View Full Version : The last week has been the biggest learning experience of my life regarding family.
Belmont31R
05-01-12, 20:53
Not going to get into any details here but family sucks. Not my wife or kids. Just in-laws... and my own dad and sister.
Never mix finances and family.
Don't feel obligated to go see someone who never comes to see you even though you've spent a lot of money going to them in the past.
Don't think a family 'promise' will hold up. When it comes down to it money is more important to the vast majority of people.
They will lie to you. They will **** you over in a heart beat. People are greedy.
And don't think to yourself 'my family isn't like that'. I thought the same thing a week ago. Now our entire life has been thrown upside down and shit on. It was our fault for being trusting, and thinking we could rely on blood relatives to uphold their end of a bargain. This isn't some stupid wild hair business idea or anything. Just Im probably never going to spend a dime going to see family again. Not going to go out of my way to help anyone of them.
MY family will be ok. Just a big change, some plans put on hold, and new ones coming forward.
Feel your pain. My father in law and I got in a fight about 4 weeks ago about my daughter wearing a helmet while riding a bike etc...long story short I was for it and he was against it. He said some things in my house and stormed out just before we were supposed to go dinner. Needless to say we didn't go to dinner and our relationship has forever changed all because of the way he acted. The one plus is that my wife and mother in law agreed with me which makes things much easier.
Hope it all works out my friend.
Not going to get into any details here but family sucks. Not my wife or kids. Just in-laws...my own dad and sister.
There is a real simple fix for that.
It was our fault for being trusting, and thinking we could rely on blood relatives to uphold their end of a bargain.
Blood means jack shit. Most of the scumbags of the world have blood relatives. To scumbags the relation is just one more thing to manipulate for personal advantage.
Just Im probably never going to spend a dime going to see family again. Not going to go out of my way to help anyone of them.
And there is the real simple fix I mentioned earlier. I'd actually recommend broken contact and alienation. Life is easier without bad people in your life.
Simply inform them they are no longer welcome and you don't want them around your family because they are not good people.
Dirk Williams
05-01-12, 22:34
Sooner or later everybody will let you down, its just the way life is. Learn from it, add it to your life lessons tool belt, and move thru it.
Life is the lesson.
DW
Moose-Knuckle
05-01-12, 23:40
Sometimes family ARE the worst people.
My wife wrote her insane, drug addict, alcoholic, abusive mother off over a decade ago and has never looked back. My wife has no family of her own, just me and my parents that she looks at as her own.
I've had to do this to the only grandfather I ever knew and a few others. Some like my sister and an aunt I keep at an arms length.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-02-12, 00:14
Ive got a cousin who lived with us before my dad passed away when I was a kid. She claimed to have been the only thing that held our family together during that, and her family (my moms sister) totally agrees. Apparently, the whole time she was living with us she was dealing drugs out of our basement. Fast forward 10 years and I find out that my youngest brother has a huge weed stash in his room, and this cousin was his confidant about all of his wrong doings. He was 15, she was 29. So, I sent an angry email telling her to **** off and stay away from my family. In the end, it tore my mom and her sister apart, and that entire side of the family now doesnt know what to think about me. I decided that since my actions were more than justified, if they wanted to take the side of a 30 year old pusher who failed at everything, then I didnt need any of them in my life. To this day they still email me about how wrong and evil I am for betraying the cousin who "kept my family together" during hard times. I just smile, click delete, and go about my day.
Blood doesnt mean everything to me. I love my wife more than anything in the world, and we share no biological relation at all. My immediate family loves me and I love them for it. I do have unconditional love in my heart for my blood relatives, but that love can dwindle down to nearly nothing if you dont deserve it.
Blood... I will always love them, but it does not mean I have to tolerate them;)
Belmont... prayers are with ya buddy!
Been there done that to the tune of $50k. One of the top 3 worst financial decisions of my life. Also, would visit my own mother and her husband 4 times a year 550 miles round trip, she comes to town 20 mins away calls me on the way back out of town, no visit ever. I don't talk to my relatives on both sides if I can help it.
RogerinTPA
05-02-12, 03:08
I cut bait on my sister over a decade ago after she ran into some money issues, and expected me to bail her out. Everything she touches turned to shit. If there's a way to **** it up, she will find it. I knew I'd lose out, but in the end, it proved beyond a doubt that she is completely ****ed in the head. Last time I spoke with her is when our mom past away a few years ago. Her boyfriend almost got thrown out of my mom's room on the fifth floor of the hospital, after trying to pull some redemption shit on me. I said "Dude you EVER see me again, it'll be some place you won't want to be"...the look on his face as he quickly departed the room, priceless...;)
IIRC you're relatively young, yes? 30 or so, maybe less?
Sooner or later you either become the tit that family tries to suck on, or the sucker. If you're the sucker you usually don't see yourself that way because you're all wrapped up in what you "deserve" and how "I'd do it for them". If you're the suckee it's only a matter of time before you realize that you're always giving and someone else is always taking.
However...
When you're laying in a pile of your own shit waiting to die, family is the only one that's going to clean you up and do their very best to care for you. There is not enough money in the world to pay a stranger to do it as well as family will.
QuietShootr
05-02-12, 07:30
Not going to get into any details here but family sucks. Not my wife or kids. Just in-laws... and my own dad and sister.
Never mix finances and family.
Don't feel obligated to go see someone who never comes to see you even though you've spent a lot of money going to them in the past.
Don't think a family 'promise' will hold up. When it comes down to it money is more important to the vast majority of people.
They will lie to you. They will **** you over in a heart beat. People are greedy.
And don't think to yourself 'my family isn't like that'. I thought the same thing a week ago. Now our entire life has been thrown upside down and shit on. It was our fault for being trusting, and thinking we could rely on blood relatives to uphold their end of a bargain. This isn't some stupid wild hair business idea or anything. Just Im probably never going to spend a dime going to see family again. Not going to go out of my way to help anyone of them.
MY family will be ok. Just a big change, some plans put on hold, and new ones coming forward.
Yepper. Always remember, you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family. Been there, done that, got the empty safe to prove it.
QuietShootr
05-02-12, 07:32
There is a real simple fix for that.
Blood means jack shit. Most of the scumbags of the world have blood relatives. To scumbags the relation is just one more thing to manipulate for personal advantage.
And there is the real simple fix I mentioned earlier. I'd actually recommend broken contact and alienation. Life is easier without bad people in your life.
Simply inform them they are no longer welcome and you don't want them around your family because they are not good people.
To quote Ulysses Everett McGill, "Once again we find ourselves in agreement."
I seem to remember a recent thread about the death of American institutions. Did anyone think that the "American Family" was going to be somehow immune to the degradation of selfishness and irresponsibility that has infected our society.
I'm curious - how many people who have fractured families actively participate as a family in some institution that commands moral leadership (i.e. church, military tradition, etc.)?
QuietShootr
05-02-12, 08:19
I seem to remember a recent thread about the death of American institutions. Did anyone think that the "American Family" was going to be somehow immune to the degradation of selfishness and irresponsibility that has infected our society.
I'm curious - how many people who have fractured families actively participate as a family in some institution that commands moral leadership (i.e. church, military tradition, etc.)?
I go to church on a semi regular basis (I'm not really sure why, but that's another issue). I know just as many people getting it on with those who are not their spouses in the congregation as in the general pop as a whole.
I am coming to the conclusion that "Mad Men" is as accurate a representation of the social dynamics that lasted thousands of years until recently. Alpha male gets married but still gets pussy on the side, everyone knows it, no one talks about it, kids don't know about it until they're old enough to do it themselves, and the world keeps spinning on its axis. It wasn't until recently that we insisted on dragging all the shit that happened behind closed doors out into public (which is at least partially on purpose, as it's a clear part of the Marxist plan) and our established social institutions started to crumble.
It wasn't that people were better before...it's that there were rules that people followed, and there was shame available as an enforcement tool.
When you're laying in a pile of your own shit waiting to die, family is the only one that's going to clean you up and do their very best to care for you. There is not enough money in the world to pay a stranger to do it as well as family will.
Unfortunately, this is not the case some of the time. I've seen family on multiple occasions stand by and watch someone suffer and die without trying to lend a hand. I agree that burning bridges with family over an argument or minor issue is a bad idea, but some of these people are just BAD PEOPLE. Nothing can change that, and there's no sense in keeping them around you or yours when they pretty much constantly plot ways to take advantage of you. I suppose it comes down to how often your family members are screwing you. If it's constant, they won't give a crap about you when you're dying, either. Sorry, I have on my bitter pants today. :D
Sooner or later you either become the tit that family tries to suck on, or the sucker.
Like I always say, it's hard out there for a tit.
It wasn't that people were better before...it's that there were rules that people followed, and there was shame available as an enforcement tool.
Amen to that!
I'm probably in a similar boat in that I go to church with my wife on an irregular basis and at gunpoint. This is because I have some serious misgivings about most religious institutions and their interpretation of the Bible. Personally, I subscribe to the Thomas Jefferson method of Christianity in that I am only concerned about the portions of the NT that can be most directly attributed to Jesus' own statements. Even if Jesus was nothing more than a human being, he had some constructive lessons on how to live one's life and treat others that deserve some level of consideration.
Having said that, I've often felt that organized religion served some purpose for maintaining basic social morals from their congregation. The Church is also one of those institutions that is suppose to directly support families through the institution of marriage. Perhaps it is as you say - the Church just made sure that the skeletons stayed in the closet.
For a while, I considered the military to be a similar institution that enforced some level of morals (or the appearance of morals) among its members. I've been in for about 17 years now and can say that enforcement of the standards is on the decline. The picture of the male Marines dry humping at their reunion is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Bottom line - most human beings need some institution to show them how to behave and enforce some standards. It should be no surprise that the family institution suffers as the support crumbles.
QuietShootr
05-02-12, 09:57
Amen to that!
I'm probably in a similar boat in that I go to church with my wife on an irregular basis and at gunpoint. This is because I have some serious misgivings about most religious institutions and their interpretation of the Bible. Personally, I subscribe to the Thomas Jefferson method of Christianity in that I am only concerned about the portions of the NT that can be most directly attributed to Jesus' own statements. Even if Jesus was nothing more than a human being, he had some constructive lessons on how to live one's life and treat others that deserve some level of consideration.
Having said that, I've often felt that organized religion served some purpose for maintaining basic social morals from their congregation. The Church is also one of those institutions that is suppose to directly support families through the institution of marriage. Perhaps it is as you say - the Church just made sure that the skeletons stayed in the closet.
For a while, I considered the military to be a similar institution that enforced some level of morals (or the appearance of morals) among its members. I've been in for about 17 years now and can say that enforcement of the standards is on the decline. The picture of the male Marines dry humping at their reunion is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Bottom line - most human beings need some institution to show them how to behave and enforce some standards. It should be no surprise that the family institution suffers as the support crumbles.
Red: Never hung around in married enlisted housing, then, eh, sir? :D
in all seriousness - that's exactly what I meant.
Red: Never hung around in married enlisted housing, then, eh, sir? :D
in all seriousness - that's exactly what I meant.
Great point. I enlisted in 1992 and was single up until about 4 years ago. So, a little drunken debauchery was expected in my circle of friends in those days. There was a no harm / no foul attitude because everyone was single and most of the girls were local civilians. I only made it to E-5 before getting a commission, so I never got to see how the senior NCO's behaved until recently.
Fast forward 13 years when I switched my commission from infantry to the medical corps and had to go through the medical officers basic course at Ft. Sam. These people could not keep their hands off each other. Students screwing students, instructors banging students, etc. was the norm and marriage meant nothing to these people. There were married people screwing at the Camp Bullis FTX (imagine 100 degree heat and no showers for a couple of weeks). It was the same picture a couple months ago at OCS when I was TDY at Ft. Benning. It seems that the attitude has become, "what happens on TDY, stays on TDY."
Then again, I saw similar behavior on theater deployments. I got to watch one reserve hospital unit in Iraq go through 2 CSM's due to the inability to keep their pricks out of the 19 year old PFCs. The physician staff was not much better as one active orthopedist (married) had a taste for young ass that got him sent packing.
Sad...
Anyway, I don't want to lead the threat too far astray. I've learned to avoid any new business adventures with family or close friends. There is just too much emotion to make rational business decisions with these people. I don't loan them money, use them as investment advisors, or embark on joint real estate adventures. I don't even feel comfortable giving medical advice to friends or family members. The one exception is when you are dealing with a family business that has been passed down for generations. I think that these have a much better chance of success since most parties have buy-in from a young age.
However...
When you're laying in a pile of your own shit waiting to die, family is the only one that's going to clean you up and do their very best to care for you. There is not enough money in the world to pay a stranger to do it as well as family will.
Don't hold your breath on that one.
The same people I unhitched years ago let their parents die unattended and unvisited in a county facility for indigents. They had already scammed every dime with promises to "take care of them in their time of need." They went so far as to gain legal control of their affairs and then sell the burial plots.
Don't hold your breath on that one.
The same people I unhitched years ago let their parents die unattended and unvisited in a county facility for indigents. They had already scammed every dime with promises to "take care of them in their time of need." They went so far as to gain legal control of their affairs and then sell the burial plots.
I think that the larger point is that family members have traditionally done better than the local granny dump at caring for the elderly. Granted, exceptions do occur, and those exceptions are become more frequent at the quality of the "average American" continues its decline.
It wasn't that people were better before...it's that there were rules that people followed, and there was shame available as an enforcement tool.
There are three types of incentives (and therefore disincentives)
Financial
Moral
Social
We have largely removed 2 & 3 leaving only #1.
Some of my immediate relatives are among the most narcissistic and dysfunctional people I personally know of anywhere. Haven't spoken to some in years, and I am a very sentimental person. But enough becomes enough and then you do what you have to do.
I think that the larger point is that family members have traditionally done better than the local granny dump at caring for the elderly. Granted, exceptions do occur, and those exceptions are become more frequent at the quality of the "average American" continues its decline.
I certainly won't argue that, I was just noting the exceptions.
Conversely, the few times my grandmother has gone into a nursing home temporarily following a hospital release, she got remarkably good care. When I went to visit her I expected the worst and instead found a very nice facility (covered by her very average insurance) that was staffed by extremely polite people who went above and beyond in terms of care provided.
Granted this was in small town Iowa so some of those "old values" are still lingering.
Belmont31R
05-02-12, 20:02
I certainly won't argue that, I was just noting the exceptions.
Conversely, the few times my grandmother has gone into a nursing home temporarily following a hospital release, she got remarkably good care. When I went to visit her I expected the worst and instead found a very nice facility (covered by her very average insurance) that was staffed by extremely polite people who went above and beyond in terms of care provided.
Granted this was in small town Iowa so some of those "old values" are still lingering.
Nursing homes and hospice facilities vary wildly in how good they treat their patients. My wife is in the nursing field and has worked at a few. She has never worked for a 'bad' one but they are out there.
Now she does home health nursing through a large hospital chain here, and they are a great place to work for. The patients get all the care they need.
If you want to get cared for as an elderly person save up enough money to get insurance or some other plan. Even if you have great kids they may not live close by or have the time to care for someone full time. They also probably don't have the training to deal with the medical needs of their parents. Many of the patients with mental issues like alzheimers need 24/365 supervision and care. That asking your kids, who may have professional careers with 1 or 2 decades of work they have put in, and asking them to quit, lose the income, toss previous hard work to get somewhere out the window, and sit at home all day baby sitting an elderly person. Then toss in 2+ kids and which one gets to toss their career out the window then pay for all the care they need? Some of these people have nurses out 2-3 times a week and they run well over $200 for one visit. If the parent didn't leave their kids a means to pay for all this how can anyone expect a child to pay over a 1000 a week between everything.
And people might be surprised how many older people are making bad decisions, didn't save much for retirement, ect. Certain situations can present cases where its too much ask a kid to take over someones full time care. Maybe the parent was an ass to their kids their entire lives. Im not going to automatically think someone is bad for not taking care of their elderly parent.
Belmont, those are all very good points. I think that it is a given that most of us will require some form of senior assistance. The key is preparing early - this means financially and logistically. Families must prepare early when they begin to see that a loved one's care will soon exceed there capacities or face very expensive options for reasonable care. Most of the best long-term care facilities have waiting lists and are very expensive.
Going back to your original problem, families with significant discord like you describe are at high risk of being caught flat footed when it comes to these issues. Inevitably, the estranged portions of the family resurface during times of tension and can really wreak havoc. I hope that you can get things patched up enough so that at least innocent third parties (i.e. kids) do not have to witness the fireworks.
Moose-Knuckle
05-02-12, 21:11
After watching one grandmother slowly die over a ten year period with Parkinson's disease and the other still clinging to life on her back being kept alive with tubes suffering from Dementia. . .I think if I make it that far I would go with the Kevorkian option.
It's ironic, if you’re an animal lover then you can relate, we put to sleep our beloved pets when their bodies just can't go anymore to end their suffering. It's the humane thing to do. Yet for our human loved ones we prolong their agony by keeping them alive via artificial means, i.e. machines and medications.
Recently I buried an uncle who lost his battle with Leukemia. He had a DNR order in place so when he went the paramedics/hospital staff kept him on a ventilator until his family could come to the hospital and say their goodbyes. After which he was disconnected and passed to the other side. It was peaceful and he did not suffer. It was closure for everyone and though we miss him dearly it did us all good not to see him experience a pro-longed suffering as his mother endured.
Belmont31R
05-02-12, 21:40
Belmont, those are all very good points. I think that it is a given that most of us will require some form of senior assistance. The key is preparing early - this means financially and logistically. Families must prepare early when they begin to see that a loved one's care will soon exceed there capacities or face very expensive options for reasonable care. Most of the best long-term care facilities have waiting lists and are very expensive.
Going back to your original problem, families with significant discord like you describe are at high risk of being caught flat footed when it comes to these issues. Inevitably, the estranged portions of the family resurface during times of tension and can really wreak havoc. I hope that you can get things patched up enough so that at least innocent third parties (i.e. kids) do not have to witness the fireworks.
Our kids our young enough to not understand what is going on.
No I don't think my dad is saved up for retirement. Part of the problem here is my sister enabling him to spend at least 150k out of his 401k in the last year. I had no idea until last week. Like I said people make poor decisions. She has basically ruined him, and is so manipulative 'we' are the bad guys. They have a lawsuit against them right now. I don't even know if he knows but at this point its not my problem. I looked up our county records and she had at least 4 warrants issued last year...one of them landed her in jail. She is bad news, and since my mom died she has managed to get him wrapped around his finger.
At least she is not a blood relative. She was adopted and I am biological. I can only think she has some ****ed up genes to make her a pathological liar and she has to manipulate everything/everyone. I have barely had any contact with her in years but one specific example is during my first deployment my mom forwarded me an email my sister wrote where my sister said the only reason I joined the Army was because I had to have pissed hot at MEPS and the Army is the only branch who accepts idiots and people who fail drug tests. I had first looked into the Coast Guard, and they said they had a 1 year waiting list with no guaranteed MOS's. I was like F that and joined the Army. Ive never pissed hot on any drug test in my life, and never done drugs in my life. My MOS in the Army had a clearance and my scores say Im not an idiot.
This issue is basically my dad owns the house we are living in, and we were paying the mortgage on it. Since my mom died my dad has been having my sister handle his financial stuff and she was supposed to be taking the money and paying the mortgage. Well she was pocketing it and the house went into foreclosure. She worked out some deal with them where she has to pay 400 a month in mortgage insurance, and now my dad basically gave us until the end of the month to be out of the house. She is also 2700 in debt to the HOA and hasn't been paying the HOA dues plus racked up legal fees, and they have a pending lawsuit. I didn't know any of this until last week.
Where is ****s over us is now we have to move into an apartment, and are having to sell off a lot of our stuff. Going from a 4 bedroom house with a 2 car garage to a 2 bedroom apartment with no garage. We've lived here for 4 1/2 years and built up great relationships with our neighbors. Just last month before I found all this out I went out and spent like $200 at HD on flowers, plants, fertilizer, ect. We will be fine financially but it really irks me on the short notice and barely giving us any time to prepare. We are going to lose our neighbors...our kids play together 3-4 times a week, we've gone out on 'double dates', ect. We can still keep in contact with them but its not the same when you're not living next to each other. We have informed our neighbors we are moving, and they have all pitched in to help. Maybe they just want us gone...lol No we have great relationships with everyone and one of them is buying my salt water fish tank setup since I can't have any aquariums in the apartment, and I gave him a nice deal on it since he's been wanting a SW tank for a long time. We already got approved for the apartment and they said we passed all the checks with flying colors.
I am pissed at my dad because he would not listen to me, and got himself into this mess relying on my sister. She is terrible with money, and has been arrested at least twice for bounced checks. After my mom died I told him to get a CPA or accountant or someone licensed to handle this kind of thing. He was working in Saudi and making over 20k a month. I told him he needed a professional to handle his finances and I told him to not let my sister handle anything. He didn't follow my advice, my sister ****ed him over, ****ed my family over, and even now he thinks she is so great because she coddles him and manipulates him.
Its actually embarrassing to me to have family like this...but at this point I don't really care. Seems like a lot of other people have ****ed up relatives, too.
We looked at renting a house but people seem to think their 15 year old house with a shitty weed patch lawn is worth 1200+ a month. We went into one with a realtor, 2 story, and when I got to the top of the steps the my nostrels got burned from the intense cat piss smell. Another one for 1150 a month smelled like someone smoked 3 packs a day in it and never opened a window. The yard was all weeds. So we are going into a really nice apartment home complex, and got an upgraded model. Comes with a wine fridge. If its thermo electric its going to be my new humidor. Built in surround sound. Nice pool. Outdoor BBQ pits that are pretty nice. Standard cable included. Have my own office space. All appliances included. Our own storage space, deck, own private entrance. We are just really bummed about losing our neighbors, our own yard, ect. Going to have to get rid of a lot of our belongings. All my yard stuff has to go, 4 fish tanks Ive spent a lot of money and time on have to go, have to pay all this money to move and pay money for this and that. Spent over $60 today on boxes and tape.
But it will be better for us. A change..but I think it will be better. Just have to get used to it. Tough moving from a nice house we have put a lot of our money into fixing things, last year I was spending $200 a month on our water bill to keep the lawn going during our drought, always kept lots of nice plants around and flowers all over the place, upgraded sinks and we paid like 5k last year for new flooring. We were told this house would be 'ours' and to treat it like it was ours. We did and am getting screwed.
Belmont, I'm sorry about your situation. I have no doubt that things will soon improve. Who knows what opportunities may be on the horizon...
Belmont31R
05-02-12, 22:15
Belmont, I'm sorry about your situation. I have no doubt that things will soon improve. Who knows what opportunities may be on the horizon...
We will be fine. Just a big change in things and sucks losing some of the things we have put a lot of time and money into as well as the downsizing. :)
VooDoo6Actual
05-02-12, 22:36
Sorry to hear. BTDT myself several times.
"The truth is everybody is going to hurt you, you've got to find the ones worth suffering for..."
Bob Marley
"If someone gives you a glimpse of who they are, believe them..."
SeriousStudent
05-02-12, 23:41
I'm sorry to hear of your problems. It sounds similair to what I went through with my ex.
There are challenges, but you will emerge stronger on the other side. The family memebrs will eventually figure it all out, and understand what happened.
Not much solace or comfort now, but it will get better. The good news, is that you have a place to go to.
And please tell me you are keeping the shooting irons, right?
Thinking of you, brother.
Belmont, I'm sorry for the tough times you are going through. Hang in there. Loosing things and some money aren't a big deal. They are both replaceable. Still sux, but they are merely things. The good news is that your name isnt on the title or mortgage which leaves you free and clear financially. You still have your health and your family intact. Youre still able to protect and provide for the ones you love, which is the biggest worry. Liquidate the assets you have to and put the money away or pay off debt so that you can begin saving for your own home. Things will turn around and you'll be stronger when you get through it.
Belmont31R
05-07-12, 23:19
Thanks everyone for the responses. My wife was able to check out our apartment we are moving into and she is pleased. We going to a nice place, and they have some nice units. Still need to figure out if the wine frigde is thermo electric, and if so it will be my new humidor.
Yes I should have seen this coming and been better prepared. My family is just ****ed up, and I should know better. I am seriously thinking about cutting off all contact with my dad at this point. He called on Sat and was very nasty with me for no reason. While I am upset at the situation I always try to deal with things as best as I can.
Have been really busy packing things up, and this weekend I spent about 10 hard hours getting my salt water fish tank moved into my neighbors house. I gave him a good price on the whole setup because I know he has been wanting a SW setup for a few years but couldn't afford it. I told him Id sell it to him at the price we agreed on but I could part it out for a lot more. So I am really happy he got his tank he wanted for a good price and since we have become friends I can always check it out.
Also giving one of my FW tanks to a kid in our hood. Our new apartment doesn't allow any aquariums so Im having to get rid of 4 tanks. The big one is already gone. 20gal SW is serving as a rest place for the fish going into the big one I sold my neighbor so we are doing that smart.
Just glad we have neighbors who care about us and it shows what kind of people we are to have the support we have gotten so far. No one wants us to leave and I actually have one neighbor who used to work in the same company my sister did. He said the same stuff about her as we did to the rest of the neighbors. We said we don't want to gossip but just want to make sure everyone understands how manipulative she is and what a pathological liar she can be. We didn't want to pack up, leave, and then have a master con artist come in and ruin our reputation with the people we have been friends with for years in some cases to a year in others as people have moved in and out. I don't think that is going to happen since we have an independent neighbor who had said the same thing, and really has no reason to lie. It was actually quite funny because a house opened up for leasing on the other side of our neighbors but I couldn't live that close to my sister. It would have been a good place but don't need that type of tension.
Anyways just going to spend this week packing what we haven't done so far and my wife is flying to WA on wed to spend time with her mom and dad. Going to be just me finishing up the packing and getting us moved.
There are three types of incentives (and therefore disincentives)
Financial
Moral
Social
We have largely removed 2 & 3 leaving only #1.
I would add one more incentive. First, some illustrations.
* A soldier giving his life for a total stranger.
* A mother and father giving of themselves to take care of and love a deeply handicapped Down Syndrome baby.
* Jesus Christ giving his life on the cross, as he believed (and I think he was correct) that he was the Son of God become man, and that he was dying to take the penalty of our sins.
* Christian believers in the early church, going to the most infected parts of Rome and cleaning up/caring for the sick and dying, with basically ZERO opportunity for payback/recognition/financial gain in this life.
* Mother Teresa doing the same thing in Calcutta.
What could cause a person to sacrifice themselves for someone else who may never be able to give anything back in equal proportion?
Love.
Yes I should have seen this coming and been better prepared. My family is just ****ed up, and I should know better. I am seriously thinking about cutting off all contact with my dad at this point. He called on Sat and was very nasty with me for no reason. While I am upset at the situation I always try to deal with things as best as I can.
Sorry to hear of the family difficulties. I observed some of this in my own family recently when my Mom passed away suddenly. One sibling, who is a very accomplished and intelligent person, had a rather unexplained meltdown and suddenly decided not to attend the funeral, and basically quit speaking to my Dad or to any of us (no reason given). Then when my other siblings, who were executors on the estate, started informing us about how aspects of the estate were to be divided up, this sibling magically (and temporarily) was willing to act civil via email. Then after that business was conducted, utter silence again. Won't talk to Dad, or any of the rest of us. I am pretty sure this one has not been wronged, at least not in any significant way. If there is a problem, it is mostly within the individual.
Anyway, this episode is nothing compared to what you've been through, but even so it makes me feel the frustration of family not doing what is right, even betraying you. I do feel for you and hope that things continue to improve financially, and maybe even that you can eventually be reconciled with your family.
Belmont31R
05-20-12, 16:03
In our new place and mostly settled in.
Our neighbors were a great help moving our stuff. We had 4 vehicles and I counted 13 people total. Got all the big stuff moved in 2 1/2 hours. We had so many people it went really fast. We had like 6 people in the vehicles and the rest stayed behind at the house to put stuff out front and load it when the "convoy" came back around.
Can't say the same thing about my family. After the big move weekend we spent this week tying up loose ends and cleaning up the house. Dad came over 3 times and 3 times he got all pissed off. One time for me taking our solid oak switch/outlet covers off even though I went to HD and bought all new plain plastic outlet covers for everything I took off of ours, a second time for taking the flowers and plants I just planted last month, and a 3rd time for the light bulbs which I had also just bought in the last month or two. I bought replacements just not the pricey ones I took out. Not sure why he wants us to leave hundreds of dollars worth of stuff we just bought...? Very odd behavior but as I said my sister has him wrapped around his finger.
Good news is my wife got accepted into a private university and her employer has a scholarship program to pay her to attend so she will get paid to get her BSN. Her employer sponsors the nursing school there so its basically a shoe in, and her employer is already the top employer of their graduates. We are really excited about this and all the people she works with want to write letters for the application. She also has the highest patient satisfaction report in the entire company for home health nursing.
SeriousStudent
05-20-12, 17:04
Wow, congrats to your wife! That sounds like a terrific opportunity. It will be a ton of hard work, but that's an excellent degree.
Can't say the same thing about my family. After the big move weekend we spent this week tying up loose ends and cleaning up the house. Dad came over 3 times and 3 times he got all pissed off. One time for me taking our solid oak switch/outlet covers off even though I went to HD and bought all new plain plastic outlet covers for everything I took off of ours, a second time for taking the flowers and plants I just planted last month, and a 3rd time for the light bulbs which I had also just bought in the last month or two. I bought replacements just not the pricey ones I took out. Not sure why he wants us to leave hundreds of dollars worth of stuff we just bought...? Very odd behavior but as I said my sister has him wrapped around his finger.
What they hell? Did they somehow end up with your house?
What they hell? Did they somehow end up with your house?
They were renting the house from his dad, so the house belongs to his dad, at least for the moment.
Can't say the same thing about my family. After the big move weekend we spent this week tying up loose ends and cleaning up the house. Dad came over 3 times and 3 times he got all pissed off. One time for me taking our solid oak switch/outlet covers off even though I went to HD and bought all new plain plastic outlet covers for everything I took off of ours, a second time for taking the flowers and plants I just planted last month, and a 3rd time for the light bulbs which I had also just bought in the last month or two. I bought replacements just not the pricey ones I took out. Not sure why he wants us to leave hundreds of dollars worth of stuff we just bought...? Very odd behavior but as I said my sister has him wrapped around his finger.
Call me what you will Belmont, but I am calling your bluff here. Something is wrong with your story and at this point I wonder what you are trying to accomplish.
You say that you made payments to your overtly hostile sister and she pocketed the money. You then say that your dad was completely unaware of the situation, yet when he finds out basically says "Oh well, tough shit, now move out immediately". You have a family with small children, so I have to ask myself who type of father could possibly be so black hearted?
To complicate the issue you seem to have no interest in taking any legal action, as you know I suggested privately. Your sister stole what must have been thousands from you and cost your family the home that you were paying for according to agreement, yet you make no mention of speaking with an attorney or taking any other recourse. No mention of an attempted negotiation with the lender to establish the surrounding facts, nothing. All we hear is what a fool dad is, which seems rather simplistic.
Then to top it all off, we hear that dad visits while you are hastily leaving and repeatedly gives you a hard time regarding trivial things like flowers and outlet covers, which would seem like little else than delivering a couple of kicks when you are already way down. With that, again you seem to be content to comment on his "odd behavior" but chalk it up to a hostile sister.
Sorry my friend, but you have displayed too much intelligence and insight here over the years to be going along so peacefully with all of this as stated. A detail is missing, likely a critical one. Regardless, I do wish the kids the best and hope they adjust well.
They were renting the house from his dad, so the house belongs to his dad, at least for the moment.
Now I get it...thanks.
Belmont31R you are completely entitled to the things you took since you paid for them.
You have a family with small children, so I have to ask myself who type of father could possibly be so black hearted?
Don't make the mistake of thinking they don't exist. I've actually experienced much, much worse from my Mothers father. Just realize you are fortunate to have so little experience with these types that you have difficulty believing they exist.
Don't make the mistake of thinking they don't exist. I've actually experienced much, much worse from my Mothers father. Just realize you are fortunate to have so little experience with these types that you have difficulty believing they exist.
Well then I suppose you didn't read post #22.
Anyway, there is more to this story, trust me. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to apologize wholeheartedly, but I don't believe I am. One thing I know about my bad relatives is not to trust them, and I certainly wouldn't have the worst of offenders present while I move myself and my family out under such ugly circumstances. Especially when they wrongfully created the circumstance in the first place. It would be the equivalent of the known murderer having the gall to openly hang out at the murder scene while mingling among the victim's family, while the scene is taped off and being allowed to do so. This also while criticizing the investigation.
Sorry but it's all too civil and simple given the stated events if you ask me. If his father was half of a human being he would have called the mtg company and raised hell about the travesty, not caved into it without question. And if he wouldn't do that, under the exact circumstances stated, then he wouldn't be allowed to be bitching at him while he is packing up. It would be an obvious recipe for disaster.
Well then I suppose you didn't read post #22.
Anyway, there is more to this story, trust me. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to apologize wholeheartedly, but I don't believe I am. One thing I know about my bad relatives is not to trust them, and I certainly wouldn't have the worst of offenders present while I move myself and my family out under such ugly circumstances. Especially when they wrongfully created the circumstance in the first place. It would be the equivalent of the known murderer having the gall to openly hang out at the murder scene while mingling among the victim's family, while the scene is taped off and being allowed to do so. This also while criticizing the investigation.
Sorry but it's all too civil and simple given the stated events if you ask me.
I did. And I get what you are trying to say. But I also remember being there.
There's something strange about when it's happening to you. You keep seeing them as "family" rather than the sadistic, money grubbing, morally bankrupt shitbags that they actually are.
Things used to happen right in front of me and my brain simply wouldn't process it. Now granted I was a young teen so I was more inclined to miss it all. Looking back I wonder what was wrong with me. There is also a powerful instinct to see family as family.
I could be wrong, you could be wrong, but it really does look like Belmont31R taking the first steps to recognize family members for who they actually are and still trying to reconcile that with his previous reality. At least that is how it appears to me.
There's something strange about when it's happening to you. You keep seeing them as "family" rather than the sadistic, money grubbing, morally bankrupt shitbags that they actually are.
Things used to happen right in front of me and my brain simply wouldn't process it. Now granted I was a young teen so I was more inclined to miss it all. Looking back I wonder what was wrong with me. There is also a powerful instinct to see family as family.
I only go by what I dealt with as an adult and especially as a parent. I had no illusions, just swallowed the jagged pill and moved on.
If my father was complacent in a case such as Belmont's, I would not only never speak with him again, but I would insist he keep a physical distance for myself and my children. Then I would sue him and my sister for being the devil incarnate.
I don't want be perceived as to kicking anyone when they are down or a Monday morning quarterback, especially regarding such a delicate matter. Obviously I wasn't there.
That said I have been through hellacious familial situations involving children and I tell you that, especially based upon what dimensions I have seen of Belmont over the years, he would not be standing there taking an earful from his father regarding missing flowers (from a home the bank is about to take possession of anyway) after he just needlessly and criminally lost his children's home due to his father's indifference or ignorance. Just not how it would happen for anyone anywhere if you ask me, no matter how gullible or meek they may be.
If my father was complacent in a case such as Belmont's, I would not only never speak with him again, but I would insist he keep a physical distance for myself and my children. Then I would sue him and my sister for being the devil incarnate.
As would I, and that is what I did. But not everyone is the same.
Belmont31R
05-23-12, 18:34
Call me what you will Belmont, but I am calling your bluff here. Something is wrong with your story and at this point I wonder what you are trying to accomplish.
You say that you made payments to your overtly hostile sister and she pocketed the money. You then say that your dad was completely unaware of the situation, yet when he finds out basically says "Oh well, tough shit, now move out immediately". You have a family with small children, so I have to ask myself who type of father could possibly be so black hearted?
To complicate the issue you seem to have no interest in taking any legal action, as you know I suggested privately. Your sister stole what must have been thousands from you and cost your family the home that you were paying for according to agreement, yet you make no mention of speaking with an attorney or taking any other recourse. No mention of an attempted negotiation with the lender to establish the surrounding facts, nothing. All we hear is what a fool dad is, which seems rather simplistic.
Then to top it all off, we hear that dad visits while you are hastily leaving and repeatedly gives you a hard time regarding trivial things like flowers and outlet covers, which would seem like little else than delivering a couple of kicks when you are already way down. With that, again you seem to be content to comment on his "odd behavior" but chalk it up to a hostile sister.
Sorry my friend, but you have displayed too much intelligence and insight here over the years to be going along so peacefully with all of this as stated. A detail is missing, likely a critical one. Regardless, I do wish the kids the best and hope they adjust well.
I skimmed through the posts and will try to clear things up.
The house was first bought in 2005 I believe while I was still single and actually in Iraq. My parents paid for the down payment and were the primary signers with my sister being co signer. So my sister and BIL lived in the house until late 2007.
Around mid/late 2007 my mom suggested my wife and I w/ our kids move into the house becuase my sister wanted a bigger house for her family, and we were told the house would be ours and we were given the mortgage info to start making payments. We moved in around mid Dec 07. I was still in the Army so I was flying back and forth between Ft Lewis and Austin from then until I got out in early Feb 2009. We were paying $1200 in rent on an Apt in WA so we figured paying $1180 a month on a house in TX was a lot better for us, and Id be getting out soon anyways.
So from Dec 07 to about the end of 09 I was paying the mortgage directly to Country Wide. I know they are now defunct and BOA owns the mortgage now. My mom died in Aug 2009 and a couple/few months after that 'suddenly' my sister was supposed to be paying the mortgage. My dad decided she should handle all his financial interests including doing his taxes while he was gone. He was working in KSA at the time, and had to come home for my moms service. My mom always handled their financial stuff so he no longer had anyone to do it. My sister started doing all his stuff, and its been a disaster since. I never got a really good reason why I was supposed to go to her to pay it but thats what happened. A while later we started getting foreclosure notices in the mail via certified letter. I told my dad, he would ask her, and she would give some BS answer to him (probably blamed it on us).
So FF to a month ago and I go to a 'meeting' with my dad and sister. Im told we have until the end of this month to get out, and its because we can't afford it. I asked my sister why we can't just keep paying the mortgage ourselves, and she gives me a vague answer talking about property insurance. I already knew the taxes and insurance was paid via the mortgage every month so the mortgage payment paid both of those. I asked her about that and she said the insurance paid under the mortgage didn't cover everything like there was 400 of extra "homeowners insurance" that suddenly cropped up. Im not sure what was said between them but I found out later it was because to keep the house from being taken she has to pay what Im guessing is mortgage insurance at 400/month bringing the total to ~1600 a month.
So since the house is not ours legally exactly what legal recourse would we have? Its basically a home owner letting someone stay in their house. They can evict us if they want. The HOA dues and mortgage are their responsibility. We never signed a renters agreement or anything.
Im not sure why my dad would kick us out of the house but it was a big shock to us. Im also not sure why he has been a complete dick since then. I can only make an educated guess that my sister has fed him a bunch of BS and he has heavily favored her since my mom died. When he would come back on RR he would spend 1-2 days with us and the rest with her. He has had her doing all his financial stuff. I told him to get a CPA or licensed firm to handle his money. When he was in KSA he was making 25k a month and she ****ed up his taxes so bad the IRS seized his bank accounts. He is completely clueless it seems. I know it sounds ****ed up but Im just telling you guys what I know. I don't know what she has told him or what he thinks the truth is. He came over to our apartment on Sat and we barely spoke. He left after watching TV for an hour or so. My dad is really clueless to finances or legalities of things. I did speak to him on the phone and was shocked when I heard him say he was taking money (with the penalty) out of his 401k to fund this band my sister was managing. He bought them a 100k tour bus plus all this sound equipment and shit. Its mind boggling and I cant explain it. I have no idea where all the money he was making was going as well. When you make 25k a month you have to try to spend it all. Plus he got a 80k end of assignment bonus in 2010.
You can call my "bluff" all you want but 1. I dont see a legal leg to stand on since it wasnt legally our house unless I somehow have a stake in it being a heir to mom who was on the mortage and 2. I don't want nor have the money to fight my family over a piece of property that is likely in foreclosure right now and is under suit from the HOA. I also think, since my dad is still living, all her "assets" would become my dads?
I will PM you safety hit. I still have legal notices I got and maybe you can put some more of the puzzle together.
Sorry if I don't expand on every detail. Over the past few weeks Ive only had time to log in late at night or if I get the off free moment and maybe not covered everything as well as I could have.
Man that sucks.
But honestly, you are well rid of them. You didn't have to put any money down or closing costs so basically all the happened was the promise of "rent to own" went away.
Small price to pay for the opportunity of seeing people for who they are. Could have been lots worse, might have been in a situation where you seriously depended on them for something important.
Tell your father he has made his decision and you hope he and your sister will be very happy together. Then sit back and wait for the inevitable "Your sister screwed me out of all my money" story.
In the meantime let them know they are no longer welcome and that you don't want them near your family.
The_War_Wagon
05-23-12, 20:48
Not going to get into any details here but family sucks. Not my wife or kids. Just in-laws... and my own dad and sister.
I live 700 miles from MY folks, and 1,800 miles from my in-laws. It doesn't get much BETTER than this, while remaining IN the continental United States! :D
RogerinTPA
05-23-12, 22:17
This reminds me of a gal I used to see last year. Her father (a Drunk) gave her and her brother (a drunk, drug user, an Army vet and they both get high together) his house, which is paid for (3 Br, 2 Ba, pool home, 1700 sq ft) and moved to a trailer park. She was finally feeling she was getting close to her family again after years of abuse and attitude from them. Not a week after moving in, the brother who is completely drunk, takes a swing at her. She runs out and calls the cops and her dad. Brother runs away. Cops and dad shows up, says he's the owner, and she (daughter) is lying on the Brother. Cops go away, yelling match ensues, she stays with a friend for the night. She gets back the next evening and all of her furniture and personal belongings are thrown into the garage, courtesy of Dad. She calls him up and ask whats going on. Dad said an eviction is whats going on. You're outta here! Her daughter had to stay with her biological father, while she was homeless for a week, staying on friends couches, until she found a place to stay. It's not the first time I've heard similar stories but it still blows my mind when I hear stories of how someone's immediate family can be completely heartless and treat an offspring worse than a stranger. It's beyond FUBAR.
Moose-Knuckle
05-23-12, 22:52
Man that sucks.
But honestly, you are well rid of them. You didn't have to put any money down or closing costs so basically all the happened was the promise of "rent to own" went away.
Small price to pay for the opportunity of seeing people for who they are. Could have been lots worse, might have been in a situation where you seriously depended on them for something important.
Tell your father he has made his decision and you hope he and your sister will be very happy together. Then sit back and wait for the inevitable "Your sister screwed me out of all my money" story.
In the meantime let them know they are no longer welcome and that you don't want them near your family.
This, 100 x over.
Belmont - am I correct in my assumption that this foreclosure is not on your record and that your credit has not been adversely affected? If so, it sounds like you are escaping this mess with minimal financial consequences.
Belmont31R
05-24-12, 02:46
Man that sucks.
But honestly, you are well rid of them. You didn't have to put any money down or closing costs so basically all the happened was the promise of "rent to own" went away.
Small price to pay for the opportunity of seeing people for who they are. Could have been lots worse, might have been in a situation where you seriously depended on them for something important.
Tell your father he has made his decision and you hope he and your sister will be very happy together. Then sit back and wait for the inevitable "Your sister screwed me out of all my money" story.
In the meantime let them know they are no longer welcome and that you don't want them near your family.
Yeah I just hate having to move away from our neighbors but doesn't mean we can't still be friends with them. Just sucks for my kids because they used to play with their kids several times a week and they've been asking about them.
As for my dad he is so delusional at this point Im not sure he'll ever see her for what she is. If he hasn't figured it out by now he never will. He obviously is good at his job but outside of that he has zero social aptitude. My mom always handled the bills and such. Hes basically never done it in his life.
Belmont31R
05-24-12, 02:49
Belmont - am I correct in my assumption that this foreclosure is not on your record and that your credit has not been adversely affected? If so, it sounds like you are escaping this mess with minimal financial consequences.
I've never signed anything on the house. When it was bought I was in Iraq and had nothing to do with it.
Let me say this. You are wrong for calling him out on this.
1. He was living in the house. He was not the official person on the mortgage and although he was paying "rent" so to speak he had no contract.
2. You obviously don't read the news much? How could his father do what he's doing? I don't know. What kind of mother or father murders their entire family? What kind parents sell their children into slavery or prostitution? It happens everyday-there are ****ed up people in the world.
3. People can be manipulative. Couple that with the fact that things started going to shit after the mother died and I'll bet that somehow the father didn't cope well with it. Add to that the sister "being there" and always around and one can see that she has used the situation to absolve herself of any wrong doing. As for why the father doesn't seem to get it, well who knows. Maybe he is still suffering emotionally or he may have mental health issues that are as of yet unknown.
I have known people that refuse to believe that their family member, significant other, child, etc... was a piece of shit drug user, criminal, "insert whatever" and it happens all the time.
Belmont came here to air his laundry for whatever reason. That means we also have to take his words at face value. If you disagree, then do so. But, don't call him a liar in his own thread because that's what you have done.
Call me what you will Belmont, but I am calling your bluff here. Something is wrong with your story and at this point I wonder what you are trying to accomplish.
You say that you made payments to your overtly hostile sister and she pocketed the money. You then say that your dad was completely unaware of the situation, yet when he finds out basically says "Oh well, tough shit, now move out immediately". You have a family with small children, so I have to ask myself who type of father could possibly be so black hearted?
To complicate the issue you seem to have no interest in taking any legal action, as you know I suggested privately. Your sister stole what must have been thousands from you and cost your family the home that you were paying for according to agreement, yet you make no mention of speaking with an attorney or taking any other recourse. No mention of an attempted negotiation with the lender to establish the surrounding facts, nothing. All we hear is what a fool dad is, which seems rather simplistic.
Then to top it all off, we hear that dad visits while you are hastily leaving and repeatedly gives you a hard time regarding trivial things like flowers and outlet covers, which would seem like little else than delivering a couple of kicks when you are already way down. With that, again you seem to be content to comment on his "odd behavior" but chalk it up to a hostile sister.
Sorry my friend, but you have displayed too much intelligence and insight here over the years to be going along so peacefully with all of this as stated. A detail is missing, likely a critical one. Regardless, I do wish the kids the best and hope they adjust well.
Reagans Rascals
05-24-12, 06:11
I learned along time ago... family doesn't mean shit... simply because you are related to someone by blood doesn't mean you owe them anything.
Your real family, are the ones you choose to have around you... not the ones you were born into...
Simply because you happen to share the same bloodline, doesn't mean you are required to like them, love them, tolerate them, or give any of your time or money to them...
I'm more than sure... those that have been in the shit... consider their battle brothers to be more family than their shit bag cousins, or their fat bitchy aunts...
I feel your pain man
I skimmed through the posts and will try to clear things up.
And you have done so extremely graciously. My sincerest thanks. Also note that I am not feeling like the smartest person on the planet right now primarily because of the wording in my quoted post. I would like to publicly apologize to you.
So from Dec 07 to about the end of 09 I was paying the mortgage directly to Country Wide.
This is a critical detail and not what was mentioned prior. We will talk privately about this later.
I never got a really good reason why I was supposed to go to her to pay it but thats what happened. A while later we started getting foreclosure notices in the mail via certified letter. I told my dad, he would ask her, and she would give some BS answer to him (probably blamed it on us).
Ok, so at this point you knew you were throwing money away. This is when you needed to act immediately, especially when talking with dad didn't work. But so be it, it's all a mute point now I suppose.
So FF to a month ago and I go to a 'meeting' with my dad and sister. Im told we have until the end of this month to get out, and its because we can't afford it. I asked my sister why we can't just keep paying the mortgage ourselves, and she gives me a vague answer talking about property insurance. I already knew the taxes and insurance was paid via the mortgage every month so the mortgage payment paid both of those. I asked her about that and she said the insurance paid under the mortgage didn't cover everything like there was 400 of extra "homeowners insurance" that suddenly cropped up. Im not sure what was said between them but I found out later it was because to keep the house from being taken she has to pay what Im guessing is mortgage insurance at 400/month bringing the total to ~1600 a month.
I don't even know where to begin with this, but all that you were told was a lie. Again, I will explain more privately.
So since the house is not ours legally exactly what legal recourse would we have? Its basically a home owner letting someone stay in their house. They can evict us if they want. The HOA dues and mortgage are their responsibility. We never signed a renters agreement or anything.
Please understand that I know this and have from the very beginning. While you lived there, and especially if you made the payments directly to the bank at one time, you needed to call them and explain your circumstance. If that failed (and I know it may have been very difficult if you are not on the loan), then you needed to contact a real estate attorney and at least obtain a consultation regarding the theft of the monies that were to be paid via the verbal, legally enforceable contract.
They could have then intervened to some extent and likely bought you precious time, possibly 6 months or more. But again, irrelevant now in that context. Still you almost certainly have civil options left and your sister absolutely should be held accountable for this blatant crime. At the very least she took your money while failing to advise you of the supposed problem she encountered.
Sorry if I don't expand on every detail. Over the past few weeks Ive only had time to log in late at night or if I get the off free moment and maybe not covered everything as well as I could have.
Please don't apologize. You're obviously a good guy and I made a mistake in judgment. I have an emotional stake in these types of issues and felt your pain, I swear to you. But that attachment led me astray here and to be honest I am still having a hard time understanding how your father was of such means yet is swindled so easily, even worse without assessing any accountability to the guilty party. And it just flat out makes me mad that your family suffered as a result.
Let me say this. You are wrong for calling him out on this.
At this point I wouldn't dispute that in the least. Lesson learned.
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