View Full Version : 1300 rounds through an M&P
Bluedreaux
05-03-12, 22:21
I know this won't come as a shock for most, but I thought it was worth sharing.
I recently picked up another M&P .40 FS. I took it out of the box and over the next little while put 1300 rounds through it. Some near, some far, some fast, some slow and never had a bobble with it.
At around 1200 rounds the slide started getting pretty sluggish going back into battery after a press check. 13 is a lucky number for me so I figured that 1300 rounds was as good a time as any for it's first cleaning and lube.
I've never had any worries about running my Glock 22 dirty and get a hard time from friends for it being so dry. 1300 rounds really isn't a big deal, but it's nice to KNOW instead of wonder how long this one will run.
1300 is an excellent run. I would typically go 2000 rounds before adding lube on my pistols. But I've done it so many times I'm kinda over it. I know they work and that's good enough for me.
Happy shooting!
packinaglock
05-04-12, 18:58
I guess i'm a clean nut, I field strip clean & lube each gun after every range visit.
I guess i'm a clean nut, I field strip clean & lube each gun after every range visit/hit.
Now that's just crazy talk right there :D
Bluedreaux
05-04-12, 22:33
I was gonna go for 1500 or a bit more, which is what made me a believer in my Glock. But after I saw it getting sluggish I couldn't justify the experiment any more on a daily carry weapon. If it weren't for the carrying I'd've just kept gunning it though for sure.
I guess this would be a good example of following the rule of two.
I was gonna go for 1500 or a bit more, which is what made me a believer in my Glock. But after I saw it getting sluggish I couldn't justify the experiment any more on a daily carry weapon. If it weren't for the carrying I'd've just kept gunning it though for sure.
range guns I'll leave dirty... carry guns if i go more than 200 rounds without cleaning it's rare. usually they get a wipe down and inspection once a week regardless of whether i shoot them.
I totally understand wanting to test out a gun when you get it but this not cleaning your gun stuff is having a dangerous implications on the ignorant.
I am hearing people at the club constantly talk about how many rounds they have through all their guns with out cleaning. This is crazy.
If there if even the slightest chance I'm going to need a weapon to protect myself or family it with be kept clean and lubed....especially a carry gun.
The only guns I had that I didn't clean until they almost stop working were my Bulleye guns when I competed. That's only because the pistol smith who built them told me to do it to prevent the gun from being taken apart and re-assembled to much; the theory being that the life of the accurazing job would shortened.
mrosamilia
05-05-12, 06:25
I guess i'm a clean nut, I field strip clean & lube each gun after every range visit/hit.
Myself as well.
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Bluedreaux
05-05-12, 13:34
When my department was testing the M&P they cleaned and lubed a new .40, then fired something like 12K rounds through it before it refused to chamber a round. Then they lubed it, without cleaning, and it went another 3K or so before they finally quit.
If my life depends on a pistol that needs cleaning after 200 rounds I've got problems.
If my life depends on a pistol that needs cleaning after 200 rounds I've got problems.
My thoughts exactly.
I just like my carry gun to be clean. I know it's reliable either way, but still.
Gary1911A1
05-05-12, 17:18
Some pistols just work better wet with lubed than other pistols. A Sig or 1911 generally require more cleaning and oiling than a Glock or HK.
My range guns don't get cleaned often but if it will be carried shortly there after (particularly if it's a semi auto) it will get cleaned and lubed after it gets shot.
hotrodder636
05-05-12, 18:07
Personally, I am not too terribly concerned with function if I don't clean for extended periods, however, I prefer a clean gun when I carry. It is what it is, I just do.
I got my ass reamed by my firearms instructor for showing up to qualify with a less than spotless pistol, guess I forgot to clean it after my last quarterly qual. Oops. But it's an HK, we only shoot 150 rounds a qualification and my pistol has NEVER malfunctioned on me so I wasn't too terribly concerned. I gave it a good cleaning that day anyway. With my range guns I clean them whenever, my carry guns I usually keep clean and always well lubricated.
if it took more than 5 minutes to clean a modern pistol i guess I'd see the point in going longer between cleanings, but there's just no advantage to not keeping your carry gun spotless. I'm not talking about hacking at it with a dental pick and emory cloth, I'm talking wiping out the carbon with a paper towel, running the bore snake through the barrel a couple times and relubing.
Littlelebowski
05-06-12, 08:02
I totally understand wanting to test out a gun when you get it but this not cleaning your gun stuff is having a dangerous implications on the ignorant.
I am hearing people at the club constantly talk about how many rounds they have through all their guns with out cleaning. This is crazy.
If there if even the slightest chance I'm going to need a weapon to protect myself or family it with be kept clean and lubed....especially a carry gun.
The only guns I had that I didn't clean until they almost stop working were my Bulleye guns when I competed. That's only because the pistol smith who built them told me to do it to prevent the gun from being taken apart and re-assembled to much; the theory being that the life of the accurazing job would shortened.
There's a huge difference between not cleaning a modern pistol after a range session and neglect.
Littlelebowski
05-06-12, 08:05
if it took more than 5 minutes to clean a modern pistol i guess I'd see the point in going longer between cleanings, but there's just no advantage to not keeping your carry gun spotless. I'm not talking about hacking at it with a dental pick and emory cloth, I'm talking wiping out the carbon with a paper towel, running the bore snake through the barrel a couple times and relubing.
That routine will not keep it spotless and do you really think your lube burned off in one range session?
Bluedreaux
05-06-12, 09:35
I got my ass reamed by my firearms instructor for showing up to qualify with a less than spotless pistol, guess I forgot to clean it after my last quarterly qual. Oops. But it's an HK, we only shoot 150 rounds a qualification and my pistol has NEVER malfunctioned on me so I wasn't too terribly concerned. I gave it a good cleaning that day anyway. With my range guns I clean them whenever, my carry guns I usually keep clean and always well lubricated.
That's ridiculous. Of course, if you spend all your te putting out little fires (dirty pistols) you can say you don't have time to deal with the real issues (people who miss or are just plain unsafe).
Littlelebowski
05-06-12, 10:54
I have found a direct correlation between amount of actual shooting and lack of anal retentive, obsessive cleaning.
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There's a huge difference between not cleaning a modern pistol after a range session and neglect.
My point is some people confuse this. I heard two guys at an IDPA match talking about 1000+ rounds through their carry gun without cleaning . I would never chance anything like that.
Littlelebowski
05-06-12, 13:39
My point is some people confuse this. I heard two guys at an IDPA match talking about 1000+ rounds through their carry gun without cleaning . I would never chance anything like that.
That's nothing to a properly maintained modern service pistol. Try it and see for yourself. It's not going to blow up or malfunction.
I'm just trying to figure out why? Its great to know that my M&P will go that long and still function, but whats the reasoning in letting it go that long?
That's nothing to a properly maintained modern service pistol. Try it and see for yourself. It's not going to blow up or malfunction.
I have. It works. I'm not going to carry a dirty gun.
There is an AR and a 1911 in my safe right now with over 500 rounds and counting fired without cleaning. However, my carry/HD gun is clean. I don't get the logic, sorry.
I'm wondering if the SEALs on the Bin Laden Mission(or any mission)left their base with clean or dirty weapons:confused:
As to the OP, I'm glad to see more evidence the M&P is a reliable platform. I have a 45 on order and will probably fire 1000 rounds prior to its first cleaning. If I'm going to carry it, it will be clean.
Littlelebowski
05-06-12, 16:13
Well, it's not an Internet gun discussion without invoking the gods of spec ops.
Well, it's not an Internet gun discussion without invoking the gods of spec ops.
It was on the news as I was typing but the analogy is valid, nice deflection though.
Highly trained troops would not knowingly go into harms way with dirty weapons.
Littlelebowski
05-06-12, 16:26
It was on the news as I was typing but the analogy is valid.
Maybe if you have never trained with or have been trained by the spec ops types. I can name at least Tier One trainers on this very forum that don't worry about cleaning a personally owned weapon with one or even a few range sessions through it.
I know what my pistol is capable of and do eyeball the innards every few hundred rounds but busting out chemicals and wasting my time cleaning every time I shoot (1-2 times a week) is asinine. It's almost like some sort of weird ritual people go through in order to make themselves feel better that they've paid their penance.
Or you could obsess about having a spotless barrel and fresh lube. Beats spending time dry firing or spending time with your loved ones, I guess.
I clean by blasting the the whole weapon with non chlorinated brake cleaner, running a few patches through the bore, and relubing. I'm due, I'm over 4k rounds without fresh lube or cleaning now on my carry/competition gun. No malfunctions.
Maybe if you have never trained with or have been trained by the spec ops types. I can name at least Tier One trainers on this very forum that don't worry about cleaning a personally owned weapon with one or even a few range sessions through it.
.
1- the post was about 1500 rounds
2- does this trainer go into harms way with a dirty weapon or just training?
Littlelebowski
05-06-12, 16:59
I was referring to their personal, carry, and training weapons.
What data do you have that proves that 1000 or 1500 rounds is the danger zone for carry weapons? Which weapons specifically?
I was referring to their personal, carry, and training weapons.
What data do you have that proves that 1000 or 1500 rounds is the danger zone for carry weapons? Which weapons specifically?
Just to play devils advocate, what info shows that a dirty gun is as reliable as a clean one? Sure they CAN be but, I'm sure a clean gun will always outperform a dirty one.
I was referring to their personal, carry, and training weapons.
What data do you have that proves that 1000 or 1500 rounds is the danger zone for carry weapons? Which weapons specifically?
None needed since this is a debate of theory rather that stats.....but are you infering the chance of a malfunction is equal between a clean weapon and one with 1500 rounds?
Littlelebowski
05-06-12, 17:35
Just to play devils advocate, what info shows that a dirty gun is as reliable as a clean one? Sure they CAN be but, I'm sure a clean gun will always outperform a dirty one.
Until a malfunction occurs and we establish with some degree of certainty that said malfunction was because of filth, there's literally no way of knowing.
My point is not to neglect your weapon but to rather get away from the silly waste of time of cleaning your weapon every time you shoot.
If anyone in this thread wants to run a postal match with their spotlessly clean, oh-so-beloved pistol and me and my dirty 21 yr old Glock I'm game. Find a third party to name the drills. We'll see if your time spent worshipping at the alter of chemicals and pistols helps you shoot yours better.
Emphasis on weapons cleaning may be related to universal service in WW2 and use of corrosive ammo. Only .30 carbine ammo was non-corrrosive, and some lots of other calibers used corrosive primers until the early 1950's. So, cleaning small arms has been a really big deal for decades and continues to be for training sergeants and other range staff. In one sense, it's a mindset that has been passed down. I inherited it but have eased up somewhat.
Bluedreaux
05-06-12, 18:17
Just to play devils advocate, what info shows that a dirty gun is as reliable as a clean one? Sure they CAN be but, I'm sure a clean gun will always outperform a dirty one.
Sure-sure, or pretty sure?
Because I saw no difference in 50 yard shots after 1100 rounds vs. clean and lubed.
The question is, have you ever tried it to know? Because I have.
Bluedreaux
05-06-12, 18:19
I'm wondering if the SEALs on the Bin Laden Mission(or any mission)left their base with clean or dirty weapons:confused:
I don't know if they were clean or dirty, but neither do you....
yhmspecter
05-06-12, 19:36
well I know some people that are very anal about keeping their weapon white glove...But in modern service pistols Im with Lebowski on this, in the past few weeks I'm coming off of two weekends of training and some IDPA fired almost 3k and it (m&p9) hasnt been cleaned...I cleaned it before the class on the first weekend and I have been carrying the pistol as well
I don't know if they were clean or dirty, but neither do you....
The most proven reliable weapon has been test fired since it's last disassembly and cleaning. I'd expect them to have a bit of fouling and adequate lube. ;)
That's ridiculous. Of course, if you spend all your te putting out little fires (dirty pistols) you can say you don't have time to deal with the real issues (people who miss or are just plain unsafe).
I thought about it, and I did take time during the day after I qualified last time to clean and lube it. I guess because I didn't use the dental pics, etc. it wasn't clean enough so I heard about it. :eek:
Bluedreaux
05-06-12, 22:20
An instructor who enjoys feeling superior shouts at you for having a dirty weapon.
An instructor who wants you to become a better shooter is disappointed your weapon is still clean since your last qualification.
I'm #2.
Oh, goody, yet another cleaning thread.
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1602/rabbitbangingchicken.jpg
If an in-between-molecules cleaning process that takes place upon a timetable based upon the horarium of the Order of St Benedict is part and parcel of one's woobie/security blanket/personal rituals...that's absolutely fine; it's your firearm, your time, etc.
But, please have the objectivity to just own that fact, and speak to it in those terms...without resorting to invoking the [hushed, reverent tone] SeALs [/hushed, reverent tone].
1000 or more rounds between cleanings on a modern, duty-grade handgun....or duty-gread AR....is "chancing" nothing more than getting some lube/carbon smut upon clothing you may not wish to dirty.
Particularly when nobody's fast-roping out of a helo or emerging from some orifice on the hull of a submarine....:rolleyes:
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