Leupold 1x14 Tactical Prismatic Rifle Scope? [Archive]

kelly neal

04-04-12, 11:01

From the Team Leupold perspective, I am a huge fan of the Prismatic - but only with the DCD reticle, not the Turkey Plex. Either James Casanova and myself have probably shot more rounds with the Prismatic more than anybody else so I'm in a good position to judge it.

It is a substantially better daytime sight than the other 1X optics as it has better glass than the other 1Xs. The clean and well-defined 1 MOA dot is a lot easier to use on more technical targets but loses nothing in speed. That better glass really comes into play when shooting in diminishing light. A few months ago, I was doing 100 yard drills with Mike Pannone. He was shooting an Eotech and I was shooting a Prismatic. Shooting at dusk on rapidly greying targets (MGM lollipops), I was able to continue shooting for 10-15 minutes as I could easily see the targets through the Prismatic whereas they were lost in the Eotech. We were both surprised at the dramatic difference.

In 3 gun Tactical Limited Division, the Prismatic has yet to be beat by either Aimpoints or EoTechs in any major match that I am aware of.

I used one in a Kyle Lamb's Nightfighter class and had no issues although I slightly preferred the Eotech for inside 25 yard shots when it was completely dark.

I've also yet to break a Prismatic (not that they are indestructible) or an Aimpoint but I've had 2 Eotechs die on me.

Downsides? The mount needs improvement. Battery life is terrible especially when compared to Aimpoints. The DCD reticle is good but could be improved with a simple BDC, although that is starting to push a 1X sight beyond its purpose. Cowitnessing is possible but diminished through the Prismatic when compared to Aimpoints and Eotechs.

The Prismatic is not the ultimate uber sight of all time but it is an underlooked option. It is on par with its competitors.

armakraut

04-04-12, 22:42

The circle dot reticle from the CQ/T would be an improvement.

xrayoneone

04-05-12, 00:31

This question is for Kelly. What is the eye relief like on it? Leupold says 3" but I've heard that it is considerably longer upto 5" or 6".

Thanks

Nightvisionary

04-05-12, 06:12

I have one but haven't gotten around to mounting it on anything yet.

kelly neal

04-05-12, 23:59

This question is for Kelly. What is the eye relief like on it? Leupold says 3" but I've heard that it is considerably longer upto 5" or 6".

Thanks

Measuring mine, I get a full field of view from 2.25 inches to 5.75 inches.

xrayoneone

04-06-12, 21:53

Measuring mine, I get a full field of view from 2.25 inches to 5.75 inches.

Thanks Kelly good to know. I've been thinking of picking one up because I can get a good deal on it. I've yet to drop the hammer because I haven't seen one in person.

I'll probably grab it and if it doesn't work on my AR I'll toss it on my turkey gun.

Tomac

04-07-12, 07:51

Kelly, how well does the Prismatic work at night when using a taclight w/the Prismatic's illumination turned off (ie:etched reticle only)? Thx!...
ETA: Is the factory mount "adequate" as-is or should it be replaced?
Tomac

kelly neal

04-08-12, 10:30

I think the factory mount is adequate. I've never had an issue but another competitor that I know of has, although loctite remedied it. He experienced some zero shift after flying (about 1-2 MOA). It was speculated that it was the mount so he loctited it up and has not had an issue since. Was it the mount? Probably but can't say for sure.

The etched reticle is usable when powered down and using a flashlight to illuminate the target but it is less than ideal. The 1 MOA dot on the DCD reticle is hard to see unilluminated in the dark but the circles are more visible. This is one area where the Turkey Plex reticle is probably better.

I know I rag on the Turkey Plex a lot but from a 3 gun perspective, I NEED to be able to engage 200, 300 and even 400 yard yard targets and the Turkey Plex dot is simply too big (6 MOA I think) and the lower post blocks out targets. On a patrol rifle, it is a more adequate reticle.

Tomac

04-08-12, 11:27

Tokarev

04-08-12, 16:59

I've got one I've been playing with and will be using it this coming weekend in a carbine course. I like that the scope's got capped finger-adjustable turrets. I like the sight's size and weight and like the fairly forgiving eye relief. I've messed with pulling my head back as far as I can while still being able to see the center aiming dot and am still able to hit a USPSA target at 100 yards.

Mine's the illuminated circle plex reticle. I like that the reticle's etched and clear and doesn't get "blobby" when illuminated. Illumination is useable in daytime, depending on background but I'd like to see maybe one more step added to the illumination setting. This would no doubt make the battery life even worse...

The circle plex reticle seems a little too busy and the center dot might be a little too big. I don't know what its measurements are but it must be about 6moa across. As one of the other posters mentioned above, something like the circle dot used in the CQ/T might be OK in the Prismatic. Personally, I'd like to see something like the CMR2 without the 800 yard holdover marks used in this optic. Leupold could use a holdover mark for something like 300yards but otherwise just go with the horseshoe-type reticle.

Canonshooter

04-09-12, 12:56

The prismatic doesn't get much love, but IMO it's a viable optic.

Having used one, the biggest advantages compared to an EOtech, Aimpoint, etc. are ;

1. The view through it is much brighter and sharper - this is immediately evident the first time you look through one. Having an adjustable eyepiece allows you to get the reticle very sharp.

2. No illumination needed - the reticle is sharp, clear and easy to see in normal daylight conditions (just like the reticle in any quality scope).

The battery life for the reticle illumination is short in comparison, but like any scope with a reticle, the Prismatic doesn't need illumination to function. In fact, I never even used the illumination myself.

I had purchased mine second-hand. Shortly after I started using it, it developed some black specks in the optics and seemed to drain the illumination battery even when not in use. I read that there were others who had this problem with older models. I sent it back to Leupold and they basically rebuilt it to new condition, including a new illumination module and mount, for no charge. They certainly stand behind their products.

I ended up never using it again and selling it to go with a SWFA 1-4. I have since come full circle and am once again looking at EOTech, Aimpoint and possibly the Prismatic for my current lightweight middy build shown below. If I were to use one again, I'd get the LaRue QD mount and go with a folding Troy BUIS.

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/lwcarb-7.jpg

blunderocerous

04-10-12, 00:37

I have a tactical prismatic. I don't have a lot of optics experience with which to make any comparisons but I like it. It's currently mounted on an MP15-22. I actually just replaced the battery today cause apparently I left it turned on after its last trip to the range about a week ago. I just ordered an Aimpoint Pro from G and R to mount on my 6920 so when it shows up I'll have something to compare it to.

Tokarev

04-10-12, 06:13

http://www.thetacticalwire.com/story/257620

Leupold Tactical Optics Congratulates Neal on Superstition Mountain Limited Win
BEAVERTON, Ore. - Leupold® Tactical Optics offers its congratulations to Kelly Neal on his victory in the Tactical Limited Division at the Superstition Mountain Mystery 3-Gun match, the first stop in the 2012 3-Gun Nation shooting series.

As a veteran 3-Gun competitor, Neal depends exclusively on Leupold Tactical Optics for all his competition rifles. In the Tactical Limited Division, competitors are restricted to a single, non-magnified optic on their rifles. At Superstition Mountain, Neal relied on the Leupold Prismatic™ 1x14mm Tactical Sight on his way to victory.

"Leupold Tactical Optics is proud to have an exceptional competitor like Kelly Neal using our products," said Tim O'Connor, law enforcement sales manager in Leupold's Tactical Optics Division. "His experience and feedback allow us to make a better product for law enforcement officers and American warfighters who count on our optics to save their lives."

The Leupold Prismatic offers competitors a number of features that make it the perfect choice for their 3-Gun rifles.

The etched glass Circle Plex™ reticle is always visible, even without battery power.

Eight brightness settings allow competitors to dial in the preferred illumination level.

The true 1x optic allows for a wider field of view than other red dot sights, helping competitors make quick transitions between targets and shoot with both eyes open.

Leupold's DiamondCoat 2™ lens treatment is extremely durable and protects against scratches, while still providing increased light transmission.

The rugged maintube is the thickest ever built by Leupold and provides absolute waterproof integrity and rugged durability.

BDC dials are available through Leupold's Custom Shop.

Supported by a team of dedicated engineers, the Leupold Tactical Optics staff works with American warfighters, law enforcement personnel and competitive shooters to design and build products that meet their needs. Currently, more long-range Leupold Tactical Optics are in service with the U.S. military than any other brand.

Leupold & Stevens, Inc., the preeminent American-owned optics company, employs hundreds of people in its state-of-the-art manufacturing facility near Beaverton, Ore. Family owned and operated, Leupold offers products that are sold worldwide to hunters, competitive shooters, American military warfighters, law enforcement personnel and wildlife observers. The product line includes rifle, handgun and spotting scopes; binoculars; rangefinders; trail cameras; mounting systems; and optical tools and accessories.

jmart

04-10-12, 22:09

Kelly,

I see above you recommend the DCD reticule over the circle plex. Seeing as how that is offered only in the Hunting line of Prismatics, are there any other differences (other than reticule and the gold ring) that distinguishes the Hunting product line from the Tactical product line? Does the Hunting model have a more reflective/shinier tube than the Tactical? Any internal or construction differences between the two?

Tomac

04-11-12, 12:41

Had the chance today to check out the DCD reticle and IMHO it's much better than the Circle-Plex. The circles draw the eye to the center dot and automatically center the target, the smaller/thicker circle stands out in lighting conditions where the center dot doesn't, the 1moa center dot looks much better suited for precision/distance shots (Circle-Plex has a 6moa center dot?) and I find the Circle-Plex crosshairs too busy/distracting (YMMV).
I can literally see why Kelly prefers the DCD to the Circle-Plex.
Tomac

Canonshooter

04-11-12, 14:03

Tomac, thanks for the feedback. I too found the center dot of the Circle-Plex too large so if I roll with another Prismatic, it will be with the CDC reticle.

kelly neal

04-11-12, 22:34

I don't know what dimension the outer rings are in the DCD but I will try to find out. To be honest, I shoot off the dot 99% of the time.

It is my understanding that the "hunting" and "tactical" Prismatics are exactly the same except outer finish.

I've had questions about the Pris as a home defense sight. That's not really my area. I will say this 1) my defensive AR has a Prismatic ( of course I'm on Team Leupold 2) I do quite of bit of shooting with LE tactical teams and I have yet to be presented with a shooting problem that the Prismatic was not perfectly adequate for 3) the Prismatic is a superior 3 gun competition sight than Aimpoints and Eotechs 4) I doubt there is any REAL difference between the Pris, the Aimpoints and the Eotechs in any sort of realistic home defense scenario

kelly neal

04-11-12, 22:40

Canonshooter,

Yes the original batch of Prismatics had an issue with " black specks." I believe this was an epoxy failure which has since been remedied.

And yes Leupold stands by its products.

Canonshooter

04-12-12, 06:19

Canonshooter,

Yes the original batch of Prismatics had an issue with " black specks." I believe this was an epoxy failure which has since been remedied.

And yes Leupold stands by its products.

Kelly, thanks for your input.

Even purchased used (with no receipt or warranty registration), Leupold rebuilt the old model to like-new condition. Can't ask for any more than that!

I've been using an Aimpoint CompC3 (2 MOA dot) for many years - it currently resides on a Kreb's Saiga conversion in a MI mount. When I had the Prismatic, I had the opportunity to do a side-by-side comparison; the Prismatic optically is in a different league all together, being much brighter and clearer. For those who value this (and older shooters like me with less-than-perfect eyesight), the difference is significant.

With the brighter, clearer view and a sharply defined reticle, I found the Prismatic to be superior for precision shooting (as much as a non-magnified optic can be for that task). With my eyesight rendering the Aimpoint dot as something other than perfectly round, I estimated that my POA could vary by about 2 MOA, depending on which part of the "dot" I used. I find the shape/apparent size of the "dot" varies depending on the brightness setting as well, further complicating matters.

As recreational shooters, we are fortunate to have such a selection of excellent optics available. I concur that the Prismatic is often over looked, but once you appreciate its unique advantages, you may find it's the best choice for you.

Tomac

04-14-12, 10:35

Just back from the range w/a new DCD Prismatic. Sight-in was quick & easy (love the finger-adjustable W/E), nothing remarkable except the 1moa center dot makes for tighter groups.
Adjustable focus was excellent, so nice to see a crisp, clear reticle instead of the distortion I get w/Aimpoint & Eotechs (I have astigmatism).
The unilluminated reticle was perfectly visible during all my shooting, never felt the need for illumination.
FOV through the Prismatic is great, the tube ghosts very well so it's difficult to see even if looking for it.
I don't yet know the size of the rings but the bottom of the larger ring is a good aiming point at appx 5yds and the inner ring at appx 15yds.
Initial impressions are very good for my needs. At the moment I intend to leave the illumination module set at its lowest until I do a night shoot to determine how much illumination is needed when using my TLR-1S (btw, while I can see the top of the TLR-1S at the bottom of the Prismatic's sight picture, I don't find it detrimental. If I do I'll move the TLR-1S to a 3 o'clock rail).
Tomac

STG-556 w/Prismatic:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofLeupoldPrismatic001.jpg

Reticle pics taken at 0830, sun behind overcast at my 3 o'clock (std silhouette target at 50yds):
Max illumination
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofPrismaticDCDRed008a.jpg
Black
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofPrismaticDCDBlack002a.jpg

xrayoneone

04-14-12, 11:55

Thanks for the pictures Tomac. Well it's settled, I'm picking one up. It will have to be the DCD and for some reason the only ones I'm able to find are the circle plex.

Tomac

04-14-12, 12:53

Thanks for the pictures Tomac. Well it's settled, I'm picking one up. It will have to be the DCD and for some reason the only ones I'm able to find are the circle plex.

You're welcome. MidwayUSA has them for what seems to be the common price: http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=leupold+prismatic
I bought Dark Earth only because I found a good deal (last they had) but would have been equally happy w/black.
Tomac

Canonshooter

04-14-12, 14:00

Tomac

04-14-12, 14:31

If I recall correctly from when I had mine, the "eye box" was pretty generous - eye relief and side-to-side. How would you rate it compared to a low powered scope?

It's obviously not as good as a RDS, but I recall it being pretty forgiving to eye position...

All I have for comparison is the Burris TAC30 1-4x on my son's rifle and while side-to-side is comparable, the Prismatic has better eye relief.
Tomac
ETA: Enlarged original reticle pics above.
EETA: A rough analysis of circle-to-target ratio in the pics above shows the inside diameter of the smaller ring measuring appx 50moa and the outer ring appx 150moa.

Tokarev

04-20-12, 19:41

I ran my Prismatic in a 2day CQB course this passed weekend. The optic gave me no problems and I had no issues with shooting targets from 50 yards all the way up to a couple feet. Sunday afternoon was spent in a couple shoot houses and the illumination worked fine when working indoors.

On the down side, the factory mount kind of stinks--as mentioned by Mr. Neal above. I noted a couple instances where the big thumb screw had loosened slightly under recoil.

I have since replaced the factory mount with an ADM mount. I haven't shot the rifle with the new mount in place but can only assume the new mount will correct any issues in this regard.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1000900.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/Ruger%20SR-556C/P1000903.jpg

Tomac

04-20-12, 20:42

Nice AAR, thx! Btw, what size flipups are you using?
Tomac

Tokarev

04-20-12, 20:59

Nice AAR, thx! Btw, what size flipups are you using?
Tomac

Those are the factory Leupold flip-ups.

rob_s

04-24-12, 12:34

Question on these...

there appears to be some with a ring around them, and some without? is that the difference between a powered and unpowered? Or something else?

kelly neal

04-24-12, 15:02

No difference. The Gold Ring signifies the "civilian" version, no ring means the "Tactical" version. I prefer the dark earth of the civilian version myself but they are the same sight.

rob_s

04-24-12, 15:19

No difference. The Gold Ring signifies the "civilian" version, no ring means the "Tactical" version. I prefer the dark earth of the civilian version myself but they are the same sight.

No, not that ring, the ring that takes the battery appears to be removable (http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS442US443&biw=1680&bih=965&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=JohFhpGk_jUNnM:&imgrefurl=http://www.riflescopes.webyshops.com/Brands/Leupold-Prismatic-Rifle-Scopes/LEUPOLD-Prismatic-1x14-Rifle-Scope-Illum-DCD-Reticle-66170&docid=XgT5w923h4X89M&imgurl=http://webyshops.com/ns/images/Leupold/LEUPOLD-Prismatic-1x14-Hunting-Rifle-Scope-Illum-Module-66170-Pic3.jpg&w=600&h=509&ei=sQqXT5qvHOLr0gGq2dnLDg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=750&sig=114025351046625074006&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=165&start=0&ndsp=39&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:0,i:99&tx=103&ty=52)?

Canonshooter

04-24-12, 17:31

No, not that ring, the ring that takes the battery appears to be removable (http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS442US443&biw=1680&bih=965&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=JohFhpGk_jUNnM:&imgrefurl=http://www.riflescopes.webyshops.com/Brands/Leupold-Prismatic-Rifle-Scopes/LEUPOLD-Prismatic-1x14-Rifle-Scope-Illum-DCD-Reticle-66170&docid=XgT5w923h4X89M&imgurl=http://webyshops.com/ns/images/Leupold/LEUPOLD-Prismatic-1x14-Hunting-Rifle-Scope-Illum-Module-66170-Pic3.jpg&w=600&h=509&ei=sQqXT5qvHOLr0gGq2dnLDg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=750&sig=114025351046625074006&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=165&start=0&ndsp=39&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:0,i:99&tx=103&ty=52)?

That's the Illumination Module. If you don't need reticle illumination you can leave it off and save a few ounces.

feedramp

04-29-12, 19:29

Tomac

04-29-12, 19:35

Is the mount attachment standard such that a QD mount like LaRue's for Aimpoint T1 would work? I see the ADM one above so I'm guessing yes, but wanted to confirm. Possible to cowitness BUIS with this?

LaRue makes a mount specifically for the Prismatic:
http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-qd-mount-low-leupold-prismatic
Here's what Kelly Neal stated in an earlier post about cowitnessing w/the Prismatic: "Cowitnessing is possible but diminished through the Prismatic when compared to Aimpoints and Eotechs."
Tomac

Tokarev

04-29-12, 20:14

Is the mount attachment standard such that a QD mount like LaRue's for Aimpoint T1 would work? I see the ADM one above so I'm guessing yes, but wanted to confirm. Possible to cowitness BUIS with this?

ETA: shame about the short battery life and expensive battery type it uses.

Illumination is only needed in dim or dark light since the reticle is etched and visible in daylight.

The mount is attached to the optic by two Phillips screws. From what I have found, only ADM and Larue make QD mounts for the Prismatic.

feedramp

04-29-12, 20:26

Thank you, gents.

Recommended source for the CR1/3N batteries?

Looks like $5 a pop on Amazon. That sound about right?

rob_s

04-29-12, 20:54

Here's what Kelly Neal stated in an earlier post about cowitnessing w/the Prismatic: "Cowitnessing is possible but diminished through the Prismatic when compared to Aimpoints and Eotechs."
Tomac

I wonder why that is?

Tokarev

04-29-12, 21:35

I wonder why that is?

Iron sights can be seen through the Prismatic but it has some distortion through the lenses. I think a better method, if both an optic and irons are to be used, is to have a QD mount so the scope can be dumped in case of emergency.

Tokarev

04-29-12, 21:36

Thank you, gents.

Recommended source for the CR1/3N batteries?

Looks like $5 a pop on Amazon. That sound about right?

That's probably about right. The last one I bought was in an emergency (for an Aimpoint) and it was $9.00 at Radio Shack.:mad:

feedramp

04-29-12, 23:28

Though the Aimpoint T1 uses the CR2032 which are way cheaper and it gets ridiculously long battery life by comparison.

Tomac

04-30-12, 06:17

Thank you, gents.
Recommended source for the CR1/3N batteries?
Looks like $5 a pop on Amazon. That sound about right?

Buy them in bulk off Ebay or sites like BatteryJunction.com .
Tomac

Canonshooter

04-30-12, 08:16

Though the Aimpoint T1 uses the CR2032 which are way cheaper and it gets ridiculously long battery life by comparison.

This is where so many have a complete disconnect comparing a RDS (like the Aimpoint) to the Prismatic.

Think of it this way; if the battery dies on your Aimpoint, you are 100% out of business. You may as well throw the RDS in the trash can if it dies.

The Prismatic does not need a battery - it has a reticle! The only time you would use reticle illumination is in low light conditions where the black reticle cannot be seen easily. I have yet to encounter any daylight conditions where reticle illumination offered any benefit at all, with either the Prismatic or a 1-4X scope.

Of course, if you're using an Aimpoint, it has to be turned on regardless of available light, so battery life is a consideration!

Comparing battery life of Prismatic (or a 1-4X scope) reticle illumination to Aimpoint battery life is like comparing how many miles you can go on a tank of gas in a speedboat to how far you can go in a sail boat.

So unless you do a lot of low-light shooting, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Canonshooter

04-30-12, 08:28

Iron sights can be seen through the Prismatic but it has some distortion through the lenses. I think a better method, if both an optic and irons are to be used, is to have a QD mount so the scope can be dumped in case of emergency.

Yes. Unlike an Aimpoint, the Prismatic cannnot be used in tandem with irons.

With an Aimpoint, being able to cowitness with irons is a benefit so (1) if the dot goes away/cannot be seen, you can instantly access the irons to take aim and (2) use the rear aperture to "sharpen" the dot for better precision. Neither of those are of any concern using a Prismatic due to its etched reticle and superior optical clarity.

Like using a scope, having the Prismatic attached via a good QD mount is IMO manadatory so if the optic is damaged, it can be quickly removed to access the irons. Also, due to the eye relief constraints of the Prismatic, a folding rear sight is needed for proper positioning of the Prismatic.

feedramp

04-30-12, 09:22

This is where so many have a complete disconnect comparing a RDS (like the Aimpoint) to the Prismatic.

Think of it this way; if the battery dies on your Aimpoint, you are 100% out of business. You may as well throw the RDS in the trash can if it dies.

The Prismatic does not need a battery - it has a reticle! The only time you would use reticle illumination is in low light conditions where the black reticle cannot be seen easily. I have yet to encounter any daylight conditions where reticle illumination offered any benefit at all, with either the Prismatic or a 1-4X scope.

Of course, if you're using an Aimpoint, it has to be turned on regardless of available light, so battery life is a consideration!

Comparing battery life of Prismatic (or a 1-4X scope) reticle illumination to Aimpoint battery life is like comparing how many miles you can go on a tank of gas in a speedboat to how far you can go in a sail boat.

So unless you do a lot of low-light shooting, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Don't see why Leupold couldn't have made a more efficient illumination system that doesn't suck battery orders-of-magnitude more quickly than the Aimpoint, though. Cost, I guess. That higher-quality glass and lower price point have to be made up somewhere. Perhaps the battery choice and circuitry are where they went a bit cheap, and that shows in the expensive but short-lived battery.

ETA: It also seems like the perfect aspect to improve upon in an update or redesign.

Canonshooter

04-30-12, 09:33

Don't see why Leupold couldn't have made a more efficient illumination system that doesn't suck battery orders-of-magnitude more quickly than the Aimpoint, though. Cost, I guess. That higher-quality glass and lower price point have to be made up somewhere. Perhaps the battery choice and circuitry are where they went a bit cheap, and that shows in the expensive but short-lived battery.

It's too bad Aimpoint didn't spend a few more bucks to provide a reticle so when the battery dies, you can still use it.

It really is a silly comparison, isn't it?

rob_s

04-30-12, 09:48

It's too bad Aimpoint didn't spend a few more bucks to provide a reticle so when the battery dies, you can still use it.

It really is a silly comparison, isn't it?

No, it's not.

Canonshooter

04-30-12, 10:09

No, it's not.

Explain.

feedramp

04-30-12, 11:29

Both systems use a battery for illumination purposes. One does so orders-of-magnitude mode efficiently and with a more affordable battery. There's nothing unfair about that observation.

Both systems could certainly make use of the better battery and more efficient circuitry.

Oddly enough, it is the larger piece of gear that bears the less efficient and more costly illumination system, meaning it could certainly fit/mount the better system were Leupold inclined to expend the cost to integrate it.

Red dot sights by design don't normally have etched reticles on them, so that would be a silly thing to demand, but any device with battery-powered illumination (which both of them are) has an inherent obligation to provide the most effective and efficient illumination it can at its price point. Arguably, the Prismatic falls short on that.

Canonshooter

04-30-12, 13:30

Both systems use a battery for illumination purposes.

This is where you're coming off the rails.

Take the batteries out of both and what do you end up with?

With the Prismatic, a fully 100% functional sight - that can still even be used for low light CQC purposes with a white light.

With the Aimpoint, you end up with a useless hood ornament.

The far better comparison of reticle illumination battery life would be to compare the Prismatic to a scope with reticle illumination. In that case, the Prismatic is comparable.

FWIW, I have owned the Prismatic and two 1-4X scopes with reticle illumination and never used it in any of them. For the occassional night carbine match or home defense in a dark house, a few hundred hours of battery life is more than enough. Even then, illuminating the reticle is an option, not mandatory in order to use the sight.

For a sight that is 100% useless without a battery, it damned well better last a long time.

feedramp

04-30-12, 16:42

I get where you're coming from. I guess my confusion is why can't illuminated 1x scopes utilize the apparently more efficient and more cost effective illumination system the Aimpoint T1 uses? Do illuminated 1x scopes require a lot more power for some reason over an RDS?

Jim D

04-30-12, 17:33

Yes. Unlike an Aimpoint, the Prismatic cannnot be used in tandem with irons.

With an Aimpoint, being able to cowitness with irons is a benefit so (1) if the dot goes away/cannot be seen, you can instantly access the irons to take aim and (2) use the rear aperture to "sharpen" the dot for better precision. Neither of those are of any concern using a Prismatic due to its etched reticle and superior optical clarity.

Like using a scope, having the Prismatic attached via a good QD mount is IMO manadatory so if the optic is damaged, it can be quickly removed to access the irons. Also, due to the eye relief constraints of the Prismatic, a folding rear sight is needed for proper positioning of the Prismatic.

So the same 1x device can't be used with irons because it distorts them, but it has "superior optical quality"? :confused:

The Prismatic is a turd that's never caught on for good reason.

As for illumination doing nothing during daylight... there are thousands of shooters who would disagree with the value of "daylight illumination", to the point that Leupold has lost contracts because of it.

Etched reticles provide their own set of hindrances that RDS's don't have, too. There is a reason why very few companies try to do it on 1x optics.

Canonshooter

04-30-12, 18:31

So the same 1x device can't be used with irons because it distorts them, but it has "superior optical quality"? :confused

Like so many who are quick to dismiss it, it's obvious you never used one.

The Prismatic is a turd that's never caught on for good reason.

Your ignorance is really showing now. Maybe you should have that conversation with Kelly Neal, a 3-gun champion who uses one.

PS - ask Failure2Stop as well about the Prismatic in 3-gun.

Jim D

04-30-12, 19:43

Like so many who are quick to dismiss it, it's obvious you never used one.

Your ignorance is really showing now. Maybe you should have that conversation with Kelly Neal, a 3-gun champion who uses one.

PS - ask Failure2Stop as well about the Prismatic in 3-gun.

Rob Leatham can crush most people here shooting an XD, does that make it a better gun?

I don't particularly care what Mr. Neal is using, to be honest.

I went through this same spiel with our leupold rep the other week. I, and the market, don't care. Virtually no one uses them, for good reason.

It's clear that you have a dog in the fight though here. By all means, keep arguing with everyone you disagree with, though.

Tomac

04-30-12, 21:11

Look, guys. All RDS'/optics have their strengths and weaknesses. No one optic is perfect for all needs, otherwise we'd all be using it and arguing about important things like mount height.
I've used numerous Aimpoints, Eotechs, Trijicons, etc over the years and there are things I like & dislike about all of them.
The Prismatic is no different. It offers certain advantages (etched reticle, adjustable focus, ruggedness) and disadvantages (parallax, eye relief, short battery life).
For some, its advantages (like the adjustable focus for those of us w/astigmatism) outweigh its disadvantages when compared to other optics.
The Prismatic is neither an Aimpoint-killer or a POS. It's just another option whose feature set may or may not suit your particular needs.
JMHO...
Tomac

James7800

04-30-12, 22:52

feedramp

05-01-12, 00:21

Thanks James, that helps explain it.

Canonshooter

05-02-12, 08:12

Tomac and James7800, great replies.

Sometimes it's difficult to filter out the background noise and bravado on errornet forums, but your replies are objective and helpful to those who are following this thread.

kelly neal

05-02-12, 11:43

A Prismatic and an Aimpoint are completely different animals.

An Aimpoint, or any other reflex sight, is designed to provide infinite eye relief and be nearly paralax free. It does this by using light from an LED to reflect off the front lens. LED's have become highly efficient and this allows for a very long battery life. There are also some downsides to this system. You can't have an etched reticle because if you etched the lens it would just stay in the same place and no longer be paralax free. Also the front lens isn't perfectly clear because it has to be made to reflect light back from the LED while still letting light through from the front.

The Prismatic on the other hand is more like a tradition rifle scope but with no magnification. Instead of seeing straight through some lenses like on a reflex sight, the light is bent in a prism inside the scope. This means the scope will have paralax and limited eye relief. To illuminate the reticle requires more light than just a tiny LED resulting in a much shorter battery life. The advantages that the system brings is a much clearer picture and a sharper reticle that doesn't require illumination to be used.

Both systems have very little in common and as a result perform very differently. Both work very well for what they were designed to do, but it's really comparing apples to oranges.

Yaah, we have a winner. From my understanding from Leupold, the power it takes to illuminate an etched reticle is far beyond what it takes to project a holographic image or LED. So with current technology, the Prismatic will always have substantially shorter battery life. Putting a Prismatic on a rifle used in lowlight/dark conditions WILL cost you more in batteries.

A shooter CAN co-witness through a Prismatic although there is some distortion. A quick removal scope base is probably a better route.

I'm not saying everyone should run out and sell their Aimpoints or Eotechs or that the Prismatic is the ultimate expression of the 1X sight. It is not but neither are the Aimpoint or Eotech. Each has benefits and drawbacks - although I remain convinced that the Prismatic is a much superior competition rifle sight.

The idea that the Prismatic is an ineffective sight is silly. Jim D, you don't have to care what I may or may not be using but you ignore what is happening in the competitive realm at your own peril. It is where both the Aimpoint and Eotech got their start. We would not even being having this discussion if Jerry Barnhart, Doug Koenig, etc. had not been putting RDS on their pistols in the late 80s, early 90s or had Bennie Cooley not introduced the Eotech during his rifle classes. It is important to know your history.

Singlestack Wonder

05-02-12, 15:29

Jim D

05-02-12, 15:44

The idea that the Prismatic is an ineffective sight is silly. Jim D, you don't have to care what I may or may not be using but you ignore what is happening in the competitive realm at your own peril. It is where both the Aimpoint and Eotech got their start. We would not even being having this discussion if Jerry Barnhart, Doug Koenig, etc. had not been putting RDS on their pistols in the late 80s, early 90s or had Bennie Cooley not introduced the Eotech during his rifle classes. It is important to know your history.

Kelly, I'm well aware of where they got their start, but are you suggesting that the Prismatic is now "sweeping" the 3-gun circuits and shooters are switching over in droves to them? That certainly doesn't mirror what I'm seeing having worked for two different Leupold/ Aimpoint/ Eotech dealers, but hey, maybe they're getting them elsewhere while we sell zero of them (we sold over 100 Aimpoints last month though, by comparison).

That you may be a talented 3-gun shooter who prefers that prismatic doesn't make it any better or worse than it is.

If I wanted an etched reticle optic, I'd buy a Tri-Power that I really don't need to worry about battery life on. But we both know how well that's selling for Trijicon.

Even having an astigmatism, myself... I still have zero interest in buying the Leupold. My rifle usage is not yours though, and if it works well for the games, then great. For me, a slightly sharper reticle isn't worth the nose-dive in battery life for night-time use (my rifle is my preferred HD gun, too), isn't worth the trade off with eye relief and position (shooting from unconventional shooting positions) and the complications that come with running BUIS's (which I run up, all the time).

Were this a competition thread, or a competition forum... you might get some more love on it. If that's the OP's use, then great. As a whole though, most folks here are not hard core competitors, and setup their guns with other priorities in mind.

Canonshooter

05-02-12, 17:10

Bottom line, the prismatic is OK for ipsc competition and gun games, but not for real world applications, period. No need to re-hash all of the reasons why.

If someone want to use it for real world use, good luck...........

Evidently, the Russian military does not agree. They have a sight called the PK-AS (http://russianoptics.net/PK-AS.html), which is a (gasp) 1X prismatic sight with an illuminated dot reticle for low-light use.

Not sure why the (vastly superior*) Leupold version wouldn't be good for "real world applications."

*I've owned both so I speak from first-hand experience.

Jim D

05-02-12, 17:46

Evidently, the Russian military does not agree. They have a sight called the PK-AS (http://russianoptics.net/PK-AS.html), which is a (gasp) 1X prismatic sight with an illuminated dot reticle for low-light use.

Not sure why the (vastly superior*) Leupold version wouldn't be good for "real world applications."

*I've owned both so I speak from first-hand experience.

The Ruskie's are not who most of us take a our tactical advice from... FYI.

Having to turn on your optic when you need it is a clear disadvantage for a patrol or HD gun. Being that (statistically speaking) the majority of shootings occur is poor light... using a non illuminated reticle could really be an issue.

The majority of 3-gun matches occur during the day on an outdoor range. The same can not be said of domestic acts of violence where firearms are used.

Singlestack Wonder

05-02-12, 18:17

Evidently, the Russian military does not agree. They have a sight called the PK-AS (http://russianoptics.net/PK-AS.html), which is a (gasp) 1X prismatic sight with an illuminated dot reticle for low-light use.

Not sure why the (vastly superior*) Leupold version wouldn't be good for "real world applications."

*I've owned both so I speak from first-hand experience.

Thanks for proving the point I made earlier. The russian military is hardly a leading edge example of what works in the real world. I too have used a prismatic when looking for an alternative to Aimpoint due to astigmatism. After owning one for a short while, all of the disadvantages far outweighed the focus feature on the unit so I dumped the prismatic and stuck with Aimpoints and got different glasses.

If the prismatic works for you, great. Just keep a backpack full of batteries and don't bang the prismatic into anything (so as not to knock the light module loose) and you should be good to go should a SHTF situation arise.

I would like to see Leupold duplicate the DDM4 torture test with the prismatic to see how it would fair vs. the Aimpoint T1. I don't think it would make it thru the first few tests.

Canonshooter

05-02-12, 18:32

The Ruskie's are not who most of us take a our tactical advice from... FYI.

That may be so, but it certainly refutes the claim "the prismatic is OK for ipsc competition and gun games, but not for real world applications, period."

Having to turn on your optic when you need it is a clear disadvantage for a patrol or HD gun. Being that (statistically speaking) the majority of shootings occur is poor light... using a non illuminated reticle could really be an issue.

I agree, but obviously this needs to happen with just about anything other than an Aimpoint.

The majority of 3-gun matches occur during the day on an outdoor range. The same can not be said of domestic acts of violence where firearms are used.

True, but I am far more likely to have to solve any self-defense problem with my EDC 9mm Walther PPS than with my AR.

I appreciate your latest responses. I'm not a fanboy of any particular sight, but I think an honest discussion without the hyperbole and unsubstantiated absolute statements is beneficial for all involved.

Canonshooter

05-02-12, 18:40

I would like to see Leupold duplicate the DDM4 torture test with the prismatic to see how it would fair vs. the Aimpoint T1. I don't think it would make it thru the first few tests.

I agree, that would be a very tough act to follow, but we won't know until someone tries. There was a recent thread about a torture test of an EOTech (inspired by the same DDM4 test) that most predicted it would fail miserably, but it did not. In fact, everyone was suprised how much abuse the EOTech took and kept on running.

So, I'll consider myself in a very small minority that doesn't think the prismatic is as bad as some say. Color me stupid, I guess....

Canonshooter

05-02-12, 18:59

The russian military is hardly a leading edge example of what works in the real world.

I like their rifles, though (with some non Commy-block improvements).... ;)

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/aceconversion-11.jpg

Tomac

05-04-12, 08:13

Bottom line, the prismatic is OK for ipsc competition and gun games, but not for real world applications, period. No need to re-hash all of the reasons why.
If someone want to use it for real world use, good luck...........

So, the Prismatic isn't suited for "real world use" but other prismatic optics (like 1-4x variables, 1.5x ACOGs, etc) are?...
Tomac

Jim D

05-04-12, 08:43

So, the Prismatic isn't suited for "real world use" but other prismatic optics (like 1-4x variables, 1.5x ACOGs, etc) are?...
Tomac

The ACOG's have been proven in combat, the Prismatic has not.
The ACOG's do not have battery life concerns, the Prismatic does.
ACOG's are intended to be magnified optics, so use with BUIS's is a different story. A "1x only" optic, why deal with the hassle of BUIS issues when you have no magnification benefit?

rob_s

05-04-12, 08:49

The Prismatic on the other hand is more like a tradition rifle scope but with no magnification. Instead of seeing straight through some lenses like on a reflex sight, the light is bent in a prism inside the scope. This means the scope will have paralax and limited eye relief. To illuminate the reticle requires more light than just a tiny LED resulting in a much shorter battery life. The advantages that the system brings is a much clearer picture and a sharper reticle that doesn't require illumination to be used.

I understand that 3-gun has largely gone the way of ip-sic in general where all we do is stand on our hind legs and shoot fast, but I fail to see how the above description makes this an ideal optic for anyone other than those employed-by, or sponsored-by, Leupold?

ChocLab

05-04-12, 09:24

I have been following this thread with curiosity.

I am wondering the difference between a SWFA 1x4 on 1x or say a S&B on the same vs the prismatic?

Does any scope suffer from the same disadvantages at awkward positions?

For the record I only own Aimpoint/eotechs. After Mac's TAP class I noticed that I may have an astigmatism since I was centering the almost perceived four dots on my 2 Moa Aimpoint. The accuracy emphasis of the class really changed the direction of my training.

Canonshooter

05-04-12, 11:10

I am wondering the difference between a SWFA 1x4 on 1x or say a S&B on the same vs the prismatic?

At least compared to the SWFA 1-4 which I owned, none - other than a lot more bulk, double the weight and double the price for the 1-4 with mount.

Does any scope suffer from the same disadvantages at awkward positions??

Compared to a reflex sight like an Aimpoint, EOTech, etc. - yes to somewhat varying degrees.

For the record I only own Aimpoint/eotechs. After Mac's TAP class I noticed that I may have an astigmatism since I was centering the almost perceived four dots on my 2 Moa Aimpoint. The accuracy emphasis of the class really changed the direction of my training.

If you listen to some here, accuracy doesn't matter - as long as the battery lasts a long time and you can still see the dot while eating a Big Mac.

FWIW, I could shoot the Prismatic with greater accuracy than either the EOTech or Aimpoint for that same reason, but that doesn't matter in "real world" applications. :rolleyes:

kelly neal

05-04-12, 11:11

Kelly, I'm well aware of where they got their start, but are you suggesting that the Prismatic is now "sweeping" the 3-gun circuits and shooters are switching over in droves to them? That certainly doesn't mirror what I'm seeing having worked for two different Leupold/ Aimpoint/ Eotech dealers, but hey, maybe they're getting them elsewhere while we sell zero of them (we sold over 100 Aimpoints last month though, by comparison).

That you may be a talented 3-gun shooter who prefers that prismatic doesn't make it any better or worse than it is.

If I wanted an etched reticle optic, I'd buy a Tri-Power that I really don't need to worry about battery life on. But we both know how well that's selling for Trijicon.

Even having an astigmatism, myself... I still have zero interest in buying the Leupold. My rifle usage is not yours though, and if it works well for the games, then great. For me, a slightly sharper reticle isn't worth the nose-dive in battery life for night-time use (my rifle is my preferred HD gun, too), isn't worth the trade off with eye relief and position (shooting from unconventional shooting positions) and the complications that come with running BUIS's (which I run up, all the time).

Were this a competition thread, or a competition forum... you might get some more love on it. If that's the OP's use, then great. As a whole though, most folks here are not hard core competitors, and setup their guns with other priorities in mind.

I have not suggested that 3 gun shooters are going to the Prismatic in droves. Most shooters compete in the Tac Scope division where variables rule the roost. In the competitive realm, I have suggested the following: the Prismatic is (so far) the dominant 1X sight in competition at the national level in the Tac Limited division (and not just with me shooting it). Tac Limited only allows iron sights or 1X optics. This is largely because the quality of glass, sight adjustments and sight picture compared to Aimpoints and Eotechs. Of course, the shots fired in 3 gun and practical rifle matches are 99% fired in the daylight.

Once again, I have not suggested that everyone run out and sell your Aimpoints or Eotechs, just that the Prismatic is an underrated option. The idea that your shooting performance is going to radically improve because you have any one of these sights is silly. I can say that in my experience, the Prismatic and Aimpoint are more durable than the Eotech.

If having BUIS flipped up is of paramount importance, the Prismatic is probably not the sight for you. If engaging more technical targets is of importance, then the Prismatic probably is the sight for you.

I have also noted that I felt at no disadvantage in any sort of night time shooting or training that I have attended. For example, I shot 3 sights during a VTAC Nightfighter class: the CQBSS, an Eotech and the Prismatic. Inside of 50 yards in the dark, I thought the Eotech was slightly better than the CQBSS and the Prismatic. Past 50 in the dark, the CQBSS was superior. In the daytime and at dusk, the Prismatic had a slight edge.

As for the proven in battle comments. True, the Prismatic has not seen nearly the duty use that other 1X optics have. Tucson PD is the only agency that leaps to mind that issues the Prismatic. Of course these very same comments were levelled at the Aimpoint and Eotech. They were silly gamer sights not proven in battle until they were. The Prismatic was never even designed as a gamer sight, it was first conceived as a turkey shotgun sight (guns which brutalize their optics). I too would like to see a Prismatic (and Eotech) go through the Daniel Defense torture test. I would also like to see a Eotech and Aimpoint on Leupold's torture machine. You would be surprised at what that thing can do to poor optics of any price range.

Finally, with the advancements in variable scopes, I see the 1X optic as an evolutionary dead end.

Canonshooter

05-04-12, 11:37

Finally, with the advancements in variable scopes, I see the 1X optic as an evolutionary dead end.

Once the combined weight of scope and mount gets down to under 1 pound, the variable will no doubt be the way to roll (as long, of course, as the reticle illumination lasts 5+ years on one battery, it has unlimited eye relief and the ability to run fixed BUIS to co-witness with your etched reticle ;) ).

Failure2Stop

05-04-12, 11:50

Finally, with the advancements in variable scopes, I see the 1X optic as an evolutionary dead end.

I am a unabashed fan of low powered variables.
I also primarily use them at 1x, and due to years of eye damage, I find that I shoot them just as fast as I do an EoTech or Aimpoint, but with greater precision. This is one of the big factors in my interest in trying out a Prismatic.

Etched reticle optics can be very usable in low light in conjunction with white light. I have found that reticle boldness plays a big role in that application. I am not convinced that it is a superior choice to a good RDS for low-light, but how vast the divide is between a T1 and a Prismatic is what I would like to find out.

Being usable without illumination or battery dependance has appeal to me.

Warg

05-04-12, 15:23

I am a unabashed fan of low powered variables.
I also primarily use them at 1x, and due to years of eye damage, I find that I shoot them just as fast as I do an EoTech or Aimpoint, but with greater precision. This is one of the big factors in my interest in trying out a Prismatic.

Etched reticle optics can be very usable in low light in conjunction with white light. I have found that reticle boldness plays a big role in that application. I am not convinced that it is a superior choice to a good RDS for low-light, but how vast the divide is between a T1 and a Prismatic is what I would like to find out.

Being usable without illumination or battery dependance has appeal to me.

Exactly.

I typically boresight all of my scoped rifles at night using a barrel mounted laser that is reflecting off of a street sight approximately 200y away. I always surprised at how much I can see at night and how visible most of the etched reticles are (fine crosshairs…not so much). I do live in an urban environment, however, with a fair amount of ambient light.

I would like to see low-light, non-illuminated pics through this reticle using a rail mounted weapon light.

Alaskapopo

05-04-12, 18:39

Singlestack Wonder

05-04-12, 20:20

While I am not a huge Prismatic fan I think your generalization is a bit sweeping and not factual.
Pat

Let's see:

a) Extremely poor battery life
b) Detachable illumination module that could come loose under hard use and at night make the sight totally unusable.
c) External focus ring that can be struck and moved rendering the reticle view difficult to use in a SHTF situation.

For ipsc matches that last a few hours or a couple of days, OK. Not OK for months in the harsh enviroments and SHTF situations that Aimpoints excel at.

If I need long distance engagments, then S&B, Swaro, or NF. For infighting with the above units, an offset Aimpoint.

YMMV

ChocLab

05-04-12, 20:31

.......

Singlestack Wonder

05-04-12, 20:42

I vote that Leupold sends one to Rob_S for evaluation.

Besides the standard optical evaluation, extreme conditions testing should also be included.

Tomac

05-04-12, 22:14

Let's see:

a) Extremely poor battery life
** No prismatic optic has a battery life even approaching an Aimpoint (for that matter, no other RDS can make that claim, either).
b) Detachable illumination module that could come loose under hard use and at night make the sight totally unusable.
** "Could" come loose. Can you provide any real-life instances where this has happened (for that matter, can you provide any real-life instances of a Prismatic failure of any kind)? Plus, even without the illumination module, the Prismatic is still usable if you can still see your target by ambient light or weaponlight (an illuminated reticle does you no good if you can't see/ID your target).
c) External focus ring that can be struck and moved rendering the reticle view difficult to use in a SHTF situation.
** Strike *any* optic hard enough and it will fail. Is the Prismatic as rugged as the T-1 Micro? I doubt it. Is the Prismatic rugged enough? No hard evidence yet to the contrary. The Aimpoint M2/M3/Pro all have an external switch that's susceptible to impact breakage plus potential impact-caused optic rotation in the mount (both fixed in the M4 series) but I don't hear anyone saying don't use them because of that.

For ipsc matches that last a few hours or a couple of days, OK. Not OK for months in the harsh enviroments and SHTF situations that Aimpoints excel at.

If I need long distance engagments, then S&B, Swaro, or NF. For infighting with the above units, an offset Aimpoint.

YMMV

Tomac

Failure2Stop

05-04-12, 22:41

Why doesn't Leupold give a Prismatic to F2S to test and evaluate?

In the works [winks face]

Tomac

05-05-12, 07:16

In the works [winks face]

Looking forward to the results, whatever they may be.
Tomac

Canonshooter

05-05-12, 07:18

In the works [winks face]

It will be great to have an objective review from you - we look forward to seeing it.

Perhaps Leupold would be receptive to some "destuctive testing" as well?

ChocLab

05-05-12, 08:40

......

Singlestack Wonder

05-06-12, 08:50

b) Detachable illumination module that could come loose under hard use and at night make the sight totally unusable.
** "Could" come loose. Can you provide any real-life instances where this has happened (for that matter, can you provide any real-life instances of a Prismatic failure of any kind)? Tomac

I would like to but unfortunately, there is no quantifiable data for this product as it has not been accepted by any sizeable group of users whether civilian, law, or military. Of course, that may be a "clue". I got rid of mine for several reasons (tunneling at different angles of view, poor battery life (and while the black reticle is visible, it is still all but invisible when looking into dark backgounds even in daylight)).

jmart

05-06-12, 09:24

This has been an interesting thread. One of these days I might pull thr trigger on a Prismatic, I've had me eye on them for quite awhile.

I certainly agree, these wouldn't be my first choice for a job that required constant patrolling after dark, the battery life isse would be a deal breaker. But for a civilian who uses his AR at the range and for defense where illumination requirements (if applicable) after dark would range in minutes to tens-of-minutes, this isn't a huge issue. Especially when the intensity level required when it's dark is very low, and the units get a couple of hundred hours at that level.

What this thread really is a debate about IMHO is whether or not illumination is a requirement on a battle optic. Is it necessary for the reticule to always be illuminated so that it "pops" and stands out to the user?

In the cases where a reticule is simply a dot, then probably so. In cases where you have a reticule consisting of a plex or multiple concentric circles, maybe not so much. But I can see for the illuminated reticule crowd, how if you buy into that, then logically you'd insist on long duration and reliable illumination, and that's why Aimpoints would be a no-brainer selection over a Prismatic. But if you fall into the "I only need illumination in selected scenarios" crowd, then the Prismatic becomes an attractive alternative, and the glass quality factor and reticule sharpness advantages may sway you.

As others have said, it's just another option. Evaluate your requirements, score the features/benefits of each option, and select accordingly.

Tokarev

05-06-12, 09:31

One potential benefit to the removable illumination module is that it can be detached without taking the optic off the rifle. If the module craps out, it could be replaced without returning the entire optic to the factory.

Kyle Lamb running the Prismatic on his 396 drill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH5grmELZw4&feature=plcp

Canonshooter

05-06-12, 11:06

One potential benefit to the removable illumination module is that it can be detached without taking the optic off the rifle.

You can use the Prismatic without it entirely, and the optic remains fully sealed/waterproof.

Kyle Lamb running the Prismatic on his 396 drill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH5grmELZw4&feature=plcp

Obviously Kyle isn't a "serious user" either. :sarcastic:

ChocLab

05-06-12, 11:07

I got rid of mine for several reasons (tunneling at different angles of view, poor battery life (and while the black reticle is visible, it is still all but invisible when looking into dark backgounds even in daylight)).

For someone who only owns RDS like me, wouldn't these same things apply to all 1x4 scopes? Except maybe the TR24s because of the method of illumination of the reticle.

I am having a hard time weighing both sides of the argument how the prismatic differs than a 1x4 set on 1x.

I have put off going to scopes to rather 'just shoot the gun' but would look forward to F2S test since he is an admitted favorable user of 1x4 etc

Canonshooter

05-06-12, 11:34

For someone who only owns RDS like me, wouldn't these same things apply to all 1x4 scopes? Except maybe the TR24s because of the method of illumination of the reticle.

I am having a hard time weighing both sides of the argument how the prismatic differs than a 1x4 set on 1x.

I have put off going to scopes to rather 'just shoot the gun' but would look forward to F2S test since he is an admitted favorable user of 1x4 etc

If you can live with the extra weight, cost and bulk (and the need to manually turn on reticle illumination as needed), and value the utility of an optic that can be used without a battery, the 1-4/6/8X scope seems to be the top choice for a rifle that may be used to engage targets at any distance.

If your primary concern is CQC in any kind of lighting conditions and don't mind being 100% dependent on batteries/electronics, an "always on" RDS remains king.

If you're interested in a compromise solution between the two above, the Prismatic may fit the bill for you.

Tokarev

05-06-12, 11:44

Finally, with the advancements in variable scopes, I see the 1X optic as an evolutionary dead end.

This would certainly seem to be true. Same goes for the 3x and 4x options on the market. I have to wonder why Leupold has introduced the HAMR in a fixed power format rather than making a similar optic with a variable power option.

Canonshooter

05-06-12, 12:19

If you are using a 1-4X scope, how often do you set it at (for example) 2.4X?

At least in my case, all I need is the 1X and the 4X, and could live without else everything in between. The Elcan and Pitbull optics offer this and IMO makes more sense than infinitely variable scopes - especially if the transition between the settings is faster and easier than having to turn a stiff power ring 90 to 120 degrees.

Wouldn't it be nice to have an easily settable 1/3/6/10X scope with the recticle illumination battery life, weight and size of an Aimpoint T1?

Tokarev

05-06-12, 12:21

Wouldn't it be nice to have a 1-10X scope with the reticule illumination battery life, weight and size of an Aimpoint T1?

With the field of view of a drinking straw....:D

ChocLab

05-06-12, 12:49

.......

Singlestack Wonder

05-07-12, 14:30

You can use the Prismatic without it entirely, and the optic remains fully sealed/waterproof.

Obviously Kyle isn't a "serious user" either. :sarcastic:

Trying out a product is far different from having 110% confidence in real world, SHTF situations. Please find a military unit, swat, or private contractor company with men in the sandbox using the Leuplod prismatic as an issued unit, then your reference would have merit. Until then, it's just a fanboy favorite, turkey hunting optic, or perhaps oddity. ;)

With that said, if someone likes it and uses it for non-critical use such as ipsc matches, have fun.

Tomac

05-07-12, 18:31

Trying out a product is far different from having 110% confidence in real world, SHTF situations. Please find a military unit, swat, or private contractor company with men in the sandbox using the Leuplod prismatic as an issued unit, then your reference would have merit. Until then, it's just a fanboy favorite, turkey hunting optic, or perhaps oddity. ;)

With that said, if someone likes it and uses it for non-critical use such as ipsc matches, have fun.

In light of Leupold's reputation and real-world proven reliability of their other optics in LE/Mil, is there any reason to expect less from the Prismatic?
Tomac

Canonshooter

05-07-12, 18:48

Please find a military unit, swat, or private contractor company with men in the sandbox using the Leuplod prismatic as an issued unit...

Is this the only measure used to determine the fitness of a piece of gear for "serious" use?

Does this mean that any other piece of gear that does not meet this criteria is NFG?

And of course, using this narrow go/no-go criteria assumes that every piece of gear adapted by the military has been a resounding success - is that true as well?

Alaskapopo

05-07-12, 18:58

There is lots of good gear not used by the police or military. Sometimes it takes us a while in the LEO field to adapt to new technology. Not saying the Prismatic is the way to go but I am saying its not junk just because no LEO or MIL units have not picked it up yet.
Pat

Canonshooter

05-07-12, 19:53

Not saying the Prismatic is the way to go but I am saying its not junk just because no LEO or MIL units have not picked it up yet.

Pat, exactly my view as well.

I'm not a fanboy nor do I have a dog in the fight, but short of widespread documented defects, failures, poor quality control, etc. (which to the best of my knowledge does NOT exist) I think it deserves consideration. If a potential buyer can get fair and objective feedback on the pros and cons of any product - which I think is a reasonable expectation on this site - they can make an informed decision based on their needs/expectations.

Certainly the Prismatic is a unique product, some of whom will find fits their needs well while others will not. The design/feature set may be questionable to some, but IMO the quality of the product itself and the company behind it is not.

Tomac

05-27-12, 12:10

Battery life update: Just finished a test w/a new battery and the illumination module left on 24/7 at the lowest setting, checking every 12 hrs.
Got the low battery warning at appx 270hrs and the brightness began to dim noticeably right after that. At the 360hr mark I had to bump the brightness level up to 5 of 8 to approximate the original lowest brightness setting (obviously the battery wasn't going to last much longer at this point). The 25%-remaining low battery warning appears to be right-on.
Note: There appears to be at least two different versions of the illumination module.
One has a brighter lowest setting, can be turned off w/a single push of the button or a continuous push of 10+ seconds.
The other can be turned off w/a continuous button push of appx 5 seconds and flashes when reaching either the maximum or minimum brightness settings. My battery life test was done w/the first module w/the brighter lowest setting.
Tomac

olds442tyguy

05-28-12, 02:06

I can understand it not being your preference, but why the argumentative completely over the top foot stamping hate from a couple people? The dramatacized assumptions show an obviously unfounded pessimistic approach.

The people complaining about needing illumination, have you ever shot a 1x optic with no illumination? If the reticle disappears over dark targets in daylight you're either using unfit optics, made a poor reticle choice, need to have your vision checked, need to have a third party make sure you're using your gear properly, or you're fabricating things. Especially thicker reticles present on most 1-4's and the Pris. And since when is the upper spectrum of brightness so important at night?

I'm standing by for the torture test. My eyes aren't as good to me as they used to be and blooming has become an issue. I can still use a RDS fine, but I also like not having to rely on batteries which is very appealing. I would be a fool to doubt Leupold's ruggedness as other's have, but will wait just for peace of mind before I try one myself.

Barry in IN

05-31-12, 10:56

I bought a used Prismatic, and will see.

I love Aimpoints and bought my first one in 1985 (MKIII) but as my eyes age, red dots are becoming red splatters. OK, It's not that bad yet, but I am finding I turn them down a lot of the time to kill the bloom, when before, I'd just leave it on all the way.

I was thinking low-power scope, but some of the discussion here made me consider the Prismatic. I know there are negatives, but I don't think they are all that bad for me. The only time I expect to use batt power is when there is a bump in the night, and the batt life should cover quite a few bumps.

If I had to pay full price for one, I might not have taken the chance. As it was, I snagged a used one for under $300, and was willing to give it a shot for that.

Then again, my last optic experiment failed. I bought a Nikon P-223 for a coyote rifle, and it lasted less than a day before it came apart inside and looked like a kaleidoscope. I didn't expect much for the money, but I did expect more than that.

Failure2Stop

05-31-12, 11:09

Just to update this, we received our 2 models for testing. There are some things that my scratched eyes appreciate.

That being said, the mount that comes with it is below par for the type I an used to. I might simply need to remount and Loctite it (I didn't use any initially just to see), but I had zero shift.

More to come.

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spring1271

05-31-12, 11:16

The Prismatic was the most economical way for me and my aging eyes to go. I have at least seven aimpoints I no longer can use due to eyesight. When my eyes were under 45 years old i loved them!. But i dont find the Prismatic slows me at all and the illumination i only use in low light conditions. The dot is larger , 6 moa I believe but for CQB work s well and the fiel of view and glass quality is better to me than aimpoint. For more versitility on my most carried rifle i am now using a US Optics 1x4 DFP and it rocks! But again battery life for some would be a problem and it washes out in bright light but no need for Illum in bright light with a reticle. So until someone makes a diopter adjustable RDS the Prismatic is the way i have found to go. But the bomb is the 1x4 DFP . Yes it weighs more but it does more.

R600

06-26-12, 19:16

Failure2Stop

06-27-12, 10:01

Failure2Stop,

Any updates on your testing. I'm actually interested in the Prismatic since my Aimpoint dots are constantly distorted in some way or another with my eyes. I love my T1, like my Pro, and do okay with an EoTech, but I'm very intersted in this sight.

Thanks

I just got back from a trip, and only had the Prismatics for a few weeks before I left.

We have an example of both of the reticles, the Circle Dot and the Crosshair Dot. So far, I like the fineness of the dot in the Circle Dot, but the centering of the Crosshair.

They take a little acclimatizing, not quite as point and click simple as an aimpoint. The super clear dot is really nice, and so far I have not had a lighting condition that the optic could not keep pace with.

The included mount is usable, but I would be a lot happier with the LaRue offering.

We haven't put them through much use, so I can't comment on their durability/robustness yet, but that's coming.

Tomac

06-27-12, 10:23

Thanks for the update, looking forward to the rest of your eval.
Tomac

R600

06-27-12, 18:15

Thanks. I'm taking a chance and ordered one with the Double Circle Dot. I also ordered the Larue mount. I keep my T1 on the Larue quick detach mount so if I have to I can always do a quick change between the two depending on the planned use for the day.

Time will tell what I like. I'm probably going to end up with more red dot type of scopes than I really need, but oh well there is always the equipment exchange.

R600

07-10-12, 15:54

usmcvet

07-10-12, 19:00

I look forward to more info on this too. Getting old sucks. The 2 MOA RDS work for me but I was astonished at a photo of a RDS the freaking dot was clear!

Nelz16

07-11-12, 04:25

My unit picked up about 400 of these (must have gotten one hell of a deal). They're rolling them out to everyone replacing EOtechs. We're finding that they have a big failure rate for losing their zero and about 10% have other mechanical issues. Unfortunately, they were purchased without a proper R&D process and are being rolled out rather quickly. The mount is pretty small which leads me to believe any jarring is causing it to lose its zero. Also, being brought in and out of armoured trucks on a daily basis can't be very forgiving. That being said, the EOtechs didn't have any such issues.

Tomac

07-11-12, 06:55

Nelz16

07-11-12, 08:46

I can only speak for the guys who had issues on the line with me. One had debris inside his newly installed sight, one had his sight fall off completely after a day of shooting and another had a zero that wouldn't hold. Locktite was applied after the one scope loosened itself (it was installed by professional armourer but perhaps he was to blame), the wandering zero(s) wasn't fixed by applying Locktite. I've used the sight and I like it when it works but the fact that some (not all) lose its zero (even when Locktite is applied) after basic range use and patrols For it to move that much is unacceptable compared to an EOtech that can take a beating. I'll find out the details on the other issues people were having and post them. Perhaps we got a bad batch but I'm not confident in them. Not the quality one would expect from a leupold product.

Failure2Stop

07-11-12, 08:50

I gave the Prismatic a try and was disappointed. For me the small center dot in the DCD reticle was too small. I would loose the small dot on my target. I also had a difficult time adjusting it for my astigmatism. Overall I was disappointed and it didn't do anything for me that an Aimpoint or EoTech doesn't do better.

Were you using illumination on the target you were losing the for in?
What target/color/distance were you seeing the problem?
I do quite a bit of shooting on black B8 targets and black 1" squares, but if I think there might be an issue I turn the illumination on.
Have you used other optics with a diopter adjustment?
I'm not trying to invalidate your experience, just want to know where the failure point was so I can recreate it.

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Failure2Stop

07-11-12, 08:55

Do you know if Loctite was used on the mounts? Kelly Neal on page 1 of this thread mentioned Loctite seems to have fixed loss of zero on another Prismatic.

I ignored the advice when I first got the optics in, and I think I had a zero shift (though the initial zero was less than optimal). I haven't seen the issue come back up since I loctited the screws. If I decide to hang onto the prismatic for longer term testing I well definitely be picking up a LaRue mount for it.

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R600

07-12-12, 00:23

FS2,

I was shooting a bullseye target, 5.5 black center, not sure the number of the target at the moment at 100 yards. I lost the small center dot in the target. I turned on the light, but it didn't help any, but it was middle of the day in bright sunlight. Even with the sight on the brightest setting it still didn't help me.

I'm back to using my Aimpoint T1 (4 MOA). The Prismatic did have a clear and sharp image, but it didn't help me as I was hoping it would.

jmart

07-12-12, 09:25

What is the weak point in the stock mount, the screws or the screw-tensioned clamping base?

Singlestack Wonder

07-13-12, 09:44

Do you know if Loctite was used on the mounts? Kelly Neal on page 1 of this thread mentioned Loctite seems to have fixed loss of zero on another Prismatic.
Also, what were the other mechanical issues if you don't mind me asking?
Thx...
Tomac

Here we go. Loc-Tite required to hold zero? Dot disappearing on target due to in adequate illumination capability. The questions about the prismatic's issues and non-acceptance have been answered.

Failure2Stop

07-13-12, 10:17

Here we go. Loc-Tite required to hold zero? Dot disappearing on target due to in adequate illumination capability. The questions about the prismatic's issues and non-acceptance have been answered.

I'm still working to replicate the lighting conditions to get the dot to become invisible on a dark background. I'm not saying it's impossible, I just haven't done it yet. This is however, more of an issue with reticle than overall design.

It isn't a T1.

The experience continues.

ETA: what mounts don't require Loctite? I know all of mine do.

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Nelz16

07-13-12, 12:28

Here we go. Loc-Tite required to hold zero? Dot disappearing on target due to in adequate illumination capability. The questions about the prismatic's issues and non-acceptance have been answered.

Yes, the sight doesn't make the shooter confident, that's for certain. A fellow officer had to turn his sight 21 clicks to get back on paper after 4 weeks of regular duties (walking and driving around). It's not like he was doing anything like throwing it off buildings or anything. Can you imagine "sorry, I can't walk up these stairs, my rifle may lose its zero…'

Failure2Stop

07-13-12, 15:36

Yup, improperly mounted and maintained optics will fail with frightening regularity.

Yes, the sight doesn't make the shooter confident, that's for certain. A fellow officer had to turn his sight 21 clicks to get back on paper after 4 weeks of regular duties (walking and driving around). It's not like he was doing anything like throwing it off buildings or anything. Can you imagine "sorry, I can't walk up these stairs, my rifle may lose its zero…'

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Nelz16

07-13-12, 16:41

Yup, improperly mounted and maintained optics will fail with frightening regularity.

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A rifle slung to a person hardly classifies as improperly maintained if that's what you're implying. As for the mounting, it was done by a professional armorer. If a scope can't handle the rigors of someone walking/driving around, I don't see how it would be fit for any type of tactical operation. Just sayin…

Failure2Stop

07-13-12, 17:14

There are plenty of guys using them for much more rigorous activities, as have I, and if they are losing zero one can choose to blame Leopold, our they can use some Loctite and solve the issue and mount the base to the body at the appropriate torque level as well as the clamp to mount the optic too the receiver..
I agree that a bad mount is a bad mount, but there are solutions to that.
I have seen the highest quality optics lose zero due to bad mounting. Who's to blame, the optic or the user?

Throwing around "one time this one guy lost zero" statements means little anyway without supporting data.
What is the experience level of the user?
Skill level? Optics experience?
What distance was the optic zeroed?
Verified?
Was there any change in environment, gear, ammunition, or user?
What was the mounting procedure?

I have seen everything fail, more important that the "what" is usually the "why".

I hate that I an being forced into a position where I am seemingly defending a product, specifically because it is a product that I am still testing. I get annoyed when certain comments are made without anything to substantiate them other than that the poster said it happened.

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sniperfrog

07-13-12, 18:58

... As for the mounting, it was done by a professional armorer.

My dept. armorer mounted a Leupold CQT on backwards. People can make mistakes. Just sayin'. ;)

pete57

07-19-12, 10:50

Failure2stop....I'm considering getting a prismatic because red dots are annoying to me due to astigmatism. I'm not sure which reticle to get though. I'm leaning toward the dcd reticle because the concentric rings seem like they would pull your eye to the center and I like the smaller dot.... but I'm concerned that the 3moa dot may be lost easily when shooting against dark targets...and I don't want to rely on the illumination. Maybe the fat ring makes losing the dot moot??? The 6moa dot on the circle plex would likely be harder to loose but 6moa is pretty big at even 200 yards. If anyone has good pics through the scope with the dcd reticle it would be helpful to see them. Anyway, which reticle should I go with?

Failure2Stop

07-19-12, 11:47

Tokarev

07-19-12, 11:58

I like aspects of both reticles.
Chris is primarily shooting the crosshair reticle and I am primarily shooting the DCD reticle.

The center dot can kinda get lost on a black target, but I have been able to preempt the problem and just use the illumination. The thick ring doesn't do much for targeting, more for grabbing your attention.

At this point, I think i would go with the crosshair if my application was 200 meters and in. I would like to see some different reticles in the prismatic for a better blend of close and mid range.

Just remember that the prismatic is not an EoTech or Aimpoint, you will need to adjust focus and eye box is a factor.

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I have the crosshair model and would like to comment, if I may.

The crosshair is nice and the stadia lines help draw the eye to the center of the reticle. I've found the crosshair reticle to be easy to pick up and easy to track if shooting at moving targets, etc.

With that said, the guys who want to use the sight for more precision shooting probably aren't going to like the crosshair reticle since it is rather big and bulky. At 100 yards, the center dot will nearly cover an 8" bullseye.

Not really a complaint, I guess, but it is something to be aware of if you're looking at getting a Prismatic. Consider what you'll be primarily shooting and make the reticle choice accordingly.

Tomac

07-19-12, 14:49

I've owned both reticles and my fav is the DCD; I find it faster for me at all ranges (YMMV).
I only have a pic of the DCD at 0830 w/the sun behind overcast at my 3 o'clock, aiming at a std silhouette at 50yds:
Unilluminated:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofPrismaticDCDBlack002a.jpg
Max illumination:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofPrismaticDCDRed008a.jpg

Tomac

pete57

07-20-12, 06:41

Thanks for the replies....now I'm more indecisive then before...haha.

I guess each reticle has its own uses and one is not better than the other...just different tools for different jobs. It's like asking which is better, a ferrari or a truck...neither, they have different applications. I guess that is my question...what is the circle plex better suited for and what is the dcd better suited for?

Tomac

07-20-12, 06:56

Failure2Stop

07-20-12, 11:47

There's a lot of personal preference involved in reticle choice. Ex: Some prefer Eotech's circle-dot reticle while others find it too cluttered and prefer a simple dot.
I find the circle-plex too cluttered for me but really like the DCD's 1moa center dot and the way the double circles help center the target quickly.
Tomac

I would really like to see a hybrid of the two reticles.
I like the fine dot in the DCD, but it is possible to lose it in a dark background.

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Tokarev

07-20-12, 12:29

I would really like to see a hybrid of the two reticles.
I like the fine dot in the DCD, but it is possible to lose it in a dark background.

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I'd like to see something similar to the CMR2 reticle. A large horse shoe for quick and close shooting with a fine center dot for precision accuracy. Obviuosly the reticle wouldn't need to hash marks for hold over out to 800m or whatever but maybe one or two marks out to 300m might be nice.

Barry in IN

07-21-12, 19:29

I would really like to see a hybrid of the two reticles.
I like the fine dot in the DCD, but it is possible to lose it in a dark background.

I've been using mine for a little under two months now, but that's about what I've decided, although it may not be the same hybrid you had in mind. I have the Circle Plex, and think that reticle with a smaller circle would be about right for me. At the large size the circle is, I don't see that it serves much purpose. If it was about the size of the inner circle of the DCD, I think it would help up close while having the crosshair/dot for finer stuff.

For those looking and thinking about these, here are some random things I've found:

The Leupold reticle illustrations make the Circle Plex look like the dot almost blends in with the crosshairs, but the dot appears to stand away from them pretty clearly to me.

I have not found a lighting/background situation where I could not see the reticle. Most of the time in daylight, I see it fine without illumination. Sometimes a little contrast provided by the illumination is nice, but not really necessary. I dark/low light, the range of illum setting has been enough to cover anything I've needed.

Whenever the Prismatic comes up, the subject of eye relief and eye position comes up as a factor killing it from consideration. I was really concerned about this. What I found is that it is more forgiving that a typical scope, though I don't know why. It's a lot more like an Aimpoint than a scope in this respect. It is useable from any eye relief from having my eye almost touching the ocular lens to holding the carbine at arms length. Same with my eye alignment behind the scope- if I can see through a segment of the tube, I can see the reticle. Of course I can use it easier if I can get where I want, but it's nothing like the eye placement sensitivity of a regular scope.
I have not found a position where I could not sight through it.

The Larue mount is well worth buying, but that goes without saying.

The jury is still out, and will be for some time, but I am liking the Prismatic.

Anunnaki

10-22-12, 02:17

Has a thorough T&E been done on this sight yet? I'm thinking of giving one a try.

pete57

10-25-12, 13:40

Failure2Stop

10-25-12, 14:12

Has a thorough T&E been done on this sight yet? I'm thinking of giving one a try.

We have been using them for a few months, and while I cannot talk to long-term durability, I have found that they stood up to high volume fire and the various impacts and rough handling found in high intensity training.

The stock mount needs to be replaced with an aftermarket alternative.

They work decently in low light/with white light due to the boldness of the reticle, even though the illumination isn't great (think traditional scope illumination), so they aren't as bright as an Aimpoint or EoTech. This really isn't that big of a deal, as users of those optics will have to choose a reticle brightness appropriate to lighting conditions (bright enough to be easily seen when using a white light is usually too bright without the light wash, and low enough to be used in the ambient light is usually too dim to work with a WML), issues that won't effect the Prismatic.

They are more precise on small targets for guys like me that have good sight but see dot distortion in Aimpoints and EoTechs due to corneal scars or other eye issues/injuries.

The view through them is not the same as that through a 0 magnification optic, and needs to be properly focused. They really work the same as a low powered variable dialed down to 1. It will take some time to get used to the visual input, but a bit of time is all it takes.

Both reticles work, but if you might need to shoot to long range and apply decent hold-over I recommend the DCD. If you are going to be doing everything within 100 meters, I prefer the "tactical" crosshair model, as I like it the boldness of the reticle lines for use in low/no light situations.

I don't necessarily think that they are better than an Aimpoint, but a different way to get to the same place, and with the advantage of a crisper/cleaner reticle for me.

All that being said, one thing that the Aimpoint has over it is history and market share. What this equates to is a better understanding of the item simply due to the numbers that are in use.

Anunnaki

10-25-12, 15:50

I'm very close to buying either a prismatic with the dcd reticle or a trijicon 1.5x16 (ta44sr-10).

I'm unsure about the trijicon though because it is 1.5 magnification. The only store near me that carries one won't even let you take it outside to look at it....really??? I'm not dropping $900(their price) on something you won't even let me look at in the sunlight. My hesitation is that while I understand the Bindon aiming concept and have practiced with it on a variable scope, transitioning focus from one eye to the other seems clumsy. Not ever having used an acog or the BAC in a real world situation makes it hard to determine these things in practical use without actually using them.

I'll be selling my aimpoint h1 with larue mount as soon as I decide on its replacement.

Ok so money not being a factor.... 1x prismatic or 1.5 acog?

I have the TA44SR-10, the BAC transition at 1.5x is quick with practice, close to but not RDS quick. However, beyond house clearing distance I cant tell a difference in speed and I'm much more accurate with it.

The only real con is you cant shoot ambidextrously with both eyes open, the magnified view wont switch to your weak eye, so you will have to close one eye in those transition drills or choose a different optic. This would be an even bigger problem for someone with cross eye dominance.

Other than that, one minor drawback is the reticle fade under certain conditions. When there is just enough light to overpower the tritium, but not enough to illuminate the fiber optics or wash out the illumination completely (going to black reticle) the reticle fades a little and is difficult to pick up quickly. I think a Green reticle under these conditions would be easier to see than Red.

Anunnaki

10-25-12, 18:22

We have been using them for a few months, and while I cannot talk to long-term durability, I have found that they stood up to high volume fire and the various impacts and rough handling found in high intensity training.

The stock mount needs to be replaced with an aftermarket alternative.

They work decently in low light/with white light due to the boldness of the reticle, even though the illumination isn't great (think traditional scope illumination), so they aren't as bright as an Aimpoint or EoTech. This really isn't that big of a deal, as users of those optics will have to choose a reticle brightness appropriate to lighting conditions (bright enough to be easily seen when using a white light is usually too bright without the light wash, and low enough to be used in the ambient light is usually too dim to work with a WML), issues tyhat won't effect the Prismatic.

They are more precise on small targets for guys like me that have good sight but see dot distortion in Aimpoints and EoTechs due to corneal scars or other eye issues/injuries.

The view through them is not the same as that through a 0 magnification optic, and needs to be properly focused. They really work the same as a low powered variable dialed down to 1. It will take some time to get used to the visual input, but a bit of time is all it takes.

Both reticles work, but if you might need to shoot to long range and apply decent hold-over I recommend the DCD. If you are going to be doing everything within 100 meters, I prefer the "tactical" crosshair model, as I like it the boldness of the reticle lines for use in low/no light situations.

I don't necessarily think that they are better than an Aimpoint, but a different way to get to the same place, and with the advantage of a crisper/cleaner reticle for me.

All that being said, one thing that the Aimpoint has over it is history and market share. What this equates to is a better understanding of the item simply due to the numbers that are in use.

Thanks for the informative reply! One of the things I do like most about it is that the reticle seems to be very bold and illumination isn't always needed; especially in conjunction with a white light. And from what few reviews I can find it seems that illumination on lowest setting is fine when it is needed.

I originally thought of trying one on my AR, but I think it would also fit the bill perfectly on a Marlin guide gun. :)