asking for trouble.
What sucks is that by and large the cost of factory SBRs hasn't come down along with factory rifles. When I bought my 6933s they were ~$100 more than a 6920 at the time and that was less than it would have cost me to ship it back and forth and have it engraved.
I would not own an SBR alone, and personally I wouldn't want to have just an SBR and a 16" upper either. Once you SBR your lower in the eyes of the govt. it's always an SBR regardless of the length of the upper that's on it. Will anyone ever know or check? Probably not. But it's as good a reason as any to have a second gun. Which you should have anyway. I like to have identical guns, but absent that I like to have two functionally identical guns with small changes that make one better suited to some tasks than another. A Glock 19 for shooting and OWB carry and a Glock 26 for IWB carry, for example.
Another example (http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/projects---guns/a-tale-of-two-carbines)
I have a registered lower and was going to "remove it from the registry," so to speak. I want to replace the lower with a different one, thus the desire have the original removed. I did a little investigative work and found this info:
According to the ATF NFA Handbook (Sect 2.5 http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/), it's only an SBR when it is configured as such. So, if you are running a barrel of 16 inches (or greater) on a registered SBR lower, it's not an SBR. Remember, it has to be in a configuration that makes it subject to the NFA to be considered an NFA item. Again, this is according to the above referenced section in the NFA Handbook.
So, once I get the stamp back on my new lower, I don't have to notifiy the ATF that the original lower is no longer an SBR (as long as I do not put it in an SBR configuration, it is not longer an SBR).
SBR is the way for handy and practical. I am awaiting a stamp for an 11.5 and have the opportunity to shoot a buddies who has his already... one time and I was sold on the accuracy, power and handiness... The shorty's are a winning combination.
http://www.snipercompany.com/forum/gallery/image.php?album_id=6&image_id=1843
Accurate enough at 200 yards? 5 in less than an inch.
http://www.snipercompany.com/forum/gallery/image.php?album_id=1&image_id=1817
Awaitng stamp, being held by a stamped LEO... Suppressor is already in hand with stamp.
I vote for an SBR in your arsenal. I have both and like the diversification of two completely different rifles. The SBR process is slow and takes time, so you may want a separate lower to register. And that is the main point of the SBR'ing process - you register the LOWER. After you're stamped, you can interchange uppers all day long.
As another poster suggested, buy a second lower first and get your tax stamp first. Leave your current, primary rifle alone. Once you have the stamp in hand, then decide what upper you want to mount.
I just completed a carbine course and used my SBR instead of my much heavier 18" competition rig. A 16" rifle is pretty universal, but a 12.5" and a 18" are two totally different animals. In the end, it's only money. Go spend some! :D
I have two factory SBRs set up just alike except one is a 10.5" LMT and one is a 11.5" BCM.
I have two other lowers I just sent out to have engraved so I can SBR them on a form one. $118 for engraving and return shipping plus $50 to send them out. If I didn't already have the lowers I would have gone factory/form 4 again. Unless you can buy what you want local you need to figure in shipping and transfer fees too. For me about a wash.
Remember two is one, one is none. Having a spare is always a good policy.
I wish I started buying SBRs sooner. Go for it.
Also as stated above the SBR restrictions are not a concern if you want to travel out of state use a 16"+ upper, leaving the NFA upper home and you're good to go. When you come home slap your SBR back on.
I have a registered lower and was going to "remove it from the registry," so to speak. I want to replace the lower with a different one, thus the desire have the original removed. I did a little investigative work and found this info:
According to the ATF NFA Handbook (Sect 2.5 http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/), it's only an SBR when it is configured as such. So, if you are running a barrel of 16 inches (or greater) on a registered SBR lower, it's not an SBR. Remember, it has to be in a configuration that makes it subject to the NFA to be considered an NFA item. Again, this is according to the above referenced section in the NFA Handbook.
So, once I get the stamp back on my new lower, I don't have to notifiy the ATF that the original lower is no longer an SBR (as long as I do not put it in an SBR configuration, it is not longer an SBR).
If that's the case, then all the more reason to buy a factory SBR IMO.
I'm not sure I'd trust that to be the case though, especially when it comes to selling it.
I would never remove a lower from the registry, it's silly and a waste of money. AFAIK there is no requirement to do so. Simply leave the 16" upper in place and enjoy.
People are way overthinking this stuff. The BATFE is giving you a freebie. They are telling you that if you add a 16" upper it is no longer an SBR. So leave it alone.
If you want to sell it then do so. BATFE guidelines clearly spell out it is no longer an SBR. Why complicate things? These guys have plently of stuff to do aside from worrying what upper is on your lower.
I have a registered lower and was going to "remove it from the registry," so to speak. I want to replace the lower with a different one, thus the desire have the original removed. I did a little investigative work and found this info:
According to the ATF NFA Handbook (Sect 2.5 http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/), it's only an SBR when it is configured as such. So, if you are running a barrel of 16 inches (or greater) on a registered SBR lower, it's not an SBR. Remember, it has to be in a configuration that makes it subject to the NFA to be considered an NFA item. Again, this is according to the above referenced section in the NFA Handbook.
So, once I get the stamp back on my new lower, I don't have to notifiy the ATF that the original lower is no longer an SBR (as long as I do not put it in an SBR configuration, it is not longer an SBR).
Rob pretty much covered all the bases.
I would never remove a lower from the registry, it's silly and a waste of money. AFAIK there is no requirement to do so. Simply leave the 16" upper in place and enjoy.
People are way overthinking this stuff. The BATFE is giving you a freebie. They are telling you that if you add a 16" upper it is no longer an SBR. So leave it alone.
If you want to sell it then do so. BATFE guidelines clearly spell out it is no longer an SBR. Why complicate things? These guys have plently of stuff to do aside from worrying what upper is on your lower.
No doubt about it. It is only a SBR if you have a less than 16" barrel. Why worry about it?
From ATF’s website (Mods, please remove if this is too much/inappropriate)
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html#receiver-nfa-transferATF Home
Firearms
Frequently Asked Questions
National Firearms Act (NFA) — Short Barreled Rifles and Shotguns
Q: What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?
While a receiver alone may be classified as a “firearm” under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).
Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA “firearm” pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.
Q: If I remove the short barrel from the registered SBR or SBS, is the receiver still subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations?
If the possessor retains control over the barrel or other parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm would still be subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations. ATF recommends contacting State law enforcement officials to ensure compliance with state and local law.
Q: Does the installation of a barrel over 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA? If so, is this considered a permanent change?
Installation of a barrel greater than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) will remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA provided the registrant does not maintain control over the parts necessary to reconfigure the firearm as a SBR or SBS.
Q: Is it necessary to send notification to ATF and receive acknowledgement that the SBR or SBS has been removed from the purview of the NFA before it may be sold as a GCA firearm?
There is no requirement for the possessor of a registered NFA firearm to notify ATF that the firearm has been removed from the purview of the NFA. However, ATF recommends the possessor notify the NFA Branch of such changes in writing so that the possessor is not mistakenly identified as the owner if the firearm is later used in a crime. If, at the time of transfer, the firearm does not meet the definition of a SBR, it should be transferred without filing the NFA transfer application and without payment of the transfer tax.
Q: If I remove the short barrel from my SBR or SBS, may I move the firearm across state lines without the submission of ATF Form 5320.20, Application to Transport or to Temporarily Export Certain Firearms?
If the registrant retains control over the parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm is still be subject to all requirements of the NFA. ATF recommends contacting law enforcement officials in the destination state to ensure compliance with state and local law.
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