View Full Version : World's First Titanium AR....for $100K
http://nemoarms.com/worlds-titanium-ar-308-rifle-by-nemo-arms-100000/
I thought this might be interesting to pass along here on this section of the board.
I will admit that I don't know too much about AR-10 pattern rifles, but are carbine length gas systems on such rifles normal? It looks weird to me.
Reagans Rascals
04-06-12, 23:12
what exactly is the reasoning behind using Titanium for the receivers where 7075-T6 is more than adequate?
Titanium serves no purpose whatsoever in that rifle... if it was made entirely of Inconel 718 or the like then perhaps I would be impressed...
The is no heat or stress imparted on the lower whatsoever, so it being made of anything other than Aluminum is a shitty attempt at marketing...
completely superfluous... simply because they have the capability to machine Titanium, which most if not all AR makers have at this point, dosn't mean they are ahead of the curve with game changing designs.... notice how they still use a Stainless Barrel.... WTF... that's the most important part... who cares if the receivers and rails are made of gold... the barrel is where the new innovations need to come into play
...the NEMO [Ti]ONE is meant to be a demonstration of our engineering and manufacturing superiority.
yeah ok....
they didn't change any components from the Original Stoner design... such as adding ambi-bolt catch/ bolt release... how is simply taking existing CAD designs, writing G-CODE for a new material... and then simply letting the CNC do its thing... in any way shape or form "superior manufacturing"
ZuluDeltaBravo
04-06-12, 23:19
what exactly is the reasoning behind using Titanium for the receivers where 7075-T6 is more than adequate?
Titanium serves no purpose whatsoever in that rifle... if it was made entirely of Inconel 718 or the like then perhaps I would be impressed...
The is no heat or stress imparted on the lower whatsoever, so it being made of anything other than Aluminum is a shitty attempt at marketing...
completely superfluous... simply because they have the capability to machine Titanium, which most if not all AR makers have at this point, dosn't mean they are ahead of the curve with game changing designs.... notice how they still use a Stainless Barrel.... WTF... that's the most important part... who cares if the receivers and rails are made of gold... the barrel is where the new innovations need to come into play
He says in the video that it's just a statement piece and "highly impractical for the end user."
It's essentially $100k shwag. So your assertion that it's a shitty attempt at marketing is correct...It's still kinda cool though (IMO).
8.65 lbs, unloaded with no magazine, optics or sights
Meh.
I presume at 100k it comes with a Lotus to carry it around in?
Reagans Rascals
04-06-12, 23:31
He says in the video that it's just a statement piece and "highly impractical for the end user."
It's not impractical, its pointless... all they did was make an AR-10 in a new material... they in no way imparted any engineering skill whatsoever into it... they made no attempts at new designs, there's no quick change barrel, no ambi bolt catch/ release, nothing revolutionary at all.. I mean literally all they did was run the exact same CNC program.. over top of Titanium
Daniel Defense, Knights, Noveske, any of them could do that exact same thing right now tonight.... I just don't see how that is going to be considered essentially their "shop truck" to show off their capabilities....
if they showed up at SHOT with that expecting a big pat on the back, they would get laughed out of the ****ing building
Its like Bushmaster throwing a piston in their guns and calling it a game changer.. or revolutionary, or an example of their superior manufacturing.. yet they can't stake a ****in gas key
8.65 lbs, unloaded with no magazine, optics or sights
Meh.
I presume at 100k it comes with a Lotus to carry it around in?
I believe it also comes with 2 fake tits, blonde hair, and high heels riding in the passenger seat of that Lotus...
Uh, isn't anyone else aware that titanium is heavier than aluminum?
Since all of the parts on that appear to be at least of common size to their aluminum original version that makes this..... Very stupid. Although, strong as shit, for no obvious reason.
For the record, I didn't like it. I should have mentioned that in my OP.
And yeah, they totally did it because "they could." But does such a weapon even carry a $100K market value truthfully--or did they just pull that number out of their ass?
Reagans Rascals
04-06-12, 23:52
I think if 7075-T6 can survive 16 tons impacting the ground at a high velocity, and the subsequent JP-8 fueled inferno, without melting or fracturing... Titanium is superfluous
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t403/jwmassaro/d3cb7832f45d8c11f50e6a7.jpg
RIP guys... 08/06/2011
But does such a weapon even carry a $100K market value truthfully--or did they just pull that number out of their ass?
It would only be $136,000 if it was made from solid gold.......... and that's if the entire thing was gold... including the barrel and stock
100k....seriously?
And what do you get? An AR.
So stupid.
I wouldnt pay even 1k for that
Here's my biggest gripe... They made a $100K gun and didn't even bother to spray it with some Cerakote. :nono:
Reagans Rascals
04-07-12, 01:20
Here's my biggest gripe... They made a $100K gun and didn't even bother to spray it with some Cerakote. :nono:
spent too much on the Titanium... not enough left over in the budget
I believe it also comes with 2 fake tits, blonde hair, and high heels riding in the passenger seat of that Lotus...
Then where would the gun go?
spent too much on the Titanium... not enough left over in the budget :lol: You're killing me, Smalls!
I would like to know 3 things.
1. Why did they choose to use a stainless barrel? - 2. What does their Titanium charging handle do that the Gunfighter can't? - 3. Lastly, why not just use a standard aluminum lower?
If they fixed those few things and drove the price down to ~$65-70K, I'd be on the hotline with my Credit Card in hand. :sarcastic:
I think if 7075-T6 can survive 16 tons impacting the ground at a high velocity, and the subsequent JP-8 fueled inferno, without melting or fracturing... Titanium is superfluous
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t403/jwmassaro/d3cb7832f45d8c11f50e6a7.jpg
RIP guys... 08/06/2011
It would only be $136,000 if it was made from solid gold.......... and that's if the entire thing was gold... including the barrel and stock
Is that kid taking a piss? :haha:
Ok, on this table is a $100k Ti AR, next to it is a 2012 Porsche Carrera. Pick one to keep.
Ok, on this table is a $100k Ti AR, next to it is a 2012 Porsche Carrera. Pick one to keep.
Porsche. Like why is that even a question? :big_boss:
It's not impractical, its pointless... all they did was make an AR-10 in a new material... they in no way imparted any engineering skill whatsoever into it... they made no attempts at new designs, there's no quick change barrel, no ambi bolt catch/ release, nothing revolutionary at all.. I mean literally all they did was run the exact same CNC program.. over top of Titanium...
That's the trouble with you trigger pullers. You can't recognize that while it may not be immediately practical, it's still cool that it was done.
No, you cannot just run the same CNC program to cut the same part from titanium that you did from aluminum. Speeds, feeds, cutter type, cutter depth, coolant type all change. Other changes may need to be made to the machining process as well. This wasn't done to show off what an awesome AR they can make This was done to showcase their ability to machine precision titanium parts
Did they mention is there was any weight savings?
ForTehNguyen
04-07-12, 08:47
titanium is heavier than aluminum so no
They made this for the same reason car companies make one off oddities for things like the Detroit Auto Show, just to show that they can do something unique and different. It'll get people into their booth to talk to them and finger it. That seems to be the only purpose of it and I'm sure it'll do the job. Is it impractical? Absolutely, and he even acknowledges that right at the start. Stop whining about something you don't like. I don't like your face but I haven't mentioned it before have I?
They included new features...
Didn't anyone catch the finger grooves on the MAGWELL?
Quiet-Matt
04-07-12, 09:50
$100K and you still get a commercial RE and stock. :jester:
Reagans Rascals
04-07-12, 11:31
That's the trouble with you trigger pullers. You can't recognize that while it may not be immediately practical, it's still cool that it was done.
No, you cannot just run the same CNC program to cut the same part from titanium that you did from aluminum. Speeds, feeds, cutter type, cutter depth, coolant type all change. Other changes may need to be made to the machining process as well. This wasn't done to show off what an awesome AR they can make This was done to showcase their ability to machine precision titanium parts
so because they wrote a new G-Code program to machine Titanium, based on the readily available AR-10 CAM files floating around, basically just changing speeds and cutters, that is manufacturing superiority?
bullshit.... they simply altered already written G-Code to cut Titanium and then let the CNC do its thing... that required about a 4 hours worth of labor... then they dumped a block of Titanium on the table and let the CNC do the work... how does that show case anything
like I said before, any AR company out there today could machine a Titanium rifle right now today if I presented them with the money and the order for one...
not to mention I'd rather not purchase anything from a company named after a sociopathic submarine captain or a mentally challenged fish
Is that Eotech backwards?
Reagans Rascals
04-07-12, 11:38
Is that Eotech backwards?
no, the front is just broken off
no, the front is just broken off
That makes sense. It looked backwards.
Hey! Come on. This is a technology demonstrator, not a retail product. If I needed a complex titanium component, this would draw my interest. It's not for sale to shooters. Give it up.
Reagans Rascals
04-07-12, 21:17
Hey! Come on. This is a technology demonstrator, not a retail product. If I needed a complex titanium component, this would draw my interest. It's not for sale to shooters. Give it up.
how is an AR receiver a demonstrator of a complex titanium machined part?
Considering Lockheed pioneered machining Titanium during the very early 60's for use on the SR-71..... I think pretty much any competent machine shop today could machine "complex titanium parts".... 50 years later
If it was a hollow-cored Titanium Compressor blade or something similar maybe then I'd be impressed... this is literally just a block of Titanium machined into a very non-complex shape... so not complex in fact you can make one yourself at home in your garage with a drill press
I'm not knocking it because its pointless and overpriced, I'm knocking it because I honestly can't see how this could be used as a demo product, how can anyone look at that and think "holy shit that took some major know-how, those guys are on top of the ball"
this would be like West Coast Customs showing up to SEMA with a Ford Focus they painted flat black to show off their skill in custom painting ...
pretty much on level with the Red Jacket/PJD Dragon 1919...........
Hey! Come on. This is a technology demonstrator, not a retail product. If I needed a complex titanium component, this would draw my interest. It's not for sale to shooters. Give it up.
Anybody with a CNC machine and some CAD know-how could start a production line of Titanium AR's in their garage. This technology is about as common as a household dictionary. All this is, is a company boasting about their "abilities" to do something that no other manufacturer would be stupid enough to do.
They could have taken that $100k and built 100 quality AR's with some ambi controls. That would've been far more impressive and would've earned them some cash flow.
Titanium is expensive, yes. But I am failing to understand how this rifle is worth 100K, or even cost remotely close to that to make.
I wonder what they billed their time out at.
Titanium doesn't machine the same as aluminum. Nothing fancy, but I have worked with titanium before. What they've done is show they can machine titanium. Not all shops can do it successfully.
It's an attention getter and a successful one. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be talking about it. It may not be as impressive as a hollow core compressor blade, but it doesn't have to be if it brings them more business.
It costing $100,000 is just creative billing and an impressive number that looks good in advertising. Sure it's a bunch of hoopala, but it draws attention and brings in customers cuz making something out of titanium has a high cool factor
Guys, it's a TITAINIUM AR! The cool factor alone makes me want to go to Vegas and show it to hookers. This is going to get me laid for free.
You are all missing out. Buy two. My gratuitous smilie ��.
ETA: appologize in advance mods.
I'd definitely rather have an Audi R8
Guys, it's a TITAINIUM AR! The cool factor alone makes me want to go to Vegas and show it to hookers. This is going to get me laid for free.
You are all missing out. Buy two. My gratuitous smilie ��.
ETA: appologize in advance mods.
See?
Cool
Watch out Spikes Tactical....
Your not the only show in town making uber cool pointless shit now.
what exactly is the reasoning behind using Titanium for the receivers where 7075-T6 is more than adequate?
IT'S TACT-COOOOOOOOOOOOL! Hell is wrong with you? :D
I had a Ti framed 1911, which was more expensive all along the chain of production then your standard 1911 custom build, but not beyond reasonable when you factored in cost of Ti, difficulty of working with it, etc. Would I do it again? Nope.
100k? As you said, factoring in all known costs, difficulties of working with Ti, etc, wouldn't get close to 100K even with a very healthy markup for the novelty of it.
As a metal, I love Ti. Had a Ti framed 1911, Ti watch, Ti ring (GF got it to match the watch), Ti handled knives and so forth.
"Worlds first" never fails to make someone a lot of $$$. Just never occurs to people, many things don't exist, not because it can't be done 'till now, but there was never a reason for it to exist in the first place.
Bacon Six Actual
04-08-12, 12:08
Cocaine is one hell of a drug :lol:
I've worked with titanium for over a decade & know what it costs before & after casting etc..... I can't even begin to put into words how over-priced this is. To get even in the realm of accurately pricing it they would have needed to put in approx 6 months of labor into it.
Reagans Rascals
04-08-12, 14:15
I've worked with titanium for over a decade & know what it costs before & after casting etc..... I can't even begin to put into words how over-priced this is. To get even in the realm of accurately pricing it they would have needed to put in approx 6 months of labor into it.
like I said before...
if the entire 8.65 pounds of it, barrel, bolt, trigger group, stock, that rifles entire being, were made of solid 100% gold... at today's prices... it would only cost $138,000
SicTransit
04-08-12, 14:35
Titanium doesn't machine the same as aluminum. Nothing fancy, but I have worked with titanium before. What they've done is show they can machine titanium. Not all shops can do it successfully.
It's an attention getter and a successful one. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be talking about it. It may not be as impressive as a hollow core compressor blade, but it doesn't have to be if it brings them more business.
It costing $100,000 is just creative billing and an impressive number that looks good in advertising. Sure it's a bunch of hoopala, but it draws attention and brings in customers cuz making something out of titanium has a high cool factor
You shut up with your reasoning and intellect! This thread wants none of it! :lol:
7.62WildBill
04-08-12, 14:36
As soon as I become dictator for life of some small third world hell-hole, I will be placing my order!:big_boss:
SilverTongueDevil
04-08-12, 20:19
I would love to be a dealer for them my target market would be rappers.
I can hear now I got a T thing baby rolling in my 6_for strapped with my T looking to dump some g'ezs no mofos got shit like me... Cuz I gots 2 Tees and they go ratta tat tat and they cost 2hundred G's and the bitches and the wanta be Gs ain't shit because they ain't strapped with T'eez
I'm calling them first thing in the morning and pitching them my sells pitch...
John_Burns
04-08-12, 20:34
I am always amazed when guys get bent out of shape over this kind of thing.
Who cares how much it "should" cost? If you want to own a titanium AR-15 then, at this time, you will need to pony up 100K.
If you (like me) don’t want to own a slightly heavier AR with no other advantages then you will do something different with your 100K.
Why would anyone get bent out of shape when a business offers a product they don’t want or need? Just don’t buy the thing.
If a guy can afford to buy any AR at the 100K price point I would suspect he already has every Porsche or Audi or whatever other car he wants and who am I to say how he spends his money. I love the good old US of A where we can buy what we want and also offer for sale what we want (sort of).
It's just a marketing tool....
The majority of the gun buying public doesn't care about the stuff we do...
I don't know why you guys knock US companies trying to make money selling luxury products to people looking for just that....luxury products
That gun is not a tool, and WE ALL realize its not as useful or meaningfull as let's say a colt. Just like a Ferrari isn't a point A to point B transport device
Ti is a great material for certain applications, but does not really make sense in this case. It is 60% the weight of steel at the same strength, and is very corrosion resistant. Other than that, it is glorified aluminum, and heavier at that. And 100K!?!? Give me a break.
100k?!
i cant' see that possibly being worth over 10k. seriously. from a manufacturing standpoint.
it just isn't THAT much more expensive to clamp a block of TI in a CNC mill than aluminum.
Watch out Spikes Tactical....
Your not the only show in town making uber cool pointless shit now.
Youre really calling the "Zombie" Lower reciever pointless?
Come on man, those make you shoot WAY better.
:sarcastic:
I just wanna know why they decided it was worth $100K.
Bacon Six Actual
04-09-12, 11:07
I just wanna know why they decided it was worth $100K.
Cocaine, that's the only thing I can think of. Seriously.
Companies make stupid stuff. Sometimes to show you can make an existing product out of a different material. Sometimes you sell that product to the public, no matter how stupid it is.
At least these guys say it's not practical when talking about it. If I get signed to an NBA / NFL / Hip Hop contract, I'll be buying one. Watch out, MTV Cribs.
I just wanna know why they decided it was worth $100K.
just occurred to me...
they're probably not set up to produce any. It was a one off. If somebody wants one that badly 100k will pay for all the tooling and fixtures they would need to make it.
so basically they get all the hype without having to make anything more than a prototype...
magpul should do this with their next piece of wonder-vaporware.
what exactly is the reasoning behind using Titanium for the receivers where 7075-T6 is more than adequate?
So they can charge $100,000 dollars, duh! :D
Cocaine, that's the only thing I can think of. Seriously.
No no, I think you mean crack. Cocaine doesn't make you all $100,000 dollars crazy. It would definitely be crack!
Skyugo is probably right- the 100k is to recoup the tooling and setup costs, R&D etc. If this was economy of scale, and they could sell 1000 of these, the price would probably level off at around 3K each (that is all I would pay, assuming I win the lottery and have some extra dough to blow). Feed/speed for Ti is faster than Al, and Ti eats toolbits for breakfast (seriously gummy/gooey metal, relatively speaking). The concept is interesting, but no way in hades is it worth 100k.
Now I'm asking myself who in the hell would buy one, and it came to me.
There is some Arab prince from a petro-dollar republic that drives around in an all silver Audi:
http://www.resonoelusono.com/Imminent/SilverCar15.jpg
Why not throw in a Ti AR? :p
Bacon Six Actual
04-09-12, 21:05
No no, I think you mean crack. Cocaine doesn't make you all $100,000 dollars crazy. It would definitely be crack!
I think it might be both, not only are they bat shit crazy, but apparently they're extremely motivated and dedicated, as has been mentioned Ti isn't exactly easy material to work with, and they did appear to go pretty far out there with the design.
I'll see your crack and raise you cocaine. Crack+cocaine. Ladies and lunatics we have a winner!
There are some parts in an AR that might benefit from the use of Ti (I think a buffer tube of Ti would be great, as the increased rigidity would be an extra insurance policy). But use the material that works best for the stated purpose/lowest cost. A Ti gasblock is just vanity, steel is fine.
Reagans Rascals
04-09-12, 22:44
I read an article in some shit womans mag while sitting in the waiting room at the Drs.... and it was talking about high priced call girls... and they themselves said.. if you put the price high enough... it makes the johns think you are worth it and someone will pay it... makes you seem more respectable..... aka... I give you Nemo Manufacturing... no better than the common $3 Jersey Cunt Rag... but deemed "respectable" by their astronomically inflated pricing....
I'm getting one made out of diamonds. It's like way more expensive than crappy titanium.
Now I'm asking myself who in the hell would buy one, and it came to me.
There is some Arab prince from a petro-dollar republic that drives around in an all silver Audi:
http://www.resonoelusono.com/Imminent/SilverCar15.jpg
Why not throw in a Ti AR? :p
That's pretty cheap, actually. Just a wrap. A few thousand USD would put one on whatever you drive, give or take, if that's your thing. I had my entire car mines doors and hatch wrapped for $1700 USD (370Z), although it is done clear and you can't even see it, I cannot imagine this being much more.
Back to the Ti AR, though...for another $5K, will they stake the castle-nut?
Perhaps the titanium could be used as half the set with one of these being the other:
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg14/scaled.php?server=14&filename=goldar15.jpg&res=landing
Bacon Six Actual
04-10-12, 11:20
Show me the gun of Rambo, and I may be interested. :lol:
Cesiumsponge
04-10-12, 13:13
I work in aero and we manufacture a lot of titanium. It's cool in the sense that it satisfies peoples' mystique with titanium. Titanium is boring and not that difficult to machine compared to many other exotic materials but it has a mystical property and shows up in all sorts of consumer marketing. It reminds me of the proliferation of the TiN titanium nitride coatings being stuck on everything now even though its an inferior coating compared to things used today in aero manufacturing. Another similar marketing ploy is "aircraft grade aluminum".
I think it is silly but whatever. If there is a market, I'd be laughing all the way to the bank. It's not exactly snake oil, just a luxury product for laypeople to brag to other laypeople. If they wanted to impress me, make it out of Stellite or Incoloy. America is all about trying to make a buck and if he can find a market, more power to them. I remember seeing someone selling diamond and ruby encrusted 1911 grips. Someone out there is buying this stuff.
what exactly is the reasoning behind using Titanium for the receivers where 7075-T6 is more than adequate?
Titanium serves no purpose whatsoever in that rifle... if it was made entirely of Inconel 718 or the like then perhaps I would be impressed...
The is no heat or stress imparted on the lower whatsoever, so it being made of anything other than Aluminum is a shitty attempt at marketing...
completely superfluous... simply because they have the capability to machine Titanium, which most if not all AR makers have at this point, dosn't mean they are ahead of the curve with game changing designs.... notice how they still use a Stainless Barrel.... WTF... that's the most important part... who cares if the receivers and rails are made of gold... the barrel is where the new innovations need to come into play
yeah ok....
they didn't change any components from the Original Stoner design... such as adding ambi-bolt catch/ bolt release... how is simply taking existing CAD designs, writing G-CODE for a new material... and then simply letting the CNC do its thing... in any way shape or form "superior manufacturing"
No need to look into it and over analyze it. He already said it wasn't a practical item.
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