Knights Armament

[retired2816]

I have been reading as much as I can regarding the various AR's. Is the Knight SR 15 & 16 that much more advanced or better bang for your buck than comparable LMT, Daniel Defense or BCM models??

Thanks!

[hotrodder636]

I have had one for a little while now and I wouldn't say it is that much "different" than the others nor better. What is does offer are some nice features integrated in the factory carbine that you don't have to part together. The SR does use a proprietary gas tube (which is really just the SR-25 tube) and also a proprietary bolt which uses lugs that are slightly rounded rather than square which is supposed to aid in longevity. It comes with factory amidextrous safety selector, magazine release, and bolt release. The trigger guard is already setup for "gloves". The rail has a folding front sight which fold flush with the rail. It also comes with a SOPMOD stock. OVerall it is a pretty nice package and is made by KAC. Overall for the features you are getting and for the price you get them, it is a well priced package and will most likely cost less than either of the others once you put all the "add-ons" onto it.

Though I don't own one (yet) Daniel Defense makes great carbines as evidenced by folks on here as well as LMT and BCM.

Edit: though there are some proprietart parts, they are ALL available in the market.

[JSGlock34]

Welcome to the site. Here is a 25 page thread on the SR-15E3 which seems to speak directly to your question as it is titled

"What makes the Knights Armament SR-15 E3 5.56mm rifle such a good rifle?" (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=58268)

Give it a read - it has great information as well as several post by KAC designers.

I'm a SR-15E3 owner and my rifle has proven accurate and reliable. I've used it at a Vickers Advanced Carbine course with zero problems. It is lightweight and has several unique features, to include the ambidextrous IWS lower and the enhanced E3 bolt. The E3 bolt has a truly impressive lifespan.

That said, it is different in several ways from a standard AR15. The other brands you mention are all high quality - I own a Colt 6920 as well. The 'BCD' rifles are excellent (BCM, Colt and Daniel Defense). The 'KLN' rifles (KAC, LaRue and Noveske) offer some nice features at a premium. At the end of the day though, they all push the same 5.56mm round.

[motoduck]

Better bang for your buck? Not sure I would describe it in those terms. KAC builds great weapons and you pay big $ for well designed and well built platforms. As I am sure your aware their AR platform has many propritary parts that are not interchagable with other ARs. KAC "improved" or redesigned many parts they felt were "weak" links in the Milspec AR. The other brands you listed are all 100% GTG and are basicly Milspec.

[Jaysop]

At a recent I saw two of them go down. They Wernt running properly the whole time.
Sorry that I don't know the specifics as to why though, just food for thought.

[hotrodder636]

At a recent I saw two of them go down. They Wernt running properly the whole time.
Sorry that I don't know the specifics as to why though, just food for thought.

I have seen 3-4 posts since the time I was looking into an SR-15 and since I have currently owned one. I haven't heard evidence as to why any of them failed. I have also heard of LMT, Colt, Noveske and others failing. Not sticking up for anyone, just saying that it can happen. However since I have owned mine, I have had ZERO issues of any sort, though I only have about 1200 rounds through (haven't made it to the range much based on work schedule).

[Jaysop]

I have seen 3-4 posts since the time I was looking into an SR-15 and since I have currently owned one. I haven't heard evidence as to why any of them failed. I have also heard of LMT, Colt, Noveske and others failing. Not sticking up for anyone, just saying that it can happen. However since I have owned mine, I have had ZERO issues of any sort, though I only have about 1200 rounds through (haven't made it to the range much based on work schedule).

Of course it happends to the best of them. Usually there is a general consensus as to a weapon's flaws.
I believe that maybe the tolerances are tighter than other ARs. No two seem to suffer from identical problems.
This is all speculation on my part. I know that many are very happy with thier purchase. I for one would love to have the lower, the upper maybe not due to the cost of the wrench to take the rail off

[retired2816]

Appreciate everyones advice. Will be running down the various models the next two weeks and attending the St. Louis gun show to personally handle the weapons and compare the components before making a decision. This forum has been an excellent resource and has provided information to make a sound purchase. I'm sure I will post other questions in the future regarding other buying concerns along with maintenance, options and technical issues.

Thanks!!

[Army Chief]

At a recent I saw two of them go down. They Wernt running properly the whole time.
Sorry that I don't know the specifics as to why though, just food for thought.

Don't mean to come off as confrontational, but you've conveyed little-to-nothing of any real substance here. You saw two SR-15E3s (or other KAC rifles) go down? What model, generation and/or variant? Where? Under what circumstances? Were these reliability issues or deadlining faults? Again, it isn't my purpose to say that you didn't see what you saw, but what you're describing is sufficiently rare as to deserve some kind of challenge without some rather specific insights. It also tells us nothing about the ammunition used, operating abilities of the shooter(s) and whether or not you were looking at unmodified factory guns.

I do own an SR-15E3, and I would consider it my first-line carbine. I've never experienced any kind of failure with it, and in this, I am actually pretty typical. I have no problem whatsoever accepting that there may be KAC rifles out there that aren't yet properly sorted-out for whatever reason, but brother, you can't just toss a hand grenade into the room and run. That's pretty much what just happened here.

AC

[mtdawg169]

At a recent I saw two of them go down. They Wernt running properly the whole time.
Sorry that I don't know the specifics as to why though, just food for thought.

Sorry man, but I have to echo AC's comments. I've owned three SR15 E3s and they were all fantastic guns. Without knowing more about the circumstances, your observations are useless. If you intend to cast doubt on the SR15, then please present facts. I have yet to see a case where one had an issue that wasn't user induced.

[mrosamilia]

Two here, 1 black And 1 Taupe that is more of my back up gun. I easily have 2k rounds through my primary with never a single bobble. Just my First Hand 2 cents worth....

[Robb Jensen]

My KAC SR25E3 works great for me, I however shoot enough to ACTUALLY see and experience the difference.....YMMV
I've also serviced some Gov't owned (customizing them) and can tell you they run pretty damn good vs. other commercial brands.

[High Tower]

I like the added benefits of the SR15 lower. The ambi mag release and bolt release are built in which makes them that much nicer. They do not have to be used, but are much more convenient in certain shooting positions.

I really like their 2 stage trigger as well.

As far as complete rifles go, I do not own one. If I were to buy a complete rifle this one would be at the top of the list of ones to look at.

[sdacbob]

I have an SR15 as well. I love the URX rail system. The rifle is nice and light and handles very well. Being a lefty I like all the factory ambi controls too. That being said, I also have a LMT Defender 2000 and a BCM 14.5 pinned upper on an old Bushy lower. Both those are very fine too and I especially like the BCM's shorter overall length. All three of them have been ubber reliable.

[Jaysop]

Don't mean to come off as confrontational, but you've conveyed little-to-nothing of any real substance here. You saw two SR-15E3s (or other KAC rifles) go down? What model, generation and/or variant? Where? Under what circumstances? Were these reliability issues or deadlining faults? Again, it isn't my purpose to say that you didn't see what you saw, but what you're describing is sufficiently rare as to deserve some kind of challenge without some rather specific insights. It also tells us nothing about the ammunition used, operating abilities of the shooter(s) and whether or not you were looking at unmodified factory guns.

I do own an SR-15E3, and I would consider it my first-line carbine. I've never experienced any kind of failure with it, and in this, I am actually pretty typical. I have no problem whatsoever accepting that there may be KAC rifles out there that aren't yet properly sorted-out for whatever reason, but brother, you can't just toss a hand grenade into the room and run. That's pretty much what just happened here.

AC

Your right I wasn't really thinking about details when I hastily posted.
From what I know about thier rifles are that one was usingpmags and the other usgi. They apeared well cared for. As for skill level they had both been threw multiple classes. With those rifles idk.
They both complained about the rifles not likeing low powered ammo. They were using m193. I don't know exactly what the issued were but they were both cased by lunch.

I'm sure the design is excellent. And regardless of KAC being a sponsor here I think they're a good buy.
But I have noticed a few threads over the past few months about complatints about the front sight, the cost of the wrench and some cycling issues.

But then again the unhappy few are always louder than the happy masses.

[JSGlock34]

They both complained about the rifles not likeing low powered ammo. They were using m193.

I have one of the earlier model SR-15E3s and I can confirm that it does not like underpowered .223 ammo. Of course, this was one of the more widely reported issues when the SR-15 was first introduced - and a product of the tuned gas system which is one of the reasons the rifle shoots so smoothly.

But mine runs all day long with XM193. Another SR-15E3 I observed at a class displayed no problems when run with 62 grain M855. My experience has been that if you feed the SR-15 properly with true 5.56mm ammo, it'll run.

[FLHXSG]

Are these malfunctions happening on current generation knights rifle?

[mrosamilia]

My back up Taupe gun is an early gun and will run varmint loads if need be. Never a miss.......... That was me knocking on wood, but seriously I try everything.

[Mark82ndABN]

Your right I wasn't really thinking about details when I hastily posted.
From what I know about thier rifles are that one was usingpmags and the other usgi. They apeared well cared for. As for skill level they had both been threw multiple classes. With those rifles idk.
They both complained about the rifles not likeing low powered ammo. They were using m193. I don't know exactly what the issued were but they were both cased by lunch.

I'm sure the design is excellent. And regardless of KAC being a sponsor here I think they're a good buy.
But I have noticed a few threads over the past few months about complatints about the front sight, the cost of the wrench and some cycling issues.

But then again the unhappy few are always louder than the happy masses.

That's the reason I got rid of my SR-15E3. Mine also was one of the earlier runs. From what I understand they are not quite as sensitive anymore. I rarely run anything but good 5.56 but every rifle I own will run all types of ammo or it goes. That's just me though.

[FLHXSG]

Why would anybody would accept a rifle that would only shoot 193 and 855 unless it was a super duper race gun that shoots like a laser.

[jonconsiglio]

I had two and they were both very capable rifles. I was to a fan of the URX II after some time and definitely couldn't stand the front sight, two were broken, but I'm not easy on my rifles.

I wouldn't hesitate to own another, especially with the URX 3.1, but I have a BCM, LMT, Colt and Noveske that are all doing just as good of a job with many thousands of rounds.

[Robb Jensen]

Why would anybody would accept a rifle that would only shoot 193 and 855 unless it was a super duper race gun that shoots like a laser.

The KAC SR15E3 is chambered in 5.56mm NATO, shooting .223 pressure ammo through it is like using non-detergent conventional motor oil in a Corvette ZR1.

[JSGlock34]

Why would anybody would accept a rifle that would only shoot 193 and 855 unless it was a super duper race gun that shoots like a laser.

Funny - I have absolutely no problem accepting a rifle designed around shooting military 5.56mm ammunition. I have much more trouble accepting the compromises some manufacturers make in order to ensure that the cheapest, weakest, bargain ammunition available will cycle in their rifle.

ETA: I understand that KAC has opened up the gas port on their rifles anyway, so this should no longer be an issue with new production rifles.

[P2000]

My SR-15 has eaten approx 2,600 rounds of PMC .223 without even a hiccup. I shoot PMC for practice because I can get it cheap, meaning more practice for me.

[Army Chief]

Why would anybody would accept a rifle that would only shoot 193 and 855 unless it was a super duper race gun that shoots like a laser.

I don't think they would -- or should. What we're overlooking here is that this hasn't really been an endemic problem with the SR-15 for some time, and you rarely hear anything about ammunition sensitivities in the current production rifles. As others have stated, the rifle's gas system was tuned for full-pressure NATO loads by a manufacturer that builds weapons for the government. Sure, I suppose they could have just totally over-gassed it like every hobby-grade AR manufacturer seems to do, but that would have defeated the whole point of the rifle.

Noveske used to be pretty candid about the fact that full-pressure 7.62 NATO loads were required in their N6 rifles, and folks understood and accepted this as a reasonable limitation. I'm not sure where we ever got the impression that a top-shelf SR-15 should be expected to perform at 100% with inferior loads. Even though the current guns are actually pretty tolerant, I do think it is reasonable of KAC to presume that a shooter who is savvy enough to know what he's getting with an SR-15 is smart enough to feed it decent fodder when he's looking to extract top performance from the gun.

AC