Noveske Recon vs Light - Rifle Balance Question

[TangoSauce]

I'm putting together a Noveske recce with either the SS Recon or Light. The Recon has the edge in that the original recce was a heavy SS as well as having a bit more ruggedness to it. I've heard people really like the Light though for obvious reasons.

So the rail will be a DD Lite 12 and the stock will be an UBR. If anyone has handled similar rigs, will the Recon give a more balanced feel with the UBR or will the Light still be gtg?

Thanks

[vicious_cb]

Ask yourself if you really need the precision of the SS recon barrel. That should dictate your barrel choice, not the balance of the rifle.

[MistWolf]

How much do you think the UBR really changes the balance of a rifle? I have a lower with a CTR stock and one with the UBR. The point of balance only changes a couple of inches between the two.

Here is the balance point of my carbine with stainless steel government profile barrel and the CTR stock fully closed
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_00012.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_00042.jpg

and with the UBR fully closed
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0005.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0006-1.jpg

As you can see, the shift in balance isn't much. In truth, I feel the extra weight of the UBR more than I feel the shift in balance. The only way to know if the shift in balance is worth the extra 1/2 pound or so of the UBR is to try it yourself

[jpmuscle]

On my most current build I'm using a D&D 16" govt profile barrel, D&D 14" lite rail, Noveske gen II lower and UBR.

Switching between the UBR and the CTR even with the RISR made for a notable difference in balance with the UBR feeling better over all. Ill concede she feels a bit piggish tho. That said I think you would be splitting hairs but if precision is your primary concern go with the recon and the balance be dammed.


Or go with a different rail (NSR for example)

[vicious_cb]

As you can see, the shift in balance isn't much. In truth, I feel the extra weight of the UBR more than I feel the shift in balance. The only way to know if the shift in balance is worth the extra 1/2 pound or so of the UBR is to try it yourself

I came to exact same conclusion myself. Sold the UBR and went to an A5 buffer system and ACS-L

[Jester67CA]

16" Recon - 35oz w/ gas block
16" N4 Light CHF - 29oz w/ gas block

Both will almost certainly be more accurate and durable than you unless you plan to do precision work.

IIRC, there's a Lightweight Stainless that weighs the same as the Noveske N4 Light Barrel. This is also the same as a "standard" government profile.

I'd start with the Recon and then see if you can justify the Light. Molon achieved some seriously impressive groups with the 16" Recon. It's also doubtful that you'll shoot out either barrel so the added durability of the N4 Light will probably be irrelevant.

I'd think about what you're going to use the gun for and if you're still unsure go for the slightly heavier Recon. The light DD rail combined with the heavy UBR should give you a good balance. I've shot a 16" VTAC/Noveske with a Recon profile barrel, VTAC TRX Extreme, and VLTOR IMOD and it felt like it balanced neutral.

[rainman]

I'd also be curious as to the durability of the SS/Light and how much groups open up when it gets hot. I'm thinking that if people are using the Light for 3-gun, it must still hold accuracy pretty well.

I own an 18" Recce but think the 16" SS/Light looks interesting.

Good luck with your choice and keep us posted.


-Rainman

[TangoSauce]

How much do you think the UBR really changes the balance of a rifle? I have a lower with a CTR stock and one with the UBR. The point of balance only changes a couple of inches between the two.

Here is the balance point of my carbine with stainless steel government profile barrel and the CTR stock fully closed
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_00012.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_00042.jpg

and with the UBR fully closed
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0005.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0006-1.jpg

As you can see, the shift in balance isn't much. In truth, I feel the extra weight of the UBR more than I feel the shift in balance. The only way to know if the shift in balance is worth the extra 1/2 pound or so of the UBR is to try it yourself

Good to know. I've just seen that most people with the Recon tend to always comment that they wish the barrel was a bit lighter, they also were running a collapsible stock. Everyone I know who has an UBR tends to say it's a bit heavy except on longer rifles (I don't own an UBR so haven't felt it out). Figured the combination of the Recon and UBR would end up making a better pair, but it sounds like either would work.


I'd also be curious as to the durability of the SS/Light and how much groups open up when it gets hot. I'm thinking that if people are using the Light for 3-gun, it must still hold accuracy pretty well.

I own an 18" Recce but think the 16" SS/Light looks interesting.

Good luck with your choice and keep us posted.


-Rainman

I'm of the same curiosity as you on this front. I saw some comparisons in an old thread mentioning that the Lightweight is pretty good at holding it's own versus say a DD barrel that opens up about an MOA by going to the light barrels.

[feedramp]

Their 16" SS barreled models are called Recons. Their CHF-barreled 16" models are called Light Recces.
But the CHF barrel profile is not a pencil profile from what I can tell on their website, they are standard profile, which Jester67CA referred to as "standard government profile". Okay, that makes sense so far.

So the SS barrel weighs more than the CHF barrel, but what in the world does this mean: "the Lightweight weighs the same as the Noveske N4 Light Barrel." :confused:

[Jester67CA]

But the CHF barrel profile is not a pencil profile from what I can tell on their website, they are standard profile, which Jester67CA referred to as "standard government profile". Okay, that makes sense so far.

Not quite, but close. The Noveske profile on the N4 Light Chrome Lined Barrel is the same overall weight as the government profile, but is a different profile by Noveske which moves more of the weight under the handguards and eliminates the "M4 cut."



So the SS barrel weighs more than the CHF barrel, but what in the world does this mean: "the Lightweight weighs the same as the Noveske N4 Light Barrel." :confused:

It means that this barrel:
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z49/VRX_photos/Noveske%20CGN/b-18-556_1d-1.jpg
16" Lightweight Profile Stainless Steel

Weighs the same as this barrel:
http://www.rainierarms.com/img/shop/product/37db5f217d14a340861231daf4111975.jpg
16" N4 Light CHF Chrome Lined

At 29oz with gas block.

The Lightweight Stainless is a lighter version of the medium contour Recon Stainless Steel barrel.

[TangoSauce]

Not to get too far off topic to my OP, but I'm surprised the SS and CHF barrels cost the same, but the CHF uppers are about a hundred bucks cheaper than the SS.

[TWR]

I have a SS 16" light barrel, it's a tad heavier than my 16" Colt pencil barrels but of course shoots better. I ran it with a CTR stock but recently switched to a SOPMOD stock.

I had a 1.5-5 Leupold on it and shot 3/4" 5 shot groups with 77gr SMK reloads using TAC powder. I have since switched to a 2.5-8 scope and I don't see the impact shifting when the barrel gets hot but I don't do mag dumps, I hunt with it.

I have another gun with a 17" Krieger RECCE barrel rigged close to the same and the 16" light gun just feels better. Both of these resemble Noveske's Rogue Hunter, a fine platform in my opinion.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/TOM64/ar.jpg
16" weighs 8.4 pounds as shown, 17" weighs 9 even. The 17 will out shoot the 16 but the 16 feels alive and is carried more.

[SkiDevil]

I have the Noveske 16" Stainless barrel and a Daniel Defense M4 12.0 rifle rail on this rifle [Weight without a magazine/ unloaded ~9.5 LBS].

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/SkiDevil01/NoveskeandShortDot106.jpg

It is slightly muzzle heavy with the MagPul CTR, but that is how I prefer my rifles for shooting off-hand.

I believe with a UBR it should off-set/ compensate for the added weight of the stainless steel barrel.

BTW, the Noveske stainless steel barrels are very accurate. I have shot close to 1" groups at 100 yards with a 4 power Short Dot and reloaded 55gr ammo, supported off-sand bags and rested on a bench.

After trying a dozen or so factory loads, even though it is a 1/7 twist, mine seems to prefer 55gr projectiles. I have had the best luck with the standard pressure .223 rounds, the 5.56 rounds don't seem to be nearly as accurate.

Also, I have tried the .223 Hornandy 75gr TAP rounds and they were shooting at around 1 1/2" - 2" groups at 100 yards. In contrast, the 55gr TAP rounds are the most accurate rounds that I have fired out of that rifle. If you purchase either barrel, try several loads.

Irregardless, I don't think either barrel would disappoint you in the accuracy department, if you do your part.

Lastly, In my opinion, for the extra 6 ounces, I would prefer the Recon over the lighter weight Rogue model, but that's just my preference.

As others have said in the past, I would simply prioritize what is most important to you and choose the barrel with that intended purpose in mind.

SkiDevil


For your consideration:

USMC03 provides a primer on various stocks related to the type of build/ rifle which could be helpful in your decision:

Link: http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/ar15-buttstock-considerations

[feedramp]

Jester - thanks for the education :)