LAV shooting a Luger

[Sam]

If this is in the wrong forum, please move it to the right place. It's a 60 second clip showing Larry Vickers demonstrating the German Luger.

http://dsc.discovery.com/video/player.html?playerId=203711706&bclid=420745895

The above link doesn't seem to work, so go here.

http://military.discovery.com/convergence/weaponology/episode/episode.html

Click on "check the schedule" then "shooting the luger".

My pistolsmith told me that LAV also appeared on the Military channel in the "Green Beret" segment. Here is the schedule. Unfortunately I don't have the Military channel.

http://military.discovery.com/tv-schedules/daily.html

[Buckaroo]

LOL! There was an "Oil of Olay" add before the video!

[Sam]

Gotta keep them paws soft when shootin' the Luger. As long as the video works.

[Wayne Dobbs]

The Green Beret segment was on Military last night at 900 PM CST. LAV had a significant presence in the program and if it repeats, it is definitely worth a look.

[John_Wayne777]

The Green Beret segment was on Military last night at 900 PM CST. LAV had a significant presence in the program and if it repeats, it is definitely worth a look.

The only bad thing was that they didn't spend enough time talking to him. There were some real groaner moments that could have used his correction and still other segments where his experienced viewpoint would have been incredibly informative. Still, the show is certainly worth watching if for nothing else than ogling LAV's 1911 with the CT grips.

[John_Wayne777]

LOL! There was an "Oil of Olay" add before the video!

It's 2008, bro. One can be a one man killing machine AND avoid having dry, scaly hands.

Chicks dig it.

[abnartyguy]

Gent's,
cool vid, wish they had the other one you guys were talking about on there. later!
-ZM:cool: :cool:

[Stretz Tactical Inc]

It just replayed again this morning. Very interesting watching Lav manipulate the pistol and the carbine. Does anyone know why he doesn't use the "over the top" method of releasing the slide when reloading? Is what we have been taught for years about fine motor skills BS? Could we have been hiting the slide release with the non dominant hand all along?

[Patrick Aherne]

It just replayed again this morning. Very interesting watching Lav manipulate the pistol and the carbine. Does anyone know why he doesn't use the "over the top" method of releasing the slide when reloading? Is what we have been taught for years about fine motor skills BS? Could we have been hiting the slide release with the non dominant hand all along?

DING! DING! DING!

[Stretz Tactical Inc]

Thats what I thought. I always felt like it wouldnt be a problem, but the motor skill thing made sense. I saw a video of todd jarret reloading and thats the way he reloads, but I figured thats competition, not combat.

LAV also said "there is a time and place for point shooting" I didnt think people from where he came from ever fired a shot w/o the sights. Can anyone elaborate on when he feels "is the time and place"?

[John_Wayne777]

It just replayed again this morning. Very interesting watching Lav manipulate the pistol and the carbine. Does anyone know why he doesn't use the "over the top" method of releasing the slide when reloading?


I've never asked the man about it, but I would assume because it's a bit faster.



Is what we have been taught for years about fine motor skills BS?


I believe I remember Ken Hackathorn commenting during the low light class that pulling the trigger is a "fine" motor skill.....If I'm wrong here someone correct me.

The simple fact is that lots of people like to get in internet arguments about what you can and can't do under stress in regards to manipulating a weapon....usually people who have very little time actually training with weapons. If you train to use the slide release then by-god you'll be able to use it when you need to. When you properly train to do something it becomes a part of your subconscious "reptilian" brain and you are able to do it without dedicating a single clock cycle of brain power to going "Oh, ya....need to hit the slide release!"

Mr. Vickers probably has more trigger time behind a 1911 than God and as a result I wouldn't bet that he couldn't perform a manipulation with that weapon (or any other I can think of) under stress.



Could we have been hiting the slide release with the non dominant hand all along?

Personally I use my strong-side thumb to hit the release. Individual differences in physiology mean that the way that works for me won't necessarily work for everybody else. I've heard Mr. Vickers state that he's got rather short fingers so he may have adapted to using the non-dominant hand when possible to deal with that particular detail of his physiology. I wasn't watching the clip all that closely so I didn't notice that he was using his left hand to drop the slide on his 1911.

[John_Wayne777]

LAV also said "there is a time and place for point shooting" I didnt think people from where he came from ever fired a shot w/o the sights. Can anyone elaborate on when he feels "is the time and place"?

Gladly.

What many people think of as "point" shooting isn't really what Mr. Vickers is talking about. He's referring to a process which involves looking through the sights of the weapon at the target or at the very least indexing the weapon on the target. He's not talking about "shooting from the hip" or similar methods which are really only valid options at contact distance.

In a traditional bullseye sight picture the rear sight is fuzzy, the front sight is sharply in focus, and the target is fuzzy. What Mr. Vickers and Mr. Hackathorn taught during the low light class was a sighting arrangement where the target is in focus and you simply superimpose the sights on top of the target and make a good trigger pull....

At close ranges this can be done VERY effectively and VERY accurately. 10 yards and in you should be able to put your rounds inside the center circle of an IDPA target all day long at speed. The farther back you go the more you may need to focus on the front sight to make the proper shot. Personally I have an issue with my eyesight that nobody seems to be able to figure out. I have a really bad case of double vision when both my eyes are open....meaning if I focus on a particular object anything beyond that object often appears in double for me....even at long ranges (30 or 40 yards...)

It's really bad with objects that are up close....like the sights on a handgun. As a result I've adapted by essentially focusing on the target and superimposing my sights on the target else I'll end up with a clear focus on my sights and I'll be seeing the target in double...which doesn't work so well for me. Because my eyes are in good shape I can actually see my front sight very clearly when doing this and it helps with my accuracy.

My trigger pulls are another matter. :o

The "time" and "place" for point shooting referred to by Mr. Vickers is going to be at closer ranges where speed and accuracy are needed most. If you completely ignore the sights and merely index the weapon properly (meaning holding the weapon in a traditional shooting stance) you can still be pretty accurate at close ranges. One of the drills Ken had us do was taping up our sights and making us shoot targets that way. You can use the sighted method described (sometimes also referred to as "threat focused") with superb accuracy at close range and even at longer ranges, in my experience.

If you're 50 yards away it might well be time to focus heavily on that front sight. For me this usually requires closing my left eye. The major point here is that you don't need that bullseye perfect sight picture to make accurate shots, and in the real world you likely aren't going to have conditions suitable to obtaining that sort of sight picture anyway.

[Stretz Tactical Inc]

Thanks JW!

[Sam]

I've never asked the man about it, but I would assume because it's a bit faster.



I believe I remember Ken Hackathorn commenting during the low light class that pulling the trigger is a "fine" motor skill.....If I'm wrong here someone correct me.


That is what the MAN said. Another reason is, when you correctly insert a magazine with your left hand (for right handed shooter), where does your left thumb naturally ends up when the magazine is seated? The left thumb should be just hovering above the slide release! Why not drop it down and depress the lever while the other four fingers wrap around the shooting hand ready to take the shot. It's all about minimizing unnecessary movement.

[Stretz Tactical Inc]

I just saw LAV on the weponology SAS episode demonstrating the MP5, sig 226 and browning high power. LAV's knowledge on weapons and tactics seems to be endless.

Although I did notice his head shots with the MP5 were a little left. Is that the El Snatcho people in his classes always refer too?:D

Just kidding Larry. See you in 10 days, looking forward to my first class with you.