Action Type (DA, SA, etc) Question

[hals1]

I'll start by saying I couldn't figure out search terms that didn't get pages of irrelevant hits.
When I grew up (40s-50s) it was a revolver world with a scattering of 1911s, S&W 39s and Ruger Standard models.
Double action meant you cocked the piece while pulling the trigger. Like a revolver with the hammer down. Single action meant you manually cocked the piece like a Colt SA Army, Ruger Blackhawk, etc. or a 1911 carried with the hammer down, for instance. A double action semi-auto was one where you could carry the piece with a round chambered and the hammer down and cock the hammer and fire with a long, bad trigger pull--then it went SA. S&W 39 or P38 (i think) for instance.
At some point while I wasn't paying attention the definition of DA, DAO, SA and SAO changed; maybe due to the big switch to striker-fired pistols.
So what are the current definitions. Answering with a link would do fine.

Also, a rehash of carry conditions would be appreciated. I'll post them on the wall next to my computer. As I recall, cocked and locked is condition 2 and ready to fire is condition 1.

[rob_s]

Your definitions seem to match the current to me.

single action = hammer cocked by thumb or slide
double action = hammer cocked by trigger

[hals1]

OK. Then why does Bud's list the M&P22 as SA and the centerfires DA?

[rob_s]

OK. Then why does Bud's list the M&P22 as SA and the centerfires DA?

Because it was written by idiots?

I really don't know. When it comes to the striker-fired guns they really should just call a spade a spade and acknowledge that there's another type.

[hals1]

Because it was written by idiots?

I really don't know. When it comes to the striker-fired guns they really should just call a spade a spade and acknowledge that there's another type.

OK Rob. Kinda like "piston" AR-15s only worse?

[rob_s]

haha, no. :p

There just winds up being a lot of wheel spinning trying to define striker-fired guns, whether they cock on trigger press or on slide cycle, what it means if they only partially cock, etc. It just seems easier to me to just call them striker-fired guns as a class and be done. When "double action" came about they had to come up with a name for that too, so I don't know why we are fixated on trying to put the new technology into the old boxes.

[gunnut284]

OK. Then why does Bud's list the M&P22 as SA and the centerfires DA?

I believe the M&P22 has an internal hammer and is SA. The centerfires are striker fired and DAish.

[hals1]

I believe the M&P22 has an internal hammer and is SA. The centerfires are striker fired and DAish.

Why do you say "DAish?" You have to cock them with the slide; like pulling the hammer back.
See what I mean about current classifications?

[dirvo85]

Why do you say "DAish?" You have to cock them with the slide; like pulling the hammer back.
See what I mean about current classifications?

For example on an M&P the striker is pre-cocked but when the trigger is pulled the striker is being cocked the rest of the way before it breaks. So it's "D/A-ish" because the striker isn't 100% cocked. Pulling the trigger brings the striker back farther before the break. Make sense?

[gunnut284]

Why do you say "DAish?" You have to cock them with the slide; like pulling the hammer back.
See what I mean about current classifications?

The older definitions haven't really changed, there are just some newer variations (mostly striker fired but also DAK/LEM types) that don't fit perfectly in the older categories. So we try to related them to the older definitions rather than invent new ones.

The M&P, like a Glock, is a partially "cocked" striker fired system that requires a reset of the striker. It's not really a SA or DA in the traditional sense, but is probably a bit closer to DA than SA, due to the trigger having to finish the rearward travel of the striker and then release it. But because it requires the reset between shots and is partially cocked it could also be considered almost SA so it doesn't really fit well in either category.