View Full Version : Member Survey: What 1.x-Y variable optic do you use?
This is not a "I use optic A from B company" thread. We have enough of those. One-liners need not apply. If you don't have time upon initial reading to type out your full thoughts, come back to it later. Pictures and videos welcome.
Be thorough, be specific (make, model, power range), link to the product if it still exists. State what you use it for (LE patrol, 3-gun, military operations, plinking, training, etc.) and your role.
Include what other optics, including RDS, you have used and if possible compare to your 1.x-Y optic. Speed up close, precision at distance, etc. and if you have numbers to quantify the difference post that, if not be clear that it's "feel". BE SPECIFIC.
Also include any impressions, even "feelings".
I realize there are other threads along these lines, but if there are no objections I think it would be great to have a repository to compare notes. If this thread works out well we can direct inquisitions relative to this topic to this thread to help answer people's questions.
Please feel free to ask questions of the posters but keep them civil. At the same time, if questioned please assume the poster is asking a legitimate question from a genuine standpoint not as an indictment. If you're only posting a question as a veiled attack or indictment, keep it to yourself.
Optic: Swarovski Z6i, 1-6 illuminated, BRT reticle.
http://www.swarovskioptik.us/en_us/products/57
Right up front I'll offer that I haven't used any other variable optics. I've looked through them on other peoples' rifles, but not used them enough to provide a comparison.
That said I haven't been more pleased with a major purchase. The clarity is astounding. The illuminated dot is more than bright enough for the sunniest of days. I have found the mil tree style reticle very easy to use at 200, 300, and 400 yards. I'm not a school trained sniper or anything so I have no other reticles to unlearn.
It has capped turrets which some people don't care for. I am still learning how to shoot long distance but so far I like using holds better than dialing in for a shot.
I would use it on duty if I was allowed. If the reserves ever ship me overseas I will take it with me and attempt to use it on whatever rifle they provide. Otherwise it is used in classes and local steel matches. I do not believe it slows me down much but have yet to measure that in any way.
The zoom is smooth and easy with the cat tail that came with the scope. I notice no real fish eye effect at 1x. There may be slight parallax but it's only perceptible if I'm looking for it. I find I only really use 1x and 6x no matter what distance I'm shooting.
A feature I like is the illumination switch. It has a day setting and a night setting. You select the brightness levels you want and it saves them. If its bright out I push the button to the right. If its dark I push it left. Very quick and easy. I don't have to run through a dial with a bunch of settings or look for a number to get the one I want.
Also, if the batteries die or I somehow don't have time to turn on the illumination, the crosshairs are visible enough to use. The Short Dots I've seen have crosshairs that are almost invisible at 1x.
I use the ADM recon x mount. The whole thing feels very light. Other optics I do have and use are the T-1, EOTech 512, and Aimpoint PRO (on this same rifle before getting the Z6i).
Again, I can't compare it to others in its class but my purchase is reinforced when others who have competitor brands are immediately impressed. I like it enough that when I buy a .308 AR I will be ordering another Z6i for it.
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/photo-1.jpg
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/photo-3.jpg
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/P1010092.jpg
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Zeroing.jpg
*photo courtesy of Kyle Defoor
Burris XTR 1-4X, although now I think I'd like more magnification, maybe in the 3-9 range, just for the target ID at distance. Beyond prior hunting scopes this is the first magnified optic that I have run on an AR platform. I got it for a Recce build that I did, wanting a flexible optic in the 100-500 meter range. I was intrigued by the horseshoe illuminated reticule for close in use, which it is capable of but not near as fast as any of the micro Aimpoints floating around the house. I like the holdovers in the reticule, it is fast to shoot at distance targets. I think that if Burris changed the turrets and made the reticule FFP I'd like it more. I am gathering items for a bolt gun now and am leaning toward the new Bushnell FFP with the Horus reticule.
http://www.burrisoptics.com/xtrtactical1.html
Optic: Swarovski Z6i, 1-6 illuminated, BRT reticle.
http://www.swarovskioptik.us/en_us/products/57
Right up front I'll offer that I haven't used any other variable optics. I've looked through them on other peoples' rifles, but not used them enough to provide a comparison.
That said I haven't been more pleased with a major purchase. The clarity is astounding. The illuminated dot is more than bright enough for the sunniest of days. I have found the mil tree style reticle very easy to use at 200, 300, and 400 yards. I'm not a school trained sniper or anything so I have no other reticles to unlearn.
It has capped turrets which some people don't care for. I am still learning how to shoot long distance but so far I like using holds better than dialing in for a shot.
I would use it on duty if I was allowed. If the reserves ever ship me overseas I will take it with me and attempt to use it on whatever rifle they provide. Otherwise it is used in classes and local steel matches. I do not believe it slows me down much but have yet to measure that in any way.
The zoom is smooth and easy with the cat tail that came with the scope. I notice no real fish eye effect at 1x. There may be slight parallax but it's only perceptible if I'm looking for it. I find I only really use 1x and 6x no matter what distance I'm shooting.
A feature I like is the illumination switch. It has a day setting and a night setting. You select the brightness levels you want and it saves them. If its bright out I push the button to the right. If its dark I push it left. Very quick and easy. I don't have to run through a dial with a bunch of settings or look for a number to get the one I want.
Also, if the batteries die or I somehow don't have time to turn on the illumination, the crosshairs are visible enough to use. The Short Dots I've seen have crosshairs that are almost invisible at 1x.
I use the ADM recon x mount. The whole thing feels very light. Other optics I do have and use are the T-1, EOTech 512, and Aimpoint PRO (on this same rifle before getting the Z6i).
Again, I can't compare it to others in its class but my purchase is reinforced when others who have competitor brands are immediately impressed. I like it enough that when I buy a .308 AR I will be ordering another Z6i for it.
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/photo-1.jpg
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/photo-3.jpg
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/P1010092.jpg
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Zeroing.jpg
*photo courtesy of Kyle Defoor
That is one fine camo job.. Just saying... Ron
Optic: Swarovski Z6i, 1-6 illuminated, BRT reticle.
http://www.swarovskioptik.us/en_us/products/57
Right up front I'll offer that I haven't used any other variable optics. I've looked through them on other peoples' rifles, but not used them enough to provide a comparison.
That said I haven't been more pleased with a major purchase. The clarity is astounding. The illuminated dot is more than bright enough for the sunniest of days. I have found the mil tree style reticle very easy to use at 200, 300, and 400 yards. I'm not a school trained sniper or anything so I have no other reticles to unlearn.
It has capped turrets which some people don't care for. I am still learning how to shoot long distance but so far I like using holds better than dialing in for a shot.
I would use it on duty if I was allowed. If the reserves ever ship me overseas I will take it with me and attempt to use it on whatever rifle they provide. Otherwise it is used in classes and local steel matches. I do not believe it slows me down much but have yet to measure that in any way.
The zoom is smooth and easy with the cat tail that came with the scope. I notice no real fish eye effect at 1x. There may be slight parallax but it's only perceptible if I'm looking for it. I find I only really use 1x and 6x no matter what distance I'm shooting.
A feature I like is the illumination switch. It has a day setting and a night setting. You select the brightness levels you want and it saves them. If its bright out I push the button to the right. If its dark I push it left. Very quick and easy. I don't have to run through a dial with a bunch of settings or look for a number to get the one I want.
Also, if the batteries die or I somehow don't have time to turn on the illumination, the crosshairs are visible enough to use. The Short Dots I've seen have crosshairs that are almost invisible at 1x.
I use the ADM recon x mount. The whole thing feels very light. Other optics I do have and use are the T-1, EOTech 512, and Aimpoint PRO (on this same rifle before getting the Z6i).
Again, I can't compare it to others in its class but my purchase is reinforced when others who have competitor brands are immediately impressed. I like it enough that when I buy a .308 AR I will be ordering another Z6i for it.
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/photo-1.jpg
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/photo-3.jpg
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/P1010092.jpg
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Zeroing.jpg
*photo courtesy of Kyle Defoor
That is one fine camo job.. Just saying... Ron
I have a Trijicon TR21 accupoint scope in a Larue SPR/M4 EER mount that I purchased about 2 ½ years ago. My scope is a 1.25– 4x with the amber tipped post reticle. Like El Cid I have not used a large number of variable optics other than on hunting rifles. My only other AR optic is an Aimpoint M3 so take my opinions accordingly.
I bought this setup with the idea of using it for 3 gun matches, playing around and some limited coyote hunting. So far so good.
I’ve found the Trijicon optics quite clear but with some fish eye effect. The fish eye is more prominent at the low end and I barely notice it at the top end. While at first I found it somewhat distracting the more I shoot it the less I notice it. The click adjustments seem to be pretty positive and accurate. One other thing that took a little getting used to was the post reticle. I once had a Japanese made scope with a post reticle when I was a teenager but that was a long time ago. That said I find the more I use it the more I like the post. Sighted in with the tip of the triangle for distance I can shoot fast up close just using the entire triangle much in the same way I use the red dot in my Aimpoint. I will say I find the Aimpoint easier up close and personal but not sure why. I fine holdover a little tougher with this reticle over say, a standard crosshair. Tougher but still doable. The Larue mount works fine and I’ve been happy with it. It seems rugged enough and holds zero well.
Overall I've been satisfied with my choice. Perhaps if I were doing it over I would go for a scope with a true 1x bottom end. I’ve wondered if that would help on the 10-50 yard rapid shots. Maybe, maybe not. Hope that makes sense and is helpful.
Leupold Mk4 1.5x5 w/ illuminated special purpose recticle.
Leupolds' website info: http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-mrt-riflescopes/mark-4-1-5-5x20mm-mrt-m2-illum-reticle/
Mounted on Noveske 14.5" Afghan VIS in a LaRue LT-104-30 Mount.
http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz229/Scoby/IMG_1256.jpg
One of the reasons I choose this optic was my previous 30 years experience with Leupold optics. VX-IIs and specifically VX-IIIs 3.5x10s. They have been great as hunting optics. My current deer rifle, a Rem 700 classic in .308, using my handloads has not had to be adjusted for zero in 5 years straight.
This particular optic does have it drawbacks however.
The illumination is just not that great. Okay in low light but, in full sunlight you can forget it. However, the circle dot / crosshair is easy to pick up in close quarters. Not as fast as the Aimpoint M4s and H1 IMO in close. Not just because of the optic but the rig it is mounted on. It weigh in a 10.75 lbs. I would choose one of my other ARs for strickly close quarters. This Noveske is for longer range out to 400yds and works really well.
The BDC works well but the dial stops should be more pronounced. You have to pay really close attention when dialing in. It is more of a slight hump you go over than a click.
Otherwise it is a great optic. Very clear glass. Returns to zero every time on the BDC and holds it zero.
For the money, compaired to Nightforce, S&B, etc...it is a great option.
Leupold Mk4 1.5x5 w/ illuminated special purpose recticle.
Leupolds' website info: http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-mrt-riflescopes/mark-4-1-5-5x20mm-mrt-m2-illum-reticle/
Mounted on Noveske 14.5" Afghan VIS in a LaRue LT-104-30 Mount.
http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz229/Scoby/IMG_1256.jpg
One of the reasons I choose this optic was my previous 30 years experience with Leupold optics. VX-IIs and specifically VX-IIIs 3.5x10s. They have been great as hunting optics. My current deer rifle, a Rem 700 classic in .308, using my handloads has not had to be adjusted for zero in 5 years straight.
This particular optic does have it drawbacks however.
The illumination is just not that great. Okay in low light but, in full sunlight you can forget it. However, the circle dot / crosshair is easy to pick up in close quarters. Not as fast as the Aimpoint M4s and H1 IMO in close. Not just because of the optic but the rig it is mounted on. It weigh in a 10.75 lbs. I would choose one of my other ARs for strickly close quarters. This Noveske is for longer range out to 400yds and works really well.
The BDC works well but the dial stops should be more pronounced. You have to pay really close attention when dialing in. It is more of a slight hump you go over than a click.
Otherwise it is a great optic. Very clear glass. Returns to zero every time on the BDC and holds it zero.
For the money, compaired to Nightforce, S&B, etc...it is a great option.
I would argue that it's better than S&B/Swarovski for the money...
I have been using 1.5-5X20 Mark 4 MR/T (SPR) for about six years. Scoby hit all of the pro's and con's. The reticule is BDC'd for 62 grain and works beautifully.
I would argue that it's better than S&B/Swarovski for the money...
I can't argue that. The Mk4 series carry alot of bang for the buck.
Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x24 with amber triangle. I use it for IPSC rifle (there are no 3 gun in Norway). I have looked through pretty much every 1 to something scope available here and for the money I think this is the best one, it's obviously not as good as those costing twice as much. But not far behind ether.
http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product2.php?id=AccuPoint&mid=1-4x24
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/slemmo/3283bca6.jpg
Canonshooter
04-16-12, 10:30
SWFA SS 1-4x24 (http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48372.aspx) in a LaRue LT-139 (http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-spr-e-lt-139) mount.
This package was used on a "RECCE" style rifle that was intended for IDPA carbine matches and precision shooting. Note - I no longer have this upper.
Thoughts on scope;
1. I liked the First Focal Plane Illuminated Donut (Circle/Mil-Scale) reticle. It worked well on 1X for up-close shots and at 4X provided good precision. The mil/mil reticle/turret adjustments are really easy to use.
2. For the longer range precision I intended for this upper, greater than 4X magnification would be benefical.
3. Overall build quality of the scope is excellent.
4. The power ring is stiff, especially in cold weather. IMO, the cat tail offered by SWFA is a must. Even with the cat tail, there is considerable resistance to turning.
5. Optical clarity is very good, noticeably better than the Bushnell 1.25-4x24 Elite (http://swfa.com/Bushnell-125-4x24-Elite-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P48249.aspx) I tried before it.
Note on the Bushnell 1.25-4x24 Elite - I found it on Amazon for $319. For a "$300 scope" I had no complaints.
6. Illumination is bright enough to see in all but the brightest outdoor conditions. However, I never used the illumination as the reticle was sharp and easy to see.
7. Like most scopes, it has an adjustable ocular (eyepiece).
8. The "eye box" was more generous/forgiving than the Bushnell's.
9. Scope weight is listed as 17.5 ounces (without mount), middle-of-the-road for this class of scope. Mount will add another 7 to 8 ounces to the package. If you decide to go the 1-4 route, be aware of the weight you'll be adding.
Final Thoughts
This is probably the best 1-4X "tactical" scope available in this price range. Great reticle, easy to use mil/mil reticle/adjustments, nice optics, sturdy build and great CS from SWFA. IMO you really cannot go wrong with this scope. Unlike the lower priced Bushnell I tried before it, I never felt as though I had "settled for something less" with the SWFA. I had read an opinion that you would have to spend at least 50% more to do better - I think that is an accurate assessment.
If you have a few hundred more in the budget, the new 1-6 version looks even better.
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/recce-2.jpg
http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/recce-1.jpg
Alaskapopo
04-16-12, 19:30
This is not a "I use optic A from B company" thread. We have enough of those. One-liners need not apply. If you don't have time upon initial reading to type out your full thoughts, come back to it later. Pictures and videos welcome.
Be thorough, be specific (make, model, power range), link to the product if it still exists. State what you use it for (LE patrol, 3-gun, military operations, plinking, training, etc.) and your role.
Include what other optics, including RDS, you have used and if possible compare to your 1.x-Y optic. Speed up close, precision at distance, etc. and if you have numbers to quantify the difference post that, if not be clear that it's "feel". BE SPECIFIC.
Also include any impressions, even "feelings".
I realize there are other threads along these lines, but if there are no objections I think it would be great to have a repository to compare notes. If this thread works out well we can direct inquisitions relative to this topic to this thread to help answer people's questions.
Please feel free to ask questions of the posters but keep them civil. At the same time, if questioned please assume the poster is asking a legitimate question from a genuine standpoint not as an indictment. If you're only posting a question as a veiled attack or indictment, keep it to yourself.
I run a Swarovski Z6i BRT on my three gun rifle . I also run a TR24G on my SCAR. I have used ACOGS, Aimpoints, Eotechs etc. The Swarovski is in my opinion the best in its class. Its clear, has a good usuable reticle and its simple. The field of view is awsome. I can shoot it as fast on 1x as a red dot from a stationary position. If I am moving and shooting I find my off set Aimpoint R1 a bit faster for me. I just got done confirming my dope out to 400 yards while getting ready for a major match. I was very happy. I could easily hit 6 inch autopoppers from MGM at 330 yards. A 12 inch circle at 400 yards (hanging steel) was boringly easy. The clarity in this scope is just great. As for magnification I have used all the setting at matches at one time or another with 1x, 3x and 6x being the most common. It depends on the range and size of the targets.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20Auto%20rifles/ThreegunRogueHunter.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20Auto%20rifles/SCARwithTR24.jpg
Pat
Vortex Viper PST in a Bobro Extended Mount on my 3 Gun rifle. Have found this scope to to be excellent for my use - also bang for buck is outstanding.
Glass is incredibly clear with no fisheye effect. When dialed to 1x power, the eyebox on this scope is huge - very unpicky as to where you have your head, I notice barely any difference between using this and a red dot. The reticle is very easy to pick up for close in speed work; not that it bothers me as I use it without the illumination unless it is a very dull day, but the one thing that could be improved is the illum could do with being a little brighter.
Shooting at range, again the reticle really shines - the stadia lines work very well when working out your holds. I shoot out to 400 on occasion with this, and at 8" plates at 200-250 regularly. Given the turrets are also adjustable, you have the option of also using them to dial. Personally for me on a 3 gun rifle, I'd sooner use the holds and to be honest, the exposed adjustable turrets are a bit of a liability when dumping your rifle in barrels, pulling it out of your bag etc - one time the windage turret shifted 2 MOA when I was pulling it out of my bag just going into a long range stage, which messed me up. Lesson learned - I have now gotten the turrets taped up so they can't move. If it had been available when I bought the PST, I'd much sooner have gone with the HS, which is the same scope but with capped turrets making it a better choice for 3 gun (and practical/tactical) shootings knocks and bumps (and its also cheaper).
Comparison - I can compare this to a Trijicon TR24 I had. For me, the PSTs reticle works better....especially at range. I also feel the glass on the PST is *slightly* superior to the Trijicon - on that at 1x, I could detect slight fisheye at the edges where on the PST there is none as far as I can see.
In summary, a very nice robust and clear scope for not a lot a lot of money - although for practical type shooters, now that it is available, I'd advocate the one with the capped turrets (as I understand it, I think they are now doing away with the HS name, and it is now called a PST (capped), which is probably more fitting and avoids confusion.
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/Kwanger/P1030893.jpg
Failure2Stop
04-24-12, 11:31
I picked up one of the first runs of the SWFA 1-4 "T" reticle with capped turrets. It was returned a few months after purchase due to illumination issues. SWFA replaced the entire optic with the latest generation, and I have had no issues since.
The positives have already been covered above, so I won't rehash them.
Other low power variables I have used for significant amount of time:
S&B Short Dot (early generation)
Millett DMS
Swarovski Z6i BRT
Premier Reticles 1.1-8X
I have played with numerous other low-powered varibales, but not enough to gauge their durability or for more than a few rounds under only one or two different conditions.
The only currently available optics that threaten the SWFA on my primary rifle are the Z6i and the ShortDot. Z6i for being in a new class and the SD for being a tank (I am not a big fan of the thin reticle, but that's another discussion). I am very interested in the Leupold Mk6 1-6x TMR. Not so much for the SWFA 1-6x. The reticle was changed on the SWFA, which I like less, and the weight is pretty high for a gun that needs to be nimble. The .2 mil adjustments on the Leupold aren't what I am used to, but I might be willing to get over myself to take advantage of that optic :p.
lifebreath
05-07-12, 16:15
Caveat: Please keep in mind I have never been in combat or life-threatening situations involving firearms. I've been around firearms for 40+ years, but only recently have gotten into the AR realm. I have spent a considerable amount of time in the past year taking tactical training classes, running drills, getting involved in 3-gun and buying more stuff than I need! I've also looked at other people's setups trying to evaluate what works, what does not and why. Despite my short experience in this realm, I am a fast learner and I have no problem making authoritative statements that I will read a year later and simply shake my head in disbelief. That being said ...
I run a Swarovski Z6i 1-6x24 with BRT reticle (http://www.swarovskioptik.us/en_us/products/57) on my 3-gun rifle (Noveske 16" Combat Carbine upper on LMT rifle length lower). I run a Trijicon TR24 Accupoint Trijicon TR24 1-4X24 Accupoint with green triangle (http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TR24G) on my Knights SR-15, which I have used for carbine classes and some 3-gun. I run an Aimpoint Comp M3 on my BCM 14.5" for HD and carbine classes. I also have two ACOGs, a TA31 (4x) and TA11 (3.5x).
First, I'll get the ACOGs out of the conversation with a few comments. I love ACOGs - bright, clear glass, nice reticles, no batteries, bombproof and lightweight for magnified optics. I've never been in combat, but I would think these would still be an exceptional all-round combat optic. However, for QCB, HD or 3-gun, there are much better options ...
Next, I'll comment on the Aimpoint Comp M3: no better optic for CQB-type shooting and HD. Fast, light, and reliable. Keep it on always and don't worry about the batteries. Just change them out every five years, four if you want to be certain.
Swarovski Z6i 1-6x24: I think there is simply no better optic for 3-gun. The clarity of glass is unparalleled in this class, and the mildot-based BRT reticle with illumination is unsurpassed for the higher precision mid- to long-range shots required in the sport. The cross hairs are not too thin nor too thick and are appropriately in the 2nd FP. Hold overs on longer shots, and wind holds, are pretty simple and quick with the reticle giving just the right amount of information without being cluttered. The illumination is there when needed, either for targets lost in dim shadow or for close-up work. The 1X setting with illumination is fast - not quite as fast as my Aimpoint or my Trijicon TR24, but plenty good for 3-gun stages requiring close up shooting. The eye box is sufficiently forgiving, but not as easy to get behind as the TR24, and I wish the turret adjustments were finer (they are 3/20 mil per click, or .54" @ 100 yards). You need a buttstock/optic mount combination that gives you an easily repeatable cheek weld so you can quickly get behind the scope and stay there. All in all, I simply love this scope - it's a work of art. And it costs as much as a work of art at $2400 or so. I was very fortunate to spend the past 3 days training for 3-gun competition with Daniel Horner and his dad (two exceptionally fine human beings). There's a very good reason he runs this scope and wins! (He could probably win running anything, but the Z6i is his first choice).
Trijicon TR24: Fast, fast, fast on CQB. I like this scope on 1X in daylight better than any. The big, glowing green triangle on a post is super fast and draws the eye immediately. The super easy eye box makes it a breeze to get behind and scan during target transitions, while that big, blazing triangle comes into alignment between eye and target. Just squeeze the trigger. Glass is bright and clear, but not Swarovski bright and clear. Reticle is deceivingly simple, yet effective ... at least out to 200 or so yards. At 300+, the base of the triangle can be used for holdover, but the posts are too thick and obscure the target. Plus, the clarity of glass starts breaking down about at that point. It can be used, but it really excels at 200 yards and in. It's lightweight and uses no batteries, which is a plus, and has a nice control for limiting light to the fiber optic. The tritium illumination at night is good, but will be washed out with a light. However, the post is easily visible in such case and is quite useable. The diopter adjustment on mine migrates counter-clockwise when shooting a significant number of rounds and needs a piece of electrical tape or equivalent to hold it in place. I've read about others having the same issue, and this should not happen on a scope in this price range. However, I think the TR24 is an exceptional value at $850 or so.
I've been running an Elcan SpecterDR (http://www.elcansightingsystems.com/products/dual_role_sights.php) for a couple years now. I use it for classes, range and training, so no combat use. It's a little bulky/heavy (though not too much compared to, say, and ACOG with mounted RDS).
It is a 1-4x (pretty damn close to true 1x), and I primarily use it in that role--it compares favorably to the Aimpoints I've used in FOV, parallax and eye relief. My only complaint there really is battery life--if they could incorporate Aimpoint's tech they would be supreme.
The really nice feature is the "push-button" 4x, which comes in handy for quick target PID or snap longer-range shots. It's a lot handier than the Short Dot or similar twist-magnification scopes, both going to 4x and coming back to 1x.
The mount is the typical Elcan monster, and the ARMS levers leave something to be desired, but I don't remove it from the weapon often, and I've never had to re-zero it when I do. Bottom line, if they got the battery life up and maybe offered a different mount, it would be a no-brainer for me; as it is, it's still good enough for everything I want it to do. (I should add that I got a pretty sweet deal on it, so I didn't pay close to retail...)
Just got my Lepould VXR patrol 1.5-4, SPR and am very happy with the quality of the glass and its general construction. I have it mounted of a Bobro P.O.M. (quality, all around on this mount).
I've only had two other scopes, one a bushnell banner, and the last a Nikon M223 1-4. I was happy until I looked thru the VXR. Its a noticible difference. I guess that old saying "you get what you pay for" is right.
Since my dept. wont allow magnified optics for personally owned patrol rifles, this scope will be relegated to 3-gun and range fun for now. Have my 1st 3-gun match this coming Saturday so I'll se how it performs for me. So far sighting in has been completed and it seems promising
olds442tyguy
05-28-12, 02:46
Trijicon TR21.
Hated the triangle reticle. The connection line beneath it made holdovers annoying. Glass was good. Illumination was okay, but never an issue. On 1.25 it was usable as a heads up optic. On 4X I felt it lagged a bit. Sold it to fund another project and regret it, but only for greed as the prices went stupid on them compared to when I purchased it.
Optisan Mamba.
Shit on an 1X setting. Foggy and lacks focus. Crystal clear from 2X up. Illumination is apparent in daylight, but not red dot visible. The circle dot is easy to pick up without it though. The green illumination doesn't show at all during the day, but is great at night. Good for a practice optic for $150. My cheap plinkers always have a habit of shedding lower end gear for the good stuff, which is the case here as well. This optic will be going to the low end product wasteland drawer next week.
Great thread and just what I'm looking for, as I am in the market to change my optic. My 3 gun optic is a Vortex PST 1-4x. As mentioned above, the eye relief and glass clarity are great. I love the circle and dot concept for CQB, especially hosier stages. The scope has been rugged, holds zero and doesn't weigh my 18" rifle down.
For me, the drawbacks are the lack of daylight visible illumination. However, I've never found the need. The easily visible circle and center dot are more than adequate. Second, I don't like the busy stadia line for holdover when shooting out to 300 and beyond. The holdover hash marks are too similar in size, hard to pick up on the RFP and maybe it's my 40 year old eyes, but they seem to blur together (when shooting long range). Finally, the exposed turrets are the top item on my pre-stage check list. I have found my turrets moved on multiple occasions. I test this regularly at the range and the good news is, the scope returns to zero every time!
I've recently decided to make an optic switch and have been looking hard at all the available scopes and planned release scopes. The swaro is high on the list. A 3 gun buddy has let me use his Z6i and I personally felt the illuminated reticle lacked the PST's speed up close. Zooming out to shoot mid range, the Z6i is far superior. The reticle is just cleaner to look at.
Ideally, I'd like to see a FFP or even DFP that provides the speed characteristics of an Aimpoint/EoTech for up close, then zooms in to display a clean, clutter free mil dot reticle. A straight bullet drop reticle like USO's GAP reticle at 6x or even 8x would be great. Add in locked turrets with 1/10 mil clicks and I'm good to go. Unfortunately, this is unobtanium.
I also run a H-1 on my SBR. What more can be said, this little monster rocks for its designed purpose. My first optic was an EO. I generally liked its up close features, but felt the size was a liability. What's more, I've seen too many go down and fall off carbine's while at training classes. I'm sold on the Aimpoint.
ffhounddog
05-28-12, 09:43
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/ffhounddog/DSC01391.jpg
Leupold VX-3 1.5-5x circle dot.
I have it mounted on a Mid Length rifle and it works well.
Battery is not close to aimpoint battery life but it does take the same battery as my compM2/Aimpoint Pro so if you have one of those you can have a standard battey if that matters. Very clear glass. I like it so far but I have just used a few 1-6x Leupolds and 1-4x SWFA. I prefer the Leupold but it could change. I really liked the GRSC scope I got to shoot with that was in 1-6x.
ffh
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_1_4X_24_Illuminated_Scope_PA14X_p/pa14x.htm
This was my first scope meant for my testing to see what I liked, as far as optics are concerned. I used it at some local tactical rifle matches that required running around across the local shrubbery and what-not. It feels solidly built, and despite some light bumps and bruises, it still retains zero. The brightness is fine for daytime use, once it's turned up a bit. I don't have any first-hand knowledge about battery life. I have it sitting in the mount that came with it, and that doesn't feel that solid. it was inexpensive, so I can't complain about that.
At 1x I didn't notice anything that odd about it. I thought I would have problems with 'tunnel' vision: looking through the long tube.
At 4x I noticed that it was more picky about eye relief. It was more picky than an ACOG, which is what I was issued out of the arms room.
I can't talk accurately about speed, fisheye, or any of that fancieness. I don't have the experience with too many optics to make that call.
Currently it sits on top of my 6.8 coyote gun, and I trust it for that limited use role (sitting there and waiting for something to come in front of me). If I do my part, it will help me get about 1 MOA on paper.
Meopta K-Dot for me. At the time I purchased it, it was one of the few choices that met my criteria. I want daylight illumination and non-load specific bdc retical. The 1-4x was also not as popular as it is now, and I wanted to try something different. This was going on a "precision "carbine, so I wanted a bit of magnification. But I also wanted something that could be used up close and personal. The 1-4x seemed ideal, and the K-Dot seemed to have what I could afford.
Here are a few observations and features, some I like, some I don't.
- Daylight lume, almost too bright in the dark
- Etched retical
- Large field of view
- True one power
- 1/2 moa click adjustment, I'd like 1/4
- Very clear glass
- Built in sunshade
- Sunshade protects objective
- Sunshade makes the over all length a little long
- Sunshade also makes it difficult to clean objective
- Sturdy but hefty
It now serves double duty in a DMR role
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn237/chorizoisgood/Snapbucket/AC122EF5.jpg
RogerinTPA
06-02-12, 18:05
I did the same, many years ago and came to the same conclusions. I got a deal on a after Christmas sale from of all places, the sportsmansguide for $650.00. It has very clear glass, but it is a bit on the hefty side. Mounting a "cat tail" to adjust the magnification helped a lot.
Meopta K-Dot for me. At the time I purchased it, it was one of the few choices that met my criteria. I want daylight illumination and non-load specific bdc retical. The 1-4x was also not as popular as it is now, and I wanted to try something different. This was going on a "precision "carbine, so I wanted a bit of magnification. But I also wanted something that could be used up close and personal. The 1-4x seemed ideal, and the K-Dot seemed to have what I could afford.
Here are a few observations and features, some I like, some I don't.
- Daylight lume, almost too bright in the dark
- Etched retical
- Large field of view
- True one power
- 1/2 moa click adjustment, I'd like 1/4
- Very clear glass
- Built in sunshade
- Sunshade protects objective
- Sunshade makes the over all length a little long
- Sunshade also makes it difficult to clean objective
- Sturdy but hefty
It now serves double duty in a DMR role
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn237/chorizoisgood/Snapbucket/AC122EF5.jpg
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