View Full Version : New pistol suggestions
Greetings, I haven't been on the forum in awhile as I reaquainted myself with my long time love of motorcycles a few years ago & that's taken up my spare time & money. I plan on getting a new pistol for my birthday in few months & would like some suggestions-it'll be used for range/fun & home. I want it to be a 45acp.
I'm a 1911 guy (been my personal & professional sidearm in the past)-it's what I learned to shoot when I was 12, now 55-my preferred brand is Les Baer. However my funds for the upcoming purchase will be greatly reduced.
Last week I got to handle & shoot a S&W M&P 45 & I was quite impressed (if the 4.5" is the full size that's what it was). Forgot to add my friend that bought this one had put on the small backstrap & that's what felt best to me as well.
I don't really want to get another 1911 since I can't afford the Baer (I'm stubborn that way), hate the way Glocks feel in my hand, don't care for the traditional da/sa semi (though I am quite familiar with Sigs & S&Ws).
The M&P seems like a great pistol but want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything else.
Thanks.
Most here will probably say Glock or M&P but I like my XD45 and would consider a XDm45 if I were in the market for a new .45.
Walther PPQ and Caracal have been getting some good reviews
scratch that, you want 45. I don't think these two pistols come in 45
The full-size S&W M&P45 has a 4.5" barrel, and it is a great pistol. I've had mine for about 7 months and have worked it hard ever since. I have 7,300 flawless rounds through it so far, and it has been very accurate. I carry it everyday, both on and off duty. I use the small back strap, which feels best to me. In regards to the Glock .45acp pistols, I have a G21SF, and it has been very reliable and accurate. If the M&P45 feels the best, go with it. You won't be disappointed.
Based on a little trigger time (under 200 rounds each) between a .45 glock 21, xd full size and HK45 (haven't used an M&P45) I'd go with the HK45 all day long. But for the price if a M&P45 is similiar to the M&P9 the M&P45 would be a hard one to beat.
For me the grip angle on the Glocks are wrong, I used a 19 for a while-dead nuts reliable, great combat accuracy but I always felt like I was fighting it.
Grizzly, do you have a variant 1 HK? The Compact version fit my hands best the last time I tried one which was about 4 years ago. Frankly I can't remember the last time I even saw one so I honestly forgot about it.
Thanks for the speedy replies gents.
F-Trooper05
04-15-12, 02:14
that's taken up my spare time & money.
my funds for the upcoming purchase will be greatly reduced.
I can't afford the Baer
With those things considered, why do you want a .45?
With those things considered, why do you want a .45?
I agree with this question. However, if you must go .45, then the M&P seems the best option given your criteria and history with the 1911. A M&P45 with thumb safety that has the APEX FSST feels VERY similar to a 1911. This upgrade with quality NS will run you about $700. The next option would be a HK45/45c, but my suspicion is that $1K is out of your price range.
Failure2Stop
04-15-12, 03:06
I have seen and heard good things with the M&P .45 and the HK45.
The HK45 is not only the best .45 on the market but the best combat handgun as well. The only problem is that it'll set you back right around $1,000.
If you don't want to spend that much then the HK USP .45 is essentially the same thing except it has more capacity and the ergonomics aren't quite as refined but still very good. Most 1911 guys I know really dig any HK's and especially the USP models. You can get a police trade in with several lifetimes of service still left in it for right around $500.
As to why I want a .45? #1 In my experience it's an outstanding choice for my chosen uses, #2 I have quite a bit of both range & sd ammo in this caliber (over 2k rds-just because I didn't keep the weapon doesn't mean I didn't keep the ammo), #3 My son is set up for reloading .45 :D.
I will look further into the HK, thank all you again for your great ideas.
Most here will probably say Glock or M&P but I like my XD45 and would consider a XDm45 if I were in the market for a new .45.
Try the XD XDm....recently picked up an XD .45 compact...shoots rather well...almost like a 1911 in ease
I just purchased a Sig SP2022 and Springfield XD9 Service model, both in 9mm. I've fired around 500-600 rounds of assorted ammo through each with no failures of any kind. The fit and finish of both of these pistols is excellent. I am very pleased.
Not to be a dick but I wouldn't listen to any suggestions that claim the gun has a superior "fit & finish". What the hell is fit & finish and why would that matter?
What matters is reliability and shootability (ergos?), anything else is an added bonus.
XDM's and Sig 2022's are not particularly high quality weapons and I know those Sig's in particular have accuracy issues. My buddies shoots like 2" off, every time. No way around it. XDM's are way overpriced and generally suck big. I'd purchase the Sig 2022 over an XDM any day of the week.
If you're looking for a quality .45 that's not a 1911 then you currently have about five options: classic German Sig Sauer's (Pre 2005), Glock, M&P, Heckler & Koch, and FN. Anything else is sub-par. Sorry, that's just how it is.
Gutshot John
04-15-12, 11:08
Define and quantify "suck big."
I'm not an owner or a particular of XDs but many, many people have and like them. Why is the multitude of the experience, less valid than your second hand experience with one of your buddies?
It's a sample of one, likewise I owned one XD sample (which I sold for myriad reasons) and while I wouldn't recommend one, they certainly shot to point of aim and were perfectly reliable for the 3K rounds I put through it. I've seen more than a few in shooting classes and they've performed adequately.
Again I'm not saying that what you're saying isn't without merit, but you need to quantify things beyond "suck big."
As for the OP, how much do you want to spend? Is the a CCW? or more general use? Are you set on .45? It sounds like you're leaning to the M&P? Any reason not to follow that inclination?
It's just more second-hand knowledge and Internet rumor. They can't quantify it because they have zero idea of what they are talking about. I've had/have a XD9, (2)XD9 subcompacts, XD40sc, XD45 compact, XD45 and (2) XDm9 3.8. With the exception of my newest XDm9 3.8, which I just got and have not shot it yet, everyone has worked every time with all types of ammo and been very to extremely accurate. I've only had ammo-related malfunctions with UMC.
Last week I got to handle & shoot a S&W M&P 45 & I was quite impressed
The M&P seems like a great pistol but want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything else.
You are probably all ready at the finish line and likely will just look around for a race just to end up back there with the same results. In other words if the M&P seems like a good fit for you then it will likely be the winner. For some sort of due diligence look at the HK offerings since Glock is out.
As for XD and XDM I wouldn't put them in the fight here since it is all ready leaning towards M&P and possibly HK. Although I will say the XD and XDM line gets a bad rap where is is mostly undeserved with legitimate issues being in the minority it still falls short of being the best option for combat handgun, if this is just a range toy on the other hand and you just want something different then little to no reason not to look into it.
I have a couple of .45ACP's I'm about to list in the EE.
SIG 220-carry Elite
And
S&W 325 night guard revolver
Both are awesome and have just been safe queens.
If you're interested, PM me.
Failure2Stop
04-15-12, 12:02
Why is it that as soon as somebody asks about a pistol, there are a few recommendations for the XD, a resulting few disparing remarks about the XD, and then the entire thread turns into XD love countered by XD hate? Let it go. If somebody wants to recommend an XD, it's going to happen, and the LGS is going to push it as well. While I don't recommend them, and I think that the grip safety is a liability and parts availability/support is below more frequently adopted systems, it does work and performs to about the same standard as most duty-grade pistols.
For me the grip angle on the Glocks are wrong, I used a 19 for a while-dead nuts reliable, great combat accuracy but I always felt like I was fighting it.
Grizzly, do you have a variant 1 HK? The Compact version fit my hands best the last time I tried one which was about 4 years ago. Frankly I can't remember the last time I even saw one so I honestly forgot about it.
Thanks for the speedy replies gents.
I own 0 .45s. Too expensive to feed for no benefit for my world. I'm stuck in a .40 world trying to switch to 9mm. But my buddy who thinks .45 is God's only selected round for a handgun lets me get some trigger time occasionly on his HK. Shoots great and is drop dead reliable. If LAV recommends it I'd have a hard time saying it was anything but good to go.
Gutshot John
04-15-12, 12:15
Make no mistake, I'm not advocating the XD, I don't view it as being in the same league as a Glock or M&P. As I said I owned one and then I sold it for any number of reasons. I don't particularly like them but others do.
I just have a problem when someone makes a statement that something "sucks big" without any attempt at quantifying that. Especially when it seems to perform at least as well as many other brands. Drawing broad conclusions about the accuracy of a firearm from one problem piece (that may or may not have been the result of shooter skill or ammo) is problematic.
It's just more second-hand knowledge and Internet rumor. They can't quantify it because they have zero idea of what they are talking about. I've had/have a XD9, (2)XD9 subcompacts, XD40sc, XD45 compact, XD45 and (2) XDm9 3.8. With the exception of my newest XDm9 3.8, which I just got and have not shot it yet, everyone has worked every time with all types of ammo and been very to extremely accurate. I've only had ammo-related malfunctions with UMC.
Yeah, ok.
I use to frequent XDTalk and I just sold mine about two months ago. I am not new to Springfield's.
I liked my XD9SC. Sweet little gun for sure, but the disadvantages are clear. The XDM is on a whole 'nother level of suck. I've seen nothing but problems with buddies XDM's and you pay a premium price for absolutely nothing. I believe XD's are much more reliable. I do recommend the XD line if you're looking for a somewhat budget gun for $400 or less but if you're looking for a high quality gun it's definitely not a list-topper.
Hey, you know what they say about opinions.............. :D
Not to be a dick but I wouldn't listen to any suggestions that claim the gun has a superior "fit & finish". What the hell is fit & finish and why would that matter...?
Fit and finish is very important. The fit and finish between the slide and frame (and other critical parts) has to be right or the pistol will not function reliably. Knowledgeable and experienced shooters know there is much more to fit & finish than how well the outside is polished and how deep the bluing looks
Fit and finish is very important. The fit and finish between the slide and frame (and other critical parts) has to be right or the pistol will not function reliably. Knowledgeable and experienced shooters know there is much more to fit & finish than how well the outside is polished and how deep the bluing looks
Slide/frame fit as it affects functionality and reliability is unique to any given design, and from what I've seen here usually when people throw out "fit & finish" in the pro column for any particular firearm it is not in the context that you are describing, it is in the manner that djmorris is. They are for lack of a better term ignorant. The people that he is talking about are the ones that pick up their XD for the first time (or Glock, or H&K, or $10k uber custom 1911, or whatever), proclaim that it has a great "fit and finish" and use that as the basis to recommend it to everyone else on the interweb as the greatest thing since sliced bread, probably before even firing a shot.
Last I'll say on the subject.
I could care less what the OP buys with his money and that goes for all of mankind but to repeatedly hear how XDs suck or this or that, is not founded in any practical examples outside out isolated incidents. To say XDs 'suck' is the equivalent of someone saying they do not endorse Glocks because everyone knows they explode in your hand when you pull the trigger (Glock kaboom anyone?). It's just nonsense. It's all about preference and until there is any REAL data, the rest is bullshit.
Failure2Stop
04-15-12, 14:45
Make no mistake, I'm not advocating the XD, I don't view it as being in the same league as a Glock or M&P. As I said I owned one and then I sold it for any number of reasons. I don't particularly like them but others do.
I just have a problem when someone makes a statement that something "sucks big" without any attempt at quantifying that. Especially when it seems to perform at least as well as many other brands. Drawing broad conclusions about the accuracy of a firearm from one problem piece (that may or may not have been the result of shooter skill or ammo) is problematic.
I wasn't directing my comment toward you (in case your comment was directed at me :p ), but rather the frequent screen names seen on both sides of the "argument".
Last I'll say on the subject.
I could care less what the OP buys with his money and that goes for all of mankind but to repeatedly hear how XDs suck or this or that, is not founded in any practical examples outside out isolated incidents. To say XDs 'suck' is the equivalent of someone saying they do not endorse Glocks because everyone knows they explode in your hand when you pull the trigger (Glock kaboom anyone?). It's just nonsense. It's all about preference and until there is any REAL data, the rest is bullshit.
The problem is that there IS real data of the grip safety being an issue as well as sourcing replacement parts. Take away these two factors and you would be on equal footing as the bigger players.
Like I have said before, all pistols (hell, all firearms) have at least critical flaw. All one can really do is figure out how much that flaw plays into their use and purchase.
In the hands of a good shooter, they all pretty much shoot the same, so as weird as it is to say, the perceived accuracy of a pistol is pretty much irrelevant.
I base my suggestions on personal use, observed use, and reports from serious users. I make no money off of any of my recommendations.
ETA: If anyone wants to send me a stock 9mm XD I would happily test it side by side with Glocks, HKs, and M&Ps and send it back to you upon completion.
As for the OP, how much do you want to spend? Is the a CCW? or more general use? Are you set on .45? It sounds like you're leaning to the M&P? Any reason not to follow that inclination?
Thanks for you questions. I want to stay below $1k, no interest in ccw though occassionally it'll be used for "truck carry" & other general use.
A bit of history is in order, I'm no stranger to firearms but have been out of the "game" so to speak for a number of years due to my motorcycle addiction lol.
I've owned/used most makes & styles, not a fan of the da/sa trigger system though I did learn to use it quite effectively in a past life & as I've stated the 1911 is my preferred. I've stubbornly limited myself to Baer's (prior ownership, I had decided on a stainless Custom Carry w/a few mild mods but due to my older son's wedding next month I will be spending my funds on his gift rather than my own).
It's always been my advice when asked that how a weapon feels in the hand is the most important factor after the intended use is determined.
Yes, my first reaction after handling the M&P w/small backstrap was that I found my next purchase but wanted to make sure I didn't miss out on any others.
I thank all of you for your suggestions, I will leave the debate regarding particular pistols alone-we all have our favorites-and will search out a few to try & go from there.
Regards & be safe.
Doc
702Shooter
04-15-12, 15:25
For me the grip angle on the Glocks are wrong, I used a 19 for a while-dead nuts reliable, great combat accuracy but I always felt like I was fighting it.
That's exactly how I felt about my XDm .40 so I sold it and bought a G23.
Thought I would never get another XDanything after that but I was wrong. I LOVE the XDs as an ankle/pocket gun.
One additional choice that may be worth looking at is the FN .45. I have more trigger time with the .40 in the FNX line, but in my short time with it the .45 seemed to be solid. Though its overall size may be an issue..
I love HK's so I'm suggesting a USP/c. You can find either on the used market for well below $1k and you can carry either cockced and locked. My second suggestion is the FN. Low buy in price and cocked and locked option.
Good Luck.
packinaglock
04-16-12, 07:21
Last I'll say on the subject.
I could care less what the OP buys with his money and that goes for all of mankind but to repeatedly hear how XDs suck or this or that, is not founded in any practical examples outside out isolated incidents. To say XDs 'suck' is the equivalent of someone saying they do not endorse Glocks because everyone knows they explode in your hand when you pull the trigger (Glock kaboom anyone?). It's just nonsense. It's all about preference and until there is any REAL data, the rest is bullshit.
This is from Doc's thread: Thoughts on service pistols, along with duty and self-defence ammo recomendations.
As I've said before:
"If you want a Glock, get it in 9 mm, as the pre-2011 3rd gen 9 mm Glocks are probably the most proven pistols available. The new 4th gen G21's are also working well so far.
The HK45 and HK P30 are good reliable service pistols with great accuracy, but beware of HK customer service and parts availability.
These days, skip new Sigs, although the older German made Sig 9 mm’s are superb...
Unless you are issued one and have no other choice, Beretta is not optimal.
XD's are a no go for serious use--the inability to retract the slide without engaging the grip safety makes one-hand injured operation very difficult with the XD--this is a deal breaker for me. In addition, in some government tests, XD's (particularly the .40's) have broken a lot of parts compared to other pistols being tested...I'll take a 9 mm Glock or M&P any day of the week over an XD.
The M&P may just be the best LE service pistol produced to date. I was involved in a M&P40 trial at a large agency where four M&P40's fired 7000 rounds each in 1 week without any significant issues. Up to this point, we have not seen any major problems with M&P40/45's--they just keep steadily improving. Some M&P9's exhibit accuracy issues at ranges beyond 15 yds--hopefully S&W will soon rectify this inconsistency. The Apex duty kits can offer a substantial improvement for those who object to the OEM M&P trigger feel. An M&P40 w/ambi safety and Apex duty kit will be the service pistol I'll pick if I ever go back to uniformed LE patrol duties again".
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
XD's are a no go for serious use--the inability to retract the slide without engaging the grip safety makes one-hand injured operation very difficult with the XD--this is a deal breaker for me. In addition, in some government tests, XD's (particularly the .40's) have broken a lot of parts compared to other pistols being tested...I'll take a 9 mm Glock or M&P any day of the week over an XD.
I wasn't goint to hijack this thread any longer but since I was called out...
1. one-hand injured operation very difficult with the XD: Not even slightly difficult; It was proved to be another red herring argument recently on this board! If your hand is too low (it would have to be at the bottom of the grip), and can not depress the grip safety to rack the slide, then you would not be able to get a trigger finger to the trigger to fire it anyways. It holds no water.
2. Early XDs had a locking block design that was prone to failure until small relief cuts were made to it. The problem was more common with XD40s. Relief cuts made, problem solved. That issue doesn't exist anymore. There were more instances of Glock kabooms then there were broken XD40s. It holds no water.
3. Parts availability: True, there isn't quite the support that Glock has yet but there are lots of parts available for the XD line. Maybe even more than some other high-quality pistols. Maybe I might need to send my pistol to SA for some kind of maintenece or breakage someday but who cares? Most of the common things I can do myself.
This is supposed to be a BS-free site but when it comes to this particular weapon, that's all I hear. Sad.
And just for good measure:
XD TORTURE TEST
Trial by fire: 20,000 rounds are put through Springfield Armory's XD.
By Chaim Stein
XD torture test (http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/184369-xd-torture-test.html)
I would add little more to this discussion other than another vote for the H&K USP. I love mine, have had zero issues over the 14 years I've used it. I would only replace it for a new HK45, the frame is much lighter in design than my older USP, and all reports are that it functions and possesses the same levels of quality.
I have not looked at new prices, but I have seen a few gently used HK45's for around $600 or so.
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