View Full Version : European Elections...
Can I get some views on this?? I know several of you keep up with world politics on a higher level than myself.
Will the cause a significant shift across the pond and/or affect the US adversely??
Eurodriver
05-06-12, 17:42
No.
No.
Neither the French nor the Greek election results bode particularly well for the European economic crisis and its resolution.
Neither the French nor the Greek election results bode particularly well for the European economic crisis and its resolution.
Agreed, neither are they surprising. Still, it is sad to see. I guess we will see how we fair.......
polydeuces
05-06-12, 22:24
Perhaps it'll make "le Gay Paris", "Le Vin" and "le Fromage" cheaper, and retiring on some Greek island more affordable, I hope.
One can dream, right?
The_War_Wagon
05-07-12, 21:06
The left is saying: We want our pensions restored, our public employees rehired. If our leaders need more money, take it from the rich, take it from the banks, take it from the big corporations.
The right is saying: We want our countries and culture back. We want our borders closed. We want no more immigration from the rest or Europe or the rest of the world.
Let France be France again. Let Greece be Greece again.
Tribalism, radicalism and socialism are the growth stocks of the new Europe.
He left off, "financial collapsism," because when you put hard lefties in charge of purse strings at THIS point in time, they WILL run out of OTHER people's money to spend, in SHORT ORDER. :o
Belmont31R
05-07-12, 22:24
Just like in our country Europe has enough people on the dole who don't want to give up their piece of the pie they are going to go further and further left.
Same thing here. 50% don't pay Federal income taxes. Think of the millions of people on SS, disability, welfare, food stamps, ect. This is how a republic fails. People figure out they can vote themselves money in their pockets, and we have a whole party and 9/10ths out of the 2nd one who support it.
Done. :rolleyes:
Same thing here. 50% don't pay Federal income taxes. Think of the millions of people on SS, disability, welfare, food stamps, ect. This is how a republic fails. People figure out they can vote themselves money in their pockets, and we have a whole party and 9/10ths out of the 2nd one who support it.
Done. :rolleyes:
Not only they don't pay taxes, they get up to $6,500 "refund". Try convincing people they should not get free money, and that they should vote for someone who tells them "Can't afford to do that anymore."
Europe will probably unravel first but we are in the same oat and eventually face equally hard consequences. This is not going to be pretty. Neither Europe or the US has the self-discipline in the populace or politicians to give up the free lunch ride. If we choose to pay off debts we have a severe long depression. We be will be economic slaves to the bankers for the next 90 years.
If we continue as we are we will have raging inflation. Savings will be destroyed, fixed incomes will be made irrelevant. Do you really think tax rates will be adjusted to compensate for slowly rising incomes to make up for ravages of inflation? We may be surprised that in five years we are all paying the "rich man's" max rate for over $250,000 but we still struggle to buy that $20 loaf of bread and gallon of gas.
How many nations will do what Iceland did and say screw you bankers, we default and will carry on without you?
No surprise that Europe chose the left in order to push back on austerity. I imagine we will do the same thing in November, again. No matter what people say about getting back on track and electing an adult to the WH, I think free money, easy loans, open borders, etc will win at the voting booth. We are beyond saving ourselves when more than 50% are dependent on the minority of earners for their basic sustenance and fun stuff.
Belmont31R
05-07-12, 23:34
Not only they don't pay taxes, they get up to $6,500 "refund". Try convincing people they should not get free money, and that they should vote for someone who tells them "Can't afford to do that anymore."
Europe will probably unravel first but we are in the same oat and eventually face equally hard consequences. This is not going to be pretty. Neither Europe or the US has the self-discipline in the populace or politicians to give up the free lunch ride. If we choose to pay off debts we have a severe long depression. We be will be economic slaves to the bankers for the next 90 years.
If we continue as we are we will have raging inflation. Savings will be destroyed, fixed incomes will be made irrelevant. Do you really think tax rates will be adjusted to compensate for slowly rising incomes to make up for ravages of inflation? We may be surprised that in five years we are all paying the "rich man's" max rate for over $250,000 but we still struggle to buy that $20 loaf of bread and gallon of gas.
How many nations will do what Iceland did and say screw you bankers, we default and will carry on without you?
No surprise that Europe chose the left in order to push back on austerity. I imagine we will do the same thing in November, again. No matter what people say about getting back on track and electing an adult to the WH, I think free money, easy loans, open borders, etc will win at the voting booth. We are beyond saving ourselves when more than 50% are dependent on the minority of earners for their basic sustenance and fun stuff.
I think the same thing. Ive ranted about previous generations before us, and now we have an elderly class who won't give up their bennies for anything. Toss in all the disabled, welfare, food stamp people, and then all the Federal employees, ect. The libs won decades ago by implementing all these programs. Most of this crap started before I was born. Like I said people figured out they could vote themselves money by voting for certain candidates. Why work when you get a check every month? Why save for retirement when you get money every month?
Lost a long time ago.
No surprise that Europe chose the left in order to push back on austerity. I imagine we will do the same thing in November, again.
I don't know, there are some interesting distinctions between political left in EU and here. For example, tax cuts are the opposite of austerity and it is our right wing parties that are known for that. Granted, gov't spending is more aligned with our left and theirs, but it isn't as clear-cut there. We'll see. Hopefully we can get the lesser of two evils this Fall, even though that being our options sucks.
I don't know, there are some interesting distinctions between political left in EU and here. For example, tax cuts are the opposite of austerity and it is our right wing parties that are known for that. Granted, gov't spending is more aligned with our left and theirs, but it isn't as clear-cut there. We'll see. Hopefully we can get the lesser of two evils this Fall, even though that being our options sucks.
While tax increases and cuts in benefits combined are usually part of an austerity program, from what I have read it is mostly the cuts in benefits that is riling folks up in EU. But that is just my observation, I don't know how much the tax increases play into the angst of the people voting there.
That would certainly be true here. Our left could care less about tax increases as they see it affecting someone else (rich), not them (whether that is true or not).
My comments were more directed toward attitude of free benefits rather than the tax side of austerity. From the practical side tax increases are irrelevant to austerity because at the current levels history shows us that total revenues tend to decrease as rates are increased due to tax avoidance and legal entity relocation.
Copy that.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/washington-secrets/2012/05/dems-say-french-greek-votes-good-them/586921
Doc Safari
05-08-12, 14:27
Just like in our country Europe has enough people on the dole who don't want to give up their piece of the pie they are going to go further and further left.
Same thing here. 50% don't pay Federal income taxes. Think of the millions of people on SS, disability, welfare, food stamps, ect. This is how a republic fails. People figure out they can vote themselves money in their pockets, and we have a whole party and 9/10ths out of the 2nd one who support it.
Done. :rolleyes:
Pretty much word-for-word what I was going to post.
I'll just add that with this election in November we may reach the tipping point where a conservative never again has a chance to beat a tax-and-spend liberal for president.
VooDoo6Actual
05-08-12, 14:29
Artos,
these are probably relevant & what you were eluding to or concerned with etc.
Change in Paris May Better Fit U.S. Economic Positions
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/world/europe/hollandes-economic-policy-may-better-suit-the-us.html?_r=2&smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto
NY TIMES ADMITS: NEW FRENCH SOCIALIST PREZ‘S POLICIES ARE A ’BETTER FIT’ FOR THE U.S. BECAUSE…
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ny-times-admits-new-french-socialst-prezs-policies-are-a-better-fit-for-the-u-s-because/
The only way to not suffer what is probably forthcoming, if it doesnt completely unravel, is to start your own bank and keep making loans to Europe. The taxpayers pick up the losses. You pick up the profits on the interest on that loan. That money was the created out of thin air by central banks (the hidden tax called inflation) and then funneled to the imf then to the banks to keep them afloat and restructure the loans. More taxpayer funded losses and then more profit for you. So on and so forth. That's exactly what happens in these crisises. It's just worded in a bunch of gobbly gook so the public doesn't understand. The iMF didnt "win" 400 mil for European bailouts a couple of weeks ago. It's on Bloomberg archive somewhere worded exactly as that "win" they didn't win anything. It was stolen from us.
Here it is. Except it was billions not millions.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-20/imf-said-to-be-winning-more-than-400-billion-in-fresh-funding.html
This could be the first domino if they reneg 500 billion.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-09/greeks-may-hold-510-billion-trump-card-in-renegotiation.html
Lots of chatter on this topic within the manufacturing world.
Was mentioned at a meeting to plant managers during an update of the Mexico elctions coming up & also during a visit with a customer who deals with global procurement supply chain.
They are watching the output of transportation trucks and heavy machinery going flat in the 2nd quarter. Being told this can be a key indicator for other markets taking a dive as well. Bit premature but enough concern to push out orders and lower exposure of their on hand inventories.
While tax increases and cuts in benefits combined are usually part of an austerity program, from what I have read it is mostly the cuts in benefits that is riling folks up in EU. But that is just my observation, I don't know how much the tax increases play into the angst of the people voting there.
The tax hikes greatly play into the angst of the people voting there in a direct indirect way.
Taxes like the VAT [which Greece hike significantly] have greatly lessened consumption, which tanks the economy. The tanked economy (lack of jobs, not affording to pay bills, etc) is what feeds the angst.
Instead of raising taxes and cutting government spending, they should cut the government spending (get rid of govt workers who are not needed, sell off state owned businesses, adjust pensions/retirement to reflect reality, etc) and also include tax incentives for growth.
I was reading an article on Greece yesterday and the pleas the (at the time last summer) new Greek Finance Minister was making on growth policies, in addition to cuts in spending, and how it fell on deaf ears in Berlin and Paris and elsewhere. I was astounded.
That would certainly be true here. Our left could care less about tax increases as they see it affecting someone else (rich), not them (whether that is true or not).
My comments were more directed toward attitude of free benefits rather than the tax side of austerity. From the practical side tax increases are irrelevant to austerity because at the current levels history shows us that total revenues tend to decrease as rates are increased due to tax avoidance and legal entity relocation.
Pretty much word-for-word what I was going to post.
I'll just add that with this election in November we may reach the tipping point where a conservative never again has a chance to beat a tax-and-spend liberal for president.
I agree. The question is, can we get a conservative on the ballot at this late date? Or did we already tip over? When did we last have a fiscally conservative president? Been a while. I think that bridge done burned already.
Rather than waiting to see if a miraculous change occurs in the US voters, I am exchanging more of my fiat Federal Reserve Notes for utility metals: lead, brass, copper, steel, aluminum and various space age plastics.
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