Any EMT's in here? [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

LowSpeed_HighDrag

05-05-12, 11:30

Im getting out of the military within the next 4 months. Im very interested in emergency medicine, and Ive always been fond of helping those in need. I have never been a math guy, life science was ok but chemistry was a mess for me. Im more of a history/english person, but I think I can apply myself and do alright in biology/anatomy oriented classes.

A little about myself:
-4 Years, Active Duty Marine Corps, Numerous Personal Awards, *soon to be* Disabled Combat Veteran.
-Neat and professional, fit, enjoy high stress environments, like to work with people, not squeamish in the least
-Married, no kids. Need to make about 35,000 a year to sustain my lifestyle with the amount my wife is making currently. Will need to work at least 25 hours a week while taking EMT courses.

I was wondering if anyone here is an EMT, and if so, maybe you could answer a couple of questions for me?

1)Since the GI Bill is covering my tuition, should I:
-Start with my EMT-B cert and try to get hired from there?
-Take the Front Range Pre-Paramedic cert, which is 2 semesters of EMTB, EMT refresher, anatomy, emt intravaneous, basic EKG, medical terminology, and clinicals?
-Or find a college that does Paramedic as an Associate degree in 2 years of class time (Im having a hard time finding one on google that is within 1 hour of my home)?

2) Since I am not a math oriented person (we're talking counting on fingers and toes here), am I asking for trouble by going into this field?

3) "The Internet" says that the EMT field will grow by 30% from 2010-2012. Are you guys seeing alot of new positions open up, and if so how often are you seeing fresh hires with no applicable work experience coming in?

4) Knowing what you know now, would you still be an EMT or would you have taken a different path?

5) Generally, what is the average pay for a new guy in this field?

6) I have a few visible tattoos, they are tasteful but large and not gang related (forearm, bicep, and above elbow area). Do you foresee this keeping me from getting hired? Is it normal for EMT's to wear long sleeves on the job?

7) I have some significant hearing loss with a service-connected disability. I can hear pretty well, but not according to those damn sound booths. I do have hearing aids, but hate the goddamn things. Will this possibly keep me from getting employed?

Last but not least...

8) Are you satisfied with your job?

Hmac

05-05-12, 11:46

As a long-time Medical Director for our ALS ambulance service, I'd suggest that you aim for the EMT-P route with an eye toward a college degree and subsequently becoming a Physician Assistant. The pay for a PA is about 3x that of EMT-P. If that route isn't feasible, being a Paramedic is a good job and should meet your expectations. Demand will continue to be high. At our shop, your tatoos wouldn't likely have a significant effect on hiring, as opposed to visible piercings or face/neck/hand tattoos. Some EMT-P jobs contain alternate pathway opportunies that can be useful. We, for example, cross-train and certify all our Paramedics as Respiratory Therapists and they do all the RT and ventilator management or ER Tech at our facility when not actually on a call or transfer.

The_War_Wagon

05-05-12, 12:01

Paging Gutshot John. He's former Navy, and a professional EMT here in da' 'Burgh.

dmaxfireman

05-05-12, 12:51

I am a firefighter / EMT, originally only went the EMT route to get the job but now I am glad I got it.

If you want to focus primarily on the emergency medical field I STONGLY suggest going with a Paramedic program it will give you the best bang for your buck. I am assuming you have basic first aid experience from the military to give you some real life experience. As for the college part if you choose I would take all the prerequisites for a PA or RN program for down the road. Although becoming a PA or RN will never give you the high-stress environment you are looking for. I also prefer the "high stress" environments, I don't know if I could ever handle a desk job.

ofdlt

05-05-12, 14:08

I was in the same boat some 20 yrs ago. Just finished my 8 years in the suck and needed something to do. If you are strickly interested in the medical field, then by all means persue that. Use your GI Bill for an RN or PA degree via a paramedic route. Many locals have bridge programs that take into account your PM training. With that said the medic or emt only route will lead to a boring job as a taxi driver in a van with lights. Many EMS systems are now two tier, with the FD getting the initial dispatch and a private ambulance getting the transport. On the private the work is already done when you arrive and you get to sit at triage with your pt...; ie hugging the wall. The economic times of today now have the local govenments wanting to cash in on insurance and god forbid obama care. Many municipalties, mine included are begining transport to pay the bills thus forcing the private ambulance compines out.
To sum this up I went the Fire Department route, to be in the action and to have the stability and benifits a municipality offers. If you want to provide actual care to people who need it on the street; the FD is and/or will be the best option imho.
I am an Engine Company officer and will be happy to provide any additional info. Best of luck with whatever you choose and that Marine service opened many doors for me. Semperfi.

NCMedic

05-05-12, 14:47

I have been in EMS for 15 years, 10 as a Paramedic, in several states so I will do my best to answer your questions however it depends on what area of the country you will be living in as to what options are available to you. Depending on where you are located, EMS may appear in several forms, it maybe fire based, private for profit, nonprofit or volunteer based, third party, etc. There are different opportunities within EMS as well, as others have pointed out, I will assume that you are wanting to do 911 emergency work and not non-emergency transport or convalescent work. Figure out how your area works and plan accordingly. Are you wanting to make this a career or a stop gap until something else?
I'm a proponent of working your way up the system, I would get your EMT-B certification and then try to get hired doing transfers and get a feel for it, if you don't like doing transfers, 911 work won't be all that different, it will get you a feel for how things work as well as get you used to dealing with patients, hospital staff, etc.
I wouldn't worry about the math too much, there's a app for that. You shouldn't be doing drug calculations on the fly in your head anyhow.
EMS will always have a high attrition and turn over rate due to multiple factors, people will always get sick or injured. EMS is a relatively new occupation, constantly evolving and changing.
Get a degree, you can use it to step to other fields if you want, if you stay in EMS for any length of time, most places will require a degree for promotion. Pay depends on area. SW Pennsylvania $10-12 /hr is pretty good for a Paramedic, in NC where I am now, high 30s is starting for new medics.
As far as tattoos and piercings, that is service dependent. We have to have all tattoos covered, the fire department does not.
You will be able to hear patients, listen to lung sounds, listen to a radio, talk on a phone... I have worked with a medic who had significant deafness, she wore hearing aids and had amplifying stethoscope, I've worked with medics with one arm, part of a hand, etc.
I still do enjoy EMS after all this time. Good luck to you, shoot me a PM if you want and I'll try and help you out anyway I can.
Sent from this... Using that...

NinjaMedic

05-05-12, 21:35

FWIW here in Austin I made $63,500 my first year with OT as a paramedic. Starting pay for EMT-B's (Medic 1 in our rank system) is 14.90/hr with no experience. In November we should also have full Civil Service protections. Not sure if relocating is a possibility . . .

NinjaMedic

05-05-12, 21:53

1)Since the GI Bill is covering my tuition, should I:
-Start with my EMT-B cert and try to get hired from there?
-Take the Front Range Pre-Paramedic cert, which is 2 semesters of EMTB, EMT refresher, anatomy, emt intravaneous, basic EKG, medical terminology, and clinicals?
-Or find a college that does Paramedic as an Associate degree in 2 years of class time (Im having a hard time finding one on google that is within 1 hour of my home)?

Get your paramedic now! It will be much much harder to leave an entrenched position and re-enter a medic program later on.

2) Since I am not a math oriented person (we're talking counting on fingers and toes here), am I asking for trouble by going into this field?

No, there is actually limited math in EMS and once you are on the truck you should be using job aids and quick reference charts than trying to do math at 3am with a sick kiddo and a stressful situation. You will be able to learn what you need to.

3) "The Internet" says that the EMT field will grow by 30% from 2010-2012. Are you guys seeing alot of new positions open up, and if so how often are you seeing fresh hires with no applicable work experience coming in?

We have approximately 50 vacancies currently and are planning to staff 5 new units in the next budget year so we are likely to be 100 vacancies down by fall.

4) Knowing what you know now, would you still be an EMT or would you have taken a different path?

I left firefighting to go to EMS for the money. I have had opportunities that I never would have had a result and would not look back.

5) Generally, what is the average pay for a new guy in this field?

See my post above for Austin most other areas in the country are in the range of 8-10/hr for basics and 10-12/hr for paramedics. Typically it is a very low paying field especially compared to firefighters and police in your area.

6) I have a few visible tattoos, they are tasteful but large and not gang related (forearm, bicep, and above elbow area). Do you foresee this keeping me from getting hired? Is it normal for EMT's to wear long sleeves on the job?

Depends on the community. In many places it absolutely can be a deal breaker. In Austin it is absolutely a non-issue but we have a very liberal community that we serve. Very few of us wear long sleeves except in dress uniform.

7) I have some significant hearing loss with a service-connected disability. I can hear pretty well, but not according to those damn sound booths. I do have hearing aids, but hate the goddamn things. Will this possibly keep me from getting employed?

I doubt it, its not a condition of employment for us. We will do a pre-employment hearing test and annual thereafter to document the hearing loss that WILL come as a result of being in public safety. That said, as long as you are functional and can adequately auscultate lung sounds and blood pressures, hear a normal conversation so you can interview a patient, and also monitor your portable radio so you can stay on the net then you will have no issue.

Last but not least...

8) Are you satisfied with your job?

Absolutely! With the caveat that my organization is fairly unique and has a robust special operations section and has some incredible opportunities as a result.

NinjaMedic

05-05-12, 22:00

Here is a short promo video of our Rescue Medics. Within Spec Ops we also have a Tactical, and a HazMat section in addition to the Rescue section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-HjWp98NFg

LowSpeed_HighDrag

05-06-12, 08:17

Wow, this thread is really motivating me. I’ve been terrified of getting out and have recently been considering staying in for another 4 because I just felt like there wasn’t a future out there.

As far as becoming a Paramedic right off the bat, apparently all of the AAS Paramedicine courses require at least EMT-B and some experience before enrolling, which means its a no go for me. That leaves me with the Pre Paramedic class, or the EMT basic class. I think the Pre Paramedic is probably the better program as it mirrors EMT-I for a lot of other states, which will probably make me more marketable in the long run, and make the transition from EMT to Paramedic that much easier when/if I finally take that route. I wish I could do the Paramedic program as it is far less taxing on my GI Bill, would give me an Associates, and would possibly open me up to more job opportunities, but such is life I suppose.

HMAC, I really like the thought of becoming a PA someday, but right now I'd like to get into the medical field as soon as possible so I can get a taste for it and see if I want to continue from there. Plus, from what I have heard, PA schools are extremely competitive and I have heard that having experience in the medical field plus a related degree works wonders for getting into a PA program.

DmaxFireman and ofdlt, I hadn't even thought about the firefighter aspect of EMS until you guys brought it up. That’s also something I was always interested in and have always wanted to at least be a volunteer firefighter. Ofdlt, I appreciate the advice and the knowledge in your post. I will certainly apply to as my fire departments as I can as well as EMS.

NCMedic, I get what you are saying about working your way up, and its something I am more than willing to do. In your experience, are employers reluctant to hire fresh paramedics because they had no medical experience as EMT's first?

NinjaMedic, thanks for all the info brother. 63,000, I assume, is not the norm, but would be amazing if I could even get close to that amount. I dont think we could uproot and move to Austin from Northern Colorado, at least not unless I had a guaranteed job with over $45K a year AND some tuition assistance to become a Paramedic, which Im sure is totally unrealistic. Your dept looks awesome, I can only hope to get involved with a program like that.

chuckman

05-06-12, 09:17

My two drachmas: I retain my EMTP, although I rarely work the field any more (full time RN). I started EMS in 1990. It is a great job, but heed the advice to get your EMTP. EMTB is part of the curriculum, so you'll get that, but the pay is a fraction of what you will make as a paramedic.

Sadly, there is less reliance on math than there used to be. Is it 'easier' now? Yes. Does that make people more mistake-prone? Yes.

In my area there is such a shortage of medics that some services have started their own 'medic academy,' training them to be medics and then having them sign an employment contract (3 years, I think). The local 911 services are hiring just about anyone, many with zero experience.

Starting pay in my area is around $30k, maybe a bit more, but OT abounds...many of my buddies make $50k-$75k easy.

Tats haven't been a prob so far as I have seen. I will say that generally the local services like mil guys as they already, generally, have situational awareness and a culture of safety. I am former Navy (FMF corpsman), and I know the local services snatch corpsmen and medics as quick as they can.

I loved it, and had they payed me what I make now, I never woulda left the field.

I am in central NC, any questions about this area PM me.

Fetep

05-06-12, 09:21

I was a FF/Paramedic for several years, it's a fantastic job! If you can swing it go the college route, if not get your EMT-B and get hired, your employer will most likely either pay for or reimburse you for the Medic classes!

I loved the job but hated the political BS that went on, it was ridiculous! I'm not sure what part of the country you're in but an EMT-B here makes about 25-30k to start, not great but if they continue your education that makes up for it....mostly!

Don't sweat the math, use a calculator! Theres really not that much math. Nothing above pre-algebra, not even that high really;-).

Either way thank you for you service and good luck in whatever you choose. At least try the emergency medicine thing I think you'll be a great fit!

Fetep

Ouroborous

05-06-12, 12:03

EMT-B here working with the local rescue unit.

When I first entered the field, I thought I would go the paramedic route at some point but after seeing how much of dead end it can be, I decided to set my sights higher and work towards an RN license.

In my area, there is no 911 contracts for privates so that means IFT's all day long, from one hospital or Nursing facility to the next. Also, unless you're working for an FD, the pay is barely enough to get by (<$30K/Year).

Additionally, Paramedic to RN bridge programs are few and far between here and even if I did go that route it'd take the same amount of time to go through an RN program (not including the two years of medic school).

On the other hand, RN to Paramedic bridge programs are much easier to find. In my state, an RN can challenge the exam portion outright (an RN's scope of practice is higher than a Medic's) and then find a way to do your 440 hours of preceptorship on your own to work as both an RN and a Medic.

In my opinion, the sky's the limit with an RN license and you can continue in a vast array of specialties while Paramedic is just that: Para-medicine. With an RN you can challenge the Medic exam or move into a higher scope of practice as a NP or PA.

My Advice: Take full advantage of that GI Bill and get at least an AA degree as a Paramedic or even better, an RN.

Get your EMT-B at a local community college, work part-time on an ambulance while you continue taking medically related pre-req's i.e chem, anatomy, physio, micro which you can apply to either Paramedic or RN pre-req's. You'll get a feel for it that way while still continuing your degree oriented education.

Hizzie

05-06-12, 15:08

Left 12yrs of LE for EMS. Currently an EMT-B. Love it. Class was just challenging enough. It is a hands-on job. If you cant grope a dirty smelly stranger then it's not for you. Gonna go back for my Paramedic as soon as finances allow.

There is more than just ambulance work available. ER's need EMT's for ER Tech positions.

Good luck.

NCMedic

05-06-12, 15:34

NCMedic, I get what you are saying about working your way up, and its something I am more than willing to do. In your experience, are employers reluctant to hire fresh paramedics because they had no medical experience as EMT's first?[/QUOTE]

HSLD: There's a lot of great advice in this thread for you, but I would encourage you to find out about the area you want to work in, and go from there to determine your options for employment and then do some research on the agencies.
Alot of agencies used to require 1-2 years of experience before they would consider you for employment with a 911 service, now that depends on the need for EMTs and Paramedics, some places are just looking for meat in the seat and someone with a pulse and a patch, which translates to poor patient care. I am not a proponent of the "zero to hero" paramedic student mills that crank out 30 students every 9 months who haven't even set foot in a ambulance nor seen a sick person, I believe that the turn over rate for those people is substantially higher than someone who has had some experience and then advanced themselves. The last hiring process that we did where I work was for 9 positions, We had 150+ applicants, so having some experience probably is beneficial. Check with the services in your area, some may even run their own in house paramedic program or partner with a community college, so you may be able to work as a EMT and take their paramedic program. I'd look into the paramedic programs in your area, find out about them and see if they are reputable, find out what programs do clinicals with what agencies... You can be sure that if I find a sharp paramedic students who does their clinicals with me, I'm going to try and get them to come work for me, if they act like a tool, I'll note their name and make sure they don't make it through the application process. Treat your clinicals like a great big job interview, it will pay off in the end.

Sent from this... Using that...

Texas42

05-06-12, 18:39

I'm not an EMT, but I have a slightly different perspective. I'm just about to graduate medical school, and as one of my 4th year electives I spent about a month with EMTs and Paramedics. There were affiliated through the fire department. To advance in the fire department, they had to go through EMT/paramedic until a position opened up. This practice led to some paramedics who don't want to be paramedics. But practices are changing and they are hiring people who want to be paramedics.

Anyway, there is a reason there is a lot of turnouver in departments. The work has long hours and full of BS calls. Your lucky to have one maybe two, good calls in a night (also depends on your area too). Their scope of practice is pretty limited . I did get the feeling that other paramedics did more in other places. I talked to a firewoman who had recently moved from Austin. She knew her shit better than the other guys. Things are changing and they are gettign more training, but the transit times are so short here that I don't the medical directors felt like they needed to change very quickly. From talking with her, the benefits/retirement/pay were better here, but she prefered Austin (I didn't ask specifics, but she did mention it was a money issue.)

The pay is usually low. You add in lots of hours and lots of overtime, and you make decent money. The EMS/paramdeics here do 24 hour shifts q 3. The firemen 24 hours q 4. With chances at additional OT, to give you an idea of their schedule.

I would not consider EMT to be a good stepping stone to RN, PA, MD, DO, nurse pratitioner or whatever conglomeration of letters of medical professionals. Heck, PA school is more competative in many ways then medical school. A couple people in my class were EMT's, but that isn't very common.

It really depends on what your goals are in life. How many hours you want to work, how much money you want to make, and how much time/money you want to spend training. Get some real experience before you make any real time/money committments. Call your local fire department/EMS service and ask to do some ride alongs.

Personally, I'd recommend looking into RN or at least something with more options and better pay for the work. Figure out what training, college, and grades you need. Get a plan, and work your butt off to get what you need to get where you want to go.

But this is comming from the guy who spent that last 8 years in college and med school, getting his first paying job next month, and is looking at 3 (more like 6 years of (paided) training to get where he wants to go. 95% of the EMT's, paramedics, firemen, and LEO I worked with were good, professional guys. It was a fun month. The fire station is a lot like a dorm. . . . (don't fall sleep where they can get you, you'll wake up to an air horn). I had no real previous experience with EMS before. I'm glad I did.

Good luck!

jwfuhrman

05-06-12, 18:52

Im currently taking a EMT-Basic class here in Indiana with the plan to move on to Paramedic, maybe. We have a RN in our class who is working on his paramedic. He is currently a FLIGHT Nurse for one of the hospitals in the city to the north of us, and is working on his Paramedic because how Indiana works, he literally has to ask permission to do anything while on a call since he is RN and not a RN/Paramedic.

Ouroborous

05-06-12, 19:08

I would not consider EMT to be a good stepping stone to RN, PA, MD, DO, nurse pratitioner or whatever conglomeration of letters of medical professionals. Heck, PA school is more competative in many ways then medical school. A couple people in my class were EMT's, but that isn't very common.

Care to elaborate on this at all? I don't know if "prior medical experience" applies to med students but it sure does for anyone trying to get into an RN program and obviously is a pre-req for a medic too.

An EMT-B is one of the most basic (hence the B) Medical certifications you can obtain in a single semester. It was my intro into the ER which not surprisingly is where I want to work as an RN so I'd have to disagree on it not being a good stepping stone.

Texas42

05-06-12, 20:02

Care to elaborate on this at all? I don't know if "prior medical experience" applies to med students but it sure does for anyone trying to get into an RN program and obviously is a pre-req for a medic too.

An EMT-B is one of the most basic (hence the B) Medical certifications you can obtain in a single semester. It was my intro into the ER which not surprisingly is where I want to work as an RN so I'd have to disagree on it not being a good stepping stone.

I think working full time in a lower paying profession when you could be getting closer to a higher paying profession is taking away years you work (eventually) in your higher paying profession.

If you worked, part time, while training to be an RN, and it didn't require you to prolong your training to become an RN, then it really wouldn't matter.

But working a few years, full time as an EMT before going to RN school isn't usually the best idea, financially speaking. Your making less money and you are taking years away from practising as an RN.

I'm not explaining this well, but if you don't NEED to, why do it? It won't help you as an RN. It will give you experience dealing with patients and some healthcare professionals, but you'll get that quickly as an new RN, too.

kiwi57

05-06-12, 22:05

LSHD,

I'm a family medicine PA and former Dustoff flight medic (USAEUR) who 35 years ago was faced with a similar set of choices. This link from a few months ago (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=88444) covered similar ground for ICANHITHIMMAN and may be worth a look.

The comments in this post contain great information that must seem a bit overwhelming. This is related to the fact that the health professions are incredibly diverse in their scope, training requirements, and regional differences. They even have their own vocabulary and alphabet soup of acronyms (not unlike the service).

The bottom line for me in advising prospective health profession students has been to suggest coat-tailing with professionals in different disciplines to see a glimpse of what they do and then ask those you grow to respect: "Knowing what you know now, would you still make the same choice, or do something different?" This can be pretty revealing and may help to inform your decision.

Kiwi57

mallowpufft

05-06-12, 22:54

So I'm not an EMT yet but my father is an EMT-I and instructor and I hold a Sr. level certification from the NSP and am currently working on becoming an instructor for them as Wilderness first aid is my cup of tea and work with a bunch of EMTs and Medics.

Hopefully this will be of some use but if not, feel free to ignore it.

My dad worked for a small agency and was making 15 an hour as an EMT I 20 years ago up in MA.

All my buddies that are medics started as basics and worked their way up. Occasionally one has lots of down time at the squad house I hear.
Two out of my three medic buddies are in PA school.
One is also the designated medic for the local SWAT team.
Another is on the local helicopter ALS squad.
Once two out of three of my kids are in school I plan on getting my B and working my way up to at least I, maybe to medic if that's my cup of tea.

If you are going to be living in an area with a paid ski patrol you can challenge that test after you have your B and work at the mountain part time during the winter for added cash. Not a major source of income but I make ten bucks an hour in the winter to ski and hang out with my buddies. Couldn't live off that alone but my two nights a week are my ammo budget for the summer :).

It's best to blame my misspelled words on autocorrect.

dog guy

05-06-12, 23:05

The down side to starting out by going straight to paramedic is that you invest a lot of time and money training for a field you might not like. Civilian EMS may be a different experience than what you saw in the military. EMT-B is generally a one semester class (give or take depending on State and local requirements.) It gives you a chance to get out on the road and see what you're getting in to. I think one of the reasons we see so much turnover in the EMS field us that lots of people like the idea of being a medic, but the reality doesn't meet their expectations.

Medic218

05-06-12, 23:17

What area are you planning on living in once you get out?
I would research the EMS providers in that area.
As a basic you aren't likely to make 35,000 a yr right out of the gate anywhere you go.
I would get your basic, get a job as a basic and then continue on with medic school as soon as possible.
The reason I say that is simple....as a working basic going though medic school you will be able to get some real world experience that you can relate to scenario based training in school, you can work on your bedside manner, you can ask for help ALL THE TIME from the seasoned medics you work with and stuff will just 'click' better for you when you are learning about it if you're around it every day at work too.
I'm in Dallas and work for a private company and we're pretty full up on people but I know that in some parts of the country its a complete 180 and they couldn't fill a schedule if someone was holding a gun to their head.
Just look around and don't let money be your only deciding factor.
Take into account the type of work, benefits, availability of various shifts and size of the fleet.
Nothing sucks worse than showing up for your shift only to find out all the trucks are out and the ones that aren't out are in the shop.....then you get sent home and miss those hours.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

05-07-12, 23:51

Hey gents,

again, thanks for all the info.

Ive emailed some college advisors and asked about their programs. They all recommended getting my EMT B first, and then seeing if any follow on school is something I am interested in afterwards. So, since I wont be home in time to make this semester, I'm going to enroll and take the spring semester. IF I can get hired on part time as an EMT, then I think I would go ahead and go for the Paramedic AAS. If I cant find a job as an EMT B, then I would go ahead and get my Advanced or EMT-I cert to make myself more marketable to employers.

A couple of you guys mentioned not having high expectations for EMT, and I totally agree. When I enlisted in the military, I had these grandiose dreams of an action packed lifestyle of slaying dragons and such, but after awhile I got the reality check that I needed. I no longer am in love with the "idea" of a profession, but rather just want to find something that I find relatively satisfying. And, with a wife that works, no children, and the GI Bill, I can always take a break from full time work to advance my education in my field (this is FAR easier said than done, but can still be done).

In the meantime, what do you guys suggest I do to prepare myself for this career? I'm not sure if being TCCC qualified will help, but I'll be sure to throw it on my resume. Should I take first aid/CPR classes while I wait? Is there a book or manual to read up on before I go? Do ride alongs work just like police ride alongs?

curlyburns5

05-07-12, 23:55

.....

markdh720

05-08-12, 03:31

In the meantime, what do you guys suggest I do to prepare myself for this career? I'm not sure if being TCCC qualified will help, but I'll be sure to throw it on my resume. Should I take first aid/CPR classes while I wait? Is there a book or manual to read up on before I go? Do ride alongs work just like police ride alongs?

Get CPR certified. American Heart Association was preferred here.

Make sure your immunizations are current.

Maybe brush up on the skeletal structure and location of the internal organs. I got a 96% in the course but would have earned a 97% if I had this tip.

rwheet

05-08-12, 09:42

I just got my EMT-B a few months ago and am looking for a place to practice. I plan on doing B-P in the Fall. I have been told I should have 2-4 years as a Basic first. But know guys that have done it the way I want to. I have been taking some more continuing Ed class while I wait and I can tell you this. From the ITLS and ACLS courses I took my inexperience showed. But at the same time I passed and keep up with more experienced Basics and Medics. It also seems you get props from instructors cause you are showing you are there to learn and do the best you can. So I would say get your Basic and find a department or company to work on and see what you think. Also never stop reading and learning on your own.

Ouroborous

05-08-12, 10:17

Having already been trained in TCCC/CLS I believe you'll have an edge over some of the other students not having been formerly trained in anything medically oriented. That being said, civilian ems is much different then how the Military does things (i.e EMT-B's don't start IV's in most counties).

As far as what you can do now to prepare for the EMT program, find out which CPR/First aid the emt programs require (it usually is a pre-req) and get that out of the way ASAP.

Also, find out what vaccinations the program requires for clinicals and if you haven't gotten those through the Military already, get them now.

Then get started reading the req'd material for the EMT program. I read out of the Brady Emergency Care book by Michael O'Keefe which is at the 12th edition now.

Gutshot John

05-08-12, 18:05

My biggest piece of advice is to go/live in an area where medics are paid a living wage.

Here in PA, they make bupkis usually. Out west I think most EMT-Ps are fairly well paid.

I agree with those that said get your EMT-P now, it's a long program but worth it, especially if your GIBill will pay for it. Additionally there are several schools that offer a BS in EMS Management, so that's something to consider as well. University of Pittsburgh is one.

TacMedic556

05-10-12, 11:46

Paramedic here. 10 years on a professional FD, 6 years as a SWAT medic as well. Love it. Best job on earth.

TJ3000

05-30-12, 03:12

EMT-B here working with the local rescue unit.

In my opinion, the sky's the limit with an RN license and you can continue in a vast array of specialties while Paramedic is just that: Para-medicine. With an RN you can challenge the Medic exam or move into a higher scope of practice as a NP or PA.

My Advice: Take full advantage of that GI Bill and get at least an AA degree as a Paramedic or even better, an RN.

Get your EMT-B at a local community college, work part-time on an ambulance while you continue taking medically related pre-req's i.e chem, anatomy, physio, micro which you can apply to either Paramedic or RN pre-req's. You'll get a feel for it that way while still continuing your degree oriented education.

+1 This guy has it on point, here in California as an EMT your nothing more that a glorified medical transporter. Hell I've even ripped an EMT's CPR card for attempting to suction my patient while they were having a seizure. The EMT was trying to be a hero and disregarded medical assessment.

It's exactly what this guy said! Go become an RN! Your scope of practice demolishes what you can do over a paramedic! RN school is far more expensive take advantage of the GI Bill!!

As an RN if you want to be on an ambulance you can look into being a Paramedic RN, Hell you can even be Critical Care Flight Nurse, or you can make 100K being a nurse anesthetist. Don't settle for low buddy take advantage of schooling!

My Director Of Nursing once told me, firemen and EMT's think they know everything they may get there hands dirty from time to time if they're lucky but a Nurse has far more medical knowledge than they do and more clinical hands on!

BTW I'm an LVN someday I'll be an RN :-)

Weaver

05-30-12, 09:32

+1 This guy has it on point, here in California as an EMT your nothing more that a glorified medical transporter. Hell I've even ripped an EMT's CPR card for attempting to suction my patient while they were having a seizure. The EMT was trying to be a hero and disregarded medical assessment.
...

My Director Of Nursing once told me, firemen and EMT's think they know everything they may get there hands dirty from time to time if they're lucky but a Nurse has far more medical knowledge than they do and more clinical hands on!

BTW I'm an LVN someday I'll be an RN :-)

1) What makes you think suctioning a seizure patient is contra-indicated? I've done it a few times, when fluids in the mouth presented an aspiration hazard.

2) You really need to stop badmouthing EMTs - some have far more knowledge than you apparently give them credit for. Just because it's a different focus doesn't make it inferior.

3) What exactly is your experience level with pre-hospital emergency medicine, that gives you the ability to make such damning judgments on people? Who gave you the right to tear up an EMT's CPR card - and why do you think that was an appropriate response to the situation? What does a CPR card have to do with applying suction to a patient?

I first became involved in pre-hospital medical care as an Army medic in 1988. I got my EMT-B in 1992, and Advanced EMT in 1993, before returning to the Army in 1994. I am enrolled in a Nursing BS program for this fall - but I know enough to understand that EMT and Nursing are different animals, and that EMTs do great work saving lives.

Hmac

05-30-12, 12:33

NCMedic

05-30-12, 15:16

+1 This guy has it on point, here in California as an EMT your nothing more that a glorified medical transporter. Hell I've even ripped an EMT's CPR card for attempting to suction my patient while they were having a seizure. The EMT was trying to be a hero and disregarded medical assessment.

It's exactly what this guy said! Go become an RN! Your scope of practice demolishes what you can do over a paramedic! RN school is far more expensive take advantage of the GI Bill!!

As an RN if you want to be on an ambulance you can look into being a Paramedic RN, Hell you can even be Critical Care Flight Nurse, or you can make 100K being a nurse anesthetist. Don't settle for low buddy take advantage of schooling!

My Director Of Nursing once told me, firemen and EMT's think they know everything they may get there hands dirty from time to time if they're lucky but a Nurse has far more medical knowledge than they do and more clinical hands on!

BTW I'm an LVN someday I'll be an RN :-)

Wow.... That contributed alot to the discussion.
12378
Found your profile pic... You forgot to attach it.

Sent from this... Using that...

gatorfan605

05-30-12, 15:38

Tj3000- where did you learn this bs? Perhaps the nursing home where you serve lunch?

mallowpufft

05-30-12, 17:02

RN (as long as it's a BSN rather than just a diploma) is a good stepping stone to advanced practice, whether it be Nurse Practitioner or Nurse Anesthesia, but a regular floor or ER RN by itself is a different animal than EMT and really not comparable. Both are valuable contributors to the team, but such totally different functions that it's really kind of silly to propose that one "demolishes" the other in terms of scope of practice.

As to an LVN/LPN, or an RN for that matter, "ripping" and EMT's CPR card...well, that's an inconceivable notion to me. In my experience, EMT-P's are not subordinate to nurses, and certainly not LVN's.

That reminds me of my second favorite medical joke...
What's do LPN & RN stand for?
Let's play nurse
&
Real Nurse
(My wife is a BSN)

Around here (VA) LPNs only work in nursing homes and doctors offices. Our local hospital only has LPNs in the medical offices. They aren't allowed on the floor. It's either RNs or CNAs. LPNs are too much liability.

The hospital my father works at in MA won't hire nurses without a BSN now. Keeps their insurance premiums down and also improves their overall grades in healthcare facility rankings.

/back to your regularly scheduled topic.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I847 using Tapatalk 2

Hizzie

05-30-12, 17:55

+1 This guy has it on point, here in California as an EMT your nothing more that a glorified medical transporter. Hell I've even ripped an EMT's CPR card for attempting to suction my patient while they were having a seizure. The EMT was trying to be a hero and disregarded medical assessment.

It's exactly what this guy said! Go become an RN! Your scope of practice demolishes what you can do over a paramedic! RN school is far more expensive take advantage of the GI Bill!!

As an RN if you want to be on an ambulance you can look into being a Paramedic RN, Hell you can even be Critical Care Flight Nurse, or you can make 100K being a nurse anesthetist. Don't settle for low buddy take advantage of schooling!

My Director Of Nursing once told me, firemen and EMT's think they know everything they may get there hands dirty from time to time if they're lucky but a Nurse has far more medical knowledge than they do and more clinical hands on!

BTW I'm an LVN someday I'll be an RN :-)

Behavior of a true profesional.

I'm not waiting to get my Paramedic as I had originally planned. Next class starts in July and I will be attending.

rwheet

05-31-12, 07:19

Wow that turned ugly fast. But why we are on the subject. I am new to EMS, i'm a brand new EMT-B. But I plan on starting a Paramedic course in the Fall. Last month I took PALS and ACLS. The ACLS was full of RN's and one Para and me. The PALS was me and all RN's. What I noticed was one they didn't want to listen to the Paramedic instructor. Two they wanted to acted more high speed then they are. During our scenarios instead of starting with simple interventions they would go to the extreme off the bat. One RN wanted to tube the patient because he a snoring respirations. When the instructor asked why she said " Because its indicated with snoring respirations". The look on his face was like what the ****. That being said I have also seen ER nurses that were on top of the game. So I think like anything I depends on the person and experience.

Caduceus

05-31-12, 09:28

OK, my take on matters ...

First, I was an EMT in 1996. Worked private EMS, volunteer EMT w/ a paid/urban Fire Dept, and on-site EMS for years. Graduated medical school in 2009. In the Navy now.

TCCC will help a bit, but you're going to have to 'forget' it when you do the civilian program. Ie, the "right" answer on the test is the one you're taught in the program, not what you'd do in the field.

Math - everything you need you learned by 3rd grade. Unless you do pediatrics, there's a little more there, but seriously it's nothing more than multiplication and division. And you can use a calculator.

Paramedic vs RN ... depends what you want. I think EMS is more exciting than an RN, but yes, RN's have more capabilities and knowledge. The big plus of being an RN is it's a stepping stone - CRNA, FNP, flight nurse, admin, teacher ... you can really get around if you're a nurse, no pun intended (BSN more so than RN, by the way)

That being said, if you're dead set on paramedic, I'd STRONGLY recommend at least one year as an EMT. You can do it faster, but think about it ... would you trust a paramedic that couldn't work the gurney? There's a saying: Paramedics save lives, EMTs save paramedics. Plus if you decide it's not for you, you're out less money and time.

Jobs vary by state - you can usually find work in an urban area, just b/c private companies do lots of transfers. Expect $7-10/hr as an EMT-B, with LOTS of OT. I never cleared more than $30k/year though, and that was working 90-110 hour weeks. YMMV. The tats could be an issue, but typically not. If the company wants you in long sleeves, they'll tell/ask you. Rural places are probably harder, unless you volunteer. There's also "paid volunteer" and some other esoteric classifications, but generally EMTs are pretty easy to get hired on. If you want to do a paid fire dept, you're looking at potentially years before you get picked up.

Hope this helps. Feel free to IM if you have specific questions.

TacMedic556

05-31-12, 11:05

I have been a Paramedic for 10 years operating in a department that gets 4300 calls a year out of 2 stations. 90% of our calls are EMS. We get our hands dirty quite a bit. From my 12 years of pre-hospital experience I have come to realize that our field experience and call volume for critical patients far exceeds that of many RNs.

Let me address the gentlemen above who is not an RN but seems to be a 6-22 type (individuals who have 6 months on the job with a mouth of "22 years experience").

First, RNs cannot do anything without asking a doctor or being ordered to do so. Here in our region, on the Flights, for anything pre-hospital the Paramedic is in charge. Why? RNs are not allowed to operate here as pre-hospital, unless licensed as a paramedic. They can still fly and do inter-facility transports, but medics are in charge in the field.

The doctors here have a deep and great respect for Paramedics. Especially the medics who display the skill, confidence and knowledge that the doctors expect. After these docs become familiar with a particular medic, they gain a trust in them. One doctor told me years ago here, "I always trust the opinion of the paramedics bringing me a patient. They see things we in the hospital do not see, at the home, on the street. They have experience there. They seem to have that gut feeling of what is happening." He said more, but it was long ago and I forget some of that conversation. To this day, He will approach me when bringing in a critical patient and say, "Whatta we got?" or "What do you think it is?" or "What are your thoughts?" These docs display a genuine respect and interest in what the Paramedics working here think.

Yeah we can decompress lungs, Intubate, cardiovert, pace, trach, and give lots of drugs without consulting a single soul etc. Most of the Nurses I know (and I know many) have even told me, that most of nursing school is administration, people skills type classes, behavior, social-economic type studies etc. Very little of it was emergency or medical related skills, assessments, treatments, pathophysiology and the etiology of disease processes. Sure some RNs are good at this over time. However, to this day who do they call in the ER or ICU when they need a critical difficult IV? They call the Paramedics up from the ER.

I have seen both RNs and Medics make mistakes.

Paramedics in progressive west coast departments can earn over 75k a year with exceptional benefits, retirement, etc. Not to mention fire-based EMS and fire department occupations are the best kept secret there is as far as job satisfaction, work environment, opportunity for promotion etc.

I easily could have been an RN, heck I even had family offer to pay for me to attend medical school. I love my Job in the FD, I love my brothers, and there is a hell of a lot more to life than money anyway.

Thanks.

Hmac

05-31-12, 11:31

First, RNs cannot do anything without asking a doctor or being ordered to do so. Here in our region, on the Flights, for anything pre-hospital the Paramedic is in charge. Why? RNs are not allowed to operate here as pre-hospital, unless licensed as a paramedic. They can still fly and do inter-facility transports, but medics are in charge in the field.

Certainly not the case here. RNs fly the helicopters too. The hierarchy is usually that the EMT-P is in charge of the patient at the scene, the nurse becomes in charge of the patient once loaded. From a practical standpoint though, it's not that cut-and-dried...it's a very collegial relationship.

The doctors here have a deep and great respect for Paramedics. Especially the medics who display the skill, confidence and knowledge that the doctors expect. After these docs become familiar with a particular medic, they gain a trust in them. One doctor told me years ago here, "I always trust the opinion of the paramedics bringing me a patient. They see things we in the hospital do not see, at the home, on the street. They have experience there. They seem to have that gut feeling of what is happening." He said more, but it was long ago and I forget some of that conversation. To this day, He will approach me when bringing in a critical patient and say, "Whatta we got?" or "What do you think it is?" or "What are your thoughts?" These docs display a genuine respect and interest in what the Paramedics working here think.

I'm the guy that signs those Paramedics off with the National Registry. If I didn't feel the way you describe, that Paramedic wouldn't have a job here. We all have very high expectations here for competence and professionalism in our Paramedics. Their performance has always shown those expectations to be justified.

You slam paramedics again tough guy, and I will unleash a rash of true stories on you of RNs "screwing the pooch" in the field, and royally F'n up. Thanks.

A very unnecessary response. This doesn't need to be a pissing contest. I'm confident that I have more such stories about RNs and Paramedics than both of you put together, but it makes no difference. The guy was obviously posting out of ego and ignorance. It doesn't merit anything more than a shake of the head.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

06-02-12, 08:34

montanadave

06-02-12, 09:24

I got my EMT-B years ago and it whetted my appetite to get into the medical field. I ended up with a BSN and worked primarily inpatient oncology and hospice. I'm not interested in the Paramedic-Nurse bickering. Both do different jobs, most do them well, there are areas of overlap, and, in my experience, they generally function very well as a collaborative medical team insuring the safety and welfare of the patients entrusted to their care.

One thing I learned about the medical field is the importance of knowing your temperament. Some folks thrive on the rush, love the unexpected, can't wait to get the call and try to create order out of chaos. Other folks prefer to work at an orderly pace, prepare and anticipate any contingencies, and identify and resolve little problems before they become big problems. Finding yourself in the wrong working environment is a recipe for disaster and certain to make your career either short-lived or miserable.

As for mistakes and screw ups. They happen to everybody. Hopefully they get caught in time with no harm to the patient. But I'll guarantee you that you will KNOW the procedure you screwed up once better than the procedure you've done a thousand times without giving it a second thought. That sick, sinking feeling that hits like a Mack truck when you realize you've made an error is the best motivational learning tool ever invented.

TacMedic556

06-02-12, 10:36

A very unnecessary response. This doesn't need to be a pissing contest. I'm confident that I have more such stories about RNs and Paramedics than both of you put together, but it makes no difference. The guy was obviously posting out of ego and ignorance. It doesn't merit anything more than a shake of the head.

Yeah, I agree with you. I had a moment. He struck a cord in me by attacking what I have dedicated over a third of my life to. Shake of the head it is then.
:no:

NCMedic

06-02-12, 10:44

I totally forgot about this thread for a few days guys, sorry about that. Other than the random bouts of bickering, this is a treasure trove of real world info and advice. I have decided to pursue the EMT B route, and after a little experience, if I decide to do EMT P, then I will.

Good luck to you... Hopefully you will find it a good profession and enjoy it. I think you are on the right path. :thumbup:

Sent from this... Using that...

chuckman

06-02-12, 10:52

Certainly not the case here. RNs fly the helicopters too. The hierarchy is usually that the EMT-P is in charge of the patient at the scene, the nurse becomes in charge of the patient once loaded. From a practical standpoint though, it's not that cut-and-dried...it's a very collegial relationship.

I have been a flight medic and am now a RN, and my experience has been the same...very collegial and mucho back-and-forth. Generally if it was a scene run I was 'in charge', and the nurse seemed OK. Interfacility/critical care stuff, the nurse was generally in charge (even though I had my CCEMTP). I know I was OK with that....those patients were the nurses' bread and butter.

When I was a medic I heard all of the crap about nurses. Now, I hear all the crap about medics. Life is a big ol' bell curve, folks, and there are truly sucky ones of each profession, and truly gifted ones. Most, in the middle.

kiwi57

06-02-12, 12:57

LowSpeed_HighDrag,
Congratulations on your decision, sounds like a well-reasoned and solid choice. Good luck and thank you again for your service.

montanadave,
Your post speaks volumes and I wholeheartedly concur. Many years ago a preceptor told me that "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience often comes from bad judgment." Not sure where she first heard it, but I've always tried to keep this thought in the back of my mind.

I strive to be open to help and counsel from anyone on the health care team, regardless of their title. In the end, it is not about us, it is about our patients. This approach seems to have worked reasonably well for me so far.

Kiwi57

Str8Jacket722

06-02-12, 20:19