View Full Version : PMag Follower in 60 round Surefire?
Hey guys I'm sure this is going to get me a well deserved verbal flogging...but I have a serious question. I'm on municipal town council, and our LEO's (the younger guys) are interested in us buying 60-round Surefire mags for their patrol carbines. I have read less than stellar reviews from various sources. And it seems like it's cause of the follower nose diving...along with a complicated spring system that looks like a cobbled up tangled cluster ****...Sooooooo, could a PMag follower be used? I'm sure it would/could alter capacity...but if it would fit, and only change capacity 2-5 rounds it would still be a huge force multiplier and a viable tactical advantage. As the officer is likely not going to kit up if he's in a hurry and put his Tac-vest on. So, if he could add an edge, and buy time with these mags slightly modified by using a PMag anti tilt follower then that would be great.
Any input, even if it's a virtual bitch smack for asking a retarded ? would be greatly appreciated! I just dot want to spend thousands of $ on new mags that could end up getting my boys hurt when a 30 round PMag would have been a better alternative.
I really appreciate the advise!
Hey guys I'm sure this is going to get me a well deserved verbal flogging...but I have a serious question. I'm on municipal town council, and our LEO's (the younger guys) are interested in us buying 60-round Surefire mags for their patrol carbines. I have read less than stellar reviews from various sources. And it seems like it's cause of the follower nose diving...along with a complicated spring system that looks like a cobbled up tangled cluster ****...Sooooooo, could a PMag follower be used? I'm sure it would/could alter capacity...but if it would fit, and only change capacity 2-5 rounds it would still be a huge force multiplier and a viable tactical advantage. As the officer is likely not going to kit up if he's in a hurry and put his Tac-vest on. So, if he could add an edge, and buy time with these mags slightly modified by using a PMag anti tilt follower then that would be great.
Any input, even if it's a virtual bitch smack for asking a retarded ? would be greatly appreciated! I just dot want to spend thousands of $ on new mags that could end up getting my boys hurt when a 30 round PMag would have been a better alternative.
I really appreciate the advise!
Won't work. The followers wont fit in there at all.
Also I would suggest buying a couple for T&E. I know people who use them with no problems and others who can't get them to function at all.
Something else to think about is that if they are using a 60 as thier primary and not carrying a reload, the rifle becomes a big stick when the mag takes a dump.
p22shooter30
04-25-12, 17:47
if you need more than 60 rounds at once in your patrol rifle, quit and move to a safer town.
As said, it wont work.
Honestly, the only scenario I can think of where a 60 rounder would give an advantage is if you were under siege
By the way, a better solution would be redimags or Reid-mods on every patrol rifle.
Hey guys I'm sure this is going to get me a well deserved verbal flogging...but I have a serious question. I'm on municipal town council, and our LEO's (the younger guys) are interested in us buying 60-round Surefire mags for their patrol carbines. I have read less than stellar reviews from various sources. And it seems like it's cause of the follower nose diving...along with a complicated spring system that looks like a cobbled up tangled cluster ****...Sooooooo, could a PMag follower be used? I'm sure it would/could alter capacity...but if it would fit, and only change capacity 2-5 rounds it would still be a huge force multiplier and a viable tactical advantage. As the officer is likely not going to kit up if he's in a hurry and put his Tac-vest on. So, if he could add an edge, and buy time with these mags slightly modified by using a PMag anti tilt follower then that would be great.
Any input, even if it's a virtual bitch smack for asking a retarded ? would be greatly appreciated! I just dot want to spend thousands of $ on new mags that could end up getting my boys hurt when a 30 round PMag would have been a better alternative.
I really appreciate the advise!
Kudos to you for being receptive to their request, giving it fair consideration, and evaluating truly reasonable alternatives. It's refreshing to see in government.
I would deny their request, and offer them half the value of each 60rd magazine requested in high quality 30rd magazines. That's a ratio of ~5:1, depending on the type and quantity of mag you buy. This provides for your troops, is responsible use of the resources you're charged with, and is defensible to the constituents you represent.
Slvr Surfr
04-25-12, 18:16
Something else to think about is that if they are using a 60 as thier primary and not carrying a reload, the rifle becomes a big stick when the mag takes a dump.
+1 :big_boss:
Kudos to you for being receptive to their request, giving it fair consideration, and evaluating truly reasonable alternatives. It's refreshing to see in government.
I would deny their request, and offer them half the value of each 60rd magazine requested in high quality 30rd magazines. That's a ratio of ~5:1, depending on the type and quantity of mag you buy. This provides for your troops, is responsible use of the resources you're charged with, and is defensible to the constituents you represent.
Thanks for the kind words, and the advise! As a conservative, and a pro-2A guy, and all around fanatic of all things firearms I am just trying to help give them the best input I can provide them.
I personally agree that a Redimag, with a back up would be a better alternative to the Surefire. And totally agree that I'd rather have a Tac vest equipped with the best mags money can buy rather than an iffy first Gen item (first Gen to AR's that is) that has little field use compared to the alternative.
My guys are basing a lot of their opinions on the mags based upon larger departments in the area who claim them to be 100% reliable....but then again this input is coming from a PD that issued RRA carbines to their BIB. Sooooooo, kinda hard to take them seriously from my POV.
I'd rather spend extra money on quality mags, training ammo, and classes (most of my guys have state academy only training)...and a few of them look up to me for firearms and ammo advise. So I'm always looking out for their best interest!
classes (most of my guys have state academy only training)
+1 ^^
I've used a couple for a year and have had good results. With that being said as a 23 year cop, SWAT, lead firearms instructor, Iraq vet, blah, blah, I would much rather have 2 standard capacity mags than one large 1. I believe there are many people with the experience and wisdom to decide if they are an advantage to them. Unfortunately many who want the 60 rounders simply don't know enough to make a rational decision. Far be it from me to tell other cops what they need but sometimes it has to be done. I see most of the older more experienced cops carrying 30's as spares and starting with a 20 in the weapon. I would rather have 2 20's than 1 60. From an economic standpoint you can buy 8-10 quality mags for the price of 1 Surefire 60.
OP,
I need to come work in your jurisdiction. The local sheriffs dept in my area wont move past issuing pump action .223s to the road deputies for fear of public backlash over officers having military style assault weapons. (mind you the LEOs on CIRT have M4s) :rolleyes:
Hell the county legislature here is continuously looking for any means to further neuter the department as it is.
Let me say this. I recently acquired another SF60 and it has been flawless, just like the other. The first one has had over 1000 rounds through it.
The second has about 300 to include full auto fire.
Ah.. WTF, wow... really?
Working with premier large metro LE tactical teams, who take down guys every night, noted those who use one magazine in the gun and one on the belt. Minimalism has it's own value for the adepts.
Those who's gear and mentality is slanted toward an unrealistic training enviornment may look like walking blackhawk catalogs.
I would think a magazine in the weapon & one extra would be fine.
It really doesn't make sense for a patrol carbine. A full 30 round mag in the gun, a full mag on your person, and rapid access to more.
When a few of our guys asked, it was an easy no.
I hate all that extra weight of a redi-mag or a 60 round mag constantly hanging off a "light weight" carbine rifle. 99.9% of the time the gun is being carried around and held up to cover an area, having lots of ammo ON the gun is really annoying. I have one 30 round in the gun and I keep an extra 20 in my vest. 50 rifle rounds should suffice for most situations, but I do have a more mags in the trunk if needed. This also allows the flexibility of swapping out the 30 with a 20 if I'm going to lay prone for awhile.
I rolled with a redi-mag and two 30 round mags for a few years before stripping off the redi-mag and selling it.
Just my input on too much ammo on the gun, I know it doesn't answer your question about reliability for the SF mag.
Let me say this. I recently acquired another SF60 and it has been flawless, just like the other. The first one has had over 1000 rounds through it.
The second has about 300 to include full auto fire.
I have several, they have all been flawless, thousands of rounds to include lots of auto.
restfortheweary
04-26-12, 07:13
After spending several hours holding perimeters, I dropped the ready- mag from my patrol rifle. I have the same feeling on the 60. The average LEO is gonna spend much more time holding a position then they will laying suppressive fire. I have gone to a 20 as my primary and a spare 30. Also a chest rig full of 30's, if the situation ever calls for it (all though my experience suggests it never will).
Robb Jensen
04-26-12, 07:22
I highly recommend having two mags, the quickest way to get the gun back up and running if it has a stoppage usually requires another mag. If you have a mag related stoppage like a double feed why would you want to reinsert that jacked up mag!
Same thing when carrying a handgun, it kills when I find out people don't carry a spare mag.
My "sample set" of one has run without problems with brass case and only had two stoppages with steel.
I've ran both steel and brass full auto thought it fine. The two stoppages happened with slow fire. I've since polished the divider and feed lips and since then I've had zero stoppages.
I have almost a thousand rounds with the majority being steel case through it.
I would have to agree if I were in a departmental situation, I'd go with the redimag. Unless I've had several thousand through one...
John_Burns
04-26-12, 11:51
My Surefire 60 has also been flawless including a lot of use at a Mike Pannone class. The longer length and wide base make it nice to use prone on a flat range. I did lose track of how many rounds were in the gun shooting various drills and I think a guy is way much more likely to run the gun to slide lock and get caught needing an emergency reload at a bad time.
When shooting from and around vehicles the SF 60 is a burden for me and I prefer 20s to 30s for daily carry in a vehicle. Plastic mags also save on the interior of a vehicle getting the gun into and out of the vehicle and save your paint some when shooting while using the vehicle as support.
As others have said kudos to you for trying to be a part of a solution for your guys and ammo plus training would seem to be a better use of funds. Just think of the money your town would save if a bad situation was stopped with 1 or 2 surgically placed rounds from a 20 rnd mag versus being stopped with round #53 from a SF mag.
Somebody is going to have to explain the other 52 bullets sprayed through your town.:cool:
Since the original post had to do with swapping followers for whatever reason and we know that can't happen. Let's let this one die and discuss the love and hate for SF magazines elsewhere.
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