Is the XDm a viable alternative? [Archive]

brickboy240

03-29-12, 10:34

With all the threads on various problems and warts of the recently made Glocks, M&P FS 9 and even the PPQ....does anybody own and shoot the Springfield XDm?

My brother has one of the earlier XD-40 Service models and I have borrowed it on occasion and IO have to admit, it was not a bad shooter. It hit where I was aiming and the thing never hiccuped. The XD-40 had a decent trigger and pointed well. Mags are inexpensive and seem as well made as the pistol and load easy, too.

The newer XDm seems to have improved on the original HS-2000/XD platform. I have handled a few in the store, but never shot one. Seemed well put together and the trigger, while not in the PPQ feel range, was better than most stock Glock triggers I have felt. Lifetime warranty on the gun and Springfield is known for good customer service.

I have two Springfield 1911s and they have been 100% perfect, but I know these are totally different animals than the Croatian made XDm.

Anybody own or shoot the XDm? I see tons of posts and threads on Glock, M&Ps and even HKs but not much info on the XDm.

Is there a glaring reason/problem/wart on the Springfield XDm that I should know about, when tossing it in the mix for my next 9mm service-sized pistol choices?

Just thought I'd ask.

Thanks,

Brickboy240

Dave L.

03-29-12, 10:38

Do a search. You pretty much named all the brands that I would rather own than an XD/m.

...lots of people make the mistake of buying an XD because their uneducated friend owns one.

sammage

03-29-12, 10:40

Had an XD9 years ago, after a couple months sold it for a Glock 19 and never looked back. Lower bore axis, better reliability, parts availability, and many more reasons.

brickboy240

03-29-12, 10:55

Well, I have pretty much made up my mind to just roll the dice on a new Glock 17 and call it good. If all I have to do is MAYBE replace an ejector or extractor....that is just not a big deal. Besides, I am used to the Glock platform (own a 2nd gen G22) and it is somewhat comfortable.

I just recall borrowing my bro's XD-40 and the thing shot well and didn't feel all that bad in the hand.

I figured there HAD to be some glaring reason why almost nobody here talked about or owned XDs....admittedly I just don't know enough about them.

Yeah...I could have asked this on the XD Talk forum...but we all know that many there only know the XD and are pretty biased. they regularly knock the Glock when I know from experience that the Glock is a quality piece.

Too bad...Springfield sure makes this pistol seem attractive. I am probably just going back to Glock. Everything else is just too iffy.

- brickboy240

djmorris

03-29-12, 11:35

Don't bother with XDTalk. I referred to DPMS and Rock River as "junk" on those forums and you would not believe how badly I got jumped on and insulted by probably 20-30 different people within a couple of lousy pages. Talk about needing to justify your purchase! They are the same way if you question the XD/XDM series, obviously.

I'd buy an XD over the XDM but I'd buy alot of other guns over an XD.

brickboy240

03-29-12, 11:48

Yeah, I too looked at Rock River, DPMS and the other 600-800 dollar ARs and am settling on a Colt 6920. Its just not THAT much more dough for the real thing. If the other ARs were 400-600 bucks...ok...I could see buying one if you were just a casual plinker but the price spread is just not enough to fuss over.

Many on XD Talk also poo poo the Glocks and say some outrageous stuff about these pistols. Ok, you might not prefer the grip angle of the Glock over the XD but calling Glocks junk is totally inaccurate.

The XD-40 I borrowed surprised me, but yeah...I often wondered why you never really see them in cops's holsters or being run heavily by many instructors or real operators. There is probably good reasons why this is so.

- brickboy240

Magsz

03-29-12, 11:54

Reliability aside, the gun cannot be racked unless the beaver tail grip safety is depressed.

That is a no go at least for me for anything other than competitive shooting.

BillSWPA

03-29-12, 11:58

Before getting an XD9 for my wife, I took advantage of the rental guns at a local range to try her out on almost every commonly available 9mm, as well as some .380's, some .38 specials, and a .45. The Beretta 92F worked reasonably well, as did a 4" S&W K-frame, but she did not care for DA triggers. The XD worked best for her, helping her to easily do some accurate shooting.

Her father has the same gun. Both guns have hundreds of rounds through them, with 100% reliability and zero problems so far.

I have seen these guns in the holsters of some local police officers employed by a university.

brickboy240

03-29-12, 12:13

Wow...was not aware of that issue with the grip safety.

That is not confidence inspiring and like a mag safety...not something you want on a possible combat pistol.

- brickboy240

Striker

03-29-12, 12:28

Mike Pannone runs an XD45 periodically and says it works fine. You can go to the "Ask the SME" section and read the thread yourself. I also read a very well thought out post from a Dallas SWAT officer that used an XD or XDM for his primary sidearm. He used the gun and seemed to like it quite a bit. Didn't have the problems that others have associated with it, but IIRC, he stayed on top of the maintenance schedule. So those are two opinions that I would consider as well.

Personally, I've run the XD in 9mm and .40 a bit and they handled well, they were definitely accurate and seemed to be reliable, but I didn't push them real hard either. Also, they didn't belong to me and I didn't have to do the maintenance on them, so my impression is simply from a pure shooters point of view.

Go shoot one first. With all the places you can rent a pistol now, there's really no reason not to fire most pistols before you buy one. Even if I shot a pistol in the past; if I'm considering buying one, I'll go back and shoot one again to make sure my impressions from the past still hold. Again, as a shooter only, with a limited amount of exposure, I thought they were fine. I specifically mentioned the reviews earlier because they're from reputable sources that run their guns. That's important to me from a maintenance point of view. I'll be the first to admit that I don't like to tinker, so guns that require the least amount of maintenance and still maintain a certain quality level are the ones that, all around, work for me best. And no, even with the positive shooting impression, they're not on my buy list. For 9mm striker fired pistols, I still think Glock is hard to beat. And yes I do own one.

YMMV, but I go back to try before you buy ANY pistol, do your research, then make up your mind.

C4IGrant

03-29-12, 12:36

Of the mainstream polymer guns, it would be towards the last choice for me (behind Glock, S&W, HK and Walther).

To my knowledge, The XD has never been selected by a large PD, SO or Agency and many times, the reqs are written specifically so that the XD cannot compete. Reason? Cannot say for certain, my guess is that they do not want the grip safety (as something can get lodged in there and stop the gun from working).

So if you have gone through all the guns listed above and came up with a reason not to own any of them, then the XD might be a good choice for you.

C4

brickboy240

03-29-12, 12:46

Honestly, I am thinking about rolling the dice and getting another Glock.

My dealer has brand new Gen 3 G17s for about 475 bucks.

Chances are, I will have a gun that runs well but I might have to replace an extractor or ejector. Small price to pay for the quality of the rest of the gun, if you ask me. The newer made Gen 3s don't have that funky new recoil spring set up...do they?

Yeah, I like the grip on the XDm better, but the G17 is what built Glock's reputation. It is the first and most produced Glock pistol and the most "tested." That is more important than the feel of the grip. I am used to my Gen 2 G22 so the G17 is no stretch. Besides, I already have leather for the G22 and the G17 will slide right in.

The G17 is just "tried and true" and the XDm isn't. I think that is fair in picking a new auto pistol.

- brickboy240

Elessar

03-29-12, 13:20

Not XDM but,....I just brought home a new XD 45 Tactical (5") last week. I had never been interested in the original XDs much before untill handling some recently. While I'd always considered them quite ugly, for some reason they grew on me and now I really like this particular model.

I cannot yet speak to durability and reliability issues, which are of course the most important. I can say that for me, the XD was the only doublestack .45 that fit my hand well. I tried the Glock 21 but it was just too fat for my hand. I also love the "single action" striker on the XD, much prefer it to the glock. The actual trigger break is a bit rough but with practice should become un noticeable. The mag release sucks. Not sure if this is an XD thing or just my pistol. It is hard and gritty, and very difficult with a full mag. Will need to look into this more.

Overall I'm impressed with many aspects. clean slide to frame fit, no "daylight" gaps (cosmetic preference), no sagging dust cover, beefy full metal guide rod, good placement of controls for two handed hold, tight lock up. Even comes with a nice case, mag loader, and a passably functional holster for range use.

I'm hoping this will make a nice platform for a field/brush/hog gun. Already have new rod, ported barrel, and springs to handle some 255 gr 45 Super loads.

djmorris

03-29-12, 13:29

The mag release sucks. Not sure if this is an XD thing or just my pistol. It is hard and gritty, and very difficult with a full mag. Will need to look into this more.

This will change in time. When I had my XD9SC the mag release was almost impossible to engage on a full mag but within a few weeks it was nice and smooth regardless of capacity. Same thing for the slide action; it was really hard to rack initially.

Moltke

03-29-12, 14:05

Austria > Croatia

MaximumPenetration

03-29-12, 14:08

I own 2 XD's and an XDm. They are all fantastic weapons. I've got about 15k rounds though the 4" 45 with no problems, been cleaned about 5 or 6 times. I've owned 3 blocks an had problems with 2 of them, couldn't shoot the other one straight. The only pistol I like better than the xd's is my sig.

texshooter

03-29-12, 14:50

You'll hear tons of people talking poorly about the XDs and XDms. I have owned multiple of both in various calibers. My XDm saw over 5k rounds without a single issue of any kind. I read about all the potential "issues" people were having and just in case purchased some spare parts to keep handy...never had anything break on me or fail. In fact, I intentionally tried to find a way to get parts to fail and couldn't get them to. I'm not judging other manufacturers products...Glocks just don't work for me because of the grip angle and recently their numerous problems. I like the M&P pros but dont have many rounds through them.

I am use to 1911s so for the XDm (which saw the most use of any of my polymer frames) i installed a PRP trigger and the accuracy was superb.

All I can say is I've heard many people talk about issues with the XDm's but havent used them or had any personal issues with them.

Beat Trash

03-29-12, 15:10

I had a chance to put 300 rds through a 9 mm XDM that someone brought to my agency's range. It shot ok, no malfunctions.

But there was nothing about it that made me feel it was superior to a Glock, M&P, PPQ, or an HK. There is a few things about the XDM I didn't care for. Most of all was the grip safety. I'd be concerned about foreign matter getting under it and preventing it from deactivating.

jesuvuah

03-29-12, 15:14

Cant comment on the xd, but the only issues I have heard on glocks have been on the gen 4 glocks. My gen 3 17 and 26 have run flawlessly through thousands of rounds of the most crappiest training ammo.

I honestly doubt I will ever buy a different handgun then a glock. This is coming from someone, that when I started with guns, mocked glocks ans a thug pistol.

grunt0351

03-29-12, 15:41

Ive had 2 xd 45's the first I shot about 1k through it before selling it when I needed some cash the 2nd I still have and have fired approx 500+ rounds through it both were new and I had no gun related failures one casing split in the chamber pulled the casing out kept firing and no other issues. I bought an xdm used about a year ago. It was lightly used and Ive fired about 500 rounds through it without a single ftf/fte no issues. I really like the xd/xdms over the glocks because of the trigger pull is much smoother and I always felt the glock trigger was kind of crappy feeling. I have never had an issue with the grip safety even in the az desert. :)

pr1042

03-29-12, 16:14

I have a XDM that I carry right now but have a M&P9 and Gen 4 17 on the way. Have had no issues with it but it is not cost effective for me. The trigger is a little spongy but a PRP drop in trigger kit and new sights will turn my $525 XDM into a $750 gun.

I can get LE pricing on both Glock and S&W so.......for the cost of 2 XDMs (full size and compact) with upgraded sights, I can get 2 Glocks/M&Ps w/ upgraded sights, 1k rounds of ammo and a Raven (or similar) holster and mag holder. I'm hesitant to mess with the internals of a work gun (although no written policy as of right now) so if the M&P trigger is less than fantastic, I'm going to the Glock if it runs good

Striker

03-29-12, 16:23

Cant comment on the xd, but the only issues I have heard on glocks have been on the gen 4 glocks. My gen 3 17 and 26 have run flawlessly through thousands of rounds of the most crappiest training ammo.

Some people are having problems with later Gen 3 9mm Glocks as well. Same ejector and extractor as the Gen 4 had or has, same problem. Some guns have the problem and some don't. And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but while the 17/19/34 and 26 have all exhibited problems, isn't it the 19 that's had the largest percentage of them?

What I can tell you is Glock CS is easy to work with, though they require you pay the shipping to them if that bothers you.

Desert Fanatic

03-29-12, 17:30

I have a G19, and a XDm 9mm 3.8. They are both good guns obviously, but I am more accurate with the XDm. Probably has a lot to do with the match grade barrel and ergonomics of the handle. For the extra $100-$200 for the XDm, you also get 2 interchangeable backstraps, a holster for both the weapon and another one that holds 2 clips, a speedloader, lock and cleaning brush. Because of all that plus the fact that for a compact, it has a full size handle and is 19+1, I prefer the XDm.

Axcelea

03-29-12, 17:52

Of the main mainstream polymer guns, it would be towards the last choice for me (behind Glock, S&W, HK and Walther).

To my knowledge, The XD has never been selected by a large PD, SO or Agency and many times, the reqs are written specifically so that the XD cannot compete. Reason? Cannot say for certain, my guess is that they do not want the grip safety (as something can get lodged in there and stop the gun from working).

So if you have gone through all the guns listed above and came up with a reason not to own any of them, then the XD might be a good choice for you.

C4

Heard something to the effect that it is also single action (striker is fully cocked and the trigger just releases it) vs Glocks and other guns (double action since the striker is half cocked and the trigger functions to cock it) and double action is often a requirement. Not sure if that story is true but it is true that it is a story. I've also heard of regulations related to grip safeties as well.

Anyway I've posted my criticisms of XD/XDM criticisms before. Mostly seems to be irrelevant/dated information, 2nd hand experience, nothing specific at all/just saying its bad with no reference to anything or experience, personal preference, etc with very little good information against the XD and XDM to damn them the way they seem to be. I will say I've had more issues in fewer rounds then with my Glock 19 where the XDM-9 seems to suffer from magazine feed issues every so often but other than that it seems solid except a few legitimate issues (mostly to do with debris and cost).

I do agree with Grant though. Go through the list and unless there is something that damns Glock, HK, etc then just go with one of them but if they just don't seem to work out then and XD or XDM may be the gun for you.

Packman73

03-29-12, 18:03

I like my wife's XDm9 3.8 a lot. Thinking about getting one to go with my XD45 which also runs like a champ.

Failure2Stop

03-29-12, 18:20

zibby43

03-29-12, 18:51

I really don't get it.
In what aspect does the XD beat any other modern polymer framed pistol? It certainly isn't price or performance.

I do not own an XD (never have). Besides the inability to operate the pistol without deactivating the grip safety (unquestionably a deal breaker for some), in what respects does it not perform similarly to the Glock and M&P pistols?

2theXtreme

03-29-12, 20:16

Thinking about an XD?
Do one-handed double-feed clearance and tell me how much you like it.
Here's what it comes down to to me:
If I believe that I may possibly have to use my pistol with one hand and that I might have to reduce stoppages with one hand (worst case scenario: my support hand), and one pistol is fine in all aspects but regularly fails when it comes to some specific manipulation, that pistol is not meeting my needs.

I really don't get it.
In what aspect does the XD beat any other modern polymer framed pistol? It certainly isn't price or performance.

http://img.tapatalk.com/46ad09fc-08ec-59c6.jpg
Identify

http://img.tapatalk.com/46ad09fc-0903-2632.jpg
Lock Slide

http://img.tapatalk.com/46ad09fc-0911-aca6.jpg
Strip Magazine

http://img.tapatalk.com/46ad09fc-093b-b463.jpg
Rack

http://img.tapatalk.com/46ad09fc-0953-d56b.jpg
Rack

http://img.tapatalk.com/46ad09fc-1046-d745.jpg
Rack

http://img.tapatalk.com/46ad09fc-0989-119f.jpg
Gas it up

http://img.tapatalk.com/46ad09fc-09a4-0527.jpg
Go!!!

ETA: I like it a lot!!!

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

Hogsgunwild

03-29-12, 20:27

What's up with your rear sight alignment?

2theXtreme

03-29-12, 20:34

What's up with your rear sight alignment?

That pic was more so you could see the activated Chamber Indicator. But for you sir...anything...
http://img.tapatalk.com/46ad09fc-0dbd-1a1b.jpg

ETA: Sorry I couldn't get my iPhone to focus on the front sight. It's still learning how to shoot.

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

Hogsgunwild

03-29-12, 20:37

I almost asked if it was an optical illusion but thought "no way, it's too far off". Thanks.

2theXtreme

03-29-12, 20:47

I almost asked if it was an optical illusion but thought "no way, it's too far off". Thanks.

Anytime...

Packman73

03-29-12, 20:49

Great pics! I've never had a problem with that drill either.

Failure2Stop

03-29-12, 20:55

2theXtreme

03-29-12, 20:55

Great pics! I've never had a problem with that drill either.

Thanks. That was like the 3rd or 4th time i've heard that recently, "You can't clear a Double Feed with one hand with the XD(m)." Figured I would go out back and put that rumor (or whatever you want to call it) to rest.

Failure2Stop

03-29-12, 21:01

Thanks. That was like the 3rd or 4th time i've heard that recently, "You can't clear a Double Feed with one hand with the XD(m)." Figured I would go out back and put that rumor (or whatever you want to call it) to rest.

Once again, read my post above.
It isn't a can't, but it is a definate "more difficult to do consistently", especially when things are not going well.

The inability to retract the slide without depressing the grip safety is a strike against the platform, and is a needless inclusion on the gun.

If you are happy with what you have, great, but I do not and will not recommend them to anyone over those that do not have that issue.

Packman73

03-29-12, 21:03

That is difficult with any pistol.

ETA: should have said 'that is difficult for me with any pistol.'

2theXtreme

03-29-12, 21:09

Try it lefty.
I should have included the statement that I expect to be able to accomplish all tasks bilaterally.

When I do it with urgency/stress I miss the grip safety as I push up on the slide stop about 50%.

I'm not trying to demean anyone or say that "I do it combatier" than anyone else, just something that I experienced and witnessed in others.

Lefty? Okay...

http://img.tapatalk.com/46ad09fc-143a-088e.jpg
Identify...

http://img.tapatalk.com/46ad09fc-1463-33bb.jpg
Slide not locked....

http://img.tapatalk.com/46ad09fc-148c-9b35.jpg
Slide locked...

Strip...rack... Yadda yadda yadda.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong...oh wait, yes I am...:)

Just kidding F2S. I understand what you are saying. But that is why we practice! To get those little intricacies down to where we can do them in our sleep. Cause we may have to.

These pics are just to show it is not impossible to clear a Double Feed Malfunction with an XD or XDm. Trickier? Sure. Damn sure not as difficult as clearing one single handed on the AR!

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

2theXtreme

03-29-12, 21:10

Once again, read my post above.
It isn't a can't, but it is a definate "more difficult to do consistently", especially when things are not going well.

The inability to retract the slide without depressing the grip safety is a strike against the platform, and is a needless inclusion on the gun.

If you are happy with what you have, great, but I do not and will not recommend them to anyone over those that do not have that issue.

I posted that at the same time as you. I hadn't read your post yet. But I cleared it all up in my last one.

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

Failure2Stop

03-29-12, 21:13

That is difficult with any pistol.

ETA: should have said 'that is difficult for me with any pistol.'

Stock Gen4 G17.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm174/Fail2Stop/th_2012-03-29_22-10-22_870.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm174/Fail2Stop/?action=view&current=2012-03-29_22-10-22_870.mp4)

sewvacman

03-29-12, 21:18

I own a S&W, Walther and XDM, all fullsize 9mm. I shoot well with all of them. I just shoot a little better with the XDM for some reason. It fits my natural shooting angle is my guess and it is a point and shoot gun for me. It's hard to get rid of a gun like that even when professionals tell you it may break down in 5000 rds. Which is why I have kept mine, but keep the Smith and Walther loaded and in the house to defend my home and the XDM is kept in the safe with other guns that I enjoy shooting.

I've never shot a glock I liked. I always have to adjust my shooting to fit the gun's angle. In other words I had to train constantly to shoot it well. The above mentioned guns need little to no adjustment or training for me. Glock is not junk, it just is not a good fit for me personally.

Guns are a personal choice, but for the money I would go with a M&P 9 w/ Apex trigger and night sights. A lot of Law enforcement has them, lots of aftermarket parts coming out of the woodwork, and plenty of holster choices.

I got mine from Grant at G&R, he installed everything for me at no extra charge and his price was very fair. You are at the XDM price but with Mo' Badassery.

Just my opinion, not to be confused with an educated one.:nono:

Packman73

03-29-12, 21:20

So what we've learned is that there is a strange hate for the Croatian sensation here. Like I've said before; I like it and I trust it, no one else has to do either.;)

Failure2Stop

03-29-12, 21:33

I do not own an XD (never have). Besides the inability to operate the pistol without deactivating the grip safety (unquestionably a deal breaker for some), in what respects does it not perform similarly to the Glock and M&P pistols?

That's my point.
It does about as well as the rest, but it has a critical flaw, and unless it had some feature or characteristic that was identifiably better than other similar pistols, I don't see a need to have to deal with that issue. If it was priced comparably to HiPoints, I would own a shelf full of them.
If they came stock with great sights and a great barrel or trigger, it might be worth the trade-off.
Even if they did, and at the price of a Glock, it would be up to the user how critical that flaw is.
Given that they all cost about the same, perform about the same, and weigh about the same, if I am going to give a recommendation, it's going to be for the one that doesn't have that issue.

2theXtreme

03-29-12, 21:50

XDm of the .45 variety. First take I swear!

http://youtu.be/HqPD8ZEiT64?hd=1

It really is as simple as any other weapon. Align that 2nd knuckle on the Slide Stop and keep constant up preasure until it locks. I can't recall ever thinking about the grip safety while manipulating my weapon.

Failure2Stop

03-29-12, 21:56

2theXtreme

03-29-12, 22:00

That's my point.
It does about as well as the rest, but it has a critical flaw, and unless it had some feature or characteristic that was identifiably better than other similar pistols, I don't see a need to have to deal with that issue. If it was priced comparably to HiPoints, I would own a shelf full of them.
If they came stock with great sights and a great barrel or trigger, it might be worth the trade-off.
Even if they did, and at the price of a Glock, it would be up to the user how critical that flaw is.
Given that they all cost about the same, perform about the same, and weigh about the same, if I am going to give a recommendation, it's going to be for the one that doesn't have that issue.

I totally get what you are saying. From my personal experience. When i first got into guns I went to the range and rented all the weapons that i thought I might like glock being at the top of the list. I tried them all out without any biased opinions I chose the XDm because I loved the way it felt in my hand. I loved the way it pointed for me. I loved the way it shot. I loved the way it looked.

Everybody has their own body and certain things may or may not work for them or be comfortable to them. But you can't just go and say "Never buy this because it has this unnecessary safety!" Let them go try it out and see how they like it compared to other weapons.

To be completely honest I was researching the heck out of Glocks because I was sure that was what I was going to get because that is the most popular gun. It's pretty much all you ever here about. But it ended up not being my favorite so I didn't get it.

Don't rule out anything without hard and fast evidence first is all I am asking.

Desert Fanatic

03-29-12, 22:01

Identify

Lock Slide

Strip Magazine

Rack

Rack

Rack

Gas it up

Go!!!

ETA: I like it a lot!!!

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

I like mine a lot too. Great job of responding in a specific, detailed, diagramed manner to one of the main, legitimate complaints lodged against the XDm. Not to be disrespectful to an expert, but this was AWESOME! Now I know how to do this too. Thanks for a great post!

2theXtreme

03-29-12, 22:04

If it's workin for ya, there isn't much argument.
It just doesn't do so for many others.

Yeah. I could see how if your hands aren't the right size that could potentially be an issue. Definitely one reason why you should try before you buy for sure.

Failure2Stop

03-29-12, 22:07

I like mine a lot too. Great job of responding in a specific, detailed, diagramed manner to one of the main, legitimate complaints lodged against the XDm. Not to be disrespectful to an expert, but this was AWESOME! Now I know how to do this too. Thanks for a great post!

The issue is lefty, and is highly variable when compared to other pistols. If you read what I have written, I have never said that it was impossible with the left side.

2theXtreme

03-29-12, 22:12

I like mine a lot too. Great job of responding in a specific, detailed, diagramed manner to one of the main, legitimate complaints lodged against the XDm. Not to be disrespectful to an expert, but this was AWESOME! Now I know how to do this too. Thanks for a great post!

Thanks. Glad I could be of some help with your improvement! Makes me feel all good inside!:D

Yeah, I never want to be disrespectful to anybody, expert or not. I do like to learn from and inform anybody though. Expert or not.

Desert Fanatic

03-29-12, 22:28

The issue is lefty, and is highly variable when compared to other pistols. If you read what I have written, I have never said that it was impossible with the left side.

I hear ya. While I respect your knowledge as an expert, I don't have the same high pressure, extreme circumstances facing me on a regular basis. My interest in guns has always been based on protecting my home, plinking in the desert with my family & friends, practice at the range and maintenance/stripping down/cleaning. Again, my original post had as much to do with the accuracy and barrel as it did about the ergonomics of the handle. It's really about if everything lines up for you in an appropriate manner, IMHO.

Dave-HuldraArms

03-29-12, 22:32

I recently picked up a Xdm 5.25 in 9mm. While I like it, Im not in love with it yet. I picked it up for a possible pistol to use in some of the upcoming service categories that are starting to arise in 3 gun. In some of those classes they limit mags to flush, no extensions, and the 19 rnd capacity is attractive. The gun also is starting to get some, still small, market in production/stock classes from what I have seen. All that being said, 17 rnds on my glock isn't really that big of a deal and for me, so far, I still shoot my Glock a lot better then my Xdm. No doubt the Xdm is a nice pistol but Im not sure I would run it for anything other then a range pistol or competition pistol at this point. I knew a few officers that carried the XDs and switched to Glocks and haven't looked back. Some said they liked the XD accuracy but never fell in love with it. Ill keep mine around for the collection but what purpose it will have is to be determined.

All in all, I've seen them both XD and XDms in class and they ran fine and the shooters were able to run them well. I think they are a quality pistol but there will always be that grip safety. One argument I hear a lot regarding that is 1911s have grip safeties so whats the big deal. While similar they are different platforms and the way the grip safeties are shaped and depress are different between the two.

Just my 2 cents.
Take care,
Dave

Desert Fanatic

03-29-12, 22:36

By the way, I'm new here (as if you couldn't tell by my number of posts), and I was going to see if I could find different opinions about why people liked/dislike the XDm, specifically the 9mm 3.8, and when I stumbled on this thread, I couldn't resist getting involved. Good exchange of info. Thanks all. Good night and God bless.

zibby43

03-29-12, 22:49

That's my point.
It does about as well as the rest, but it has a critical flaw, and unless it had some feature or characteristic that was identifiably better than other similar pistols, I don't see a need to have to deal with that issue. If it was priced comparably to HiPoints, I would own a shelf full of them.
If they came stock with great sights and a great barrel or trigger, it might be worth the trade-off.
Even if they did, and at the price of a Glock, it would be up to the user how critical that flaw is.
Given that they all cost about the same, perform about the same, and weigh about the same, if I am going to give a recommendation, it's going to be for the one that doesn't have that issue.

That makes sense. I was just curious as to whether, aside from the grip safety, the XD pistols were encumbered with any other operational/construction-related flaws/shortcomings that clearly cast them in a tier below established platforms such as the Glocks and M&Ps (aside from the 9s . . .).

After further reading, it really seems that the primary complaint (aside from aesthetic complaints) is the grip safety. However, I do appreciate and realize that the grip safety component is at the end of the day, just another component on the gun that really does not need to be there and presents the opportunity to pose problems otherwise non-existent with polymer-framed pistols without that feature.

Appreciate your thoughts.

Striker

03-29-12, 23:28

I hear ya. While I respect your knowledge as an expert, I don't have the same high pressure, extreme circumstances facing me on a regular basis. My interest in guns has always been based on protecting my home

Certainly you're not going to be in harms way as much as F2S is or was ( I don't know how active you still are), but if you have to defend your life against someone trying to do great bodily harm to you, or worse, trying to kill you; it's still going to be a fast moving, violent situation. If you get hurt in the process, it's worse yet. Have you ever done any ring or cage fighting? If so, you know what it's like when you get hammered with a couple of good shots. It can turn a rather uneventful night into a scramble just to survive and that guy isn't trying to bury you; he's just trying to trying to knock you out and just happens to be turning your face bones into mush at the same time.

You might have a ton of fighting experience and I don't know it as you haven't really said, but if you do, you know that operating when you're hurt and being stalked is much different than anything you can simulate. This, IMHO, is what makes combative sports so valuable to someone who's serious about defending himself. Firearms training is valuble, no doubt about that, but can't come close to simulating injury. In the ring or the cage, you're not just simulating it; it's a real injury, and luckily the other guy probably isn't going to kill you, but he isn't moving towards you to shake your hand either.

Just a thought. YMMV.

Alex F

03-30-12, 08:14

The grip safety is the main reason I'd never own one given an option.

I despise grip safeties.

C4IGrant

03-30-12, 09:02

Failure2Stop

03-30-12, 09:03

After further reading, it really seems that the primary complaint (aside from aesthetic complaints) is the grip safety. However, I do appreciate and realize that the grip safety component is at the end of the day, just another component on the gun that really does not need to be there and presents the opportunity to pose problems otherwise non-existent with polymer-framed pistols without that feature.

There were issues with spare/replacement parts, but I haven't stayed in the loop on those issues, might be solved now.

brickboy240

03-30-12, 10:19

Striker

03-30-12, 11:26

(note to self)

Never ask about the XD around here....I now know why there are so few threads on the thing.

I guess, since I have 4 1911s and it has never bothered me there, I did not notice the grip safety on the XD-40 I borrowed. I also was not aware that unlike the 1911, if you don't hold it down...you cannot unlock the slide. That IS an odd feature. Anyone ever pinned their grip safety down on an XD?

As a rule...no...I am not really a fan of such "safety" devices like the grip safety that locks the slide or a mag safety. I can honestly see how that could get you killed in the right situation.

I really think I am going with what I already know and rolling the dice on a new Gen 3 G17. At the worst I might have to swap an ejector or extractor...but I might get lucky and get a perfect one. I have always had good luck with Glocks and my G22 is the most trouble free pistol I have ever owned...so a new 3rd gen G17 is probably the route I am going. My local dealer has them in stock for around 475....not bad.

Good to hear all the reviews and aspects of the XD...many things covered that I would not have seen without you all's help...thanks!

- brickboy240

LOL. If I were thinking of buying an XD/XDM and considering finding a way to keep the grip safely mechanically depressed permanently, I would ask myself if it's a better mousetrap. Before I go to all of that trouble, what does it do better than a Glock or M&P or HK etc. Personally, unless I'm gaining something in the process, I wouldn't go to the trouble of working that out. Now, if you just want the XDM, than get it. Nothing wrong with just wanting something. Like with every pistol understand what it's strengths are and what it's weaknesses are and ask yourself if the combination will work for you.

brickboy240

03-30-12, 11:52

Very true.

The only thing I seemed to be gaining would be a little better grip angle.

That said...one small feature does not outweigh my longtime good experience with my first Glock and my familiarity with said platform.

If I actually saw tons of pros and operators dumping the Glock and never going back in favor of the XD or other striker fired pistol...I might change but that is simply not happening.

I am sure it is fine for some people...but in reality, the XD does nothing else a tried and true G17 won't do.

- brickboy240

Packman73

03-30-12, 12:51

Funny, there is a long-time member of XDtalk that goes by brickboy240...

charmcitycop

03-30-12, 15:48

I really don't get it.
In what aspect does the XD beat any other modern polymer framed pistol? It certainly isn't price or performance.

It's not a Glock. For whatever reason gun people have this strange aversion to the "standard". Nobody wants to buy a Colt AR, a Colt 1911, an Aimpoint, an EOTech, an ACOG, name brand rails, lights, etc. Some gun people want to believe that they have tapped into a secret knowledge & are beating the "system."

Kokopelli

03-30-12, 15:57

Packman73

03-30-12, 16:14

It's not a Glock. For whatever reason gun people have this strange aversion to the "standard". Nobody wants to buy a Colt AR, a Colt 1911, an Aimpoint, an EOTech, an ACOG, name brand rails, lights, etc. Some gun people want to believe that they have tapped into a secret knowledge & are beating the "system."

Or, 'there are many ways to skin a cat'...What works for you might not be what's best for me...
One is not inherently better than another in this case. It's just preference and not a big deal. This thread is getting boring.:rolleyes:

shutup&shoot

03-30-12, 18:23

Desert Fanatic

03-30-12, 21:28

Certainly you're not going to be in harms way as much as F2S is or was ( I don't know how active you still are), but if you have to defend your life against someone trying to do great bodily harm to you, or worse, trying to kill you; it's still going to be a fast moving, violent situation. If you get hurt in the process, it's worse yet. Have you ever done any ring or cage fighting? If so, you know what it's like when you get hammered with a couple of good shots. It can turn a rather uneventful night into a scramble just to survive and that guy isn't trying to bury you; he's just trying to trying to knock you out and just happens to be turning your face bones into mush at the same time.

You might have a ton of fighting experience and I don't know it as you haven't really said, but if you do, you know that operating when you're hurt and being stalked is much different than anything you can simulate. This, IMHO, is what makes combative sports so valuable to someone who's serious about defending himself. Firearms training is valuble, no doubt about that, but can't come close to simulating injury. In the ring or the cage, you're not just simulating it; it's a real injury, and luckily the other guy probably isn't going to kill you, but he isn't moving towards you to shake your hand either.

Just a thought. YMMV.

Thanks for the advice. I apreciate you looking out for your fellow forum members. Just a small blurb about me: I spent my childhood in East Los Angeles and grew up constantly fighting in the streets just to survive. I spent a year in jail (should have been only a couple of months, but not being from a gang in LA County you pay the price, and having time added to your sentence because you are fighting to protect yourself in jail is only one of many) due to a fight where i was defending myself from somebody who was trying to stab me. I broke his wrist in a panic to make the guy drop his weapon and went overboard in the process. There are other circumstances where life and death hung in the balance, etc., but I should point out that I have never been in a gang and am not a career criminal. Sad but true, but even the good guys in the ghetto still have to find a way to survive. That is all behind me now. These days, I enjoy spending time with my family, but some things you never forget, like protecting yourself and making sure your assailant can't get up to finish the job. I was actually seriously thinking about getting some tactical training and maybe an AR course, etc. just for the experience and to be better prepared to do my diligence in an ever-changing community climate, especially in times when people become increasingly desperate and willing to take penitentary chances for their own perceived necessity. Thanks for the advice!

VIP3R 237

03-30-12, 22:00

Some of my first pistols were xd's mostly because thats what my dad liked and I really didnt have an opinion back then. They were decent pistols and my only problem was magazines sticking on my .40. At the time I never really cared for glock mostly because I had little experience with them until I had opportunity to pick up a gen2 23 for $250. Well to make a long story short I sold my xd's and bought more glocks. For me they shot better, didnt have a grip safety, and had more aftermarket support. now my dad is opposite of me, he shoots his xd's and now xdm's better than with a glock. To each his own right?

SpookyPistolero

03-30-12, 22:19

I had an XD9 for a while. Liked the ergos, grip angle, and shot it well. Trigger was sloppy with poor reset. Unfortunately whenever I ran it at match pace, it started going TU. Stuck with Glock in the long run.

AKDoug

03-31-12, 00:04

Weakhand operations are not incredibly difficult, but they definitely require you to develop a technique that works for you. At least the slide lock is bigger than the Glocks, which gives me a ton of trouble when trying to lock the slide back weakhand.

Vash1023

03-31-12, 00:20

ive had both the XD9mm(5") and the XDm 9mm.

only ever shot on the range, always clean.
never had one failure of any kind.

but after switching to glocks, ill never go back.

High Altitude

03-31-12, 01:08

I think the XD(m) is an OK pistol, but not near the top of my list. Four items I don't like. I have seen several magazine failures, I don't like the trigger (agree with spooky, sloppy and poor reset), they are on the heavy side, and the grip safety makes no sense to me in its current configuration.

I say give it a better striker fired trigger setup and remove the grip safety.

OR

Give it a better SAO 1911ish trigger, add a thumb safety and keep the grip safety, but let the slide operate whether the grip safety is depressed or not.

High Altitude

03-31-12, 01:11

Brickboy I thought your screen name looked familiar.

I'm a member at XDTalk also.

Remember, you don't have to own a Springfield to hang out there. (even though we do get some grief about our Glocks sometimes)

I was researching XD(m)s over at XDtalk some time ago and started to read a big thread on what you carry etc... Lots of XD guys posting talked about the XDs they owned and like to shoot, but carried glocks.....kinda says something.

2theXtreme

03-31-12, 01:53

Why is everybody making such a big deal about the grip safety!? It is getting old. It seems like one person said something about it (probably some " operator") and everybody is jumping on the band wagon.

The grip safety is not what everybody is saying it is. I like to think that I train with my weapon more than your average shooter whether it be at home or the range or comps and I have not once consciously thought about the grip safety while running the gun. Ever. The gun would function exactly the same without it. All weapon manipulations are done with a full firing grip anyway. And if you really want to get specific with the Reaction Hand Double Feed. You don't even need to depress the grip safety to lock the slide back if it has a double feed. See...http://img.tapatalk.com/446808ae-a5ec-173e.jpg
The grip safety is a moot point! It doesn't matter.

Find something else to pick on about the XD(m) line. Like the fact you don't like the grip angle, or you don't like the ergonomics, or you don't like the trigger reach. Find something that carries some weight and stop jumping on to what everyone else says.

It is nice to have that grip safety when I am picking my weapon up out of a safe or placing it in a holster not on my person. If I stay off the back of the gun it isn't going to fire. Even if I do accidentally slip a finger into the trigger guard. Little peace of mind.

This post is not meant to be at anyone specific. As much as you may like it to be, it is not. Just tired of hearing about the grip safety is all. Everyone have a nice night.

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

vicious_cb

03-31-12, 03:27

Why is everybody making such a big deal about the grip safety!? It is getting old. It seems like one person said something about it (probably some " operator") and everybody is jumping on the band wagon.

The gun would function exactly the same without it. All weapon manipulations are done with a full firing grip anyway.

An injury to the arm or hand can prevent you from depressing the grip safety.There was a thread on TOS where someone documented his CCW shooting where he could not depress the grip safety on his 1911 because he was shot in the hand. I believe he got his 1911 grip safety pinned after that. And thats in an extreme case. Sometimes in competition when that buzzer goes off and I try to do a draw at 200 MPH Ill get a really low grip on my M&P, low enough that if it were equipped with a grip safety I might have had some issues. Grip safeties matter.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/988015_My_CCW_Shooting_AAR__Now_with_Moar_Graphic_Pics_on_pg_29_and_30.html

Freezerman1

03-31-12, 06:56

Grip safety is a non issue. The xdm grip safety takes very little pressure to activate. For me the trigger was the deal breaker. Sold mine and do not regret it.

2theXtreme

03-31-12, 11:38

An injury to the arm or hand can prevent you from depressing the grip safety.There was a thread on TOS where someone documented his CCW shooting where he could not depress the grip safety on his 1911 because he was shot in the hand. I believe he got his 1911 grip safety pinned after that. And thats in an extreme case. Sometimes in competition when that buzzer goes off and I try to do a draw at 200 MPH Ill get a really low grip on my M&P, low enough that if it were equipped with a grip safety I might have had some issues. Grip safeties matter.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/988015_My_CCW_Shooting_AAR__Now_with_Moar_Graphic_Pics_on_pg_29_and_30.html

That is a very gripping story right there. And a perfect example of why we do what we do. With that said, if you happen to get shot in both of your hands it just was not your day. The grip safeties on these to weapons systems are different though. I've seen guys miss the grip safety on 1911s with a perfect firing grip. I just don't see how you could be able to hold an XD(m) and not activate that safety. Aside from gripping too low. In which case you should probably slow it down to 150 and get that perfect firing grip before you draw :).

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

gringop

03-31-12, 15:38

Why is everybody making such a big deal about the grip safety!? It is getting old. It seems like one person said something about it (probably some " operator") and everybody is jumping on the band wagon.

The grip safety is a moot point! It doesn't matter.

I just don't see how you could be able to hold an XD(m) and not activate that safety. Aside from gripping too low. In which case you should probably slow it down to 150 and get that perfect firing grip before you draw .

It's not a factor unless you have an injury, want to go fast or shoot and manipulate the slide in an unconventional position. Then it is a factor.

XD shooters, have fun and shoot the heck out of them. Come out and compete against me. Carry them and protect your loved ones. Clean them and caress their glorious grip safety.

Just don't tell others that the sky is green and the grass is blue. We ain't gonna believe it.

Gringop

2theXtreme

03-31-12, 20:02

The sky is blue during the day and the grass is green when it's alive and my XDm is better for me then all of those comparable polymer pistols.

Ill be happy to say I am wrong if I am ever proven so but until then it's Springfield all the way for me.

Better then read a thread or use popularity to decide on a weapon, go shoot 'em!

I'll gladly let you borrow mine! :)

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

cdvanns

03-31-12, 21:52

High Altitude

03-31-12, 23:10

Wonder how many XD's /XDM's are ejecting casings back into the face of the shooter? Wonder how many of the actual CCW public are actual trained gunfighters? Wonder how many people have died because of the grip safety on an XD? Wonder how many people like cake and how many like pie? I'm in the market for a new 9mm and I would like to get a G19 but right now it's like going to Vegas so "GLOCK CO." I'm waiting on you to convince me my $500 wouldn't be a gamble.

The best thing about glock is that they have been producing top notch pistols for so long it is very easy to go out there and find a used one.

Purchased a 19 made in 2006 with austrian proof marks that had maybe a box of ammo through it. Has all the best parts, shoots perfect and cost less than a new pistol.

My LGS on Friday had a gen2 17 on consignment for $339. I bet that pistol runs perfect and for 339 dollars IMHO there is no better performance vs dollar out there. Used glocks are where it is at.

Stop wasting time, go out and get what you want.

cdvanns

03-31-12, 23:47

I've been shooting an XD45c for the last few yrs. and I like it, soon I'll be able to carry it as I'm waiting by the mailbox everyday for my permit. I want a G19 in the line up and "High Alt." if I could find a nice older (Gen.2or3) I may pull the trigger! Got my eyes open and my ears on...LOL!

AKDoug

03-31-12, 23:49

vicious_cb

04-01-12, 01:29

Shot in the hand and can't compress the grip safety on a 1911? If you can't get the grip safety down, how are you going to shoot? Switch to the other hand and keep going. There is unlucky shit that goes on in gun fights. My bro-in law has had a M4 lower shot right through the magwell. One of my mentors as a young man was shot through his forearm and exited out through his upper arm on his strong side. The weak grip resulted in a stovepipe jamb in his 1911. He transitioned to his weak hand, cleared the jamb, while eating another shot to the guts, and finished the other guy. The bad guy died, my friend lived. Still carries a 1911 to this day, with a functioning grip safety.

Indeed but to go all out and say a grip safety is a non-issue is completely false. There are SME's on this very board that will tape, strap, pin their 1911 grip safeties just because of a simple matter of the grip safety catching when wearing gloves. Whether or not you choose to roll with a grip safety or not is up to you but to say its a non-issue is a stretch.

MaximumPenetration

04-01-12, 03:20

BigRed82

04-01-12, 03:53

Wow. So many XD haters. That's when you know you're winning. When the haters are surrounding you looking up from the bottom. Glock used to be the best. They haven't kept up with advancements. I love me some Springfield.

I wouldn't call an unnecessary grip safety, high bore axis, semi-decent trigger break, or a shabby reset "advancements" by any stretch of the imagination. It's great that you and other XD owners like them. Everyone is happy for you. The rest of us are just trying to answer the OP's question as honestly as possible, which was legitimately answered in the second post.

The OP asked if the XDm was a viable alternative - correct answer is: If you hate all of your other options, yes.

NCPatrolAR

04-01-12, 08:54

2theXtreme

04-01-12, 10:51

Wow this one has headed downhill really fast.

Why does it have to be, "If you hate all the other ones...yes." Why can't it be, "If you like the XD(m) more then the other options yes it is a viable alternative."

We don't have to be so negative to get the point across.

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

Crow Hunter

04-01-12, 14:14

Re Grip Safeties.

My brother used to have a XD .40. He carried it riding ATVs one time. Afterwards he came to the house and we were going to shoot. He went to the line and nothing happened. Then he noticed the grip safety wouldn't depress. Looked like there was some good TN sand/mud caught between the grip and the bottom of the safety.

So he went to unload it,strip it and clean it out. Drop the mag, but can't get the slide to move to clear it.....

Hmm....:rolleyes:

So after about 15 min of VERY CAREFUL work with a pocket knife and water we dislodged that grit that had imbedded in the plastic when he gripped it for firing and tried "gripping it out". :(

Yes, he did carry it in an open topped holster while playing in a mud bog. And maybe we were doing something wrong, but it really shook his confidence.

He got rid of it that following Monday.

Of course, YMMV.

High Altitude

04-01-12, 19:04

The more features or items hanging off a pistol, the more possibility for failures.

I read this at another form talking about 1911s/grip safety.....

I know it doesn't pertain to the XD, but it shows that if a pistol platform has more places to fail, eventually it will.

Poster was Mike1956/forum was defensivecarry.
In the same thread, another poster, DRM, posted that he had the exact same thing happen to him before.

I had an experience with my Kimber which led me to abandon the platform as my EDC and switch to something less complex and subject to malfunction.
While firing on my range on a cold and windy November day, the sleeve of my field jacket somehow managed to get blown forward at the exact instant I fired. As the hammer cocked, it pinched the edge of my sleeve between it and the beaver tail/grip safety. The pistol was rendered inoperable, and it was only with extreme caution and difficulty that I was able to unattach it from my jacket sleeve with a round in the chamber, the slide within a hairbreadth of battery,the grip safety shoved down in the "fire" position, and the thumb safety un-engageable.

Re Grip Safeties.

My brother used to have a XD .40. He carried it riding ATVs one time. Afterwards he came to the house and we were going to shoot. He went to the line and nothing happened. Then he noticed the grip safety wouldn't depress. Looked like there was some good TN sand/mud caught between the grip and the bottom of the safety.

So he went to unload it,strip it and clean it out. Drop the mag, but can't get the slide to move to clear it.....

Hmm....:rolleyes:

So after about 15 min of VERY CAREFUL work with a pocket knife and water we dislodged that grit that had imbedded in the plastic when he gripped it for firing and tried "gripping it out". :(

Yes, he did carry it in an open topped holster while playing in a mud bog. And maybe we were doing something wrong, but it really shook his confidence.

He got rid of it that following Monday.

Of course, YMMV.

2theXtreme

04-01-12, 20:47

Yeah. That first story has absolutely nothing to do with the topic and hand.

The 2nd one though is very valuable information.

Thank god I live in the desert where the is dirt but no water to make it mud!

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

Failure2Stop

04-01-12, 21:05

I'm going to let everybody in on a dirty little secret.

All guns suck.

In one way or another, they all have AT LEAST one major strike against them.

If you are buying a pistol, do your due dilligence and FIND OUT what the critical flaw(s) is/are, and if you are willing to accept them.

If you think you found a flawless firearm, keep looking, you just haven't found the problem yet.

Last time I personally had an XD in my hand was well over 5 years ago. I distinctly remember having issues with the grip safety and locking the slide to the rear with my left hand. I didn't take copious notes, photographs, or commit everything to memory, as the XD was a niche pistol then, and I had no real interest in replacing anything with it. I have witnessed several people having issues with the gun at ranges and during matches with slide retraction and the grip safety, but I don't interject myself into people's personal space unless I am being paid to do it or if they ask for my help. So, if the slide can be retracted and locked without touching the grip safety as long as the slide is not fully in battery, I will completely drop my criticism about those actions. I will also add that there are double-feed clearance techniques that render the slide catch irrelevant, and that would be my default technique if I carried an XD for whatever reason. However, the general issue with a grip safety, especially one that prevents slide retraction if not depressed, is a strike against the platform. Maybe you don't care about that, maybe you do. Does it make it a complete waste of money? No. But it also knocks it out of my "go to" list of pistols.

Grip angle.
Generically, it means nothing. Learning to shoot the Glock grip angle versus the 1911 grip angle really doesn't make a difference. What DOES make a difference is what other pistols you also want to be able to shoot well, specifically, be able to be effective and efficient with presentations, especially from the holster. If you shoot a wide variety of pistols, the Glock grip angle will work against the presentation of other pistols, and vice versa. If you are a platform purist, or simply shoot other pistols for fun, the grip angles don't matter once you get used to them.
When I used to shoot M9s, M1911s, and Glocks (and then added P226s to the mix), I would have to spend time with each platform before a match, training evolution, or testing session to get the rough skills back. However, if I had been able to stay with one platform that time I wasted on refreshing the basics could have been spend on honing finer skills.

cdvanns

04-01-12, 22:14

Failure2Stop

04-02-12, 01:09

Agreed all weapons have faults and can fail for any number of reasons...when we get the stats on XD/XDm related grip safety deaths then we can compare that to other brand failure that led to death as well. Now put em up ...!

When XDs are used by enough people to actually necessitate data gathering on the aspect that led to their user's death I am sure the information will be passed. Right there along with the number of people killed due to the Glock's grip angle, or the M9s slide mounted safety, or the P226s placement of the slide release, or the 1911s low capacity, or the M&Ps early unlock, etc etc ad nauseum.

Just because somebody doesn't have reams of data to point at and say "See!!!! The &@%^#*$ grip safety got these 213 homeowners killed!!!" doesn't mean that one cannot advise someone else to avoid the issue without losing anything at all.

If someone adopted the XDs, understands it faults, and trains with the damn thing, then that is far more important than owning a P30 that has all of 50 rounds through it. It doesn't give the P30 owner the right to talk down to the XD owner like some kind of superior god of war, nor does it give the XD owner the right to fly off the handle because someone points out a flaw in the platform and states that they do not recommend them.

A huge issue is that full understanding of a platform is gained through experience, time, and tens of thousands of rounds. As we have a finite amount of time, most people will not have the time or ammo to become intimately familiar with more than a few platforms, and since most people do not want to bother with the known issues of the XD, there really isn't a lot of data on it from known vetted sources.

C4IGrant

04-02-12, 08:46

Agreed all weapons have faults and can fail for any number of reasons...when we get the stats on XD/XDm related grip safety deaths then we can compare that to other brand failure that led to death as well. Now put em up ...!

We would FIRST have to get a LARGE PD, SO or Agency to adopt said weapon (or the Military). Since they generally right the REQ so that the XD(M) cannot even get into the competition (clue), I don't think we will ever collect such data.

C4

MaximumPenetration

04-02-12, 09:59

I've shot a lot of pistols. I always take the opportunity to try out a gun when someone offers. I've come to the conclusion that running top of the line equipment is where it's at. My SHTF kit includes an XD-45 with about 20k rounds through it without a single hiccup. This is a gun that has been subjected to everything crappy that Alaska has to offer. Snow, mud, dirt, ice at -20 to -30, you name it. It has always worked perfectly. Along with my XD in my SHTF kit is a DDM4 with an Aimpoint PRO. I'm sure you haters think that's trash too. Well more power to you. You guys have the right to hate the best equipment. I appreciate people buying less XD's and keeping the price down so I can continue to add more of them to my collection.

I wouldn't call an unnecessary grip safety, high bore axis, semi-decent trigger break, or a shabby reset "advancements" by any stretch of the imagination. It's great that you and other XD owners like them. Everyone is happy for you. The rest of us are just trying to answer the OP's question as honestly as possible, which was legitimately answered in the second post.

The OP asked if the XDm was a viable alternative - correct answer is: If you hate all of your other options, yes.

C4IGrant

04-02-12, 10:04

I've shot a lot of pistols. I always take the opportunity to try out a gun when someone offers. I've come to the conclusion that running top of the line equipment is where it's at. My SHTF kit includes an XD-45 with about 20k rounds through it without a single hiccup. This is a gun that has been subjected to everything crappy that Alaska has to offer. Snow, mud, dirt, ice at -20 to -30, you name it. It has always worked perfectly. Along with my XD in my SHTF kit is a DDM4 with an Aimpoint PRO. I'm sure you haters think that's trash too. Well more power to you. You guys have the right to hate the best equipment. I appreciate people buying less XD's and keeping the price down so I can continue to add more of them to my collection.

20K of 45ACP?? Wow, that is a lot! How long have you owned this gun??

What maintenance have you done on it? Parts replaced?

C4

brickboy240

04-02-12, 10:17

Wow..this went downhill fast! LOL

Actually, I sort of liked the XD-40 that I borrowed. I got to "borrow" it for a very long time, because my brother is mostly a skeet/shotgun guy and he already has several pistols, so the XD-40 lived with me for almost a year.

The thing DID shoot pretty well. It never malfunctioned...that I can recall.

I just found it odd that for what seemed like a nice pistol, very, very few real "operators" were carrying or using this platform. I also do not see it in many police holsters where I live. Cops around here mostly carry Glocks or SIGs.

Since I am older...I started off with a 2nd gen Glock because when I bought it, there was no XD, M&P or any other polymer pistol except for an expensive and rarely seen HK 9mm. So therefore...I guess I am just used to it.

Glock never changed much over the years...true...but that is one thing I liked about the pistol. They had a system that flat out worked and they did not try to change it (until recently). I like Volvo cars for the same reason - they got an engine and design that was reliable and they stuck with it. Some see decisions like that as stodgy or "not keeping up with the times" but not me.

All of the polymer platforms have a wart here or there. The good thing is we DO have so many choices today.

- brickboy240

MaximumPenetration

04-02-12, 10:21

I replaced the striker roll pin, striker spring, and recoil spring at about 16k rounds. I clean it every time I shoot it and I keep it lubricated. Pretty simple stuff.

I've owned the gun since 2004. And to put things into perspective for you, I picked up my DDM4 on Monday and have 2500 rounds through it at this point.

20K of 45ACP?? Wow, that is a lot! How long have you owned this gun??

What maintenance have you done on it? Parts replaced?

C4

MaximumPenetration

04-02-12, 10:56

The cops I've seen shooting and handling weapons are miserable at what they do. I've never met a cop that I can't outshoot, hands down, no competition. Basing your decisions on what cops carry (some people are cops for the right reasons, most I've encountered are idiots that can't do anything else for a real job) is like deciding on what car to buy because your kid likes the color. Go with what's been proven through testing and with what you can shoot the best. Please don't ever let cops influence your decisions.

This in no way is an insult to all law enforcement officers, just the officers I've seen shoot and handle weapons.

Wow..this went downhill fast! LOL

Actually, I sort of liked the XD-40 that I borrowed. I got to "borrow" it for a very long time, because my brother is mostly a skeet/shotgun guy and he already has several pistols, so the XD-40 lived with me for almost a year.

The thing DID shoot pretty well. It never malfunctioned...that I can recall.

I just found it odd that for what seemed like a nice pistol, very, very few real "operators" were carrying or using this platform. I also do not see it in many police holsters where I live. Cops around here mostly carry Glocks or SIGs.

Since I am older...I started off with a 2nd gen Glock because when I bought it, there was no XD, M&P or any other polymer pistol except for an expensive and rarely seen HK 9mm. So therefore...I guess I am just used to it.

Glock never changed much over the years...true...but that is one thing I liked about the pistol. They had a system that flat out worked and they did not try to change it (until recently). I like Volvo cars for the same reason - they got an engine and design that was reliable and they stuck with it. Some see decisions like that as stodgy or "not keeping up with the times" but not me.

All of the polymer platforms have a wart here or there. The good thing is we DO have so many choices today.

- brickboy240

C4IGrant

04-02-12, 10:58

I replaced the striker roll pin, striker spring, and recoil spring at about 16k rounds. I clean it every time I shoot it and I keep it lubricated. Pretty simple stuff.

I've owned the gun since 2004. And to put things into perspective for you, I picked up my DDM4 on Monday and have 2500 rounds through it at this point.

Generally speaking, you should change out the recoil spring at about ever 3-5K (especially on a 45ACP). You are just beating the gun up by waiting till 16k.

20,00rds without a malfuction (for any gun) is kind of hard to believe (sorry).

C4

maddawg5777

04-02-12, 11:04

I had an XDM for a bit, after reading people opinions on the grip safety, Ill share my exp with that issue, or rather my wife's. I was in Iraq in 2010, one night my wife heard a bump and grabbed the Springfield. She racked a round and proceeded to clear the house. Luckily it was nothing. when she tried to clear it, she forgot to drop the mag for some reason or another and jammed the gun up. She told me about it over the phone and said she couldn't move the slide to the rear and the round was caught on the feed ramp. My buddy came over and cleared it for her and her issue was she wasn't gripping the grip safety hard enough to let the slide go all the way back.

Now its not like she had never used it before, as she had several hundred rounds down range with it, but when she got a little stressed she made a goof and then with a live round jammed in there it scared her which didn't help her situation.

After that incident I decided that a grip safety is not a good idea for people who don't know the weapon controls 100% or who aren't 100% confident with the weapon. So she has a glock 19 of her own now and i have peace of mind that she can use and clear a firearm regardless of how she grips it.

MaximumPenetration

04-02-12, 11:06

I tend to agree with you. That's why I believe in my XDs. I couldn't get more than a thousand rounds through a glock without malfunctions. My XD keeps going and going. My dad's best fried is a big time gun guy and recommended I change out those parts, otherwise I probably wouldn't have. Don't know what to tell you bud. I have a pistol that does what I tell it too, flawlessly and immediately every single time.

Generally speaking, you should change out the recoil spring at about ever 3-5K (especially on a 45ACP). You are just beating the gun up by waiting till 16k.

20,00rds without a malfuction (for any gun) is kind of hard to believe (sorry).

C4

MaximumPenetration

04-02-12, 11:10

An individual who doesn't know the weapon controls 100% or who aren't 100% confident with the weapon shouldn't be using it outside of supervision. Good choice with getting her something different. Maybe you should have chosen something simple like a S&W 642. A glock still requires inserting, dropping mags. It still requires pulling a slide. Might want to go with something simple.

I had an XDM for a bit, after reading people opinions on the grip safety, Ill share my exp with that issue, or rather my wife's. I was in Iraq in 2010, one night my wife heard a bump and grabbed the Springfield. She racked a round and proceeded to clear the house. Luckily it was nothing. when she tried to clear it, she forgot to drop the mag for some reason or another and jammed the gun up. She told me about it over the phone and said she couldn't move the slide to the rear and the round was caught on the feed ramp. My buddy came over and cleared it for her and her issue was she wasn't gripping the grip safety hard enough to let the slide go all the way back.

Now its not like she had never used it before, as she had several hundred rounds down range with it, but when she got a little stressed she made a goof and then with a live round jammed in there it scared her which didn't help her situation.

After that incident I decided that a grip safety is not a good idea for people who don't know the weapon controls 100% or who aren't 100% confident with the weapon. So she has a glock 19 of her own now and i have peace of mind that she can use and clear a firearm regardless of how she grips it.

maddawg5777

04-02-12, 11:13

I tend to agree with you. That's why I believe in my XDs. I couldn't get more than a thousand rounds through a glock without malfunctions. My XD keeps going and going. My dad's best fried is a big time gun guy and recommended I change out those parts, otherwise I probably wouldn't have. Don't know what to tell you bud. I have a pistol that does what I tell it too, flawlessly and immediately every single time.

My XDM chocked on Blazer ammo almost religiously, all weapons are mechanical and will have an issue eventually. Just a matter of fact. Sometimes you get good ones and sometimes you get a Friday special that doesn't want to work. Either way our samples of one don't make a difference in the big picture of things. I'm glad yours runs well and hope it serves you well.

cdvanns

04-02-12, 11:29

maddawg5777

04-02-12, 11:39

C4IGrant

04-02-12, 11:39

Well if we don't have any data I would suggest what were hearing is alot of opinion and while I can respect an educated opinion so far it's just that. The XD/XDm isn't any more likely to go down than any other weapon and their is no evidence to prove it does.

If we are talking about debris getting into the grip safety an making the gun inoperable, that is true (people have already posted it in this thread).

So the evidence is there (not only in this thread, but in others).

C4

Failure2Stop

04-02-12, 11:40

Well if we don't have any data I would suggest what were hearing is alot of opinion and while I can respect an educated opinion so far it's just that. The XD/XDm isn't any more likely to go down than any other weapon and their is no evidence to prove it does.

What?
It is an aspect of the weapon that most certainly is a provable and known issue.
If that isn't important to you, fine, but to insist that it isn't a problem is the logic equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "LALALALALALALA!"

maddawg5777

04-02-12, 11:42

Well if we don't have any data I would suggest what were hearing is alot of opinion and while I can respect an educated opinion so far it's just that. The XD/XDm isn't any more likely to go down than any other weapon and their is no evidence to prove it does.

As I don't have any video or other evidence I wont throw out any opinion but when they do break parts are much more expensive on the xd series compared to glock. Unless that has changed in the the last year and a half.

cdvanns

04-02-12, 12:00

C4IGrant

04-02-12, 12:04

Still no actual proof that they break down because of the Grip safety more than any other brand for any for any other reason.Bob's gun broke I bet it was that grip safety cause no other guns ever break.Can it break sure, does it break down more than other weapons because of the grip safety.No proof...

I think you are confusing "Break" with "Inoperable." Though I have seen threads in the past where something did break inside of the grip safety. While that is a concern, getting something inside of it that locks it in place is a MUCH larger problem IMHO.

C4

Packman73

04-02-12, 12:06

Littlelebowski

04-02-12, 12:19

MaximuPenetration, in what disciplines do you complete and what are scores/times? Classifieds would be fine. What is your statitistical sampling on XDs? How many do you own?

maddawg5777

04-02-12, 12:20

Im not saying the grip safety will break, I know its just another thing to be mindful of when operating the system. Can something get in there and gum it up.... maybe, weirder stuff has happened. The major weak link in the XD that I have seen is the firing pin retaining pin. Does that mean its a giant POS... no. I know some people who fully believe in Taurus and because their what ever hasn't failed that makes their whole line up great in their eyes. Is this true? No def not. I don't condemn the XD to the level of Taurus, its just known that there are better alternatives out there.

cdvann, no one will come on this site and convince the majority of guys here that the XD is super awesome or the best plastic wonder pistol. You can post and try to push your point but until someone with high validity runs one hard for a long period of time the XD wont get much respect on this board.

To put it in perspective for ya, my wife owns a glock 19. Is it a great gun, sure, but do i like it? No, not really. I still prefer my 92a1 over it and that puts me in the minority on this site.

cdvanns

04-02-12, 12:26

Can it become inoperable...yes.Do other weapons become inoperable...yes.Does the XD/XDm become inoperable more than others...no proof.

streck

04-02-12, 12:32

I have owned an XD and a Glock. I prefer the Glock.

The grip safety on the XD would trip me up every once in a while when bringing the gun down to rack the slide, my grip would shift lightly but enough to let off on the safety preventing the lock from releasing. Even with regular practice this happened.

My other issue is my grip is thumb forward and the slide release is right where I put my thumb on the Glock. Too often I will be touching the release enough to cause the slide to fail to lock to the rear.

I just decided it wasn't for me.

Otherwise, the XD was reliable and accurate. My choice to sell was based on ergonomics.

Now I carry a Sig 228 but if I go back to a striker gun, it will be a G19.

C4IGrant

04-02-12, 12:35

Can it become inoperable...yes.Do other weapons become inoperable...yes.Does the XD/XDm become inoperable more than others...no proof.

If you take a Glock (for instance) and through it in Mud, it will run. As seen in this thread, the XD will not. So your proof is already IN THIS THREAD!

With that said, I don't have to cover myself in blood and go swimming with sharks to know that it is a BAD IDEA. ;)

C4

cdvanns

04-02-12, 12:41

No proof they become inoperable or break more than other brands.I don't think XD's are any better or worse and agree the grip safety could be a problem and I have not said otherwise. I have ageed that all weapons can have issues at any time and the XD's are included.I also think right now a Walther might be a good choice for a 9mm rather than a Glock.As far as a mud test on a Walther...no proof.

Littlelebowski

04-02-12, 12:41

Can it become inoperable...yes.Do other weapons become inoperable...yes.Does the XD/XDm become inoperable more than others...no proof.

No proof at all! Except for that troublesome matter of SMEs on this site like that Vickers fellow seeing them shit the bed in classes and the fact no major department or agency will adopt them. Well, the elite FDA inspectors did.....

Seriously guys, it's an inanimate object. Just because you own one does not make it something you need to go defend with your last dying breath. Folks on here like PPQs, good Glocks, M&Ps, and HKs. This ain't a Glock site! Quit being that guy. You know, the one all emotional about his purchase?

maddawg5777

04-02-12, 12:44

With that said, whats with all the XD posts this last week. Did xd talk get shut down lol?

C4IGrant

04-02-12, 12:49

No proof they become inoperable or break more than other brands.

Well since the XD has an added safety that most polymer guns DO NOT HAVE AND the fact that it is poorly fitted to the gun (read open gaps) this lends itself to a higher level of failing to fire.

To add insult to injury, NO large PD/SO/Agency uses this gun. This is commonly referred to a CLUE.

I also do not know of a single (well known) firearms instructor that recommends this pistol as their first, second or third choice as a defensive tool (another clue).

If you like the gun and it works for you (in your needs), then drive on! Take it through multiple pistol classes and shoot the heck out of it!

C4