Question on marksmanship

[vigilant2]

How much of separating/isolating the trigger finger from the strong hand grip is a function of mental focus versus a grip issue? There are days /or strings within a session when this is effortless, then there are times when I'm struggling or having to make a concerted mental effort to avoid "milking the grip" or some other pre-ignition/ignition action resulting in a less than desirable shot. I've seen a couple of schools of thought, one advocating gripping as strong as possible to prevent "milking" as you are already gripping as strong as possible. The more predominate thinking of a looser strong hand grip with the support hand providing the majority of the grip(clamping the strong hand onto the gun.
Is there a percentage of mental focus vs grip at play here? I sometimes get frustrated with the amount of effort it takes me to break the shot( 3.5lb trigger feels like 10lbs, versus other times when I can keep it on a 3" paster at 17-20yrds and effortlessly break the shot. Trying to move to that next level.
Any thoughts appreciated.

[Failure2Stop]

The firing hand cannot grip as hard as possible and still produce smooth trigger control. It needs to grip as firmly as possible while still allowing the trigger finger to be isolated, but must be firm enough to maintain positive control of the firearm.

Best way to practice:
One-handed bulls-eye.
It can be extremely frustrating (especially the rapid) but it forces you to properly apply the fundamentals.

For those that don't know, rapid is 2 strings of 5 shots, with each string being 10 seconds in length.

[Kokopelli]

How much of separating/isolating the trigger finger from the strong hand grip is a function of mental focus versus a grip issue? There are days /or strings within a session when this is effortless, then there are times when I'm struggling or having to make a concerted mental effort to avoid "milking the grip" or some other pre-ignition/ignition action resulting in a less than desirable shot. I've seen a couple of schools of thought, one advocating gripping as strong as possible to prevent "milking" as you are already gripping as strong as possible. The more predominate thinking of a looser strong hand grip with the support hand providing the majority of the grip(clamping the strong hand onto the gun.
Is there a percentage of mental focus vs grip at play here? I sometimes get frustrated with the amount of effort it takes me to break the shot( 3.5lb trigger feels like 10lbs, versus other times when I can keep it on a 3" paster at 17-20yrds and effortlessly break the shot. Trying to move to that next level.
Any thoughts appreciated.

Apply some Zen to your sessions and get in the zone. It's easier for me to do with 1911 sessions as I'm running seven rounds per magazine and a dozen magazines or so. I find myself shooting five round groups with the AR and need more range time to learn to work the zone. When the trigger acquires a life of it's own and you have to think about it, I'm out of the zone. Ron

[a0cake]

On the carbine or rifle, too much strong hand grip can do funky things with trigger pull.

To illustrate this, hold your arm in front of you, tighten your wrist and hand as if you're bearing down on the pistol grip, and simulate a trigger pull.

Do you notice how your wrist wants to break toward the inside?

Now relax the wrist and hand as if you're barely gripping the pistol grip and do it again. You should notice that it's easier to isolate the trigger finger with less overall movement in the hand and wrist.

It's also important to identify what type of shooting you're doing. If it's high volumes of fire at close range, you're going to apply more strong hand grip.

In the precision arena, you need to isolate that trigger finger as much as possible. A good bipod load or improvised rest, combined with a forward lean will allow you to keep your strong hand grip nice and gentle so you can softly caress the trigger.

[Failure2Stop]

Clarification requested:
Are we talking about rifle or pistol?
I was assuming that it was pistol, as my reply reflected.

[Redhat]

Sometimes we need to ignore the sights and bullet holes in order to just concentrate on how a proper grip/trigger press feels.

[a0cake]

Clarification requested:
Are we talking about rifle or pistol?
I was assuming that it was pistol, as my reply reflected.

Whoops. Yeah you're right I don't know how I managed that one.

[Failure2Stop]

Whoops. Yeah you're right I don't know how I managed that one.

I actually think that you are right, and that he was talking about carbines/rifles. I just came out of a pistol discussion, so my head was there.

[Redhat]

I think he's talking pistol...
The more predominate thinking of a looser strong hand grip with the support hand providing the majority of the grip(clamping the strong hand onto the gun.

[vigilant2]

Actually I was asking in reference to pistol shooting, trying to get a handle on my inconsisitencies in breaking the shot. I do also shoot carbine though and really appreciate the input on that weapon also as I consider myself currently much better(and practiced ) with the pistol.

[vigilant2]

Thanks guys, I'm going to start working on everything mentioned tommorow night. I'm determined.

[Surf]

Use as much grip strength that you can which does not interfere with your trigger finger movement. Also eliminate frame contact with your trigger finger by creating a gap between the trigger finger and frame of the weapon. Too much trigger finger with frame contact of the trigger finger will create issues. I use various trigger manipulation techniques but as a default I use a "hook and curl" type of technique which helps to ensure that I have no frame contact with the trigger finger and promotes ease of movement of the trigger finger even when more gripping force is exerted. This technique usually leads to a faster trigger finger with a more tactile or precise feel and more straight to the rear trigger press. If you are interested I have video's on the topic in the links in my signature.

[vigilant2]

Thanks Surf. I'm quite familiar with your video's. I'd say I've made a quantum leap in my pistol shooting in the last 8 months due to a combination of techniques learned from your video's and jumping at the opportunity last summer to train once aweek for 3 months with USPSA Grandmaster Shannon Smith.
I'm realizing my problem is consistency, as I said in my OP sometimes the isolation of my trigger finger is effortless/second nature, yet even within the same session it can sometime become laborous (fatigue ?) fighting to avoid milking the grip.
I'm beginning to believe in my case its a concentration/focus problem and not a grip issue.
While finishing up my last range session I decided to change things up a bit. I loaded 2 mags full (G19) and a third with 6 rounds. I proceeded to do 2 mag dumps/speed reload as fast as I could (silhoutte 10 yrds) and on the 3rd engaged a 2inch paster in the upper right corner of the target(necessitating a slow down and fundamentals). I was able to punch one large hole(all six rounds) through the center of the paster effortlessly, it felt like my trigger finger was disconnected from the rest of my strong hand.
I guess this disconnect is what I'm trying to acheive 95+% of the time.:)

[OldState]

Best way to practice:
One-handed bulls-eye.
It can be extremely frustrating (especially the rapid) but it forces you to properly apply the fundamentals.



++++++100000000!!

This is the best advise. I learned to shoot pistol competing in NRA Bullseye 2700 (no I'm not old) when I was in my early 20's (12 years ago). I shot tens of thousands of rounds practicing like this.

It made me a very good shot with many other weapons. Shooting fundamentals will be burned into your mind and muscle memory.

[Failure2Stop]

train once aweek for 3 months with USPSA Grandmaster Shannon Smith.

That's a pretty damn viable method.