View Full Version : Remanufactured Ammo
What does remanufactured ammo mean?
Is it safe to use for plinking?
Remanufactured means the ammo is once fired hence reloads. If the company that made the ammo has a good rep it should be fine. But be warned there are several companies that make mistakes. If you do not know where the ammo came from be careful when shooting it.
superswamper
08-30-06, 21:13
You can also reload your own ammo
Black Hills remanufactured....top notch.
Georgia Arms remanufactured....decent plinking ammo.
Maine Cartridge.........run, run away.
ONLY REMAN I use is Black Hills only I love there Blue Box 77gr and 75
Hell I like them all!
Dont buy ULTRAMAX for your Nice M4
Back in the day to keep it cheap I would buy M193 or Q3131 by Winchester
you can buy surplus M193 Like IMG
I found the IMG to be pretty good stuff and it shoots just like the Q3131
Use caution when buying remanufactured ammo. In my experience remanufactured ammo blows up *a lot* more firearms than new factory ammo.
I had a .45 remanufactured round from Houston Cartridge Company blow up a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special 1911. And spent the better part of a year getting Houston Cartridge Company to take responsiblity for their double charged round.
Last year I went through 6,000 rounds of Georgia Arms Canned heat in .223. Good ammo, so I thought...... Earlier this week I received an email showing pics of a destroyed AR15 (upper receiver excessively bulged, bottom of magazine blown out the bottom, etc) caused by the G.A. Canned Heat .223. From the pics my guess would be that the round was double charged. This was the 3rd or 4th kaboom I had seen using the G.A. Canned Heat .223 in the last couple months.
Generally I stay away from remanufactured ammo. The ONLY exception now being the Black Hills Blue Box (remanufactured ammo).
The few dollars you save by using remanufactured ammo will NOT replace your firearm if the remanufactured ammo blows up your gun.
I am with USMC03, I have spent too much money on my Black Rifles to blow it up saving a $1.00 a box on cheep manufactured ammo. It just ain't worth it to me. I have been using XM193 from Lake City for the last four years with years with no problems what so ever. It is not the cheapest but I have the security knowing that I am feeding my rifles one of the best cheep ammo that can be had.
I hadn't heard about the Kabooms with GA canned heat 5.56mm.....good to know, thanks!
Robb Jensen
08-31-06, 14:12
A few weeks ago I fixed a RRA rifle that had catastrophic case failure. It blew out the side of the case upon extraction. Luckily only the magazine, bolt, cam pin, and firing pin was the only damage.
Voodoochild
08-31-06, 14:15
I still have about 1000 rounds of canned heat left. I bought it about 4 months ago I also hear that HSM is GTG they have a pretty good rep and will make you any kind of load you can think of. I know there was a group buy of this stuff on that other site. http://thehuntingshack.com/
I hadn't heard about the Kabooms with GA canned heat 5.56mm.....good to know, thanks!
I never heard of ANY problems with Georgia Arms remanufactured .223 (heard of a few problems with their reman .308 and pistol cailbers...no kabooms, just potential problems due to the brass that was use, bullets seated too far back, etc, etc.) until the last few months.
When I place a large group order of .223 Canned Heat back in late 2004, I asked the gal about any problems. She told me that they had never had one of their rounds blow up a rifle (I take this with a grain of salt because Ultramax and Maine Cartridge Company will tell you the same thing). She went onto state that they have a $1 million insurance policy and that if anything did go wrong with one of their remanufactured round they would replace / repair the firearm and any damage caused to the shooter.
I have not heard any further info as to how Georgia Arms has treated the customers that have had the Canned Heat ammo blow up their guns. Hopefully Georgia Arms is taking steps to correct the problem and will make things right with the shooters that have damaged guns due to their ammo.
Yet another reason to stay with quality American made new manufactured ammo.
USMC03 - can you share any of the links/pics on canned heat kabooms?
I was just looking at that ammo recently.
Thanks in advance.
I don't have links. 2 of them were emails that I have since erased.
Sorry
I have 850 rounds of Wolf left from my inital ammo buy when I purchased my new AR.
After the 850 rounds of Wolf is gone I will be on the Lake City train and I ain't getting off.
Pat_Rogers
08-31-06, 14:48
Knightstar- the "X" in XM means that the particular lot was rejeceted. A while back it could have been for cosmetic reasons- lately it seems like there are many other varied and serious issues for rejection, showing a lack of QC.
We had issues with a lot of XM193. We sent it back to the factory. It tested out at 62kpsi. That is like firing an almost proof load everytime you press the trigger.
Any time you shoot anything with an "X" you are rolling the dice. You have had good luck (as have i in the past), but i an very cynical when it comes to guns and ammunition.
I sell BH ammo as a service to students attending my classes, so i am biased.
However, i sell it because it is the best i have seen.
USMC03 - can you share any of the links/pics on canned heat kabooms?
I was just looking at that ammo recently.
Thanks in advance.
DON'T buy that crap...
Mace
This is very surprising to hear about Canned Heat. I have shot at least seven or eight cases of it in the past twenty-four months with absolutely no issues. My only problem with it was the price hikes considering it is remanufactured. I stopped buying it because of this. I was willing the pay slightly more for new ammo.
It was a great deal when it was relatively cheap.
Knightstar- the "X" in XM means that the particular lot was rejeceted. A while back it could have been for cosmetic reasons- lately it seems like there are many other varied and serious issues for rejection, showing a lack of QC.
We had issues with a lot of XM193. We sent it back to the factory. It tested out at 62kpsi. That is like firing an almost proof load everytime you press the trigger.
Any time you shoot anything with an "X" you are rolling the dice. You have had good luck (as have i in the past), but i an very cynical when it comes to guns and ammunition.
I sell BH ammo as a service to students attending my classes, so i am biased.
However, i sell it because it is the best i have seen.
This is the only XM193 I will buy I stay away from anything packed in a loose carton. I have been through over 5000 rounds with only one round being not seated deep enough. I would love to shoot only Black Hills ammo but as much as I shoot it is not cost effective to do so. Just giving my recommendations from a load I use with good results.
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/7089/xm193ao2.png (http://imageshack.us)
Pat_Rogers
08-31-06, 19:12
Knightstar- the ammo in question came from an identical box- different lot number- not loose.
Shoot what you wish- i am only relating what i personally observed from an agency that purchased 10k rounds of the stuff.
Understand about cost. However, all ammo will increase appx 40% shortly, and the damage to a gun from bad ammo or worse, and injury to you ot another makes it false economy.
Knightstar- the ammo in question came from an identical box- different lot number- not loose.
Shoot what you wish- i am only relating what i personally observed from an agency that purchased 10k rounds of the stuff.
Understand about cost. However, all ammo will increase appx 40% shortly, and the damage to a gun from bad ammo or worse, and injury to you ot another makes it false economy.
Thanks, I will take it under advisement.
At the last Colt Armorer course the instructor (not Ken) was actually telling us Maine Cartridge Company sells the best ammo around and it's the only genuine M885 sold to the public. He even got a bit defensive when several students mentioned ammo purchased by their department was so bad it couldn't be used. I'm hoping he was just confused and was talking about some other ammo company but he seemed pretty specific about it.
Pat_Rogers
09-01-06, 06:43
At the last Colt Armorer course the instructor (not Ken) was actually telling us Maine Cartridge Company sells the best ammo around and it's the only genuine M885 sold to the public. He even got a bit defensive when several students mentioned ammo purchased by their department was so bad it couldn't be used. I'm hoping he was just confused and was talking about some other ammo company but he seemed pretty specific about it.
That is a pretty interesting statement, and i would be interested in seeing the facts behind this.
Does he mean that MCC is manufacturing M855 for the military, and this is rejected ammunition (that is, XM855)? Or that MCC purchased XM855 from Federal?
We have seen a bunch of problems with MCC ammunition, and in my Picture Book of Horrors along with broken bushamster bolts are some of MCC problems.
...all ammo will increase appx 40% shortly,...
Pat,
Please advise what is driving this if you can. Thanks.
Pat_Rogers
09-01-06, 12:57
I have been reliably told by those involved that it has to do with a shortage of raw materials, and the fact that the capacity for manufacturing metallic cartridges is at the saturation point.
I have been reliably told by those involved that it has to do with a shortage of raw materials, and the fact that the capacity for manufacturing metallic cartridges is at the saturation point.
Our agency just ordered 77,000 rounds of various types of Federal ammunition. Some backordered. When I spoke directly with the factory I was told that their sales (non-military) are up 191% for the year.
Mike
That is a pretty interesting statement, and i would be interested in seeing the facts behind this.
Does he mean that MCC is manufacturing M855 for the military, and this is rejected ammunition (that is, XM855)? Or that MCC purchased XM855 from Federal?
I'm not sure. He was also mentioning true M855 has really shiny brass and I seem to remember all M855 for the most part being unpolished. After the great debate, I think most of us just took it as his opinion and decided we would just stick with the ammo our department uses or that we know first hand works. Like any class, you take with it what works and discard the rest.
Pat_Rogers
09-01-06, 14:46
Thanks for the additional. You are correct. Every class is an opportunity to take something back with you- positive or negative.
"Highly polished"......?
Knightstar- the "X" in XM means that the particular lot was rejeceted. A while back it could have been for cosmetic reasons- lately it seems like there are many other varied and serious issues for rejection, showing a lack of QC.
We had issues with a lot of XM193. We sent it back to the factory. It tested out at 62kpsi. That is like firing an almost proof load everytime you press the trigger.
Any time you shoot anything with an "X" you are rolling the dice. You have had good luck (as have i in the past), but i an very cynical when it comes to guns and ammunition.
I sell BH ammo as a service to students attending my classes, so i am biased.
However, i sell it because it is the best i have seen.
I like BH as well
Black Hills Blue box is outstanding for the accuracy and price
My LMT M4 loves the 77gr the best as far as accuracy and the MK262 aint to bad for a hot ass round
at Midway you can get 50rds of 75gr Match HP for 19.99 wich is a steal
when its in
I have some XM193 left I bought 4 years ago! I didnt think much of it and spent my cash on Win Q3131
I always liked my Q3131 better and have used it for many years .
to bad its hard to FIND
Knightstar- the "X" in XM means that the particular lot was rejeceted. A while back it could have been for cosmetic reasons- lately it seems like there are many other varied and serious issues for rejection, showing a lack of QC.
We had issues with a lot of XM193. We sent it back to the factory. It tested out at 62kpsi. That is like firing an almost proof load everytime you press the trigger.
Any time you shoot anything with an "X" you are rolling the dice. You have had good luck (as have i in the past), but i an very cynical when it comes to guns and ammunition.
I sell BH ammo as a service to students attending my classes, so i am biased.
However, i sell it because it is the best i have seen.
I was just wondering, can you tell if your lot of XM193 is hot or not just by a chrono test?
What fps out of a 16" barrel is too hot?
Thanks!
BetaMO
I like BH as well
Black Hills Blue box is outstanding for the accuracy and price
My LMT M4 loves the 77gr the best as far as accuracy and the MK262 aint to bad for a hot ass round
at Midway you can get 50rds of 75gr Match HP for 19.99 wich is a steal
when its in
I have some XM193 left I bought 4 years ago! I didnt think much of it and spent my cash on Win Q3131
I always liked my Q3131 better and have used it for many years .
to bad its hard to FIND
I heard Black Hills is raising their price up 30%, so stock up now when you can!
I have been reliably told by those involved that it has to do with a shortage of raw materials, and the fact that the capacity for manufacturing metallic cartridges is at the saturation point.
Ditto, you will see 30-40% at least increase in cost, soon... :(
I'm starting to pick up my brass now more carefully...every round counts!
Earlier this week I received an email showing pics of a destroyed AR15 (upper receiver excessively bulged, bottom of magazine blown out the bottom, etc) caused by the G.A. Canned Heat .223. From the pics my guess would be that the round was double charged. This was the 3rd or 4th kaboom I had seen using the G.A. Canned Heat .223 in the last couple months.
I highly doubt the Georgia Arms CH .223 was double charged. The powder they use would not allow a double charge. Even compressing the bullet it would only be slightly above safe SAAMI specs for commercial .223.
I suspect case-head separation, or under charging would be a much more likely culprit than too-much powder.
I have not seen or heard of any KB's attributed to GA's canned heat .223, yours is the first account of any I have come across. I have shot 5,000 rounds without issue. The ejected brass has been clean, shown no signs of overpressure and the rounds are fairly accurate. No cratered primers, no bulges, nothing. Deviation and spread has been on par with my best plinking loads. I've also talked at good length with the folks at GA about their operation and materials (being a reloader myself).
It's not like factory rounds haven't killed guns, either. I know of many guys (including myself) who have blown up a weapon with reputable factory ammo. Remington 230gr. ball ammo blew one of my 1911's away, and I recently had a bad batch of WWB 9mm with a squib round and some severely under charged rounds. Winchester replaced it, but it could have been a bad deal had I been shooting them F/A.
I have not seen or heard of any KB's attributed to GA's canned heat .223
I have PICTURES of (2) instances and was THERE when they happened.
Mace
Submariner
09-19-06, 14:54
What Pat said is beginning to happen. I don't know if this is any indication of how severe their price hike is going to be or not, but Midway has raised their prices about $5 a box and $40 per thousand ($304.99).
www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?tabid=3&categoryid=7519&categorystring=653***690***
ETA: It is out of stock, no back orders, and they changed the price.
...and here I was having a good day. Oh well, back to priming .45 cases.
Just finished another 500rnds of the XM193. Man I love this ammo.
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/6900/xm193wo9.png (http://imageshack.us)
I have PICTURES of (2) instances and was THERE when they happened.
Mace
Interesting. I know Dinger uses canned heat in all the training classes he takes and loves the stuff.
C4
Patrick Aherne
09-20-06, 20:42
Grant.
I was there and witnessed the kaboom with Canned Heat. I let the individual borrow my rifle to finish the class.
I will not use GA Arms Canned Heat in my rifles.
Grant.
I was there and witnessed the kaboom with Canned Heat. I let the individual borrow my rifle to finish the class.
I will not use GA Arms Canned Heat in my rifles.
+1...
And now Georgia Arms is BS'ing and CYA'ing in order not to take responsibility and replace that mans carbine. Full report coming SOON...
Mace
All I can say is I am glad I bought a lot of reloading components.
Grant.
I was there and witnessed the kaboom with Canned Heat. I let the individual borrow my rifle to finish the class.
I will not use GA Arms Canned Heat in my rifles.
Thanks.
C4
Here's a picture of BH 55 gr FMJ remanufactured and BH 60 gr SP new:
http://home.centurytel.net/betamo/BH_223.jpg
Which would you prefer to shoot in your AR, and why?
Here's a picture of BH 55 gr FMJ remanufactured and BH 60 gr SP new:
http://home.centurytel.net/betamo/BH_223.jpg
Which would you prefer to shoot in your AR, and why?
For a 1/7 twist weapon, blue box 77gr. Don't need shiny brass (which is what your paying for with the red box).
C4
Submariner
09-22-06, 11:01
For a 1/7 twist weapon, blue box 77gr. Don't need shiny brass (which is what your paying for with the red box).
C4
Isn't Blue Box "remanufactured" meaning reloaded using once-fired brass while Red Box is manufactured using virgin brass? The Red Box cartridges also appear to have sealed primers while those in the Blue Box do not.
In answer to the question, the soft point rounds might get their tips deformed during the feed cycle as they are stripped from the mag and make their way into the chamber. At worst, there might be a FTF; at best, loss of accuracy.
If you gave them to me for free, I would shoot them both. :D
I pick the 55 gr remanufactured because they use military brass and have the primers crimped in which is kinda hard to tell, the 55 gr FMJ also have a cannelure which is not present on the 60 grain soft points, not visible in pic - sorry.
My remanufactured ammo from Black Hills always looks shiney as new, they've done a great job on the stuff I have bought.
I have some Federal XM193 that has some black stuff on some cases, anybody know what it might be?:
http://home.centurytel.net/betamo/Ammo.jpg
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