Is there a good all-around hog, coyote & 2-legged varmint round?

[Doc Safari]

Specifically in .223 or 5.56 I'd like to have some mags on my vest loaded with an all-around good hog, coyote, and self-defense round.

Is there such a thing or am I trying to address three different problems with one solution?:confused:

[Wayne Dobbs]

I would simply choose one of the general patrol use or barrier blind loads from DocGKR's list and be done with it.

Sometimes we spend way too much time splitting unimportant hairs when we should be working on our competence. It's always easier to cogitate and postulate than it is to do the real work.

[Doc Safari]

I guess I should have phrased it differently. Are there loads appropriate for hogs that might overpenetrate with coyotes? In other words, are there loads that would not be appropriate for all three I named? Instead of asking "what will work" I guess I should have asked if one should leave out certain loads if one wants an all-around coyote, hog, and defense cartridge.

[BufordTJustice]

I guess I should have phrased it differently. Are there loads appropriate for hogs that might overpenetrate with coyotes? In other words, are there loads that would not be appropriate for all three I named? Instead of asking "what will work" I guess I should have asked if one should leave out certain loads if one wants an all-around coyote, hog, and defense cartridge.

Federal Mk318 62gr SOST rounds and nearly all rounds using a TSX bullet will penetrate the far side of what you are shooting at. Any round on Doc's list will work.

If you are looking to limit penetration, a fragmenting round using Hornady's 75gr TAP bullet with cannelure (T1C) loaded to NATO pressure, or a 55gr bonded soft point (Gold Dot) would provide adequate penetration without excessive over penetration.

I should tell you that too much time is wasted on worrying what bullets will do after they penetrate a target that has been struck in an effective zone. Don't get consumed with that.

However, limiting "overpenetration" (a term that was invented on the interwebz. People who have been in an actual gunfight will tell you it is BULLSHIT and does not exist.) just because you don't want the bullet to exit the far side of your target is pointless in and of itself. You should be much more concerned about the round UNDERpenetrating and not reaching vital organs in your target.

[Doc Safari]

I should tell you that too much time is wasted on worrying what bullets will do after they penetrate a target that has been struck in an effective zone. Don't get consumed with that.

However, limiting "overpenetration" (a term that was invented on the interwebz. People who have been in an actual gunfight will tell you it is BULLSHIT and does not exist.) just because you don't want the bullet to exit the far side of your target is pointless in and of itself. You should be much more concerned about the round UNDERpenetrating and not reaching vital organs in your target.

Yes, I get all that. I'm just thinking that a coyote is a thinner profile animal, and a round that might be perfect for inflicting a devastating wound on a great big hog might just pass right through a coyote.

(I guess I'm not explaining myself very well to get past the usual caveats about penetration and wounding in general). :(

If Doc's list is good for all three, then that's good enough for me. I was told on a previous thread that some of my Hornady varmint cartridges are probably not good enough for hogs, and so this thread was coming at it from the other direction: trying to avoid a round powerful enough for hogs but might do little damage/expand very little on a thin animal like a coyote.

[Grizzly16]

Yes, I get all that. I'm just thinking that a coyote is a thinner profile animal, and a round that might be perfect for inflicting a devastating wound on a great big hog might just pass right through a coyote.

(I guess I'm not explaining myself very well to get past the usual caveats about penetration and wounding in general). :(

If Doc's list is good for all three, then that's good enough for me. I was told on a previous thread that some of my Hornady varmint cartridges are probably not good enough for hogs, and so this thread was coming at it from the other direction: trying to avoid a round powerful enough for hogs but might do little damage/expand very little on a thin animal like a coyote.

If you look at the gel tests for most of the recommended rounds the perm cavity in the first 6 inches or so is devastating to something like a coyote. The good rounds are ones continue on with high retained weight and diameter AFTER making that initial cavity.

[C-grunt]

My brother in law has been doing some testing with the Mk318 that looks really promising. Good fragmentation but still has some good penetration with the solid base. Then of course you have the TSX rounds.

[mallowpufft]

I've taken coyotes with a .22lr and a .17 hmr. I've also taken them with a .41 mag. As long as you know where you're putting your round you could take coyotes with FMJ.
Pick a round suitable for hogs and don't worry about it. I can't say I've ever shot a yote where I was worried about not hitting the person in the next room.

It's best to blame my misspelled words on autocorrect.

[BufordTJustice]

Yes, I get all that. I'm just thinking that a coyote is a thinner profile animal, and a round that might be perfect for inflicting a devastating wound on a great big hog might just pass right through a coyote.

(I guess I'm not explaining myself very well to get past the usual caveats about penetration and wounding in general). :(

If Doc's list is good for all three, then that's good enough for me. I was told on a previous thread that some of my Hornady varmint cartridges are probably not good enough for hogs, and so this thread was coming at it from the other direction: trying to avoid a round powerful enough for hogs but might do little damage/expand very little on a thin animal like a coyote.

I'm trackin now.

I would just advise to stay away from any fragmenting type round aside from the Mk318 and the Hornady 75gr otm. All of the rounds on Doc's list are going to upset with the first inch to three inches after initial contact with the body. Most of them would create a more-than-adequate wound cavity in a smaller animal like a coyote and still carry deep enough to be useful on Hog.

I really like what I've seen Mk318 on raccoons and FL feral hogs. Very impressed with the substantial and rapid initial upset (even after penetrating the shoulder blade/cartilage plate of a hog) and the deep penetration of 'the ass end' as my redneck buddies like to call it. ;)

I shot what I would estimate to be a 10lb raccoon a while back and its little torso was ripped in half by the temporary cavity the round created and ensuing fragmentation of the nose of the bullet. I've also shot a 120lb hog and it was DRT. Shot punched through the shoulder blade/cart plate and really f*cked-up the lungs and heart. Only left a relatively small exit wound (like the Barnes TSX bullets...don't be deceived by this). Upon looking inside...the round looked a lot like the Hornady 75gr OTM I've used on hogs before. Just really solid tissue damage inside the chest cavity. It's on par with the Gold Dot SP and the Fusion SP I've used....but those don't leave many metal fragments behind.

The rounds you should NOT use are the Sierra Matching 77gr, M193, M855, or ANY varmint round...as they offer inadequate and very inconsistent terminal performance.

[MegademiC]

Here are typical wound channels of docs recommended loads:

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh63/vinnyraf870/gel.png

Above is 50 grain tsx(red dye) and iirc 75grain tap overlayed onto the pic.

These rounds upset quickly. For serious stuff the thing mk318 has is decent perfomance/price/reliability - its crimped, sealed etc. However, after it frags, you have a .22wadcutter basically. Its pretty good, but there are better options for less if you find it at the right time.

The bonded loads(if sp1 comes back, it would be the best option) offer similar performance, but penetrate with a mushroomed projectile instead of a plug.

5.56 OTMs are horrible at going through barriers and they dont upset reliably, so I's stay away from those for general purposes. As the pic above shows, a good expanding round will expand quickly enough to perform great on yotes or smaller game, but still achieve penetration for big hogs even after passing through intermediate barriers. 50gr tsx, tbbc(good luck gettin it or the winchester bonded) or a 64gr fusion are tops. If your just looking for something for animals and high volume - I just picked up some 64fusion loads by BVAC for under $10/box from ctd for an upcomming helo-slaughter.

[Doc Safari]

I replied in the other thread about .223 for hogs that I looked through a bunch of websites and used Google and I can't find those rounds on Doc's list anywhere.

Are the ones on Doc's list somehow LEO and military restricted or something?

Just wondering...are they only available through limited channels or something?

If they are restricted, are there civilian equivalents of those rounds?

[MegademiC]

tbbc is near impossible to find, not sure about the other FBI load(winchester).

However all the tsxs can be found - 50grain black hills new - 5.56 load is the one pictured above and the best readilily available option for SD, but its expensive.

the 70grain tsx is very good, but not after passing through barriers. If its for hunting, 70 is the way to go as it expands at lower velocities and has a higher bc which means much longer ranges.

the 64 grain gd is the same as 64 grain fusion bullet and is very good also - and cheaper. 62gr variants are damn near the same as far as I've read. The bvac load I got was using this bullet. I would NOT use this load for self defense as Bvac is new and I'm not confident in their loads yet, however for hogs - it should be great. 60-65grain bullets of a robust bonded soft-point bullet design seem to be the sweet spot right now.

[rob_s]

I replied in the other thread about .223 for hogs that I looked through a bunch of websites and used Google and I can't find those rounds on Doc's list anywhere.

Are the ones on Doc's list somehow LEO and military restricted or something?

Just wondering...are they only available through limited channels or something?

If they are restricted, are there civilian equivalents of those rounds?


https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=100454

[Doc Safari]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=100454

Thanks. I had forgotten that I read that thread a few weeks ago. :D