View Full Version : Mag couplers a no go?
My question is with all the setups I see on this website I'm suprised I don't see many people using mag couplers. I'm curious why most don't use them. Is there reliability issues with the extra weight pulling down with gravity that cause mag related failures? A few years ago the redi mod was real popular but there were obvious issues with that setup for the fact it always stayed on the weapon. With a double mag coupler atleast you can just ditch that setup and run your single mags. I also realize there might be an issue with trying to store the overall width of the coupled mags in pouches. However the use I had planned on running was only one coupled mag in the gun then the rest of my mags being single mags in my pouches. If anyone is running this setup please let me know how you like it. Also if anyone sees problems with this setup please share.
For the use you described, it seems like the Surefire 60rnd magazine would be slimmer & more optimal (wouldn't require a reload). If you are worried about redundancy the redi-mod/redi-mag is still a good option & I don't know if it matters that it's always on the gun. It doesn't way that much unless there is a mag seated in it.
I saw an episode of Tactical Arms or Tactical Impact where LAV was talking about his carbine that he used in operation just cause & he had a replica of it. He had used cardboard as a spacer and 100mph tape to couple two mags together like your suggesting.
I have a mag coupler that I have used many times and through multiple classes. It has held up great, and I've never had a single malfunction with the mags that are coupled together. The weight hasn't seemed to be an issue at all, and it makes reloads QUICK!
Here is a short video of me shooting a drill with one. You can see the reload at about 1:20.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo_Mr5UKRlM&context=C4c1c666ADvjVQa1PpcFNJ96pwwlnXp5edsjP_Z_SksKaqzpt-Vbs=
I don't use it all the time, but everytime I have it has run flawlessly with close to 1,000 rounds through the coupled mags.
Blankwaffe
04-13-12, 14:46
In my opinion mag couplers just add weight/bulk to the gun,of which I try to keep as simple and light as possible.
It also has the mag not in use open to environmentals exposing ammunition and magazine internals to debris etc..
I can withdrawn a mag from my chest rig or belt as fast as I can fumble with a coupled mag setup.
So I have no use for such.
I tried one briefly on my training/gaming gun and had the second mag's bullets walk forward a couple times. This prevented a smooth reload. I ditched the coupler after that.
YMMV
Wormydog1724
04-13-12, 18:51
I've noticed people with mag couplers drop them on a reload. They hit their mag release and both mags drop to the ground. Making a conscious effort to grab the mag before you hit the mag release is something I feel is an unnecessary step that could waste time and when not using a mag coupler, get you killed. The SureFire 60 rounds, Nordic Components 18 round pmag extension, or redimod seem like better a way to get more rounds down range. Also, I have seen rounds walk forward with mag couplers also. Not for me.
I use a Springer Precision PMAG coupler. Works well for my needs. Grab the gun from the trunk, slide a third mag in my back pocket and I'm good to go. Traffic stop gone bad I've got 60 rounds ready. I bought mine before the sure fire mags were available.
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
It's great to have a variety of feedback from folks who've actually used them. Thanks for providing your thoughts, guys.
Depends on your usage. If you are spending days in the field with your rifle, a coupled magazine is exposed to the elements, increasing opportunities to introduce debris and moisture where you don't want it. I wouldn't want a coupled magazine in a sandy environment. As said before, rounds can also walk forward (preventing a reload).
On the other hand, I could see a place for a coupled magazine with a rifle that spends more time in a vehicle or for home defense purposes. Competition is another obvious application (depending on rules).
NO-GO because of FOD (foreign objects and debris) and the rounds walking forward. If for some reason you really feel like you need more than 30 rounds in / on the gun, then the Redi-Mag or a SF 60 (though I trust this less) are better options...although I would argue that for a tactical application, for the vast majority of shooters and purposes, that more than 30 on the gun is silliness.
Great feedback guys, I really appreciate some of the advice given. The rounds walking forward is something I never really thought about. The debris issue due to exposure did cross my min but I quickly shut that down due to my true need is a home defense or vehicle weapon, but you never know what could happen. However the 60 round surefire sounds like another great option. My concern was always what if something happens and all I can really do is grab my rifle. What if I didn't have the time to put on my battle belt or plate carrier or even enough time to try and grab a few extra mags. Lets face is if something went bump in the night my boxers I wear do bed don't really have the ability for load carriage lol. I might just have to give the surefire 60 a try, anyone used them? reliable?
operator81
04-13-12, 19:20
I'm issued a mag coupler on my duty gun (required to use it) and I hate it. I don't find the reloads to be that much faster and if you have to dump the mag in the gun to clear a malfunction you've now lost your spare. A Redi-mag IMO is a better option if you want to have a spare mag attached to the rifle.
Failure2Stop
04-13-12, 19:27
The question of coupled magazines comes up every now and then.
I almost linked to an old thread on the topic, but given it's age and dated information I decided against it, and will just sum up my thoughts.
Way back when I was a young enlisted Marine, taping two mags together with a spacer was considered pretty good to go, and those that could make their own that wouldn't interfere with proper operation of the weapon were sought after for their knowledge. The idea that one would patrol with the 60 round contraption for counter-ambush/immediate enagement and then transition to single 30s for the protracted fight.
As time went on and we started shooting more and exposing the setup to real world conditions under real world stress we started seeing issues, many of which have already been touched on by others:
Top round walking forward, causing a hang-up in the reload.
Stoppages due to vegetation/dust/dirt/sand making it's way into the exposed magazine.
Catching the exposed magazine on gear/vegetation/lines, causing damage to or loss of the exposed magazine.
Rounds popping out of the exposed magazine during dynamic movement (read as: slamming into the prone, falling down, and generally getting busted up)
I stopped using coupled magazines years ago and have never looked back. I do see their application and appreciation in gun games, and it seems like some of the new options work well in that environment, but I do not like them for "real world" stuff.
If I needed to keep two mags on my gun, I would use a Redi-Mod.
And that's exactly what I do with my HD gun: 2 20 rounders, one in the gun, one in the Redi-Mod. It works for me in that application.
I overlooked home defense honestly. So no, it's not silliness in that application and does make sense. I keep a belt right next to my AR (which takes no longer to put on than slinging a rifle does...plus it's got a secondary on it...win/win) so it's not important for me. But I see the point if you disagree with using a belt and just want to grab a rifle.
Voodoo_Man
04-13-12, 20:25
I do the Somali mag conversion, duck tape one mag on the end of the other, so it looks like you have one giant mag. Sometimes ill tape four or five together.
Wormydog1724
04-13-12, 20:33
If I needed to keep two mags on my gun, I would use a Redi-Mod.
And that's exactly what I do with my HD gun: 2 20 rounders, one in the gun, one in the Redi-Mod. It works for me in that application.
Off topic and I am curious, why 20 rounders and not 30?
I do the Somali mag conversion, duck tape one mag on the end of the other, so it looks like you have one giant mag. Sometimes ill tape four or five together.
Why not? Worked great for this guy.
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6083/i6flg0.jpg
Man am I thankful to read this. Our options by rule are stock mag pouch or coupler. I switched from stock pouch few weeks ago to coupler after practice.
I do have a chest rig to take with me but I like having at least one reload on the rifle.
Have not had opportunity to run through a solid course to wring out the details with the coupler.
What are your thoughts on stock mag pouch? My biggest complaint was it was in the way during left/right transitions (I am right handed) and I could not fully collapse stock when I wanted to put rifle in certain carry case.
I've been coupling magazines for over 10 years in competition.
Fortunatly i've never had the rounds move forward on the second magazine and cause issues.
That being said, since i'm not running patrols or worried about ambush, I don't use coupled magazines as a normal course of shooting. Only competition.
I also don't have some of the other "potential" issues that have been brought up in this thread.
I've never done myself, nor seen others accidentally drop both mags and reach for a pouched mag. If that were an issue, it would also be an issue for people with redi-mags. Not the dropping them so much, but the failure to use the avalible magazine on the gun and then fumbling the re-load because there's a magazine in the way of where your hand would be during a normal re-load. If that were an issue, it would clearly sway me in the direction of coupled magazines over a redi-mag. But, since it is NOT an issue, either or works fine depending on personal preference.
Also, since I train to always pull the empty magazine from the rifle every single time, that possible issue goes right out the window as well.
Coupled mags have their place I suppose. For me it's when I play.
Animal_Mother556
04-13-12, 22:45
Sometimes ill tape four or five together.
Wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwow....
To the OP, I prefer a redi-mag to a coupler
Wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwow....
To the OP, I prefer a redi-mag to a coupler
I'm pretty sure he was joking :P
I do the Somali mag conversion, duck tape one mag on the end of the other, so it looks like you have one giant mag. Sometimes ill tape four or five together.
lol <3
Failure2Stop
04-14-12, 01:49
Off topic and I am curious, why 20 rounders and not 30?
Lighter, lower profile.
20 rounds on tap is more than likely sufficient for anything inside my home, and if it isn't I have another 20 ready to go or in case the magazine pukes I have another to stuff in.
And I don't plan on needing to magazine monopod inside the house.
And I don't plan on needing to magazine monopod inside the house.
Maybe because it's getting late here, but that struck me as funnier than heck.
Wormydog1724
04-14-12, 07:50
I've been coupling magazines for over 10 years in competition.
Fortunatly i've never had the rounds move forward on the second magazine and cause issues.
That being said, since i'm not running patrols or worried about ambush, I don't use coupled magazines as a normal course of shooting. Only competition.
I also don't have some of the other "potential" issues that have been brought up in this thread.
I've never done myself, nor seen others accidentally drop both mags and reach for a pouched mag. If that were an issue, it would also be an issue for people with redi-mags. Not the dropping them so much, but the failure to use the avalible magazine on the gun and then fumbling the re-load because there's a magazine in the way of where your hand would be during a normal re-load. If that were an issue, it would clearly sway me in the direction of coupled magazines over a redi-mag. But, since it is NOT an issue, either or works fine depending on personal preference.
Also, since I train to always pull the empty magazine from the rifle every single time, that possible issue goes right out the window as well.
Coupled mags have their place I suppose. For me it's when I play.
Because you've never seen it happen or done it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Shooting competition for 10 years. I've been shooting comps for 3. I've seen it happen. To new shooters and guys who have been shooting a lot longer than me. I don't use them. I'm glad you do and have success with them.
RogerinTPA
04-14-12, 08:05
Redi-Mod on all 4 of my guns.
Wormydog1724
04-14-12, 08:33
Lighter, lower profile.
20 rounds on tap is more than likely sufficient for anything inside my home, and if it isn't I have another 20 ready to go or in case the magazine pukes I have another to stuff in.
And I don't plan on needing to magazine monopod inside the house.
That makes sense
I personally only have one set of mags coupled, and they are intended for in the middle of the night if someone were to break in, I do not have all the gear on, so no mag pouches. I grab the coupled mags and have 60rds for any incoming thread.
In my opinion mag couplers just add weight/bulk to the gun,of which I try to keep as simple and light as possible.
It also has the mag not in use open to environmentals exposing ammunition and magazine internals to debris etc..
I can withdrawn a mag from my chest rig or belt as fast as I can fumble with a coupled mag setup.
So I have no use for such.
This if you carry your AR all day long, 20 rounders are popular to save weight when you carry all day;
I use a Springer Precision PMAG coupler. Works well for my needs. Grab the gun from the trunk, slide a third mag in my back pocket and I'm good to go. Traffic stop gone bad I've got 60 rounds ready. I bought mine before the sure fire mags were available.
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
and this if you don't.
tfltackdriver
04-14-12, 19:12
Delete
I personally only have one set of mags coupled, and they are intended for in the middle of the night if someone were to break in, I do not have all the gear on, so no mag pouches. I grab the coupled mags and have 60rds for any incoming thread.
This ^^. Out of the 30+ mags that I have, I only have one coupler, and I use it exclusively for home defense bump in the night situations. It's nice to have two mags on hand without having to try carry a spare somewhere in my underwear.
And I've used it in enough classes with 100% reliability to trust it completely for home defense.
Alaskapopo
04-14-12, 22:31
My question is with all the setups I see on this website I'm suprised I don't see many people using mag couplers. I'm curious why most don't use them. Is there reliability issues with the extra weight pulling down with gravity that cause mag related failures? A few years ago the redi mod was real popular but there were obvious issues with that setup for the fact it always stayed on the weapon. With a double mag coupler atleast you can just ditch that setup and run your single mags. I also realize there might be an issue with trying to store the overall width of the coupled mags in pouches. However the use I had planned on running was only one coupled mag in the gun then the rest of my mags being single mags in my pouches. If anyone is running this setup please let me know how you like it. Also if anyone sees problems with this setup please share.
I like Firebirds P mag coupler because it replaced the base plates and does not allow the mags to shift and its a great mono pod. They have been 100% reliable for me over the last few years at work and in competition. I like them for work because as cops we don't have any extra room to be carrying a lot of rifle mags. Generally whats on or in the gun is what you get in a hot call.
Pat
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Magazines/30203030.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Magazines/sideview.jpg
Alaskapopo
04-14-12, 22:35
Because you've never seen it happen or done it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Shooting competition for 10 years. I've been shooting comps for 3. I've seen it happen. To new shooters and guys who have been shooting a lot longer than me. I don't use them. I'm glad you do and have success with them.
I have been shooting three gun for about 6 years now and with the P mags coupled I have had no issue. I know there are problems with Gi mags coupled. As for dropping your mags that is a training issue not an equipment one. Coupled mags are a great tool if you use them correctly. Hey as long as your shooting in my division I am glad you don't use equipment that would give you an advantage.
Pat
Failure2Stop
04-14-12, 23:12
I know there are problems with Gi mags coupled.
I think that's a good point.
I have not seen coupled PMags demonstrate the same issues (as far as pure shooting is concerned) as I have seen with GI mags, however, I have not seen nearly as many couples PMags as I have seen GI mags.
I have heard corresponding experience with the PMag coupler that Alaskapopo is using (Firebird and Springer).
ETA- I think Robb did a write up on the Springer a while ago.
ETA 2- Correction: looks like the Firebird is made by Springer.
I still don't think I would use one in open environment combat, but for competition and HD use, if they work, they work.
Wormydog1724
04-14-12, 23:16
I have been shooting three gun for about 6 years now and with the P mags coupled I have had no issue. I know there are problems with Gi mags coupled. As for dropping your mags that is a training issue not an equipment one. Coupled mags are a great tool if you use them correctly. Hey as long as your shooting in my division I am glad you don't use equipment that would give you an advantage.
Pat
I now use the Surefire 60 or Nordic components 18 round extension. When there is a required mag change, most of the time they require it come from the belt so coupled mags are no good in that respect. But this is only my experience and I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert and have only been shooting competitively for 3 years. I'm still a youngun with lots to learn.
Alaskapopo
04-15-12, 01:01
I now use the Surefire 60 or Nordic components 18 round extension. When there is a required mag change, most of the time they require it come from the belt so coupled mags are no good in that respect. But this is only my experience and I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert and have only been shooting competitively for 3 years. I'm still a youngun with lots to learn.
The Surefire mag is a good tool but I don't trust it for real life its too finicky on bullet lengths and weights. I do use it for three gun and it runs well if you feed it ammo it likes. I only use my Surefire mag with FMJ or light JHP bullets. It does not like 77 grain bullets. I also have a 48 round Nordic extension that I use as well. But it too will not function with longer match bullets. I have had it cause a hang up where the mag and the extension meet. I run the couplers on long stages where I need my 77 grain loads. I also have a coupled Pmag 20 30 for certain low ports. Also I run at least 1 spare 30 round P mag on my belt as an oh shit mag. That is in case my main magazine system fails.
As for mandatory reloads in USPSA they can not specify where they reload must come from and that is where these coupled mags can really shine. I can do a 1.8 second reload with coupled mags and a BAD lever. If your local match requires you to reload from the belt they must be following thier own rules not USPSA or IMGA. Basically there is no one size fits all solution to magazines. I use lots of different types in matches depending on what gives me the best advantage on the stage.
Pat
Like F2S, I use the 20 rd mags in my HD rifle...
Voodoo_Man
04-15-12, 13:52
just for giggles, definitely not practical...
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j341/shevon_vspec/2012/041512_ar15/_MG_09.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j341/shevon_vspec/2012/041512_ar15/_MG_04.jpg
Because you've never seen it happen or done it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Shooting competition for 10 years. I've been shooting comps for 3. I've seen it happen. To new shooters and guys who have been shooting a lot longer than me. I don't use them. I'm glad you do and have success with them.
You're lucky that your competition is lazy.
Wormydog1724
04-15-12, 17:27
You're lucky that your competition is lazy.
Lol ok.
johnpuga1982
04-15-12, 18:10
Here is a short video of me shooting a drill with one. You can see the reload at about 1:20.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo_Mr5UKRlM&context=C4c1c666ADvjVQa1PpcFNJ96pwwlnXp5edsjP_Z_SksKaqzpt-Vbs=
Off topic, but how you liking the Go Pro?
Off topic, but how you liking the Go Pro?
I really like it. It's the Hero2 version and the footage seems to turn out good. It's been fun filming shooting footage and it's nice cause i can go back and critique myself and see what we need to improve on
johnpuga1982
04-15-12, 18:48
It never crossed my mind to use it while shooting. I'm gonna have to pick one up.
Well, the CAA coupler failed fast. After some training and carry in padded case it cracked after few weeks of car trunk storage. It was mounted on 30 round P-Mags. Co worker had same result.
We are stuck with the mag pouch on M4 stock or putting spare in pocket. Neither high-choice options.
Giving Magpul and Safariland couplers a try. Anyone have experience with either of those?
Unknown if you can use PMAGS in Safariland. Will make a call to them tommorrow.
We both have go-bag and chest rigs. We still wanted to have ammo on board in case we have rifle only.
Thanks.
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