View Full Version : Am I crazy??? Charter Arms Bulldog .44
I'm finding myself more and more intrigued by the concept of a small, inexpensive, big bore revolver (which won't be quite as punishing as .357 magnum) for a self-defense/ccw. In hammerless DAO flavor.
The price seems right, and from what I've read, as long as I stay away from the Charco or Charter 2000 versions, it should be reliable and trustworthy.
Heck for the price, I'd think about carrying two!
Still plan on keeping my 9mm semiauto as my main training/ccw gun. The plan for the .44 Special is for when I need something smaller for concealment.
Thoughts on the Bulldog? A search didn't bring up a whole lot on here.
If your just trying to find a cheap concealable carry revolver why not find a used S&W 642, a big bore revolver is no more better suited for defensive purpose's then a 38 loaded with +p's... and I've shot a bulldog 44 before, but it was so long ago and when i still wasn't very proficient with a pistol so i can't really comment on it except to say i don't remember anything to spectacular about it.
I don't know--I may still do that. I'd prefer the bigger bullet and perhaps have the benefit of better barrier performance though I recognize that the improvement (if any) may be marginal. I would like to have better data on .44 special v .38 special +p lethality and barrier performance. I really don't know.
Unspectacular is fine. Looking for simple, plain-jane, effective.
I can't imagine there being any difference in lethality between the two, and i have no idea which is better against barriers, i would guess the heavier of the two would be better and if the 44 sp is better i would bet it's fairly marginal. Aside from your prefernce/questions on the caliber, looking at the requirment you have for the revolver-cheap, reliable, simple, hamerless and given that you typically carry a 9mm it seems like the 642 is the gun for you. 38 special is a way more common round then the 44 special, it's easier to shoot, cheaper to buy and the gun will be less bulky and a big difference between the two companies(S&W vs Charter Arms) is a solid reputation. Look at how many people carry a bulldog 44 as a bug opposed to how many carry a 642 or similar j frame.
The Bulldog goes back to the era when semi-autos weren't as reliable, .38 ammunition was feeble and modern hollowpoints tailored to specific velocities weren't available. At the time, it and the Star PD .45 were two of the more popular choices among knowledgeable professionals.
Today, the Bulldog holds no advantage. There are many far more effective platforms and ammunition available than back then. It's still a cool gun and I'd still like to own one, but I probably wouldn't carry it for defense. Same for the PD.
I have three charter arms revolver. two 38 specials and a 357. the 357 is my wifes future carry gun. she has weak side wrist problems so a semi does not cycle reliably for her. she loves the 357 it is ported and she can chew through rounds with it. she practices with 38s. we have ran probably 400 rounds through it and i am considering getting another. it is plain but it functions and that is what i want for her. i also drop the 38 in a pocket when i do not feel like strapping on my glock 27. she will not let me carry her 357. :-)
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The old Bulldogs were good guns, but I can't remember the last time I laid hands on one, so I know nothing of current production models.
If memory serves, it was a bit on the bulky side. Small for a .44, but hardly tiny.
I'd opt for a 642 or Glock 26. In fact, I do. ;)
you're neighbor's dog isn't talking to you, is he? and your dad's name isn't Sam, is it?
Bruce in WV
04-04-12, 18:42
I bought one to leave with my wife for SD when I went to VN way back when. We went to the range with some factory RNL 44spls. I had been shooting a LOT of 45acp on the base pistol team and felt pretty studly when I touched off that sucker the first time! Second round hurt worse than the first! We put it away for the duration and got her a 38, which I loaded with with reversed hollow base wadcutter handloads.
Borrow one to try out first. You may be tough enough to handle it well - I know I wasn't!
you're neighbor's dog isn't talking to you, is he?
No, of course not!
I mean not lately... :eek:
Thx for all the replies--sounds like bulldog's time has come and gone.
I love the concept, but not so sure about the execution. A couple of years ago, I picked one up in our LGS pulled the trigger, and the trigger stuck in the rearward position.(new gun)
FWIW, John Taffin is a big .44 Bulldog fan.
Skip
iveschrhis
04-06-12, 09:43
What does a 20-ish ounce revolver do for you that you need done? Most loads will not expand out of such short barrels. At this relative light weight, you'll get some thump either deterring good shooting at speed for most.
I might recommend a recent discussion by Doc Roberts and others on the role of J frames/small guns and minimum, acceptable levels of gun-ness here and at 10-8 Forums.
I'd suggest some things to think about.
What do you need? How much risk are you willing to accept?
How much training time are you willing to invest in the suite of skills associated with running a small wheel gun in the perspective of your normal carry, hand to hand proficiency, etc and other self defense considerations?
I looked hard at all of this recently. What got my attention last year was what it took me to reload weak hand only after working through strong hand supported, strong hand only, weak hand supported, then weak hand only (with a pair of Colt Detective Specials and a pair of J-frames). Most folks can measure their reload times - and with five rounds this could happen soon - in geologic eras of time, myself included.
But, I do own a Bulldog at least for a little while longer (it may go on consignment next week at my LGS).
I came by a recent manufacture one in trade about two months ago. The previous owner had dovetailed a night sight in the ramped front sight blade and fitted a pair of boot grips to the frame. This Bulldog is DAO either from the previous owner's rendering or from the factory and has been calibrated it seems for W-W Silvertips.
At five yards this Bulldog shoots five Silvertips into about a 2" diamond as fast as I can put the dot back onto the point of aim. I put Pachmayr Compacs on it to get full-hand purchase on the grip which tightens up things considerably.
I queried the factory about either buying parts or having them convert it to SA/DA with a non-bobbed hammer. Customer Service got right back to me saying either course of action was possible and to just let them know.
Such guns for me are special purpose guns for tertiary requirements like in an ankle holster or an overcoat/parka pocket as an adjunct to my normal carry gun. Other special purpose issues can be snake shot, for example, if live in such areas.
The late Mel Tappan talked about the concept of working guns for everyday carry if self defense was not a primary concern. Such revolvers can be serially loaded for a range - so to speak - of circumstances: a couple of rounds of snake shot, then the balance of the cylinder with JHPs or SWCs at a managable velocity for whatever.
Hope some or all of this helps.
Hope some or all of this helps.
Yeah, that's great, thank you.
I wasn't thinking of putting too much effort into it, maybe a couple thousand rounds a year. I'm leaning now more towards just concentrating on my semi-auto, at least this year. Have a ways to go for proficiency with that.
i like the .44 Special, and shoot it regularly (CCI Blazer w/the GD bullet) in my Ruger SBH for eliminating smaller critters on my farm(coyote, coon, etc), but imo one of the biggest drawback to the round is the lack of selection concerning factory loaded ammo. alotta folks DONT "roll their own", so what you see on the shelves is what you get.
i feel if the firearms companies would push more new model .44 snubbies out the door and market them well, we might see a rebirth of the round. just like we did when the .380 craze hit the market. unfortunately i dont see that happening.... but i will admit, the newer Bulldogs have been hard to ignore when i come across one at the gun shows. if i didnt like it, it would be a lesson learned, and i wouldnt exactly be out a ton of cash.
Seems like you could get a sp101 in 327 mag if you want more umph than a 38spl but not as much as a 357, and you'd have an extra round to boot!
Canonshooter
04-11-12, 17:24
you're neighbor's dog isn't talking to you, is he? and your dad's name isn't Sam, is it?
My thoughts exactly.
A cool conversation/range piece? Yes.
Something for serious concealed carry in 2012? Too many better choices....
Dave James
04-12-12, 12:12
I love the "bulldogs" and just finished smoothing out two for friends, the "new" Charter Arms, seems to making a good product,but like most lower cost revolvers these days they need some small work done, they still appear to be the same size as the old Colt "Dick SPl" as they fit in my Berns&Martin and Bianchi shoulder rigs that are made for the DS. Don't know about now but about the best load going for the old girls back a few years was the 200 grain Silver tip that winchester had out, short of the hand loaded "man stopper" wad cutter, every thing I shot with it never was a problem again, my first wife still has the one I bought for her back in the 60's, and she suffers from "Bakers cyst" in both wrist, she can shoot it but not a semi-auto any thing any more
I liked that Silvertip load,DJ.Carried it in my 629 with the SO.
Controllable and smacked hard.
you're neighbor's dog isn't talking to you, is he? and your dad's name isn't Sam, is it?
Damn it Rob you beat me to it! :p
Combat_Diver
04-18-12, 12:45
I traded a Ruger .30 carbine Blackhawk for 3" Bulldog some 20 years ago. Still have it and use it as a woods roaming gun. First round or two in the cylinder is shotshells (have killed few copperheads) and rest 240 gr SWCs (there's also alligators, black bears and boars in the swamps here). Just shoot mine again last week and still holding up.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/CA_Bulldog.JPG
I think it is best as a woods gun as recoil is stout. My DIL has a new CA Pink Lady in .38 SPL that hasn't had any issues. I also carry a Smith 442 in the pocket for SD use.
CD
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/specials.html Looks like they're on sale through saturday, if the OP is still interested!
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/specials.html Looks like they're on sale through saturday, if the OP is still interested!
Thanks for the head's up. Nice price. Though after some thought, I think I'd be better served buying $300 of ammo for my 9mm!
Thanks for the head's up. Nice price. Though after some thought, I think I'd be better served buying $300 of ammo for my 9mm!
LOL! I hear that.
I've owned a couple Charter Arms .44's, going back 30+ years. The older ones were serviceable guns, as long as you accept them for what they are. For quite a few years, the word was that the quality had slipped. I just got one of the new production ones, and it looks like they have returned to making a decent gun. Looking forward to getting it to the range in the next couple weeks.
iveschrhis
05-22-12, 05:58
I bought my first Bulldog after talking to a colleague who had two and was satisfied; older guns as Jake's Dad mentioned. The "Charco" vintage Bulldog I bought new in about 1993 had QC issues. I owned it for about 50 rounds and it went away in a trade. This vintage revolver had a fixed barrel in a shroud. The shroud on mine began to unscrew under recoil forces of factory ammo in the first ten rounds. Not.
My current Bulldog is a recent build and is fine (as detailed above). If there's a lesson, it seems to be buy a classic, older one or a contemporary one.
I bought my first Bulldog after talking to a colleague who had two and was satisfied; older guns as Jake's Dad mentioned. The "Charco" vintage Bulldog I bought new in about 1993 had QC issues. I owned it for about 50 rounds and it went away in a trade. This vintage revolver had a fixed barrel in a shroud. The shroud on mine began to unscrew under recoil forces of factory ammo in the first ten rounds. Not.
My current Bulldog is a recent build and is fine (as detailed above). If there's a lesson, it seems to be buy a classic, older one or a contemporary one.
Yeah, it's been a while since I looked up their warranty on their website but IIRC they only cover newer-ish guns with their lifetime warranty. I always wondered if that was because the older (but not super old) guns had too many problems or what?
Looking forward to getting it to the range in the next couple weeks.
Let us know how it turns out--I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on it.
I have owned three different Charters over the years, I'll pass on ever doing so again.
One, a .38 snub, I wrecked when it was brand new by firing exactly 47 rounds of 125gr Federal JHP through it.
Service life on a handgun, other than a Liberator, should be more than 47 rounds. Just my wild ass opinion.
I'm a big .44 Special fan. Until I can afford a cusyom Ruger GP-100 5-shot Special conversion, I decided to pick up a new Charter Arms Bulldog Pug. I only have 200 rounds of my cast bullrt reloads through it. It's obviously nothing like my custom S&W's, but it seems like a basic, reliable revilver.
Ballistic Agency
06-17-12, 22:32
Every year at the end of SHOT we go by their booth to count how many of their revolvers are broken from dry firing. It's usually several... I think it was 4 this year.
One of the two Beretta Nanos that was out this year was broken as well.
The cost and availabilty of 44Spl ammo is a big factor. I'd be more interested in a 40 S&W revolver.
Out of 4 Charter Arms bulldogs I have shot, only 2 hit where they were pointed. And then only with 240 grain loads.
I don't have any experience with the Charter Arms Bulldog but I am also looking for a good 44sp snubbie. When I want to go "old school" I leave my SA's at home and carry one 2.5" Python & one 2.5" Lawman, both in .357mag. I am a lefty and carry them in a "New York Reload" holster in the 9:00 position. That way I have the Python as a strong side snubbie and the Lawman as a cross-draw snubbie and don't have to mess with reloads if I need more then 6 rounds. I have found some fine S&W 44 specials over the years but unfortunately none have been 2" or 2 1/2" snubbies. I do have an S&W 5 round 696 44 special (no dash or internal lock) and although it is a fine revolver, it has a 3" bbl. and is about as heavy as both my Python and Lawman put together. I use it for target use only.
I will do a little reserach and if the newer Bulldogs have the same quality of the older models, then I will probably get a pair for NY Reload carry.
MadDog :dirol:
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8216/coltlawman013.jpg
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7641/coltlawman005.jpg
Magic_Salad0892
08-20-12, 00:18
My thoughts exactly.
A cool conversation/range piece? Yes.
Something for serious concealed carry in 2012? Too many better choices....
I thought that dude rolled a Smith?
whitecoyote
12-27-12, 22:17
Back in the 70's Mag-Na-Port made a custom conversion revolver from a Charter Arms BullDog. They called it the "Backpacker". I believe they were serialed numbered from 1 - 200. When Ken Kelly (Mag-Na-Port) showed me pictures of the backpacker, I knew I had to have one. Ken told me I would have to locate an older BullDog without the underlug on the barrel.
About a year ago I found a nice Charter Arms BullDog. It was an older model from the early 70's, and blued. I paid $200.00 for the BullDog. Then off it went to Mag-Na-Port for the conversion. A few days ago I received it back. Some of the things that were done to it was the barrel shortened to 1.75", barrel porting, eliminate the front sight, bobbed hammer, hard chrome finish, and trigger job. I will eventually have Patrick Grashorn make some Elk grips for it.
I shot 25 rounds of Winchester Silver tips through it today. Without a front if you try to aim it, the BullDog shoots all over the place. So I did point & shoot, and it worked pretty good. All this was at about 10 feet.
http://i53.tinypic.com/jhts0o.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/sw5mcm.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/25hllx3.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/29g0spu.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/28lw1g9.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/m8eg6e.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/29p6kd4.jpg
whitecoyote
12-27-12, 22:27
My other Charter Arms BullDog Pug (by Mag-Na-Port).
http://i49.tinypic.com/15wchw4.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2dbpi81.jpg
I thought that dude rolled a Smith?
Nope. Charter Bulldog.
I had a Bulldog Pug that I carried about 30 years ago. It shot well and I never had a single problem with it. As usual when I was younger I got a hankerin' for something else and traded it off. Always regretted and will get another some day. I reload and still have loads for the one I had way back then.
JackyYeung
01-02-13, 21:13
I have a charter arms .44 3 inch and I have used it as my concealed carry. With 240 grain lead reloads it hits right where it is aimed. But I find it easier to conceal a 1911 than the charter. My dad has 3 of the charters and one of his shoots the bullets end over end. Not sure why. They are a cheesy gun IMO.
Still want one. I am anxiously awaiting the 45acp Pitbull to be released.
I've had a .44 Pug for over 20 years, no issues, thou I don't shoot it a lot. I think enough to make it one of my hidden in plain sight houseguns. I think the recoil is mild, but then they are not built to withstand any loads heavier than standard factory loads. I like what magnaport has done with the .44, but I won't give up my front sight !
Devildawg2531
02-22-13, 16:07
Insteda of the Charter Arms 44 Special Bulldog I would go with either a snub nose S&W 329PD or S&W 629 and have a much higher quality and the versatility of using either 44 Mag or 44 Special
Insteda of the Charter Arms 44 Special Bulldog I would go with either a snub nose S&W 329PD or S&W 629 and have a much higher quality and the versatility of using either 44 Mag or 44 Special
The 329PD and 3-4" 629's are not in the same size class as the Bulldog. They're intended for completely different roles. S&W did try a 5 shot .44 in the 296 and 396 though.
Devildawg2531
02-22-13, 18:10
The 329PD and 3-4" 629's are not in the same size class as the Bulldog. They're intended for completely different roles. S&W did try a 5 shot .44 in the 296 and 396 though.
Got that. They also arent in the same class for quality or versatility as the 329PD or 629 - I would trade a little size for that all day. But if cheap and small are the main criteria proceed.
I've had a bulldog pug for several years, and really wanted to like it.. But i finally gave in and traded it off today..
I liked the concept but the charter just always felt cheap.
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Got that. They also aren't in the same class for quality or versatility as the 329PD or 629 - I would trade a little size for that all day. But if cheap and small are the main criteria proceed.
Quality is always good. Versatility is overrated in this particular case. Size and weight are the primary factors. FWIW, I have a 4" 629 Mountain Gun. It's an excellent woods gun. However, it is not an excellent CCW gun and in a lot of cases, it gets carried with a shotshell and five .44 Special Gold Dots.
Insteda of the Charter Arms 44 Special Bulldog I would go with either a snub nose S&W 329PD or S&W 629 and have a much higher quality and the versatility of using either 44 Mag or 44 Special
Got that. They also arent in the same class for quality or versatility as the 329PD or 629 - I would trade a little size for that all day. But if cheap and small are the main criteria proceed.
Doesn't matter how high of quality if it doesn't fit the hand. The 329/629 are N-Frame revolvers and require an XL hand to shoot properly. My medium-to-large hands just cannot manipulate the DA trigger stroke of the N-Frame effeciently. J's, K's and L's work just fine. I can get my finger on the sweet spot.
Devildawg2531
02-23-13, 09:59
Doesn't matter how high of quality if it doesn't fit the hand. The 329/629 are N-Frame revolvers and require an XL hand to shoot properly. My medium-to-large hands just cannot manipulate the DA trigger stroke of the N-Frame effeciently. J's, K's and L's work just fine. I can get my finger on the sweet spot.
and that's why I said "I would go with a snub nose S&W 329 or 629. I'm not a small guy with small hands so being able to hold an N frame Smith is not an issue - unless your a dwarf are N frames really too large to hold? The 329 PD weighs 29.7oz and the 629 weighs 39 oz vs the Charter Arms Bulldog weighing 21 oz. So for 8 oz more I get higher quality, better accuracy, better trigger, better sights, ability to shoot 44 mag and 44 Spc and an increase to 6 shots from 5. If you are a dwarf or have issues carrying 8 more oz than I would look elsewhere. I wouldn't choose either as my primary CCW as there are better options than 44 Spc revolvers.
and that's why I said "I would go with a snub nose S&W 329 or 629. I'm not a small guy with small hands so being able to hold an N frame Smith is not an issue - unless your a dwarf are N frames really too large to hold? The 329 PD weighs 29.7oz and the 629 weighs 39 oz vs the Charter Arms Bulldog weighing 21 oz. So for 8 oz more I get higher quality, better accuracy, better trigger, better sights, ability to shoot 44 mag and 44 Spc and an increase to 6 shots from 5. If you are a dwarf or have issues carrying 8 more oz than I would look elsewhere. I wouldn't choose either as my primary CCW as there are better options than 44 Spc revolvers.
Not sure what I said to deserve the childish name calling. It is not the weight or overall size of the gun. It is the trigger reach. It is just too long for me to properly hold an N-Frame in-line with the bones of my forearm without shifting my grip in order to get my finger on the trigger properly for an effecient strioke.
Grip http://http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK2/miculek2.html
Trigger Control http://http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK4/miculek4.html
High Altitude
02-23-13, 23:42
I really like the bulldog concept and want one, but every time I actually get my hands on one at a LGS, I can't bring myself to purchasing it. The quality is not there.
Not sure what I said to deserve the childish name calling. It is not the weight or overall size of the gun. It is the trigger reach. It is just too long for me to properly hold an N-Frame in-line with the bones of my forearm without shifting my grip in order to get my finger on the trigger properly for an effecient strioke.
Grip http://http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK2/miculek2.html
Trigger Control http://http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK4/miculek4.html
Holding the weapon is not usually an issue when thinking along CCW lines. Like hizzie said reaching that trigger can be a pain but more important to me is weight. I've been carrying concealed for the last 26 years and how it feels on the belt due to weight is a big deciding factor.
If you only knew how many 686 snubbies I've bought from big eyed rookies in the eighties. They just didn't want to carry em any longer. They bought Walther PPK's
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