View Full Version : Running an LEO Cruiser style gun lock?
Reagans Rascals
04-14-12, 07:39
What is the legality in regards to a civilian running an LEO Cruiser style gun restraint/ rack in their vehicles in the state of Virginia?
I'd like to be able to run one in my jeep to keep my AR easily accessible if need be, with the mags in an under-seat CCW vault..
I was looking at keeping it either between the front seats or perhaps secured to the overhead console between the roll bar running front to rear...
I know keeping it in a trunk vault is ideal, but just for the sake of discussion... does anyone else do this? What would be the legality of doing so? I know the ammo must be secure and separate from the rifle, and if it is, is there anything wrong with running this type of setup? Besides the obvious giveaway to anyone that looks in your car...
Just looking for opinions on legality and if anyone else does this... perhaps while off-road?
Not looking for opinions on if I should or shouldn't... simply asking if its legal.
It is going to depend on your state and local laws. I keep a loaded rifle in my car accessible to me at all times. In my area it's perfectly legal. If I had a jeep or truck I would probably do exactly what you are talking about.
nobody knows
04-14-12, 17:03
I have been looking into getting the same setup since I can keep a loaded rifle in the car with my ccw in Oklahoma. But since I will be moving to Oregon in the next year I have decided to wait until I find out if it is legal in Oregon first. As it seems to be the best way to store a loaded gun as fare as security is concerned.
Just looking for opinions on legality and if anyone else does this... perhaps while off-road? Not looking for opinions on if I should or shouldn't... simply asking if its legal.
I'll defer legalities to the VA-informed.
Good installation of a security rack in a Jeep while keeping the rifle accessible is quirky, depending on your model and your particular needs. I have played with different configurations of TufLocs and Santa Cruz racks in different Jeeps (TJ, YJ, XJ, JK) and was never content. Roll-bar mounting is easiest. Spending a lot of time in Jeeps though, I've found that non-descript portable cases are the best solution for me.
If you have more particulars about what you're wanting to accomplish, I can probably offer more.
Army Chief
04-14-12, 19:26
Another Jeep guy here (TJ), and I was contemplating this very thing today. Would like to see some recommended products and/or mounting solutions that others have found effective -- roll-bar mounted, or otherwise.
AC
Suwannee Tim
04-14-12, 19:58
....I've found that non-descript portable cases are the best solution for me.....
Can you be more specific? I don't have a Jeep, I have a car and a Chevy Astro van (which I love and have loved for 12 years). I don't necessarily want to carry a locked and loaded AR but I would like to travel with one. I don't because I haven't put the necessary thought and effort into securing it.
I'm curious to know if this is legal or not in Va as well. From my understanding you may not have a concealed long rifle or any sort of weapon with the exception of a pistol with a concealed handgun permit in the cabin of your vehicle.
I know in Va it is legal to open carry a rifle but I'm pretty sure there is a 20 round magazine limit.
Can you be more specific? I don't have a Jeep, I have a car and a Chevy Astro van (which I love and have loved for 12 years). I don't necessarily want to carry a locked and loaded AR but I would like to travel with one. I don't because I haven't put the necessary thought and effort into securing it.
Stuff like this, posted in a Jeep/Trunk Carry topic.
I like the rear compartment on the new ones. They're not accessible to the driver at all, and have limited accessibility to others, but it can be useful. This in a JK:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/baf8aed1.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/955dea44.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/9f38019e.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/34dcac94.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/dab404e3.jpg
Hiding the carbine in plain sight has utility. The case is a reinforced Walmart backyard volleyball kit. Someone is going camping, to a picnic, or similar activity.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/ff00a4fc.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/6f8db8c1.jpg
Moving it to the rear passenger seat makes it more accessible.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/a256030c.jpg
Baseball, anyone?
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/43e3ab9c.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/3c316be5.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/f6952a69.jpg
The interior dims are favorable to this carry method. When the front passenger seat is all the way back, the left seat rail has a protrusion that the stock fits nicely on. Rest the handguards in between the grab handle and the center dash, then secure with velcro or shock cord. Not discreet, but access is rapid. Very useful in the backcountry.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/df948dd4.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/Jeep%20Pics/79be364f.jpg
All, food for thought.
I'll echo my earlier statement... If it can't be secured...truly secured...in the vehicle, it should be a case or bag that can travel discreetly and easily.
Another Jeep guy here (TJ), and I was contemplating this very thing today. Would like to see some recommended products and/or mounting solutions that others have found effective -- roll-bar mounted, or otherwise.
AC
I took pictures of some of the mounts. I'll see what I can find to post. Pretty standard stuff though, just the roll-bar cage mounts on standard LE racks.
Putting the gun on the floor was tough, due to the cramped floorspace. If you didn't have rugrats or backseat passengers to worry about it was a little easier.
Reagans Rascals
04-15-12, 03:05
I am gonna fab something up pretty soon that will be pretty useful.. once I get it fabbed up I'll post some pic's and start taking orders :dirol:
I live in Colorado but I'm planning to run a roof mounted rack system for several reasons.
1) Out of sight. Harder to see by prying eyes. Not too many people looking into vehicles to decide which ones to break into look up.
2) Locking. If someone should happen to break in & does notice it on the roof they won't be able to get it out. My biggest fear about having firearms not on my person is them falling into the wrong hands.
3) Accessible. With a quick press of a hidden button or use of a key should there be no power connected I have a fully loaded AR15 in my hands and ready to roll.
My buddy has a pretty sweet system that another buddy fabbed up using a steel plate. It's connected above the extended cab seats in his Chevy truck and uses the grab handle bolts to secure. Then on the plate he has the c-cuff style lock and butt plate to actually secure the AR15. I don't have grab handles (Tacoma Access Cab) but if I have to I will pull the headliner and weld a mounting adapter right to the roof.
These are the parts I'm talking about. Several sites sell them and some state they don't sell to civilians. I'm just trying to find the cheapest price right now so I can order and get started on the fabrication process.
http://www.police-equipment-worldwide.com/catalog/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/9/3/934-5.gif
glockshooter
04-16-12, 12:09
There are several legal issues to deal with. You should read 18.2-308 and then go to the State Police website and do some research.
Matt
Reagans Rascals
04-16-12, 12:23
There are several legal issues to deal with. You should read 18.2-308 and then go to the State Police website and do some research.
Matt
18.2-308 mentions nothing about carrying an SBR in your vehicle
and the VA State Police website only mentions the following:
§ 15.2-915.2. This section empowers the governing body of any county or city to, by ordinance, make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Game wardens, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce theprovisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect. The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifleor shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.
which essentially means... if its not loaded.. and the ammunition is separate and secure from the rifle... you are well within your legal limits to carry it in your vehicle
Reference Jer's illustration:
We used to have the rifle rack that's depicted on the left hand side. Once we switched to personally owned AR, we quickly found that the "flat against the roof" mounting method left no room for optics. If you mount it to a bar or beam directly behind the gun, the space between the upper receiver and the mounting bracket will likely only leave you with room for an A2 carry handle or low pro BUIS, but not optics (IIRC, we even had trouble with the knobs on the A3 handles).
As for security, without divulging anything, many santa cruz style racks can be defeated, and an AR can be charged and fired while still in the lock.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-17-12, 00:20
Once, when I was young and retarded, I took my girlfriend to the mountains in the Jeep. I brought my Rem 870 along, and figured it would be cool to have it mounted on the roll bar of my jeep, but since I didnt have a mount I would just wedge it between the soft top and the top rollbar. It stayed all the way from Loveland to Estes, but as soon as we started driving down a steep decline, I felt something bash me in the back of my head and my GF started crying. Apparently, that wasnt the best way to store a shotgun in a Jeep.....
There is a guy on JeepForums that mounted his M1A on to the top of his hardtop (TJ) using the same style of clamps that Jer pointed out I believe. For me, I dint see any reason to have it visible to others in anyway as it is just inviting them to, at the very least, break in and try to steal it. I keep mine in a discreet bag in the backseat most of the time, especially since in CO you cant have a loaded rifle in the vehicle with you (poaching laws).
Reference Jer's illustration:
We used to have the rifle rack that's depicted on the left hand side. Once we switched to personally owned AR, we quickly found that the "flat against the roof" mounting method left no room for optics. If you mount it to a bar or beam directly behind the gun, the space between the upper receiver and the mounting bracket will likely only leave you with room for an A2 carry handle or low pro BUIS, but not optics (IIRC, we even had trouble with the knobs on the A3 handles).
As for security, without divulging anything, many santa cruz style racks can be defeated, and an AR can be charged and fired while still in the lock.
My plan is for it to mount to the roof sideways (mag pointing towards the windshield) and muzzle towards the passenger side of the truck. If need be I will fabricate a bracket/adapter to make this work and will make sure that an optic and all other accessories clear it. That's the beauty of buying the parts and then building your own. When I move forward with this I will literally be buying the two parts in the pic and building the rest.
Once, when I was young and retarded, I took my girlfriend to the mountains in the Jeep. I brought my Rem 870 along, and figured it would be cool to have it mounted on the roll bar of my jeep, but since I didnt have a mount I would just wedge it between the soft top and the top rollbar. It stayed all the way from Loveland to Estes, but as soon as we started driving down a steep decline, I felt something bash me in the back of my head and my GF started crying. Apparently, that wasnt the best way to store a shotgun in a Jeep.....
There is a guy on JeepForums that mounted his M1A on to the top of his hardtop (TJ) using the same style of clamps that Jer pointed out I believe. For me, I dint see any reason to have it visible to others in anyway as it is just inviting them to, at the very least, break in and try to steal it. I keep mine in a discreet bag in the backseat most of the time, especially since in CO you cant have a loaded rifle in the vehicle with you (poaching laws).
I won't leave a gun in a vehicle unsecured I don't care how well hidden it is. I know too many people that have had backpacks & other types of bags stolen from their cars to risk it. If someone sees a bag in a car and wants to break in to take it just on the off chance that it has something decent in it and it's your bag.... Merry Christmas to them! I just can't relax when firearms aren't on my person or locked in my safe at home.
AR's are tougher to deal with because they are taller than other systems, regardless of locking or carry mechanism.
For systems other than ARs (or others with protruding detachable magazines), try a scabbard sewn into one of the rollbar cover. Use like material and it disappears except on closer examination.
I'm playing with a soundbar modification right now that will carry some guns. If it comes together, I'll do a write up on it.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-17-12, 01:10
I won't leave a gun in a vehicle unsecured I don't care how well hidden it is. I know too many people that have had backpacks & other types of bags stolen from their cars to risk it. If someone sees a bag in a car and wants to break in to take it just on the off chance that it has something decent in it and it's your bag.... Merry Christmas to them! I just can't relax when firearms aren't on my person or locked in my safe at home.
I totally agree and can see the reason for the mounts. I rarely leave my rifle in my vehicle, if I do them I am just running into the store pre/post shooting range. I dont do the whole "active shooter" prep, but I support those who do!
ThirdWatcher
04-17-12, 01:57
Legalities aside, securing your long gun in a lockable mount seems like the socially responsible thing to do.
Reagans Rascals
04-17-12, 08:59
I am fabbing up an overhead console between the front and mid roll bar(4 door JK)... it will be made of 1/8 plate steel, the bottom will open and swing down to the right giving the driver access. I will use straps with button snaps to secure the rifle in and thus all the driver will have to do is open the bottom, reach up and grab the rifle, yanking down and freeing it from the restraint.
I will use an electric style lock that also has a key back-up in case of power failure...
Basically a lockable overhead console, with the switch hidden out of sight under the dash or drivers seat. If the rifle is immediately needed simply press the switch, reach up and snatch it out, slap in a mag and go to work...
It won't be discernible to anyone who looks inside, that there is an SBR staring them in the face... This way you are free to park your jeep with the top down and the doors off without fear of losing your weapon...
I will disguise the console by modifying something like this to cover it, but still allow it to open.....
http://www.smittybilt.com/product/index/92.htm
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t403/jwmassaro/92_2.jpg
It should work for most shorter weapons... including AK's with folding stocks
glockshooter
04-17-12, 09:51
18.2-308 deals specifically with concealed handguns and 15.2-915.2 deals with transportation of loaded long guns. What I was trying to get you to see was with 308 you can only conceal a handgun with your permit. As a police officer if you have a rifle in the cabin area of your vehicle that is concealed whether you have a CCW or not you can be charged. I like the idea, but I don't know how it would work out for you if you get stopped. If it was me I would want to check it out and BS with you but that is probably not the same reaction you would get from most.
Matt
18.2-308 mentions nothing about carrying an SBR in your vehicle
and the VA State Police website only mentions the following:
which essentially means... if its not loaded.. and the ammunition is separate and secure from the rifle... you are well within your legal limits to carry it in your vehicle
Reagans Rascals
04-17-12, 10:30
What I was trying to get you to see was with 308 you can only conceal a handgun with your permit.
Matt
No I believe you are incorrect.
You can only legally conceal a LOADED handgun... neither section pertains to the carrying of an UNLOADED long gun, where the ammunition is separate. When the weapon is unloaded it is no longer under the grounds of concealment, it falls under transportation...and the second section deals only with transportation of a LOADED firearm. We are speaking in terms of an unloaded weapon.
Carrying an unloaded anything, with the ammunition not secured in the same area as the weapon, is in fact legal.
My buddy has a pretty sweet system that another buddy fabbed up using a steel plate. It's connected above the extended cab seats in his Chevy truck and uses the grab handle bolts to secure. Then on the plate he has the c-cuff style lock and butt plate to actually secure the AR15. I don't have grab handles (Tacoma Access Cab) but if I have to I will pull the headliner and weld a mounting adapter right to the roof.
These are the parts I'm talking about. Several sites sell them and some state they don't sell to civilians. I'm just trying to find the cheapest price right now so I can order and get started on the fabrication process.
http://www.police-equipment-worldwide.com/catalog/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/9/3/934-5.gif
I ordered the parts for this yesterday along with the variable delay electric release module. Now to figure out how to fabricate a mounting bracket to mount this all to.
I'll be doing something similar to this but in my new Tacoma:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-78dSh1PzLLc/T48h-oP-R9I/AAAAAAAACfA/wFo45imdp5U/s1024/2012-04-17%252018.04.12.jpg
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-20-12, 04:39
I know this isnt exactly what you were looking for, but here is the example from JF:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f68/overhead-gun-rack-installed-509440/
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