View Full Version : Glock fitted barrel
jahwarrior1423
05-06-12, 22:14
If I were to decide to get a fitted barrel for my G19...
Which barrel manufacturer would you go with? And why?
And who would you send your Glock to for installation?
Someday I want to try that. And go all the way. BarSto send them the slide/gun and have it fitted. But it's hard for me to gain a lot of emotional momentum to do that since my late model Gen 3s have shot into 2" and a Gen 4 a little better than that.
And I've seen guys report well under 2" from Gen 4 G34's so dayim, fitted BarSto is a lot $$$ to gain not nearly as much as compared to 3-4" guns of yore.
If I were to decide to get a fitted barrel for my G19...
Which barrel manufacturer would you go with? And why?
And who would you send your Glock to for installation?
BarSto is really the main option right now.
We will be offering some Storm Lake barrels in the future though.
C4
I've had three Bar-Sto barreled Glocks with no issues. I think resale value remains higher on Bar-Sto than others. Jarvis and KKM would be my other two preferences, but I don't think they're better than the Bar-Sto.
One benefit to a hard fitted barrel on a Glock is that it crisps up the trigger pull. If you watch the back of the slide as you pull through the trigger during dry fire, you'll see it get pulled downward by the trigger bar pulling on the striker. The hard fitted barrel locks up tighter, eliminating that dip and the associated mushiness of the trigger.
Wilson Combat. Paul Hotaling is running one in his G17 and that thing is laser accurate.
I've had three Bar-Sto barreled Glocks with no issues. I think resale value remains higher on Bar-Sto than others. Jarvis and KKM would be my other two preferences, but I don't think they're better than the Bar-Sto.
One benefit to a hard fitted barrel on a Glock is that it crisps up the trigger pull. If you watch the back of the slide as you pull through the trigger during dry fire, you'll see it get pulled downward by the trigger bar pulling on the striker. The hard fitted barrel locks up tighter, eliminating that dip and the associated mushiness of the trigger.
Really? That is interesting; I had no idea of that. Thanks much.
I emailed a question to BarSto about Glock barrels - Gen 3 or Gen 4? and the reply was their barrel fits either. Could be . . . but does that sound right?
Wilson's drop in with maybe minor fitting says Gen 3 only IIRC.
Really? That is interesting; I had no idea of that. Thanks much.
I emailed a question to BarSto about Glock barrels - Gen 3 or Gen 4? and the reply was their barrel fits either. Could be . . . but does that sound right?
Wilson's drop in with maybe minor fitting says Gen 3 only IIRC.
I don't have any experience with aftermarket barrels in Gen 4's. I've been holding off until the bugs get worked out, either by Glock or Apex. My experience has been with Gen 2.5 & Gen 3's, which is all positive so far.
Can't say anything bad about the 3 KKM .40 barrels I have...all drop in versions in 3 G22s. They cut group sizes in half.
I could flip a coin on KKM vs Barsto and be happy either way.
Sample of one Briley fitted barrel (by Briley themselves) wasn't any more accurate or gave crisper trigger pull than OEM barrels (two) in my 3d gen G-19.
I think Briley subs their production out to someone else (KKM???). I've heard other people had good results with theirs, what kinds of ammo did you try in it? What kind of groups were you getting and what distance did you group it at?
I had an RTF2 G22 that just shot like ass, I was not pleased with it's accuracy. I dropped the KKM .40 barrel in it and it's turning about 2" at 25 from a rest...plenty good for me. I have another comped KKM in a 22 with a T1 that is putting up 1.5" with the carry/duty loads I prefer.
The first owner Ransom'd it with 50 rounds of 124 gr HST at 25 yards and got an average group of 3 inches, spread between 2.4 and 3.4. I shot about 9000 rounds through it, various ammo and distances, and it never shot to justify $300 tag. I switched to OEM and it shot just as well. In fact best off hand 25 yard group was shot with OEM bbl.
I've heard of Barsto shooting 2 or less inches with Glocks. If I ever went with fitted bbl in Glock, I'd use Barsto. Having said that, I am pleasantly surprised with OEM bbl accuracy on my Gen4 17. Just shot a 2 inch 18 yard group with regular Blazer ammo, noticeably better than G19 or M&P shot with the same ammo on the same day.
Wilson Combat. Paul Hotaling is running one in his G17 and that thing is laser accurate.
I've been testing a TigerSwan G17 with a Wilson barrel. The increase in accuracy is definitely there. Offhand at 25 yards, it would hold the black with the factory barrel; now it holds the 10-ring. It will hold the black at 50 yards offhand, and keep 10 hits in 12-14" at 100 if the wind isn't too bad.
I haven't shot it off sandbags.
Okie John
No love for Lone Wolf? Thoughts?
I have used a Storm Lake barrel in my G35 for several years. I did not have to send it to anyone to fit and it has had approximately 3,000 rounds through it. I can't say that it improved accuracy but it did eliminate the bulge on the spent cases. I have not felt the need to replace the barrels in my 17s and 19s and I have shot them a great deal more over the last few years compared to my 35.
No love for Lone Wolf? Thoughts?
I usually have someone thread longer Glock factory barrels (35 barrels in 22s for example) but I needed one ASAP for a G17 a while back and got a Lone Wolf. I noticed mine shoots equal if not a little worse than my Glock factory barrels.
Stephen H has two or 3 and we compared notes and neither one of us felt that they were any more accurate in our guns than standard barrels.
This was the KKM barrel's first attempt at shooting the standing 25M bull (100/6X). Glock 22, 180GR Federal, KKM extended threaded barrel, Aimpoint T1. From a rest it's not even funny the accuracy it turns out...I'll bag it up next time I go out and see what I can do.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/M4Guru/G2225M100.jpg
Straight Shooter
05-08-12, 07:12
At the risk of being pooh-poohed & called a liar..Ill tell you what shrank my G21 groups considerably, and it wasnt a barrel.
And no effect at all on reliability, AND costs about $35 or so.
Try a T. R. Graham Match Grade Slide Lock. Im NOT talking about the
slide release. It is a precision made part by a gent out in Texas, the differences are noticable on the parts, and after you follow the necessary 200-250 round break in, you will notice your groups are smaller. Shrunk mine by about an inch now. The more I shoot it,the more I love it.
Just a thought to save some cash. This has been out now several years, and has a vast majority of good feedback.
I have used a Storm Lake barrel in my G35 for several years. I did not have to send it to anyone to fit and it has had approximately 3,000 rounds through it. I can't say that it improved accuracy but it did eliminated the bulge on the spent cases. I have not felt the need to replace the barrels in my 17s and 19s and I have shot them a great deal more over the last few years compared to my 35.
The only experience I've had with Storm Lake was a M&P .40 barrel. While it did shrink my group size over the factory barrel (which was marginal by service pistol standards) it certainly didn't live up to my expectations for a $170 barrel. The lockup at the barrel hood was good by service pistol standards, but nowhere near match quality. Unfortunately, the chamber was way too tight, causing malfunctions. I ditched it and have no intention to spend more money on a Storm Lake barrel.
At the risk of being pooh-poohed & called a liar..Ill tell you what shrank my G21 groups considerably, and it wasnt a barrel.
And no effect at all on reliability, AND costs about $35 or so.
Try a T. R. Graham Match Grade Slide Lock. Im NOT talking about the
slide release. It is a precision made part by a gent out in Texas, the differences are noticable on the parts, and after you follow the necessary 200-250 round break in, you will notice your groups are smaller. Shrunk mine by about an inch now. The more I shoot it,the more I love it.
Just a thought to save some cash. This has been out now several years, and has a vast majority of good feedback.
Anything that improves barrel lockup without impeding function is going to improve accuracy. For years, the Dwyer Group Gripper made significant accuracy improvements in 1911's. It's still available through Wilson Combat, but everyone automatically goes for a match barrel these days it seems. The reason to go for a match barrel in a Glock .40 or .45 has more to do with getting a fully supported chamber than accuracy though, particularly for reloaders.
I've heard about the benefits of the slide lock/takedown lever. The only complaint I heard was that they seemed to break the slide lock leaf spring more often for some reason. I might try one out on a fun gun and see if I get benefits further than the barrel, but I'm thinking it's not going to matter much on top of the barrel. With a stock barrel it would be nice to get the gains without the price tag of the match barrel...
The only issue I see with some people chasing the 1" group is that they're chasing it with an 8" skill set. I have buddies that went and bought $200 barrels after seeing what it did in my guns...these buddies shoot 100 rounds every 3-4 months, most likely spread out between 4-5 random guns they took to the local wildlife club.
I still think a lot of accuracy enhancing mods are a trade off in function at a point, and if you can't beat the gun there's no point throwing money at a good gun when Barsto or KKM aren't including a trigger press in the cost of the barrel.
The only issue I see with some people chasing the 1" group is that they're chasing it with an 8" skill set.
I still think a lot of accuracy enhancing mods are a trade off in function at a point, and if you can't beat the gun there's no point throwing money at a good gun when Barsto or KKM aren't including a trigger press in the cost of the barrel.
That's a very solid point. The software skill-set definitely needs to be at a certain level before hardware changes start paying dividends.
Given your experience with match barrels, at roughly what skill point do you think someone would start seeing a performance boost? I realize that's hard to quantify, so for example, if someone shoots 4" groups at 25 yards and averages 90-95 on a B8 (with a stock barrel), is that an appropriate threshold to start seeking hardware-based accuracy mods?
I don't want to veer too much away from the OP's question about specific product recommendations, but I thought this might be a relevant question for people tuning into this thread who are also considering match barrels, but are still trying to figure out if it's worth the cost for them at their current skill level.
It's just a chart where you can do X and the gun can do Y. When x crosses the line and is smaller than Y, it's time to make the gun catch up to you. Til then, you have to catch up to the gun. The lines shift based on the time you put in to maintaining your proficiency and how accurate the gun becomes, one will always be chasing the other.
Try a T. R. Graham Match Grade Slide Lock.
I was under the impression he has stopped selling them because of issues chipping barrel lugs.
That's a very solid point. The software skill-set definitely needs to be at a certain level before hardware changes start paying dividends.
Given your experience with match barrels, at roughly what skill point do you think someone would start seeing a performance boost? I realize that's hard to quantify, so for example, if someone shoots 4" groups at 25 yards and averages 90-95 on a B8 (with a stock barrel), is that an appropriate threshold to start seeking hardware-based accuracy mods?
I don't want to veer too much away from the OP's question about specific product recommendations, but I thought this might be a relevant question for people tuning into this thread who are also considering match barrels, but are still trying to figure out if it's worth the cost for them at their current skill level.
I agree with this 100%. I think that if you've tested enough ammo to know what shoots well in your gun, and you know your zero, and you regularly shoot 4" groups offhand with quality FMJ practice ammo at 25 yards, then you're in the zone to benefit from a better-than-stock barrel.
Okie John
That's a very solid point. The software skill-set definitely needs to be at a certain level before hardware changes start paying dividends.
Given your experience with match barrels, at roughly what skill point do you think someone would start seeing a performance boost? I realize that's hard to quantify, so for example, if someone shoots 4" groups at 25 yards and averages 90-95 on a B8 (with a stock barrel), is that an appropriate threshold to start seeking hardware-based accuracy mods?
I don't want to veer too much away from the OP's question about specific product recommendations, but I thought this might be a relevant question for people tuning into this thread who are also considering match barrels, but are still trying to figure out if it's worth the cost for them at their current skill level.
To me, it's around the Expert or Master level. You have to remember that if you're capable of shooting 4" groups at 25 yards and your gun is capable of 4" at 25, that's 8". Having a 2" gun will shrink it to 6". I can consistently put 8 rounds out of my Colt Rail Gun into 5" at 25 yards offhand. I can't do that with my Glock 19, but my Bar-Sto equipped 17 will do it (it takes a little more time on trigger manipulation though). Having that extra 2" may or may not make a difference, but it certainly doesn't hurt your confidence in the gun IF, you can see the difference.
It never hurts to remember that what you can do on your best day isn't as important as what you can do on your worst. :)
You have to remember that if you're capable of shooting 4" groups at 25 yards and your gun is capable of 4" at 25, that's 8". Having a 2" gun will shrink it to 6".
Yes, but that's a worst-case scenario. If we just look at the gear over dozens or hundreds of groups, a more accurate pistol definitely makes a difference. In competition, it could turn an 8 into a 10, which adds up. On the street, it could turn a miss into a hit.
It's also easier to diagnose problems with technique when you shoot an accurized pistol.
Okie John
agree with m4guru- most people try to get more skill with equipment which is not going to do the trick.
I also think there is a bit of trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear going on here. A glock is a 3 inch at 25 yards combat gun. if you want tight groups a more suitable platform is in order.
I have seen in many cases a significant degradation in reliability in glocks with aftermarket barrels.
agree with m4guru- most people try to get more skill with equipment which is not going to do the trick.
I also think there is a bit of trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear going on here. A glock is a 3 inch at 25 yards combat gun. if you want tight groups a more suitable platform is in order.
I have seen in many cases a significant degradation in reliability in glocks with aftermarket barrels.
As have I, but not with the Bar-Sto barrels. My G-34 with a Bar-Sto has about 35K through it with no issues. I once had two malfunctions in one range session, but they were attributable to a lack of maintenance and environmental factors. As soon as I wiped 1200-1500 rounds worth of goo out of it and squirted on more lube, it went back to 100%. A buddy of mine who borrowed it once briefly asked "Are you trying to grow potatoes in that barrel?" :D
Randy Lee has posted here of his experience tuning competion G24's to the accuracy level of 2" at 50 yards. No sow's ear there. My avatar is a stock gen 4 G17 that has printed 1.5" at 25 yards. TigerSwan has published impressive improvements in G17s that were realized by the shooter.
M4Guru posted his G22 improvements.
Glocks can be match grade. Some are close out of the box.
Straight Shooter
05-08-12, 15:12
stalker3-
I have not heard that Graham stopped selling his MGSL. Ive never heard/read of it chipping barrel lugs, thats a bummer.
Mine has a thousand or so rounds on it so far, Ill keep track of it.
Hell, up untill this thread, Id never heard of a fitted barrel for a Glock!
I did some really unscientific testing at the range today. From a seated/semi-supported position cause I didn't want to lay in the mud or drag a shooting table 50 yards through the mud...I used GI 9mm ball and Federal EFMJ .40. Next time I go out I want to shoot carry loads down the P2000, shoot the KKM barrel I'm gonna order for the G35, and swap the barrels on the G22 and measure the differences in the same guns, the barrel being the only change.
Targets shot at 25 measured meters
The G22 to G22/KKM/T1 comparison isn't really apples to oranges because of the sights...but it can show the capability of the G22 with a KKM at 25. Theoretically from a real rested position all of these should do better. Some of the groups make me pretty happy til I remember Brian Searcy does this with a Glock, standing offhand, and beats all of them...
THESE ARE 6" LET SI-5 BULLS (with the exception of the P226), not B8s.
HK P2000 V2 LEM, stock crappy sights. This gun does not like GI 9mm ball...it does significantly better with Gold Dot but alas, I had none at the range.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/M4Guru/IMG_0139.jpg
Glock 22, bone stock to include plastic sights, used trade in at my local shop. Bought today to put an RMR on top...figured, why not?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/M4Guru/IMG_0140.jpg
Beretta M9, arms room grade, totally unmodified. I love the Beretta. You don't hear that a lot...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/M4Guru/IMG_0141.jpg
Glock 35 with Dawson adjustable sights. Barrel has 45K+ down the pipe. Probably needs a new one.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/M4Guru/IMG_0142.jpg
Glock 22/KKM Match barrel with 4-port comp/Aimpoint T1. Called that flyer, the others are a pretty fair representation of what the gun can do.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/M4Guru/IMG_0143.jpg
Sig P226R Navy Model with Heinie S8 sights. Dear lord, the triggers on these things are terrible...but their reputation for accuracy is well earned.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/M4Guru/IMG_0144.jpg
G34Shooter
05-08-12, 15:49
Edit: 25 yards as I figured.
G34Shooter
05-08-12, 15:52
25 meters
Impressive!
It's easy to overlook how ammo-dependent Glock accuracy can be. Some practice-grade ammo is very good and some is not, and you won't know what they are until you test a bunch of it.
I've seen Glocks turn in 3" groups with Load A, and 6" groups with Load B.
Okie John
That's definitely a valid point, I used to have a bunch or Hornady TAP 124gr, and out of the G19 I carry you could point it right at the ground and miss the Earth. GI 9mm or Gold Dots and it's very respectable.
Heavy Metal
05-08-12, 17:48
Holy Flarking Snit! That Beretta sure delivered the mail!
I always knew they were capable of good accuracy but man! And that is with plain-jane brown box G.I. ball too!
Damn good shootin' there M4G!
The M9 is without a doubt the most underrated, misunderstood, and inexplicably hated modern handgun. I love the Beretta, but I have big hands, like XXL glove big. The M9 deserves way more love than it gets.
I was calling everyone on the way home telling them "you'll never believe this shit..."
Straight Shooter
05-09-12, 07:41
Thank God someone else is singing the praises of the M9's accuracy.
Ive got over 6000 rnds thru mine, nary a problem, not one.
And with WWB 115gr, mine is THAT accurate too. Also shoots 124gr.+P ammo like that.
Last range trip, AFTER Id finished shooting for the day, I did a 9 mag dump, as fast as I could aim,fire, reload. Ate it all up, hit everything I aimed at, and was ready for more.
DAMN fine gun.
Anyway, back on track...has anyone else actually used the MGSL I mentioned earlier, or heard anymore, good or bad, on it? UPDATE:
Ok..I went elsewhere looking to see if I could find any info on Mr. Graham stopping production on his MGSL.
In fact...HE HAS. From what Ive READ...most people with older Gen 1, 2, & 3 guns are experiancing very little, to any problems with the MGSL. SOME people, with Gen 4 guns, are getting chipping on barrel lugs, some as soon as 50-100 rounds. It has been surmised Glock has "cut corners" again with barrel steel.
But, Mr. Graham is looking into this, and will make no more untill the cause is identified. Since I posted this recommendation earlier, I felt it incumbent upon me to relay the latest info.
I STILL love mine, tho.
Heavy Metal
05-09-12, 19:20
The Gen 4 Glocks have a bit different geometry to the slide lock assembly than the older glocks.
EzGoingKev
05-12-12, 21:10
It's easy to overlook how ammo-dependent Glock accuracy can be. Some practice-grade ammo is very good and some is not, and you won't know what they are until you test a bunch of it.
That's definitely a valid point, I used to have a bunch or Hornady TAP 124gr, and out of the G19 I carry you could point it right at the ground and miss the Earth. GI 9mm or Gold Dots and it's very respectable.
Are match grade barrels such as a Bar-Sto less sensitive to what brand/type/weight of ammo you are using?
The Gen 4 Glocks have a bit different geometry to the slide lock assembly than the older glocks.
Does anyone know if this was changed to clear the Gen 4's recoil spring setup or to improve accuracy? From what I have read the Gen 4's are supposed to have improved accuracy over the earlier generations.
I can tell you that the cut rifling in the Bar-Sto is less sensitive to bullet type, particularly plated or lead bullets. All barrels will tend to favor some projectiles over others to a certain extent.
I have both Bar Sto and Jarvis barrels for a G23, including one in 357Sig. All are drop-in and NOT fitted. Accuracy is excellent but since I only shoot free hand, it's difficult to say it's an improvement over OEM. Maybe a slight improvement with a slightly decreased reliabilty. I will sometimes get a ftf jam using them while the OEM has never jammed in my memory. Due to the excellent quality of the OEM Glock barrels, I do not consider them worth while unless ur original barrel is shot out, you have a superb trigger pull worthy of a target gun and do a lot of target shooting. I sent a Lon Wolf conversion barrel back due to poor accuracy.
EzGoingKev
05-22-12, 10:04
All barrels will tend to favor some projectiles over others to a certain extent.
I figure the biggest factor in this would the bullet dimensions but I also wonder about how much barrel harmonics figures in on a pistol.
I figure the biggest factor in this would the bullet dimensions but I also wonder about how much barrel harmonics figures in on a pistol.
Bullet fit is critical. Cast bullet shooters have done a ton of research on this, and have learned to control bullet diameter to within .0005" with custom lubrisizer dies.
I have no idea about harmonics. A pistol barrel is very short and stiff compared to a rifle barrel, but you also have the barrel's interaction with the slide to contend with. That equation must have dozens of variables.
Okie John
Bullet fit is critical. Cast bullet shooters have done a ton of research on this, and have learned to control bullet diameter to within .0005" with custom lubrisizer dies.
I have no idea about harmonics. A pistol barrel is very short and stiff compared to a rifle barrel, but you also have the barrel's interaction with the slide to contend with. That equation must have dozens of variables.
Okie John
This. next would be projectile hardness, particularly in lead and plated bullets. Too hard and they don't engage the rifling well. Too soft and the leading will be bad. I've seen plated bullets do worse than good hard cast bullets. The best seem to be JHP's with a well defined bullet heel, good concentricity and even jacket thickness.
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