View Full Version : Anyone else considering the Ranger 3?
Title says it...for $550, with all inconel, and adding ~4" it's a serious contender in my mind. IMO this fills the (size) gap nicely between the mini4 and m42000.
My upper will be suppressed majority of the time so QD, POI shifts, etc. don't matter to me. And I don't have to worry about spending more money on a muzzle device.
What say you? It's a recent release I think, but does anyone have any hands-on input?
http://www.advanced-armament.com/product.aspx?pid=953
EODcrawler
04-09-12, 16:24
Just finished my SBR and this is my very next purchase. I was stoked to hear about the new Ranger3. I'm in the same position as you. Once I put a suppressor on my weapon, I don't plan on taking it off for some time so QD was never an option for me. And you really can't beat that price.
Eurodriver
04-09-12, 16:38
Have you guys ever used a thread on suppressor before? They loosen up frequently.
If I used one of those, I would probably use Rocksett to prevent it from loosening.
I still prefer a suppressor with a mount.
Have you guys ever used a thread on suppressor before? They loosen up frequently.
I've heard that. Supposedly this one can be torqued on? No idea if that translates into it being more stable? I might give it a whirl just to get a review up here. I'll just add a hot-pad to the range bag :D
ETA: IG good point on the Rocksett
If I used one of those, I would probably use Rocksett to prevent it from loosening.
I still prefer a suppressor with a mount.
Good points.
For dedicated use on a single gun or casual use on multiple guns the lower cost, lighter weight, and shorter length would be good. But, this single gun should probably be for lighter use like an HD gun, shot occasionally but not your primary training rifle. With wrench flats I wouldn't hesitate to Rocksett it on, knowing it would stay put but I could remove it for occasional cleaning.
The length added is 1.8" less than the OAL...I'm assuming this means that I need that much free barrel for mounting?
I am strongly considering getting one for my 6933 and just rocksetting it on there. Hard to beat the performance in a small package that could be found under 500 bucks... I hope.
Between this and an M4-M...
The length added is 1.8" less than the OAL...I'm assuming this means that I need that much free barrel for mounting?
no, "length added" in this case means length added versus a standard A2 hider.
You don't need any 'free' barrel.
any reviews yet? I couldn't find anything. Im interested to see the the r3 vs the mini4.
any reviews yet? I couldn't find anything. Im interested to see the the r3 vs the mini4.
There won't be any reviews yet, as I don't think any have shipped.
It's a thread-on M4-2000, so it [should] be very good.
Hopefully someone in the industry can get a review up soon. Even if they had shipped, we'll still wait 6 months on the NFA til any of us regular guys can get our hands on one :suicide2:
I'm actually considering getting one of these to rocksett onto my DD MK18. The way I see it, it's a $500 flash hider/muzzle break. That 10.3 really "needs" a can anyway, but why waste $800-$1200 for a "consumable" muzzle device when the gun "needs" to be suppressed anyway?
Todd, IG, Jason, you guys see a hole in this argument?
Eurodriver
04-17-12, 16:09
I'm actually considering getting one of these to rocksett onto my DD MK18. The way I see it, it's a $500 flash hider/muzzle break. That 10.3 really "needs" a can anyway, but why waste $800-$1200 for a "consumable" muzzle device when the gun "needs" to be suppressed anyway?
Todd, IG, Jason, you guys see a hole in this argument?
I see a $200 tax stamp hole and long term use on a 10.3" barrel without a muzzle brake to dampen some of the muzzle blast will surely leave a nice big hole in your blast baffles.
I see a $200 tax stamp hole and long term use on a 10.3" barrel without a muzzle brake to dampen some of the muzzle blast will surely leave a nice big hole in your blast baffles.
Fair enough. Couple counter-points:
1) $550 is retail. I can probably get it for $350-$400 with some people I know, so that $500-$550 is tax stamp included.
2) The muzzle blast would be the same on a $550 can as it would be on an $800-$1200 can. I'm well aware of using the brake mount as a sacrificial baffle, but then if/when you shoot without the can, you've got a super-loud gun. It's all inconel construction. How long do you think it would last?
hotrodder636
04-17-12, 17:11
i wasn't considering one until I saw this thread, but I may now change my mind. I was thinking of an M4-2000 or a KAC QD-N4. However recently I had seen the new 5,56 can from SilencerCo and have been interested in it as welll.....decisions, decisions....
I'm actually considering getting one of these to rocksett onto my DD MK18. The way I see it, it's a $500 flash hider/muzzle break. That 10.3 really "needs" a can anyway, but why waste $800-$1200 for a "consumable" muzzle device when the gun "needs" to be suppressed anyway?
Todd, IG, Jason, you guys see a hole in this argument?
It will last a good long time... you know going in that it will wear faster than on a 16" gun.
I think it's a good option.
even if worn way out, it will still cut down the blast considerably.
A QD can with a muzzle brake mount WILL last longer, but how much? no one can tell you.
I've seen M4-2000's run on 10" guns full auto for many thousands of rounds, using just the flash hider mounts. And those arguably cause more baffle wear than a thread mount, since the hiders 'focus' the blast on just three points...
You're going into this with your eyes open, knowing that the can is a wear item. GTG.
i wasn't considering one until I saw this thread, but I may now change my mind. I was thinking of an M4-2000 or a KAC QD-N4. However recently I had seen the new 5,56 can from SilencerCo and have been interested in it as welll.....decisions, decisions....
Honestly, you can't go wrong with any of those. Or with Surefire or OPS... just pull the trigger and enjoy it.
This seems like it might be an interesting option when the stamp for my 6933 comes in.
Reading about it on AAC's website it says "lighter and easier for users to pin and weld”. Is that advisable for anyone to do that? I would imagine for maintenance purposes alone it wouldn't be.
Thx Aaron
This seems like it might be an interesting option when the stamp for my 6933 comes in.
Reading about it on AAC's website it says "lighter and easier for users to pin and weld”. Is that advisable for anyone to do that? I would imagine for maintenance purposes alone it wouldn't be.
Thx Aaron
from what I've heard its a limiting and terrible idea
I'm actually considering getting one of these to rocksett onto my DD MK18. The way I see it, it's a $500 flash hider/muzzle break. That 10.3 really "needs" a can anyway, but why waste $800-$1200 for a "consumable" muzzle device when the gun "needs" to be suppressed anyway?
Todd, IG, Jason, you guys see a hole in this argument?
If you didn't already own an SBR (I'm lusting after a DD Mk18) - could you theoretically buy the SBR & the can from the same FFL dealer and have THEM do the rocksett application- therefor negating the need for the SBR stamp tax? (only then having to pay the stamp tax on the supressor?)
Don't know if that would work... any thoughts? Not trying to skirt the law, just trying to save $200 if the intent was to add a supressor to the rifle anyways (I don't have a need for shooting a 10.5 unsupressed).
If you didn't already own an SBR (I'm lusting after a DD Mk18) - could you theoretically buy the SBR & the can from the same FFL dealer and have THEM do the rocksett application- therefor negating the need for the SBR stamp tax? (only then having to pay the stamp tax on the supressor?)
Don't know if that would work... any thoughts? Not trying to skirt the law, just trying to save $200 if the intent was to add a supressor to the rifle anyways (I don't have a need for shooting a 10.5 unsupressed).
I don't think Rocksett alone would be sufficient for that purpose because (as I understand it) you could break the Rocksett loose with a wrench. I have been told, however, that you can have a suppressor pinned and welded onto an SBR to bring the barrel length out to 16" and negate the need for a stamp for an SBR. (You would still need one for the suppressor though.) In theory it would be like pinning an A2X onto a 14.5" barrel to bring it out to 16". However, don't take my word on this as fact because this is nothing I've ever tried to verify. IMO it makes sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. It's not something I would be interested in doing, but I'm curious to learn the legality of it anyway.
Thanks for the thoughts Steve
I'm fairly certain that Rocksett doesn't count as permanently attached. Also, in the case of the MK18, a 10.3" barrel plus a 4.2" length added silencer only makes up 14.5", not 16", so still an SBR. Now, on a 12.5" you might be on to something, but I still wouldn't pin/weld a silencer. Rocksett is just to prevent a thread-on can from loosening. The advantage the Ranger 3 offers over other thread-on silencers is the wrench flats allowing you to use something like Rocksett to prevent it's unthreading during fire, but still allowing the ability to remove it for maintenance, etc.
I have a shop in my garage where I can (and have) built uppers from scratch. I'd leave the can on 99% of the time ,but if I needed to swap it out, it would only take me a few minutes max to unscrew the can and screw on the flashhider.
deadlyfire
04-19-12, 13:29
I'm definitely considering the RANGER3 for a set and forget muzzle device!
Steve- Thanks for your thoughts.
Ash- thanks for catching the math error. Asleep at the keyboard on that one.
Looks like if I went Ranger 3 I'd still have to go SBR... oh well. Thought it might save $200, but at the price points that this all adds up to, oh well. What's another $200. :D
I'm fairly certain that Rocksett doesn't count as permanently attached. Also, in the case of the MK18, a 10.3" barrel plus a 4.2" length added silencer only makes up 14.5", not 16", so still an SBR.......
I don't think Rocksett alone would be sufficient for that purpose because (as I understand it) you could break the Rocksett loose with a wrench.......
Anyone using one of these yet?
Interested in hearing some details.
Anyone using one of these yet?
Interested in hearing some details.
They are STILL not out.
Well that is great. I figured they would be released by now. I guess that's why I can't pull any images or anything anywhere for it.
Well that is great. I figured they would be released by now. I guess that's why I can't pull any images or anything anywhere for it.
When AAC sold to freedom group, I'm sure they didn't see this coming either.
For what it's worth, I was looking at a Ranger3 for a dedicated AR can... Decided to pony up instead and do a Surefire 556Socom. I think over my lifetime of 556 usage I'd rather a great can than a more limited solution that is basically a 5year old or so design.
The Ranger3 when released will probably be the best buy under $450 anywhere however.
It just wasn't worth waiting for, for me.
I have been eyeballing the surefires for a while now. I was just trying to find out if anyone had hands on with the ranger 3. In the end, I'll probably get one of the socom556 suppressors. Maybe pick up the ranger3 later on in life(when available) for another AR.
Having shot a bunch of these and almost getting a RANGER as my first can...
I can without a doubt say I'd get the AAC Mini4 if I were getting a can for a gas gun today.
No fukking way I'd ever get a thread on can for a gas gun... simpley for weapon maintenance issues.
What is the difference? What maintenance are you doing that requires the can to be removed?
I have a thread mounted can on my 10.5" SBR and see zero need to remove it for general cleaning or maintenance. It has also not come lose at all after several months of use.
Cameron
Jbarchitect
12-06-12, 09:35
I love my Ranger2. It’s small and works great on my 7”. Shooting without earplugs is no problem.
I keep a hot pad handy to tighten it frequently but I like the fact I can take it off for cleaning or for it to run cleaner or just to make some noise.
I clean my barrels... some more often than others...
But I wouldn't want to push solvent into the can. And I wouldn't want a bore patch to snag a baffle and get stuck in the can.
You can remove the can... but I'm nutty about doing that too often.
I love my Ranger2. It’s small and works great on my 7”. Shooting without earplugs is no problem.
Not hearing safe. Definite hearing damage. Not recommended.
I was looking at using the ranger3 on my 11.5 barrel with a 11 inch rail. The ranger is suppose to have extended wrench flats that extended out and I was thinking it would give it enough room to fit with desired set up.
Swamp Yankee
12-07-12, 07:03
Hmmmm,
Well in my state we have to have a pinned and welded muzzle on our rifles unless we have a ridiculously expensive pre-ban era lower.
I am trying to decide on what can to go with right now and this thread has intrigued me. What about a 12.5" Kino upper with a Ranger 3 pinned and welded onto it as a dedicated suppressed gun? I know it may not be ideal for most shooters, but for me and my local laws, this seems like a viable option.
Hmmmm,
Well in my state we have to have a pinned and welded muzzle on our rifles unless we have a ridiculously expensive pre-ban era lower.
I am trying to decide on what can to go with right now and this thread has intrigued me. What about a 12.5" Kino upper with a Ranger 3 pinned and welded onto it as a dedicated suppressed gun? I know it may not be ideal for most shooters, but for me and my local laws, this seems like a viable option.
If the ranger3 was available, and you wanted an all irons gun, that would be an AWESOME setup. If you are going with an optic, skip the kino.
Swamp Yankee
12-07-12, 13:35
All my guns are currently irons only. I enjoy shooting with them. In the future, when I get an Aimpoint I would still keep the irons to co-witness
What maintenance requirements would be necessary with a can like the Ranger 3?
Remember that a suppressor is a very effective flash suppressor.
I have a 10.7" barrel or so with a Ranger 2 welded to it. In the future the ONLY upper I would do like this is an MRP. You have to service the gas system somehow.
Make sure to use a cut down barrel so you can have a small gas port. The can adds about 5.4" to the barrel.
All my guns are currently irons only. I enjoy shooting with them. In the future, when I get an Aimpoint I would still keep the irons to co-witness
What maintenance requirements would be necessary with a can like the Ranger 3?
The barrel must be maintained like any other, meaning the chamber and extension must be cleaned periodically. The can does not require maintenance.
Swamp Yankee
12-07-12, 15:20
Remember that a suppressor is a very effective flash suppressor.
I have a 10.7" barrel or so with a Ranger 2 welded to it. In the future the ONLY upper I would do like this is an MRP. You have to service the gas system somehow.
Make sure to use a cut down barrel so you can have a small gas port. The can adds about 5.4" to the barrel.
Wouldn't using a BCM Kino Upper still allow me to service the gas system if necessary?
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-12-5-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-m4-12%20kd.htm
My ideal build would be:
-AAC Ranger 3
-BCM Kino 12.5" Upper Assembly
-Centurion C4 Midlength FSP Rail
Unfamiliar with how the Centurion attaches but it may. I use all tube forends and forget about the two piece rails.
From earlier in the thread, it doesn't seem like that good of an idea to pin and weld one. YMMV, but doesn't seem like something I would want to do.
Magic_Salad0892
12-07-12, 19:15
Screw on suppressors are retarded. Regardless of weapon. Except pistols.
Screw on suppressors are retarded. Regardless of weapon. Except pistols.
They definitely have their place on some ARs. If I could not have an SBR, I would consider a pinned 556 can and a small gas port. But to be honest since money is an issue for me, I'd just most likely get a 14.5" pinned and a QD can. Or a 16" and have the crown, rail, sight all serviceable.
The ranger3 would be a really good option for some people if it existed.
Can you elaborate a little bit more on this please? Just curious as why you say it.
Aaron
Screw on suppressors are retarded. Regardless of weapon. Except pistols.
Magic_Salad0892
12-08-12, 07:47
Can you elaborate a little bit more on this please? Just curious as why you say it.
Aaron
Because pinning a suppressor to a barrel isn't really viewed as a smart thing to do, because now the can, nor the gas system can be serviced. And you cannot remove the rail system, or gas block. (And I think you might not even be able to remove the barrel if it's on a URX, or DD rail, but I can't confirm that.)
If you don't pin it, you have nothing to use as a sacraficial blast baffle. (muzzle brake.)
They will wear prematurely, and they will work themselves loose. Rockset isn't even something you should have to use to get a suppressor to stay.
Also... zero shift isn't consistent/repeatable. (From what I know.)
Magic_Salad0892
12-08-12, 07:48
They definitely have their place on some ARs. If I could not have an SBR, I would consider a pinned 556 can and a small gas port. But to be honest since money is an issue for me, I'd just most likely get a 14.5" pinned and a QD can. Or a 16" and have the crown, rail, sight all serviceable.
The ranger3 would be a really good option for some people if it existed.
If I could not have an SBR, I'd just run an AR pistol, with an 11.5'' barrel.
Fair enough, I appreciate your input. I wasn't planning on pinning it in my case, but I was also not thinking about having a sacraficial blast baffle either. How fast can this prematurely wear it out, has there been any actually test done? I am about to google the shit out of this. If you have any related info would you mind sharing?
Thx Aaron
Because pinning a suppressor to a barrel isn't really viewed as a smart thing to do, because now the can, nor the gas system can be serviced. And you cannot remove the rail system, or gas block. (And I think you might not even be able to remove the barrel if it's on a URX, or DD rail, but I can't confirm that.)
If you don't pin it, you have nothing to use as a sacraficial blast baffle. (muzzle brake.)
They will wear prematurely, and they will work themselves loose. Rockset isn't even something you should have to use to get a suppressor to stay.
Also... zero shift isn't consistent/repeatable. (From what I know.)
Magic_Salad0892
12-08-12, 21:34
Fair enough, I appreciate your input. I wasn't planning on pinning it in my case, but I was also not thinking about having a sacraficial blast baffle either. How fast can this prematurely wear it out, has there been any actually test done? I am about to google the shit out of this. If you have any related info would you mind sharing?
Thx Aaron
I recall at one point seeing picture with a suppressor with 5k or so rounds, where the first baffle was almost completely eroded, the edges looked all choppy, and it had holes, and shit in it. The user said that sound suppression was still the same, but I'm not sure where it would go from there. It cannot be good for the suppressor.
It was on this site I found that on actually. Grant, KevinB, or Iraqguns are very knowledgable about suppressors. It coulda been on one of their posts.
I hope it helps. :)
I at one point was interested in thread on cans, and a friend bought a Gemtech for a bolt gun (.223), and used it on an AR. Damn thing worked itself off all the time. He relegated it for bolt gun purposes only, and it actually sounds pretty decent. No loosening or anything. From what I know.
Cool thx for the info, I'm going to see what I can find out it. Not saying I am buying a thread on can but would just like to know now.
Thx again
Aaron
My wife has been running a 16" BCM lightweight with a rocksetted Ranger 2 in 3-gun since August. The can has not come loose in that time. A friend's 16" 'government' profile with Surefire FA556-212 was significantly more muzzle heavy. My wife's rifle handles more like my 5.56 AK-74 clone in comparison- still fast and not muzzle heavy.
Something not often realized is that any quick attach can is going to have +/-4oz above its advertized weight to account for the brake or flash hider. The Surefire FA556-212 is 20oz with mount. The Ranger 2 is 15.5oz- 4.5oz lighter than the Surefire can for the same performance and comparable durability. It is also quieter than the Mini4, and about an oz lighter, overall.
My plan is to remove the can quarterly for detailed cleaning, unless the rifle gets used in the rain/mud, and simply omit patching the bore until that time.
The Ranger 3 will be quieter than the Ranger 2, will have wrench flats which allow the can to be torqued on with a normal wrench instead of a strap wrench and will allow it to be torqued on tighter (which may eliminate the need for Rocksett entirely- will have to see), will have an all-inconel baffle stack, and will be around 5.5oz lighter than the Surefire FA556-212.
4-5oz on the end of the barrel is very noticeable. The combination with lightweight barrel is almost 9oz less weight on the muzzle end of the rifle compared to the Surefire on a 'government' profile- over half a pound.
Thanks for chiming in. As mentioned earlier about the sacraficial baffle not being there, have you seen any erosion or anything on the first baffle? Or have you not removed it yet?
My wife has been running a 16" BCM lightweight with a rocksetted Ranger 2 in 3-gun since August. The can has not come loose in that time. A friend's 16" 'government' profile with Surefire FA556-212 was significantly more muzzle heavy. My wife's rifle handles more like my 5.56 AK-74 clone in comparison- still fast and not muzzle heavy.
Something not often realized is that any quick attach can is going to have +/-4oz above its advertized weight to account for the brake or flash hider. The Surefire FA556-212 is 20oz with mount. The Ranger 2 is 15.5oz- 4.5oz lighter than the Surefire can for the same performance and comparable durability. It is also quieter than the Mini4, and about an oz lighter, overall.
My plan is to remove the can quarterly for detailed cleaning, unless the rifle gets used in the rain/mud, and simply omit patching the bore until that time.
The Ranger 3 will be quieter than the Ranger 2, will have wrench flats which allow the can to be torqued on with a normal wrench instead of a strap wrench and will allow it to be torqued on tighter (which may eliminate the need for Rocksett entirely- will have to see), will have an all-inconel baffle stack, and will be around 5.5oz lighter than the Surefire FA556-212.
4-5oz on the end of the barrel is very noticeable. The combination with lightweight barrel is almost 9oz less weight on the muzzle end of the rifle compared to the Surefire on a 'government' profile- over half a pound.
Something not often realized is that any quick attach can is going to have +/-4oz above its advertized weight to account for the brake or flash hider.
Do you actually have numbers of flash hider weights? Because I was pretty sure they were way closer to 2oz than 5oz.
Magic_Salad0892
12-09-12, 13:46
Do you actually have numbers of flash hider weights? Because I was pretty sure they were way closer to 2oz than 5oz.
http://www.advanced-armament.com/BLACKOUT-18T-Flash-Hider_p_446.html
4.35 oz.
A2 FH, or KAC A2QD mount is about 2 oz. or so.
If I could not have an SBR, I'd just run an AR pistol, with an 11.5'' barrel.
Meh. I'd go 16" with reflex can
Do you actually have numbers of flash hider weights? Because I was pretty sure they were way closer to 2oz than 5oz.
A2 is light. Some of the other stuff is quite heavy.
I don't expect to see much erosion in the can on a 16" barrel until my wife is upwards of 15,000 rounds. I'm thinking a total life of 50,000 rounds might not be unreasonable, acknowledging that the can will lose some performance along the way.
My understanding is that erosion becomes accelerated with shorter barrel lengths, with 12" and shorter barrels seeing significantly more baffle erosion for the same round count compared with 14.5" and longer barrels. If I planned to mount a can on a sub 14.5" barrel, I'd probably consider a quick attach can with brake mount to help extend the life of the can, since it's the part you have to wait 6 months and invest the equivalent cost of a new firearm to replace.
IIRC, there is a post over at silencertalk about the KAC 5.56 can where the owner of Knights mentioned that the .mil was end-of-service-life retiring cans due to decreased performance. When Knights examined them, they determined it was not because the baffles were worn, but because the cans had filled up with fouling. It makes me want to figure out a way to clean a sealed rifle can. ;)
ETA: I haven't removed it in a while. The last time I removed it was after firing only a few hundred rounds. It looked same as new at that point. I'll check it after we hit about 5000 rounds, which won't be a for a couple months, unfortunately, as funds are tightening up and we're seeing more use out of the .22s and dryfire.
hotrodder636
12-10-12, 06:13
I don't expect to see much erosion in the can on a 16" barrel until my wife is upwards of 15,000 rounds. I'm thinking a total life of 50,000 rounds might not be unreasonable, acknowledging that the can will lose some performance along the way.
My understanding is that erosion becomes accelerated with shorter barrel lengths, with 12" and shorter barrels seeing significantly more baffle erosion for the same round count compared with 14.5" and longer barrels. If I planned to mount a can on a sub 14.5" barrel, I'd probably consider a quick attach can with brake mount to help extend the life of the can, since it's the part you have to wait 6 months and invest the equivalent cost of a new firearm to replace.
IIRC, there is a post over at silencertalk about the KAC 5.56 can where the owner of Knights mentioned that the .mil was end-of-service-life retiring cans due to decreased performance. When Knights examined them, they determined it was not because the baffles were worn, but because the cans had filled up with fouling. It makes me want to figure out a way to clean a sealed rifle can. ;)
ETA: I haven't removed it in a while. The last time I removed it was after firing only a few hundred rounds. It looked same as new at that point. I'll check it after we hit about 5000 rounds, which won't be a for a couple months, unfortunately, as funds are tightening up and we're seeing more use out of the .22s and dryfire.
Would dropping the can in an ultrasonic cleaner remove internal debris and fowling? I would think with some solvent and the UT, that the can would come out pretty clean?
Would dropping the can in an ultrasonic cleaner remove internal debris and fowling? I would think with some solvent and the UT, that the can would come out pretty clean?
The cheapo commercial units are pretty useless.
hotrodder636
12-10-12, 07:37
The cheapo commercial units are pretty useless.
Okay, but if you are serious about your investments in a can(s) wouldn't it be worth the coin to get a professional grade UT unit? Furthermore, wouldn't it be useful for cleaning BCGs, pistol barrels, used brass?
Okay, but if you are serious about your investments in a can(s) wouldn't it be worth the coin to get a professional grade UT unit? Furthermore, wouldn't it be useful for cleaning BCGs, pistol barrels, used brass?
Not for me. Believe me... If I thought it'd work good for those applications, I'd have one!
My chinese US cleaner splotched the finish on my Colt BCG... No biggie... but I wouldn't put another BCG in that thing.
Brass was WAY TOO much work. The SS media tumbler was much better for me.
I only bust out the US cleaner for mounts/comps every once in a while... And it works great on the outside of dirty gas tubes.
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