View Full Version : 1-4 Variable optic options
I haven’t given any thoughts to a mount yet, but for those with Leupold’s, do you prefer their mounts, or other, such as LaRue?
I love Leupold scopes. I think I have an even half dozen now.
I love Larue mounts. I have 3.
I will probably buy more of both after I sort out what I want on what.
I haven’t given any thoughts to a mount yet, but for those with Leupold’s, do you prefer their mounts, or other, such as LaRue?
For what rifle? If for an AR, then bolt-gun rings are a NoGo - you will need a cantilevered mount (ADM, Bobro, LaRue being the primaries). Lots of discussion threads on these three brands. The search function will yield lots of opinions and discussions.
For what rifle? If for an AR, then bolt-gun rings are a NoGo - you will need a cantilevered mount (ADM, Bobro, LaRue being the primaries). Lots of discussion threads on these three brands. The search function will yield lots of opinions and discussions.
Yes, this will be used on an AR. Colt 6920 to be specific. Not familiar with ADM or Bobro, but I do like the LaRue SPR / M4 scope mount. Not cheap tho. The Leupold mounts are confusing do to all the model numbers, and no real explanation about them on the Leupold site, but a lot less expensive than the LaRue. I’ll look up the ADM and Bobro. Didn’t even think about doing a search. Thanks for the info. :)
this section was very helpful! thanks for all the info, helped me decide on the 3 scopes i will be choosing between. :)
Viper PST 1-4
Mtac
leupold(bottom of list cause its not a true 1x)
this section was very helpful! thanks for all the info, helped me decide on the 3 scopes i will be choosing between. :)
Viper PST 1-4
Mtac
leupold(bottom of list cause its not a true 1x)
What do you want to use it for/do with it?
What do you want to use it for/do with it?
anywhere from 1-300 yds, with the option of stretching out to 600+ if i had a rifle that could actually do it lol. keeping coyote's and other pests at bay, and possibly white tail. my friend keeps insisting i could take one down with a 5.56. i usually hunt with my .270
leupold(bottom of list cause its not a true 1x)
Would you really be able to tell the difference between 1x and 1.25x of the Leupold?
I hear a lot of “it’s not a true 1x”, and the difference between 1x and 1.25x seems negligible to me. Anyone with experience with both 1x and 1.25x feel free to chime in with your experience.
Would you really be able to tell the difference between 1x and 1.25x of the Leupold?
I hear a lot of “it’s not a true 1x”, and the difference between 1x and 1.25x seems negligible to me. Anyone with experience with both 1x and 1.25x feel free to chime in with your experience.
i really like the look of the recticle on the viper a lot more than the leupold. i hated the look of the mtac/tac30. really thats more of a driving factor for me more than true 1x or 1.25x.
i really like the look of the recticle on the viper a lot more than the leupold. i hated the look of the mtac/tac30. really thats more of a driving factor for me more than true 1x or 1.25x.
That makes sense. The reticle on the Leupold is what leans me towards the Leupold, but I’d really like to look at them both in person. It’s really hard to do that on the internet. I have a feeling I’d be happy with either.
That makes sense. The reticle on the Leupold is what leans me towards the Leupold, but I’d really like to look at them both in person. It’s really hard to do that on the internet. I have a feeling I’d be happy with either.
go with what you gut tells you! thats what im doing. i knew in under 3 mins of holding the burris it wasnt for me.
bit the bullet got the vortex viper pst
wild_wild_wes
03-02-13, 14:06
Looks like the SS 1-6x have been trickling out. Anyone have one? Impressions?
Anyone have a complete list of 1-4 variable optic options?
1-6 or more would be interesting also.
Scope, functions, price.
Anyone have a complete list of 1-4 variable optic options?
1-6 or more would be interesting also.
Scope, functions, price.
There's this, not sure how up to date it is, posted by BigJimFish on the arfcom thread titled "The variable, low power multipurpose scope review thread":
http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo73/BigJimFish/1-4xtableimagecurrent_zps577906b8.jpg
Anyone else curious about the budget Bushnells coming out?
Power / Obj Lens: 1-4x 24mm
Finish: Matte
Length (in / mm): 9.4 / 240
Reticle: Illuminated BTR-1 FFP
Mounting Length (in / mm): 5.9 / 150
Field of View (ft@100 yds / m@100 m): 110 / 33 @ 1x / 36 / 11 @ 4x
Adj Range (in@100yds / m@100m): +60 / 1.7
Weight (oz / g): 17.3 / 492
Exit Pupil (mm): 13 @ 1x / 6 @ 4x
Eye Relief (in / mm): 3.6 / 93
Click Value (in@100 yds / mm@100m): 0.34 / 6.95
SWFA has them for $260 with a mount, although I don't think they're shipping until May.
Thinking about getting one just to play with.
.46caliber
04-01-13, 14:32
i really like the look of the recticle on the viper a lot more than the leupold. i hated the look of the mtac/tac30. really thats more of a driving factor for me more than true 1x or 1.25x.
Others have reported the bdc/holdovers being hard to pick up on the viper.
Have you seen the leupold HOG reticle? Available with and without illumination.
Here's the link:
http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/hog-riflescopes/
Shadowstalker
04-12-13, 14:56
I was looking to make my AR more distance friendly than it was with a Red Dot on it. After alot of research and taliking to some people it came down to the Vortex Viper 1X4X24 PST or the Leupold Mark AR 1.5X4X20 Firedot. I was lucky enough to find a close store that had both in Stock.
I ended up choosing the Mark AR for a few reasons but primarily Clarity and FOV. The Leupold hands down was clearer and brighter, which I didnt expect since the Vortex had 4mm more of obj. Two things I really liked about the Vortex was the Power Selector was bigger with a grippier rubber coating and the illumination options.
Others have reported the bdc/holdovers being hard to pick up on the viper.
Have you seen the leupold HOG reticle? Available with and without illumination.
Here's the link:
http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/hog-riflescopes/
ive had the viper for almost 2 months now, and i absolutely love it.
How are the Viper pst 1-4x scopes holding up for people here?
I'm looking for something to replace my aimpoint due to my astigmatism, but this will be going on my defense rifle so quality is a concern. A $2700 short dot is out of my budget, though.
How are the Viper pst 1-4x scopes holding up for people here?
No issues with mine over two+ years or so. It's not exactly my hard use optic, but it's seen 2 or 3k rounds of .223 and has been mounted on more than one rifle and base. It's currently in a Bobro base on a 16" Noveske upper.
.46caliber
04-25-13, 18:18
I was looking to make my AR more distance friendly than it was with a Red Dot on it. After alot of research and taliking to some people it came down to the Vortex Viper 1X4X24 PST or the Leupold Mark AR 1.5X4X20 Firedot. I was lucky enough to find a close store that had both in Stock.
I ended up choosing the Mark AR for a few reasons but primarily Clarity and FOV. The Leupold hands down was clearer and brighter, which I didnt expect since the Vortex had 4mm more of obj. Two things I really liked about the Vortex was the Power Selector was bigger with a grippier rubber coating and the illumination options.
Any info on the green dot on the Mark AR with Night Vision adapters?
How are the Viper pst 1-4x scopes holding up for people here?
I'm looking for something to replace my aimpoint due to my astigmatism, but this will be going on my defense rifle so quality is a concern. A $2700 short dot is out of my budget, though.
No problem with mine. Did not exactly drive nails with it, but two times had my rifle drop (scope down - how else?) from about 4' on wooden floor and no zero loss. It is not "Aimpoint strong", but it is tough scope. For defence use version with capped turrets will be better.
Trijicon finally has a new product.
The VCOG.
1-6x
Electronic illumination
700 hours continuous runtime on 1 lithium AA battery
1/2" @100 adjustments
4" eye relief throughout magnification
7 reticle choices, all on first focal plane
BDC available for segmented circle reticle 75-grain 7.62, 55- and 77-grain 5.56, or 115-grain supersonic 300 BLK
Horseshoe/dot reticle is available in each of the 5.56 and 7.62 offerings
Integral mount for 1913 rail, height perfect for AR/M4
MSRP: Starting at $2270.00
http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/community/whats_new_item.php?whats_newID=news_122
Will the prices of the 1-6 optics ever come down? That extra 2 power over 4x seems to get awful expensive.
I just got my SWFA 1-6 in the mail. It's my first scope so I don't have much to compare it to, but I'm pretty damn happy with it, especially for $900.
Will the prices of the 1-6 optics ever come down? That extra 2 power over 4x seems to get awful expensive.
Leupold VX-6's are only $750-850-ish depending on the model.
Trijicon finally has a new product.
The VCOG.
1-6x
Electronic illumination
700 hours continuous runtime on 1 lithium AA battery
1/2" @100 adjustments
4" eye relief throughout magnification
7 reticle choices, all on first focal plane
BDC available for segmented circle reticle 75-grain 7.62, 55- and 77-grain 5.56, or 115-grain supersonic 300 BLK
Horseshoe/dot reticle is available in each of the 5.56 and 7.62 offerings
Integral mount for 1913 rail, height perfect for AR/M4
MSRP: Starting at $2270.00
http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/community/whats_new_item.php?whats_newID=news_122
I DEMAND quick release... otherwise I need one but won't have one til it's "fixed".
Leupold VX-6's are only $750-850-ish depending on the model.
And fairly light weight too.
wild_wild_wes
05-02-13, 08:06
Trijicon finally has a new product.
The VCOG.
1-6x
Electronic illumination
700 hours continuous runtime on 1 lithium AA battery
1/2" @100 adjustments
4" eye relief throughout magnification
7 reticle choices, all on first focal plane
BDC available for segmented circle reticle 75-grain 7.62, 55- and 77-grain 5.56, or 115-grain supersonic 300 BLK
Horseshoe/dot reticle is available in each of the 5.56 and 7.62 offerings
Integral mount for 1913 rail, height perfect for AR/M4
MSRP: Starting at $2270.00
http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/community/whats_new_item.php?whats_newID=news_122
Looks like that might be a great candidate for the Army's Squad Common Optic.
At $2700 I will never be able to afford one.
What's the deal with the "under cover turrets" on the SWFA 1-6? Are those considered caps?
I DEMAND quick release... otherwise I need one but won't have one til it's "fixed".
Fixed: It is compatible with any ACOG QD mount. Think LaRue, Bobro, ADM.
Fixed: It is compatible with any ACOG QD mount. Think LaRue, Bobro, ADM.
Being traditionally an Aimpoint guy and branching out, how much of a riser is that?
Leupold VX-6's are only $750-850-ish depending on the model.
The Vortex and Leupold 1-6's I’d be interested in seem to be around $900. I’m having a hard enough time justifying $500 for a scope. I don’t see getting a ton of use out of one, but I want one.
Ned Christiansen
05-04-13, 10:56
At the NRA show yesterday I looked once again at the Nightforce 1-4X. I don't know why they don't make he dot brighter-- year after year it continues to be an "illuminated reticule" and not a "red dot". I find it not bright enough to use for daylight close and fast at 1X.
ok ive been reading till i'm blue in the face. so help me out.
looking for something that will provide the following
-more of a "red dot" when illuminated than an "illuminated reticle"
-simple mil based reticle (dont care if its mil-dot or hash just dont want it too busy expecially at low zoom)
-ffp/dfp (again think red dot at 1x but i dont want the dot any bigger at 4x)
-as close to a true 1x as possible when set at 1x
-decently light weight 16-19oz preferably
would like to stay $12-1300< but would spend a few hundred more if it made a huge difference
edit: i dont care if it has capped turrets since its not a precision scope
I'm really happy with my Leupold VXR-Patrol 1-4x scope, and it's only $600-.
Ar rhw NRA show yesterday I looked once gain at the Nightforce 1-4X. I don;t know why they dont make he dot brighter-- year after year it continues to be an "illuminated reticule" and not a "red dot". I find it not bright enough to use for daylight close and fast at 1X.
"I’m also convinced there’s a reason they don’t call themselves Dayforce Optics." - BigJimFish
The low powered NXS compact optics line has somewhat devolved over the years. People get more money for their used non-zero stop 2.5-10x24 scopes than brand new 2.5-10x32 scopes with zero stop retail for.
I just grabbed a 1-4 and have great early impressions of it. I'll be at a long range rifle course in June and will have to post back after that with how the optic performed. FWIW, I considered the following prior to purchasing this optic: Vortex PST 1-4, SWFA 1-4, Weaver 1-5, Leupold MKIV 1-5.
Leupold VX-R patrol 1.25-4x20 with illuminated SPR reticle
ADM Recon mount
Pros:
Cost (got it for a little above $500 with tax, street price is $579 if you can find one in stock)
Mil/mil
Great glass
Weight (11.6oz)
Good illumination
Holdover values calibrated for 5.56 and 7.62
Great feeling turrets (a la Nughtforce) with very positive clicks
Illumination auto off/motion-activated auto on
Very unobtrusive illumination dial (button)
Cons:
Stupid white writing everywhere
Not a true 1 power
Illumination button slower to adjust than a dial
No capped turrets
No zero stop
EDIT: here's the best review I've found on em: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=136078
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SOPMOD/992928E5-E52F-4A58-B1B2-5DE50DBE50B4-5109-0000019A35EE8330_zps99eb434d.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/78C2BE46-5B5D-464D-A841-032517875ECF-162-00000004A5F788F1_zpsef5b0093.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/9619EE68-1022-4C8F-88BE-2BD7D4738E2D-162-00000004A23345BA_zpsf516b894.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/8EEF457B-A5B2-4BA0-B1A7-1E75D3B5829C-162-00000003E08DC089_zps4402524d.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/8F825269-C50D-42D9-8C5C-53CB5EA419BB-162-00000003E4AED08D_zps14ef0238.jpg
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Mr.Anderson
05-23-13, 10:54
After spending I cannot count how many hours from page:1 all the way now to page:40, I have almost completely decided upon the:
Leupold VXR-Patrol 1-4x
It's about $250 more than I wanted to spend on a scope.
The first one I had in mind was the HiLux CMR but they are $300-$350 now.
Second choice was the Millet DMS1. I'm not too crazy with the reticle.
And reading reviews I feel it is more of a range optic than a "combat/defensive" optic?
Just wanted to put my $.02 in and say also this thread has been a big help in my search for an optic solution.
The VXR will be going on a BCM 20" (From G&R Tact) and I plan on purchasing an Aimpoint PRO from him as well to go on my Stag Arms.
Been looking for a secondary optic for my SCAR 16 SBR, which wears an Aimpoint Pro in ADM QD mount, sometimes in conjunction with a weapon mounted NVD for night hunting - love the Pro but wanted a day option, low power variable to put on it when the situation warrants.
As it will be a second optic for the weapon, wanted to keep overall costs down, and as its an SBR, want to keep it light weight as possible. A low end of 1.5x wasn't a problem as I have two other scopes like that and my eyes / brain can work that out.
After researching it I went with the Leupold Mark AR Mod 1 1.5-4x20mm Firedot-G SPR in an AD-Recon-S, both purchased from James at Otto Firearms. Very similar to the VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x scopes mentioned above, but smaller, lighter, cheaper, and possessing most of the same attributes, with some loss of low end magnification (1.5 vice 1.25) and illumination levels (6 vice 8). It also has a 1 inch tube vice 30MM of the VX-R model.
I don't really like the illumination controls (the single Leupold gold button on the left side) which goes up one level per press of the button, then flashes, followed by going down one level of brightness per press. But I dont hate it either, its just different. It does have Leupolds new MST - Motion Sensor Technology, which turns the illumination off after 5 minutes - I timed my example and @4+50 the Firedot flashes then turns off at 5 minutes - then the slightest motions turns it back on, which is nice. It appears to be daylight visible at the highest setting, but it isn't as big as an Aimpoint dot as it is only 0.3 mils. (Note that the dot looks bigger than pictured).
The elevation turrent is marked for Mils and yards for .223 / 55gr / 3100 FPS and custom turrets are available from Leupold, I'll probably do for 5.56 / 62gr / SBR velocities. People who have used it says it works well for them on various Internet reviews.
Anyway, I haven't been able to shoot it yet but after mounting it I believe it'll fit the bill of being able to help me reach out accurately to 300-400m, as well as see what I'm shooting at.
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/FD070296-2BD7-4EB0-8C9D-B17A8DCB8943-5440-00000176ED7A4424.jpg
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/ABE7E243-1054-4F0E-93E8-F371DE0EB9DF-5440-00000176F3EE0FBD.jpg
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/00F314DA-E2A9-4B5C-B9B7-B93C82D789AB-5440-000001770CEDA0F3.jpg
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/94FD199F-09FA-4F11-B5A8-5BEB7C6E5A6A-5440-00000176FC4DF12A.jpg
(like most scopes, it could benefit from a Switchview lever for faster - easier magnification changes)
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/CB1D2CFA-1608-4B33-B8CB-60931DEB038B-5440-00000177147F2B14.jpg
(dot appears bigger and brighter in reality)
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/D3E8455A-F7E5-4221-AA5F-AF5D5F7B2336-5440-00000176E68CBC17.jpg
Voodoo_Man
05-27-13, 17:08
I am looking to pick up one of the VX-R 1.25-4x optics.
I did some research and went out to local shops that stocked Leupolds. I saw the 1.5-4x and it was not something I wanted. While I do want a 1-6x optic.
Anyone have or can take "more detailed" pix of the VX-R ?
Anyone have or can take "more detailed" pix of the VX-R ?
Sure what would you like to see specifically?
Been looking for a secondary optic for my SCAR 16 SBR, which wears an Aimpoint Pro in ADM QD mount, sometimes in conjunction with a weapon mounted NVD for night hunting - love the Pro but wanted a day option, low power variable to put on it when the situation warrants.
As it will be a second optic for the weapon, wanted to keep overall costs down, and as its an SBR, want to keep it light weight as possible. A low end of 1.5x wasn't a problem as I have two other scopes like that and my eyes / brain can work that out.
After researching it I went with the Leupold Mark AR Mod 1 1.5-4x20mm Firedot-G SPR in an AD-Recon-S, both purchased from James at Otto Firearms. Very similar to the VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x scopes mentioned above, but smaller, lighter, cheaper, and possessing most of the same attributes, with some loss of low end magnification (1.5 vice 1.25) and illumination levels (6 vice 8). It also has a 1 inch tube vice 30MM of the VX-R model.
I don't really like the illumination controls (the single Leupold gold button on the left side) which goes up one level per press of the button, then flashes, followed by going down one level of brightness per press. But I dont hate it either, its just different. It does have Leupolds new MST - Motion Sensor Technology, which turns the illumination off after 5 minutes - I timed my example and @4+50 the Firedot flashes then turns off at 5 minutes - then the slightest motions turns it back on, which is nice. It appears to be daylight visible at the highest setting, but it isn't as big as an Aimpoint dot as it is only 0.3 mils. (Note that the dot looks bigger than pictured).
The elevation turrent is marked for Mils and yards for .223 / 55gr / 3100 FPS and custom turrets are available from Leupold, I'll probably do for 5.56 / 62gr / SBR velocities. People who have used it says it works well for them on various Internet reviews.
Anyway, I haven't been able to shoot it yet but after mounting it I believe it'll fit the bill of being able to help me reach out accurately to 300-400m, as well as see what I'm shooting at.
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/FD070296-2BD7-4EB0-8C9D-B17A8DCB8943-5440-00000176ED7A4424.jpg
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/ABE7E243-1054-4F0E-93E8-F371DE0EB9DF-5440-00000176F3EE0FBD.jpg
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/00F314DA-E2A9-4B5C-B9B7-B93C82D789AB-5440-000001770CEDA0F3.jpg
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/94FD199F-09FA-4F11-B5A8-5BEB7C6E5A6A-5440-00000176FC4DF12A.jpg
(like most scopes, it could benefit from a Switchview lever for faster - easier magnification changes)
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/CB1D2CFA-1608-4B33-B8CB-60931DEB038B-5440-00000177147F2B14.jpg
(dot appears bigger and brighter in reality)
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/D3E8455A-F7E5-4221-AA5F-AF5D5F7B2336-5440-00000176E68CBC17.jpg
It sounds very similar to the VX-R with lens clarity and dot color being the only difference? Besides price and weight?
I'd definitely agree that the illumination button needs improvement. It's touchy.
Voodoo_Man
05-27-13, 18:30
Sure what would you like to see specifically?
detailed shots of the turrets, adjustment knob, random angles.
Yes, very similar since they upgraded to the Mod 1 version. Lens coating, color of the dot, and the 1" vs 30MM tube, which I'm sure accounts for most of the size / weight difference.
It also doesn't have as much white writing on the side... ;)
detailed shots of the turrets, adjustment knob, random angles.
Scope overview
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SOPMOD/05BBBDC2-4157-4B9E-A392-DB5E0C16AF04-2341-0000009B8C5855C9_zpsc26afa0a.jpg
Brightness button and elevation knob
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SOPMOD/35B62CFF-92C2-48B7-B763-E659BBFE859F-2341-0000009B828BB829_zps4870e52c.jpg
Elevation and windage knobs from ejection port side
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SOPMOD/E3305F66-1A31-4F46-92EF-07980B16D1C5-2341-0000009B860F84C8_zps5f9c84b9.jpg
Elevation and windage knobs from top
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SOPMOD/D80DC5F8-D59C-479F-A2D8-CD1DB0E6F78B-2341-0000009B894D730E_zpse5f5182d.jpg
Magnification control
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SOPMOD/D9F01094-7A3E-454A-B631-FEC74F26638A-2341-0000009B8F58CF95_zps8fc69131.jpg
Yes, very similar since they upgraded to the Mod 1 version. Lens coating, color of the dot, and the 1" vs 30MM tube, which I'm sure accounts for most of the size / weight difference.
It also doesn't have as much white writing on the side... ;)
You're right on that, I could do without the white graffiti all over it. Almost as bad as a bio-hazard symbol.
Singlestack Wonder
05-27-13, 20:33
If Leupold would add an illumination knob and get rid of the button, they would have a low end leader here.
Scope overview
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SOPMOD/05BBBDC2-4157-4B9E-A392-DB5E0C16AF04-2341-0000009B8C5855C9_zpsc26afa0a.jpg
Brightness button and elevation knob
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SOPMOD/35B62CFF-92C2-48B7-B763-E659BBFE859F-2341-0000009B828BB829_zps4870e52c.jpg
Elevation and windage knobs from ejection port side
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SOPMOD/E3305F66-1A31-4F46-92EF-07980B16D1C5-2341-0000009B860F84C8_zps5f9c84b9.jpg
Elevation and windage knobs from top
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SOPMOD/D80DC5F8-D59C-479F-A2D8-CD1DB0E6F78B-2341-0000009B894D730E_zpse5f5182d.jpg
Magnification control
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/SOPMOD/D9F01094-7A3E-454A-B631-FEC74F26638A-2341-0000009B8F58CF95_zps8fc69131.jpg
You're right on that, I could do without the white graffiti all over it. Almost as bad as a bio-hazard symbol.
Hey Matt, maybe try a couple of light strokes with a crayon or even some thinned enamel or acrylic paint?? I say light and thinned as you wouldn't want to totally cover the markings, just subdue them a little. Just my .02
Cheers,
Glen.
If Leupold would add an illumination knob and get rid of the button, they would have a low end leader here.
I wonder if there could be a retro fit rotary knob option? I'm not familiar enough with the way battery orientation would play into this being/not being an option.
Anyone wanna come up with a solution?! Haha
Hey Matt, maybe try a couple of light strokes with a crayon or even some thinned enamel or acrylic paint?? I say light and thinned as you wouldn't want to totally cover the markings, just subdue them a little. Just my .02
Cheers,
Glen.
Might try that. I was thinking I a butler creek rear cap might cover it but none of those fit.
I emailed you back!
I guess the push button & MST illumination is cheaper than the rotary knobs they use on other scopes.
It isn't the worst setup really, the SRS takes the cake on that one IMO.
I guess with the MST, daytime you'll be at max illum anyway - the dot itself isn't huge... I guess I'll see how it works out at the range, but overall I'm still happy w/ the optic setup and I fully understood how the illum worked.
Voodoo_Man
05-27-13, 21:13
Thanks for the pix.
anyone have a link to an online manual?
I'd like to do some research.
Thanks for the pix.
anyone have a link to an online manual?
I'd like to do some research.
Honestly Leupolds online manuals leave soemthing to be desired and seem to be a catch all for makes, models, and reticles...
Voodoo_Man
05-27-13, 21:20
Honestly Leupolds online manuals leave soemthing to be desired and seem to be a catch all for makes, models, and reticles...
Ah, k then.
So stupid question then since I can't find a manual in my ten seconds of googling, what do the screws do on the turrets? I assume they loose to zero and tighten when zero'd ?
Ah, k then.
So stupid question then since I can't find a manual in my ten seconds of googling, what do the screws do on the turrets? I assume they loose to zero and tighten when zero'd ?
The three set screws are loosened to dial the turret caps to"0". Leupold over tightened them on mine, and they're a bitch to get loose.
Here is the general manual, it has all the info but it's for all of the models, so you have to hunt for what you're looking for.
http://www.leupold.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Tactical_Scope_Manual.pdf?91a9b8
Yes, the screws are to reset the 0 as well as change out BDC dials - Leupold makes different ones and you can call them with your bullet info / velocity / etc and they'll make a custom one for you to dial in elevation if you want.
Yep. But the SPR reticle is already calibrated for 5.56 and 7.62
Yes, it has rough calibrations (assuming that's a typo for the 5.56 of 550 twice...) but it's going to vary a bit.
As a general rule I prefer holdovers as well as opposed to dialing in the range, obviously it's fast to use a holdover but probably more accurate to use a dial or dope for your ammuniton and velocity at extended ranges. The SPR reticle itself isn't my favorite but for my use on an SBR it'll do.
.46caliber
05-28-13, 21:08
Yes, it has rough calibrations (assuming that's a typo for the 5.56 of 550 twice...) but it's going to vary a bit.
As a general rule I prefer holdovers as well as opposed to dialing in the range, obviously it's fast to use a holdover but probably more accurate to use a dial or dope for your ammuniton and velocity at extended ranges. The SPR reticle itself isn't my favorite but for my use on an SBR it'll do.
If you don't mind, what did you pay for the scope and the mount?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
If you don't mind, what did you pay for the scope and the mount?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
PM'ed you.
Voodoo_Man
05-31-13, 19:01
Another question for those running the vx-r.
What mount?
I am thinking an LT111 (http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-obr-qd-scope-mount) would go awesome with.
ffhounddog
05-31-13, 19:19
Rock it.
.46caliber
05-31-13, 21:00
PM'ed you.
Thanks man.
Had another question. You mention an NVD with your Aimpoint. Night vision adapter GTG with your Mark AR?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
looking for something that will provide the following
-more of a "red dot" when illuminated than an "illuminated reticle"
-simple mil based reticle
-ffp/dfp
-as close to a true 1x as possible
-decently light weight 16-19oz preferably
I second that, also looking for FOV not less than 20 ft, like Vortex Razor HD Gen II 1-6, or 27 ft for 1-4 scope.
What I really want is a vortex gen ii 1-6 with the reticle from their 1-4, but with another 10-20 moa (or mil equivalent, but I personally prefer moa) of hashmarks to the sides and bottom.
Is that too much to ask for? :(
Everyone complains about the reticle on the Vortex, big dealbreaker for the majority of people. I think when it came out and people complained they were said maybe we'll do another one in two years.
For 25 oz, they can either put some moa/mil hashes so we can range, or they can sit on it. See you in two years.
Alaskapopo
06-03-13, 05:40
Everyone complains about the reticle on the Vortex, big dealbreaker for the majority of people. I think when it came out and people complained they were said maybe we'll do another one in two years.
For 25 oz, they can either put some moa/mil hashes so we can range, or they can sit on it. See you in two years.
I would not say the majority. Its quite a popular scope in three gun.
pat
Failure2Stop
06-03-13, 06:17
I would not say the majority. Its quite a popular scope in three gun.
pat
I would hope so, it was pretty much built to be exactly that.
Really, I'm in the same boat as most of the other posters.
If it doesn't have mil-based drop and wind references, I'm just not interested. Doesn't mean that anyone else has to agree with me, it's based on my uses and needs.
I would not say the majority. Its quite a popular scope in three gun.
pat
Kind of like the Swarovski 1-6x.
Only if you could pick up a Swarovski for Vortex HD II prices most people here would be running one.
I'm deciding between a pst1-4, ss1-4, and the vx-r 1.25-4.
Is the Vx-r fast? This is going on a gen purpose/ hd gun and I'm thinking the Firedot is a big advantage for hd. I feel I'm fast with scopes up close but I have timed myself. This will be used mostly close in but reaching out on occasion. What is all your opinion on this, especially the speed of the vx-r patrol? I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere yet except for one YouTube vid.
I would hope so, it was pretty much built to be exactly that.
Really, I'm in the same boat as most of the other posters.
If it doesn't have mil-based drop and wind references, I'm just not interested. Doesn't mean that anyone else has to agree with me, it's based on my uses and needs.
Yeah, the way I feel too.
I'm honestly surprised it's such a popular 3 gun scope as (for me) the reticle is one of the slowest...and the things aint light.
I'm deciding between a pst1-4, ss1-4, and the vx-r 1.25-4.
Is the Vx-r fast? This is going on a gen purpose/ hd gun and I'm thinking the Firedot is a big advantage for hd. I feel I'm fast with scopes up close but I have timed myself. This will be used mostly close in but reaching out on occasion. What is all your opinion on this, especially the speed of the vx-r patrol? I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere yet except for one YouTube vid.
You can see what I bought, so my opinion will be biased I guess. Besides mil/mil, cost, and the weight...the firedot is another main factor that drew me to the VX-R. For me, illumination isn't for shooting at dusk or anything, it's to speed me up for shooting inside 25yd or so. That said, I don't want a bunch of different areas of the reticle lit up...I want the simplest thing I can get (think Aimpoint). So a bright red dot works, and it's also what I'm used to (after using Aimpoint M2s, C3s, micros).
The only way this combo could be faster is if it were a true 1x.
The 1-6x VX-6 has the same illumination system and is a true 1x and isn't too much more money. I'm kind of surprised that Leupold doesn't put as good of an illumination system in their $1700 MK6 as their $500 VX-R and $800 VX-6.
Another question for those running the vx-r.
What mount?
I am thinking an LT111 (http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-obr-qd-scope-mount) would go awesome with.
My brother runs both the PEPR and ADM. Says he sees no difference.
You can see what I bought, so my opinion will be biased I guess. Besides mil/mil, cost, and the weight...the firedot is another main factor that drew me to the VX-R. For me, illumination isn't for shooting at dusk or anything, it's to speed me up for shooting inside 25yd or so. That said, I don't want a bunch of different areas of the reticle lit up...I want the simplest thing I can get (think Aimpoint). So a bright red dot works, and it's also what I'm used to (after using Aimpoint M2s, C3s, micros).
The only way this combo could be faster is if it were a true 1x.
Thank you, pretty much what I thought. I was thinking the brighter simpler dot would outweigh the true 1x. How is the eye box, pretty generous? I'm really leaning vx-r due to weight also. A quater lb is significant and it's a lw style build that it's going on.
Just got back from the range with my Mark AR Mod 1, 1.5-4x with Green Firedot / SPR.
I have to say I think this scope is much better than the Mark 4 MR/T 1.5-5x CM-R2. Eyebox is more forgiving, the Firedot, while a small .3 MOA is day light visible, and the turrets were positive and consistent...
Really couldn't get a true 100 yard zero as I forgot my reactive targets and there were too many people on the range for me to check often, but I got a good 25 then 50 yard zero, setting POI 2 inches low at 50, which should get me pretty close at 100 when I get back to confirm / refine the 100 yard zero.
Up close at 7 yards it is subjectively pretty fast, not as fast as a RDS maybe but I did 2 mags of 20 from the low ready, on target and 2 rounds, wash-rinse-repeat. Having the SPR reticle was similar to using an Eotech, being able to use the reticle for holdovers up close vs just holding above the target with a Aimpoint (still love aimpoints, BTW).
Anyway, for <$400 I am very pleased with this scope.
The 1-6x VX-6 has the same illumination system and is a true 1x and isn't too much more money. I'm kind of surprised that Leupold doesn't put as good of an illumination system in their $1700 MK6 as their $500 VX-R and $800 VX-6.
I just moved my NF NXS 1-4X24 off my 3 gun AR and am looking to replace it with either the Vortex or the VX-6. I own a Mark6 1-6 but I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze for 17-1800 bucks.
The VX-6 3 Gun reticle looks interesting. Any feedback on that scope?
Thank you, pretty much what I thought. I was thinking the brighter simpler dot would outweigh the true 1x. How is the eye box, pretty generous? I'm really leaning vx-r due to weight also. A quater lb is significant and it's a lw style build that it's going on.
Yep very forgiving. The dot is obviously visible before you get the scope into position and are able to see through it/see the rest of the reticle.
Averageman
07-13-13, 17:22
Just got back from the range with my Mark AR Mod 1, 1.5-4x with Green Firedot / SPR.
I have to say I think this scope is much better than the Mark 4 MR/T 1.5-5x CM-R2. Eyebox is more forgiving, the Firedot, while a small .3 MOA is day light visible, and the turrets were positive and consistent...
Really couldn't get a true 100 yard zero as I forgot my reactive targets and there were too many people on the range for me to check often, but I got a good 25 then 50 yard zero, setting POI 2 inches low at 50, which should get me pretty close at 100 when I get back to confirm / refine the 100 yard zero.
Up close at 7 yards it is subjectively pretty fast, not as fast as a RDS maybe but I did 2 mags of 20 from the low ready, on target and 2 rounds, wash-rinse-repeat. Having the SPR reticle was similar to using an Eotech, being able to use the reticle for holdovers up close vs just holding above the target with a Aimpoint (still love aimpoints, BTW).
Anyway, for <$400 I am very pleased with this scope.
I just picked up this optic and mounted it on my DD M4 V7.
I will shoot it tomorrow and let you know what I think.
Thanks for the reviews here guys.
Averageman
07-15-13, 17:56
The Scope is adequate for the Money.
The reticle is a little busy for my taste, green dot is fine. Adjustment on the dot were fine and it turned off when it sat still for several minutes, then turned right on when moved.
No problem zeroing. Adjusted fine, crisp distinct clicks.
I am not estatic, just a decent scope
Will_Power
08-08-13, 11:35
I am slowly working my way through the thread as well as doing my due diligence elsewhere around the net, but thought I might as well as here, too.
I've got a 1.5-4x Mark AR (duplex, non-illuminated) on my FAL and am thinking of upgrading to an illuminated reticle in the 1.5-6x-ish range. Would prefer to not get too large a bell on this thing (e.g. stay away from the 40mm+ out there).
My budget will be around $800 to a grand if I save up longer. I'm aware of the Leupold VX-6. Are there any others I should be aware of?
My budget will be around $800 to a grand if I save up longer. I'm aware of the Leupold VX-6. Are there any others I should be aware of?
Would like to know more as well. I actually have the VX-6 Multi gun model on order right now. Looking forward to when it comes in.
-Jax
Would like to know more as well. I actually have the VX-6 Multi gun model on order right now. Looking forward to when it comes in.
-Jax
Got to handle on in person; makes me want to trade in my VX-R Patrol for it. Now if Leupold would just put a better reticule in it than the SPR.
For those of you curious about the VX 6, I recently picked one up. I have a review with reticle picture.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=179968
Overall, a very good optic.
Mic
Have you noticed any zero changes between the power changes on the 1-6?
wild_wild_wes
08-25-13, 18:38
I have a perfectly good ACOG and a perfectly good T1 I use on the same rifle. Would I be crazy to ditch those for a Vortex PST 1-4X?
Voodoo_Man
08-25-13, 18:51
Forgot to post here.
Got the vx-r patrol 1.25-4x on an larue spr mount.
So far so good, class in sept where I break her in.
http://i.imgur.com/jKs4duP.jpg
I have a perfectly good ACOG and a perfectly good T1 I use on the same rifle. Would I be crazy to ditch those for a Vortex PST 1-4X?
Same position, but I would be getting the VX-R Patrol. I am not sure if I should commit to ditching my TA31F.
No stores around me carry the VX-R Patrol, I looked around today.
What is everyone's opinion on the FOV and reticle in the VX-R vs the ACOG? My plan with the COG was to get sufficient with it up close through practice and classes, but mainly have it as my "SHTF" optic, since it can take abuse. requires no batteries, and it is simple, etc. Can a 1-4x be used for the same role? Are the exposed turrets a concern?
I would probably end up selling my COMP M3 also, since it would no longer be needed if the the 1-4x can cover all the bases.
Voodoo_Man
08-25-13, 19:41
Same position, but I would be getting the VX-R Patrol. I am not sure if I should commit to ditching my TA31F.
No stores around me carry the VX-R Patrol, I looked around today.
What is everyone's opinion on the FOV and reticle in the VX-R vs the ACOG? My plan with the COG was to get sufficient with it up close through practice and classes, but mainly have it as my "SHTF" optic, since it can take abuse. requires no batteries, and it is simple, etc. Can a 1-4x be used for the same role? Are the exposed turrets a concern?
I would probably end up selling my COMP M3 also, since it would no longer be needed if the the 1-4x can cover all the bases.
In my opinion, whatever that is worth, ACOG's were, and are, still very good optics, they will have a steady downturn in sales over the next few years if it has not started already.
This is specifically because variable optics, such as the 1-4x, the 1-6x and to a lesser extent the 1-8x (or a variation of) are getting more and more popular now within MIL/LE communities. This is partially because of the competition market craving variable optics and the price going down so MIL/LE folks can afford to buy them, in comparison to the standard ACOG price (which is slightly more than I am willing to pay for a non-variable optic now a days).
Factor in the availability, price and some users requirement for low magnification/RDS type/style optic, you get what we have now. I went with the VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x specifically because 4x is pretty much all I need in my AO, anything more is just overkill (which is good, but not necessary). The 1.25x is pretty much an RDS for me and its only detractor is the clarity as compared to the Aimpoint Micro I have ran for a while. The 4x magnification will either almost never be used or will only be used if/when I need to discriminate at distance or make precision shots from cover and/or prone and have the time/opportunity to do so.
I had a TA31F-G, I ran it hard and it worked very, very well. For the price that I paid at the time, I could have bought a 1-6x Leupold or something in that range, but the variable optics were up to the same level they are today.
I can definitely see the MIL/LE communities start going to variable optics for rifle applications, its just a matter of time until variable optics are geared toward that cause specifically.
As far as the reticle, yes the ACOG had more to offer than the VX-R, but the Firedot is awesome and if you read the Leupold manual you can get pretty good usage and range estimation from the VX-R. They are, however, two different optics. The VX-R can be an RDS equivalent one moment and a 4x range optic the next.
Mic
Have you noticed any zero changes between the power changes on the 1-6?
I am still pending a range trip to fully evaluate it, including a box test and POI shift with power change.
In my opinion, whatever that is worth, ACOG's were, and are, still very good optics, they will have a steady downturn in sales over the next few years if it has not started already.
This is specifically because variable optics, such as the 1-4x, the 1-6x and to a lesser extent the 1-8x (or a variation of) are getting more and more popular now within MIL/LE communities. This is partially because of the competition market craving variable optics and the price going down so MIL/LE folks can afford to buy them, in comparison to the standard ACOG price (which is slightly more than I am willing to pay for a non-variable optic now a days).
Factor in the availability, price and some users requirement for low magnification/RDS type/style optic, you get what we have now. I went with the VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x specifically because 4x is pretty much all I need in my AO, anything more is just overkill (which is good, but not necessary). The 1.25x is pretty much an RDS for me and its only detractor is the clarity as compared to the Aimpoint Micro I have ran for a while. The 4x magnification will either almost never be used or will only be used if/when I need to discriminate at distance or make precision shots from cover and/or prone and have the time/opportunity to do so.
I had a TA31F-G, I ran it hard and it worked very, very well. For the price that I paid at the time, I could have bought a 1-6x Leupold or something in that range, but the variable optics were up to the same level they are today.
I can definitely see the MIL/LE communities start going to variable optics for rifle applications, its just a matter of time until variable optics are geared toward that cause specifically.
As far as the reticle, yes the ACOG had more to offer than the VX-R, but the Firedot is awesome and if you read the Leupold manual you can get pretty good usage and range estimation from the VX-R. They are, however, two different optics. The VX-R can be an RDS equivalent one moment and a 4x range optic the next.
Thanks. I do not know what decision to make. I guess more shooting will tell me.
My COG was literally, according to email with Trijicon, made February of this year, and I have not abused it all. So for resale, including my GDI mount with it, now would be the best time for me. Like you said, however, who wants an ACOG?
If only I could buy the Leupold and keep the COG. :D
Voodoo_Man
08-25-13, 19:57
Thanks. I do not know what decision to make. I guess more shooting will tell me.
My COG was literally, according to email with Trijicon, made February of this year, and I have not abused it all. So for resale, including my GDI mount with it, now would be the best time for me. Like you said, however, who wants an ACOG?
If only I could buy the Leupold and keep the COG. :D
Shooting the optics is the only way you figure out what works best for you.
For me the T1/H1 was miles better than the ACOG I had. And this VX-R is definitely up there with the T1/H1, I just don't have enough time behind it to give an honest opinion about it, but initial observation gives me a positive idea that it will be.
Also, the VX-R is not really that expensive, I mean, as compared to other optics of the same caliber. I'd suggest saving the scratch and getting it, even if you have both the ACOG and the VX-R.
Also, the VX-R is not really that expensive, I mean, as compared to other optics of the same caliber. I'd suggest saving the scratch and getting it, even if you have both the ACOG and the VX-R.
Yeah, that is true. Winter time is coming, which means the end of perpetual fire season in Southern California, so I can start going to my shooting spot again and really put work in with the ACOG.
By then too, I may have the funds for the VX-R.
Shooting the optics is the only way you figure out what works best for you.
For me the T1/H1 was miles better than the ACOG I had. And this VX-R is definitely up there with the T1/H1, I just don't have enough time behind it to give an honest opinion about it, but initial observation gives me a positive idea that it will be.
Also, the VX-R is not really that expensive, I mean, as compared to other optics of the same caliber. I'd suggest saving the scratch and getting it, even if you have both the ACOG and the VX-R.
Just curious, why the vx-r over the vx-6? Seems the vx-6 gives you true 1x up to 6x with daylight bright reticle.
Voodoo_Man
08-28-13, 19:46
Just curious, why the vx-r over the vx-6? Seems the vx-6 gives you true 1x up to 6x with daylight bright reticle.
No real reason, I've shot the VX-6 once, I don't really think its worth $1000, maybe $700. Maybe I'll eventually buy one, but I honestly have no use for a 6x optic in my AO.
Whoever quoted you a grand for a VX-6 is on crack. You can get them for a tick over $800 shipped. That puts the pricing in line with Trijicon TR24's and several other well thought of 4x rector scopes.
On a side note; the best 1-4x I've ever seen or owned for someone on an extreme budget is a Nikon 1-4x monarch African. I got one of those back when I didn't know if I'd dig the whole variable scope thing.
Voodoo_Man
08-29-13, 06:11
Maybe the price was too high, the one I was quoted, I have not seem then in the $800 range.
Even still, A buddy of mine has a USO 1-6. Its an awesome optic, but the 6x is just overkill for me and though the 1x is very nice, its just too much optic for what I need. That might sound bad, but its truth, I don't want to go overboard on getting an optic that is not going to get utilized to its full potential, and knowing my AO, shooting habits and general use purpose of my rifle, the 1.25-4x is just right.
Voodoo_Man
08-29-13, 08:18
What is your AO?
A very large city in the US.
MajorLonghorn
08-29-13, 16:29
What is your AO?
Adjustable Objective?
theblackknight
08-30-13, 01:28
What is your AO?
Use human speak please.
No real reason, I've shot the VX-6 once, I don't really think its worth $1000, maybe $700. Maybe I'll eventually buy one, but I honestly have no use for a 6x optic in my AO.
in terms of use at 1x, how did it rank against the vx-r? Im talking eyebox, and basically ease of use, speed, how did it feel?
I'm pretty set on the vxr, but im not ruling out the vx-6 quite yet, and I'd like to hear more. If you didn't have enough experience to really say, I get that.
wild_wild_wes
08-30-13, 13:59
Pretty much all the 1-6 optics are significantly heavier than the 1-4s, correct?
Pretty much all the 1-6 optics are significantly heavier than the 1-4s, correct?
not really. sure they have to be heavier by design but it's a matter of ounces in some of them but that can be worked out.
one example is the SWFA SS 1-4 and 1-6. spec sheet says 17.5 for the 1-4 and 22.4 for the 1-6. that's 5 ounces, right?..
however that weight includes the covered turret knobs on the 1-6. apples to apples, running it without the covers and the thread protectors instead, drops a couple ounces. the extra 3 ounces is a tradeoff I'm willing to make for the increased range and precision of the 1-6...
Singlestack Wonder
08-31-13, 09:23
Pretty much all the 1-6 optics are significantly heavier than the 1-4s, correct?
The Leupold MK 1-6X is the exception at 17 oz.
Voodoo_Man
09-01-13, 06:52
in terms of use at 1x, how did it rank against the vx-r? Im talking eyebox, and basically ease of use, speed, how did it feel?
I'm pretty set on the vxr, but im not ruling out the vx-6 quite yet, and I'd like to hear more. If you didn't have enough experience to really say, I get that.
So a buddy of mine has a 1-6 USOptics, I don't remember the exact model designation. That thing is beast of an optic and awesome on many different levels. I actually eye-****ed it last night at the range.
At 1x the 1.25x of the VXR is very comparable. For me, at least, the VXR at 1.25x is very fast and has a generous amount of "eyebox" space.
In two weeks I'll be puttin it through its paces at a class so I'll review it afterwards.
Area of Operations
Yeah, I know what AO means. I was going for something else there.
Singlestack Wonder
09-01-13, 17:35
The thread name needs changed to " 1-6 Variable optic options"
The thread name needs changed to " 1-6 Variable optic options"
or 1-X...
I would also agree that this should be changed to the "1-X optics" thread. Since this thread began, there are a lot more good optics available outside the 1-4 range now, even up to the 1-7, 1-8 and 1-10 ranges.
in terms of use at 1x, how did it rank against the vx-r? Im talking eyebox, and basically ease of use, speed, how did it feel?
I'm pretty set on the vxr, but im not ruling out the vx-6 quite yet, and I'd like to hear more. If you didn't have enough experience to really say, I get that.
The VX-6 has a very generous eyebox, very easy to use. Where it really stands out is at 6X - it is easily more forgiving than the TR24 I have at 4X. In terms of speed, for me, a true 1X will always be faster than a 1.25 or 1.5, no matter what reticle or illumination.
It is indeed light at 14 oz as well, no weight penalty. It does cost significantly more though, unfortunately.
The USO stuff is nice but its heavy! I lust after a SR8 1-8 for my 18" 308 AR build...
Anyone notice that the Mk6's CMR-W landing strip / tree seems to be asymmetric distances from the center line? Is there a reason for that?
OneAsterisks
09-08-13, 01:09
For a while now I have been wanting to go to a 1-4x24 optic, initially I had my sights on a the Burris setup due to the LEO discount they offer. I later found out Vortex makes an optic and now Bushnell, though I may be late on the train. Oh well.
Burris MTac - Vortex PST - Bushnell AR223
Is bushnell even considered to be next to the other 2 brands?
Assuming all setups will have a QD mount ($100+) which and why would you go with it? Everything is budget minded but not limited.
SeriousStudent
09-08-13, 01:13
Merging with already existing thread on this topic.
For a while now I have been wanting to go to a 1-4x24 optic, initially I had my sights on a the Burris setup due to the LEO discount they offer. I later found out Vortex makes an optic and now Bushnell, though I may be late on the train. Oh well.
Burris MTac - Vortex PST - Bushnell AR223
Is bushnell even considered to be next to the other 2 brands?
Assuming all setups will have a QD mount ($100+) which and why would you go with it? Everything is budget minded but not limited.
No experience with the bushnell, but the Vortex is my choice of the other two, and its not even close.
OneAsterisks
09-08-13, 01:17
No experience with the bushnell, but the Vortex is my choice of the other two, and its not even close.
Bushnell is considerably cheaper than the other two, non-illuminated.
I believe depending where you buy the Mtac and PST have about $20-35 difference, if battle was between the burris and Vortex, id be heading vortex.
Anyone notice that the Mk6's CMR-W landing strip / tree seems to be asymmetric distances from the center line? Is there a reason for that?
In addition to this question, I wanted to add that the CMR-W reticle has an amazing variety of units of measure. The horizontal stadia are in miliradians. The size of the horseshoe and center dot is in MOA. The bullet drop is in meters. The wind speed is in miles per hour.
Singlestack Wonder
09-08-13, 11:28
Anyone notice that the Mk6's CMR-W landing strip / tree seems to be asymmetric distances from the center line? Is there a reason for that?
Yes. Those are windage holdoffs. As the distance increases, so does the lead.
BUOPtimus Prime
09-08-13, 11:34
Yeah, I know what AO means. I was going for something else there.
It was an optics funny.
thopkins22
09-08-13, 12:34
I don't know about the AR223 or whatever(at that price I assume it's cheaply built,) but the Bushnell Elite and Elite Tactical lines show that they have stepped their game WAY up. They are now putting out legitimately solid and well built optics that compete with the big boys at similar price points.
You should not be seeing any POI shift between powers on a good SFP scope.
Pat
From the reviews I have read on sfp scopes under 1k (leupold, xtr, accupoint ) have all had POI shifts.
I haven't seen a post or review on the meopta zd or nxs where they test power changes though.
(1k is my budget)
Alaskapopo
09-12-13, 01:18
From the reviews I have read on sfp scopes under 1k (leupold, xtr, accupoint ) have all had POI shifts.
I haven't seen a post or review on the meopta zd or nxs where they test power changes though.
(1k is my budget)
I have not experienced this and I own and have owned several Accupoints and and currently also own a Swarovski Z6i and a 1-6 Vortex Razor 2. Where did you read this?
Pat
I have not experienced this and I own and have owned several Accupoints and and currently also own a Swarovski Z6i and a 1-6 Vortex Razor 2. Where did you read this?
Pat
Ill try to find them and post links. On the high end scopes I haven't seen/ read about the poi shifts on the say $800 and under mostly. I stay away from the 1k+ 1-4 scopes (no by choice, wife would kill me)
MountainRaven
09-19-13, 22:53
Anybody have any experience with the Leupold Mark 6 1-6? I assume that since the 3-18 was good enough for USSOCOM, the 1-6 should be good to go, too.
(Looking for a low-power magnified optic for my carbine and have narrowed it down to either the Leupy Mk6 or a Trijicon TA31-ECOS-G. I'm sure that the Leupy is the better option, I'm just not entirely sure that it is a ~$200 better option than the ACOG. [~$100 price difference on the scope, ~$100 price difference on LT mounts for same.])
Anybody have any experience with the Leupold Mark 6 1-6? I assume that since the 3-18 was good enough for USSOCOM, the 1-6 should be good to go, too.
(Looking for a low-power magnified optic for my carbine and have narrowed it down to either the Leupy Mk6 or a Trijicon TA31-ECOS-G. I'm sure that the Leupy is the better option, I'm just not entirely sure that it is a ~$200 better option than the ACOG. [~$100 price difference on the scope, ~$100 price difference on LT mounts for same.])
Yeah - a lot carries over, but the expectations for a 1-6x optic are still a bit above the reasonable cost/feature set that a lot of people want. It's a very good 1x optic without illumination, which makes it less deal-breaking when the dot is a bit head position dependent. At 2-4x zoom it works really well (if you're partial to the inverted christmas tree reticles and FFP reticles - which I am).
I have mine on the LT135-34m, (to run over a DBAL), and I consider it comfortably head and shoulders above any ACOG option. My TA31 is close on performance at 4x - then I turn the magnification knob and the Mk6 more than makes up for the weight differential.
I just replaced the Vortex 1-4 with a SWFA SS 1-6 on my 16" Noveske Recce. The SS is a slick optic and I'm really digging the FFP reticle design.
Before the SS, I tried various optics on this gun. Starting with ACOG TA11 (not precision enough, non-variable), moved to Leupold Mk4 1.5-5 (hated mil-reticle with MOA turrets), then Vortex PST 1-4 (wanted higher end magnification).
For me, the SS is a perfect fit for my multi-use, mid-range gun.
MountainRaven
09-24-13, 22:47
Yeah - a lot carries over, but the expectations for a 1-6x optic are still a bit above the reasonable cost/feature set that a lot of people want. It's a very good 1x optic without illumination, which makes it less deal-breaking when the dot is a bit head position dependent. At 2-4x zoom it works really well (if you're partial to the inverted christmas tree reticles and FFP reticles - which I am).
I have mine on the LT135-34m, (to run over a DBAL), and I consider it comfortably head and shoulders above any ACOG option. My TA31 is close on performance at 4x - then I turn the magnification knob and the Mk6 more than makes up for the weight differential.
Thanks!
I played with one at the LGS and I think I was actually faster on target - had an easier time putting the centers of the reticle on the bad thing - (with the plastic Leupold AR-thing that it was attached to) with the scope at 2x than with it at 1x. At least when it's not illuminated (theirs didn't have a battery in it).
Voodoo_Man
10-07-13, 13:38
Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x20 (Firedot) on LaRue SPR LT104 Mount review
http://vdmsr.blogspot.com/2013/10/leupold-vx-r-patrol-125-4x20-firedot-on.html
Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x20 (Firedot) on LaRue SPR LT104 Mount review
http://vdmsr.blogspot.com/2013/10/leupold-vx-r-patrol-125-4x20-firedot-on.html
Outstanding review my man! Now where can I get one for... lets say a good price? LT mount is always gtg.
Voodoo_Man
10-10-13, 12:44
Outstanding review my man! Now where can I get one for... lets say a good price? LT mount is always gtg.
Thanks, I'd suggest waiting to see if you can get one used or on the cheap from a website - black friday is coming up ;)
crusher613
10-18-13, 19:18
Just wanted to say thanks to the people who have shared the experience here. I have just ordered a Vortex PST 1-4 based on the information and views expressed hear. I will edit to post pictures once it arrives.
Is the VCOG out yet?
If it is I can't find one anywhere. The reticle choices look promising although the published weight seems a bit heavy.
Sent from my Torque using Tapatalk
I know 1-6's are all the rage, but IMO the Vortex Viper pst 1-4 capped turrets is the best low power variable on the market. It's glass is super clear, the reticle is easy to use and the price is to hard to beat
Anybody have any experience with the Leupold Mark 6 1-6? I assume that since the 3-18 was good enough for USSOCOM, the 1-6 should be good to go, too.
(Looking for a low-power magnified optic for my carbine and have narrowed it down to either the Leupy Mk6 or a Trijicon TA31-ECOS-G. I'm sure that the Leupy is the better option, I'm just not entirely sure that it is a ~$200 better option than the ACOG. [~$100 price difference on the scope, ~$100 price difference on LT mounts for same.])
I used the Mark 6 1-6 all this year for 3gun. It's a rugged optic, but I'm back to using vortex scopes. Lighter, just as rugged and for me, they seem clearer and easier to use. I've got 2 of the 1-4 MOA Capped Vortex PST's now.
I used the Mark 6 1-6 all this year for 3gun. It's a rugged optic, but I'm back to using vortex scopes. Lighter, just as rugged and for me, they seem clearer and easier to use. I've got 2 of the 1-4 MOA Capped Vortex PST's now.
If it was SFP and used a AA battery with more powerful illumination, it'd be more awesome.
crusher613
10-18-13, 23:05
I've heard that the PST may not be a good 3-gun scope because of the eye relief and having to maintain a constant cheek weld. Have you noticed anything like this in using the scope? I will be using mine primarily for a patrol rifle but also for two gun matches.
I used the Mark 6 1-6 all this year for 3gun. It's a rugged optic, but I'm back to using vortex scopes. Lighter, just as rugged and for me, they seem clearer and easier to use. I've got 2 of the 1-4 MOA Capped Vortex PST's now.
I've heard that the PST may not be a good 3-gun scope because of the eye relief and having to maintain a constant cheek weld. Have you noticed anything like this in using the scope? I will be using mine primarily for a patrol rifle but also for two gun matches.
Who ever told you that is a moron. Before switching to the Mark 6, all I used was the PST.
I had the Leupold mark AR duplex reticle in 1.5-4x20 and it was nice and light but I wish I got the heavier Nikon with a bdc reticle or a scope with a larger tube and better field of view.
crusher613
10-19-13, 01:41
The Leupold Mark AR mod 1 with SPR firedot reticle was a close runner up for me. In the end I heard the glass and quality on the Vortex PST was on par with many scopes in the 800-1000 range plus I preferred the reticle of the Vortex.
Another vote for the PST. Shot a Leup AR that a friend has, and dropped the scoots for the PST. Threw it on my new 6.8, took it to the range, and now my friend is trying to buy the PST off of me!
crusher613
10-23-13, 21:53
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv125/heritage755/IMG_20131023_224920_295_zps8ed723c3.jpg (http://s676.photobucket.com/user/heritage755/media/IMG_20131023_224920_295_zps8ed723c3.jpg.html)
Teaser photo. Im pretty excited so far. Cant wait to mount it and shoot it tomorrow hopefully.
It’s been a long time since I’ve posted in this thread. Months ago I decided on the Leopold VX-R 1.25-4 with the FireDot reticule or the Vortex Viper PST 1-4 MOA reticule. I live remotely, so I only got to a place I could look at scopes this week. The salesman could not tell me what reticule was in the Leopold, which was a bummer for me. Also, the Viper was sold out, so I could not look at it. The reticule in the Leopold seemed like it was the FireDot reticule going from memory of pictures I’ve seen of it, but it was awful small and hard to see. It seems like I’ve seen comments on that here before.
How do the reticules of the Vortex compare to the Leopold?
crusher613
10-30-13, 16:35
I had the chance to handle the VX-R Patrol 1-4 with Firedot reticle before purchasing a Vortex PST 1-4. I liked the Leupold except the cycle for turning it on and off. I prefer the turn style switch on the Vortex.
I also prefer the reticle on the Vortex over the Leupold because it had the broken circle around the center dot. Im new to magnified optics and currently shoot an Aimpoint on my other rifle, so maybe Im less educated. For close in silhouette targets I like the circle and for longer shots can focus on the center dot.
I also got a better deal on the Vortex and Im really happy with my choice so far.
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv125/heritage755/IMG_20131030_173716_946_zps2b3b13b1.jpg (http://s676.photobucket.com/user/heritage755/media/IMG_20131030_173716_946_zps2b3b13b1.jpg.html)
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv125/heritage755/IMG_20131030_173731_603_zps5eb31700.jpg (http://s676.photobucket.com/user/heritage755/media/IMG_20131030_173731_603_zps5eb31700.jpg.html)
I had the chance to handle the VX-R Patrol 1-4 with Firedot reticle before purchasing a Vortex PST 1-4. I liked the Leupold except the cycle for turning it on and off. I prefer the turn style switch on the Vortex.
I also prefer the reticle on the Vortex over the Leupold because it had the broken circle around the center dot. Im new to magnified optics and currently shoot an Aimpoint on my other rifle, so maybe Im less educated. For close in silhouette targets I like the circle and for longer shots can focus on the center dot.
I also got a better deal on the Vortex and Im really happy with my choice so far.
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv125/heritage755/IMG_20131030_173716_946_zps2b3b13b1.jpg (http://s676.photobucket.com/user/heritage755/media/IMG_20131030_173716_946_zps2b3b13b1.jpg.html)
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv125/heritage755/IMG_20131030_173731_603_zps5eb31700.jpg (http://s676.photobucket.com/user/heritage755/media/IMG_20131030_173731_603_zps5eb31700.jpg.html)
+1 on the Vxr patrol, I'm ok with the switch and the reticle on this scope but I haven't tried the vortex he speaks of.
When I looked at the Leopold VX-R the other day, the reticle seemed to be awful small, and the hash marks almost impossible to see. They did not have the Vortex Viper in stock, so I could not look at it, but did find some video on YouTube that showed the reticle of the Vortex pretty well. It also looked very small and hard to see. Why are the reticles in these scopes so small?
I made an overnight trip just to look at these two scopes, but they were out of the Vortex so I could not. Would love to see a side by side photo of the reticles of these two scopes if anyone has one they would be willing to share.
I have a Mark AR Mod 1 1.5-4x with the SPR / Firedot combo.
I think the eye box and reticle is easy to see, much better than a Mark 4 MR/T 1.5-5x I owned briefly. I hated that thing from the day I got it, so glad I traded it away.
The reticle is definitely not as well thought out and usable as the PST 1-4x, since the SPR only gives you indications at 2.5 mil increments.
However, I like it as long distance shots down in FL are hard to come by and with a 100 yd zero, I just put the dot on the target from 25-250.
I have been thinking about trying a capped 1-4x PST lately, we'll see however.
When I looked at the Leopold VX-R the other day, the reticle seemed to be awful small, and the hash marks almost impossible to see. They did not have the Vortex Viper in stock, so I could not look at it, but did find some video on YouTube that showed the reticle of the Vortex pretty well. It also looked very small and hard to see. Why are the reticles in these scopes so small?
Wingspar,
I thought the same thing (small reticle, hashmarks hard to see) until I adjusted the scope for my 51y/o eyes and then took it (Loopy 1.5-5) outside and used it at distance. YMMV
Keith
Wingspar,
I thought the same thing (small reticle, hashmarks hard to see) until I adjusted the scope for my 51y/o eyes and then took it (Loopy 1.5-5) outside and used it at distance. YMMV
Keith
Did not know you could do that. Did the adjustment make the reticle larger and easier to see?
I wonder if the Vortex Viper has the same adjustment?
Did not know you could do that. Did the adjustment make the reticle larger and easier to see?
I wonder if the Vortex Viper has the same adjustment?
My 2.5-10 does
My 2.5-10 does
What is the adjustment called?
I know from looking at the Leopold last week that the reticle looks nothing like the pictures I’ve seen. The pictures show a great reticle, and in hand, the reticle is tiny and too small for my eyes. I’m leaning towards the Vortex, but I hate making this purchase without actually seeing one.
Wingspar the adjustment is at the ocular (eyepiece) end of the scope. In my case I had to back out the adjustment. Good luck on your search.
Keith
Rockhopper
11-07-13, 01:06
you guys are talking about two different kinds of adjustments. dont confuse the poor chap.
wingspar:
keith is referring to adjusting the occular lens of the scope to bring the reticle in focus. and jmnielson is talking about the first focal plane 2.5-10x32. (great optic btw)
you cannot make the reticle bigger on the optic you are referring to as it is sfp
Georgie Boy
11-07-13, 01:32
2moa and .5mil hash marks are always going to be tiny at 4 power.
If they went to 5moa/1mil hash marks, they'd be easier to see but not as useful.
Did not know you could do that. Did the adjustment make the reticle larger and easier to see?
you guys are talking about two different kinds of adjustments. dont confuse the poor chap.
wingspar:
keith is referring to adjusting the occular lens of the scope to bring the reticle in focus. and jmnielson is talking about the first focal plane 2.5-10x32. (great optic btw)
you cannot make the reticle bigger on the optic you are referring to as it is sfp
Wingspar,
The adjustment that I'm referring to is what Rockhopper references. It would be like going from THIS to THIS which again is required for my seasoned eyes. There's no actual enlarging of the reticle, just a thickening if you will. I hope this makes it a lighter shade of mud.
Keith
you guys are talking about two different kinds of adjustments. dont confuse the poor chap.
wingspar:
keith is referring to adjusting the occular lens of the scope to bring the reticle in focus. and jmnielson is talking about the first focal plane 2.5-10x32. (great optic btw)
you cannot make the reticle bigger on the optic you are referring to as it is sfp
Wingspar,
The adjustment that I'm referring to is what Rockhopper references. It would be like going from THIS to THIS which again is required for my seasoned eyes. There's no actual enlarging of the reticle, just a thickening if you will. I hope this makes it a lighter shade of mud.
Keith
Thanks for clearing that up. I’m now starting to think that a 1-4 scope may not be what I want and may just skip the idea of a scope on my AR and just leave the iron sights on. I sure do wish there was a way to look at these things. The manufacturers pictures of the reticles are nothing like what I saw in person. The reticle on the Leopold is impossible to see, and I have no way of looking at the Vortex.
Thanks for clearing that up. I’m now starting to think that a 1-4 scope may not be what I want and may just skip the idea of a scope on my AR and just leave the iron sights on. I sure do wish there was a way to look at these things. The manufacturers pictures of the reticles are nothing like what I saw in person. The reticle on the Leopold is impossible to see, and I have no way of looking at the Vortex.
I've used both the Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4 and Vortex PST 1-4 with capped turrets. If you thought the Leupold reticle was difficult to see, then you'll probably be even more unhappy with the Vortex, as the vertical/horizontal lines and moa markings are even thinner. The four semi circle brackets around the center dot may help depending on how you look at/through the reticle, but I personally found the Leupold much easier to use. Plus, the Leupold's illumination is actually daylight bright, whereas the Vortex illumination is only usable on cloudy days or in the evening/night.
I've used both the Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4 and Vortex PST 1-4 with capped turrets. If you thought the Leupold reticle was difficult to see, then you'll probably be even more unhappy with the Vortex, as the vertical/horizontal lines and moa markings are even thinner. The four semi circle brackets around the center dot may help depending on how you look at/through the reticle, but I personally found the Leupold much easier to use. Plus, the Leupold's illumination is actually daylight bright, whereas the Vortex illumination is only usable on cloudy days or in the evening/night.
Well, maybe some day I’ll get to look at a Vortex, but at this point in time, I’ve pretty much written a scope for my AR off. For $200 I’d take a chance with one of those scopes, but for $500. Probably not. Maybe there is a cheaper scope that would hold zero for around $200 that has a better reticle?
Can someone please talk me out of the NF 1-4.... I keep coming back to this thread for a long while now.
The minute I buy it the 1-6 is surely to come out :(
BrigandTwoFour
12-04-13, 22:30
Can someone please talk me out of the NF 1-4.... I keep coming back to this thread for a long while now.
The minute I buy it the 1-6 is surely to come out :(
Just go for it. The minute you buy anything, the latest and greatest comes out to replace it. If it doesn't meet your needs, then I'm sure you can sell it for a pretty good return and buy the 1-6x
Can someone please talk me out of the NF 1-4.... I keep coming back to this thread for a long while now.
The minute I buy it the 1-6 is surely to come out :(
What does the NF do that a Vortex doesn't at 1/3 the cost?
The reticle is pretty nice and it has NF on the turrets? Honesty sucks sometimes.
I was also looking at the USO sr8c optic as well but am trying to stomach the extra $1000 bump in price for 2x more power. Swfa and vortex make good stuff but I'm just ready to make the move and do it one time in my life and be done :)
Delta_Elite
12-05-13, 05:35
Can someone please talk me out of the NF 1-4.... I keep coming back to this thread for a long while now.
The minute I buy it the 1-6 is surely to come out :(b
I thought the same thing but I bought the NF NXS 1-4 with zerostop anyway. I was not disappointed with my purchase. If they come out with a 1-6 I'll buy that too.
I'm looking at the PA 1-6x right now. Just ordered their micro red dot so we will see how their quality is. Good reviews, so high hopes.
Can someone please talk me out of the NF 1-4.... I keep coming back to this thread for a long while now.
The minute I buy it the 1-6 is surely to come out :(
In low power variables I currently own: Leupold VXIII 1.5-5 (30mm Illuminated Circle Dot); Trijicon Accupoint TR24G 1-4; US Optics SN-4 1-4. I also had a TR21 1.5-4, but sold it.
I'm going to sell the Leupold and USO, but keeping the Accupoint.
If Trijicon made a 1-6 Accupoint I'd sell all three to buy it. If they made a 1-8 I'd sell blood to get one.
Regarding the Accupoint....
I would like to see more reticle options (especially the Horseshoe). I have the H reticle in my TA11's, and it is by far the best reticle I've used (for my purposes). I suspect a FFP would be interesting, but I can't get use to the reticle size changing in my USO...and I prefer a simple ranging feature (like the Horseshoe) anyway.
superstratjunky
12-19-13, 19:22
Lots of great info here. Thanks fellas.
jerrysimons
12-26-13, 12:59
Why no 1x4 with RDS like 1x and superior optical quality?
I may be out of my league here, but there seems to be a gap in the variable 1x optic market. After reading bigjimfish's review of the USO SR8c it seems the straining for the holy grail of variable optics with vast power ranges, RDS like speed at true 1x (and the optical compromises to do so) has resulted in skipping over truly perfecting the RDS like concept in a variable 1x4. Perhaps I am naive in thinking that USOs succes in incorperating true SFP RDS technology in their FFP 1x8 varible optic scope could be done in an 1x4 or even 1x6 with less compromise in optical clarity and ease of use (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/421244_The_variable__low_power_multipurpose_scope_review_thread.html&page=27).
Though I recognize there is not much need for a dual focal plan RDS like illuminated scope if you are not going to have magnification high enough to take advantage of a FFP reticle. But where are the 1x4 scopes with true 1x RDS like illumination, great optical quality, durability, and user friendly eyebox and eye relief, at a mid level price? SFP would be fine at this power range but all of the 1x4 scopes I have seen like the Vortex PST and Nightforce Compact are set up like miniature target scopes and do not have daylight visible illumination, much less a red dot.
Basically I want a true 1x RDS like, daylight visible dot in a low variable power lightweight scope with capped turrets, that can be used for target ID at regular carbine distances and to simply dial up the magnification a little for longer shoots out to around 400yds. Basically the way a RDS with flip to side magnifier would be used but in one scope and maybe with a simple reticle to aid at distance.
The Swarovski Z6i with BRT-1 or Circle dot seems to fit the bill but that is way up there in price and no one has really been able to say if they are up the the durability of a duty scope (which goes for the Leupolds bellow as well).
The Leupold VX6 w/ spr firedot reticle is close but as bigjimfish notes has radial distortion at 1x and stupid reticle graduations at 2.5mils each.
The Leupold VRX 1.25x4 w/ firedot reticle is close but is not quite true 1x and the same dumb graduations in the reticle.
This leaves me with the Trijicon TR24 w/ triangle but that dang triangle, while easily visible in daylight, is too big and cumbersome at distance.
Any other options out there that I have missed?
Why no 1x4 with RDS like 1x and superior optical quality?
I may be out of my league here, but there seems to be a gap in the variable 1x optic market. After reading bigjimfish's review of the USO SR8c it seems the straining for the holy grail of variable optics with vast power ranges, RDS like speed at true 1x (and the optical compromises to do so) has resulted in skipping over truly perfecting the RDS like concept in a variable 1x4. Perhaps I am naive in thinking that USOs succes in incorperating true SFP RDS technology in their FFP 1x8 varible optic scope could be done in an 1x4 or even 1x6 with less compromise in optical clarity and ease of use (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/421244_The_variable__low_power_multipurpose_scope_review_thread.html&page=27).
Though I recognize there is not much need for a dual focal plan RDS like illuminated scope if you are not going to have magnification high enough to take advantage of a FFP reticle. But where are the 1x4 scopes with true 1x RDS like illumination, great optical quality, durability, and user friendly eyebox and eye relief, at a mid level price? SFP would be fine at this power range but all of the 1x4 scopes I have seen like the Vortex PST and Nightforce Compact are set up like miniature target scopes and do not have daylight visible illumination, much less a red dot.
Basically I want a true 1x RDS like, daylight visible dot in a low variable power lightweight scope with capped turrets, that can be used for target ID at regular carbine distances and to simply dial up the magnification a little for longer shoots out to around 400yds. Basically the way a RDS with flip to side magnifier would be used but in one scope and maybe with a simple reticle to aid at distance.
The Swarovski Z6i with BRT-1 or Circle dot seems to fit the bill but that is way up there in price and no one has really been able to say if they are up the the durability of a duty scope (which goes for the Leupolds bellow as well).
The Leupold VX6 w/ spr firedot reticle is close but as bigjimfish notes has radial distortion at 1x and stupid reticle graduations at 2.5mils each.
The Leupold VRX 1.25x4 w/ firedot reticle is close but is not quite true 1x and the same dumb graduations in the reticle.
This leaves me with the Trijicon TR24 w/ triangle but that dang triangle, while easily visible in daylight, is too big and cumbersome at distance.
Any other options out there that I have missed?
I agree completely.
I am not sure if it would save money but this is what I'd want:
1x/4x scope, with a reticle just like the Leupold SPR, but with a different Mill set up.
The reticle just needs a bright red dot in the middle at a true 1x. Then, all it needs is a usable reticle at 4x. I never use 2x-3x. If I am going to use magnification I go straight to the 4x.
"I never use 2x-3x. If I am going to use magnification I go straight to the 4x." Maybe the solution is a scope that just flips from 1 to 4 with a lever, cleanly separating the 2. Doesn't the elcan work this way? I was sold on the Vortex PST 1-4 until I learned that the red circle is not daylight visible.
jerrysimons
12-26-13, 14:25
"I never use 2x-3x. If I am going to use magnification I go straight to the 4x." Maybe the solution is a scope that just flips from 1 to 4 with a lever, cleanly separating the 2. Doesn't the elcan work this way? I was sold on the Vortex PST 1-4 until I learned that the red circle is not daylight visible.
You know that might be the solution for 1x4, optical quality could be maximized for the two magnifications. Surely someone can make a better setup than elcan did. Though for 1x6 I think a range would be better.
I suppose I passed over the Vortex Razor HD II 1x6 which does fit the parameters i am going for but for the weight of the thing and the use I intend, I would gladly give up 2x magnification to save almost 1 pound in weight.
Why no 1x4 with RDS like 1x and superior optical quality?
I may be out of my league here, but there seems to be a gap in the variable 1x optic market. After reading bigjimfish's review of the USO SR8c it seems the straining for the holy grail of variable optics with vast power ranges, RDS like speed at true 1x (and the optical compromises to do so) has resulted in skipping over truly perfecting the RDS like concept in a variable 1x4. Perhaps I am naive in thinking that USOs succes in incorperating true SFP RDS technology in their FFP 1x8 varible optic scope could be done in an 1x4 or even 1x6 with less compromise in optical clarity and ease of use (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/421244_The_variable__low_power_multipurpose_scope_review_thread.html&page=27).
Though I recognize there is not much need for a dual focal plan RDS like illuminated scope if you are not going to have magnification high enough to take advantage of a FFP reticle. But where are the 1x4 scopes with true 1x RDS like illumination, great optical quality, durability, and user friendly eyebox and eye relief, at a mid level price? SFP would be fine at this power range but all of the 1x4 scopes I have seen like the Vortex PST and Nightforce Compact are set up like miniature target scopes and do not have daylight visible illumination, much less a red dot.
Basically I want a true 1x RDS like, daylight visible dot in a low variable power lightweight scope with capped turrets, that can be used for target ID at regular carbine distances and to simply dial up the magnification a little for longer shoots out to around 400yds. Basically the way a RDS with flip to side magnifier would be used but in one scope and maybe with a simple reticle to aid at distance.
The Swarovski Z6i with BRT-1 or Circle dot seems to fit the bill but that is way up there in price and no one has really been able to say if they are up the the durability of a duty scope (which goes for the Leupolds bellow as well).
The Leupold VX6 w/ spr firedot reticle is close but as bigjimfish notes has radial distortion at 1x and stupid reticle graduations at 2.5mils each.
The Leupold VRX 1.25x4 w/ firedot reticle is close but is not quite true 1x and the same dumb graduations in the reticle.
This leaves me with the Trijicon TR24 w/ triangle but that dang triangle, while easily visible in daylight, is too big and cumbersome at distance.
Any other options out there that I have missed?
I've said it before - the price of admission is high but for me it's very much worth it. The Z6i does what you want. I've not taken mine OCONUS for a true wartime test, but I don't baby it. I'd put it on my duty rifle if I was permitted.
During a Frank Proctor class earlier this year, I switched from a rifle with a T-1 to the rifle with my Z6i and was instantly reminded why it's so great! The FOV is incredible at 1x and I was faster in target to target transitions despite the rifle being heavier. Consider using your tax return to get one (that's what I did) and I believe you'll be very pleased.
jerrysimons
12-26-13, 18:17
I've said it before - the price of admission is high but for me it's very much worth it. The Z6i does what you want. I've not taken mine OCONUS for a true wartime test, but I don't baby it. I'd put it on my duty rifle if I was permitted.
During a Frank Proctor class earlier this year, I switched from a rifle with a T-1 to the rifle with my Z6i and was instantly reminded why it's so great! The FOV is incredible at 1x and I was faster in target to target transitions despite the rifle being heavier. Consider using your tax return to get one (that's what I did) and I believe you'll be very pleased.
Well, I probably will end up with the Z6i, glad to hear you trust it so much! That 127ft@100yd fov on 1x sounds phenomenal!
There still is a gap in the market as far as I am concerned. I would be happy with a proportionally lightweight 1x4 with similar features for half or 1/3rd the price of the Z6i. Many companies have something close but drop the ball on one thing or another. What Zane said about adding mil hashes to the VRX firedot would be a good start for the price with room for higher quality, true 1x versions for more dough.
I just don't get why it hasn't been done yet. Certainly I am not the only one who wants such a set up. USO has proven optics tech is capable of great advances, I just wish the industry would prefect the 1x4 concept while straining at the holy grail variable optics, which at this point is just a bag of compromises.
Have you taken a look at the Valdada IOR Pitbull ?
It's a 1x/4x with massive field of view at 1x.
http://www.valdada.com/1-4x32-qr-ts-35mm-pitbull-compact-scope-w-cqb-illuminated-reticle-307
I haven't seen one around these parts, but sounds about like what you are talking about. The spec sheet doesn't seem to mention if it is FFP or SFP, and I don't know if it is daylight bright.
With wind-chill on Sunday it was in the low single digits. When I tried to turn the dot on in my VX-R Patrol, the button would not work. Thinking my hands were too cold, I handed it to two other people, both them said the same thing.
Anyone else experience this in cold temperatures?
I have a VX-6, and it worked just fine at 20F for several hours this past weekend. It did flicker briefly when I first turned it on but it had a loose battery cap. It has a very similar illumination system to the VX-R, so I would check the battery/cap first...
I have a VX-6, and it worked just fine at 20F for several hours this past weekend. It did flicker briefly when I first turned it on but it had a loose battery cap. It has a very similar illumination system to the VX-R, so I would check the battery/cap first...
I checked it when we got inside and it turned on.
Next time I will turn on the scope before hand, then try to turn it off.
With wind-chill on Sunday it was in the low single digits. When I tried to turn the dot on in my VX-R Patrol, the button would not work. Thinking my hands were too cold, I handed it to two other people, both them said the same thing.
Anyone else experience this in cold temperatures?
I used mine deer hunting this year, temps ranged from single digits too below zero with windchill, and I had zero issues. I have the standard VX-R and not the patrol version, if it makes a difference.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
jerrysimons
01-01-14, 14:50
Have you taken a look at the Valdada IOR Pitbull ?
It's a 1x/4x with massive field of view at 1x.
http://www.valdada.com/1-4x32-qr-ts-35mm-pitbull-compact-scope-w-cqb-illuminated-reticle-307
I haven't seen one around these parts, but sounds about like what you are talking about. The spec sheet doesn't seem to mention if it is FFP or SFP, and I don't know if it is daylight bright.
It seems you can count on one hand the number of manufactures that have a red dot likevariable that are truly daylight bright at 1x. Swarovski, Kahles, S&B, Vortex Razor HD, Leoupold VX-R and VX-6; am I missing any?
That Pitbull is interesting but a little odd. Curious if it is daylight bright as claimed. The reticle sounds good (why no pic on the web site?). The scope is chunky for a 4 power, 23oz and 35mm main tube? The eye relief and eyebox at 4x don't strike me as being as good as they could be.
For all of my complaining, I think I found the one. It doesn't fill the gap I see in the market in terms of price and 1-4 vs 1-4+ as it perhapse relates to optical quality, and it is a little more magnification then what I felt would be needed, but it looks like one heck of an optic.
The Kahles k16i 1-6x24 SM2: daylight bright 2moa red dot with a simple mil-scale under it, huge FOV, supposed to be ultra clear, same eye relief as the Swaro Z6i, capped turrets, 16.9oz.
Sportoptics.com helped me decide between the SM1 and SM2. Chris said the SM1 may be better if primarily shooting at distance with more reference points in the two circles (9moa unilluminated and 18moa illuminated) around the smaller 1moa dot. The SM2 with 2moa dot being better suited for shooting within 200yds like a RDS with some magnification and the mil scale for the occasional distance shot.
jerrysimons
01-18-14, 11:27
Meopta Meostar R1r 1-4x22 ZD
http://www.sportoptics.com/meopta-meostar-528210.aspx
http://www.cstactical.com/1149/meopta-meostar-1-4x22-zd-mount-not-included.html
Does any body have any experience with this scope?
On paper it looks to come quite close to the RDS like 1-4 set-up I described above. 2moa dot w/ 2moa BDC chevrons placed 2moa from each other. Is it daylight bright? The FOV gets close to the best of them.
.
I just don't get why it hasn't been done yet. Certainly I am not the only one who wants such a set up. USO has proven optics tech is capable of great advances, I just wish the industry would prefect the 1x4 concept while straining at the holy grail variable optics, which at this point is just a bag of compromises.
I agree with you here. It seems we all would like to have more X in a bomb proof package, light weight, and long running day light visible RDS. I'm willing to go 2 out of 3 with the USO SR4C. All of my ARs are 7lbs or less before optics so the extra weight of variables doesn't really bother me. Will post up some observations when it gets here.
jerrysimons
01-30-14, 07:16
Well, Voodoo6actual and others here are happy owners and don't seem to be having problems with their SR8s. Without owning the scope I dont really know what I am talking about, perhapse USO SR8c is better than I was led to believe. I was hoping it was the one but was disappointed after reading BigJimFish's review. I still see the need to perfect the 1-4 concept. And to that end it is good to see USO coming out with a 1-4 patterened after the 1-8 SR8c.
quaesitor logica
01-30-14, 10:35
Why is there such a desire for daylight visible illumination on a 1-4 or 6? On my Aimpoints I turn down the dot as low as possible and i have heard this advice from several instructors, same with the Eotech. On my ACOG I tape up the fiber optic to tone down the illumination as much as possible during the day, overcast or not. On my variable optics , I rarely use the illumination, Dawn, dusk at lowest settings. once in a great while during day I will use illum. when aiming in on something dark that is cast in shadow and I am out in bright light.
I dont think daylight visible illumination is a bad thing in and of itself... like in the case of the Aimpoint , Eotech or Trijicon products. But until you can get "Aimpoint like" or even "Eotech like" performance out of battery powered variable optic illumination , that is just one more thing to become dependent on that can fail way too often.
The VCOG is about the only variable optic that fits the bill so far as far as I can tell. The Leupold VXR patrol does ok with a power management system from what I have read. These are the only two variable scopes I would go with if constant daylight visible illumination was a top priority.
jerrysimons
01-30-14, 11:43
But until you can get "Aimpoint like" or even "Eotech like" performance out of battery powered variable optic illumination , that is just one more thing to become dependent on that can fail way too often.
Exactly the type of performance I am talking about.
I listed a few manufactures that offer a daylight visible, Aimpoint like red dot in a variable scope. But few, if any, have perfected the concept of an affordable, compact, RDS like variable with true 1x that can run like an Aimpoint up close but can dial up a modest level of magnification for quick distance shots with the assistance of a simple reticle out to 400yds of so. A lightweight (14-15oz) second focal plan 1-4 with great optical quality and usability (eye relief, eye box, fov, etc) for about 1k would be ideal.
There are scopes with some aspects but not others yet none that exactly fit the bill of what I envision as a go-to, jack of all trades carbine optic even without price as a consideration.
The Kahles k16i SM2 fits the bill in terms of features for a 1-6, but you will really pay for it.
Its 2moa dot does not bloom the way Aimpoints do. The only downside I see to running it at near max illumination for speed by day is battery life.
With the exception of weight and price the new also USO 1-4 seems to be headed in this direction.
Why is there such a desire for daylight visible illumination on a 1-4 or 6? On my Aimpoints I turn down the dot as low as possible and i have heard this advice from several instructors, same with the Eotech. On my ACOG I tape up the fiber optic to tone down the illumination as much as possible during the day, overcast or not. On my variable optics , I rarely use the illumination, Dawn, dusk at lowest settings. once in a great while during day I will use illum. when aiming in on something dark that is cast in shadow and I am out in bright light.
The reason is most 1-4/6/8 variables have sub par illumination at best. Some at the highest settings disappear during daylight, mostly visible dusk/dawn. The desire stems from multiple experiences over a vast scope of shooters that an illuminated dot/reticle at short to medium distances are faster to pick up vs. non-illuminated reticles - eyes on threat / place dot / press trigger. I think that you may be referring to precision shooting in which cross hairs non-illuminated makes better sense as the dots maybe 2-4 MOA in size which is magnified at distance - slow movers or static. Visually distinct RDS on movers are pretty much the bees knees at this distance.
In the end until tech catches up with the variables, we are somewhat chasing the unicorn. USOs SR series are touting 8000 hours on a CR battery with Aimpoint like brightness. My experience with the VXR has been good for light use, but I don't feel that it will hold up to 'grunt' use. Can't wait to see what the VCOG brings to the table. Tech is getting there...just not as fast as we want it to.
quaesitor logica
01-30-14, 20:39
The reason is most 1-4/6/8 variables have sub par illumination at best. Some at the highest settings disappear during daylight, mostly visible dusk/dawn. The desire stems from multiple experiences over a vast scope of shooters that an illuminated dot/reticle at short to medium distances are faster to pick up vs. non-illuminated reticles - eyes on threat / place dot / press trigger. I think that you may be referring to precision shooting in which cross hairs non-illuminated makes better sense as the dots maybe 2-4 MOA in size which is magnified at distance - slow movers or static. Visually distinct RDS on movers are pretty much the bees knees at this distance.
In the end until tech catches up with the variables, we are somewhat chasing the unicorn. USOs SR series are touting 8000 hours on a CR battery with Aimpoint like brightness. My experience with the VXR has been good for light use, but I don't feel that it will hold up to 'grunt' use. Can't wait to see what the VCOG brings to the table. Tech is getting there...just not as fast as we want it to.
Yep, I was referring to the size of the dot on RDS. I do see how the RDS style sights are faster in close though. I have a Vortex scope with illuminated crosshairs that is very accurate at distance on and off illum. I would like to see a variable scope with a horseshoe style reticle and 1 moa/mill size dots in a BDC reticle ( out to 500 yards instead of 900 yards) like the Burris XTR 1x4 with daylight bright illumination with a 600hr batt life as rugged as a Leupold mk6 1-6.
I would pay over 1k for this unicorn:D
The VCOG and the SR8 are boat anchors though.. if all else fails beat them to death with your optic.
Got another option to throw into the fray. Received this yesterday, nothing to say about reliability yet but my 'tabletop' thoughts on it are that it is a great value for the feature set. Very stout feeling and I love that it has no exterior markings.
-$650 new (I got it used for $560) comparable 1-4/1-5/1-6 scopes are in the $700-1400 range
-1-5x with very clear glass
-true 1 power
-first focal plane
-functional CIRT retcile, but not too cluttered
-nice illumination but not as bright as a short dot, firedot, etc. Dial-adjusted, 5 red and 5 green intensity settings with two 'off' points.
-illumination dial is very easy to adjust with very positive clicks (same with the turrets)
-at 14.x ounces it is lighter weight than a number of its competitors
-capped turrets with tool-less adjustment. Turrets also feature top caps for storing (2) CR2032 batteries
-integral 'cat-tail-like' magnification ring for easy zoom adjustment
On 9.5" blackout
https://v4s2.yimg.com/sk/3755/12951185605_ebd7afd140_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96608534@N06/12951185605/)
Turrets with caps
https://v4s2.yimg.com/so/7376/12951675533_f23a7e6b09_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96608534@N06/12951675533/)
Top caps removed to expose batt storage
https://v4s1.yimg.com/sj/2829/12951981314_2cb7abb559_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96608534@N06/12951981314/)
Magnification ring and rear focus
https://v4s2.yimg.com/so/7322/12951961764_d1ac7679a2_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96608534@N06/12951961764/)
1x (reticle is very clear, camera had trouble focusing)
https://v4s2.yimg.com/sk/3823/12951993913_8c7b671c38_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96608534@N06/12951993913/)
5x
https://v4s1.yimg.com/sj/2841/12952290104_b7f8967a3a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96608534@N06/12952290104/)
https://v4s1.yimg.com/sj/2867/12952291604_cdb8809a65_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/96608534@N06/12952291604/)
I'll bite. What scope is this?
I'll bite. What scope is this?
Weaver 1-5x24 Tactical, meant to put that in the post title. Thanks for the reminder, I'll add it
I messed with a Weaver a couple years ago. Optically it seemed pretty solid. I did find the reticle too small to use on the lowest setting. Also, the scope was heavy.
Sent from my Torque using Tapatalk
I messed with a Weaver a couple years ago. Optically it seemed pretty solid. I did find the reticle too small to use on the lowest setting. Also, the scope was heavy.
Sent from my Torque using Tapatalk
Definitely, it is tiny. Appears to be pretty much a + shaped red cross at 1x. We'll see how that helps/hinders speed/time on target.
I've heard 22oz and on paper spec says 14oz. It seems a bit heavier to me, on the scale it's roughly 20-21oz with ADM recon-h mount. That's a scale with broad intervals though, I need to put it on one in grams...
I am thinking about switching over to only variables now.
With the tricky illumination 'problem' on the MK6 1-6, would in be any hindrance in a home defense situation? What about with white light, does it wash out? Also, I cannot seem to determine if the illumination disappears, if your head position is not perfect, can you still see the cross hairs?
Or would the Vortex Razor HDII fill this role better?
SurplusShooter
03-05-14, 12:34
Weaver 1-5x24 Tactical, meant to put that in the post title. Thanks for the reminder, I'll add it
The Weaver 1-5x Looks to be around $700 at the places I searched. For that price , could get a Sightron 1-7x. Anyone have any time on the Sightron?
The Weaver 1-5x Looks to be around $700 at the places I searched. For that price , could get a Sightron 1-7x. Anyone have any time on the Sightron?
Cheapest I've seen http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/821277-REG/Weaver_800364_1_5x24_Tactical_Riflescope_Matte.html
I'm "that guy" who put a $119 optic on my $2000+ Noveske rifle.
I used the Primary Arms 1-4x24, I will say, its pretty good for what it will be used for....which lets be honest, not war like conditions. I put it on a 2.3oz Aeroprecision mount, pretty good setup and for the money you can't beat it.
Im gonna go with the Vortex PST 1-4 real soon. What mount would be good for this scope, leaning toward the LaRue SPR mount right now! Any advice?
Grunt Out!
Im gonna go with the Vortex PST 1-4 real soon. What mount would be good for this scope, leaning toward the LaRue SPR mount right now! Any advice?
Grunt Out!
I like the Bobro stuff. The lever locks securely in place and the mount is self adjusting so no need to mess with tightening or loosening.
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crusher613
03-13-14, 22:16
I use the american defense recon mount in below link. I really like the mount as it locks up solid and is easy to remove if needed.
http://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/view/product/593/
Strider5.56
03-19-14, 21:36
To Pat Rogers, I sent in the letterhead and my creds to Swarovski Optik for a LEO discount like you discussed in this thread. That was a waste of time. Eurooptic.com is selling the same Optik for $200 cheaper than the LEO discount. Looks like a Leupold VXR patrol for me. I guess you got lucky or they recognized your name.
Im gonna go with the Vortex PST 1-4 real soon. What mount would be good for this scope, leaning toward the LaRue SPR mount right now! Any advice?
Grunt Out!
I went with the Vortex PST 1-4 and the bobro low extended... couldn't be any happier.
The Bobro mounts are the best. Went from ADM's to only Bobro's now.
CharlieDeltaJuliet
04-02-14, 18:35
The Burris MTAC is a good choice. I had one and traded it to a local guy. I miss it terribly.
To Pat Rogers, I sent in the letterhead and my creds to Swarovski Optik for a LEO discount like you discussed in this thread. That was a waste of time. Eurooptic.com is selling the same Optik for $200 cheaper than the LEO discount. Looks like a Leupold VXR patrol for me. I guess you got lucky or they recognized your name.
Not Pat, but I've used the LEO program and the prices on that site are not even close. I suspect you may have been browsing the 2011 models that they had on clearance. Those appear to be sold out.
Here is their current pricing: http://www.eurooptic.com/swarovski-z6i-second-gen-riflescopes.aspx
Rayrevolver
04-28-14, 20:10
Burris is coming out with a dual focal plane scope in 1.5-8x. Anyone plan on trying them out? Seems like a cheaper option than a USO with a red dot. The Burris should be around $900.
Dual Focal Plane:
http://burrisoptics.com/dfp.html
XTR2:
http://burrisoptics.com/xtr1x8x.html
Nice to see more DFP options for sure. Will have to see his they implement the theory and how durable their design is before spending $$ that way. Odd that they only want to offer the BDC reticle as DFP.
Voodoo_Man
04-30-14, 19:50
USO 1-8
http://i.imgur.com/puB8fRd.jpg
More pix later
Aimtrue531
05-02-14, 07:46
Burris is coming out with a dual focal plane scope in 1.5-8x. Anyone plan on trying them out? Seems like a cheaper option than a USO with a red dot. The Burris should be around $900.
Dual Focal Plane:
http://burrisoptics.com/dfp.html
XTR2:
http://burrisoptics.com/xtr1x8x.html
I am currently in the market for a scope but might have to hold off for a while and keep my eye on this Burris.
I have an Aimpoint Pro on my 6920 and I love it. The question I have is I want to do a little hog hunting with it from time to time. Would it be more logical to put a magnifier behind the Pro or purchase something like a VXR by leupold. Basically the same money. If you have a good mount on it, should hold zero. I've never looked through a magnifier so I have nothing to go from on that. Looking for a little insight.
kenken
MadAngler1
05-06-14, 20:52
Original post here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?151906-Thoughts-on-Optics-from-the-NRA-Convention-in-Indy
Hi all,
I went to the NRA convention last weekend (April 25, 2014) and wound up purchasing a Kahles K16i 1-6x from EuroOptic via Ken Pratt (SM1 reticule). Ken was a nice man and was very patient with me while I walked the floor and checked out a bunch of other scopes before I made my decision. I didn't take any good quality pictures, as I only had my iPhone. However, I figured I could provide some comments from what I saw to those who are shopping around for a 1-6x style tactical scope.
1. Vortex 1-6x24 Razor HD Gen II with a VMR-2 milrad reticule: A Vortex rep was at the EuroOptic booth, and Vortex had their own display. I really really liked this scope and came close to purchasing this over the Kahles. The Vortex is only 10.1" long, so it's short, heavy and fat. It felt solid like a S&B short dot, and the weight did not really concern me. The red dot was nice and crisp, with no scatter inside of the tube. The reticule was also clear with well-defined markings in mils. I liked how the turrets could be turned by hand after the caps were removed, and they are also marked off like tactical turrets. The eyebox was large and the glass was fairly clear. Last, you can turn the illumination on or off between settings and it locks in place. The only reason I went with the Kahles was because I subjectively felt the glass was better enough to justify the price difference.
2. Steiner Military M5Xi 1-5X24mm Rapid Dot Riflescope: The Steiner rep at the EuroOptic booth had a 5.56 version to look at. Steiner also had a display on the floor. The turrets were excellent as was the illumination control. The downsides are: 1. this scope is 11.6" long, 2. The reticule leaves much to be desired (as the windage markings are backwards) and 3. there was significant scatter of the red dot's light inside the tube on daylight bright settings. I think this scope has great glass to look through with a decent eye box, but they need a different reticule. I was less than impressed with the illumination system and would definitely take the Vortex over one of these scopes for my purposes.
3. Leupold Mark 6, 1-6x CMR reticule: Everything people said about this scope was true. It is well made and rugged. However, the illumination system scatters light inside the tube and you have to line up right behind the center of the reticule to see it clearly. The intensity of the illumination on 1x was either dim or very bright. I could not find a happy medium indoors at the convention hall. I felt the Vortex's dot was far superior, as was the Kahles and VCOG's over Leupold’s. They really need to figure out a way to provide for a nice clear dot or horseshoe on 1x, because their system does not do a good job as it is set up now. Otherwise, the glass was nice and clear and I like the way the CMR reticule's elevation and windage compensation is set up, unlike Steiner’s. The reticule also includes a mil based scale for further ranging off to the side. Leupold’s website has a pdf file that explains this. Although the eyebox is smaller than its competitors, I think this scope is a good choice for those who will find themselves shooting out at a distance more with their rifle than needing a daylight bright illumination system for close range shooting. However, there are far better options out there to achieve the same thing.
4. Trijicon VCOG 1-6x with a horseshoe reticule (red or green - I looked through both, along with the segmented circle reticule): So this is the scope that I waited for over the past year. This scope is the reason why I did not buy a S&B short dot or a Kahles 1-6x last summer. I wanted to wait and see what this scope would be like, as I loved my Accupoint. To start, the scope is very rugged in appearance and feels solid. The turrets are sealed from the elements, as is the AA battery housing. I think the nicest thing about this scope is that you don't have to worry about leveling the tube in a set of rings. I like the fact that it mounts the same way as the ACOG does to an ACOG type mount. The glass itself is not that bad in terms of clarity and brightness. I would put it on the same level or just a micrometer below the Vortex Razor HD Gen II. However, it is not European level glass by no means. There are 6 illumination settings to choose from, and I found anything from 4-6 to be useful during daylight. Likewise, you can turn the illumination off, between the settings, which is a nice touch similar to the Vortex or S&B. I'm guessing setting 1 may be NVD compatible, but none of the reps could tell me for sure at the Trijicon display. Now for the reticules themselves: the segmented circle model tended to scatter light on settings 4-6. The scattering did not originate from the circle portion of the reticule, but from the crosshair in the center. So if I was buying this scope, I would buy the horseshoe reticule version over the segmented circle for that reason alone. The horseshoe, for whatever reason, shows up as a more clear and crisp reticule, without any sort of scatter inside the tube. On 6x power, you get the same bullet drop compensation grid as on the segmented circle model (minus the center cross hair). On 1x illumination, the horseshoe shows up real nice, almost like a dot. My only gripe about the scope was that the reticule is pre-set for a 7.62 175 grain SMK load and is not mil based. I guess you can learn the hold overs for your loads, but I would prefer a mil based grid of some sort. So why the Kahles over the VCOG? I really loved the glass more than the VCOG’s, the Kahles eyebox was much larger, the Kahles field of view on 1x was wider and because there was no price difference between the two at the show.
5. Kahles K16i 1-6x with a SM1 reticule: The reticule was clear and crisp, even on the brightest illumination. It had zero scatter. The illumination is adjusted by a variable rheostat on the side of the scope, and while the knob does not lock in place, there is an autoshut off feature. Likewise, the rheostat does not adjust easily without placing a firm grip on the knob with two fingers. We’ll see if I can knock the knob around on my SCAR-17. The eyebox was huge and the FOV very wide. I guess the only downside to this scope is the lack of tactical turrets, but I really have no intent of using my SCAR-17 beyond 500-600 yards. It is a rare day where I can find a range that measures beyond 200 yards to begin with. I think this scope will work well for me at the 3-gun matches I attend and for hog hunting. My only concern is how well the scope will hold up to the SCAR’s recoil impulse. I purchased an ADM Delta mount for it, so hopefully it will work just as well as the Short Dot or Trijicon ACOG in terms of durability.
6. Swarovski 1-6x24 Z6i gen 2 with ballistic reticule: Swarovski had a sort of fenced-in display designed to keep people away. Only one rep gave me the time of day when I walked in, despite the face I was very well dressed. Regardless, the Kahles beats this scope as I felt that the Kahles had a slightly larger eyebox and a much better adjustment mechanism for the illumination. I also don’t like the fact that the eyepiece is much more bulky on this unit, and the Kahles has a piece on the magnification dial that makes adjustments easier.
Other scopes of note:
Leupold Mark 8, 1-8x with the H-27D illuminated reticule: First, I'm just including this for comparison purposes. It is way out of my price range, but I can see why those with the funds have placed this scope on their Knight's SR-25s and the like. The illumination system is better than the Mark 6, and it's eyebox is not that bad. It has a smaller eyebox than say, a Vortex 1-6x or similar, but it's acceptable, even with my eyes. Likewise, the 1.1x setting is pretty darn close to being 1x. What sets this scope apart from the others is the reticule on 8x power. This would be the perfect scope for a Knight's ECC SR-25 for those 600-800 yard shots. The scope itself is built like a tank, and the turrets are well designed. I don't think the clarity of the glass was as good as a Kahles or a S&B, but the feature set of this scope makes up for it.
Schmidt and Bender 1-8x24 scopes (close combat true 1x model vs. the 1.1-8x FFP model): So Mark Cromwell of Schmidt and Bender was there at the show, and he had 20+ scopes are the New England Custom Guns booth. It’s funny, because I had no clue that they were there until 4 hours after I purchased my Kahles. He was a very nice man, but seemed frustrated when I told him that these new S&B models were out of my reach price-wise ($3700+) and that I bought a Kahles. In a couple of years, I'll try to make him feel better and buy one of his long range scopes. So the close combat (CC) model is the one I liked the most. It was a true 1x, with a 2nd focal plane reticule. I don’t remember if the dot is FFP or SFP, but this is the scope I would have purchased for my SCAR if I had the funds. The glass was superior to the Mark 8, and I found the eyebox to be generous. Everything else is rock solid S&B, from the turrets, NVD compatibility. Very high quality scope. I would definitely take this over a Mark 8. The other model is a 1.1-8x scope that has a first focal plane reticule for long distance use. Since I can’t find myself shooting in-between magnifications beyond 200 yards (less than 8x that is), I prefer the CC model. Regardless, I think I could have justified spending < $3k for one of these scopes, but not $3800.
S&B 1.5-8x26 (on a 34 mm tube): If you don’t need a 1x scope, this scope is a much better option on a .308 DMR type rifle than the long range version of the 1.1-8x24 scope S&B is offering. The light gathering ability is noticeably better, and it has all the same features as the other PM models (turrets, etc.). I was blown away by this scope, and I would have had little issues placing this on my SCAR, despite the lack of true 1x capability. The price was just at $3000-3100 as well, which makes it a little bit of a better buy than the other 1-8x models. However, since it is not a true 1x scope, why not just buy a 2.5-10x42 Nightforce then? Or, S&B has a new 1.5-8x42 Stratos scope that replaces the old 1.5-6x42 model. Why not that scope for even more light gathering ability? Regardless, maybe their 1-8x scopes should have been built on a 34 mm tube, but perhaps there were German military requirements for weight and size, etc.
Leica Magnus 1-6x: NOPE. Not at the show. Unfortunately, they are still fighting a lawsuit with Swarovski, so no plans to release the 1-6x model in the USA. The Leica reps had a nice display and were quite nice though.
So there you have it. Sorry for the long write up, but I figured that it might be of assistance to those interested in these high dollar scopes. I guess I will take some flak for picking the Kahles over the Vortex or VCOG, but I really felt it was the best value for the money. Now I just need more time to shoot and not work 80+ hours a week.
Take care!
Thats an excellent write up MadAngler1. I too just received a Kahles K16i and am very impressed. Comparring it to my Swaro genII Z6i, the glass etc looks equal to my eyes meaning both excellent. The G4b reticle on the Kakles is finer/thinner than the BRi on the Swaro (I prefer the simplest ranging reticle possible) which I prefer while the ranging "Christmas tree" substentions (sp?) on the BRI seem motre useful. So it's a toss up there. The illumination on the Kahles is more red in color comparerd to the more amber color of the Swaro. Both seem equally daylight bright on the highest setting. I prefer the simple rheostat illumination adjustment on the Kahles since on-the-fly brightness adjustments are easier than the push-button adjustment on the Swaro. But, the Swaro has much more lower settings and would likely be much better for NV use. The lowest setting on the Kahles is easily visible in low light and likely way to bright for NV but I have no NV to try it. One interesting thing on my Kahles is that the illumination blinks as I slowly turn up the illumination, just before the highest setting. I dont know if it's broken but tell myself that it's there to let me know I'm about to max out the illumination...Anyone else have this "blink"?
I'm looking at possibly getting a 1-4x optic. I was looking at either getting the Trijicon TR24G or a Aimpoint T1. What would you guys recommend for a AR thats mostly for range/hd and possibly taking classes with. The rifle is a 14.5 Noveske light carbine.
Aimtrue531
05-16-14, 04:56
Well I finally did it and went with a vortex PST 1-4 MRAD. I did a bunch of research and it just seemed to be the best fit for me and my price range. Can't wait to receive it and put some bullets down range. Now I just need to settle on a mount.
Hi everyone. I am looking to get my first scope and i am learning alot. I am making sort of a RECCE build you could say and im looking to get a good 1-4 scope, i think im going with the Vortex PST 1-4 but im curious if i should save up and just go all out with a Nightforce NXS 1-4? the riffle im building is of all top quality parts, so would a noob be able to tell the difference between the two? im looking to shoot out to 300 yards.
MadAngler1
05-18-14, 15:32
Thats an excellent write up MadAngler1. I too just received a Kahles K16i and am very impressed. Comparring it to my Swaro genII Z6i, the glass etc looks equal to my eyes meaning both excellent. The G4b reticle on the Kakles is finer/thinner than the BRi on the Swaro (I prefer the simplest ranging reticle possible) which I prefer while the ranging "Christmas tree" substentions (sp?) on the BRI seem motre useful. So it's a toss up there. The illumination on the Kahles is more red in color comparerd to the more amber color of the Swaro. Both seem equally daylight bright on the highest setting. I prefer the simple rheostat illumination adjustment on the Kahles since on-the-fly brightness adjustments are easier than the push-button adjustment on the Swaro. But, the Swaro has much more lower settings and would likely be much better for NV use. The lowest setting on the Kahles is easily visible in low light and likely way to bright for NV but I have no NV to try it. One interesting thing on my Kahles is that the illumination blinks as I slowly turn up the illumination, just before the highest setting. I dont know if it's broken but tell myself that it's there to let me know I'm about to max out the illumination...Anyone else have this "blink"?
While I wish my Kahles had a locking turret type system for the illumination adjustment, the rheostat knob is quick, easy and does not move out of place. It probably saves a few ounces of weight as well, compared to the Short Dot's turrets.
I have not noticed any flicker or blinking when turning the illumination all of the way up.
I need some more trigger time behind the scope to render a final verdict. I like it thus far. I'm glad I made the purchase.
MadAngler1
05-18-14, 15:34
Hi everyone. I am looking to get my first scope and i am learning alot. I am making sort of a RECCE build you could say and im looking to get a good 1-4 scope, i think im going with the Vortex PST 1-4 but im curious if i should save up and just go all out with a Nightforce NXS 1-4? the riffle im building is of all top quality parts, so would a noob be able to tell the difference between the two? im looking to shoot out to 300 yards.
If you can afford it, I would look hard at Vortex's 1-6x Razor Gen II HD scope (see my review on the previous page of this thread). It beats the Nightforce hands down, for the same amount of money or less IMHO. Plus, you get a daytime bright dot on 1x with the new Vortex. If you look hard enough, you can find a deal on the new 1-6x Vortex for around $1300-1400, which is about the same price as a Nightforce Compact.
If you can afford it, I would look hard at Vortex's 1-6x Razor Gen II HD scope (see my review on the previous page of this thread). It beats the Nightforce hands down, for the same amount of money or less IMHO. Plus, you get a daytime bright dot on 1x with the new Vortex. If you look hard enough, you can find a deal on the new 1-6x Vortex for around $1300-1400, which is about the same price as a Nightforce Compact.
I decided on going with the Vortex Viper PST. There are 3 different options, and i dont know what to pick between the moa or the moa with capped turrets?
I decided on going with the Vortex Viper PST. There are 3 different options, and i dont know what to pick between the moa or the moa with capped turrets?
I have MRAD version and only downside for me are open turrets. On this kind of scope most of the time you do not use turrets to dial in corrections and open turrets are to easy to move by dragging on something (or by unfriendly shooter, like it happened to me on one rifle match). So I would suggest capped turrets version, until you absolutely and positively need open turrets to do corrections on turrets on the fly.
I have MRAD version and only downside for me are open turrets. On this kind of scope most of the time you do not use turrets to dial in corrections and open turrets are to easy to move by dragging on something (or by unfriendly shooter, like it happened to me on one rifle match). So I would suggest capped turrets version, until you absolutely and positively need open turrets to do corrections on turrets on the fly.
Ok thats what i was thinking, looks like thats the way i will go then. Thank you.
New to AR and 1-4 scopes . So if your battery dies I take it you can still use a vortex pst or leopold vx-r
New to AR and 1-4 scopes . So if your battery dies I take it you can still use a vortex pst or leopold vx-r
Yes....
I have MRAD version and only downside for me are open turrets. On this kind of scope most of the time you do not use turrets to dial in corrections and open turrets are to easy to move by dragging on something (or by unfriendly shooter, like it happened to me on one rifle match). So I would suggest capped turrets version, until you absolutely and positively need open turrets to do corrections on turrets on the fly.
One of the reasons why I'm digging the SWFA 1-4 and 1-6 lines that have the undercover turrets. Can be run either way and they maintain seal with the covers off. On a number of capped turrets the dust cap is also a moisture seal. Remove the cap and no guarantee the scope won't get wet if you manage to dunk it.
Sux about the POS turning knobs.
Re: Kahles K16i 1-6x with a SM1 reticule
Is the central "horse shoe/circle" reticle bold/big enough to use in bright sunlight with the illumination turned off, at 1x?
Singlestack Wonder
06-21-14, 18:40
If you can afford it, I would look hard at Vortex's 1-6x Razor Gen II HD scope (see my review on the previous page of this thread). It beats the Nightforce hands down, for the same amount of money or less IMHO. Plus, you get a daytime bright dot on 1x with the new Vortex. If you look hard enough, you can find a deal on the new 1-6x Vortex for around $1300-1400, which is about the same price as a Nightforce Compact.
"Beats the Nightforce hands down". If one needs a bomb proof, shit hit the fan, optic, no, Nightforce would be the choice. For gun gamers that feel they need a daylight visible dot and don't need a rugged optic, vortex is the answer.
"Beats the Nightforce hands down". If one needs a bomb proof, shit hit the fan, optic, no, Nightforce would be the choice. For gun gamers that feel they need a daylight visible dot and don't need a rugged optic, vortex is the answer.
How isn't the Vortex rugged?
MadAngler1
06-22-14, 00:25
Re: Kahles K16i 1-6x with a SM1 reticule
Is the central "horse shoe/circle" reticle bold/big enough to use in bright sunlight with the illumination turned off, at 1x?
Yes. You don't really need the illumination on at all in super bright daylight. The reticule is second focal plane. You get a 1 MOA dot with roughly a 6 MOA surrounding ring. You can see it easily with or without the illumination.
MadAngler1
06-22-14, 00:32
"Beats the Nightforce hands down". If one needs a bomb proof, shit hit the fan, optic, no, Nightforce would be the choice. For gun gamers that feel they need a daylight visible dot and don't need a rugged optic, vortex is the answer.
I agree 110% with you when it comes to proven durability. The nightforce would be a no brainer in the durability department. However, most people running the 1-6x Vortex will not be dragging it on the rocks behind a Humvee in Afghanistan. I endorse the Vortex over the Nightforce 1-4x compact solely due to the Vortex's better glass, bigger eyebox, 1-6x magnification range, warranty and red dot. The Nightforce Compact is in desperate need of some upgrades to compete in this market, and it's why I never bought one.
Likewise, almost everyone I've met who own a Vortex and most people that have reviewed it online have not had any reliability issues. It appears to be well made. Is it Nightforce or Short Dot tough? We really don't have any data to support that, but we do know that the Nightforce is tried and true, indeed.
and FYI, I do own a Nightforce 2.5-10x32 compact and love it to death. I looked through the Beast at the NRA convention and was floored. I also think the 3.5-15x50 F1 model is pretty darn hard to beat, even up against the Mark 6 3-18x and other European models.
It may just be me, however, I have been noticing that the Vortex VMR-2 reticle does not draw my eye to the target. If I try to shoot it both eyes open focusing on the target, I lose it. The red dot has been washing out, even when the targets have small black bullseye.
Does this occur with anyone else? Should I not be trying to shoot with cross-hairs like I do with Aimpoints?
I am wondering if the MK6 1-6x with the CMR-W would be better?
MountainRaven
07-24-14, 22:24
I am thinking about switching over to only variables now.
With the tricky illumination 'problem' on the MK6 1-6, would in be any hindrance in a home defense situation? What about with white light, does it wash out? Also, I cannot seem to determine if the illumination disappears, if your head position is not perfect, can you still see the cross hairs?
Or would the Vortex Razor HDII fill this role better?
Semi-necro, but were it me, I would keep the illumination on a variable low. Just bright enough to be usable in ambient "darkness" of your house at night. As soon as you hit your light, just use the etched reticle - as though you're using irons, without the multiple focus points of irons.
Semi-necro, but were it me, I would keep the illumination on a variable low. Just bright enough to be usable in ambient "darkness" of your house at night. As soon as you hit your light, just use the etched reticle - as though you're using irons, without the multiple focus points of irons.
Yeah, I just kept an H1 on my Home defense AR.
To add to my post above, I've found that putting my Vortex on 1.5x helps me pick up the reticle quicker past 25 yards, and I'm still able to keep awareness around me without getting sucked into the target picture.
MadAngler1
07-26-14, 16:26
It may just be me, however, I have been noticing that the Vortex VMR-2 reticle does not draw my eye to the target. If I try to shoot it both eyes open focusing on the target, I lose it. The red dot has been washing out, even when the targets have small black bullseye.
Does this occur with anyone else? Should I not be trying to shoot with cross-hairs like I do with Aimpoints?
I am wondering if the MK6 1-6x with the CMR-W would be better?
Are you having problems with the red dot on the Vortex? I have a friend with one and never experienced any red dot "wash out" unless I moved my head outside of the eyebox of the reticule.
I still think the Kahles and S&B short dot beats them all.
Are you having problems with the red dot on the Vortex? I have a friend with one and never experienced any red dot "wash out" unless I moved my head outside of the eyebox of the reticule.
I still think the Kahles and S&B short dot beats them all.
I am going to change the battery and see if that it solves it. I thought I did already though.
But, I am mostly shooting it with the dot off. I also have found that having it on 1.5x helps.
Anybody know anything about the Steiner 1-4? Seems pretty new, I've heard the company in general makes good glass. NRA LOD has a pretty solid deal on them, assuming they're worth the MSRP.
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I just picked up the new Burris 1-5x24mm XTRII with the 5.56 reticle. I'll try to get it mounted up tomorrow.
I’m considering the Leupold VX-R Patrol 1-4. I’ve been watching videos on YouTube and even an unboxing, and the scope does not seem to come with lens covers. Is that true that for $600 you don’t get lens covers?
MajorLonghorn
09-30-14, 20:18
No lens caps on the one I had. Still, it was a great, lightweight scope. I only sold it because I switched to ACOGs.
Far more expensive scopes don't come with caps, either.
No lens caps on the one I had. Still, it was a great, lightweight scope. I only sold it because I switched to ACOGs.
The only scope I own and have ever used is a cheap $150 BSA scope on a .17 HMR, and it came with nice screw in lens caps. I can’t believe something as expensive as the VX-R Patrol does not come with lens caps. The Patrol may not seem expensive to some, but I’ve been choking on the cost for almost a year now, and I really don’t want to procrastinate any longer. I want the scope on my AR.
One video I watched said he could not even get any info from Leupold on the size of the lens caps. Sounded like he never found any that fit. That’s real discouraging. Does anyone have this scope and have lens caps that fit?
Far more expensive scopes don't come with caps, either.
That’s ridiculous. Cheap binoculars always come with lens caps.
Does anyone even put lens caps on their 1-4? I've never seen it...
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Does anyone even put lens caps on their 1-4? I've never seen it...
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I will on the objective lens as I hate the dust collection that happens.
.46caliber
10-01-14, 07:00
I've got flip covers on my Mark AR 1.5-4. Butler Creek Blizzard size 1 on the objective. A Butler Creek Flex Fit on the eyepiece. All you have to do is measure with a caliper and reference their fit chart.
I also figured out which thread on Leupold caps would work with a little effort.
@wingspar, if you can't figure out which Leupold thread-in caps fit, just call them.
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I've got flip covers on my Mark AR 1.5-4. Butler Creek Blizzard size 1 on the objective. A Butler Creek Flex Fit on the eyepiece. All you have to do is measure with a caliper and reference their fit chart.
I also figured out which thread on Leupold caps would work with a little effort.
@wingspar, if you can't figure out which Leupold thread-in caps fit, just call them.
Thank you. That helps. The Butler Creek chart does not show the scope I want, but I should be able to figure out what will work. So, the scope is fitted with threads for a thread in cap and Leupold doesn’t even mention lens caps on their site? Seems like such a simple thing that should be included in their info, or actually, lens caps should be included with the scope. Oh well. Thanks again.
.46caliber
10-01-14, 10:12
Thank you. That helps. The Butler Creek chart does not show the scope I want, but I should be able to figure out what will work. So, the scope is fitted with threads for a thread in cap and Leupold doesn’t even mention lens caps on their site? Seems like such a simple thing that should be included in their info, or actually, lens caps should be included with the scope. Oh well. Thanks again.
Way too many scopes to list by model. Measure the outside diameter of the objective and eyepiece and find the size that best matches the measurement.
Leupold does have the caps on their site. They don't list the caps as related products for each scope which would make it easier, you'll have to look for them. I have a feeling you won't like the price either.
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I have the new Burris mounted in a Bobro 30mm mount.
Eye relief is very good at 1x and still pretty forgiving at 5x. The scope has eleven brightness settings with an off setting in between each step. Power selection is smooth and easy with no sign of tight spots or binding.
The reticle, on the highest setting, looks pretty close to my Aimpoint when it is turned all the way up so it should be daytime usable for shooters who want that feature. I'll verify that this weekend, hopefully.
On the down side, the scope is a bit heavy. I'll get a weight posted shortly. Also, it is a product of the Philippines, if you don't want to buy an import. Also, the scope has uncapped tactical turrets. I really don't care for these on a carbine scope especially when the reticle has hash marks for holdovers.
Overall, this seems like a nice enough piece of glass. It is clear, optically, with good contrast and color rendition.
And it comes with flip-up lens caps.
Way too many scopes to list by model. Measure the outside diameter of the objective and eyepiece and find the size that best matches the measurement.
Leupold does have the caps on their site. They don't list the caps as related products for each scope which would make it easier, you'll have to look for them. I have a feeling you won't like the price either.
Had to do some searching on the Leupold site to find the caps. Saw a video on the Leupold screw in flip up caps, and they are very nice, but you are right. They are expensive. Looks like about $132 for the pair. I’ll wait till I have the scope in hand, then order some caps. Probably Butler Creek unless someone has other suggestions. Thanks for the info. :)
Brian Brazier
10-03-14, 14:09
I need some mount help, I picked up a Vortex Viper PST recently, and I need a mount, I like ADM mounts, but I am havin trouble deciding on the Recon or Recon X. Is there any way to decide without getting to try one out? I am a scope noob, I grew up shooting shotguns and handguns.
conecommander
10-10-14, 17:55
I need some mount help, I picked up a Vortex Viper PST recently, and I need a mount, I like ADM mounts, but I am havin trouble deciding on the Recon or Recon X. Is there any way to decide without getting to try one out? I am a scope noob, I grew up shooting shotguns and handguns.
I went with the Reconfor the PST and I am very happy with the mount. I think the X is a little Xcessive
Brian Brazier
10-10-14, 20:56
I went with the Reconfor the PST and I am very happy with the mount. I think the X is a little Xcessive
Thanks, I was thinkin that the X is a little too much
Ned Christiansen
12-11-14, 09:30
I've had very good results with the Millett DMS-1, probably mentioned it earlier in this 143 page thread (!)..... but why I'm posting today is to advise that now there's a DMS-2, it is a 1-6 and they tell me it's the same size or very close. Didn't hear a price but hopefully not much more than the under-$250 of the DMS-1. Midway has the '1's right now for $209.
I know that in optics, there is a pretty parallel graph line between price and quality. I know that. And I know the DMR-1 is made in China. I friggin' hate that. But mine has worked so darn well, many thousands of rounds under it, a near-win at the National Patrol Rifle Conference, plus a trip to Afghanistan and back. Not saying it was outside the wire getting knocked around every day, but it was there.
Five years ago I had about $5-$6-grand's worth of the uber high-end 1-4 illuminated reticle optics in my hands for a month or three. Between dim-watt reticles, first focal planes, and weight, I simply could not make them seem better. Plus the "Oh my God don't bump it" factor.
I found out about the impending release of the DMR-2 when I called Millett customer service to get a replacement objective lens cover, told the guy I had a newly-mounted DMS-1 and had done a poor installation by forgetting to tape the scope cap on-- the scope caps have been cheezy for me on Milletts. He mentioned the DMS-2 coming out and also that something new from Bushnell that should be of interest would also be debuted at SHOT.
Edit, Midway shows the DMS-2 at $399, but I was sure the Millett guy told me they weren't actually out yet.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/217677/millett-dms-2-rifle-scope-30mm-tube-1-6x-24mm-illuminated-bdc-reticle-matte
2nd edit: "out of stock".
I am not a shill for Millett. Never could stomach their pistol sights. But as I said in a recent article, when you have many rifles it's hard to have a Night Force or Leupold on each one.
... when you have many rifles it's hard to have a Night Force or Leupold on each one.
Truer words have never been spoken. Unless you're married to a trauma surgeon.
polydeuces
12-30-14, 08:47
Truer words have never been spoken. Unless you're married to a trauma surgeon.
Which means you're even more broke.....IF you're the starter-husband (wife) ......:)
Got another one to throw in here as an option...
Recently acquired this as a placeholder on a 14.5" upper and have really taking a liking to it.
Bushnell 1-4x24 BTR1 PCL
pros:
-FFP
-True 1x
-illuminated BDC reticle the simplicity of which I may prefer over similar options like the SWFA and Vortex PST
-very bright illumination, 11 options in total, lowest setting is NV compatible
-mil/mil turrets
-integrated 'cat tail' zoom lever
-30mm tube
-very functional knurling on turrets, zoom adjustment, and focus
-great glass for the price
-mid size, at 17oz and 9.5" long
-$280 (no that's not a typo)
cons:
-un-capped turrets
-very little, but some, turret slop between clicks
-stupid 'AR223' writing on each side, although it is ghosted/gray so not too visible.
-would prefer a horizontal axis in the recticle as well (available in the more expensive 1-6.5x with BTR2 reticle)
I've found drops to be very accurate out of my 14.5" with 55-62gr ammunition out to 400 yards. The horizontal hashes are good for 10mph full value wind at each given distance, and the ret is simple to use thus far. At 1x, I find the illumination to be very bright, much better than other sub $1k 1-4s I've tried. Since this is FFP, the illumination at 1x makes the recticle look almost like a read dot, which means it's been very fast for me on target. At full zoom and distance, the reticle is usable but not obtrusive, as the beefest part is above where the shooter is holding for drops.
All in all, it's a great scope for the money, too good really. I will be switching to the 1-6.5x BTR2 at some point for the more usable ret, better glass, and capped turrets. But this will do for now.
http://www.bushnell.com/getmedia/f37b35f7-23bc-47f7-826e-4f154c0fb5a9/ar91424I-feature.png?width=520&height=520&ext=.png
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7470/16142048536_fa963f2e14_b.jpg
BTR1 reticle
http://www.bushnell.com/getmedia/55358ecd-9d11-4869-9381-e359c95cc39c/btr1.gif?width=800&height=800&ext=.gif
BTR2 reticle
http://www.bushnell.com/getmedia/8a2a999c-e87e-4b54-893b-ccd0d2ab4eb1/btr2.gif?width=800&height=800&ext=.gif
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