View Full Version : 10.5" barreled upper
i am in the process of building an ar with a 10.5" barrel. i read somewhere that i may not be able to use a front sight gas block with a bayonet lug on it. is that true? also, i would need to use a pistol stock, correct? i haven't ordered any lower parts yet so i want to make sure before i buy anything and can't use it. i live in ohio if that matters. any info would help greatly. :confused:
If you dont have the SBR paperwork you will need to have your lower configured as a pistol. This also means no verticle grips on the upper.
Edit: I misread your OP. Several companies make 10.5 inch barrels with a standard FSB.
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=lsb-556&cat=136&page=1&search=&since=&status=&title=
i see on the site you posted that it also has a full stock and not a pistol stock. don't i need to get a lower with a pistol stock or not? i was under the impression i needed a pistol stock. what a pain this seems to be.
davidjinks
04-30-12, 18:41
Are you building a SBR (Short Barreled Rifle) or are you building a "Pistol" type AR?
You're not making it very clear as to what you"re wanting to build.
I have a 10.5" SBR and it has an "F" marked FSB with bayonet lug and there's no problems with it.
I'm not all too sure about OH laws regarding SBRs, I would suggest looking up your state and local laws prior to building.
Another great reference area on M4C is the NFA section. There is a whole lotta information there regarding NFA builds/items.
i am in the process of building an ar with a 10.5" barrel. i read somewhere that i may not be able to use a front sight gas block with a bayonet lug on it. is that true? also, i would need to use a pistol stock, correct? i haven't ordered any lower parts yet so i want to make sure before i buy anything and can't use it. i live in ohio if that matters. any info would help greatly. :confused:
next question. if i were to buy a 5.5" flash hider, could i use the rifle lower with rifle stock? it would bring the barrel length to a total of 16"s.
http://www.ftfindustries.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FI&Product_Code=AR-1%2F2x28HOLEBRAKE&Category_Code=ARMA
isn't that the same thing as my 14.5" barrel with a 1.5" flash hider, making it a total of 16"s?
i am wanting to build a short barreled rifle
Are you building a SBR (Short Barreled Rifle) or are you building a "Pistol" type AR?
You're not making it very clear as to what you"re wanting to build.
I have a 10.5" SBR and it has an "F" marked FSB with bayonet lug and there's no problems with it.
I'm not all too sure about OH laws regarding SBRs, I would suggest looking up your state and local laws prior to building.
Another great reference area on M4C is the NFA section. There is a whole lotta information there regarding NFA builds/items.
davidjinks
04-30-12, 18:45
Go here:
http://m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=9
Lots of great information for you to start with.
next question. if i were to buy a 5.5" flash hider, could i use the rifle lower with rifle stock? it would bring the barrel length to a total of 16"s.
You'd have to permanently attach the flash hider, but yes, that would be legal to use with a rifle lower. If you're going to go that route, you may as well just get a 16" barrel...I don't see the point in a 10.5" barrel with a permed 5.5" FH...
ETA: If you want to go the SBR route, do plenty of research on here. There is a ton of information. It seemed like a pain in the ass to me at first too but it's actually pretty simple.
If you want to build a Short Barrelled Rifle(SBR), you'll need to file paper work as mentioned above. Or...you could put the upper on a pistol lower, which in itself has it's own restrictions(less ideal choice IMHO)
I suggest you browse the NFA section and more importantly check your state's NFA laws.
For your next question: if i were to buy a 5.5" flash hider, could i use the rifle lower with rifle stock? it would bring the barrel length to a total of 16"s.
http://www.ftfindustries.com/mm5/mer...gory_Code=ARMA
isn't that the same thing as my 14.5" barrel with a 1.5" flash hider, making it a total of 16"s?
-- yes but it would no longer be an SBR. It would just be another 16" carbine, minus the benefits of a real 16" barrel.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=9830
You'd have to permanently attach the flash hider, but yes, that would be legal to use with a rifle lower. If you're going to go that route, you may as well just get a 16" barrel...I don't see the point in a 10.5" barrel with a permed 5.5" FH...
ETA: If you want to go the SBR route, do plenty of research on here. There is a ton of information. It seemed like a pain in the ass to me at first too but it's actually pretty simple.
i don't believe i would have to permanently attach it. the bushmaster i bought here in ohio didn't have it permanently attached and it is a 14.5" barrel. well i didn't buy it but my buddy did.
davidjinks
04-30-12, 19:08
If you're running a SBR upper on a non SBR'd lower, that's illegal. Unless said setup was with a pistol lower……..
Edited to add: I would definitely read the NFA section.
i don't believe i would have to permanently attach it. the bushmaster i bought here in ohio didn't have it permanently attached and it is a 14.5" barrel. well i didn't buy it but my buddy did.
If you're running a SBR upper on a non SBR'd lower, that's illegal.
Edited to add: I would definitely read the NFA section.
don't even have the parts from the mail yet. no worries there.
NoveskeFan
04-30-12, 19:11
Um...well, if you want to violate Federal Law...:rolleyes:
i don't believe i would have to permanently attach it. the bushmaster i bought here in ohio didn't have it permanently attached and it is a 14.5" barrel. well i didn't buy it but my buddy did.
davidjinks
04-30-12, 19:13
Didn't you just state you have a BM you bought, in Ohio, with a 14.5" barrel w/o a perm attached muzzle device?
don't even have the parts from the mail yet. no worries there.
was just curios seeming that it is adding length to the muzzle, wouldn't a, actually 6.5", said 5.5" earlier, muzzle break make it legal on a rifle lower, or a fake suppressor of at least 6.5"?
Didn't you just state you have a BM you bought, in Ohio, with a 14.5" barrel w/o a perm attached muzzle device?
that was a little over a year ago. that's the one for my profile pic. didn't mean to confuse.
don't even have the parts from the mail yet. no worries there.
The 14.5 barrel with the non-permed 1.5" Muzzle device mentioned above is illegal as well if it's sitting on a rifle lower.
I hope you dont take this the wrong way but you clearly dont have a good grasp on this yet. I suggest you read the stickies in the NFA section before doing anything else.
NoveskeFan
04-30-12, 19:20
You need to read the NFA laws before you proceed any futher:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/
The 14.5 barrel with the non-permed 1.5" Muzzle device mentioned above is illegal as well if it's sitting on a rifle lower.
I hope you dont take this the wrong way but you clearly dont have a good grasp on this yet. I suggest you read the stickies in the NFA section before doing anything else.
never ran it as a 14.5" barrel,always a 16". run a 20" barrel now.
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l499/jetorader/2012-01-26195654.jpg
let me re ask the question, if i put a 6.5" muzzle break on a 10.5" barrel, can i use it on a rifle lower?
was just curios seeming that it is adding length to the muzzle, wouldn't a, actually 6.5", said 5.5" earlier, muzzle break make it legal on a rifle lower, or a fake suppressor of at least 6.5"?
let me re ask the question, if i put a 6.5" muzzle break on a 10.5" barrel, can i use it on a rifle lower?
Yes it would (yes you can) but what would be the point of doing so? It would be like having a 10.5 inch barrel for the sake of having one, without getting its benefits. On the flip side, you'd now have a 16inch barrelled AR minus the benefits of an actual 16 inch barrel.
polymorpheous
04-30-12, 19:26
These members are trying to help you.
You have little to no understanding of NFA laws.
Please heed their advice and read the sticky threads in the NFA sub-forum.
Ok, there's a few things going on here.
First if you want to build an SBR with a 10.5 inch barrel, or any rifle with a barrel under 16 inches, you need to fill out some ATF forms and mail a $200 check to the ATF. There are a lot of threads on making an SBR on this board so take the time to read them.
With that said, if you currently own a rifle with a 14.5 inch barrel with a removable muzzle device then you have an illegal SBR. So it would be in your best interest to blind pin and weld that favorite muzzle device on so you don't run afoul of the local law enforcement and ATF.
I think you seem to have some confusion that if you just screw on something that makes the barre overall length over 16 inches it's ok but it's not. If you can unthread something and make the barrel under 16 inches then it needs to have SBR paperwork with it.
Does that make sense?
Dude listen. If you don't have the proper NFA paperwork and tax stamp your rifle has to have a barrel of at least 16 inches. If you have a shorter barrel like your 14.5 then the flash hider has to be permanaently attached ( as in welded ) to the barrel. If not you are breaking federal law.
If you want a 10.5 inch barrel without the paperwork you either A) have it on a pistol configured lower or B) have to weld on that 5.5 inch flash suppressor.
Edit: beaten to the punch above with a better response to boot.
let me re ask the question, if i put a 6.5" muzzle break on a 10.5" barrel, can i use it on a rifle lower?
ONLY if you permanently attach it to make the overall length 16 inches. And by perm. attach I mean pinned and welded so you can never remove it again without destroying something. If you're going to do that you might as well stick with a 16 inch barrel.
As far as the 14.5 you have right now, unless the muzzle device is perm. attached it's illegal without SBR paperwork if it's attached to your lower.
Ok, there's a few things going on here.
First if you want to build an SBR with a 10.5 inch barrel, or any rifle with a barrel under 16 inches, you need to fill out some ATF forms and mail a $200 check to the ATF. There are a lot of threads on making an SBR on this board so take the time to read them.
With that said, if you currently own a rifle with a 14.5 inch barrel with a removable muzzle device then you have an illegal SBR. So it would be in your best interest to blind pin and weld that favorite muzzle device on so you don't run afoul of the local law enforcement and ATF.
I think you seem to have some confusion that if you just screw on something that makes the barre overall length over 16 inches it's ok but it's not. If you can unthread something and make the barrel under 16 inches then it needs to have SBR paperwork with it.
Does that make sense?
this helps out very much and thank you. well im glad i don't have that barrel anymore then. buddy never told me it was an SBR. i don't think he ever tried to remove the muzzle break. i just tried one day and it came off with minimal pull.
These members are trying to help you.
You have little to no understanding of NFA laws.
Please heed their advice and read the sticky threads in the NFA sub-forum.
^Bingo. Read those over and over again and decide if you really want a short barrel. The process isn't that hard but it can seem confusing at first. There is additional cost involved as well as a (now very lengthy) wait period for approval.
Pinning a 10.5" to bring it to a legal 16" is not the answer. As others have said, its a lose/lose situation. I've purchased two pinned 14.5" uppers in the past because I wanted the shortest package possible without the time and effort and both times I decided I wanted a different brake/flash hider. That's when I decided to submit the SBR paperwork for a lower...
Im consolidating some of the above posts and putting this out there for the OP and anyone else new to ARs that runs into this thread...
1. An AR has to have a barrel of at least 16 inches. If you have a shorter barrel like your 14.5 then the flash hider has to be permanaently attached (pinned and welded) to the barrel. If not you are breaking federal law.
2. A. If you want a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR), you need to fill out some ATF forms and mail a $200 check to the ATF. There are a lot of threads (stickies) on making an SBR on this board so take the time to read them. -- http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15253
B. Second option for having a short barreled upper, is to put it on a "pistol" lower.
3. On putting a long muzzle on a 10.5 barrel, like a 6.1" flash hider, making its overall length 16.1", while feasible this is far from ideal.
- The longer the barrel, the higher the velocity and vice versa
- The shorter the barrel, the more maneuverable/handy/compact your AR is.
Going the the above route literally makes for a lose-lose scenario. You lose the velocity of a 16" barrel and you lose the maneuverability of a 10.5" barrel.
thanks guys. this really helped out. now to decide if i want to sell the barrel or go the SBR route.
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